Author Topic: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFO-9000 vs DIY handwiring?  (Read 6114 times)

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Offline nightsaberx8x

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Hello everybody, I'm new here  :)

Introduction:

So my first MK was the Varmilo VB87M (bluetooth Version) with Gateron clears. Although I had a really good exprience with it when using
 it for gaming, the connection issues and the reliability of the switches was atrocious in my exprience. The second one I bought that I'm currently using is the GMMK with mostly Navy switches and a cluster of MX red switches. However, now that I had it for over 4 months and after typing over 100 pages of documents, my wrists could really use a more ergonomic solution. Hence why I would like a split keyboard. The reason why I want an Ortolinear one is out of curiousity and I do feel that I will have a better typing exprience with it. I know that there are smaller layouts than the BFO 9000 but I'm not ready yet to give up the function or any if the other keys. As for the numpad, I think a separate one or building one of my own is a better option.

Main subject
All that being said, I have many questions about the BFO 9000. However, I have a very important disclaimer: I have 0 exprience with electronics. I know how to solder but I don't even know how to read schematics :(   but here are my questions :

Q1: Will I be able to change the layout using the Arduino Pro Micros (is it fully programmable)? I'm asking cause I don't like the location of some keys.

Q2: Is the PCB compatible with Hot Swap Sockets or what is known as holtites?

Q3: As I understand that the PCB have rows and columns that can be seperated to make it more flexible in terms of customization. And also, I have read some tips on how to remove a single cell from a Keebio's reddit post. But I'm curious, is there is any way that I can re-use that removed column\row and reconnect\rewire it to the PCB. The reason I'm asking this is becuase I want both the PCBs to have 6 rows and 8 colums of 1u keys + a ninth column of 1.5u/1.75u keys

Q4: if the previous situation is possible, can I also separate the four individual cells on the both PCB and re-use them as thumb keys similar to an ergodox keyboard?


If at least 2/4 of the previous questions\plans I had for BO 9000 are impossible, I'll go DIY handwiring MK. Either way, what will a sandwich case cost me (non of the premium stuff please)?

Finally, I apologize if I have any grammar mistakes. English is my second language :D
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 August 2018, 11:07:02 by nightsaberx8x »

Offline nightsaberx8x

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Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFG-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 03 August 2018, 09:32:36 »
Can someone please help? Am I phrasing my questions in a wrong way?

Offline hanya

  • Posts: 132
  • Location: Japan
Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFG-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 03 August 2018, 09:39:04 »
Quote
Keebio BFG-9000
Do you mean BFO-9000?
PFU HHKB JP, Sanwa MA-TB38 trackball

Offline Tactile

  • Posts: 1431
  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFG-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 03 August 2018, 09:59:19 »
As to the programming, yes. Using QMK you can move key locations, add layers, etc.
REΛLFORCE

Offline nightsaberx8x

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Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFG-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 03 August 2018, 11:05:49 »
Quote
Keebio BFG-9000
Do you mean BFO-9000?

 yes, I'll correct it the thread. thanks for pointing that out
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 August 2018, 11:10:08 by nightsaberx8x »

Offline nightsaberx8x

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Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFG-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 03 August 2018, 11:09:23 »
As to the programming, yes. Using QMK you can move key locations, add layers, etc.

Thanks for answering. there are guides for using QMK, right?

Offline ProtonDecay

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Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFO-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 03 August 2018, 14:51:33 »
I'm typing this from a BFO9000 in 6x18 ( https://imgur.com/a/1PJP3Jo ) and honestly don't use MOST of the extra keys because it's more convenient to access layers, which I mostly replicated from my planck setup ( GitHub link).

Just get something off the shelf and runs QMK, like the Planck, insert your own switches, and learn the firmware without having to modify too much off the bat. You think you need aaalllll those keys now, but give a commonly accepted solution or two a shot first. That said, my next daily driver will be a Helix (waiting for a shipment of switches), but I do already have a set of plates for a split BFO9000 which I'm also going to build before I sell one of my 9000's.


To your other questions:
- Handwiring and PCB will generally require the same learning in terms of editing and compiling the firmware, flashing the pro micro, tools, etc.
- PCB is certainly less trouble than a hand-wire.
- You can reuse the rows and columns, but that will require some surgery (e.g. more than basic soldering, which I wouldn't commit to if you've never done that before).
- Don't waste time trying and money to make things hot-swappable, but do consider buying a hot-swappable board to try out switches (like the new revision of the Planck).




« Last Edit: Fri, 03 August 2018, 14:58:41 by ProtonDecay »

Offline ErgoMacros

  • Posts: 313
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFO-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 03 August 2018, 20:08:49 »
Quote
Handwiring and PCB will generally require the same learning in terms of editing and compiling the firmware, flashing the pro micro, tools, etc.

I would say the programming for an existing, common, PCB would be a slightly easier route because the
rows and columns of the matrix don't need to be figured out for your "special" keyboard. But yes, not
all that different.

Agree, getting something already designed and built (or buildable) is a better entrance into Mech Keyboards.
Play with the programming, key placement first. Then if you keep running into something it won't do move on
to something more exotic, or even your own creation.

But just so you know, there are 'guys' here who with no experience to speak of who have gone straight to
building and hand-wiring their first keyboard. So it is doable. Here's one guy's story:
     https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96772.msg2643206#msg2643206
(most of it is hidden under the "MORE" button under the photo.)

I tend to be a "big keyboard" person, been watching the GH-122 group buy for a long time. I can get
something like 149 keys with that design - yum. BUT, lately I've become inspired by the THO50:
     https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94675.0;topicseen
This is a cool board with some interesting thoughts on how to work with layers. I'm thinking of applying
those concepts to a new DZ60 that I would assemble from parts.

Good luck! and welcome!
Today's quote: '...“but then the customer successfully broke that.”

Offline nightsaberx8x

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Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFO-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 04 August 2018, 11:51:37 »
I'm typing this from a BFO9000 in 6x18 ( https://imgur.com/a/1PJP3Jo ) and honestly don't use MOST of the extra keys because it's more convenient to access layers, which I mostly replicated from my planck setup ( GitHub link).
It looks really cool.

Just get something off the shelf and runs QMK, like the Planck, insert your own switches, and learn the firmware without having to modify too much off the bat. You think you need aaalllll those keys now, but give a commonly accepted solution or two a shot first. That said, my next daily driver will be a Helix (waiting for a shipment of switches), but I do already have a set of plates for a split BFO9000 which I'm also going to build before I sell one of my 9000's.


are they split plates? where can Ifind some please?



To your other questions:
- Handwiring and PCB will generally require the same learning in terms of editing and compiling the firmware, flashing the pro micro, tools, etc.
- PCB is certainly less trouble than a hand-wire.

Well, I guees buying the PCB is a better option after all


- You can reuse the rows and columns, but that will require some surgery (e.g. more than basic soldering, which I wouldn't commit to if you've never done that before).

I think I'l be able to commit to it but I don't know how to start; like what do I need to google to see a smiliar idea or what you call "surgery"?

- Don't waste time trying and money to make things hot-swappable, but do consider buying a hot-swappable board to try out switches (like the new revision of the Planck).

It's not about trying out switches, it's about constantly trying to find the pefect combo of switches.

Offline nightsaberx8x

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  • Posts: 9
Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFO-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 04 August 2018, 11:59:54 »
Quote
Handwiring and PCB will generally require the same learning in terms of editing and compiling the firmware, flashing the pro micro, tools, etc.

I would say the programming for an existing, common, PCB would be a slightly easier route because the
rows and columns of the matrix don't need to be figured out for your "special" keyboard. But yes, not
all that different.

Agree, getting something already designed and built (or buildable) is a better entrance into Mech Keyboards.
Play with the programming, key placement first. Then if you keep running into something it won't do move on
to something more exotic, or even your own creation.

Well, I saw a firmware for the BFO 9000, I'm pretty sure I can grab that and modify it (once I learn the basics at least).


But just so you know, there are 'guys' here who with no experience to speak of who have gone straight to
building and hand-wiring their first keyboard. So it is doable. Here's one guy's story:
     https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96772.msg2643206#msg2643206
(most of it is hidden under the "MORE" button under the photo.)

I tend to be a "big keyboard" person, been watching the GH-122 group buy for a long time. I can get
something like 149 keys with that design - yum. BUT, lately I've become inspired by the THO50:
     https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94675.0;topicseen
This is a cool board with some interesting thoughts on how to work with layers. I'm thinking of applying
those concepts to a new DZ60 that I would assemble from parts.

Good luck! and welcome!

Thanks for sharing the stories :D
I actually wanted to get on the GH-122 group buy but I knew my limit. I knew I won't use all those keys.

Offline ErgoMacros

  • Posts: 313
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFO-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 04 August 2018, 13:59:31 »
I was thinking there were more full-size split ortho keyboards, but offhand I'm only remembering:

Maybe an ErgoDox + a macro pad would be a workable solution?
Today's quote: '...“but then the customer successfully broke that.”

Offline nightsaberx8x

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  • Posts: 9
Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFO-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 04 August 2018, 16:15:43 »
I was thinking there were more full-size split ortho keyboards, but offhand I'm only remembering:

Maybe an ErgoDox + a macro pad would be a workable solution?

Thank you for responding. Unfortunately, all the keyboards you mentioned are way out of my budget. My budget is around 50-100$; 120$ is like really crazy for me, but it's double. Keep in mind is that I already have switches and keycaps. Also that I would like to include a case in that 120$ budget. Therefore, the BFO 9000 seems like a really good deal to m. The kit is 20$ that includes the following:

2 BFO-9000 PCBs
2 Push buttons for reset
2 TRRS jacks
108 1N4148 diodes (if you want fewer diodes, please request this in your order notes so we don't waste diodes)

+ 2 controller from keebio for 15.9$.

That leaves me with 64-84$ for the case. I really like the cases from Keebio. They look really simple and cost effective imo . the most expensive one is 25$ for a levinson keyboard. I wouldn't expect a case for the BFO 9000 to go over 30$ assuming I won't try to make thumb keys cause that will force me to get a custom case.

Offline nightsaberx8x

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  • Posts: 9
Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFG-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 04 August 2018, 16:24:16 »
As to the programming, yes. Using QMK you can move key locations, add layers, etc.

Thank you for responding. Well, in that case that'll will save the trouble of getting a separate numpad or even making thumb key :D

Offline ErgoMacros

  • Posts: 313
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFO-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 06 August 2018, 12:36:57 »
Another thought. Just saw this pop-up, might just barely be in budget:
     https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96902.0;topicseen
     https://kprepublic.com/search?type=product&q=sp50

SP50.
  Split, ortholiniar, 60 keys total.
  Programable, but looks like not QMK. Their own custom instead.
  Does not include switches or keycaps, but you have those.

 $47 PCB, need to solder switches and LEDs (if desired)
 $70 Case
-----
$117 total (free shipping, no sales tax)
Today's quote: '...“but then the customer successfully broke that.”

Offline nightsaberx8x

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  • Posts: 9
Re: Fullsize Ortolinear split keyboard: Keebio BFO-9000 vs DIY handwiring?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 09 August 2018, 22:41:45 »
Another thought. Just saw this pop-up, might just barely be in budget:
     https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96902.0;topicseen
     https://kprepublic.com/search?type=product&q=sp50

SP50.
  Split, ortholiniar, 60 keys total.
  Programable, but looks like not QMK. Their own custom instead.
  Does not include switches or keycaps, but you have those.

 $47 PCB, need to solder switches and LEDs (if desired)
 $70 Case
-----
$117 total (free shipping, no sales tax)

Thanks a lot for responding. I'll consider it. But , I think that is a bit too small for me.