[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=108326.0][img width=360 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/AYtifVh.gif[/img][/url](https://i.imgur.com/AYtifVh.gif)Oh hell yes!
FYI KAM is not the equivalent to KAT R2... KAM is a modified row 3 of KAT.
Thanks for the detailed clarificationFYI KAM is not the equivalent to KAT R2... KAM is a modified row 3 of KAT.
KAT is numbered from the bottom, so it is R2.
KAM is not equivalent to KAT R2, but it's a modified version of it to be symmetrical, as you said.Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=97181.0;attach=221529;image)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/AHnW2CT.png)
I was so hyped on this set right up until I saw that 40s users dont get any choice in mod styles. I would buy multiple sets of this to be able to use terminal mods and highlight mods on different boards. Please consider adding additional 40s kits so that we don't miss out on some of the coolest aspects of this set.I was disappointed when I saw 40s/ortho didn't have terminal mods. Will probably still get this, but terminal mods in 40s/ortho would be instacop.
KAM is not for me, but this design is great. Good luck with this project!
any chance on nonstandard esc and del for vortex race 3?
Feels great seeing more KAM sets, can you add a homing kitThis!!! My biggest complaint about Starry Night is that it only has F and J as homing. Would love the opption for HUNTA homing so I could change it to true Colemak.
Is this Keyreative?Are you referring to caps being off-kilter when mounted? Tbh, I don't use my Starry Nights much but the keeb sits on my desk and I can't unsee that some caps tilt no matter what I do.
Are they gonna fix their stabilized key mounting molds?
Just an info for someone like me with no experience with KAT/KAM: how would a KAM profile compare to an XDA? I have the impression that KAM has a more concave printed area while still keeping a similar side shape to the XDA, but I'm not sure I'm getting it right.They are quite different visually when put side to side..
Just an info for someone like me with no experience with KAT/KAM: how would a KAM profile compare to an XDA? I have the impression that KAM has a more concave printed area while still keeping a similar side shape to the XDA, but I'm not sure I'm getting it right.They are quite different visually when put side to side..
Taking my KAT R2 keys (from KAT Alpha) and XDA keys (from various sets) together (disclaimer: i know KAM is symmetrical, while KAT R2 is not, but it's the closest thing, i am still waiting for KAM Wraith..), lets see the differences, calling KAT R2 "KAM" to keep things simple...
Thanks! It was really helpful to get a better idea. From your description it seems like it is more efficient for typing compared to an XDA.It's really a matter of taste, and habit.
Looks good! Any plans for terminal 40s_orho mods?
Looks good! Any plans for terminal 40s_orho mods?
FFTG has already expressed interest in doing this over in his discord. Gotta nail down what the 40s kit will look like first. :cool:
Excited for this set, I love that you included ISO-IT specific keys in the international kit :D
Excited for this set, I love that you included ISO-IT specific keys in the international kit :D
"éè" and "§ù" keys will conquer the scene one GB at a time :)
Thoughts on VIM keys for HJKL? Looks awesome.
Of course, because it is all uniform, I think the arrow accents probably fill that role
So what are the chances of getting terminal and highlight 40's kits? I would buy one of each of those
International kits updated! Split the large international kit into 3:
Terminal ISO + UK
North
South
As well as fixed some key errors and filled in some missing keys. It's possible I'll still go back and amend the south kit to include keys from north that are required to avoid people having to purchase both. At the moment it is an extension.
From a merely Italian perspective (unless other languages have the same issue) I think in the South we would just need 3 more:
,;, .: and 6&
In order to make it fit with ISO+SOUTH only
Also e€ would be nice to have.
About this latter: I noticed that, where a character is under AltGr, you placed it in the lower left corner. Since the € is under AltGr aswell, would it make sense to place it there too, instead of using the standard position of the shift ruled characters? I'm going full finicky here and I know that this involves also the aesthetics. It does not bother me at all as it is now. It was just to share a quick thought.
Also noticed the raise of the apostrophe in the '? cap vs the previous international kit. It's perfect :-)
I'm not a fan of having shifted legends on the left and base legends on the right (| \). This is contrary to how we commonly represent legends horizontally, especially in text (\ |). This set is inspired by text, after all. Consider flipping the legends around.Nice catch on the legends, not something I would have noticed.
A 1u = key should be added to the numpad.
1.75u function and 2u space should be added to mods (for Alice and other ergo boards), and 1.5u del should be removed (not common enough).
pgup, pgdn are not used on 40s/ortho and can be removed from the kit. The same goes for 3u spacebars. There appear to be two 2.25u spacebars in this kit; the second one is not commonly used and should be replaced with a second 2u spacebar (which is common on orthos).
Edit: added clarifications
I'm not a fan of having shifted legends on the left and base legends on the right (| \). This is contrary to how we commonly represent legends horizontally, especially in text (\ |). This set is inspired by text, after all. Consider flipping the legends around.Nice catch on the legends, not something I would have noticed.
A 1u = key should be added to the numpad.
1.75u function and 2u space should be added to mods (for Alice and other ergo boards), and 1.5u del should be removed (not common enough).
pgup, pgdn are not used on 40s/ortho and can be removed from the kit. The same goes for 3u spacebars. There appear to be two 2.25u spacebars in this kit; the second one is not commonly used and should be replaced with a second 2u spacebar (which is common on orthos).
Edit: added clarifications
I agree about pgdn and pgup. I could swear it already includes 2x2u, but if what you say is true I agree with that too (I assume when you say “one” you mean one per color). Personally I like the 3u option, but it probably makes more sense in a separate kit.
One thing I would add is an enter key in bright green. I believe it’s more common for ortho to highlight esc/enter and space than the arrow keys.
Edit
[mention]Arsoth [/mention] , he definitely decided against the drive letter alphas (A:/, B:/, etc), if that’s what you are thinking of, or we’re there standard uppercase that I’m forgetting? I didn’t like the drive letters, but standard caps could work. The lowercase reminds me of variables, which I like with the theme.
Usually the numpad kit contains additional 1U keycaps for 96keys layout.
See Kat Explosion for example... https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103655.0
From a merely Italian perspective (unless other languages have the same issue) I think in the South we would just need 3 more:
,;, .: and 6&
In order to make it fit with ISO+SOUTH only
Also e€ would be nice to have.
About this latter: I noticed that, where a character is under AltGr, you placed it in the lower left corner. Since the € is under AltGr aswell, would it make sense to place it there too, instead of using the standard position of the shift ruled characters? I'm going full finicky here and I know that this involves also the aesthetics. It does not bother me at all as it is now. It was just to share a quick thought.
Also noticed the raise of the apostrophe in the '? cap vs the previous international kit. It's perfect :-)
That's a good point on the Euro sign! There are probably others like that too but you're totally right. And yes there were a few corrections to backticks, accents, commas and apostrophes where I had them all mixed up ;) My initial reference was not at all clear!
Actually I guess these 2 could work also in the ISO kit, in order not to duplicate them for North and South: if I remember correctly ,; and .: are present in a lot of European layouts. I can at least recall: Italy, Germany, Spain, Netherlands (I think) and all 3 Scandinavian countries plus Finland.
You have to keep in mind that KAM is a uniform keycap profile — any key can be used on any row.
Re North and South: have you seen this (http://www.farah.cl/Keyboardery/Possible-International-Kits-for-Custom-Sets/#BRESLAPTIT)?
Re North and South: have you seen this (http://www.farah.cl/Keyboardery/Possible-International-Kits-for-Custom-Sets/#BRESLAPTIT)?
Thanks for the link. :)
Just don't know why it states that the 141 layout is "Older and obsolete" compared to the 142.
Actually, I think I've never seen, in real life, a 142 layout with its @,#,[,], etc in R1.
I would indeed edit the BRASLAPTIT using the 141 as a main reference.
But overall it is a remarkable reference tool.
Holy moly, I totally missed that video before now. Very cool!
Who are those homing keys even for?
dvorcol keeps an extensive tracking for homing keys:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/uUyaF2N.png)
TUNAH should cover all of them. E if you want to include BEPO. A is super-rare, but why not then. It's just that S and I do nothing for anyone.
The homing keys are super nice. this is the only set that has symmetric keycaps and extensive homing keys. There are not only english layouts. I use a german layout where i need a E and N homing key and the abililty to swap the keys between rows. this is the first set that features both. So its a must buy for me(also looks super sick). But i can imagin that there are other people having the same problem and maybe they need the homing S or so.
The homing keys are super nice. this is the only set that has symmetric keycaps and extensive homing keys. There are not only english layouts. I use a german layout where i need a E and N homing key and the abililty to swap the keys between rows. this is the first set that features both. So its a must buy for me(also looks super sick). But i can imagin that there are other people having the same problem and maybe they need the homing S or so.
You want an E and N, I'm not going to argue against it. I'm asking about the S an I.
With that logic of "we don't know, but it might be out there" you could add the entire alphabet. If you don't know why a key is added, it's better not to add it.
I love everything about this set, I'm just not a big fan of this ALPHA<->MOD separation. Would be great if the ALPHAS would be available in the same color as the mods, especially for non-standard layouts.
A set designer telling the community "STFU, I'm going to support ALL the alternative layouts."The homing keys are super nice. this is the only set that has symmetric keycaps and extensive homing keys. There are not only english layouts. I use a german layout where i need a E and N homing key and the abililty to swap the keys between rows. this is the first set that features both. So its a must buy for me(also looks super sick). But i can imagin that there are other people having the same problem and maybe they need the homing S or so.
You want an E and N, I'm not going to argue against it. I'm asking about the S an I.
With that logic of "we don't know, but it might be out there" you could add the entire alphabet. If you don't know why a key is added, it's better not to add it.
There are other layouts to the list you posted earlier. S and I are required for some lesser known layouts like Eucalyn and THE-1.
The question should be are they too rare to consider supporting, and have I supported them correctly elsewhere in the kits, not whether they exist.
The S and I will stay for the time being.
There are other layouts to the list you posted earlier. S and I are required for some lesser known layouts like Eucalyn and THE-1.
The question should be are they too rare to consider supporting, and have I supported them correctly elsewhere in the kits, not whether they exist.
The S and I will stay for the time being.
Actually I guess these 2 could work also in the ISO kit, in order not to duplicate them for North and South: if I remember correctly ,; and .: are present in a lot of European layouts. I can at least recall: Italy, Germany, Spain, Netherlands (I think) and all 3 Scandinavian countries plus Finland.
Actually I guess these 2 could work also in the ISO kit, in order not to duplicate them for North and South: if I remember correctly ,; and .: are present in a lot of European layouts. I can at least recall: Italy, Germany, Spain, Netherlands (I think) and all 3 Scandinavian countries plus Finland.
I second this, in order to have a complete italian set you'd have to get both the North and South kits for how they are organized now. Imo putting the two keys in the ISO kit would be the most optimized solution.
Keeping a close eye on this IC, this set is going to be really cool :thumb:
Actually I guess these 2 could work also in the ISO kit, in order not to duplicate them for North and South: if I remember correctly ,; and .: are present in a lot of European layouts. I can at least recall: Italy, Germany, Spain, Netherlands (I think) and all 3 Scandinavian countries plus Finland.
I second this, in order to have a complete italian set you'd have to get both the North and South kits for how they are organized now. Imo putting the two keys in the ISO kit would be the most optimized solution.
Keeping a close eye on this IC, this set is going to be really cool :thumb:
I hope that a different solution for Italians may be implemented, but not moving two keys out of the North kit to the UK kit.
I hope that a different solution for Italians may be implemented, but not moving two keys out of the North kit to the UK kit.
Here's another good reference:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/gPIozqv.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/XO0q02x.png)
Of course, keys that are already included in the iso_terminal_and_uk and alphas kits (such as the mods and <>, \|) — as well as keys that differ only in row but otherwise have the same legends — should be omitted.
Don't worry guys, the missing keys from the south kit is an unintentional mistake :)
My brain loses track sometimes :p It will be fixed!
Am I completely lost or were there iso enter keys in the mods kits before? Or could they be tossed into the north kit as well? It's a bit of a chore having to get another kit where you only want the one key because I'm sensing the price of the UK iso kit is going to be more than paying slightly more for a north kit with the ISO enters.
My understanding is that the ISO kit has been separated from the other modifier sets for modularity. The inclusion of the UK kit in the same one, while it is not required for all ISO users, makes the ISO kit a full one for UK users. Those of us that are not UK's may feel about buying those keys a burden. But we should consider that most Norde kits usually include UK keys. This ISO kit is unique due to the three different mods designs, and then, I think that the current solution is the more sensible one.
My understanding is that the ISO kit has been separated from the other modifier sets for modularity. The inclusion of the UK kit in the same one, while it is not required for all ISO users, makes the ISO kit a full one for UK users. Those of us that are not UK's may feel about buying those keys a burden. But we should consider that most Norde kits usually include UK keys. This ISO kit is unique due to the three different mods designs, and then, I think that the current solution is the more sensible one.
My understanding is that the ISO kit has been separated from the other modifier sets for modularity. The inclusion of the UK kit in the same one, while it is not required for all ISO users, makes the ISO kit a full one for UK users. Those of us that are not UK's may feel about buying those keys a burden. But we should consider that most Norde kits usually include UK keys. This ISO kit is unique due to the three different mods designs, and then, I think that the current solution is the more sensible one.
I don't understand - if all international kit buyers are expected to buy the ISO kit anyway, how is that more sensible than adding the modifiers to each international kit? While the amount of extra keys may be small, it's an extra kit and an extra level of complexity to anyone looking to buy. I don't think there's a very large amount of people who would buy the North or South kit without needing the ISO enter.
Weeeeeeeeeeeell... we could dispense with the ISO Enter key by going ISANSI and replacing the 1.0 movable key (Ç in the Spanish layout) with a 1.5U equivalent. So buh-bye ISO Enter, hellay one special key per supported national layout... this would actually be worse for kitting (and that's without actually considering if the change is good — some national layouts designed for ISO become quite uncomfortable as ISANSI).Yeah lets get back to realistic kits shall we, the ISO enter shape is what we are used to, it's a good part of why we find ANSI uncomfortable.
My understanding is that the ISO kit has been separated from the other modifier sets for modularity. The inclusion of the UK kit in the same one, while it is not required for all ISO users, makes the ISO kit a full one for UK users. Those of us that are not UK's may feel about buying those keys a burden. But we should consider that most Norde kits usually include UK keys. This ISO kit is unique due to the three different mods designs, and then, I think that the current solution is the more sensible one.
My understanding is that the ISO kit has been separated from the other modifier sets for modularity. The inclusion of the UK kit in the same one, while it is not required for all ISO users, makes the ISO kit a full one for UK users. Those of us that are not UK's may feel about buying those keys a burden. But we should consider that most Norde kits usually include UK keys. This ISO kit is unique due to the three different mods designs, and then, I think that the current solution is the more sensible one.
Actually, as a potential ISO+South buyer, I would not find it anything wrong in this approach if the price sit is reasonable.Yes, that's a fair point. If there's no price difference between getting alphas, mods, north and UK ISO or getting just alphas, mods and north then obiously it doesn't make a difference. I'm just assuming this means buying an additional kit for the price of what a kit usually costs on top of everything else. Which obviously can be a completely incorrect assumption from my part. If it doesn't make a difference on pricing then I obviously couldn't care less where exactly the keys are :)
Guess it’s the key factor: in order to state if it makes sense or not we should know the prices, otherwise any statement is quite inconsistent.
If, say, I have to pay X for the ISO and 1.1X for the South (or North), then yes, I would fell like I’m actually financing the feasibility for English ISO only users.
But if the price ratio is about reasonable then paying, say, X+3,5X (for ISO+South) or paying 4,5X (South with included ISO) is just the same for me.
I love everything about this set, I'm just not a big fan of this ALPHA<->MOD separation. Would be great if the ALPHAS would be available in the same color as the mods, especially for non-standard layouts.
your claim was that tuhna covers everything, that was what i argued against. i have disproven your logic, because i need an e , even tho i dont use BEPO. And than i extented it, that i can imagin that there might be cases for the s and i, which OP confirmed. It just made me angry that people think there is only the english layouts and disregard all else. sorry i had to vent there for a bit.
That's fair feedback guys I'll look to making the north and south complete in their own right :)Yep, that's good.
Anyway, what are your thoughts on flipping the legends around (\ | instead of | \) like I suggested here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=108326.msg2954435#msg2954435)? :)
That's fair feedback guys I'll look to making the north and south complete in their own right :)
Sorry for the dumb question, but could you explain how the international kits work ? I don't see anything there supporting ISO-FR.
Nonetheless, I'm in :D
Would be nice if there could be blank sets for non standard layouts.
It's possible to offer an ISO-DE Kit?
Currently you would have to purchase the iso and nord kit which contain keycaps that are not needed
It's possible to offer an ISO-DE Kit?
Currently you would have to purchase the iso and nord kit which contain keycaps that are not needed
It is improbable that an ISO-DE set would reach MoQ to be made; besides, it shares keys with other European keyboard layouts. Therefore the solution is to join as many "minority" layouts as possible in comprehensive kits that have a better chance to get enough demand to be made. I hope that explains the logic behind why you "have" to buy keys that you do not need.
It's possible to offer an ISO-DE Kit?
Currently you would have to purchase the iso and nord kit which contain keycaps that are not needed
It is improbable that an ISO-DE set would reach MoQ to be made; besides, it shares keys with other European keyboard layouts. Therefore the solution is to join as many "minority" layouts as possible in comprehensive kits that have a better chance to get enough demand to be made. I hope that explains the logic behind why you "have" to buy keys that you do not need.
That's not how KAT/KAM MOQs work though. There's one MOQ for number of key units in the entire buy, not on a per-kit basis.
It's possible to offer an ISO-DE Kit?
Currently you would have to purchase the iso and nord kit which contain keycaps that are not needed
It is improbable that an ISO-DE set would reach MoQ to be made; besides, it shares keys with other European keyboard layouts. Therefore the solution is to join as many "minority" layouts as possible in comprehensive kits that have a better chance to get enough demand to be made. I hope that explains the logic behind why you "have" to buy keys that you do not need.
That's not how KAT/KAM MOQs work though. There's one MOQ for number of key units in the entire buy, not on a per-kit basis.
MOQ for Keyreative works for units in a kit, the problem here is not the keys in a kit, its the number of kits which if really high become a problem for vendors because they now have to handle a lot more skus, so you need to have a balance between number of kits and keys in each kit to be able to have as much compat as possible, thats why most sets do a French/South/North kit for foreign layouts.
MOQ for Keyreative works for units in a kit, the problem here is not the keys in a kit, its the number of kits which if really high become a problem for vendors because they now have to handle a lot more skus, so you need to have a balance between number of kits and keys in each kit to be able to have as much compat as possible, thats why most sets do a French/South/North kit for foreign layouts.This has always confused me about KAT/KAM. It makes sense that the manufacturer would have the same constraints, but without individual MOQ per kit, how does the designer know when its too many kits?
KAT Monochrome which is currently running has ~55 kits. Seems you can go pretty wild, as long as vendors are willing to handle it...MOQ for Keyreative works for units in a kit, the problem here is not the keys in a kit, its the number of kits which if really high become a problem for vendors because they now have to handle a lot more skus, so you need to have a balance between number of kits and keys in each kit to be able to have as much compat as possible, thats why most sets do a French/South/North kit for foreign layouts.This has always confused me about KAT/KAM. It makes sense that the manufacturer would have the same constraints, but without individual MOQ per kit, how does the designer know when its too many kits?
KAT Monochrome which is currently running has ~55 kits. Seems you can go pretty wild, as long as vendors are willing to handle it...MOQ for Keyreative works for units in a kit, the problem here is not the keys in a kit, its the number of kits which if really high become a problem for vendors because they now have to handle a lot more skus, so you need to have a balance between number of kits and keys in each kit to be able to have as much compat as possible, thats why most sets do a French/South/North kit for foreign layouts.This has always confused me about KAT/KAM. It makes sense that the manufacturer would have the same constraints, but without individual MOQ per kit, how does the designer know when its too many kits?
Is there any chance that the ortho or ergo sets could have highlight or terminal mods?
Nice update, fun with the new Vim keys also :)
Is the vim-J a homing key? If not that's nice for people running, e.g., Colemak or Dvorak, but maybe not for the others?
Nice update, fun with the new Vim keys also :)
Is the vim-J a homing key? If not that's nice for people running, e.g., Colemak or Dvorak, but maybe not for the others?
It's supposed to be a homing key, I realised last night after I posted I forgot to add the bar (and thought no one would notice!) :-X
Huge kitting update everyone! Some highlights:
Many new kits including terminal and highlight versions of ergo and 40s_ortho.
U numbers added to kit visuals.
Legend alignments and sizing have now been carefully refined.
International kits have been fixed.
Glad to see the VIM keys added, but how about a set in the MOD Standard and MOD Highlight color schemes, too? And, move the arrows above the letters?
i would really enjoy a DSA superuser set
This would be my first drop/group buy. What's an average development time for a set like this?KAM Ghost has an estimate of an 8 month timeline, so I personally am going to expect KAM Superuser to show up at my doorstep around 1 year after the groupbuy closes
Should I be expecting this to take place in like a few months, or like a year?
Looking forward to it tho! :)
I hope that the colors do not differ too much from the renderings
So, I know a lot of changes have been made to the kits already, but I'll still try my luck : would it be possible to add the necessary keys to one of the international kits to have something similar to this : https://i.imgur.com/n3XpRDu.png
Thanks again for all the great work, and as I said, I'll be in anyway ;)
So, I know a lot of changes have been made to the kits already, but I'll still try my luck : would it be possible to add the necessary keys to one of the international kits to have something similar to this : https://i.imgur.com/n3XpRDu.png (https://i.imgur.com/n3XpRDu.png)
Thanks again for all the great work, and as I said, I'll be in anyway ;)
Which keys are you missing and for which language/layout? It's possible something has been omitted by accident again (although I swear I checked everything).
Which keys are you missing and for which language/layout? It's possible something has been omitted by accident again (although I swear I checked everything).
QuoteWhich keys are you missing and for which language/layout? It's possible something has been omitted by accident again (although I swear I checked everything).
I'm sure you did, didn't wanna put that into question at all :) but as someone pointed out in the thread, apparently ISO-FR and ISO-DE are different from INTL north or south. What I basically miss is the Apple ISO-FR layout :Show Image(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Haf39470fd8b342d999b8ad22f1049b48r/AZERTY-French-EU-UK-ISO-Layout-Keyboard-Stickers-Silicone-Keyboard-Cover-For-Macbook-12-New-Macbook.jpg_960x960.jpg)
Now I'm sure some stuff here is too specific to Apple, but I think R1 and R4 are pretty standard ISO-FR.
The referred kit covers languages not addressed by KAM SU, like Spanish. There may be others but SP is the one that I can spot at first sight. I had the same question as the OP.
QuoteWhich keys are you missing and for which language/layout? It's possible something has been omitted by accident again (although I swear I checked everything).
I'm sure you did, didn't wanna put that into question at all :) but as someone pointed out in the thread, apparently ISO-FR and ISO-DE are different from INTL north or south. What I basically miss is the Apple ISO-FR layout :Show Image(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Haf39470fd8b342d999b8ad22f1049b48r/AZERTY-French-EU-UK-ISO-Layout-Keyboard-Stickers-Silicone-Keyboard-Cover-For-Macbook-12-New-Macbook.jpg_960x960.jpg)
Now I'm sure some stuff here is too specific to Apple, but I think R1 and R4 are pretty standard ISO-FR.
I'm surprised I haven't seen this come up yet, but as you are using a mono space font, would not a mono legends kit (numbers and symbols and special characters) be perfect for it? On an ortholinear or staggered columnar board every legend would be aligned perfectly, just like you'd expect with a mono space font. I don't see any ortho renders, and the effect is not as noticable on a row staggered keyboard. That's the one thing stopping me from being in on this set.
I'm probably in the extreme minority, but is there a chance to add an ortho 60% kit with blank keycaps in the Pantone 4280 C color?
I'm surprised I haven't seen this come up yet, but as you are using a mono space font, would not a mono legends kit (numbers and symbols and special characters) be perfect for it? On an ortholinear or staggered columnar board every legend would be aligned perfectly, just like you'd expect with a mono space font. I don't see any ortho renders, and the effect is not as noticable on a row staggered keyboard. That's the one thing stopping me from being in on this set.
Please no. Mono legend does not make sense for AltGr symbols. All international keys are downgraded grotesque.
I'm probably in the extreme minority, but is there a chance to add an ortho 60% kit with blank keycaps in the Pantone 4280 C color?
I would be in too. I would love to have this set for my preonic, but only if it would be possible to have all keys in one color, since the mod - alphas separation looks kind of weird on my layout.
Edit: A few keys appear to be missing, though, e.g. |°¬, ´¨, -_, '?/.
FreshFromTheGrave, I suggest cross-referencing the South kit with this (http://www.farah.cl/Keyboardery/Possible-International-Kits-for-Custom-Sets/#BRESLAPTIT) if you haven't already.
I'm surprised I haven't seen this come up yet, but as you are using a mono space font, would not a mono legends kit (numbers and symbols and special characters) be perfect for it? On an ortholinear or staggered columnar board every legend would be aligned perfectly, just like you'd expect with a mono space font. I don't see any ortho renders, and the effect is not as noticable on a row staggered keyboard. That's the one thing stopping me from being in on this set.I would love mono legends, too. Though I would guess there isn’t enough interest.
I'm surprised I haven't seen this come up yet, but as you are using a mono space font, would not a mono legends kit (numbers and symbols and special characters) be perfect for it? On an ortholinear or staggered columnar board every legend would be aligned perfectly, just like you'd expect with a mono space font. I don't see any ortho renders, and the effect is not as noticable on a row staggered keyboard. That's the one thing stopping me from being in on this set.
Please no. Mono legend does not make sense for AltGr symbols. All international keys are downgraded grotesque.
I mean, you're not forced to buy it? I'm just sharing something I thought would look good.
I'm surprised I haven't seen this come up yet, but as you are using a mono space font, would not a mono legends kit (numbers and symbols and special characters) be perfect for it? On an ortholinear or staggered columnar board every legend would be aligned perfectly, just like you'd expect with a mono space font. I don't see any ortho renders, and the effect is not as noticable on a row staggered keyboard. That's the one thing stopping me from being in on this set.
Please no. Mono legend does not make sense for AltGr symbols. All international keys are downgraded grotesque.
I mean, you're not forced to buy it? I'm just sharing something I thought would look good.
Sorry, my bad for expressing my opinion, just as you did. :))
But you are right, I should wait to see if the set stays the way it is, or if it turns into a different animal. Just as we always do. But thank you for pointing it out.
damn i love this set, and count me in once the GB open. i just wonder how KAM profile compare to XDA?I posted a detailed comparison before in this thread.
This set is very nice! If I may provide a suggestion and it's not too late to make changes, I would very much like to see a 1.75u escape keycap to put instead of the capslock. This is considering you already have provided keycaps for vim-like hjkl controls, so being able to have a matching cap for an escape remap would be absolutely amazing!
I wouldn't want to get rid of the caps lock keycap from the set, I just wanted to see the addition of a similar 1.75u escape. From what I've see , remapping the caps lock key to escape seems like a fairly common practice for users of a unix-based OS. For myself, I find capslock hardly ever used.This set is very nice! If I may provide a suggestion and it's not too late to make changes, I would very much like to see a 1.75u escape keycap to put instead of the capslock. This is considering you already have provided keycaps for vim-like hjkl controls, so being able to have a matching cap for an escape remap would be absolutely amazing!
While I do not use the caps lock key - instead, I use the control key - I do not see people who need it very happy to have it replaced by an ESC cap; that is, the first time I heard should replace the caps lock.
I wouldn't want to get rid of the caps lock keycap from the set, I just wanted to see the addition of a similar 1.75u escape. From what I've see , remapping the caps lock key to escape seems like a fairly common practice for users of a unix-based OS. For myself, I find capslock hardly ever used.This set is very nice! If I may provide a suggestion and it's not too late to make changes, I would very much like to see a 1.75u escape keycap to put instead of the capslock. This is considering you already have provided keycaps for vim-like hjkl controls, so being able to have a matching cap for an escape remap would be absolutely amazing!
While I do not use the caps lock key - instead, I use the control key - I do not see people who need it very happy to have it replaced by an ESC cap; that is, the first time I heard should replace the caps lock.
By fairly common, you mean 1 in how many? If my own anecdotal experience of some years at GH and 7k post is worth something, you are the first to mention it.Not with respect to the 1.75u caps lock key specifically, but almost all ortho sets replace the caps lock key with a 1u ESC key (and TAB) because the ESC key in the caps lock position is the default mapping for the planck and preonic.
I was indeed hesitant to use the word common, as it's far from the majority doing so and I also might have oversold i by implying the general unix user, as I suppose it more strictly applies to users of Vim. But I still believe in that regards, remapping the escape to another key is not uncommon. Doesn't have to be caps, I've also heard mentioned control, tab, jj (double tap on j) etc. I just prefer the caps key, hence my original suggestion.I wouldn't want to get rid of the caps lock keycap from the set, I just wanted to see the addition of a similar 1.75u escape. From what I've see , remapping the caps lock key to escape seems like a fairly common practice for users of a unix-based OS. For myself, I find capslock hardly ever used.This set is very nice! If I may provide a suggestion and it's not too late to make changes, I would very much like to see a 1.75u escape keycap to put instead of the capslock. This is considering you already have provided keycaps for vim-like hjkl controls, so being able to have a matching cap for an escape remap would be absolutely amazing!
While I do not use the caps lock key - instead, I use the control key - I do not see people who need it very happy to have it replaced by an ESC cap; that is, the first time I heard should replace the caps lock.
By fairly common, you mean 1 in how many? If my own anecdotal experience of some years at GH and 7k post is worth something, you are the first to mention it.
Finally time to announce! GB will be happening 1st February - 2nd March 2021!
While this may be a longer wait than some were hoping, we're doing this process right and making sure we have samples in first before running the buy :)
Finally time to announce! GB will be happening 1st February - 2nd March 2021!
While this may be a longer wait than some were hoping, we're doing this process right and making sure we have samples in first before running the buy :)
Would the prices be available soon? I have to set my 2021 keeb's budget
Would the prices be available soon? I have to set my 2021 keeb's budget
It will cost you approximately $everything
i don't like green, but i keep coming back to look at this. very matrix-y feel, and i guess it kinda looks like my zsh theme, too. the more i look at it, the more i think, dang it looks good. i'm in!
i don't like green, but i keep coming back to look at this. very matrix-y feel, and i guess it kinda looks like my zsh theme, too. the more i look at it, the more i think, dang it looks good. i'm in!
...aaand another Colevrak kit sold. ;)
Samples are IN everyone and they look fantastic!
Keyreative and zFrontier have done an exceptional job at colour matching to the Pantone swatches! I am very pleased with how these have come out, the legends are super sharp and the colours completely carry my design intention. Once again please be advised that if you do not have a capable, calibrated and profiled monitor that you may not be looking at an accurate colour. 353C green is a bit more saturated in reality and 4280C is not quite as black looking in reality.MoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/NISaOhO.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/CmmXLNo.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TKb7tYQ.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/wtu8eRz.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WCkDCX0.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/6s5PPS4.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Hdy7RHU.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ZR7aEu3.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/uNbNV1Q.jpg)
This is a beautiful set. Will it be an unlimited GB?
Set up a profile and first post just to support how awesome this set is. Amazing work, man.
See you at the group buy :)
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/NISaOhO.jpg)
Regarding KAM profile keycaps, are they all produced by a single company?Yes. KAM and KAT are made by one company, keyreative. KAM Wraith is now in production (according to a discord message posted by biip like yesterday) and should be “rolling out around Christmas-New Year”
Asking because KAM Wraith, which ran back in January, haven't even gone into production yet (does anyone know if I even went thru color matching)- NK don't have much info on their update page.
Does that mean all KAM GB sets are behind that que?
Regarding KAM profile keycaps, are they all produced by a single company?
Asking because KAM Wraith, which ran back in January, haven't even gone into production yet (does anyone know if I even went thru color matching)- NK don't have much info on their update page.
Does that mean all KAM GB sets are behind that que?
Should the ISO Enter and AltGr keys be in a separated kit? I know they were with the UK kit; but, they can be in their own module.
Should the ISO Enter and AltGr keys be in a separated kit? I know they were with the UK kit; but, they can be in their own module.
This has previously been discussed in the thread, starting somewhere around here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=108326.msg2956951#msg2956951) :) Iirc, the consensus in the end was that, since there are no drawbacks to including ISO Enter and AltGr keys in each of the int'l kits (and, in fact, there are some benefits, as Eski outlined right below the post I linked), each of the kits might as well each have their ISO Enter and AltGr keys.
I'm certain that there isn't a significant number of users that would buy more than one of the three int'l kits, so the chance for duplicate keys is pretty low. On the other hand, having the kits independent from each other may simplify the purchasing process for a lot of users.
Thank you for the information. I revisited the OP and the replicated AltGr and Enter keys seemed redundant. If I join the group, I would be one of the few that may need more than one international kíts, and getting double of triple sets of modifiers do not make sense. But, I understand the reasoning.
really wishing we could see accent color split spacebars in the spacebar kit so you could build a candybar like the one pictures w/o buying 4 kits. awesome set tho, cant wait for GB to start!Ortho 40's kit + Alphas + Numpad should work
Ortho 40's kit + Alphas + Numpad should work
The community needs to band together and speak with their wallets regarding future KAT/KAM sets. Nothing will change as long as MOQ keeps getting hit. One day MOQ will not get hit though and the hard work a designer has put into a KAT/KAM set will be all for nothing and it will not be the designers fault, other than choosing KAT/KAM as their platform. Hate to see a good idea wasted is all. Nice set. good luck.
The community needs to band together and speak with their wallets regarding future KAT/KAM sets. Nothing will change as long as MOQ keeps getting hit. One day MOQ will not get hit though and the hard work a designer has put into a KAT/KAM set will be all for nothing and it will not be the designers fault, other than choosing KAT/KAM as their platform. Hate to see a good idea wasted is all. Nice set. good luck.
wait, what's this regarding?
KAT/KAM is absurdly behind schedule but yet people are still pumping out ICs...why? I honestly can not figure out why a designer would want to put their name behind a set that they will recieve backlash from the participants of. The gb is going to already be behind schedule before it even closes.
Unless of course some designers are affiliated with keyreative, then it all makes sense.
The community needs to band together and speak with their wallets regarding future KAT/KAM sets. Nothing will change as long as MOQ keeps getting hit. One day MOQ will not get hit though and the hard work a designer has put into a KAT/KAM set will be all for nothing and it will not be the designers fault, other than choosing KAT/KAM as their platform. Hate to see a good idea wasted is all. Nice set. good luck.
wait, what's this regarding?
KAT/KAM is absurdly behind schedule but yet people are still pumping out ICs...why? I honestly can not figure out why a designer would want to put their name behind a set that they will recieve backlash from the participants of. The gb is going to already be behind schedule before it even closes. Unless of course some designers are affiliated with keyreative, then it all makes sense.
The community needs to band together and speak with their wallets regarding future KAT/KAM sets. Nothing will change as long as MOQ keeps getting hit. One day MOQ will not get hit though and the hard work a designer has put into a KAT/KAM set will be all for nothing and it will not be the designers fault, other than choosing KAT/KAM as their platform. Hate to see a good idea wasted is all. Nice set. good luck.
wait, what's this regarding?
KAT/KAM is absurdly behind schedule but yet people are still pumping out ICs...why? I honestly can not figure out why a designer would want to put their name behind a set that they will recieve backlash from the participants of. The gb is going to already be behind schedule before it even closes. Unless of course some designers are affiliated with keyreative, then it all makes sense.
You seem to be peddling this conspiracy theory in multiple KAT/KAM IC/GB threads. Do you honestly think that the only possible explanation is that the designers are somehow "affiliated" with Keyreative?
So I guess this is just the state of the hobby now. We're just that desperate that we have to support bad business practices? No wonder everything is delayed, there are no repercussions.
Designers are pushing sets for a profile that is currently 18 months lead time without mentioning that anywhere in the IC/GB. Designers are also devoting a significant amount of time to marketing the sets. KAT Cyperspace was the same way. I don't know what is worse, an admittedly self-made conspiracy theory that the manufacturer is funding the marketing for sets like this, or that the community is doing it to itself. So much greed.
So I guess this is just the state of the hobby now. We're just that desperate that we have to support bad business practices? No wonder everything is delayed, there are no repercussions.
...
So much greed.
So much greed.
So I guess this is just the state of the hobby now. We're just that desperate that we have to support bad business practices? No wonder everything is delayed, there are no repercussions.
...
So much greed.
What are you on about? There’s a global pandemic that’s mucking up entire economies and you want what? Keyboard fanatics to say “hold up! I refuse to accommodate this! I shall withhold my support, financial or otherwise, unless keycap companies overcome supply chain difficulties that others can’t!”
...Enjoy telling the people that wait 18 months for the kit that they will have to wait longer because the manufacturer did not do proper QC and that is why they are missing a key.
I think everyone knows specified timeframes are a fantasy at this point due to COVID - not just for KAT sets but for everything. We all still want to buy it anyway. So let's do it, I'm still looking forward to the set :)
Enjoy the back lash from all the ill informed new-comers that buy this kit as their first set.
...Enjoy telling the people that wait 18 months for the kit that they will have to wait longer because the manufacturer did not do proper QC and that is why they are missing a key.
Of all the things you’ve complained about, this is the only one that seems legit. Yes, Keyreative had some QC issues. As far as I know, it was only with two sets. That’s not excusing them, and it’s entirely fair to be cautious for that reason. But your gripes seem to go well beyond QC (e.g., delays) and are all equally applicable to other manufacturers, you’re just singling them out for some reason.
I all ready bought cyberspace and now this comes out. ughhhhhhhGood thing the keycap equation is n = k+1 where n is the number of keycaps you need and k is the number of keycaps you have.
I all ready bought cyberspace and now this comes out. ughhhhhhh
I'm soo interested in this! I need it now.
It seems like 40% ortholinear users kind of get screwed with the current sets. :(How so? The 40s ortho options are pretty dope imho.
If I have a planck like build I'd need to purchase the base kit plus the ortho which comes with 33 keys or more that I would never use and most likely make it cost more
I get it. I'm just saying it would be nice to not have to buy the extra keycaps that I will never use and most likely never be able to even sell.So what exactly are you asking for? Separate the 40s/ortho kit into two separate kits, one for 40s and one for ortho? You should put your request into actionable terms.
Haha your KAT Cyberspace won't be coming anywhere near February, sorry :P
Dumb question, but having never owned or used an 'ergo' keyboard I have to ask. I know that KAM is non-sculpted and caps can be moved from row to row as desired for a given size (I'm typing on a KAM set now). Is there any reason that the caps in the 'Ergo Blanks' kit wouldn't be usable as standard blanks in a non-ergo layout? And is there any difference (e.g. stem placement) between the horizontal and vertical 1.5U caps?
I don't know if there is still time for this, but can we get ESC key(s) size of a Capslock (1.75u)? This is a terminal set after all and It's quite common that people using vim/emacs map their capslock to ESC. I've been doing it for last couple years and especially on 65% keyboard. The only other 1.75u keys are 'control' from mods and 'kill' and 'mount' from novelties. I'll take the set anyway, just having nice green 1.75u ESC would be better.+1
I wouldn't want to get rid of the caps lock keycap from the set, I just wanted to see the addition of a similar 1.75u escape. From what I've see , remapping the caps lock key to escape seems like a fairly common practice for users of a unix-based OS. For myself, I find capslock hardly ever used.This set is very nice! If I may provide a suggestion and it's not too late to make changes, I would very much like to see a 1.75u escape keycap to put instead of the capslock. This is considering you already have provided keycaps for vim-like hjkl controls, so being able to have a matching cap for an escape remap would be absolutely amazing!
While I do not use the caps lock key - instead, I use the control key - I do not see people who need it very happy to have it replaced by an ESC cap; that is, the first time I heard should replace the caps lock.
By fairly common, you mean 1 in how many? If my own anecdotal experience of some years at GH and 7k post is worth something, you are the first to mention it.
Any updates on pricing
Any artisan collab planned ? :D
Any artisan collab planned ? :D
Just added ;)
I've worked together with RAMA, sending in my KAM samples to help them create the very first KAM profile RAMA cap! This new profile will be available to other designers wanting to work with RAMA in KAM going forward too.
The superuser RAMA cap will be matched to 7545 C (mods grey) and will have glow in the dark green enamel infill!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vIgHdrF.png)
The superuser RAMA cap will be matched to 7545 C (mods grey) and will have glow in the dark green enamel infill!
In light of the recent update from Keyreative that's been circulating, should we expect the GB to be delayed?
In light of the recent update from Keyreative that's been circulating, should we expect the GB to be delayed?
From what I've been told, no, we will be going ahead as planned unless it's announced otherwise :) It could also be beneficial in that by the time production rolls around for superuser, Keyreative will be using their brand new dye-sub machinery and avoid any of the problems they've been having in the past.
How long does it take a GB's set to be manufactured? I have read about a year, but not sure if it was just a rummor.
Any artisan collab planned ? :D
Just added ;)
I've worked together with RAMA, sending in my KAM samples to help them create the very first KAM profile RAMA cap! This new profile will be available to other designers wanting to work with RAMA in KAM going forward too.
The superuser RAMA cap will be matched to 7545 C (mods grey) and will have glow in the dark green enamel infill!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vIgHdrF.png)
So happy about this set... great work! I saw it in IC and was hoping you would take it to GB. The only problem is that I want all the sets and choosing will be really tough. Thanks again for putting this together... I am all in!
[~/]> sudo changesig "KAM_Superuser"_
How is matte achieved?No these are PBT keys. The matte is achieved by the surface texture - which itself is determined by the mold surface. PBT is hard and dry to the touch.
I hope its not that rubberized layer which looks great on promo photos only but in a real life usage gets sticky and nasty over time?
Will the NovelKeys edition come with keycaps or just the board?
How is matte achieved?No these are PBT keys. The matte is achieved by the surface texture - which itself is determined by the mold surface. PBT is hard and dry to the touch.
I hope its not that rubberized layer which looks great on promo photos only but in a real life usage gets sticky and nasty over time?
I'm guessing / hoping that it is the same matte finish used for KAT. As much as I like the glossy KAM finish when it supports the design (e.g. KAM Little Pilot), imho matte is far more appropriate for this design. Looks great, feels great, can't wait.
Will the NovelKeys edition come with keycaps or just the board?
thinking it will be similar to the currently running Awaken GB, but i'm curious as well.
My worry is that it will come with standard set kits instead of a configuration. :/
I guess I can always just get a NK65 EE in Smoke Black if that will be the case.
My worry is that it will come with standard set kits instead of a configuration. :/
I guess I can always just get a NK65 EE in Smoke Black if that will be the case.
yeah except that just sold out in like 10 min a few days ago haha
My worry is that it will come with standard set kits instead of a configuration. :/
I guess I can always just get a NK65 EE in Smoke Black if that will be the case.
The NK65 superuser edition will be barebones, so it won't come with caps or switches. This means you'll be able to choose your preferred mods option rather than having it chosen for you bundled with the board :)