Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 05 January 2018, 22:13:12
My sliders are once again compatible with clicky switches and in fact work with stabs. I will make a video maybe tomorrow going over what was found out. As well they work with SKCM Brown beautifully.
As well, I was asked a question over on deskthority about why an orange top housing wouldn't fit on a brown switch. Below is my response:
I figured out the reason why it wouldn't close, if you look inside of the top housing there are rectangular recesses on the back of the top side. On an SKCM Brown the housing is mirrored, meaning they are identical on both the switchplate side and tactile leaf side. This is not the case for all other SKCM switches. The SKCM Orange, and every other SKCM variants, matches my pictures where one side has two bars dividing that recess on one side only. The point of those bars is so the tactile/click leaf is held in place at the top and bottom better. These bars prevent the browns tactile leaf from fitting inside any other top housing.
Now because of this I have to make a modification to the top housing I designed in order to accommodate both, which will be pretty easy with an idea I have. I can't do anything today as I have to build a new computer in order to do CAD again, as the last one decided it didn't want to live anymore...So probably saturday or late tomorrow I can make the change.
We are rounding the corner of the design and testing phase and the GB will be opening within the next 2 weeks, all I have left to do is make some final adjustments to the slider and top housing and I can start taking orders. Please spread the new info. that they work on clicky switches so we can make sure to get the quantity of 11,000 needed for me to move forward with the production of both pieces.
Update:
Newest video going over the current prototype.
Product shot(s):
[attachimg=2]
For now this is all I will be sharing as the prototypes don't really resemble the final product and don't show detail very well. Product color is uncertain as I need to see what the manufacturers capabilities are.
Product Features:
- Cherry MX mount
- Compatibility with Linear, and tactile switches (soon to be compatible with clicky)
Product Description:
This is an Alps slider with a cherry stem, the slider is the colored part that keycaps mount into. It is a replacement alps slider, that allows you to use cherry keycaps, you open the alps switch up, remove the original slider, pop this one in, replace the top housing with either a modified top housing or the one I will be producing, and voila.
Note: Top housing will need to be slightly filed down to make sure the keycap doesn't catch when pressing the key. Only needs to be filed a tiny amount as the opening is almost the exact size of most cherry keycap stems.
Planned pricing and MOQ:
At the moment I am getting quotes for around 5,000-10,000, not sure how many people are wanting to jump in on this and will most likely be doing a couple rounds of ordering depending on the volume of interest.
Quantaties will be as follows:
- 50 minimum
- 70 for 60% and similar sizes
- 95 for TKL
- 115 for fullsize
- 130 for big ass boards that you may have or for those who like extra
Currently planning on pricing of $0.50 - $0.80 for each slider, depending on what the quotes are(will update once I figure out which manufacturer I will be using). Price may be out of that range, so be prepared as that is just an initial estimate/goal.
Interest Form:
Will keep the form open for about 2 weeks or so and see how much interest I get, I will be the only person running this and if the interest is higher than I expected I may close it sooner so I don't get too many people on the first run. Once I get pricing and the form is closed the GB will open and ordering will commence.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeQlCswtGqZ-18CDlnNXohOpKMbDD3zNBGfpGcEBdBAKoH1zA/viewform?usp=sf_link
Alps top housing option:
Chyros wanted to know if I had a solution to the fact that cherry stems do barely fit inside the housing opening. He was not the first person to ask this and my answer was originally, and it can be seen at the top of this post, that you will have to file the housing slightly to fit the stem reliably. Now I know that not everyone will be willing to do so but that is the easiest most cost effective solution out there. In order to see if people would like me to produce a top housing that also allows clearance, I have made the below form to do so. Do note that this will ONLY WORK FOR ALPS, not matias switches as they are entirely different and those will have to be filed which isn't that bad seeing as they are $0.25 switches, and you can replace them, where as alps can't be replaced sadly. So that is why some of the questions make sure you acknowledge that fact.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSff4l1Q_vhLj5R7Jnf7j3KQS7VplZ0EWz9NkFtr6Db-PBfYUA/viewform?usp=sf_link
Update:
Currently we are at 4980 sliders, we are almost at the minimum for this to be a GB, I want to get closer to 7,000 just in case some people change their minds before ordering so we don't drop below the 5000 MOQ. Plus the more people who get involved the price will drop significantly, ex. 10,000 is half the price of the moq for just tooling, manufacturing cost should also drop slightly and that means we can save a crap ton of money with more people. I don't really want to make much money on this I just want to make a great product that people will love for a very long time.
Keep the momentum up people!!! The response is awesome and way more than I expected in just 2 days.
Update 2:
We have now hit 5555 sliders, this is crazy how much people want this product, Today alone we have had almost 2000 sliders added to the list. Hopefully pricing quotes come tomorrow so I can figure out which manufacturer is the best fit and can start the GB by midweek or so.
Seriously thank you to all the people who have showed interest, this is more than I could have ever imagined and I can't wait to see what projects these go into.
Update 3:
We have now hit 7870 sliders, really happy to see the progress of this over the past few days. Up until now the quotes have been prohibitively high and made me worried that we would need to double that interest. Well I just received my 3rd quote and their pricing is way more reasonable for what we are doing. The last 2 quotes were using tools that would last 50,000 parts(shot) guaranteed and because of that the tooling was almost $5000 which sucks for almost any order quantity below 15,000.
But the new quote came in and I can reasonably sell them at $0.45 per slider as the tooling is only able to do 10,000 parts(shot) guaranteed. Which means I will either have to cut the order off at 10,000 or do it in waves, where the first 10,000 are made and shipped and new tooling is made once the next 10,000 are ordered. I can avoid this round system by using the 50,000 shot tooling but I am waiting on a re-estimate on the quote as I changed the surface finish that was to be used and will see what the new cost is.
Post by: alisonica on Fri, 05 January 2018, 22:30:58
The final solution for alps.
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 05 January 2018, 22:40:00
Post by: Lepidus on Fri, 05 January 2018, 22:44:19
And if someone wants to share this on Deskthority or reddit I would appreciate it as I don't have an account on either.
Hmm, so you are not this guy? https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7b82w5/alps_to_mx_adapter_is_working/
I liked the way his design managed to include space to put those little rubber thingies matias/cream alps use to damp noise.
Anyway, do you think an alps + your slider would be able to fit cherry profile keycaps? I'm kinda worried if they wouldn't hit the housing before bottoming out.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 05 January 2018, 22:50:35
Post by: _haru on Fri, 05 January 2018, 22:54:47
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 05 January 2018, 23:09:48
And if someone wants to share this on Deskthority or reddit I would appreciate it as I don't have an account on either.
Hmm, so you are not this guy? https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7b82w5/alps_to_mx_adapter_is_working/
I liked the way his design managed to include space to put those little rubber thingies matias/cream alps use to damp noise.
Anyway, do you think an alps + your slider would be able to fit cherry profile keycaps? I'm kinda worried if they wouldn't hit the housing before bottoming out.
No I am not the same person, I did some research before starting this project and never saw that post for some reason. There are a few reasons I don't have the ability to use the dampers atm, 1)The tooling costs more because you need inserts to make those cavities, 2) I prefer none damped switches and just didn't bother to model it which leads to 3) Don't have the money to put into getting those prototyped right now, as my first prototypes were made of a material that was recommended to me because it was similar to POM for testing purposes but it sucks and I can't even use them for actual typing as the surface is rubbery and sticks on the tactile leaf, which destroys keyfeel...so I don't want to deal with that for now and have more sliders that I can't use, maybe in a later run I will make that an option. And his design is not possible to injection mold, I had something similar and was told it was not possible by a few manufacturers due to the extra features around the stem that carried over from the alps stem. So I reviewed the design and realized that those don't really help with anything and since I made the slider fit better in the alps housing, it wouldn't be needed for stabilizing the switch.
As for the keycaps, I have checked clearance with 1.6mm DCS profile keycaps and they clear the housing, don't have any GMK keycaps to test with but the DCS R3 from SP clears so I believe GMK should clear as well.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 05 January 2018, 23:17:31
Sounds promising. Have you for tested with really thick PBT caps? Also, is the price high because of a low quantity manufacturing run? I mean these are going to cost as much as entire switches. Just to put a number on it, I'd hope more for $.25-.30 each.
I don't have super thick PBT caps on hand, have tested with 1.6mm caps that I think are DCS (can't remember where I got them) and they do clear with the SP DCS R3, but that was a thinner cap...so no gurantees on GMK or similar hard to fit profiles.
As for the cost, the tooling is what will cost quite a bit. if the tooling was say $1500 (the starting cost for some manufacturers) at a quantity of 5000 that is $.30 per switch and then you have to factor in actual production cost on top of that, plus the tiny profit I make just so I don't go crazy counting out the 5000+ sliders...I would love for the sliders to be $.30 each but at the moment I am not sure if that is going to be possible unless we get 10,000+ sliders ordered.
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 05 January 2018, 23:40:57
And if someone wants to share this on Deskthority or reddit I would appreciate it as I don't have an account on either.
Hmm, so you are not this guy? https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7b82w5/alps_to_mx_adapter_is_working/
I liked the way his design managed to include space to put those little rubber thingies matias/cream alps use to damp noise.
Anyway, do you think an alps + your slider would be able to fit cherry profile keycaps? I'm kinda worried if they wouldn't hit the housing before bottoming out.
No I am not the same person, I did some research before starting this project and never saw that post for some reason. There are a few reasons I don't have the ability to use the dampers atm, 1)The tooling costs more because you need inserts to make those cavities, 2) I prefer none damped switches and just didn't bother to model it which leads to 3) Don't have the money to put into getting those prototyped right now, as my first prototypes were made of a material that was recommended to me because it was similar to POM for testing purposes but it sucks and I can't even use them for actual typing as the surface is rubbery and sticks on the tactile leaf, which destroys keyfeel...so I don't want to deal with that for now and have more sliders that I can't use, maybe in a later run I will make that an option. And his design is not possible to injection mold, I had something similar and was told it was not possible by a few manufacturers due to the extra features around the stem that carried over from the alps stem. So I reviewed the design and realized that those don't really help with anything and since I made the slider fit better in the alps housing, it wouldn't be needed for stabilizing the switch.
As for the keycaps, I have checked clearance with 1.6mm DCS profile keycaps and they clear the housing, don't have any GMK keycaps to test with but the DCS R3 from SP clears so I believe GMK should clear as well.
this is extraordinary stuff if it works.
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 05 January 2018, 23:49:37
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 06 January 2018, 00:03:32
I just have to wonder how much, if at all, the stem affects the feel and sound of alps switches. No one is quite sure precisely how the alps switches are made different to each other in order to produce the feel and sounds that they do.
I wish I knew how they would change the sound of the switches, I am curious if there is a significant difference or nothing at all. But as far as feel simple things like the surface finish on the tooling can affect the feel drastically. The prototypes I have are super smooth but have a slightly rougher finish than a alps slider and and lower surface hardness and because of that I can feel the tactile/clicky leaf catching on the slider and see it(using a matias housing to see how well it fits up and actuates, as well as genuine alps switches) move up and down inside.
Also depending on the formulation of the plastic used being even slightly changed can change surface hardness and surface finish of the part(even if the tool is ultra smooth the part may not be able to harden in that fine of a structure to transfer the finish quality). I plan on using POM Homopolymer(Delrin) or if they can't use that just POM which won't be as nice but shouldn't be too much different in the final product. Since most sliders are made of some formulation of POM, I hope it won't change the beauty of the alps switch.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 06 January 2018, 01:36:22
Post by: Peiweisgreat on Sat, 06 January 2018, 01:49:01
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 06 January 2018, 02:02:06
Post by: schmoktopus on Sat, 06 January 2018, 10:56:58
Post by: derzemel on Sat, 06 January 2018, 11:06:14
Excuse my ignorance, but are Alps switches really that unique that you cannot use MX-Switches instead? I have never tried Alps though. When i want to build an Alps board i want to make sure to have the corresponding Alps stems in there to keep it original.Personally, I think linear and tactile alps have a way better sound than cherry. Blue alps depend very much on the case (IMO when they are in a thick plastic case they sound better than in aluminium)
Tactile alps, especially the old complicated version, have the tactilw bump right at the top (similar to topre) but they also have a mechanical feel to them.
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 06 January 2018, 11:08:56
Excuse my ignorance, but are Alps switches really that unique that you cannot use MX-Switches instead? I have never tried Alps though. When i want to build an Alps board i want to make sure to have the corresponding Alps stems in there to keep it original.
They feel a lot different for tactile and clicky switches due to the tactile/clicky metal leaf rather than a plastic click jacket or a small plastic bump. They generate tactility/clickyness in entirely different ways, which causes different sound and feeling. No cherry switch feels the same as a clicky alps, which is my favorite.
Post by: jrfhoutx on Sat, 06 January 2018, 13:18:13
Very happy to see someone taking this approach to the problem.
Post by: consolation on Sat, 06 January 2018, 16:39:02
Also, I'd include a cut out for the rubber bumpers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: consolation on Sat, 06 January 2018, 16:47:23
Excuse my ignorance, but are Alps switches really that unique that you cannot use MX-Switches instead? I have never tried Alps though. When i want to build an Alps board i want to make sure to have the corresponding Alps stems in there to keep it original.
The best cherry types; gatistotles, zealios, are comparable to average alps like matias or simplified white, but the best alps, the oranges and blues - are just off the scale good.
There are a few downsides, you need to find them in good condition, they are hard to find or expensive to buy, and you get custom caps once a year; if you are lucky.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 06 January 2018, 17:37:05
Many of the older alps sliders were factory lubed, more like dry ptfe style coat then a grease, have you looked into getting a coat applied at manufacturing? It does make a significant difference to smoothness, and seems to be part of the reason why poorly treated Alps loose some of their amazing feel.
Also, I'd include a cut out for the rubber bumpers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The problem with having them prelubed would be that you can't control what happens to the lube in the bags during shipping and sorting. They will be loose and that will cause some to be more lubed than others and some to be underlubed. And I don't think any of the manufacturers have equipment to do so, as Alps had the money to make that equipment, and the cost would be prohibitive for this low of quantity. If I were ordering well over 500,000 then maybe I would be able to do a lube process, but I don't have that kind of capital to invest in this.
As for the bumpers atm I will not be doing a run, maybe next round if I open the option and there is a lot of interest. Just putting the bumpers in would require a new mold that is separate to the current option. And if this round goes well, I may open up the next round in a couple months after this run has been delivered and I have a small break to run another group buy in between for something else.
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 06 January 2018, 18:13:34
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 06 January 2018, 18:17:23
What alps exactly? Is this the ChaALPS that was on reddit?
I don't quite get what you are meaning...These are sliders that will work in both genuine alps as well as matias switches. I have never heard of ChaALPS and even google came up with no result, so not sure what those are.
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 06 January 2018, 18:18:58
What alps exactly? Is this the ChaALPS that was on reddit?
I don't quite get what you are meaning...These are sliders that will work in both genuine alps as well as matias switches. I have never heard of ChaALPS and even google came up with no result, so not sure what those are.
Umm nevermind just thought it was the same guy.
Anyway, never used alps, what would i need to buy over this to get the best/BIGGER tactility?
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 06 January 2018, 18:33:18
What alps exactly? Is this the ChaALPS that was on reddit?
I don't quite get what you are meaning...These are sliders that will work in both genuine alps as well as matias switches. I have never heard of ChaALPS and even google came up with no result, so not sure what those are.
Umm nevermind just thought it was the same guy.
Anyway, never used alps, what would i need to buy over this to get the best/BIGGER tactility?
If you were to get this and matias quiet click switches and slightly bend the tactile leaf open more you get a more pronounced bump and a slightly heavier switch. Which in total should be cheaper than zealios switches.
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 06 January 2018, 18:42:21
What alps exactly? Is this the ChaALPS that was on reddit?
I don't quite get what you are meaning...These are sliders that will work in both genuine alps as well as matias switches. I have never heard of ChaALPS and even google came up with no result, so not sure what those are.
Umm nevermind just thought it was the same guy.
Anyway, never used alps, what would i need to buy over this to get the best/BIGGER tactility?
If you were to get this and matias quiet click switches and slightly bend the tactile leaf open more you get a more pronounced bump and a slightly heavier switch. Which in total should be cheaper than zealios switches.
but this will make the switches not similar between them (i mean bending the leaf), am i wrong?
Also the whole thing will make the switch more tactile than zandas/ergopandas/ergoclears/clears?
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 06 January 2018, 18:49:09
but this will make the switches not similar between them (i mean bending the leaf), am i wrong?
Also the whole thing will make the switch more tactile than zandas/ergopandas/ergoclears/clears?
That is true that each switch would be slightly different. But I in all honesty don't know what tactile switch would be best for you. I am a clicky switch lover and that is what I look at. I have never tried zandas/ergopandas/ergoclears, I have tried clear, brown, tactile grey and gateron brown, but have never been a huge fan. So I am not the right person to ask this to.
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 06 January 2018, 18:53:00
but this will make the switches not similar between them (i mean bending the leaf), am i wrong?
Also the whole thing will make the switch more tactile than zandas/ergopandas/ergoclears/clears?
That is true that each switch would be slightly different. But I in all honesty don't know what tactile switch would be best for you. I am a clicky switch lover and that is what I look at. I have never tried zandas/ergopandas/ergoclears, I have tried clear, brown, tactile grey and gateron brown, but have never been a huge fan. So I am not the right person to ask this to.
Oky. Thanks for the answers!
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sun, 07 January 2018, 10:56:20
Post by: alisonica on Sun, 07 January 2018, 13:44:00
Just an update, in just over a day we are almost at 4000 sliders once I get around 7000 I will open the GB. Keep sharing this and we may be able to start orders this week if interest keeps growing at this rate!! Would be awesome to have these sliders in everyone's hands early next month. The more people we get the cheaper the sliders get, should be getting quotes starting tomorrow so I will know pricing better then.
Hey, you can add a confirmed 480 Stems, recently scored SKCM Neon Greens, <3
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sun, 07 January 2018, 13:47:31
Just an update, in just over a day we are almost at 4000 sliders once I get around 7000 I will open the GB. Keep sharing this and we may be able to start orders this week if interest keeps growing at this rate!! Would be awesome to have these sliders in everyone's hands early next month. The more people we get the cheaper the sliders get, should be getting quotes starting tomorrow so I will know pricing better then.
Hey, you can add a confirmed 480 Stems, recently scored SKCM Neon Greens, <3
Just fill out the form, that way I have you info. and can update you when this goes live, which at this rate won't be far away!!!
Post by: bminhz on Sun, 07 January 2018, 15:10:49
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sun, 07 January 2018, 15:39:30
Post by: azharkh on Sun, 07 January 2018, 16:56:00
Post by: SJHL on Mon, 08 January 2018, 10:35:49
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Mon, 08 January 2018, 11:02:59
Is the slider height the same? Just thinking about the stabilized keys. Would definitely love to see a video with a functioning prototype! I have some thick cherry caps from each row if you wanted to test them :thumb:
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 08 January 2018, 11:45:56
This is the type of stuff I love to see, nice work!<3
Is the slider height the same? Just thinking about the stabilized keys. Would definitely love to see a video with a functioning prototype! I have some thick cherry caps from each row if you wanted to test them :thumb:
The sliders are the exact same height as a matias slider, the alps sliders are a tad taller inside the switch housing, but it isn't a necessary part for them to work and I have tested it on my alps board and it works perfectly. I may upload a short clip of them sometime today. I may take you up on the keycap offer...
Quick update: Hit 6300 sliders!!! Getting closer to a GB. Got the first quote in today and...won't be using them as I would have to sell them at $1.10 each which is way too much for these. Hopefully the tooling cost from the others is was lower than their $4500...
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 08 January 2018, 12:38:42
This is the type of stuff I love to see, nice work!<3
Is the slider height the same? Just thinking about the stabilized keys. Would definitely love to see a video with a functioning prototype! I have some thick cherry caps from each row if you wanted to test them :thumb:
The sliders are the exact same height as a matias slider, the alps sliders are a tad taller inside the switch housing, but it isn't a necessary part for them to work and I have tested it on my alps board and it works perfectly. I may upload a short clip of them sometime today. I may take you up on the keycap offer...
Quick update: Hit 6300 sliders!!! Getting closer to a GB. Got the first quote in today and...won't be using them as I would have to sell them at $1.10 each which is way too much for these. Hopefully the tooling cost from the others is was lower than their $4500...
I mean, we definitely need a video at some point. I filled out the IC for 2 sets of 130 (i think), but I wouldn't actually buy them without seeing a demo. We probably need to a typing demo to hear them compared to original alps switches, and we also need to see a wobble test on both 1u and stabilized keys. If you want to go the extra mile, you could show them with different profile caps installed (Cherry 1,2,3,4 DSA, SA, DCS, etc...)
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 08 January 2018, 13:08:45
This is the type of stuff I love to see, nice work!<3
Is the slider height the same? Just thinking about the stabilized keys. Would definitely love to see a video with a functioning prototype! I have some thick cherry caps from each row if you wanted to test them :thumb:
The sliders are the exact same height as a matias slider, the alps sliders are a tad taller inside the switch housing, but it isn't a necessary part for them to work and I have tested it on my alps board and it works perfectly. I may upload a short clip of them sometime today. I may take you up on the keycap offer...
Quick update: Hit 6300 sliders!!! Getting closer to a GB. Got the first quote in today and...won't be using them as I would have to sell them at $1.10 each which is way too much for these. Hopefully the tooling cost from the others is was lower than their $4500...
I mean, we definitely need a video at some point. I filled out the IC for 2 sets of 130 (i think), but I wouldn't actually buy them without seeing a demo. We probably need to a typing demo to hear them compared to original alps switches, and we also need to see a wobble test on both 1u and stabilized keys. If you want to go the extra mile, you could show them with different profile caps installed (Cherry 1,2,3,4 DSA, SA, DCS, etc...)
I can't really give an accurate typing demo seeing as the prototypes were 3d printed out of an entirely different material. I can get a much nicer prototype but that costs $25 for just 10 sliders...If I must do it then I will bite the bullet but I already spent $25 on the last prototypes to find out the material that I was suggested was horrible for key feel but great for dimensional stability.
I can only test OEM, DCS and soon EDRUG key profiles as I have never bought keysets until recently (the EDRUG). Only problem with showing wobble is I don't have a board or anything to mount a cherry stab to with an alps switch. I am a mechanical engineer if that makes you feel better about accuracy of parts and everything. I have done injection molding before and know what it takes to have a good design from that.
I do get actual production samples once we place the production order which would then give the most accurate sound and key feel. I need to know if that is a must for more people though, otherwise I really don't want to buy more prototypes to find out the material was once again crap, I already have 50 useless sliders, I don't want 10 more expensive ones as well.
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 08 January 2018, 13:14:51
This is the type of stuff I love to see, nice work!<3
Is the slider height the same? Just thinking about the stabilized keys. Would definitely love to see a video with a functioning prototype! I have some thick cherry caps from each row if you wanted to test them :thumb:
The sliders are the exact same height as a matias slider, the alps sliders are a tad taller inside the switch housing, but it isn't a necessary part for them to work and I have tested it on my alps board and it works perfectly. I may upload a short clip of them sometime today. I may take you up on the keycap offer...
Quick update: Hit 6300 sliders!!! Getting closer to a GB. Got the first quote in today and...won't be using them as I would have to sell them at $1.10 each which is way too much for these. Hopefully the tooling cost from the others is was lower than their $4500...
I mean, we definitely need a video at some point. I filled out the IC for 2 sets of 130 (i think), but I wouldn't actually buy them without seeing a demo. We probably need to a typing demo to hear them compared to original alps switches, and we also need to see a wobble test on both 1u and stabilized keys. If you want to go the extra mile, you could show them with different profile caps installed (Cherry 1,2,3,4 DSA, SA, DCS, etc...)
I can't really give an accurate typing demo seeing as the prototypes were 3d printed out of an entirely different material. I can get a much nicer prototype but that costs $25 for just 10 sliders...If I must do it then I will bite the bullet but I already spent $25 on the last prototypes to find out the material that I was suggested was horrible for key feel but great for dimensional stability.
I can only test OEM, DCS and soon EDRUG key profiles as I have never bought keysets until recently (the EDRUG). Only problem with showing wobble is I don't have a board or anything to mount a cherry stab to with an alps switch. I am a mechanical engineer if that makes you feel better about accuracy of parts and everything. I have done injection molding before and know what it takes to have a good design from that.
I do get actual production samples once we place the production order which would then give the most accurate sound and key feel. I need to know if that is a must for more people though, otherwise I really don't want to buy more prototypes to find out the material was once again crap, I already have 50 useless sliders, I don't want 10 more expensive ones as well.
I'll pay for the 10 sliders if you'll slap them on the home row and type. Send me a PM and I'll give you my paypal. Anyone wanna pony up for sending him some keycaps?
Post by: shadowrealmwarez on Mon, 08 January 2018, 13:24:37
This is the type of stuff I love to see, nice work!<3
Is the slider height the same? Just thinking about the stabilized keys. Would definitely love to see a video with a functioning prototype! I have some thick cherry caps from each row if you wanted to test them :thumb:
The sliders are the exact same height as a matias slider, the alps sliders are a tad taller inside the switch housing, but it isn't a necessary part for them to work and I have tested it on my alps board and it works perfectly. I may upload a short clip of them sometime today. I may take you up on the keycap offer...
Quick update: Hit 6300 sliders!!! Getting closer to a GB. Got the first quote in today and...won't be using them as I would have to sell them at $1.10 each which is way too much for these. Hopefully the tooling cost from the others is was lower than their $4500...
I mean, we definitely need a video at some point. I filled out the IC for 2 sets of 130 (i think), but I wouldn't actually buy them without seeing a demo. We probably need to a typing demo to hear them compared to original alps switches, and we also need to see a wobble test on both 1u and stabilized keys. If you want to go the extra mile, you could show them with different profile caps installed (Cherry 1,2,3,4 DSA, SA, DCS, etc...)
I can't really give an accurate typing demo seeing as the prototypes were 3d printed out of an entirely different material. I can get a much nicer prototype but that costs $25 for just 10 sliders...If I must do it then I will bite the bullet but I already spent $25 on the last prototypes to find out the material that I was suggested was horrible for key feel but great for dimensional stability.
I can only test OEM, DCS and soon EDRUG key profiles as I have never bought keysets until recently (the EDRUG). Only problem with showing wobble is I don't have a board or anything to mount a cherry stab to with an alps switch. I am a mechanical engineer if that makes you feel better about accuracy of parts and everything. I have done injection molding before and know what it takes to have a good design from that.
I do get actual production samples once we place the production order which would then give the most accurate sound and key feel. I need to know if that is a must for more people though, otherwise I really don't want to buy more prototypes to find out the material was once again crap, I already have 50 useless sliders, I don't want 10 more expensive ones as well.
I'll pay for the 10 sliders if you'll slap them on the home row and type. Send me a PM and I'll give you my paypal. Anyone wanna pony up for sending him some keycaps?
I got some useless grab bag keys I'd happily send if you need more profiles.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 08 January 2018, 13:35:14
I'll pay for the 10 sliders if you'll slap them on the home row and type. Send me a PM and I'll give you my paypal. Anyone wanna pony up for sending him some keycaps?
I think I sent you a pm, can't tell as I hit send but it doesn't show in my sent messages...so not 100% sure if it went through.
I got some useless grab bag keys I'd happily send if you need more profiles.
See what sncbraxsc2 is going to send me, so we cover as much as possible.
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 08 January 2018, 13:43:08
I'll pay for the 10 sliders if you'll slap them on the home row and type. Send me a PM and I'll give you my paypal. Anyone wanna pony up for sending him some keycaps?
I think I sent you a pm, can't tell as I hit send but it doesn't show in my sent messages...so not 100% sure if it went through.I got some useless grab bag keys I'd happily send if you need more profiles.
See what sncbraxsc2 is going to send me, so we cover as much as possible.
I got it. you have to send a copy to yourself to save it as a sent item on here. I already sent the funds. Good luck.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 08 January 2018, 13:52:11
I got it. you have to send a copy to yourself to save it as a sent item on here. I already sent the funds. Good luck.
Order placed!! Thank you for the help. Once these are in I will try my best to get a good sound demonstration and go over how key feel is in comparison. I don't have a mic setup but will see how well everything comes out on my camera first.
Also quick update: I have received the first 2 quotes and both are prohibitively expensive($1.10 to $1.20 per slider). If the next two are similar in cost I will have to look else where to have these made. If anyone knows of a manufacturer that may be able to help and make these in acetal (POM) I would really appreciate it.
Post by: ZayaCaps on Mon, 08 January 2018, 16:01:05
Also quick update: I have received the first 2 quotes and both are prohibitively expensive($1.10 to $1.20 per slider). If the next two are similar in cost I will have to look else where to have these made. If anyone knows of a manufacturer that may be able to help and make these in acetal (POM) I would really appreciate it.
Oof. That is a pricey estimate. Do you have an idea how much a larger order would reduce the cost?
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 08 January 2018, 16:10:35
Also quick update: I have received the first 2 quotes and both are prohibitively expensive($1.10 to $1.20 per slider). If the next two are similar in cost I will have to look else where to have these made. If anyone knows of a manufacturer that may be able to help and make these in acetal (POM) I would really appreciate it.
Oof. That is a pricey estimate. Do you have an idea how much a larger order would reduce the cost?
So in order for us to get a reasonable price ($0.50) We would need to have 20,000+ sliders ordered...currently the interest is just below 7000 sooo that is going to be a hard goal. I am still waiting on the quotes from some cheaper, still good, manufacturers, the first two are known for being quite pricey but have amazing quality that I trust (Used them when I worked a at large test equipment manufacturer and they charged $1000 to CNC a small piece of sheet aluminum...)
Post by: _haru on Mon, 08 January 2018, 17:41:53
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 08 January 2018, 18:23:41
Have you tried talking to any mechanical switch manufacturers? I can put you in touch with Greetech if you want.
No I haven't. Would they actually let me keep the rights to the molds though? Most manufacturers give the rights and ownership to the customer in case they need to move to another manufacturer in the future for some reason. Not trying to be rude buy they are a knock-off company so that is my only worry that they would sell this from under me and try and profit when I just want them at cost. Just something I am slightly worried about.
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 08 January 2018, 18:36:07
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 08 January 2018, 18:49:08
There is KBDfans. They are selling JTK sliders. Maybe they would sell yours :)
That is an option. Does anyone know how much the jtk sliders had in interest or did he just take the plunge? Never paid any attention to topre as I prefer alps so didn't bother. If we have a close enough interest level to jtk sliders at the beginning I may contact them to see if they would want a large order of them or something like that. I mean the interest level in just 3ish days has jumped to almost 7000, so that does show people want these.
Post by: _haru on Mon, 08 January 2018, 19:05:47
No I haven't. Would they actually let me keep the rights to the molds though? Most manufacturers give the rights and ownership to the customer in case they need to move to another manufacturer in the future for some reason. Not trying to be rude buy they are a knock-off company so that is my only worry that they would sell this from under me and try and profit when I just want them at cost. Just something I am slightly worried about.
I'm not sure, but I think there would have to be some sort of legal agreement about that.
Post by: donutcat on Mon, 08 January 2018, 19:06:13
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 08 January 2018, 19:35:43
Interesting stuff for sure. Lots of people want alps compatibility for PCBs, but there's no good way to get caps for odd layouts. You either get vintage caps that don't cover the layout, SP fake alps caps that rip stems out, or thin taihao caps that are also lacking layout compatibility. This'd definitely be cool for something like my donut81 where I'm providing alps support for a layout that really doesn't have keycaps for it. Lemme know if you're looking for someone to run GB logistics or maybe foot for a decent chunk of stems.
I definitely need help with a decent chunk of stems, just depends on how big of a chunk you can get :p. At the moment we have interest for just over 7000. Which would give a price point of $1.05 per slider, even at just 10,000 that drops down to $0.75 per slider and the price for 15,000 would be $0.56 per slider. I haven't received the other quotes I requested yet but I don't know if they will be cheaper, and this is the cheaper of the two quotes that I have received so far, the other company wanted ~$1.10 per slider for an order of 10,000...which is ridiculous.
I am also planning a 108-key pcb/kit that is alps compatible and that should hopefully be an IC soonish, but I haven't figured out everything on that one yet. That would possibly increase orders as well but that size board isn't as common among custom boards, and I don't know how many would actually go for it.
Not sure what to do atm. My head is in multiple places at once as I almost lost 3 email accounts with very important information and so far only 1 has been recovered. So I will leave this for today I think and relax. Hopefully everything sorts itself by tomorrow...
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 08 January 2018, 19:52:06
Best of luck.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 08 January 2018, 20:10:35
We have been waiting for something like this for what, a decade? We can certainly wait a few months longer. Take your time and don’t make hasty decisions. The last thing anyone wants to see is your life in chaos because of some plastic pieces. We can and will wait on you.
Best of luck.
I am in no means in a rush, I just want to get the volume of interest needed to make this a reality. At the moment this has actually grown way faster than I originally had expected. I started this thinking maybe 2000 at most would be bought because I never actively asked people or talked to people about alps boards. I now know that my original estimate would have been a bad thing and prohibitively high in cost, but where we stand today we are about half way to the actual MOQ that would make this an affordable option for us. I also just emailed the company that was cheaper to see if we could get a higher surface finish quality as they quoted a very gritty finish, so that quote will increase in cost and MOQ will rise.
I notice that none of the people on the list are from deskthority, which I know would have a high count for interest seeing as they love vintage more than geekhack. Has anyone shared it over there? I have never made an account there and only have looked at their wiki, so I don't know how things work over there at all.
Post by: derzemel on Tue, 09 January 2018, 12:01:18
I notice that none of the people on the list are from deskthority, which I know would have a high count for interest seeing as they love vintage more than geekhack. Has anyone shared it over there? I have never made an account there and only have looked at their wiki, so I don't know how things work over there at all.
I posted a link to this IC in the Alps Appreciation thread (https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/alps-appreciation-t12915.html) on Deskthority.
There a lot of ALPS fans on Deskthority which could be very interested by this IC. Also, most of them are very knowledgeable regarding alps and they can provide a lot of details and information.
@BlindAssassin111: as you are the one that started this IC, may I suggest that you start an IC thread on DT on the Group Buys section there (https://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/)?
All you have to do is create an account, and then create a new thread under Group Buys with the title starting like this [GB] [IC] name of thread
One more thing, please enter all the details in the new thread that you open there as well, not only a link to the the GeekHack thread. If you post only a link most of the people there will ignore it as they do not have GH accounts.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 09 January 2018, 12:17:57
I notice that none of the people on the list are from deskthority, which I know would have a high count for interest seeing as they love vintage more than geekhack. Has anyone shared it over there? I have never made an account there and only have looked at their wiki, so I don't know how things work over there at all.
I posted a link to this IC in the Alps Appreciation thread (https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/alps-appreciation-t12915.html) on Deskthority.
There a lot of ALPS fans on Deskthority which could be very interested by this IC. Also, most of them are very knowledgeable regarding alps and they can provide a lot of details and information.
@BlindAssassin111: as you are the one that started this IC, may I suggest that you start an IC thread on DT on the Group Buys section there (https://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/)?
All you have to do is create an account, and then create a new thread under Group Buys with the title starting like this [GB] [IC] name of thread
One more thing, please enter all the details in the new thread that you open there as well, not only a link to the the GeekHack thread. If you post only a link most of the people there will ignore it as they do not have GH accounts.
Will do, just found out I do have an account just haven't used it in 5 years so I forgot all about it. I replied to your post to so people know who I am if they see that as well. Will update with links once I add the IC thread.
Post by: BillyBuerger on Tue, 09 January 2018, 14:34:29
As for thick PBT caps, I don't have any either but tested with some thick Devlin Q series caps and those do hit the housing. My thought was that you might need to make the stem just a tad bit taller to avoid clearance issues with thick caps.
I posted about my experience here on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/613xwx/modification_one_of_these_things_is_not_like_the/).
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 09 January 2018, 14:55:08
This is awesome that someone is looking at getting this produced. But I would recommend looking at the version that /u/Dotdash32 on reddit designed and some of the feedback there. I made some samples of the DotDash32 ones from shapeways and they worked very well as they are. They include the gaps on the sides for installing the dampeners which is important to me personally. Also, in your only example you show, the slider doesn't have anything on the top sides of the stem. I have some iRocks k76M switches which are a alps style switch with an MX stem and they don't have the sides either. But they also added a bar to the bottom of the stem that gives additional support to the stem similar to MX switches. I put one of these in an alps switch and without the top part of the stem, it wobbled and had binding issues.
As for thick PBT caps, I don't have any either but tested with some thick Devlin Q series caps and those do hit the housing. My thought was that you might need to make the stem just a tad bit taller to avoid clearance issues with thick caps.
I posted about my experience here on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/613xwx/modification_one_of_these_things_is_not_like_the/).
The problem with the thin top arms is that they prevent a few manufacturers from being able to injection mold the parts, which is how I originally had the design as well. So I removed them and added material on the inside to make fitment better and it actually reduces wobble compared to alps/matias sliders, they did bind but that was due to a sub par material used for the prototypes that actually would stick to the metal leaf. I am getting some better prototypes soon to see if there are any issues that need to be corrected before moving forward, and a bunch of caps as well to make sure they clear.
As for the damper compatibility, I may do something in the future but not everyone likes the damped sliders, which I am not a fan of either. And the spots for them complicates the tooling and will increase price as well as change travel distance of the slider in non damped applications. as the whole for the damper is above the stops that a normal slider hits which actually elongates the travel distance a bit.
Those are the main reasons, but I may open an IC later to see how many people would prefer the damped slider. But for now I will be doing non damped.
Post by: Harms on Tue, 09 January 2018, 16:09:39
Sent from my STV100-3 using Tapatalk
Post by: BillyBuerger on Tue, 09 January 2018, 16:12:49
The problem with the thin top arms is that they prevent a few manufacturers from being able to injection mold the parts, which is how I originally had the design as well. So I removed them and added material on the inside to make fitment better and it actually reduces wobble compared to alps/matias sliders, they did bind but that was due to a sub par material used for the prototypes that actually would stick to the metal leaf. I am getting some better prototypes soon to see if there are any issues that need to be corrected before moving forward, and a bunch of caps as well to make sure they clear.
Ah, I see. Glad to see you took that into consideration. Although I prefer dampened, I might have to get in on some of these just to have around. If I really want them dampened, I could do a latex mod on them or something. Thanks.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 09 January 2018, 16:24:38
Chyros wanted to know if I had a solution to the fact that cherry stems do barely fit inside the housing opening. He was not the first person to ask this and my answer was originally, and it can be seen at the top of the original post, that you will have to file the housing slightly to fit the stem reliably. Now I know that not everyone will be willing to do so but that is the easiest most cost effective solution out there. In order to see if people would like me to produce a top housing that also allows clearance, I have made the below form to do so. Do note that this will ONLY WORK FOR ALPS, not matias switches as they are entirely different and those will have to be filed which isn't that bad seeing as they are $0.25 switches, and you can replace them, where as alps can't be replaced sadly. So that is why some of the questions make sure you acknowledge that fact.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSff4l1Q_vhLj5R7Jnf7j3KQS7VplZ0EWz9NkFtr6Db-PBfYUA/viewform?usp=sf_link
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 09 January 2018, 16:50:24
Updated the original post to reflect a new product that may be done to make this a better product in the end. Here is what it said so you don't have to guess what was changed:
Chyros wanted to know if I had a solution to the fact that cherry stems do barely fit inside the housing opening. He was not the first person to ask this and my answer was originally, and it can be seen at the top of the original post, that you will have to file the housing slightly to fit the stem reliably. Now I know that not everyone will be willing to do so but that is the easiest most cost effective solution out there. In order to see if people would like me to produce a top housing that also allows clearance, I have made the below form to do so. Do note that this will ONLY WORK FOR ALPS, not matias switches as they are entirely different and those will have to be filed which isn't that bad seeing as they are $0.25 switches, and you can replace them, where as alps can't be replaced sadly. So that is why some of the questions make sure you acknowledge that fact.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSff4l1Q_vhLj5R7Jnf7j3KQS7VplZ0EWz9NkFtr6Db-PBfYUA/viewform?usp=sf_link
Looks like we're getting some more attention now. that's great. I filled out the IC for 130 newly made housing tops.
This still has me thinking though. If you end up doing sliders and tops.... you might as well just do a switch? IDK Just thinking about how many people would rather just get new switches than trying to retrofit their old
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 09 January 2018, 17:00:02
Looks like we're getting some more attention now. that's great. I filled out the IC for 130 newly made housing tops.
Yep, Happy to have had Chyros ask me a question and I know he is right, but at the same time it sucks to have to do 2 seperate products at the same time. May need help at some point if the housing catches on as much as the slider did.
Anyone have pine alps laying around that they can send to me to model? Typically I would like a small sample (maybe 5 or so) in order to make an accurate assumption on what a dimension should actually be. I don't know what all the differences could be between the inside of the pine vs. bamboo, so I would like to check both if possible. I would prefer just the top housing just so I don't scratch you housing when taking it apart.
Post by: donutcat on Tue, 09 January 2018, 18:32:22
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 09 January 2018, 18:43:04
Imo, you'd be better off just doing the stems/tops than doing an entire switch. If you hooked up with someone like Taihao/s APC manu then it may be efficient to do the entire switch, but then you're gonna have to choose between linear/tactile/clicky, and no matter which you choose you'll end up having people split on which they want. With just the stem/top, you can appeal to anyone wanting to use their own specific switches. Plus whole switches seem like they would be a more complicated undertaking than just the addon bits. Realistically, there's benefits/drawbacks to either choice, just gotta figure out which ones you prefer to deal with.
I will only be doing the sliders, and top housing if enough interest, because I don't want to deal with the logistics of doing a full switch. Even doing the top housing is going to be stressful, as it is way more complicated than the slider and I am not sure how it will be molded.
And we are now at 8500 sliders!!! Once I get the response from the other manufacturer, I will determine the final pricing and probably open up the Groupbuy for the sliders soon. And then if the top housing gains interest I will handle it separately.
Post by: cdn-mini on Tue, 09 January 2018, 18:57:43
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 09 January 2018, 19:02:42
Why would i need a new top housing? I have SKCL Green alps
You don't have to get a new housing if you don't want to. The only reason I am doing that is if people don't want to have to file the top housing a small amount to clear the cap stem, some people may not feel comfortable modifying there vintage switches as you can't replace them and it is not reversible. But it doesn't require too much material removal, about 1 mm or so need to be removed in total and then it works.
Post by: cdn-mini on Tue, 09 January 2018, 19:06:55
Why would i need a new top housing? I have SKCL Green alps
You don't have to get a new housing if you don't want to. The only reason I am doing that is if people don't want to have to file the top housing a small amount to clear the cap stem, some people may not feel comfortable modifying there vintage switches as you can't replace them and it is not reversible. But it doesn't require too much material removal, about 1 mm or so need to be removed in total and then it works.
OH? hmm. No way i'm going to file my Green ALPS. So only way your slider will work is to file or buy the additional housing?
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 09 January 2018, 19:34:23
OH? hmm. No way i'm going to file my Green ALPS. So only way your slider will work is to file or buy the additional housing?
Basically yes, the reason is the stem is almost the exact same size as the opening on the alps housing which causes the cap to catch and can sometimes not actuate and be a pain to type on as it may take multiple presses on a single key. The filing just makes it so you clear the stem enough when the key isn't going down exactly straight (basically all the time is it off axis). The housing will be done so that you don't have to file them at all.
I don't blame you for not wanting to file down your green alps seeing as those are rare enough anyways. I don't really make money on these things so I am not doing the housing to make more profit, just because it does make sense to not want to damage your precious alps housings. I was going to be using these in matias switches personally as I want to build a custom rgb board with alps and I will also be putting a set in my at101w so I can have nice keycaps on it for the first time.
In total the slider plus housing would probably be around $1-$1.25 which is kinda pricey but for two parts that are custom for just this niche product, it is unavoidable.
Post by: cdn-mini on Tue, 09 January 2018, 19:37:35
Post by: Albatross on Tue, 09 January 2018, 21:26:10
I'll likely end up storing my rarer alps housings away and end up using the housings from some white or black alps I have laying around. I'd say at the price quoted in your email for new housings, it'd be more economical for people to find some of the more plentiful alps boards and use them as parts if they do not wish to modify their current housings. Of course time is also required to grind down the housings, but I'm already going to have to spend a fair bit of time putting in (and potentially lubing) all of the new sliders, so a bit more time doesn't mean that much to me.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 09 January 2018, 21:44:49
I received your update email and thought I'd offer my own feedback on the new housings here.
I'll likely end up storing my rarer alps housings away and end up using the housings from some white or black alps I have laying around. I'd say at the price quoted in your email for new housings, it'd be more economical for people to find some of the more plentiful alps boards and use them as parts if they do not wish to modify their current housings. Of course time is also required to grind down the housings, but I'm already going to have to spend a fair bit of time putting in (and potentially lubing) all of the new sliders, so a bit more time doesn't mean that much to me.
True that would be a good idea but with about 8500 sliders, that would literally each up most of the market for white and black alps boards as that is about 82 keyboards worth of housings. I don't want to see that many keyboards die for this project...But it would be cheaper at the going rate.
Post by: joelfong on Wed, 10 January 2018, 08:21:35
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Wed, 10 January 2018, 10:53:06
We currently have 9000 sliders of interest which is nearing the limit for the first run, which is great!!! As well the top housing has hit just over 3000 which means that I will most likely be doing that part as well for those that do want it, just need to have a minimum of 7,500 before I will commit to doing the production of it.
I have posted but in case someone didn't see it, I need SKCM alps variants to model the top housing and to check to see if there are any small differences internal to the housing. If anyone is willing to send some over I would appreciate the help!!
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 10 January 2018, 11:27:55
Some concern about using the MX-compatible replacement stems on Alps:
1. Are the modded switches still performing like Alps?
After all, people use Alps switches not for the spring, not particularly for the click-leaves (as they are bent and chopped) but for the slider-and-housing combination.
2. Matias is announcing his PBT caps for 2018 Q2.
The options are down to Signature Plastic and Matias for Alps caps only, but already better; however, with this GMK and BSP and SA are all possible.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Wed, 10 January 2018, 12:09:03
I have been waiting for similar solutions like this for ages.
Some concern about using the MX-compatible replacement stems on Alps:
1. Are the modded switches still performing like Alps?
After all, people use Alps switches not for the spring, not particularly for the click-leaves (as they are bent and chopped) but for the slider-and-housing combination.
2. Matias is announcing his PBT caps for 2018 Q2.
The options are down to Signature Plastic and Matias for Alps caps only, but already better; however, with this GMK and BSP and SA are all possible.
So I will be using one of highly polished finishes on the tooling in order to insure the final product is not scratchy by any means and may even be smoother than alps sliders, can't say for sure if they will be better, but I know they will be super nice.
Yes matias may be producing pbt caps, but the whole point of this is to be able to use any caps you want that you may already own or wanted but couldn't use because they were cherry mount. This solves the issue in a much better way for those who want the freedom, not knocking the matias caps, I would have loved to have them a while back but I like that I can use cherry sets that no alps cap manufacturer will most likely ever make.
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 10 January 2018, 13:24:56
Another thing is SKCM stems and SKCL stems are slightly different, and of course there are also the dampened sliders, e.g. from the SGI Granite and the AEKII:
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Slider (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Slider)
I think you are aware of these when you made your design decisions.
Post by: ZayaCaps on Wed, 10 January 2018, 13:30:04
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Wed, 10 January 2018, 15:57:54
Hope smooth POM materials can help.
Another thing is SKCM stems and SKCL stems are slightly different, and of course there are also the dampened sliders, e.g. from the SGI Granite and the AEKII:
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Slider (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Slider)
I think you are aware of these when you made your design decisions.
Yeah the fillet to allow for the smooth actuation of the contact leaf is there on the back side but just can't be seen in the picture, as well I just now changed the front to have a much smaller notch so it is more easily identifiable that that side is the tactile/click leaf side. Also did a small change to the internal cavity to make it a tad larger in order to use less material and be closer to how alps made it.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 11 January 2018, 14:38:46
Okay, So still waiting on the prototypes to be shipped out, seems that they are busy and haven't sent it yet. Sucks but I can't force them to produce them any faster. Hopefully they ship out by tomorrow.
I was able to get some help with the pine/bamboo top housings so I will be able to fully model them to make sure there is no major internal differences that may be present. Currently half way through modeling the SKBM housing so any differences will be added to that. I haven't decided if I will put the slits in the top for pines, but I will decide once I have the SKCM housings in my hands.
Currently we are at 9630 sliders, and 3310 housings. So once I get the prototypes in and make a video showing them off, and making any changes that I need to make it be a perfect product, I will open the GB and we will have a full first run of 10,000 most likely and if any extras are present I will sell them to those who either want a small sample or need a small quantity. I am planning on doing a round 2 in the future, so keep posted.
We still need to get more people on board with the top housings in order for it to be made. I will be modeling it and purchasing a prototype set to make sure they work well in the coming weeks. I have noticed that not many people on deskthority have joined the interest check so if you know anyone that may be interested or want to spread it more please do so.
Post by: _haru on Thu, 11 January 2018, 18:08:29
Update:
Okay, So still waiting on the prototypes to be shipped out, seems that they are busy and haven't sent it yet. Sucks but I can't force them to produce them any faster. Hopefully they ship out by tomorrow.
I was able to get some help with the pine/bamboo top housings so I will be able to fully model them to make sure there is no major internal differences that may be present. Currently half way through modeling the SKBM housing so any differences will be added to that. I haven't decided if I will put the slits in the top for pines, but I will decide once I have the SKCM housings in my hands.
Currently we are at 9630 sliders, and 3310 housings. So once I get the prototypes in and make a video showing them off, and making any changes that I need to make it be a perfect product, I will open the GB and we will have a full first run of 10,000 most likely and if any extras are present I will sell them to those who either want a small sample or need a small quantity. I am planning on doing a round 2 in the future, so keep posted.
We still need to get more people on board with the top housings in order for it to be made. I will be modeling it and purchasing a prototype set to make sure they work well in the coming weeks. I have noticed that not many people on deskthority have joined the interest check so if you know anyone that may be interested or want to spread it more please do so.
Um. I hope you meant SKCM there..
SKBM is simplified alps and no one should use it if they value their fingers.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 11 January 2018, 19:25:36
Um. I hope you meant SKCM there..
SKBM is simplified alps and no one should use it if they value their fingers.
I meant SKBM, I am making it to work with any and all alps, and will make sure that it works well for both applications and doesn't affect anything other than make some people butthurt that SKBM is supported. :p If the SKCM housing is so different that I can't make it work for both, then I will not support SKBM and have to have those be filed like the matias housings will be. I was wanting to use my sliders in my at101w so I can have nice caps on it, but I will most likely file if I can't support SKBM.
Will know by tomorrow as the package is so graciously going to arrive by 10 am thanks to sncbraxsc2.
I have been typing on SKBM click modded blacks for the entirety of the IC period. I can love what I want, just like some people love mx brown(which is an actual sin) ;)
Do I want SKCM alps again, yes but I have to find a board I want first, which is hard. Had a fk-2001 but sold it to a friend doing a restore on an 80's computer and he needed a computer with a 5 pin plug, it didn't have blues(had SKCM whites) so I wasn't attached to it at the time, but I want it back now sadly...
I do value my fingers, I just can't type nearly as fast as a lot of keyboard enthusiasts, due to mild psoriatic arthritis, so I may be different but I love alps still, just don't have $$$$ to buy boards.
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 11 January 2018, 19:40:19
Um. I hope you meant SKCM there..
SKBM is simplified alps and no one should use it if they value their fingers.
I meant SKBM, I am making it to work with any and all alps, and will make sure that it works well for both applications and doesn't affect anything other than make some people butthurt that SKBM is supported. :p If the SKCM housing is so different that I can't make it work for both, then I will not support SKBM and have to have those be filed like the matias housings will be. I was wanting to use my sliders in my at101w so I can have nice caps on it, but I will most likely file if I can't support SKBM.
Will know by tomorrow as the package is so graciously going to arrive by 10 am thanks to sncbraxsc2.
I have been typing on SKBM click modded blacks for the entirety of the IC period. I can love what I want, just like some people love mx brown(which is an actual sin) ;)
Do I want SKCM alps again, yes but I have to find a board I want first, which is hard. Had a fk-2001 but sold it to a friend doing a restore on an 80's computer and he needed a computer with a 5 pin plug, it didn't have blues(had SKCM whites) so I wasn't attached to it at the time, but I want it back now sadly...
I do value my fingers, I just can't type nearly as fast as a lot of keyboard enthusiasts, due to mild psoriatic arthritis, so I may be different but I love alps still, just don't have $$$$ to buy boards.
I feel like Matias top housing will have more appeal than SKBM, seeing as Matias switches are still being made and easily obtained through retail channels. Obviously SKCM ones are the only thing of real interest to me, just my 2 cents about the simplified top housing (if you're still moving forward with that)
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 11 January 2018, 20:07:44
I feel like Matias top housing will have more appeal than SKBM, seeing as Matias switches are still being made and easily obtained through retail channels. Obviously SKCM ones are the only thing of real interest to me, just my 2 cents about the simplified top housing (if you're still moving forward with that)
I will be making a single housing that should work with both SKBM and SKCM, but the matias housing is entierly different and not compatible at all and the whole switch costs ~$0.25 anyways so I don't see the point in making a $0.50 part when you can just file it a tad.
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 11 January 2018, 20:11:21
I feel like Matias top housing will have more appeal than SKBM, seeing as Matias switches are still being made and easily obtained through retail channels. Obviously SKCM ones are the only thing of real interest to me, just my 2 cents about the simplified top housing (if you're still moving forward with that)
I will be making a single housing that should work with both SKBM and SKCM, but the matias housing is entierly different and not compatible at all and the whole switch costs ~$0.25 anyways so I don't see the point in making a $0.50 part when you can just file it a tad.
Is this true? I was under the impression that SKBM too housing is different to SKCM and not cross compatible
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 11 January 2018, 20:27:56
Is this true? I was under the impression that SKBM too housing is different to SKCM and not cross compatible
I will find out tomorrow when I get 5 bamboo and 5 pine housings. :thumb:
I don't see where they would have been vastly different, the contact mechanism takes up almost the same exact volume, just contained more parts in that space. And the leafs I believe are cross compatible anyways, so not really room to be different. But if there are differences that are drastic I will know soon, but I don't foresee that happening.
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 11 January 2018, 20:34:44
Is this true? I was under the impression that SKBM too housing is different to SKCM and not cross compatible
I will find out tomorrow when I get 5 bamboo and 5 pine housings. :thumb:
I don't see where they would have been vastly different, the contact mechanism takes up almost the same exact volume, just contained more parts in that space. And the leafs I believe are cross compatible anyways, so not really room to be different. But if there are differences that are drastic I will know soon, but I don't foresee that happening.
I've always assumed that the non self-contained nature of the contact leafs in SKBM switches requires the too housing to have retainer clips built into the final moulded part (similar to the ridges that retains the contact leafs in a Matias switch...
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 12 January 2018, 05:29:26
Why don't you go just one step further?
Re-make complicated SKCL and SKCM switches (but with MX or whatever stem you like to design)
Matias's simplification of SKCM design has compromised a lot of desirable qualities of the older Alps switches (e.g. Alps Orange/Salmon, Alps Blue/White, Alps linear Greens/Amber, Alps dampened Cream).
Mechanical keyboard is such a niche market, you can definitely find buyers with such a revival Alps design, as long as you set your price right and competitive.
Post by: _haru on Fri, 12 January 2018, 06:48:20
Apart from a group buy of Alps-to-MX stems and replacement Alps top housings, I am seeing some bold experiments here.
Why don't you go just one step further?
Re-make complicated SKCL and SKCM switches (but with MX or whatever stem you like to design)
Matias's simplification of SKCM design has compromised a lot of desirable qualities of the older Alps switches (e.g. Alps Orange/Salmon, Alps Blue/White, Alps linear Greens/Amber, Alps dampened Cream).
Mechanical keyboard is such a niche market, you can definitely find buyers with such a revival Alps design, as long as you set your price right and competitive.
Matias did not simplify SKCM. They are clones of Simplified alps, known as the SKBM/SKBL family.
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 12 January 2018, 07:17:51
Apart from a group buy of Alps-to-MX stems and replacement Alps top housings, I am seeing some bold experiments here.
Why don't you go just one step further?
Re-make complicated SKCL and SKCM switches (but with MX or whatever stem you like to design)
Matias's simplification of SKCM design has compromised a lot of desirable qualities of the older Alps switches (e.g. Alps Orange/Salmon, Alps Blue/White, Alps linear Greens/Amber, Alps dampened Cream).
Mechanical keyboard is such a niche market, you can definitely find buyers with such a revival Alps design, as long as you set your price right and competitive.
Matias did not simplify SKCM. They are clones of Simplified alps, known as the SKBM/SKBL family.
Fair enough to say what Matias actually did more accurately.
Most people like SKCL and SKCM over the simplified Alps.
Post by: _haru on Fri, 12 January 2018, 08:38:48
Um. I hope you meant SKCM there..
SKBM is simplified alps and no one should use it if they value their fingers.
I meant SKBM, I am making it to work with any and all alps, and will make sure that it works well for both applications and doesn't affect anything other than make some people butthurt that SKBM is supported. :p If the SKCM housing is so different that I can't make it work for both, then I will not support SKBM and have to have those be filed like the matias housings will be. I was wanting to use my sliders in my at101w so I can have nice caps on it, but I will most likely file if I can't support SKBM.
Will know by tomorrow as the package is so graciously going to arrive by 10 am thanks to sncbraxsc2.
I have been typing on SKBM click modded blacks for the entirety of the IC period. I can love what I want, just like some people love mx brown(which is an actual sin) ;)
Do I want SKCM alps again, yes but I have to find a board I want first, which is hard. Had a fk-2001 but sold it to a friend doing a restore on an 80's computer and he needed a computer with a 5 pin plug, it didn't have blues(had SKCM whites) so I wasn't attached to it at the time, but I want it back now sadly...
I do value my fingers, I just can't type nearly as fast as a lot of keyboard enthusiasts, due to mild psoriatic arthritis, so I may be different but I love alps still, just don't have $$$$ to buy boards.
Er mate. I think you're a tad mixed up on some things. At101Ws came with SKCM Black. SKBM housings are the same as matias housings. You can't make a universal SKCM/BM/Matias top housing.
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 12 January 2018, 10:27:36
Um. I hope you meant SKCM there..
SKBM is simplified alps and no one should use it if they value their fingers.
I meant SKBM, I am making it to work with any and all alps, and will make sure that it works well for both applications and doesn't affect anything other than make some people butthurt that SKBM is supported. :p If the SKCM housing is so different that I can't make it work for both, then I will not support SKBM and have to have those be filed like the matias housings will be. I was wanting to use my sliders in my at101w so I can have nice caps on it, but I will most likely file if I can't support SKBM.
Will know by tomorrow as the package is so graciously going to arrive by 10 am thanks to sncbraxsc2.
I have been typing on SKBM click modded blacks for the entirety of the IC period. I can love what I want, just like some people love mx brown(which is an actual sin) ;)
Do I want SKCM alps again, yes but I have to find a board I want first, which is hard. Had a fk-2001 but sold it to a friend doing a restore on an 80's computer and he needed a computer with a 5 pin plug, it didn't have blues(had SKCM whites) so I wasn't attached to it at the time, but I want it back now sadly...
I do value my fingers, I just can't type nearly as fast as a lot of keyboard enthusiasts, due to mild psoriatic arthritis, so I may be different but I love alps still, just don't have $$$$ to buy boards.
Er mate. I think you're a tad mixed up on some things. At101Ws came with SKCM Black. SKBM housings are the same as matias housings. You can't make a universal SKCM/BM/Matias top housing.
That's what I thought too
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 12 January 2018, 10:39:19
Er mate. I think you're a tad mixed up on some things. At101Ws came with SKCM Black. SKBM housings are the same as matias housings. You can't make a universal SKCM/BM/Matias top housing.
That was a misunderstanding from years ago then, I had read about it being an SKBM at the time and I just remembered that. I never realized they were SKCM...well that makes life easier, now I know they work with generation I wanted. Makes me feel dumb for not realizing it was complicated alps, I have never taken apart another SKCM board I have owned, so never looked to see.
I don't see why people keep misunderstanding me...I never said I was going to make a matias compatible housing, I was going to make a SKBM and SKCM compatible housing, until now because now I realize that I have SKCM alps...
Bought this board when I was in high school so didn't know much about them at the time other than I wanted to try alps switches, good to have that misunderstanding corrected though...still feel dumb. :-[
Post by: Harms on Fri, 12 January 2018, 12:24:07
I thought you would make Matias Compatible housing as well.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 12 January 2018, 12:44:21
I thought the same thing before reading through.
I thought you would make Matias Compatible housing as well.
Nope, matias switches are already $0.25 for the full switch, I see no reason to make replacements for them as they are ultra cheap, RGB compatible and way too hard for me to reverse engineer right now, would need a lot more specialized measuring tools or would have to design a new one from scratch which takes a long time. It just doesn't make sense to charge double the cost of the matias switch just for the top housing. As well interest is only at 3600 for the top housing, and it will probably jump up once I get a picture and video of them up on here.
SKCM housings are the only thing I am making, matias housing and SKBM housings will have to be filed down to fit cherry caps reliably.
TL;DR SKCM = compatible with my top housing, Matias = Not compatible with my housing
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 12 January 2018, 13:06:13
Er mate. I think you're a tad mixed up on some things. At101Ws came with SKCM Black. SKBM housings are the same as matias housings. You can't make a universal SKCM/BM/Matias top housing.
That was a misunderstanding from years ago then, I had read about it being an SKBM at the time and I just remembered that. I never realized they were SKCM...well that makes life easier, now I know they work with generation I wanted. Makes me feel dumb for not realizing it was complicated alps, I have never taken apart another SKCM board I have owned, so never looked to see.
I don't see why people keep misunderstanding me...I never said I was going to make a matias compatible housing, I was going to make a SKBM and SKCM compatible housing, until now because now I realize that I have SKCM alps...
Bought this board when I was in high school so didn't know much about them at the time other than I wanted to try alps switches, good to have that misunderstanding corrected though...still feel dumb. :-[
You said you were making SKBM top housing, which I think is the thing that created confusion. Now we're all on the same page hopefully!
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 12 January 2018, 13:11:05
You said you were making SKBM top housing, which I think is the thing that created confusion. Now we're all on the same page hopefully!
Yeah I figured as much, that damn misunderstanding of mine messed with other peoples heads...Don't know where I read that the AT101W had SKBM, but I remember opening the switches recently and thinking that is looked like SKCM...there was a reason for that. :rolleyes: :-[
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 12 January 2018, 14:16:56
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 12 January 2018, 14:48:39
And like you said, we can easily file down matias housings since they are fairly cheap and easy to get. I personally like the newly tooled Matias switches a lot, but I'm looking forward to getting some MX caps on my older boards I've been picking up lately.
How recent was their tooling change? I have some that get here on tuesday.
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 12 January 2018, 16:06:23
And like you said, we can easily file down matias housings since they are fairly cheap and easy to get. I personally like the newly tooled Matias switches a lot, but I'm looking forward to getting some MX caps on my older boards I've been picking up lately.
How recent was their tooling change? I have some that get here on tuesday.
If you just bought them they should be the new ones. I don't know that there is a way to tell if they are new or not physically.
The biggest difference is much less wobble. (I'd say 60-75% less wobble than before) I have a board with Matias click in them and replaced 10 of them to see the difference. It is quite noticeable if you rest your fingers on the keycaps and wobble them. I can even tell a difference when typing. I've heard people say the problem with Matias now is still the chatter issue. It's true I've had chatter on switches, but since I D.I.Y. everything it's no big deal for me to just swap those out.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sun, 14 January 2018, 16:52:06
I have sent out for a quote on the top housing, so I will know what pricing is in a few days. I am looking at either doing ABS or POM, as I believe the alps were some time of ABS from what I have read, but POM would also be a great material as it has a very low friction coefficient, which can make these even smoother than the original. Once the quote comes in, I will see what may need to be changed to either make it manufacturable, or to remove erroneous features. From there I will then order a small sample of prototypes as well, which will take another week and a half probably.
Something that I noticed while modeling the housing is that SKCM Black alps used a different mold than any other SKCM (pine or bamboo) I don't know why this was done but it was, so the housing will fit on pine or bamboo alps, not sure about SKCM Brown as I don't know if the housing was different to accommodate the different style click leaf/plate. If it is physically the same width and depth slot in the top housing as any other SKCM switch, then it should fit. I will be testing the prototypes on SKCM Blacks to see if they fit.
SKCM Black Top Housing:
[attachimg=1]
All other SKCM Except maybe Brown:
[attachimg=2]
This is what the top housing looks like at the moment, may change in the coming days.
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
Post by: _haru on Sun, 14 January 2018, 17:59:15
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sun, 14 January 2018, 20:05:40
Perhaps consider buying a few random alps switches from someone here or r/mk. You can also buy some cheap Alps Yellow/Green/White boards off taobao for testing.
Just bought a Northgate Omnikey Ultra T to do the testing on, look super clean from the pictures so I am happy to have picked it up for a fair price.
Post by: _haru on Mon, 15 January 2018, 07:28:59
Just bought a Northgate Omnikey Ultra T to do the testing on, look super clean from the pictures so I am happy to have picked it up for a fair price.
:thumb:
Post by: joelfong on Mon, 15 January 2018, 08:22:55
Perhaps consider buying a few random alps switches from someone here or r/mk. You can also buy some cheap Alps Yellow/Green/White boards off taobao for testing.
Just bought a Northgate Omnikey Ultra T to do the testing on, look super clean from the pictures so I am happy to have picked it up for a fair price.
You can get a single brown SKCM switch here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/282503304994 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/282503304994)
orihalcon also sells a few other single SKCM and SKCL switches which could be useful in your testing. Prices are fair. He's also a geekhack user so you should be able to PM him and combine shipping or get a direct PayPal invoice from him if you prefer that.
Post by: P1kas on Mon, 15 January 2018, 08:37:12
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=orihalcon&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=switch&_sacat=0
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Wed, 17 January 2018, 19:25:33
Currently waiting on the prototypes to get here, the local weather delayed delivery so I am not sure if they when they will attempt delivery. As for interest we have reached the max for the GB, but I am working on something to sell these again. GB will consist of 11,000 sliders max, and final pricing will be announced once open. I had to upgrade to a more expensive tool steel in order to get the finish I was wanting, so pricing will reflect that, but it will only be a couple cents difference. That does mean that the new tool can produce more sliders, in fact it may be able to do a couple hundred thousand which means these may be for sale for those who miss the initial GB.
Working on finalizing the color choice for the slider, at this point I am thinking of doing a sapphire blue (Pantone color to come soon).
I will be testing these on my newly acquired omnikey ultra, and will have a typing video along with an unbiased description of the feeling, as I don't want to sell a product I don't believe in or think is high enough quality.
Thank you for the wait, hopefully the GB will open in the next week or two.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 19 January 2018, 13:35:11
Post by: Albatross on Fri, 19 January 2018, 14:16:35
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 19 January 2018, 14:21:11
It's unfortunate that the sliders don't work for clicky switches. I might still buy some for a future alps builds, but I really anticipated using these on a blue alps board in particular :(
I am very dissapointed myself, I was designing these so I can use them on my alps boards, which are all clicky...so even I have to come to terms with it for that fact.
But I am happy I found out now rather than after hundreds of click leafs were permanently deformed, That would have been terrible.
Post by: Albatross on Fri, 19 January 2018, 14:26:53
It's unfortunate that the sliders don't work for clicky switches. I might still buy some for a future alps builds, but I really anticipated using these on a blue alps board in particular :(
I am very dissapointed myself, I was designing these so I can use them on my alps boards, which are all clicky...so even I have to come to terms with it for that fact.
But I am happy I found out now rather than after hundreds of click leafs were permanently deformed, That would have been terrible.
Yeah, letting us know up front about the problem is great, I'd be even more devastated if I found out my sliders destroyed my precious switches!
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 19 January 2018, 14:28:33
Yeah, letting us know up front about the problem is great, I'd be even more devastated if I found out my sliders destroyed my precious switches!
Imagine destroying a click leaf during prototyping...I was devastated and pissed that it had happened. Now I have to buy a new switch just to replace that leaf as I don't have any spares.
Post by: azharkh on Fri, 19 January 2018, 14:34:46
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 19 January 2018, 15:56:07
Quote
What happens is when the key is pressed and the clicky leaf moves towards the slider it gets caught underneath the stem on the cap and then will be bent pretty badly.
What a shame, but in hindsight it makes a lot of sense. Alps caps, with their stem inside the switch, leave plenty of space for the mechanism to work as the cap is descending.
Definitely glad this was discovered before mass production!
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 19 January 2018, 16:26:49
What a shame, but in hindsight it makes a lot of sense. Alps caps, with their stem inside the switch, leave plenty of space for the mechanism to work as the cap is descending.
Definitely glad this was discovered before mass production!
I was definitely not expecting it to be a problem ever, but it does make sense that they would have it do that. Just unfortunate for us that it happened that way. It was definitely a small price to pay for me to lose one click leaf rather than everyone who installed them having issues and this project going down because of that.
I just hope no one does it by accident or without reading...can be a very bad day.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 20 January 2018, 20:23:06
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 22 January 2018, 19:22:35
Since I received the last prototypes and found the issue with clicky switches I have been looking at ways to possibly solve the issue and test to see if making the slider taller, so the cap doesn't go inside the switch housing as much, would fix the issue. I placed the order for another set of prototypes that I made taller and will hopefully have them by the weekend. Sucks that so much money has to be put into prototyping but I would love to fix this issue before anything is done.
I will have a video up soon as I want to show off where I am at this point, and to hopefully make people more excited about this. I will go over keycap fitment as well, and make an update when I test the new prototypes once I get them. I really hope this fixes the issue as I would love for my sliders to be used in all possible alps variants.
So currently we are at only 5700 sliders on the interest check, which is understandable given the blow of no clicky switches.
I will make sure to keep everyone updated on the current process, and give detailed results as well.
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 22 January 2018, 19:34:48
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 22 January 2018, 19:37:50
Thanks for the update :thumb:
Thank you for you interest and help. This project has been fun and stressful and it is nice to see the so many people stand with me the whole time. I will make sure this product is perfect before the GB opens.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 25 January 2018, 11:17:58
Post by: macclack on Thu, 25 January 2018, 15:26:56
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 25 January 2018, 18:20:35
Looks great. Did you file down the top housing of those Matias switches?
Yes, forgot to mention that. It is a pain as I only have some crappy files laying around. But it takes a minute or so per switch.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 30 January 2018, 17:28:12
The newest prototypes will get here tomorrow which means I can start testing clicky switches and make sure they work. Bad news is the board I was going to use to test seems to be lost in the mail and I don't know when it will get here, so that pushes the testing back to check the mounting of stabs. As well in that package is an SKCM Brown that I was going to use for testing to make sure everything works and is safe for all alps variants.
Plus I am in the process of building a new computer as my current build crashes randomly and even after a clean install it has had some issues. Which means I can't do any 3D modeling until the parts come in later this week. So I am waiting on packages mostly, and hoping my test board eventually finds its' way to my house...
If all goes well the GB will open either next week or the week after.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 01 February 2018, 18:22:25
Post by: Lepidus on Thu, 01 February 2018, 18:50:19
Super important update in the OP, please check it out and rejoice!!! ;D
Ah, thats great to hear. Cant wait to see how you solved that ;D
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 01 February 2018, 18:56:35
Ah, thats great to hear. Cant wait to see how you solved that ;D
Was stupid simple...but I was worried it would cause issues with stabs, but that will be explained in the video I make as it will be easier to show what I am talking about.
Post by: Lepidus on Thu, 01 February 2018, 19:05:24
Ah, thats great to hear. Cant wait to see how you solved that ;D
Was stupid simple...but I was worried it would cause issues with stabs, but that will be explained in the video I make as it will be easier to show what I am talking about.
Were you able to confirm if the sliders wont have any issue with thick cherry profile keycaps?
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 01 February 2018, 19:48:01
Were you able to confirm if the sliders wont have any issue with thick cherry profile keycaps?
I did state it in the last video I made, but will go over it more in tomorrows video now that the sliders is basically done. All keycap profiles do work, no conformation on things like dev/tty or any other boutique profile that may be out there. But SA, DSA, DCS, OEM, GMK/Cherry, G20 and artisans made with the $ynth all work.
So the only issue now is what color and when to open the GB.
Post by: P1kas on Thu, 01 February 2018, 22:43:12
I'd like to see pictures of a switch with the new stems mounted on a high profile case, if possible.
Thanks.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 01 February 2018, 22:54:47
How much taller are the new stems?
I'd like to see pictures of a switch with the new stems mounted on a high profile case, if possible.
Thanks.
They are exactly 1.15mm taller. I don't have a high profile case to show these on, only have 3 keyboards at the moment and none are a custom.
Post by: pomk on Fri, 02 February 2018, 01:41:08
I’m pretty sure that all vintage alps boards are ’high profile’. As in the switch plate is recessed into the case.How much taller are the new stems?
I'd like to see pictures of a switch with the new stems mounted on a high profile case, if possible.
Thanks.
They are exactly 1.15mm taller. I don't have a high profile case to show these on, only have 3 keyboards at the moment and none are a custom.
Post by: P1kas on Fri, 02 February 2018, 06:18:00
...only have 3 keyboards at the moment and none are a custom.
As mentioned above, placing them on your current vintage alps board would suffice. Just want an idea of how much the keycaps would stick out
Post by: garbo on Fri, 02 February 2018, 10:06:22
Post by: bluesclera on Fri, 02 February 2018, 10:08:21
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Fri, 02 February 2018, 10:10:28
Were you able to confirm if the sliders wont have any issue with thick cherry profile keycaps?SA, DSA, DCS, OEM, GMK/Cherry, G20 and artisans made with the $ynth all work.
Thats awesome!
My vote for the color would be for gold, like the protoss nexus in starcraft
Post by: ZayaCaps on Fri, 02 February 2018, 10:41:40
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 02 February 2018, 13:02:34
Post by: SJHL on Fri, 02 February 2018, 14:01:23
Best Update So Far:
My sliders are once again compatible with clicky switches and in fact work with stabs. I will make a video maybe tomorrow going over what was found out. As well they work with SKCM Brown beautifully.
Great news. Thanks for your hard work.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 02 February 2018, 21:30:13
Uploaded a new video going over everything about the sliders, sorry for the late upload, was busy trying to build my new computer and had to edit the video 5 times because the software kept messing the video up before export.
Post by: P1kas on Fri, 02 February 2018, 22:03:07
The added height is a bit of a bummer, but having slightly taller caps won't be a problem for me.
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 02 February 2018, 23:04:26
Like these:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/9J3P8UFW7/alps-to-mx-120-stems
Post by: garbo on Sat, 03 February 2018, 02:47:50
I don't mean to ruffle feathers, but what would the difference in height be between these slider adapters (now that they are raised up higher) and the alps to MX inserts that some people have been using?
Judging by this picture (http://imgur.com/7uLSLid), it is an improvement. It’s still sort of a dealbreaker for me, to be honest—though I’ll probably get a few anyway just to mess around with.
Ideally, both kinds could be run, but it seems unlikely there’d be enough interest to justify splitting MOQs across two products.
Post by: derzemel on Sat, 03 February 2018, 02:59:15
Those have an LED cut out in them and there might be people that may want to add the LEDs
Post by: bluesclera on Sat, 03 February 2018, 05:30:43
Post by: cdn-mini on Sat, 03 February 2018, 06:25:29
I thought the whole point was to avoid any added height? 1.5mm is considerable.
I'm in if you stick with the original design.
Post by: joelfong on Sat, 03 February 2018, 09:04:05
I think I have to agree with some of the others in that the extra height is a big deal breaker for me as a tactile alps user.
I suspect a lot of people using tactile/linear alps would very much rather the nexus slider without the extra height (wasn't this the whole point of a custom slider?). But some clicky alps users might be willing to accept this height compromise for MX keycap compatibility.
You might want to do another poll or something.
I don't think you can just go for this updated slider at this point and assume that it will meet the minimum order quantity just because it works with clicky alps.
Ideally it would be best if you can work something out with the factory and have both sliders produced so both camps can be happy. Maybe also try and see if there are vendors willing to stock up extras for sale. That way perhaps we can all make this a great success.
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 03 February 2018, 10:20:51
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 03 February 2018, 11:14:44
I don't think it would be possible to get enough people to order for both designs to be made, so I can't reasonably do that.
As for green alps, the top housing is not compatible in its current form as the cutout for the LED would prevent a cherry stem from entering the housing. You would either have to use a sacraficial SKCM top housing, or buy one of the redesigned ones that I plan on selling, which would sadly not be compatible with LEDs.
EDIT: Can GH posts have a straw poll? I have never personally seen how, or if, it can be done.
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 03 February 2018, 12:28:05
Floating keys have been a thing in our community for years. This design was also made mainstream on gaming keyboards. Many enthusiasts here are now adverse to this look.
Custom keyboards have mostly started reverting to a more traditional look with inset keycaps. I’ve seen 3 recent group buys actually proudly stating that their keycaps are properly sunken into the frame (retro60, the doyu custom, and Leandren’s builds). If you browse the comments in other custom board interest checks you’ll often see people asking how far up the keycaps sit. It’s just a sticking point for many. (Not all, but many).
Also, Cheaper (not cheap but not exorbitantly priced) boards often seem to miss the mark, with the keys not “floating” but also not recessed enough... leaving about a 1.15mm gap between the top of the case frame and the bottom of the keycaps. Hence, your sliders make an alps board somewhere in line with cheaper Chinese custom builds.
Old alps boards and cheaper Chinese manufacturing don’t sit right on my mind.
I believe these are some of the lurking factors surrounding the adversity to slightly raised keycaps.
I own all kinds of keyboards. Vintage, handmade, cheap Chinese boards, $500 custom boards. I like all of them for different reasons. I’m not saying that your new design is bad or wrong. I’m just trying to help you understand the logic behind 1.15mm being a factor.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 03 February 2018, 14:54:44
The added height, even though slight, raises eyebrows. Here are my best guesses why. Everything here is pure speculation, based on my personal opinion.
Floating keys have been a thing in our community for years. This design was also made mainstream on gaming keyboards. Many enthusiasts here are now adverse to this look.
Custom keyboards have mostly started reverting to a more traditional look with inset keycaps. I’ve seen 3 recent group buys actually proudly stating that their keycaps are properly sunken into the frame (retro60, the doyu custom, and Leandren’s builds). If you browse the comments in other custom board interest checks you’ll often see people asking how far up the keycaps sit. It’s just a sticking point for many. (Not all, but many).
Also, Cheaper (not cheap but not exorbitantly priced) boards often seem to miss the mark, with the keys not “floating” but also not recessed enough... leaving about a 1.15mm gap between the top of the case frame and the bottom of the keycaps. Hence, your sliders make an alps board somewhere in line with cheaper Chinese custom builds.
Old alps boards and cheaper Chinese manufacturing don’t sit right on my mind.
I believe these are some of the lurking factors surrounding the adversity to slightly raised keycaps.
I own all kinds of keyboards. Vintage, handmade, cheap Chinese boards, $500 custom boards. I like all of them for different reasons. I’m not saying that your new design is bad or wrong. I’m just trying to help you understand the logic behind 1.15mm being a factor.
I can understand this, I am not happy that they are taller, but it isn't because it may make people think "cheap" I just would rather have the shorter height to allow alps and cherry switches to be on the same board even, which would be an interesting custom setup.
I will have to think about which version I will be running as there is only one that can be run, as there may not be anywhere near the interest in just clicky switches to warrant the inclusion of a second part. What also seems to be the case is more people want a solution that can't be made, and would rather have the short slider and leave those with clicky boards out of this, which includes me. So it comes down to pleasing people, when I can't even use my own product, which shouldn't happen.
I have an idea to fix the issue and at the same time keep it short, but I still think people would be against it as there is always going to be someone who doesn't like my product and will never be pleased no matter how it is done. As well the idea would require another prototype, which means more money and another couple weeks to figure this out, which I don't really want to do. It is just hard to balance which solution is the best solution in order to get the 11,000 needed to run this GB.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 03 February 2018, 16:05:53
I have an idea to fix the issue and at the same time keep it short, but I still think people would be against it as there is always going to be someone who doesn't like my product and will never be pleased no matter how it is done.Why not throw out the idea for discussion?
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 03 February 2018, 16:22:41
I have an idea to fix the issue and at the same time keep it short, but I still think people would be against it as there is always going to be someone who doesn't like my product and will never be pleased no matter how it is done.Why not throw out the idea for discussion?
It is easier to show with a picture and my new computer wont even post, so I can't make the quick change to show it....I would have if I could have.
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 03 February 2018, 16:43:17
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 03 February 2018, 16:51:57
If you want to try yet another prototype I would be willing to fund it again
We shall see, I need to get my computer working and will post the new idea to get feedback after I can make the change. I might have to buy new ram, so it may not be for a couple days.
Post by: joelfong on Sat, 03 February 2018, 21:28:54
I can understand this, I am not happy that they are taller, but it isn't because it may make people think "cheap" I just would rather have the shorter height to allow alps and cherry switches to be on the same board even, which would be an interesting custom setup.
I will have to think about which version I will be running as there is only one that can be run, as there may not be anywhere near the interest in just clicky switches to warrant the inclusion of a second part. What also seems to be the case is more people want a solution that can't be made, and would rather have the short slider and leave those with clicky boards out of this, which includes me. So it comes down to pleasing people, when I can't even use my own product, which shouldn't happen.
I have an idea to fix the issue and at the same time keep it short, but I still think people would be against it as there is always going to be someone who doesn't like my product and will never be pleased no matter how it is done. As well the idea would require another prototype, which means more money and another couple weeks to figure this out, which I don't really want to do. It is just hard to balance which solution is the best solution in order to get the 11,000 needed to run this GB.
A big part of the angst now is also due to the fact that your first prototype was perfect for tactile/linear alps. Like really perfect. So it really doesn't sit well that people using tactile/linear alps should compromise for the extra height when there exists a perfect solution for this group of people, I guess me included.
So if your new idea works, if you can keep it short and still have clicky switch compatibility, then go ahead with that. I believe this is the solution everyone is hoping and waiting for. If you can make that happen then be confident in your product and its success.
If that idea fails then you'll just need to reach out to vendors and see if anyone is willing to purchase extras for resale stock.
Don't forget that there is an active asian community that enjoys alps switches as well. Consider reaching out to Chinese vendors like kprepublic to see if they're interested in being the asian/china proxy or if they are interested in buying extras for stock.
And don't base your success off the survey or poll numbers because those aren't entirely accurate, especially because you haven't really been advertising or promoting your product much in the other forums, so it definitely has not reached all the potential buyers yet.
Post by: cdn-mini on Sat, 03 February 2018, 21:45:15
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 03 February 2018, 22:02:30
A big part of the angst now is also due to the fact that your first prototype was perfect for tactile/linear alps. Like really perfect. So it really doesn't sit well that people using tactile/linear alps should compromise for the extra height when there exists a perfect solution for this group of people, I guess me included.
So if your new idea works, if you can keep it short and still have clicky switch compatibility, then go ahead with that. I believe this is the solution everyone is hoping and waiting for. If you can make that happen then be confident in your product and its success.
If that idea fails then you'll just need to reach out to vendors and see if anyone is willing to purchase extras for resale stock.
Don't forget that there is an active asian community that enjoys alps switches as well. Consider reaching out to Chinese vendors like kprepublic to see if they're interested in being the asian/china proxy or if they are interested in buying extras for stock.
And don't base your success off the survey or poll numbers because those aren't entirely accurate, especially because you haven't really been advertising or promoting your product much in the other forums, so it definitely has not reached all the potential buyers yet.
Yeah, but therein lies the problem, it was meant to be a product for all, not a product for some. I am not 100% happy with it not supporting clicky switches, so I hope the next idea works out well, and is received better than the last prototype. And the fix is super tiny, but I am have a feeling that people will still not like it.
As for vendors, I have been working on that for a while, but for the GB to run I have to get 11,000 as the total order needs to be a certain quantity for pricing reasons, So I can't go any lower as price will go up.
And I know that the forms don't accurately show what amount will be ordered, but it helped figure out how far this project could actually go. I have an IC over on DT that I update when I have anything new, but no one ever comments on it like they do here. And I have posted on reddit, but the way reddit works, it is hard to reach people for longer periods of time unless a lot of people upvote it. So it never really grew on those platforms as much as it did here.
Unfortunately the thread starter uses clicky Alps so that's his priority. And you're absolutely right why would a linear Alps user buy a compromised design when the 1st was superior?Clicky switches aren't my priority, but I don't want to make a product that I myself can't stand behind as a user. I didn't set out to make money from this, I wanted to make a product I wanted to use personally, so failing to do what I set out to do, even if people may like the shorter version, makes it a failed product.
Also, I get new ram tomorrow, so hopefully my computer will be up and running so I can get the new prototype finished and get opinions on it. That is if the ram was the issue though...
Post by: tex_live_utility on Sun, 04 February 2018, 09:05:54
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 05 February 2018, 21:59:48
Will probably do another prototype soon if people are okay with the change, otherwise I will just run the GB for the shorter slider and close it once it reaches 11,000 or close enough for me to be okay with ordering. Would rather have the product in most peoples hands, than no ones at all.
Post by: duynguyenle on Tue, 06 February 2018, 07:37:02
Well...Amazon still hasn't delivered my ram even though it was supposed to be here yesterday(paid for 1-day shipping even). Really sucks, I am going crazy over here not being able to update the model...So bear with me for a little longer so I can get this worked out.
Will probably do another prototype soon if people are okay with the change, otherwise I will just run the GB for the shorter slider and close it once it reaches 11,000 or close enough for me to be okay with ordering. Would rather have the product in most peoples hands, than no ones at all.
Looking forward to seeing the changes
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 06 February 2018, 21:17:46
Post by: Kahrkunne on Fri, 16 February 2018, 08:45:41
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Fri, 16 February 2018, 08:55:02
Well, got the ram in and my computer didn't post still. So I am going to try and get a new cpu sent out, which will take at least a week. So the GB launch is on hold until I can get the new CPU and make the next prototype. Sorry that this happened, someone smashed my cpu into something before I got it and I was hopeful it was going to work, I was wrong.
No worries man! Great things take time! I just filled out the newer IC form!
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeQlCswtGqZ-18CDlnNXohOpKMbDD3zNBGfpGcEBdBAKoH1zA/viewform?usp=sf_link
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 16 February 2018, 10:40:59
Would this work with Monterey switches?
No it will only work with alps switches.
Post by: Koobaczech on Fri, 16 February 2018, 12:47:58
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 16 February 2018, 12:53:31
Sorry for the dumb question, but what exactly is this that you are making? Some internal part to make a cherry compatible Alps switch? I imagine we open the Alps, swap the slider and done?
It is an Alps slider with a cherry stem. It is a replacement alps slider, that allows you to use cherry keycaps, you open the alps switch up, remove the original slider, pop this one in, replace the top housing with either a modified top housing or the one I will be producing, and voila.
Post by: Koobaczech on Fri, 16 February 2018, 12:58:11
Post by: p_blaze on Fri, 16 February 2018, 14:01:54
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 16 February 2018, 14:17:36
I'm a bit confused about the compatibility with Matias switches. Can someone give me a breakdown of how the nexus slider and housing work with matias?
Okay so the slider works with all alps and matias switches. For matias you have to file the top housing opening for the slider a tad so that the cherry cap stem can slid into the housing without catching, as the opening of the matias housing is almost the exact size as the keycap stem, so it doesn't travel smoothly without filing a tad.
The top housing I am making is only compatible with SKCM/SKCL alps switches, and those don't require modification for those who want to use them on the alps switches.
Post by: p_blaze on Fri, 16 February 2018, 14:59:57
I'm a bit confused about the compatibility with Matias switches. Can someone give me a breakdown of how the nexus slider and housing work with matias?
Okay so the slider works with all alps and matias switches. For matias you have to file the top housing opening for the slider a tad so that the cherry cap stem can slid into the housing without catching, as the opening of the matias housing is almost the exact size as the keycap stem, so it doesn't travel smoothly without filing a tad.
The top housing I am making is only compatible with SKCM/SKCL alps switches, and those don't require modification for those who want to use them on the alps switches.
I see, thanks for the help! I can't wait to get my hands on these!
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sun, 18 February 2018, 22:30:44
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 19 February 2018, 22:08:58
Here is the new proposed model change to support clicky switches, the little bump was added. Height is identical to the original, "short" design, and will not increase height of the caps at all. The addition is to prevent the click leaf from being able to catch under the keycap stem lip, and this makes it literally impossible for that to happen. Only downside is it will reduce the travel of the click leaf by 0.6mm, and may affect the point at which the click leaf actuates, can't say for sure if that will actually happen but it could. Now this isn't my favorite idea, but it is the last possible choice unless it is decided to not support clicky switches.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: jackofclubs on Tue, 20 February 2018, 15:28:32
Post by: P1kas on Tue, 20 February 2018, 15:36:31
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 20 February 2018, 15:44:59
I suppose this calls for another round of prototypes?
If will it people don't object to it like they did the taller version. But so far you are one of two that have even said anything....so I don't know what to think yet, lol.
Post by: P1kas on Tue, 20 February 2018, 15:49:51
It will ifI suppose this calls for another round of prototypes?
But so far you are one of two that have even said anything
Good point.
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 20 February 2018, 15:53:08
It will ifI suppose this calls for another round of prototypes?
If will it people don't object to it like they did the taller version. But so far you are one of two that have even said anything....so I don't know what to think yet, lol.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Alps switches get their tactility and unique sound from the leaf spring? So even though this could keep low key height, it seems like it will certainly have an effect on both the sound and feel of clicky and tactile switches. I would appreciate a working prototype to be tested and these factors observed, even if it was just printed and lubed.
I wouldn't imagine the design change would effect linear switches at all
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 20 February 2018, 16:03:14
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Alps switches get their tactility and unique sound from the leaf spring? So even though this could keep low key height, it seems like it will certainly have an effect on both the sound and feel of clicky and tactile switches. I would appreciate a working prototype to be tested and these factors observed, even if it was just printed and lubed.
I wouldn't imagine the design change would effect linear switches at all
It won't affect tactile switches at all as the tactile leaf doesn't move towards the slider during a keystroke, as it is held in place by tabs. The little bump I put on the slider actually slips in between the legs of the tactile leaf so it won't bend the leaf or change the feeling at all.
For clicky switches I have no idea what the actual sound difference would be, I need to do another prototype. But first I need to see a larger response to figure out where to go from here, I don't want to get a prototype again and have everyone hate it again, lol. Especially because I have already done 3 prototypes, and this would be number 4.
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 20 February 2018, 16:44:44
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Alps switches get their tactility and unique sound from the leaf spring? So even though this could keep low key height, it seems like it will certainly have an effect on both the sound and feel of clicky and tactile switches. I would appreciate a working prototype to be tested and these factors observed, even if it was just printed and lubed.
I wouldn't imagine the design change would effect linear switches at all
It won't affect tactile switches at all as the tactile leaf doesn't move towards the slider during a keystroke, as it is held in place by tabs. The little bump I put on the slider actually slips in between the legs of the tactile leaf so it won't bend the leaf or change the feeling at all.
For clicky switches I have no idea what the actual sound difference would be, I need to do another prototype. But first I need to see a larger response to figure out where to go from here, I don't want to get a prototype again and have everyone hate it again, lol. Especially because I have already done 3 prototypes, and this would be number 4.
Gotcha. I forgot about how tactile works, but you are 100% correct, of course. I've got some SKCM orange switches that feel really good. I'd love to put them on my extra LFKeyboards 65% board I have but I'm not about to try to trim another round of SP alps stems. I can't imagine how awesome they would feel with a nice set of PBT or doubleshot GMK caps on them. Looking forward to this product for sure.
If more people start asking for you to prototype, I will fund it again if you need.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 20 February 2018, 16:51:09
If more people start asking for you to prototype, I will fund it again if you need.
I will let you know when I get to that stage. Hopefully people jump in and comment tonight, if not tomorrow.
Post by: donutcat on Tue, 20 February 2018, 18:23:56
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 20 February 2018, 19:06:41
From my somewhat limited knowledge of Alps functionality, I would think that the leaf should have already contacted the stem by the point it hits that bump, hence the need for it in the first case. If that's true, there should be no perceivable difference in the sound of the click, but most likely an effect on the feel as you go down far enough for that bump to contact the leaf.
So it would affect it as the start of the slope on the bump is shorter than the height of the part of the click leaf that touches the slider by about 0.7mm(meaning the leaf will be touching the slope) so it will barely change the distance the click leaf moves as at that height it is only 0.3mm.
The bump on the slider will only come in contact with the leaf during the top part of the keystroke, after the click it will never touch the click leaf, so feel past the click will never change. Now I am not sure how this will affect the top part of the keystroke before the click and at the click, but it would be almost impossible to get an accurate measurement without the final product as the prototypes are not 100% accurate to the final part due to 3D printing limitations.
Post by: Albatross on Tue, 20 February 2018, 21:04:42
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 20 February 2018, 21:10:42
Any design which does not damage click leafs or greatly alter the switch feel is good with me. :thumb:
:thumb:
Post by: garbo on Wed, 21 February 2018, 09:41:52
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Wed, 21 February 2018, 10:07:08
Update:
Here is the new proposed model change to support clicky switches, the little bump was added. Height is identical to the original, "short" design, and will not increase height of the caps at all. The addition is to prevent the click leaf from being able to catch under the keycap stem lip, and this makes it literally impossible for that to happen. Only downside is it will reduce the travel of the click leaf by 0.6mm, and may affect the point at which the click leaf actuates, can't say for sure if that will actually happen but it could. Now this isn't my favorite idea, but it is the last possible choice unless it is decided to not support clicky switches.
(Attachment Link)
Interested in the prototype! If the only limitation is possibly a slight change in feel for the clicky switches, this does seem like the most inclusive route!
Post by: jackofclubs on Wed, 21 February 2018, 16:13:20
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Wed, 21 February 2018, 19:55:29
I already commented, but I just want to throw my opinion out there again. I think this new design the best route as well, even if it does have some sort of feel change to the clicky switches. I don't think many people even use clicky alps (I'm one of them) and the height is something I don't think a lot of people would want changed. Then again, I would buy the older prototype too....
Interested in the prototype! If the only limitation is possibly a slight change in feel for the clicky switches, this does seem like the most inclusive route!
Thank you both for the feedback, I will look into doing a prototype tomorrow, as I am sick today...
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:45:52
Okay sent an order request for the new slider prototype, as well as a single top housing sample. Total at the moment for the new prototypes is $37, may change if the printer sees a reason to. If multiple people want to help fund them, or just one person, I would really appreciate it.
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 22 February 2018, 14:59:03
What PCB/board do you plan to use these with? What is your plan for stabilizers? The only PBCs i know of that would be a good fit are the SMK/Alps ones from LFKeyboards b/c they can use cherry stabilizers. If you plan to put cherry mount caps on an Alps board, you will have to use costar stabilizer inserts on the keycaps and then bend your own wire, right? Pretty sure there is no drop-in solution for stabilizers that will work for old boards without some modification.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 15:10:37
Quick question for BlindAssassin and others who plan to use these sliders:
What PCB/board do you plan to use these with? What is your plan for stabilizers? The only PBCs i know of that would be a good fit are the SMK/Alps ones from LFKeyboards b/c they can use cherry stabilizers. If you plan to put cherry mount caps on an Alps board, you will have to use costar stabilizer inserts on the keycaps and then bend your own wire, right? Pretty sure there is no drop-in solution for stabilizers that will work for old boards without some modification.
Yeah, forgot to test this part...didn't have any costar stabs until recently but forgot to see how it fit. Will check now to see if the alps wire works.
And if they don't work, then I could sell some 3d printed keycap inserts, if people would want that, cheaper than molding them or something similar.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 15:20:20
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 22 February 2018, 15:24:58
Okay, looks like the spacing is different enough on the costar stabs that would require some new inserts or new wire to be made.
You can read about the differences here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93816.msg2555392#msg2555392
It's possible that a new type of insert could work.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 15:30:56
Okay, looks like the spacing is different enough on the costar stabs that would require some new inserts or new wire to be made.
You can read about the differences here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93816.msg2555392#msg2555392
It's possible that a new type of insert could work.
Hmm, I need to find another spacebar to test with as the one on my masterkey S PBT has the inserts further out than an alps 6.5U spacebar at least, so I think my idea would still work just have to swap which side the insert goes when installing on the caps to change if it is wider or skinnier than original.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 20:50:15
[attachimg=1]
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 22 February 2018, 20:54:39
Okay, Made the offset keycap stab insert. It can be installed in two ways, so it can be offset to be wider or skinnier depending on the keycap set used. I used sets from 4 different keyboards, AT101W, Omnikey Ultra T, Masterkeys S PBT and EDRUG Mix. It will work for all of them, but I can't test the 7U spacebar compatibility as I don't have a cherry 7U spacebar, if the cherry has the same offset from the alps insert locations, like every other key, it should be fine. It will be a 3D printed part as they wouldn't be enough interest to allow it to be injection molded as such a low quantity is needed per board, that it isn't reasonable. So it will have to be printed on either an SLA or Polyjet printer to get the accuracy and strength as the part goes down to 0.8mm and has features that are too small for other printing methods, like FDM or SLS. This will be available to just download when the time comes, or you can pay me to have them printed in a larger quantity to get a lower per piece cost. When the GB opens I will do a video going over all that is needed to do the conversion, and have more detailed information that everyone can see before buying, as it will be easier that way.
(Attachment Link)
People with lightcycle, granite, and alpine winter alps caps will most likely be interested in those inserts too. I know I want some extra
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 20:56:15
People with lightcycle, granite, and alpine winter alps caps will most likely be interested in those inserts too. I know I want some extra
I would need help advertising to those people as I don't know of an easy way to do so...
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 22 February 2018, 21:04:04
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 22 February 2018, 21:05:57
I'll link your post in a few threads.
Thank you!!! I am going to order a set of these inserts, would you want a set now to test?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 23 February 2018, 00:13:53
Just got a quote, if 140 are ordered at a time I can get them all for $35+shipping to me. So in the end probably $50 because all the printers have stupid high shipping rates for some reason...So inserts could be $5, which is a zero profit cost. So I am assuming people would be okay with a $5 set of inserts as that is extremely affordable.I'll link your post in a few threads.
Thank you!!! I am going to order a set of these inserts, would you want a set now to test?
Sending a PM
Post by: d.caminero on Fri, 23 February 2018, 06:08:41
I think you are not seeing more interest only because it has not been publicised enough. I've actually been waiting for the GB to open since the last mail communication said 2 weeks and it's passed some more time, but not everyone on the mailing list will come to GH and look how things are going.
As for the design, I'd prefer a design that changes slightly the feel than a design that will rise the caps, since that would mean lots of more problems for the stabilizers. And I plan to use clicky ALPS indeed, so I think that would be the best option.
I'd like to insist, this project has not been showed around enough for it to gain track, it's also something not very flashy like a case, so it won't have that level of attention to the thread, but there are lost of people interested in these sliders. Also, don't forget to reach kbdfans and kprepublic, China is a large market and they'll be interested as well.
Oh, and about the inserts, for $5 a set I'd take like 3 or 4.
Post by: vewy_nice on Fri, 23 February 2018, 08:05:28
People with lightcycle, granite, and alpine winter alps caps will most likely be interested in those inserts too. I know I want some extra
I would need help advertising to those people as I don't know of an easy way to do so...
I'm working on replacement AEK spacebars from SP.
I currently have an order for 100 spacebars.
I'd LOVE to buy 100 sets of these inserts to package with the bars I'll be selling.
Depending on interest, I might "stock" AEK spacebars, we'll see.
I'll PM you.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Fri, 23 February 2018, 11:15:24
Hey, just wanted to show my interest in this project.
I think you are not seeing more interest only because it has not been publicised enough. I've actually been waiting for the GB to open since the last mail communication said 2 weeks and it's passed some more time, but not everyone on the mailing list will come to GH and look how things are going.
As for the design, I'd prefer a design that changes slightly the feel than a design that will rise the caps, since that would mean lots of more problems for the stabilizers. And I plan to use clicky ALPS indeed, so I think that would be the best option.
I'd like to insist, this project has not been showed around enough for it to gain track, it's also something not very flashy like a case, so it won't have that level of attention to the thread, but there are lost of people interested in these sliders. Also, don't forget to reach kbdfans and kprepublic, China is a large market and they'll be interested as well.
Oh, and about the inserts, for $5 a set I'd take like 3 or 4.
I will send an email soon, should have done that but was having computer problems for the past month so I was literally at a standstill.
I am also not sure when I will get the new prototype in as the printer hasn't responded asking for payment...
Post by: stoic-lemon on Sat, 24 February 2018, 02:22:29
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 24 February 2018, 15:04:41
I'm here from the Alpine Winter thread. I'm very interested in picking up some inserts. Very interested indeed.
Sweet, Nice to see people interested in the inserts.
Post by: jackofclubs on Sat, 24 February 2018, 20:45:39
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 24 February 2018, 21:04:44
Has this been publicized on topclack? If not, you should definitely send them a message when the prototype is set
It has not, I have thought about it but haven't approached them yet. I will try and do it after I get the new prototypes in order to make sure everything is set before I go that far.
Post by: tanvir175 on Sun, 25 February 2018, 01:09:24
I'm interested in at least 70-80 of the sliders and a set of the inserts.
Question about the inserts though: Is it $5 for enough inserts for one stabilized key (just the spacebar, for example) or for a full set (spacebar, backspace, both shifts, enter, etc)? I'm assuming the former but the email update said 14 inserts so I want to make sure.
Post by: M4dn3ss on Sun, 25 February 2018, 01:14:01
Okay, Made the offset keycap stab insert. It can be installed in two ways, so it can be offset to be wider or skinnier depending on the keycap set used. I used sets from 4 different keyboards, AT101W, Omnikey Ultra T, Masterkeys S PBT and EDRUG Mix. It will work for all of them, but I can't test the 7U spacebar compatibility as I don't have a cherry 7U spacebar, if the cherry has the same offset from the alps insert locations, like every other key, it should be fine. It will be a 3D printed part as they wouldn't be enough interest to allow it to be injection molded as such a low quantity is needed per board, that it isn't reasonable. So it will have to be printed on either an SLA or Polyjet printer to get the accuracy and strength as the part goes down to 0.8mm and has features that are too small for other printing methods, like FDM. SLS can work, but the surface finish is very rough and can affect the actuation even when lubed. This will be available to just download when the time comes, or you can pay me to have them printed in a larger quantity to get a lower per piece cost. When the GB opens I will do a video going over all that is needed to do the conversion, and have more detailed information that everyone can see before buying, as it will be easier that way.I'm very interested in these inserts, even with custom bending wires it doesn't quite feel right.
(Attachment Link)
Anyway, how exactly would this insert sit inside the right side stem of the keycap? It appears to be only designed to sit in the left side stem.
Here to show support.
I'm interested in at least 70-80 of the sliders and a set of the inserts.
Question about the inserts though: Is it $5 for enough inserts for one stabilized key (just the spacebar, for example) or for a full set (spacebar, backspace, both shifts, enter, etc)? I'm assuming the former but the email update said 14 inserts so I want to make sure.
14 might not be enough for people doing a 104 key board unless the spacebar uses a Costar-style stabiliser (like Matias boards, V60/V80, Filco Zero)
Post by: tanvir175 on Sun, 25 February 2018, 01:23:57
Here to show support.
I'm interested in at least 70-80 of the sliders and a set of the inserts.
Question about the inserts though: Is it $5 for enough inserts for one stabilized key (just the spacebar, for example) or for a full set (spacebar, backspace, both shifts, enter, etc)? I'm assuming the former but the email update said 14 inserts so I want to make sure.
14 might not be enough for people doing a 104 key board unless the spacebar uses a Costar-style stabiliser (like Matias boards, V60/V80, Filco Zero)
[/quote]
Wouldn't they need 14 max? 2 per key for 7 stabilized keys. Unless I'm misunderstanding the entire inserts thing.
Post by: M4dn3ss on Sun, 25 February 2018, 01:29:56
Wouldn't they need 14 max? 2 per key for 7 stabilized keys. Unless I'm misunderstanding the entire inserts thing.8 stabilised keys:
Backspace, enter, LShift, RShift, space, Num0, NumEnter, Num+
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sun, 25 February 2018, 11:37:07
8 stabilised keys:
Backspace, enter, LShift, RShift, space, Num0, NumEnter, Num+
I knew I was forgetting a key...well price will be a tad higher then for 16 instead of 14.
Question about the inserts though: Is it $5 for enough inserts for one stabilized key (just the spacebar, for example) or for a full set (spacebar, backspace, both shifts, enter, etc)? I'm assuming the former but the email update said 14 inserts so I want to make sure.
It was $5 for all 14 of them, but because I forgot 2 of them, price will go up a tad.
Anyway, how exactly would this insert sit inside the right side stem of the keycap? It appears to be only designed to sit in the left side stem.
There are two of them, with the offset in the opposite direction, just didn't show the other one as I took the picture from just on of the part files. They can mount on either side of the keycap depending on if you need them to be wider or skinnier to work with the wire you are using. But I did screw up and order prototypes of just one of the sides, so...that sucks.
Post by: tanvir175 on Sun, 25 February 2018, 13:05:47
8 stabilised keys:
Backspace, enter, LShift, RShift, space, Num0, NumEnter, Num+
I knew I was forgetting a key...well price will be a tad higher then for 16 instead of 14.Question about the inserts though: Is it $5 for enough inserts for one stabilized key (just the spacebar, for example) or for a full set (spacebar, backspace, both shifts, enter, etc)? I'm assuming the former but the email update said 14 inserts so I want to make sure.
It was $5 for all 14 of them, but because I forgot 2 of them, price will go up a tad.Anyway, how exactly would this insert sit inside the right side stem of the keycap? It appears to be only designed to sit in the left side stem.
There are two of them, with the offset in the opposite direction, just didn't show the other one as I took the picture from just on of the part files. They can mount on either side of the keycap depending on if you need them to be wider or skinnier to work with the wire you are using. But I did screw up and order prototypes of just one of the sides, so...that sucks.
Holy crap, that's awesome! Definitely down for a set or maybe even 2 just to help MOQ, if needed.
Wouldn't they need 14 max? 2 per key for 7 stabilized keys. Unless I'm misunderstanding the entire inserts thing.8 stabilised keys:
Backspace, enter, LShift, RShift, space, Num0, NumEnter, Num+
Ahh, I was missing one. Thanks!
Post by: d.caminero on Sun, 25 February 2018, 15:54:11
Hey, just wanted to show my interest in this project.
I think you are not seeing more interest only because it has not been publicised enough. I've actually been waiting for the GB to open since the last mail communication said 2 weeks and it's passed some more time, but not everyone on the mailing list will come to GH and look how things are going.
As for the design, I'd prefer a design that changes slightly the feel than a design that will rise the caps, since that would mean lots of more problems for the stabilizers. And I plan to use clicky ALPS indeed, so I think that would be the best option.
I'd like to insist, this project has not been showed around enough for it to gain track, it's also something not very flashy like a case, so it won't have that level of attention to the thread, but there are lost of people interested in these sliders. Also, don't forget to reach kbdfans and kprepublic, China is a large market and they'll be interested as well.
Oh, and about the inserts, for $5 a set I'd take like 3 or 4.
I will send an email soon, should have done that but was having computer problems for the past month so I was literally at a standstill.
I am also not sure when I will get the new prototype in as the printer hasn't responded asking for payment...
No rushes, I've read about your computer problems and thought I could try to help you troubleshoot it but then saw your message was from like 2 or 3 weeks ago.
Keep it up, I'll post about this on reddit and sending some prototypes to topclack (with some ALPS and caps just in case) can definitely help spread this out. I'm sure there will be a big interest! :thumb: :thumb:
Post by: jackofclubs on Mon, 26 February 2018, 23:28:21
Post by: P1kas on Mon, 26 February 2018, 23:37:10
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 26 February 2018, 23:38:49
Just curious, Do you think these would fix an otherwise scratchy alps switch? (one that dust has already gotten to)
If you were to buy the top housings I am making, yes it would fix the scratchiness of them. Each part will be a separate option on the order form, so you can just buy the top housings when the GB opens.
Post by: jackofclubs on Mon, 26 February 2018, 23:51:54
Just curious, Do you think these would fix an otherwise scratchy alps switch? (one that dust has already gotten to)
If you were to buy the top housings I am making, yes it would fix the scratchiness of them. Each part will be a separate option on the order form, so you can just buy the top housings when the GB opens.
I wish. ALPS switches in bad condition can't really be fixed, no matter how much you clean/lube them.
Post by: P1kas on Tue, 27 February 2018, 00:16:13
Post by: jackofclubs on Tue, 27 February 2018, 00:20:12
It must be something else that's degraded if they can't be fixed by cleaning.
I think the consensus is that after a lot of use with dust in the switch, it scratches away at the plastic.
Post by: P1kas on Tue, 27 February 2018, 00:42:33
New slider/top housing would hopefully remedy that, as long as the metal leaves are in good condition
Post by: consolation on Thu, 01 March 2018, 13:28:44
Just curious, Do you think these would fix an otherwise scratchy alps switch? (one that dust has already gotten to)
If you were to buy the top housings I am making, yes it would fix the scratchiness of them. Each part will be a separate option on the order form, so you can just buy the top housings when the GB opens.
I wish. ALPS switches in bad condition can't really be fixed, no matter how much you clean/lube them.
Very carefully opening the switch plate and cleaning it often helps with mystery grit. I found dry ptfe (teflon) lube to work ok on the factory lubed ones. But, there's a limit to how much you can fix and working on the plate assembly is a nightmare. It's really easy to make it too loose to fit back together correctly. But, with practice, there's a decent chance to fix some switches.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: tanvir175 on Sun, 04 March 2018, 01:05:49
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sun, 04 March 2018, 01:08:20
Any updates on this?
I will soon, I have the prototypes in, just waiting for the stab inserts to arrive, and will make a single update on Tuesday.
Post by: tanvir175 on Sun, 04 March 2018, 01:49:26
Any updates on this?
I will soon, I have the prototypes in, just waiting for the stab inserts to arrive, and will make a single update on Tuesday.
Awesome!
Now all I have to do is decide on whether to use these with Orange Alps on an Alps64 in the Modern M0110 or source some Salmon Alps and build an Alps64 into a different case.
Main decision is whether or not I want the Modern M0110 to have the aek keyset or not.
Post by: d.caminero on Mon, 05 March 2018, 05:45:56
Any updates on this?
I will soon, I have the prototypes in, just waiting for the stab inserts to arrive, and will make a single update on Tuesday.
Awesome!
Now all I have to do is decide on whether to use these with Orange Alps on an Alps64 in the Modern M0110 or source some Salmon Alps and build an Alps64 into a different case.
Main decision is whether or not I want the Modern M0110 to have the aek keyset or not.
I need them for my Pearl build so I hope this GB don't take for too long! :p :p
Post by: tanvir175 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 10:03:21
Any updates on this?
I will soon, I have the prototypes in, just waiting for the stab inserts to arrive, and will make a single update on Tuesday.
Awesome!
Now all I have to do is decide on whether to use these with Orange Alps on an Alps64 in the Modern M0110 or source some Salmon Alps and build an Alps64 into a different case.
Main decision is whether or not I want the Modern M0110 to have the aek keyset or not.
I need them for my Pearl build so I hope this GB don't take for too long! :p :p
Does the PCB and plate that came with the Pearl support Alps out of box? I'd love to see some pictures of your build if you've completed it!
Post by: d.caminero on Mon, 05 March 2018, 10:23:43
Does the PCB and plate that came with the Pearl support Alps out of box? I'd love to see some pictures of your build if you've completed it!
Yes it does! Mine is still on it's way to me, but you can see the first ALPS build in the thread here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92259.msg2570958#msg2570958 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92259.msg2570958#msg2570958)
I'm (un)patiently waiting for mine to come, but do not worry I'll post pics :D
Post by: tanvir175 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 11:02:23
Does the PCB and plate that came with the Pearl support Alps out of box? I'd love to see some pictures of your build if you've completed it!
Yes it does! Mine is still on it's way to me, but you can see the first ALPS build in the thread here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92259.msg2570958#msg2570958 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92259.msg2570958#msg2570958)
I'm (un)patiently waiting for mine to come, but do not worry I'll post pics :D
Oh that's awesome! I think I have just enough leftover orange Alps to fit a Pearl and, if not, I definitely have enough for orange Alps alphas and salmon Alps mods. I might have to go on the hunt for one now! It looks stunning but I wasn't dedicated to a 40% when the GB ran.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 11:13:54
I need them for my Pearl build so I hope this GB don't take for too long! :p :p
Sadly it will take at least a month from people ordering to final fulfilment, so your poor pearl will be sad for a while.
Hopefully USPS keeps the inserts on schedule so I get them today, if not it may delay the update...
Post by: a_ak57 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 12:29:20
Think I'm gonna throw some of these and some Matias QCs in my Southpaw keyboard to use at work.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 13:06:22
I feel like this may have been covered but quickly skimming the topic again I didn't see it; what is the expected lead/production time you've been given?
Think I'm gonna throw some of these and some Matias QCs in my Southpaw keyboard to use at work.
I actually never mentioned the exact time frame, thank you for bringing that up.
Schedule:
- Orders: 7 - 14 days(or whenever it hits 11,000 sliders)
- Invoice/Payment: 7 days
- Manufacturing and shipping: 10 - 15 days
- Sorting and Final shipment to y'all: 7 - 14 days
Total: 31 to 50 days
Hopefully the lower end of that, just depends on how fast people order and how fast I can actually sort and ship them.
Post by: shadowrealmwarez on Mon, 05 March 2018, 13:17:03
I feel like this may have been covered but quickly skimming the topic again I didn't see it; what is the expected lead/production time you've been given?
Think I'm gonna throw some of these and some Matias QCs in my Southpaw keyboard to use at work.
I actually never mentioned the exact time frame, thank you for bringing that up.
Schedule:
- Orders: 7 - 14 days(or whenever it hits 11,000 sliders)
- Invoice/Payment: 7 days
- Manufacturing and shipping: 10 - 15 days
- Sorting and Final shipment to y'all: 7 - 14 days
Total: 31 to 50 days
Hopefully the lower end of that, just depends on how fast people order and how fast I can actually sort and ship them.
Sorry if this was covered, was the tickly issue resolved? I have some salmon alps I'd love to make MX capable.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 13:26:02
Sorry if this was covered, was the tickly issue resolved? I have some salmon alps I'd love to make MX capable.
There was never an issue with tactile alps, only clicky for the prototype. That problem has now been resolved and there is not longer an issue with them.
Post by: d.caminero on Tue, 06 March 2018, 03:29:41
Sadly it will take at least a month from people ordering to final fulfilment, so your poor pearl will be sad for a while.
Hopefully USPS keeps the inserts on schedule so I get them today, if not it may delay the update...
A month or two I can wait without any problem for that. I mean, it'll be the closest I've been to endgame so I can be patient hahah
Meanwhile I'll be throwing DSA Lightcycle so it's not really an issue.
Looking forward to that update!
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Tue, 06 March 2018, 18:23:30
Okay so all of the prototypes have arrived, and I have been looking over and testing them out.
1) The slider was really, really good and only thing I changed after testing was to make the bump smaller as it was a tad bigger than I truly needed it to be. This means that the travel of the click leaf will be affected even less because of this, which is great. I would take pictures but the parts were printed translucent and my camera can't focus on them at all, so it looks way too blurry.
2) The top housing was almost perfect, just have to make a change to better support SKCM Brown tactile leafs, as it was still interfering in one part, but I figured that would happen and that was one of the things I planned to test with this prototype.
3) Sadly I only got one side of the inserts printed, but I had a spacebar with two sets of stab locations so I was still able to test them without issue. When lubed, they are super, super smooth. I made a linear space bar from an SKCM Black as that is the only alps board I have with a 6.25U spacebar, and they are perfectly matched. Only thing I need to change is the spacebar can spin a tad because the insert groove for the wire is too deep and doesn't rest against the wire when sitting at "rest", or the unpressed state, Which is an easy fix. I need to get a quote from someone to print these and to check to make sure that they are okay with printing this many parts, as it will take a ton of material for them and not everyone would have that much on hand.
4) In my last post I gave an estimated schedule for the GB, I want to make a revision to that. That time frame was if I used a different manufacturer than I will be using. To make it easier to explain, The original one I was going to use is Manufacturer A, and the different one mentioned for the schedule was Manufacturer B. I was planning on using A originally, but wanted to see what B could do as they manufacture in the US, which means faster turn around, and I quoted the schedule as if I were to use B, because I expected pricing to be similar to B's first quote. The issue is pricing for B was more than A by about $0.10 each, which would put the pricing at $0.60 per slider. Whereas if I use A, I can sell them for $0.50 each, but they manufacture in China, and that will take longer than if I used B. This is a hard choice, but I will be using A as I can't raise pricing that high, so the schedule for manufacturing needs to be increased to 15 - 35 days, as shipping to me will take quite a bit of time. This is an estimate, and can take less time depending on how fast they actually ship it and I have never dealt with customs before, so I don't know what to expect. So because of this the window for completion is 36 to 70 days.
Post by: d.caminero on Wed, 07 March 2018, 04:16:35
Oh and BTW, although it seems you've decided already, I personally would prefer a quicker turnaround for that $0.10 difference. 100 sliders would be just $10 for one month less of waiting, worth it for me, but that's my personal opinion :)
Post by: garbo on Wed, 07 March 2018, 05:44:18
I don't personally mind waiting an extra month or so, but wouldn't be too upset about the extra cost if it turns out most people are feeling impatient for whatever reason.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Wed, 07 March 2018, 14:20:37
Seems good to me. Would you say there's much difference in how your white Alps sound now the bump has been added?
It was barely noticeable, but because the bump is even smaller now, it shouldn't make any difference that is easily noticeable. I think keycaps will make a bigger difference in sound than that bump will.
Post by: stoic-lemon on Thu, 08 March 2018, 20:25:55
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 08 March 2018, 20:39:53
We're all the prototypes made with manufacturer A or B? Just wondering how that might affect how they turn out.
No prototypes were made through either A or B, as I would have to buy the tooling to get parts from them which is almost $6k for just the slider. They were 3D printed.
Post by: jackofclubs on Fri, 09 March 2018, 01:45:14
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 09 March 2018, 02:25:52
We're all the prototypes made with manufacturer A or B? Just wondering how that might affect how they turn out.
Non prototypes were made through either A or B, as I would have to buy the tooling to get parts from them which is almost $6k for just the slider. They were 3D printed.
Ah, of course. Got it.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 10 March 2018, 14:35:28
Okay so the plan was to start the GB on monday, 3/12, but I still haven't received the newest quote from manufacturer A, which is needed to make sure pricing is set in stone.
Pricing has changed a tad because I was stupid and forgot to factor in taxes for the sliders, but may change if the final quote is different(which I doubt will be different).
So with that said, I will still be launching the GB on Monday at Noon central time and will be open until Monday 3/26 at midnight central time.
This is the color I have decided on, I wanted something that is different and not commonly used among the ton of switches out there today.
[attachimg=1]
New Pricing: (Final shipping and paypal fees not included)
- Sliders: $0.55 each (MOQ of 11,000)
- Top housings:
- QTY 6,000: $1.20
- QTY 8,000: $1.00
- QTY 10,000: $0.80
- QTY 12,000: $0.70
- QTY 14,000: $0.60
- QTY 18,000: $0.50
- Stab Inserts: $5 - $8
- not sure how many will be ordered so price will vary and I can't say for sure until the order is placed, but it will be in this range.
So between now and monday I will be getting the GB page ready and setting up the order form, which will take some time. If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer them. Thank you all for the support, and sorry that the process has taken so long.
Post by: duynguyenle on Sat, 10 March 2018, 15:55:49
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 10 March 2018, 16:10:04
Only one week period for ordering? I think that will cut out some potential buyers who may not have cash readily on hand
I was trying to figure out how long to leave it open, and couldn't decide if I should do it for 2 weeks or a different window. I think I will just go ahead and open for 2 weeks, a lot going on in my head trying to get everything ready, so sorry if it seemed short.
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Sat, 10 March 2018, 22:03:50