Isn't the keyboard the problem?

[Bodibo]

I've tried all sorts of mechanical, conventional and ergonomic keyboards and mice, plus many ergonomic chairs, desks, and monitor stands, and I've come to the conclusion that the keyboard itself is the root cause of all my (our?) ergonomic woes. Because of the keyboard we need a desk to put it on. Because we now have a desk we need a chair to sit on (unless you are using a standing desk, but then you are still tied to the desk). Then we need our monitor to be at the perfect height.

No keyboard is perfect for everyone because we all have different hand sizes and typing styles. There are always new keyboards being invented to try and fix the ergonomic problem and there are always more forum threads complaining about keyboard related injuries/strains and, again, more threads in search of the perfect ergonomic setup.

If we got rid of the keyboard, or replaced it with a better solution, then we could rid of the desk, chair and monitor stands (and the mouse). If we had portable input devices I could imagine having multiple screens projected on the walls of my office and walking around an interacting with them. I could also imagine using Google Glass, AR or VR as more private screens for me to work on and I could sit or stand as I pleased.

I would like to hear anyone else's thoughts on the matter.

Thanks.

[algernon]

My solution - not fully executed yet, though - to this problem is to have multiple monitors, keyboards and trackballs in my working room at home. The primary place I'd work at is a standing desk, with keyboard, trackball, monitor perfectly set up for this purpose. Beside these, there is another monitor, another keyboard, and another trackball, at a lower level, set up for when I'm sitting. The screen is mirrored on both.

I can walk around if I want to, because I have screens on the side too - though not input devices. I'm ok with inputting in two possible locations. But it is useful to be able to turn around, stare out the window, then look aside, and see my screen.

There is also the TV in the living room, when I go out and explain stuff to my wife (rubber duck programming is awesome). There, I use a laser pointer to point at specific parts of the screen. If I wanted to, I could have a small device, like the raspberry pi in that room, with other input devices attached, if I'd need to do anything there. The raspberry would just proxy the input events to my main computer over the LAN (there are N number of solutions on how this can be easily done).

I tried experimenting with other ways of working with a computer, such as speech recognition, but found that to be lacking at this time. Takes far too much time to set up, and the reliability is low. I'm also playing with Stenography, where I press chords to input text, instead of typing it out by the letter: this drastically reduces hand movement, and increases your speed, but the learning curve is steep, and takes a looong time. And it still requires a keyboard. Or a piano. A piano may even be better, dunno, didn't try that yet.

[Bodibo]

My solution - not fully executed yet, though - to this problem is to have multiple monitors, keyboards and trackballs in my working room at home. The primary place I'd work at is a standing desk, with keyboard, trackball, monitor perfectly set up for this purpose. Beside these, there is another monitor, another keyboard, and another trackball, at a lower level, set up for when I'm sitting. The screen is mirrored on both.

I can walk around if I want to, because I have screens on the side too - though not input devices. I'm ok with inputting in two possible locations. But it is useful to be able to turn around, stare out the window, then look aside, and see my screen.

There is also the TV in the living room, when I go out and explain stuff to my wife (rubber duck programming is awesome). There, I use a laser pointer to point at specific parts of the screen. If I wanted to, I could have a small device, like the raspberry pi in that room, with other input devices attached, if I'd need to do anything there. The raspberry would just proxy the input events to my main computer over the LAN (there are N number of solutions on how this can be easily done).

I tried experimenting with other ways of working with a computer, such as speech recognition, but found that to be lacking at this time. Takes far too much time to set up, and the reliability is low. I'm also playing with Stenography, where I press chords to input text, instead of typing it out by the letter: this drastically reduces hand movement, and increases your speed, but the learning curve is steep, and takes a looong time. And it still requires a keyboard. Or a piano. A piano may even be better, dunno, didn't try that yet.

That sounds like a very thorough solution for the tech we have today, but I know I definitely wouldn't have the patience or skill to set something like that up. I've thought about speech recognition, but it is too flaky and would only work in isolation. Yeah, I've thought about a stenograph, but swapping one keyboard for another doesn't really set me free... and I want to be free, damn it, free! 

[algernon]

Yeah, I've thought about a stenograph, but swapping one keyboard for another doesn't really set me free... and I want to be free, damn it, free! 

The beauty of Steno is that you can grab a small keyboard, hand it onto your belt, and type anywhere within bluetooth range

But this would be a bit... nerdy, and you'd still use a keyboard...

[xtrafrood]

Well, one can install Ubuntu over Android, and/or (gasp!) use a Windows phone to do all of their important computations. Technically speaking the keypad on our phones are the most ergonomic keyboards on the planet--we only have to use our thumbs. When we type on a phone keypad our wrists are in a much better position for future non-keyboard wrist related activities. I think that's one of the main reasons as to why there are more phone users than computer users.

Solution! Buy an Octacore ARM based phablet. If you really need a number cruncher skip past the Nvidia Shield, and make a tablet out of the Nvidia Jetson TX1 (256 cuda cores baby!)

[davkol]

You haven't heard of texting thumbs, have you?

[Bodibo]

Well, one can install Ubuntu over Android, and/or (gasp!) use a Windows phone to do all of their important computations. Technically speaking the keypad on our phones are the most ergonomic keyboards on the planet--we only have to use our thumbs. When we type on a phone keypad our wrists are in a much better position for future non-keyboard wrist related activities. I think that's one of the main reasons as to why there are more phone users than computer users.

Solution! Buy an Octacore ARM based phablet. If you really need a number cruncher skip past the Nvidia Shield, and make a tablet out of the Nvidia Jetson TX1 (256 cuda cores baby!)

You haven't heard of texting thumbs, have you?

I was going to reply with something similar, especially when you see threads about over worked thumbs (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83157.0)

[xtrafrood]

Well, one can install Ubuntu over Android, and/or (gasp!) use a Windows phone to do all of their important computations. Technically speaking the keypad on our phones are the most ergonomic keyboards on the planet--we only have to use our thumbs. When we type on a phone keypad our wrists are in a much better position for future non-keyboard wrist related activities. I think that's one of the main reasons as to why there are more phone users than computer users.

Solution! Buy an Octacore ARM based phablet. If you really need a number cruncher skip past the Nvidia Shield, and make a tablet out of the Nvidia Jetson TX1 (256 cuda cores baby!)

You haven't heard of texting thumbs, have you?

I was going to reply with something similar, especially when you see threads about over worked thumbs (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83157.0)

Texting thumbs? Is that anything like flipped spacebars? ) I digress

[AMongoose]

Because of the keyboard we need a desk to put it on.

But people have used desks way before keyboards being a thing...

Keyboards brought several problems including a more stationary arm position and the need to not look at your hands and maintain that posture for long sessions.
Unfortunately the only solution that I am aware for both problems is to get up and take a break

[tp4tissue]

Hahahahahha...



The keyboard is a problem in the sense that perfect ergonomics might not be achievable..


But, it's not a problem when we take in account  actual Productive output, because the actual amount of useful characters a human can generate during any INPUT task, is limited to around 30wpm..

[digi]

[rtpguy]

Show Image

How well do you think that works with:
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

int main(int argc, const char *argv[])
{
  printf("Hello %s, can you convert me to code?", "Google");
  return EXIT_SUCCESS;
}

 ^-^

[Darkshado]

This fellow has a pretty elaborate system:

[xtrafrood]

Show Image

huehuehue

[algernon]

Show Image

How well do you think that works with:
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

int main(int argc, const char *argv[])
{
  printf("Hello %s, can you convert me to code?", "Google");
  return EXIT_SUCCESS;
}

 ^-^

It works reasonably well - as in, usable, if you spend enough time to set your environment up to work in such a system. I used to use voice recognition a few years ago, when I was told not to use my hands to type, until they heal, and while the speed was slow, and it was annoying, I could get stuff done I wouldn't have been able to otherwise. So, surprisingly, it can work. But takes a lot of effort, and the comfort won't be nearly as good as with a good keyboard.

[Bodibo]

This fellow has a pretty elaborate system:

Yeah, I've seen this before, but I'm not convinced. I imagine it takes ages to teach the computer what your beatboxing means and I bet it's a pain to add new stuff to it. This, and speech recognition in general, could never work in an open office. And no doubt there will eventually be complaints about saw throats!

[algernon]

This fellow has a pretty elaborate system:

Yeah, I've seen this before, but I'm not convinced. I imagine it takes ages to teach the computer what your beatboxing means and I bet it's a pain to add new stuff to it. This, and speech recognition in general, could never work in an open office. And no doubt there will eventually be complaints about saw throats!

It's not that bad. It took me about a week to set up the basics, and once you're there, adding new stuff is the easy part. Remembering all your **** is the harder one. But yeah, not an option in an open office

[xtrafrood]

This fellow has a pretty elaborate system:

Yeah, I've seen this before, but I'm not convinced. I imagine it takes ages to teach the computer what your beatboxing means and I bet it's a pain to add new stuff to it. This, and speech recognition in general, could never work in an open office. And no doubt there will eventually be complaints about saw throats!

It's not that bad. It took me about a week to set up the basics, and once you're there, adding new stuff is the easy part. Remembering all your **** is the harder one. But yeah, not an option in an open office

Looks like a pretty entertaining way to get some work done

[rtpguy]

Show Image

How well do you think that works with:
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

int main(int argc, const char *argv[])
{
  printf("Hello %s, can you convert me to code?", "Google");
  return EXIT_SUCCESS;
}

 ^-^

It works reasonably well - as in, usable, if you spend enough time to set your environment up to work in such a system. I used to use voice recognition a few years ago, when I was told not to use my hands to type, until they heal, and while the speed was slow, and it was annoying, I could get stuff done I wouldn't have been able to otherwise. So, surprisingly, it can work. But takes a lot of effort, and the comfort won't be nearly as good as with a good keyboard.

Interesting - I've set up IBM's speech to text (I want to say Dragon Dictation but that can't be right...?) forever ago for a customer when I was working my way through school, and worked 'somewhat OK' for general usage back then.  Nowadays, I'm convinced Siri is conscious but is a ***** and intentionally gets nearly everything wrong, along with IVR systems for call centers, so didn't think it would be remotely usable for coding and specialty usage.

I'm guessing you do 'verbal shortcuts' e.g. 'standard library' maps to #include <stdlib.h> and similar, or ??

[algernon]

I'm guessing you do 'verbal shortcuts' e.g. 'standard library' maps to #include <stdlib.h> and similar, or ??

Yes. See the video too, the guy did something similar (my setup was a lot more hackish, and less permanent, as I only needed it for a month or two). Most of my shortcuts were on the editor side, though - I just said "inc stand lib", the voice recognition software typed it in as-is, and my editor expanded the abbreviation. There were some other shortcuts, to make a distinction between "down" (the word), and "dn" (cursor down), but most of the text abbrevs were in the editor, not the voice recognition software. Simply because the editor was easier to program, is smarter, and more flexible.

[Bodibo]

Does anyone know of any alternative keyboards developed with Myo (https://www.myo.com/), Leap (https://www.leapmotion.com/) or EMG (electromyography)?