Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 819955 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5300 on: Sun, 17 January 2021, 22:13:15 »

As a noob in these parts, I am puzzled by the "aviator" cable with the honking big clunky connector in the middle and the tight coil.


It is just another example of feature items that are just for show. Aviator cables and artisan caps are some of the most conspicuous examples of these trends.

One could argue that they offer a convenient way of switching between USB types for different devices. I've built two aviator cables for myself for fun, they're cool... Bulky, but I have a lot of free real estate on my desk.

Lemo on the other hand looks sick, but the prices of them are outlandish.

I love coiled cables. Reminds me of rotary landlines we had growing up  :D

I use female aviator sockets mounted directly to the case on keyboards that I want to be able to swing around over my head by the cable or use them as boat anchors and have them still work. Otherwise, yeah, they're pretty pointless when you can use magnetic cables for quick switching between USB interfaces.

I've used the Fujitsu keyboard, which is generally considered to be an awful keyboard because it has a 'backwards' tactile response, and I didn't think it was so bad.

What do you mean by the Fujitsu keyboard? Fujitsu Peerless switches? I was just talking to somebody recently who runs a computer recycling/resale shop. The guy's literally been surrounded by nice vintage keyboards for years. A friend of mine that works there has had Model Ms all over the shop that everyone uses, and the owner never got into them, or any other mechanicals. All of a sudden recently he tried Fujitsu Peerless and I kid you not he's got some beat up old Fujitsu board at his computer now and is just finally starting to research all of the other things that are out there because of it. I was literally there learning of these developments because they had an IBM beamspring board there that they were selling and I had never tried one before. He hated the feel of the beamspring ... and was gushing about the cheap Peerless switches. I think Fujitsu Peerless is either loved or hated. I actually think they're kind of nice/interesting myself.


Contrary opinion: don't lube at all. Lubing is dumb. If you need to lube, you've picked a dumb switch.
i do agree there, switches should smooth out with time, if you need lube your switch is rather poor, my gat silent reds started off a bit scratchy but after about 2 months of rather heavy use only the keys i use the very least still feel a bit scratchy.
out of that experience i feel like lubing is rather a waste of time, but then in those times peoples do have time to waste.

Yes, agreed. I have never lubed a switch, and I never plan to unless I get really bored and/or try saving some really dirty Alps switches.

filco is overpriced and has terrible typing experience
realforce is ugly
topre is overrated

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I agree on Realforce and Topre, although Topre does feel great ... just not worth the buzz. My Rosewill Filco knockoff seems like a great keyboard besides the MX browns though.

Costar stabs are a nightmare. I'd rather use unlubed Cherry than Costar.

Pretty sure that is for some reason a popular opinion given cherry seems to be by far the most popular choice.

I don't see it myself, costar has the best keyfeel, I don't care about rattle.

Yes, agreed. I actually quite like rattly Costars even.

I'm not sure it's wise to out myself like this on my very first post, but here we go:

- PBT caps are overrated and chalky, broken in ABS shine is pleasant to use
- Tactile and clicky switches are both closer in feel to rubber domes than linear
- Complicated Alps really don't offer anything special over simplified Alps, and are prone to issues with key chatter that nobody likes to talk about
- The clean, crisp bottom out is one of the major benefits of mechanical boards and orings completely, totally ruin it
- Topre is an okay switch, but a realforce really shouldn't sell for even a penny over $80
- A little bit of keycap wobble actually makes for a more forgiving typing experience
- Any keyboard smaller than a 60% is a cruel, claustrophobic joke to see how many less switches you'll still pay actual money for
- Packing a separate keyboard to use with your laptop is cringey and not worth the backpack space

- I agree about PBT.
- I'm not sure where you're going with tactiles and clickies feeling closer to rubber domes than linears other than the fact that rubber domes are tactile. One could also argue that a rubber dome is closer to linear than they are to very tactile clickies, like Alps or box navies. Then there's Matias' "linears" which actually kind of have a tactile bump at the end of travel.
- That segways nicely into complicated vs simplified Alps. Have you tried SKCM blue Alps switches in perfect shape? I'm literally using some early-ish SKCM white Alps right next to some Matias switches at this very moment and these particular white Alps switches definitely have noticeable differences that some may prefer over simplified Alps. I think the difference between the two is a little blown out of proportion myself and use Matias clickies just about every day, but there's no arguing that some good SKCM blue Alps are a little more smooth/refined and bassier (for whatever that last part is worth).
- I haven't had any problems with chatter with any Alps, or derivative, boards that haven't been heavily abused (the plates usually look like they've spent some time at the bottom of the ocean in those cases). Matias actually used to be known for chatter problems, although I can't seem to find a single used board that has that problem yet.
- I agree at least partially that orings basically make mechanical boards feel like rubber domes, at least the cheap Rosewill ones I tried years ago. I think there are newer options that can get closer in feel to dampened switches though.
- Yes, Topre is overpriced and overhyped.
- I don't care about wobble one way or another unless it is so bad it is inhibiting typing accurately.
- I don't even like boards as small as 60%. I think you'll find a lot of people who agree.
- Yeah, packing a separate keyboard may be cringey, but laptops have some pretty terrible keyboards, so I might do it anyway.

I'm saying this more to vent than as an opinion. But I really wish engineers would just re-invent the stabilizer. I feel like we can do better than what we have. It is so frustrating to be putting in a ton of dialetric grease only to have my stabilizer still making ticks and rattles, meanwhile my switch has become extremely mushy. Then I have to try straightening out the wire to see if that's the cause... then maybe try putting random pieces of bandaid or foam inside the stab housing and mess that up... and then 15 other tricks people have tried to remove rattle. Or I just hit the jackpot and a stabilizer works for no apparent reason on the first try.

Please engineers... just invent a non-rattling stabilizer. Start from scratch and make a new design. We put a man on the moon, surely this can be done.
rattle is like a man's baldness, it's ugly and frustrating but not harming anyone, so yeah, nobody gonna cure it properly

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Or, if you're crazy like me, you like your keyboards to be as thunderous as possible and actually like rattling noises ... and the idea of adding solenoids and buzzers.

I might tend to agree, but it usually comes at the unacceptable penalty of altering the shape of Backspace and/or Right Shift.

I'd happily exile the \| button to a different layer for a big ass enter key.
When I think about it, I might be able to alter a Big ass enter key to fit over the \| switch's stem, wish there was a Cherry profile one though.

Oddly, I don't mind the 1u backspace keys ... although I hate ISO enter keys. Long live the big ass enter. I wish it were easier to find new production caps for those poor old boards.

Offline Arch4Life

  • Posts: 40
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5301 on: Sun, 17 January 2021, 23:35:12 »
im with you on the thunderous one, I have a board with kailh box navy, durock stock stab, no pcb foam, no case foam, tray mounted, alu plate, it's as loud as ya can imagine lol, sometimes I do enjoy it, especially on a sad winter day
« Last Edit: Sun, 17 January 2021, 23:39:00 by Arch4Life »

Offline bkrownd

  • Posts: 121
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5302 on: Mon, 18 January 2021, 00:21:40 »

I'd happily exile the \| button to a different layer for a big ass enter key.

Why does your wee little pinkie need a big ass enter key? 
My Group Buys: SA Nightlight, GMK Tuzi, ePBT RamenStop, GMK Iceberg, IFK Peach Tea, KAT Space Dust, GMK Stargaze
Non-GB sets: Akko World Tour Tokyo (V1), Coral Sea, SA Lime
Boards: GMMK TKL, Akko 3084, Kono 84

Offline Arch4Life

  • Posts: 40
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5303 on: Mon, 18 January 2021, 02:43:40 »

I'd happily exile the \| button to a different layer for a big ass enter key.

Why does your wee little pinkie need a big ass enter key?
for the glorious of Satan of course my friend

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 4835
  • Location: Koriko
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5304 on: Mon, 18 January 2021, 04:52:36 »
Probably have been already said, but IMO big ass enter key is the superior enter key
I don't mind the shape. However, most keyboards with the key that I have tried stabilise they key only on the vertical or on the horizontal, and so suffered from binding if pressed in the "wrong" spot.
On those that did have both a vertical and a horizontal stabiliser, pulling and replacing the key wasn't easy.
Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
-- Arthur Miller

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 175
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5305 on: Mon, 18 January 2021, 06:59:47 »
Probably have been already said, but IMO big ass enter key is the superior enter key
I don't mind the shape. However, most keyboards with the key that I have tried stabilise they key only on the vertical or on the horizontal, and so suffered from binding if pressed in the "wrong" spot.
On those that did have both a vertical and a horizontal stabiliser, pulling and replacing the key wasn't easy.
I have a modern board with a big ass enter key (Celeritas II).
It has rather unique way to mount the keycap, replacing it is easy, just a matter of pulling hard enough.

A bit rattly, but very smooth with zero binding (but that could be due to the KB using very smooth switches).

Offline funkmon

  • Posts: 424
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5306 on: Mon, 18 January 2021, 21:51:47 »
I might tend to agree, but it usually comes at the unacceptable penalty of altering the shape of Backspace and/or Right Shift.

This is why the Focus layout is the superior keyboard layout.


Offline ActualDinosaur

  • Posts: 2
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5307 on: Tue, 19 January 2021, 00:42:39 »
This is why the Focus layout is the superior keyboard layout.
Excellent layout.

- I'm not sure where you're going with tactiles and clickies feeling closer to rubber domes than linears other than the fact that rubber domes are tactile. One could also argue that a rubber dome is closer to linear than they are to very tactile clickies, like Alps or box navies. Then there's Matias' "linears" which actually kind of have a tactile bump at the end of travel.
- That segways nicely into complicated vs simplified Alps. Have you tried SKCM blue Alps switches in perfect shape? I'm literally using some early-ish SKCM white Alps right next to some Matias switches at this very moment and these particular white Alps switches definitely have noticeable differences that some may prefer over simplified Alps. I think the difference between the two is a little blown out of proportion myself and use Matias clickies just about every day, but there's no arguing that some good SKCM blue Alps are a little more smooth/refined and bassier (for whatever that last part is worth).
- I haven't had any problems with chatter with any Alps, or derivative, boards that haven't been heavily abused (the plates usually look like they've spent some time at the bottom of the ocean in those cases). Matias actually used to be known for chatter problems, although I can't seem to find a single used board that has that problem yet.
I've never felt a rubber dome as butter smooth as a linear. I assume the way they collapse makes it impossible. You can still put a click bar on a rubber dome if you really want. Not saying they are good or bad, just that in my opinion they're the hardest to emulate with rubber domes.

As far as Alps / Matias, I can confirm that I had a bit of a chattery Matias board. Never had the issue with simplified Alps, but maybe it's not SKCM specific. I did an Alps64 build with a handful of really clean blue alps, and beautiful switch I agree. I simply believe that the skcm switch plate is a less robust connection. Those tolerances are tight, but like, '80's tight'. Mine like a good blast of compressed air to keep them happy. Never had to do that for any other switches. Not a big deal, but something of note.

 
- Yeah, packing a separate keyboard may be cringey, but laptops have some pretty terrible keyboards, so I might do it anyway.
I certainly can't stop you, truth is I rarely even pack a computer anymore.


Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5308 on: Tue, 19 January 2021, 10:54:24 »
This is why the Focus layout is the superior keyboard layout.
Excellent layout.

Indeed

- I'm not sure where you're going with tactiles and clickies feeling closer to rubber domes than linears other than the fact that rubber domes are tactile. One could also argue that a rubber dome is closer to linear than they are to very tactile clickies, like Alps or box navies. Then there's Matias' "linears" which actually kind of have a tactile bump at the end of travel.
- That segways nicely into complicated vs simplified Alps. Have you tried SKCM blue Alps switches in perfect shape? I'm literally using some early-ish SKCM white Alps right next to some Matias switches at this very moment and these particular white Alps switches definitely have noticeable differences that some may prefer over simplified Alps. I think the difference between the two is a little blown out of proportion myself and use Matias clickies just about every day, but there's no arguing that some good SKCM blue Alps are a little more smooth/refined and bassier (for whatever that last part is worth).
- I haven't had any problems with chatter with any Alps, or derivative, boards that haven't been heavily abused (the plates usually look like they've spent some time at the bottom of the ocean in those cases). Matias actually used to be known for chatter problems, although I can't seem to find a single used board that has that problem yet.
I've never felt a rubber dome as butter smooth as a linear. I assume the way they collapse makes it impossible. You can still put a click bar on a rubber dome if you really want. Not saying they are good or bad, just that in my opinion they're the hardest to emulate with rubber domes.

As far as Alps / Matias, I can confirm that I had a bit of a chattery Matias board. Never had the issue with simplified Alps, but maybe it's not SKCM specific. I did an Alps64 build with a handful of really clean blue alps, and beautiful switch I agree. I simply believe that the skcm switch plate is a less robust connection. Those tolerances are tight, but like, '80's tight'. Mine like a good blast of compressed air to keep them happy. Never had to do that for any other switches. Not a big deal, but something of note.

So you're talking more about smoothness than tactility? I would try Topre if you haven't, very smooth. Some of the older dome with slider boards are quite nice too. This conflates the topic even more in my mind though. Those SKCM blues you've got are a little scratchy then, I imagine? Most seem to agree that once they become rough, there's no putting that genie back in the bottle. When they're in good shape, they're about as buttery smooth as you can get and still have a tactile event. Have you ever tried capacitive buckling spring, beam springs or box switches? They're all very smooth clicky switches. I would put Matias in the same category, but that may be dependent on condition, like Alps. I don't go down the rabbit hole of lubricants, but I haven't tried any stock linears that I could definitively say are smoother than the smoothest of clickies.

Otherwise, am I misunderstanding the comparison you're trying to make?

I have had one Matias board that I bought new, and it did chatter a bit when I first got it. I don't count that because it cleared up entirely within a week of constant use. One of the more convincing theories on this to me are that maybe Matias was soldering switches on when their contacts weren't perfectly straight, for a period of time. It would explain why reflowing the solder on the legs and/or replacing the switch seems to almost always fixes it. Matias switches are actually currently manufactured by Gaote/Outemu, but they're essentially simplified Alps. I don't think I have any Alps-branded simplified Alps besides in an old Matias board that I haven't really used yet.

Have you had problems with chatter with SKCM/SKCL? I think I have some yellow SKCLs that had a problem with that, but I literally could not even see the plate beneath the rust and debris on that board.

- Yeah, packing a separate keyboard may be cringey, but laptops have some pretty terrible keyboards, so I might do it anyway.
I certainly can't stop you, truth is I rarely even pack a computer anymore.

I only use my phone when there's no other reasonable option. I hate touch screens.

Offline iri

  • Posts: 960
  • Location: 'Great' Britain
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5309 on: Fri, 22 January 2021, 16:44:11 »
Orange Alps are hollow and don't have much to feel.

All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

Good rubber dome keyboards with stabilizers are nice.

Lubing switches seems to be an infectious disease.

The keyboard community hasn't made much progress in the past 10 years.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline bkrownd

  • Posts: 121
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5310 on: Fri, 22 January 2021, 17:42:06 »

I only use my phone when there's no other reasonable option. I hate touch screens.

Preach  on, brother...  I mostly use mine to play solitaire and rummy while waiting for the dentist.  Otherwise I ignore the stupid thing and leave it behind as much as possible.
My Group Buys: SA Nightlight, GMK Tuzi, ePBT RamenStop, GMK Iceberg, IFK Peach Tea, KAT Space Dust, GMK Stargaze
Non-GB sets: Akko World Tour Tokyo (V1), Coral Sea, SA Lime
Boards: GMMK TKL, Akko 3084, Kono 84

Offline yqqdrasil

  • Posts: 45
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5311 on: Fri, 22 January 2021, 18:53:52 »
All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

I feel like every time I go on keyboard related outlet theres a new MX switch recolour and I honestly don't get it, unless you don't plan on putting keycaps on wtf is the point in these flashy looking switches.

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 1032
  • Location: Asia
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5312 on: Fri, 22 January 2021, 23:52:27 »
All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

I feel like every time I go on keyboard related outlet theres a new MX switch recolour and I honestly don't get it, unless you don't plan on putting keycaps on wtf is the point in these flashy looking switches.

Instagram bragging rights?

Offline S61

  • Posts: 29
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5313 on: Sat, 23 January 2021, 01:10:29 »
Currently using the 1800mini Layout, I can click back and enter easily without symbol key, Num Pad area good at modify software parameters,the length is about the same as the 65% layout

Offline iri

  • Posts: 960
  • Location: 'Great' Britain
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5314 on: Sat, 23 January 2021, 06:10:03 »
Btw, stuff like Holy Pandas also falls into the 'MX clones' category.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Arch4Life

  • Posts: 40
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5315 on: Sat, 23 January 2021, 06:32:02 »
Btw, stuff like Holy Pandas also falls into the 'MX clones' category.
holy panda is not interesting tho

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Offline iri

  • Posts: 960
  • Location: 'Great' Britain
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5316 on: Sat, 23 January 2021, 07:03:58 »
So that's actually a popular opinion?
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline iri

  • Posts: 960
  • Location: 'Great' Britain
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5317 on: Sat, 23 January 2021, 12:29:58 »
SteelSeries Apex Pro is great because it's a broadly available, affordable keyboard with Hall Effect switches.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Arch4Life

  • Posts: 40
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5318 on: Sat, 23 January 2021, 18:39:02 »
So that's actually a popular opinion?
probably not, holy panda is super hyped, it's like 99% of  people who care about keyboard would recommend it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6119
  • Location: 3555'N, 8353'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5319 on: Sat, 23 January 2021, 20:56:54 »
SteelSeries Apex Pro is great because it's a broadly available, affordable keyboard with Hall Effect switches.

Yo!
Has Chyros reviewed these?
"We're playing for real here."
- Joe Biden 2021-09-10

Offline iri

  • Posts: 960
  • Location: 'Great' Britain
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5320 on: Sun, 24 January 2021, 06:36:52 »
SteelSeries Apex Pro is great because it's a broadly available, affordable keyboard with Hall Effect switches.

Yo!
Has Chyros reviewed these?
Yes
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline iri

  • Posts: 960
  • Location: 'Great' Britain
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5321 on: Sun, 24 January 2021, 06:50:46 »
So that's actually a popular opinion?
probably not, holy panda is super hyped, it's like 99% of  people who care about keyboard would recommend it
From Amazon reviews:

Quote
It is a really nice feeling switch, but my springs came in different sizes. However, if I didn't open them up, I wouldn't have noticed.

Quote
I open them up to lube and film and notice more than half of the switch has broken legs.
Returning this broken product and I'll just stick to T1 switches from now on.

FYI, this issue has also been reported on DROP's website as well.

Quote
broken stem legs, unequal spring lengths, and poor packaging causing the switches to look like they exploded in the box

Quote
Pack of 110 pieces had 21 with broken legs off the tactile stem

I think I'll stick to my very imperfect German made switches :D
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Rob27shred

  • Posts: 1219
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Insane in the Membrane! 👻
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5322 on: Sun, 24 January 2021, 07:53:40 »
So that's actually a popular opinion?
probably not, holy panda is super hyped, it's like 99% of  people who care about keyboard would recommend it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Maybe like 2, 3 years ago HPs were super hyped. At this point though I think the whole "biggest bump" craze is coming to an end. Linear switches have cemented their place as kings of the MX realm & most of the hyped MX tactiles that came out recently have used a medium sized bump as a selling point.

Offline Arch4Life

  • Posts: 40
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5323 on: Sun, 24 January 2021, 08:21:55 »
So that's actually a popular opinion?
probably not, holy panda is super hyped, it's like 99% of  people who care about keyboard would recommend it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Maybe like 2, 3 years ago HPs were super hyped. At this point though I think the whole "biggest bump" craze is coming to an end. Linear switches have cemented their place as kings of the MX realm & most of the hyped MX tactiles that came out recently have used a medium sized bump as a selling point.
well, HP is still highly hyped here in Asia, tbh I dont like tactile switch, linear is better

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 175
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5324 on: Sun, 24 January 2021, 13:24:56 »
Orange Alps are hollow and don't have much to feel.

All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

Good rubber dome keyboards with stabilizers are nice.

Lubing switches seems to be an infectious disease.

The keyboard community hasn't made much progress in the past 10 years.
Only real innovation is pushed by Kailh, revived the click switches with the clickbar, provided actual redesign of MX style switches (BOX). 
The rest are just recolors of linears or HP stems inside different housings.

Offline pmdbt

  • Posts: 60
  • Location: Los Angeles
    • KeebsForAll Storefront
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5325 on: Sun, 24 January 2021, 14:56:44 »
Btw, stuff like Holy Pandas also falls into the 'MX clones' category.

You might be onto something because for the life of me, I can't tell that much difference between my holy pandas and my gateron milky browns... To say I was disappointed would be an understatement.
ID80, Rama M65-A, Black Inks V2

Offline hmmmwhatsthis

  • Posts: 53
  • no
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5326 on: Sun, 24 January 2021, 20:15:49 »
Btw, stuff like Holy Pandas also falls into the 'MX clones' category.

You might be onto something because for the life of me, I can't tell that much difference between my holy pandas and my gateron milky browns... To say I was disappointed would be an understatement.

90% of this community is now hype-train subjectivity vs. tangible difference.

Offline NoteMakoti

  • Posts: 106
  • for sale, baby shoes, never worn
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5327 on: Mon, 25 January 2021, 12:21:27 »
I honestly feel like Mechs are in a bubble right now, and that the current stream of near-identical boards and dozens of keysets a month isn't something that can last for much longer. Once a stable library of in-stock keebs/switches/PCBs/keysets hit the market and people shift away from making their desk the focus of their hobby spending, the bottom will fall out.

Btw, stuff like Holy Pandas also falls into the 'MX clones' category.

You might be onto something because for the life of me, I can't tell that much difference between my holy pandas and my gateron milky browns... To say I was disappointed would be an understatement.

I can't imagine thinking those two switches felt alike. :eek:
MX linears are all way more alike than different, but tactiles are at least slightly more diverse.

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 175
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5328 on: Mon, 25 January 2021, 14:24:50 »
People need to stop with the preference thing, especially with tactiles. 

Offline Kaidesk_Lee

  • * Vendor
  • Posts: 17
  • Location: United Kingdom
    • Kaidesk
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5329 on: Mon, 25 January 2021, 15:00:01 »
Not sure if this counts as unpopular, but I like heavy switch springs. I put a 150g spring in my space bar switch just to test an aluminium prototype, and never replaced it. Went back to the normal ABS space bar, then it took about an hour of typinglikethis to get used to. Now it feels great, I can really attack it.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5330 on: Mon, 25 January 2021, 18:14:08 »
Orange Alps are hollow and don't have much to feel.

Never tried them, don't have much reason to.

All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

Good rubber dome keyboards with stabilizers are nice.

Lubing switches seems to be an infectious disease.

The keyboard community hasn't made much progress in the past 10 years.

Agreed.

I only use my phone when there's no other reasonable option. I hate touch screens.

Preach  on, brother...  I mostly use mine to play solitaire and rummy while waiting for the dentist.  Otherwise I ignore the stupid thing and leave it behind as much as possible.

 :thumb:

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 904
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5331 on: Tue, 26 January 2021, 23:07:30 »
Orange Alps are hollow and don't have much to feel.

All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

Good rubber dome keyboards with stabilizers are nice.

Lubing switches seems to be an infectious disease.

The keyboard community hasn't made much progress in the past 10 years.

What do you think are some examples of good rubber-dome keyboards besides Topre?

Offline funkmon

  • Posts: 424
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5332 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 01:16:23 »
A lot of old dome with sliders aren't bad, I have a quite good BTC dome with slider and an NMB dome with slider that are nice. But like $30 nice, not $100 nice.

Offline yui

  • Posts: 986
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5333 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 01:30:06 »
What do you think are some examples of good rubber-dome keyboards besides Topre?
isn't this question nonsensical, some peoples rather type on rubber domes, find that mushy bottom out comfortable, so for them mechs and topre offers not much benefits. the thing is that all of that is rather very subjective, so even if someone like a 3 usd random keyboard better than a 300 usd topre does not mean that you will find it nice, "good" is not something that really applies there, the good keyboard is the one you enjoy typing on, be it a 3000usd beamspring, 500usd topre or 3usd rubber dome.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 1032
  • Location: Asia
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5334 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 03:06:28 »
A lot of old dome with sliders aren't bad, I have a quite good BTC dome with slider and an NMB dome with slider that are nice. But like $30 nice, not $100 nice.

I probably paid about $50-60 for my BTC including the converters. I do not consider this a bargain. If it was $30, it would have been a good deal.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5335 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 09:23:25 »
What do you think are some examples of good rubber-dome keyboards besides Topre?
isn't this question nonsensical, some peoples rather type on rubber domes, find that mushy bottom out comfortable, so for them mechs and topre offers not much benefits. the thing is that all of that is rather very subjective, so even if someone like a 3 usd random keyboard better than a 300 usd topre does not mean that you will find it nice, "good" is not something that really applies there, the good keyboard is the one you enjoy typing on, be it a 3000usd beamspring, 500usd topre or 3usd rubber dome.

Almost everything old at least seemed to make some attempt at an enjoyable typing experience up to at least the early 90s.

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 904
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5336 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 09:42:26 »
Yes, I used older rubber-dome keyboards and had no problems. I just wonder what's in current production where the manufacturer attempted to create an enjoyable typing experience.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5337 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 11:28:28 »
Yes, I used older rubber-dome keyboards and had no problems. I just wonder what's in current production where the manufacturer attempted to create an enjoyable typing experience.

I think there are some modern "mem-chanical" keyboards that sort of resurrected the idea of domes with sliders. They're usually some kind of budget-oriented, commercialized, mass market "gaming keyboard".

I think I very briefly felt one of the Razer dome boards, and it was ok? Better than what typically comes free with some random desktop computer.

Offline Rob27shred

  • Posts: 1219
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Insane in the Membrane! 👻
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5338 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 11:40:32 »
Orange Alps are hollow and don't have much to feel.

All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

Good rubber dome keyboards with stabilizers are nice.

Lubing switches seems to be an infectious disease.

The keyboard community hasn't made much progress in the past 10 years.

What do you think are some examples of good rubber-dome keyboards besides Topre?

As many others have mentioned BTC dome with slider, NMB dome with slider, also I'll add Scorpius dome with slider to that list.

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 175
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5339 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 12:07:48 »
Here's another one that will probably trigger a lof of linear lovers. 
Cherry stabs with the legs are far better than clipped, they're less noisy and they really dont feel mushy at all.

Offline Rob27shred

  • Posts: 1219
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Insane in the Membrane! 👻
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5340 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 13:29:33 »
Here's another one that will probably trigger a lof of linear lovers. 
Cherry stabs with the legs are far better than clipped, they're less noisy and they really dont feel mushy at all.

Honestly I think this comes down to personal preference TBH. What does blow my mind though is the band aid mod, people clip their stabs then put pieces of whatever under them when just leaving the legs on would accomplish the same feel.

Offline C1TRU5

  • Posts: 3
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5341 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 15:04:53 »
Okay here's mine.

I like low-profile switches better. I would rather have my fingers be traveling less to type each letter.

Currently still using a regular mechy though, having the satisfying feel and sound is loads better than my typing speed on a flat chicklet keyboard. But I do wish there were more options for low profile switches. What I want just doesn't seem to exist right now.
I've been thinking about figuring out how to design my own.. but I have no idea what to do after I have an actual design. I wouldn't want to spend that much time without knowing if I could actually make them.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5342 on: Wed, 27 January 2021, 15:06:40 »
Okay here's mine.

I like low-profile switches better. I would rather have my fingers be traveling less to type each letter.

Currently still using a regular mechy though, having the satisfying feel and sound is loads better than my typing speed on a flat chicklet keyboard. But I do wish there were more options for low profile switches. What I want just doesn't seem to exist right now.
I've been thinking about figuring out how to design my own.. but I have no idea what to do after I have an actual design. I wouldn't want to spend that much time without knowing if I could actually make them.

I think more people would consider this reasonable if there were enough low-profile switches. Kailh's Choc switches seem pretty nice to me, but all I care about are clickies.

Offline KimchiKardashian

  • Posts: 1
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5343 on: Thu, 28 January 2021, 02:00:43 »
Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

And art is just chemicals on a canvas!  :p
love is just chemicals in your brain.

seeing how hating on 60% keyboards is actually popular i'm gonna go and say something truly unpopular-

i love them, i think 60% are the perfect layout.

Offline yui

  • Posts: 986
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5344 on: Thu, 28 January 2021, 02:16:24 »
Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

And art is just chemicals on a canvas!  :p
love is just chemicals in your brain.

seeing how hating on 60% keyboards is actually popular i'm gonna go and say something truly unpopular-

i love them, i think 60% are the perfect layout.
i do not think peoples hate 60% per say, just that everybody and their dogs has made a 60% board and tried to sell it, while there are quite a few opensource 60% available. the market is just completely flooded and seller keeps on adding more of them, while there are almost no options for larger keyboards, so peoples who are in the market for 60% are rather content and silent, because they have plenty of options, but peoples who need a bit more start to get tiered of it.
and i would not call 60% perfect, but i can see it as a decent compromise to a lot of peoples to me perfection is 122 keys with a 7u spacebar but i still use a 60% because, well there is no options in 122%, switches are expensive and space comes at a premium (still got a 7u bar though :))

oh and artisan keycaps are more often made of resin, no? and resin is relatively extremely expensive as are molds, so although i do not want them on my boards i do understand why artisans sells them at a premium,
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5345 on: Thu, 28 January 2021, 12:27:11 »
to me perfection is 122 keys with a 7u spacebar but i still use a 60% because, well there is no options in 122%, switches are expensive and space comes at a premium (still got a 7u bar though :))

F122? M122? There have been some 122% MX-compatible board projects, haven't there?

i do not think peoples hate 60% per say

I do hate 60% myself, but I don't think that's a popular opinion. It makes sense that it would be popular for specific use cases. The problem is that as size decreases, so does overall flexibility. Those that claim otherwise are kidding themselves.

Even on the layout of the previous user of this F107, I keep getting frustrated that there's no dedicated escape or print screen keys and keep telling myself I'll fix that.

Offline funkmon

  • Posts: 424
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5346 on: Thu, 28 January 2021, 21:39:10 »
to me perfection is 122 keys with a 7u spacebar but i still use a 60% because, well there is no options in 122%, switches are expensive and space comes at a premium (still got a 7u bar though :))

F122? M122? There have been some 122% MX-compatible board projects, haven't there?


https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.0

You're welcome.

Quote
Even on the layout of the previous user of this F107, I keep getting frustrated that there's no dedicated escape or print screen keys and keep telling myself I'll fix that.

Burn it with fire man, burn it with fire. The first thing I do on weird keyboards such as these is drop the tilde. I don't use that ****. That is now an escape. Even if it sometimes still looks like a tilde, it's escape.



That thing by the F2? Escape. {}? Return.

Offline yui

  • Posts: 986
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5347 on: Fri, 29 January 2021, 01:43:41 »
F122? M122? There have been some 122% MX-compatible board projects, haven't there?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.0
You're welcome.

i know the M122, i have 4, the F122 is a bit our of my reach and i knew of the boston, but the point is that is not many options, you can find in stock at least 5 different custom ready 60% pcb + GB + pre-builts.
and the boston does not tick all my boxes :) the arrows incroching into the bottom row is a big no for me as is the lack of gaps in the winkeyless configuration

Burn it with fire man, burn it with fire. The first thing I do on weird keyboards such as these is drop the tilde. I don't use that ****. That is now an escape. Even if it sometimes still looks like a tilde, it's escape.
i had done that, and then my random password generator put a ` in my password... so now the escape is on a layer as typing the password across layers was a pain
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6119
  • Location: 3555'N, 8353'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5348 on: Fri, 29 January 2021, 08:12:41 »

there is no options in 122


NMB "Space Invaders" is available in a really nice 122-key board, if you like ISO Enter (it can't be modified to ANSI like ancient IBM iron), plus, if my memory serves me well, it has a standard PS/2 connector.

"We're playing for real here."
- Joe Biden 2021-09-10

Offline C1TRU5

  • Posts: 3
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5349 on: Fri, 29 January 2021, 13:28:32 »
Okay here's mine.

I like low-profile switches better. I would rather have my fingers be traveling less to type each letter.

Currently still using a regular mechy though, having the satisfying feel and sound is loads better than my typing speed on a flat chicklet keyboard. But I do wish there were more options for low profile switches. What I want just doesn't seem to exist right now.
I've been thinking about figuring out how to design my own.. but I have no idea what to do after I have an actual design. I wouldn't want to spend that much time without knowing if I could actually make them.

I think more people would consider this reasonable if there were enough low-profile switches. Kailh's Choc switches seem pretty nice to me, but all I care about are clickies.


Is there something in the way of making more low-profile switches? Like some kind of difficult engineering barrier? Or is it just a matter of someone making a new switch? I feel like there is market for it, but I could be wrong. I kinda wish I could just design my own and be done with it