Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 820022 times)

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Offline alertArchitect

  • Posts: 114
  • Location: The Void, KY, United States
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5700 on: Thu, 08 July 2021, 11:08:56 »
It funny how the dynamic changes with team games. In fighting games, people are always happy to get new players into a game.

Ohhhhh yeah. It's almost like some people don't know how to recognize when they make mistakes and blame it all on others when they can, making the toxicity come out more in team-based competitive games more than chill co-op or 1v1 games. For example, the Warframe community, the Starlords community, the Monster Hunter community, the fighting game community, and what I know of the Starcraft community all have one thing in common - the willingness to accept and assist new players instead of gatekeeping or raging at them just for not knowing the game they're new to.

Can you tell I have some left over resentment at those types of communities from when I used to play League of Legends?

In all seriousness though, I don't tend to see any gatekeeping in the KB community, which is great. Even the more joking stuff that can come off as such, or the rebuttals of points that may come off like that, you can definitely tell if you actually look at it that there is nothing more going on than pointing things out the person being responded to may not have considered, especially if they're used to hobbies with more mass market appeal, like miniature painting. The differences between this hobby, which is still fairly small even if it is growing a lot, and ones that are much more established and have a lot more money in them is not something to underestimate, but it still happens. That leads to people being misinformed, then corrected with information about how this hobby can differ from others. And while, yes, that can come off as being a bit gatekeep-y, honestly I see it as just being honest with people so they can alter their mindset and expectations regarding the hobby to fit with what it actually is rather than what it would be if it were more like other hobbies in the same vein.

Offline CobaltSwiftpaw

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5701 on: Fri, 09 July 2021, 14:04:51 »
It might be just me, but I honestly feel like I'm being gaslit half the time I visit the interest check forum. Page after page of the same generic-looking boxy keyboards or bog standard cherry profile keycaps in a slightly different shade of grey. I can't tell the latest one apart from the last 4 I viewed, and then hordes of people come tripping over each other to declare that it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen.  :confused:

Nope, I agree. Before I knew what they were I bought a GMK clone set and while I can understand liking different colourways and all, I just don't see why people lust over a specific keycap set that hasn't been made for 2 years when there's probably a set that looks identical currently live.

Offline alertArchitect

  • Posts: 114
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5702 on: Fri, 09 July 2021, 15:23:23 »
Nope, I agree. Before I knew what they were I bought a GMK clone set and while I can understand liking different colourways and all, I just don't see why people lust over a specific keycap set that hasn't been made for 2 years when there's probably a set that looks identical currently live.

It boils down to the same reason people will pay more for TCG cards that are foil, or from an older set in the game. That version is harder to find, and thus more valuable to collectors. For example, in Magic: The Gathering, if you get a rare card that's pretty strong from a new set, but is a reprint of that same card and effect from an older set, the versions from the older sets are going to be much more expensive, even if the existence of a reprint brings down the price of the older cards a bit, simply because the older ones are harder to find in good condition and are no longer in print the exact way it was in that original printing. The harder to find it is, the more enticing collectors find it, and the more they'll pay.

Then, when you look specifically at the market for keycaps, you have the issues of clones possibly being of lower quality, legend fading, the feel of the type of plastic used being different and not to your liking, the colors of some sets possibly not matching 100% between the normal caps and the longer keys (Different types of white between the alphanumerics and spacebar, for example. Unintentional differences, basically), quality of the printing on the legends / designs for the caps being different, legend placement, etc. There are so many variables that go into keycap design and production that, sometimes, there will be people that will say "I want this one, and will accept no substitutes," simply because they found what they like and don't want to change it if they can due to how quality and other variables can change what they enjoy about those keycaps, even with clones.

Offline geauxflying

  • Posts: 53
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5703 on: Sun, 11 July 2021, 08:51:36 »
FR4 plates are the best.

Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

  • Posts: 464
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5704 on: Sun, 11 July 2021, 11:35:08 »
FR4 plates are the best.
They are pretty nice


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Offline NoteMakoti

  • Posts: 106
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5705 on: Mon, 12 July 2021, 00:45:55 »
Gasket mount designs are super diverse and super finnicky, but I have no problem at all getting a tray mount to feel or sound good. I've reached the point where seeing "gasket mounted" in an IC makes me nervous.

Offline TheWonderBubble

  • Posts: 61
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5706 on: Mon, 12 July 2021, 09:28:54 »
Gasket mount designs are super diverse and super finnicky, but I have no problem at all getting a tray mount to feel or sound good. I've reached the point where seeing "gasket mounted" in an IC makes me nervous.

May be slightly off topic but you seem like the person to ask - I'm looking for a tray-mount 60% case (DH60 spec) but the only one I know of is the Tofu60, anything else you'd recommend I look at that isn't a long-ended group buy?
Shhhhh...my wallet doesn't know I'm here.


Offline NoteMakoti

  • Posts: 106
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5707 on: Mon, 12 July 2021, 18:46:05 »
Gasket mount designs are super diverse and super finnicky, but I have no problem at all getting a tray mount to feel or sound good. I've reached the point where seeing "gasket mounted" in an IC makes me nervous.

May be slightly off topic but you seem like the person to ask - I'm looking for a tray-mount 60% case (DH60 spec) but the only one I know of is the Tofu60, anything else you'd recommend I look at that isn't a long-ended group buy?
Most 60%s stick to the Poker spec, so almost all are compatible with the DH60. I'm thinking of getting the NPKC wooden ones with the built in wristrest soon.

Offline Ailment

  • Posts: 26
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5708 on: Tue, 13 July 2021, 13:42:58 »
Blockers for the arrow cluster on 65%s are trash.... I don't want less functionality on my board and I don't need help finding/ not hitting something that is in the bottom corner of the board, lets get rid of the 1 key while we are at it so I don't hit escape.... Sorry, 65% is my preference and pretty much every one I have seen lately has no FN key on the right half.  And if you like it for aesthetics, I don't think it looks good either  ;) LOL

Offline Volny

  • Posts: 190
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5709 on: Thu, 22 July 2021, 20:07:11 »
1. Pom blanks are the superior keycaps. Durable and no possible issues with legend centering/legend quality.

Kinda like how all high-end sound systems can be so easily spoiled with inferior music CDs that run the risk of displaying distortion, overwarm bass, lack of treble clarity, artificial sounding sound stage, not to mention simply questionable musical taste. None of which should be tolerated by the discerning audiophile. That's why 9 out 10 serious audiophiles demand only the very best and most flawless experience from their hifis, and will listen only to blank CDs, after they have switched the unit off. :-X  :p

Offline Faceman76

  • Posts: 118
  • Location: Long Island
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5710 on: Thu, 22 July 2021, 20:12:20 »


1. Pom blanks are the superior keycaps. Durable and no possible issues with legend centering/legend quality.

No matter of concern for those who touch type.

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TKC 1800, Crystal Box Navy, Sprit 100g

Offline bkrownd

  • Posts: 121
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5711 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 17:02:34 »
Blockers for the arrow cluster on 65%s are trash.... I don't want less functionality on my board and I don't need help finding/ not hitting something that is in the bottom corner of the board,

For this reason I don't follow custom keyboards, aside from the Boston.  "Blockers" and oversized empty bezel/border area on almost everything. 

My addition in this unpopular opinion area: artwork and fancy machining/polishing on the underside or "back" edge of the keyboard are absolutely pointless.  I'd be frustrated to pay $$$ for a fancy keyboard that has much of the fancy always hidden underneath. 
My Group Buys: SA Nightlight, GMK Tuzi, ePBT RamenStop, GMK Iceberg, IFK Peach Tea, KAT Space Dust, GMK Stargaze
Non-GB sets: Akko World Tour Tokyo (V1), Coral Sea, SA Lime
Boards: GMMK TKL, Akko 3084, Kono 84

Offline tiltowait

  • Posts: 12
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5712 on: Sat, 31 July 2021, 11:33:31 »
In 115 pages, I’m sure my unpopular opinions have already been said, but I’ll take a stab anyway.

1. I dislike most tactile switches where the click is an affectation and not an inherent aspect of the actuation mechanism.
2. Much like some people complain that keyboards are held back by clinging to outmoded remnants of the past (staggered rows, QWERTY layout, etc.), the same can be said for MX-style stems and switch housings.
3. (Possibly the most unpopular) There is too much choice in the market these days. It’s nearly impossible for even a very active member of the community to make a fully informed decision or offer fully informed advice. Choice paralysis is a real thing, and I know more than one person who gave up on buying a mechanical keyboard because of how many options there are.
4. Most ergonomic keyboards … aren’t. In fact, some are arguably worse in certain regards.
5. While they are undeniably massive, the height of a beamspring keyboard is a non-issue if you can adjust your seat height or desk height. If you can fit a fullsize keyboard, you are almost certainly fine with any of them save perhaps for the Displaywriter/Beamship (though they’re < 2” wider than a Model M).
6. Beamsprings are fantastic switches. But they aren’t “godly”, nor are you guaranteed to prefer them over a Model M/F. They certainly aren’t worth anywhere near $1500+. (I would know. I own one, purchased for $300 including controller.)
7. The community is too hyperbolic. Switches aren’t merely “okay”, they’re “trash”. They aren’t “preferred”, but “godly”. This goes for case designs, keycap materials, colorways, etc. etc. (And this is a complaint that could probably be leveled at society at large, not just the community.)

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 175
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5713 on: Sat, 31 July 2021, 12:00:24 »
In 115 pages, I’m sure my unpopular opinions have already been said, but I’ll take a stab anyway.

1. I dislike most tactile switches where the click is an affectation and not an inherent aspect of the actuation mechanism.
2. Much like some people complain that keyboards are held back by clinging to outmoded remnants of the past (staggered rows, QWERTY layout, etc.), the same can be said for MX-style stems and switch housings.
3. (Possibly the most unpopular) There is too much choice in the market these days. It’s nearly impossible for even a very active member of the community to make a fully informed decision or offer fully informed advice. Choice paralysis is a real thing, and I know more than one person who gave up on buying a mechanical keyboard because of how many options there are.
4. Most ergonomic keyboards … aren’t. In fact, some are arguably worse in certain regards.
5. While they are undeniably massive, the height of a beamspring keyboard is a non-issue if you can adjust your seat height or desk height. If you can fit a fullsize keyboard, you are almost certainly fine with any of them save perhaps for the Displaywriter/Beamship (though they’re < 2” wider than a Model M).
6. Beamsprings are fantastic switches. But they aren’t “godly”, nor are you guaranteed to prefer them over a Model M/F. They certainly aren’t worth anywhere near $1500+. (I would know. I own one, purchased for $300 including controller.)
7. The community is too hyperbolic. Switches aren’t merely “okay”, they’re “trash”. They aren’t “preferred”, but “godly”. This goes for case designs, keycap materials, colorways, etc. etc. (And this is a complaint that could probably be leveled at society at large, not just the community.)
I agree with point 3, there is too much options and types this days to make a choice, Nylon, PC, POM, long pole, HP style, sharp, round, short travel, etc, you can't get an idea without actually trying it, especially since keyboard parts are pretty expensive to try, or at least very expensive in small quantities.
Manufacturers should give the option to get switch sample packs for starters.

Offline tiltowait

  • Posts: 12
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5714 on: Sat, 31 July 2021, 14:57:11 »
Switch samples are okay, but they don't give a great impression of what typing on an actual keyboard, especially for any real length of time, will be like. I thought I would like clears based on a sampler I tried, but once I had them on an actual keyboard, I was pretty disappointed and wound up selling it.

Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5715 on: Sun, 01 August 2021, 06:33:17 »
Let's hear them.

I'll start off.

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

2. I think HHKB boards are overrated, and the layout dumber than a Poker. I think custom MX, HHKB layout boards are just as stupid (Viper, Happy).

3. I think Topre is overrated, and lower quality than MX (despite the higher price) as the board tends to get stiffer over time.

Welp, I'm a fan of compacts!

Arrow keys on HJKL, accessed by pressing a layer modifier is so much more convenient. I really like to stay on the home row when typing.

HHKB is good for the split RS and the ideal backspace positioning, but the wasted space on the bottom left and right is kinda silly

Topre - I agree. I've tried some out and it's definitely overpriced for what are good rubber domes. They aren't bad, but not worth the price.

Offline bkrownd

  • Posts: 121
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5716 on: Tue, 03 August 2021, 17:55:38 »

  I'd only use a compact layout for programming....or playing NetHack  ;)  Need my dedicated f-keys for various other things. 
My Group Buys: SA Nightlight, GMK Tuzi, ePBT RamenStop, GMK Iceberg, IFK Peach Tea, KAT Space Dust, GMK Stargaze
Non-GB sets: Akko World Tour Tokyo (V1), Coral Sea, SA Lime
Boards: GMMK TKL, Akko 3084, Kono 84

Offline chadrezzar

  • Posts: 16
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5717 on: Wed, 04 August 2021, 20:18:53 »
Kinda like how all high-end sound systems can be so easily spoiled with inferior music CDs that run the risk of displaying distortion, overwarm bass, lack of treble clarity, artificial sounding sound stage, not to mention simply questionable musical taste. None of which should be tolerated by the discerning audiophile. That's why 9 out 10 serious audiophiles demand only the very best and most flawless experience from their hifis, and will listen only to blank CDs, after they have switched the unit off. :-X  :p
That would be the keyboards in our collections hanging from the walls/lined up on a shelf with all switches spring swapped/lubed/filmed to perfection..... Talking about audio... I was forced to acknowledge my hypocrisy the other day when I was trying to find out why an amplifier has to cost $XXX when it should be relatively simple technology.... whilst looking at keyboard Gb's in certain price ranges on a different tab  :-X
Maybe we should all just pick up a K120 and call it a day...     :eek: :))


« Last Edit: Wed, 04 August 2021, 20:27:59 by chadrezzar »

Offline shuijiao

  • Posts: 18
  • Location: Canada
  • ergo clear
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5718 on: Wed, 04 August 2021, 23:50:58 »
DCS is goated
Peerless80, Type S, Pro 2, Pro 1, Duck Viper v3, Duck Orion V2.5, Matrix 2.0 Additional, Matrix Falcon

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5719 on: Thu, 05 August 2021, 03:44:11 »
OEM profile is top kek!
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5720 on: Thu, 05 August 2021, 10:50:55 »


1. Pom blanks are the superior keycaps. Durable and no possible issues with legend centering/legend quality.

No matter of concern for those who touch type.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Agree and this is why OG pom remains my endgame keyset
nothing can be as unique , there are plenty of cherry original dyesub, but they cannot be as good as OG pom : )
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Offline NoteMakoti

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5721 on: Thu, 05 August 2021, 20:22:29 »
The optical switches on the Razer Huntsman Mini are smoother than any MX style switch I've ever tried, including tangerines and alpacas.

Offline alertArchitect

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5722 on: Fri, 06 August 2021, 11:52:43 »
The optical switches on the Razer Huntsman Mini are smoother than any MX style switch I've ever tried, including tangerines and alpacas.

Yeah, I've heard they're rather pleasant for fans of linears. Even the ones that have analog sensitivity. I only dislike them because I prefer tactiles to linears, and though I can live with them if necessary I'm not a big fan of linears in general.

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 175
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5723 on: Thu, 12 August 2021, 21:39:19 »
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Offline kikomir

  • Posts: 6
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5724 on: Fri, 13 August 2021, 02:12:10 »
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 175
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5725 on: Fri, 13 August 2021, 06:21:20 »
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
To me serves the purpose of giving me a feedback to know I've pressed the bottom and did not miss it by not pressing enough, which can happen with linears for me, it also helps to recognize mistypes and prevent them. 
Maybe the initial concept was to not bottom out but I can't see that happening now with the MX switches available, it's either noticeably tactile and bottoming out (most of the noticeable tactile are Holy Panda style anyway) by having a lighter spring than the tactile bump resulting in bottoming out or having a weaker bump than the spring resulting in weak tactile feeback. 

I just find the concept tiring to force yourself to not bottom out, with the current MX switches avaliable.
Could you give examples of boards that have tactile feeback meant to not bottom out?

Offline kikomir

  • Posts: 6
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5726 on: Fri, 13 August 2021, 08:56:01 »
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
To me serves the purpose of giving me a feedback to know I've pressed the bottom and did not miss it by not pressing enough, which can happen with linears for me, it also helps to recognize mistypes and prevent them. 
Maybe the initial concept was to not bottom out but I can't see that happening now with the MX switches available, it's either noticeably tactile and bottoming out (most of the noticeable tactile are Holy Panda style anyway) by having a lighter spring than the tactile bump resulting in bottoming out or having a weaker bump than the spring resulting in weak tactile feeback. 

I just find the concept tiring to force yourself to not bottom out, with the current MX switches avaliable.
Could you give examples of boards that have tactile feeback meant to not bottom out?

I can't give you an example of a board with tactile switches that is meant to not bottom out because that would be like asking me to give an example of a car designed to not move. It goes against the core concept.

"The fundamental reason is ergonomic. Tactile feedback makes it possible for a typist to stop pushing down before the keys bottom out, reducing total effort by up to a factor of two.
The lowered effort substantially reduces the risk of RSI, and there field evidence that people with RSI may achieve reduction in symptoms or even complete remission of RSI by using tactile-feedback devices.
Even people without RSI often find they can type faster and more accurately on tactile devices than on dome-switch keyboards that don’t supply anything but slight uniform resistance or a meaningless click before they bottom out."


Also, "tactile" switches are simply an effort to mimic the tactility of the clickies but be more silent, it's the strong tactility of the clickies that is the desired trait. I personally think that none of the MX clones are actually tactile, except for the clickies (and maybe BOX Royals, depending on if you count them as tactile or clicky). MX switches being terrible at tactility is the reason people simply think that you must bottom out.

Also, another strange opinion of mine, linears are so popular because they are, bear with me, more tactile than tactiles/clickies. The harsh bottom out is a strong tactile event, signaling your finger to stop pushing and go back.
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 August 2021, 08:57:47 by kikomir »

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 175
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5727 on: Fri, 13 August 2021, 09:57:41 »
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
My comment

I can't give you an example of a board with tactile switches that is meant to not bottom out because that would be like asking me to give an example of a car designed to not move. It goes against the core concept.

"The fundamental reason is ergonomic. Tactile feedback makes it possible for a typist to stop pushing down before the keys bottom out, reducing total effort by up to a factor of two.
The lowered effort substantially reduces the risk of RSI, and there field evidence that people with RSI may achieve reduction in symptoms or even complete remission of RSI by using tactile-feedback devices.
Even people without RSI often find they can type faster and more accurately on tactile devices than on dome-switch keyboards that don’t supply anything but slight uniform resistance or a meaningless click before they bottom out."


Also, "tactile" switches are simply an effort to mimic the tactility of the clickies but be more silent, it's the strong tactility of the clickies that is the desired trait. I personally think that none of the MX clones are actually tactile, except for the clickies (and maybe BOX Royals, depending on if you count them as tactile or clicky). MX switches being terrible at tactility is the reason people simply think that you must bottom out.

Also, another strange opinion of mine, linears are so popular because they are, bear with me, more tactile than tactiles/clickies. The harsh bottom out is a strong tactile event, signaling your finger to stop pushing and go back.
Well you can't say MX switches aren't tactile in the sense of "they aren't tactile because real tactility is meant to allow you to not bottom out while typing" and then say you don't have any example of a board with real tactile mechanism, it doesn't really have to be MX, are alps considered actual tactiles to you? can you use Model M buckling springs without bottoming out? I'm genuinely curious.
I could see your point with the lineras, it's a plain and simple feedback, linaer travel until you stop and then you definitly know you can lift your finger. 
But I can't see how a casual keyboard user or even enthusiast will be able to accuratly stop himself from bottoming out while having high WPM count. [Edit: when using tactile MX switches or even any switch unless it's very heavy].

BOX royals are indeed pretty tactile but I disagree those are the only tactiles along with the clickbar swithces, most of the HP style tactiles are pretty tactile, Moyu Black, U4T, T1, etc, they're pretty nice IMO, they give the feeling of a button rather than a switch.
Seems like people don't like that the feedback mechanism on MX style tactile switches is not tied to the actuation.
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 August 2021, 13:51:32 by Leopard223 »

Offline chadrezzar

  • Posts: 16
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5728 on: Tue, 17 August 2021, 23:07:25 »
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
To me serves the purpose of giving me a feedback to know I've pressed the bottom and did not miss it by not pressing enough, which can happen with linears for me, it also helps to recognize mistypes and prevent them. 
Maybe the initial concept was to not bottom out but I can't see that happening now with the MX switches available, it's either noticeably tactile and bottoming out (most of the noticeable tactile are Holy Panda style anyway) by having a lighter spring than the tactile bump resulting in bottoming out or having a weaker bump than the spring resulting in weak tactile feeback. 

I just find the concept tiring to force yourself to not bottom out, with the current MX switches avaliable.
Could you give examples of boards that have tactile feeback meant to not bottom out?

Which is exactly why I dislike a lot of the tactile offerings currenty on the table. The tactility bump is so sharp/big/long that to me they miss the entire purpose of tactile switch; feedback on the actuation point of the keypress. MX browns on the other hand aren't it either: feedback is just too weak.

To me tactile feedback is just about knowing when the switch actuated, I'm not at all interested in feeling that I'm overcoming a long mountain trek or just hit a deer on my keyboard  :-X

I think the zealv1's did it very well though they had some other less than stellar things such as wobble(didn't bother me much). The only way I've found a tactility I like in the current offerings is through frankenswitching to get something with a bump stronger than browns but not as extreme as zealv2's or drawn out like boba u4's.

(End result boba linear bottoms with silent sky stems)

Offline lakiozoon

  • Posts: 74
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5729 on: Wed, 18 August 2021, 04:03:04 »
I prefer Costar over the Cherry Stabilizers (even the good Screw-in lubed Cherries), especially on the Space Bar.

Offline Chalkboard

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5730 on: Wed, 18 August 2021, 14:59:06 »
For me, the tactility in tactile switches serves the purpose of providing a high initial resistance to prevent inadvertent key presses. Which is why I tend to like sharp tactile switches with the tactile bump right at the top. But I bottom out when typing, so there's that. Hey it's just an opinion :)

Offline Leopard223

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5731 on: Wed, 18 August 2021, 17:06:29 »
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
To me serves the purpose of giving me a feedback to know I've pressed the bottom and did not miss it by not pressing enough, which can happen with linears for me, it also helps to recognize mistypes and prevent them. 
Maybe the initial concept was to not bottom out but I can't see that happening now with the MX switches available, it's either noticeably tactile and bottoming out (most of the noticeable tactile are Holy Panda style anyway) by having a lighter spring than the tactile bump resulting in bottoming out or having a weaker bump than the spring resulting in weak tactile feeback. 

I just find the concept tiring to force yourself to not bottom out, with the current MX switches avaliable.
Could you give examples of boards that have tactile feeback meant to not bottom out?

Which is exactly why I dislike a lot of the tactile offerings currenty on the table. The tactility bump is so sharp/big/long that to me they miss the entire purpose of tactile switch; feedback on the actuation point of the keypress. MX browns on the other hand aren't it either: feedback is just too weak.

To me tactile feedback is just about knowing when the switch actuated, I'm not at all interested in feeling that I'm overcoming a long mountain trek or just hit a deer on my keyboard  :-X

I think the zealv1's did it very well though they had some other less than stellar things such as wobble(didn't bother me much). The only way I've found a tactility I like in the current offerings is through frankenswitching to get something with a bump stronger than browns but not as extreme as zealv2's or drawn out like boba u4's.

(End result boba linear bottoms with silent sky stems)
Well you're basically describing Ergo Clears. 
Zeals V1 we're Ergo Clears like switch, and from a short test I've maded mixing a an Outemu V2 stem in a linear boba housing produced an Ergo Clear like switch, not sure how a silent stem will differ though.

Can you actually prevent yourself from bottoming out while having high WPM? seems like it's either tiring or jamming your WPM as 4mm is not long enough in my eyes, though I'll admit I havn't used an ergo clear board, maybe I should give it a shot.

Offline chadrezzar

  • Posts: 16
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5732 on: Wed, 18 August 2021, 20:27:48 »
Well you're basically describing Ergo Clears. 
Zeals V1 we're Ergo Clears like switch, and from a short test I've maded mixing a an Outemu V2 stem in a linear boba housing produced an Ergo Clear like switch, not sure how a silent stem will differ though.

Can you actually prevent yourself from bottoming out while having high WPM? seems like it's either tiring or jamming your WPM as 4mm is not long enough in my eyes, though I'll admit I havn't used an ergo clear board, maybe I should give it a shot.

Pretty much yes:

I very much like the silent stems because even if I overdose the force needed for a keypress it doesn't result in an overly harsh bottomout. Obviously I still bottom out every now and then, especially when typing fast(when trying to type as fast as possible I'd say I bottomout on the majority of keypresses)  WPM also takes a hit when I try to consciously not bottom out: https://i.imgur.com/9H4d9QM.png. (My wpm depends highly on the stand of the moon or something though, are days I can hit 170, others I'll struggle to get 110, is what it is though I have to say I don't test frequently  ^-^)


I won't be hitting 200wpm anytime soon(if it all) when trying not to bottomout but that's fine with me, for my purposes it's fast enough...
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 August 2021, 20:30:59 by chadrezzar »

Offline _rubik

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5733 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 08:42:13 »
I've been sitting on this one for a while: aviator connectors look terrible.

They're super chunk and unaesthetic, and the exposed hardware is all around bleh. I'd rather have multiple cables for multiple devices than have a set of aviators.

Lemo connectors, on the other hand, are the gold standard. Lemo clones are a cheaper alternative that are only ~20 msrp. We need more cables offered with lemo clones.
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5734 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 12:31:20 »
IDK if this is all that unpopular, but I think cherry makes some of the worst key switches on the market right now. Reds are meh, Blues sound ****ing hideous (greens are better but not by much), and browns are just lackluster when you use literally any other tactile switch somewhere like NK has to offer. I've heard blacks are nice but honestly, my general distaste for Cherry has made me completely uninterested.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5735 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 12:58:26 »
DCS > GMK

Offline tiltowait

  • Posts: 12
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5736 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 14:59:49 »
IDK if this is all that unpopular, but I think cherry makes some of the worst key switches on the market right now. Reds are meh, Blues sound ****ing hideous (greens are better but not by much), and browns are just lackluster when you use literally any other tactile switch somewhere like NK has to offer. I've heard blacks are nice but honestly, my general distaste for Cherry has made me completely uninterested.

I'm mostly there with you. I think MX and MX-derived switches are inferior to other technologies, though I'm personally fine with reds and think they're easily the best offering (Kailh Box Reds are better, though).

I've been sitting on this one for a while: aviator connectors look terrible.

They're super chunk and unaesthetic, and the exposed hardware is all around bleh. I'd rather have multiple cables for multiple devices than have a set of aviators.

Lemo connectors, on the other hand, are the gold standard. Lemo clones are a cheaper alternative that are only ~20 msrp. We need more cables offered with lemo clones.

Honestly, I don't see a huge difference between them. They all look odd to me, like some sort of water pipe fitting rather than a USB cable. And 90% of the time, they don't match the aesthetic of the keyboard at all.

Offline Hans_Luber

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5737 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 19:43:51 »
The optical switches on the Razer Huntsman Mini are smoother than any MX style switch I've ever tried, including tangerines and alpacas.

Same goes with the Flaretech switches in the Wooting keyboards. Almost too smooth. Really neat though, especially with the variable actuation distance.

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 175
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5738 on: Sun, 22 August 2021, 08:27:11 »
The optical switches on the Razer Huntsman Mini are smoother than any MX style switch I've ever tried, including tangerines and alpacas.

Same goes with the Flaretech switches in the Wooting keyboards. Almost too smooth. Really neat though, especially with the variable actuation distance.
The first gen Flaretech switches on my Celeritas II are pretty good, off center isn't the best on a lot of them but otherwise they're very nice, compared to my Gat yellows you almost can't feel the travel.
Maybe I'd lube them one day, Trybosis 3204 will probably get rid of the off center issue and make them extra smooth.

Offline _rubik

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5739 on: Sun, 22 August 2021, 11:46:38 »
IDK if this is all that unpopular, but I think cherry makes some of the worst key switches on the market right now. Reds are meh, Blues sound ****ing hideous (greens are better but not by much), and browns are just lackluster when you use literally any other tactile switch somewhere like NK has to offer. I've heard blacks are nice but honestly, my general distaste for Cherry has made me completely uninterested.

I don't think this is an unpopular opinion whatsoever. Retooled browns have gotten positive attention, but other otherwise they're pretty lackluster.
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Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5740 on: Sun, 22 August 2021, 12:13:23 »
Ultrasonic baths are dumb, boiling is better.

Literally just yeet switches into a pan, boil them. They don't deform or melt, it's way faster and better.

Offline yui

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5741 on: Mon, 23 August 2021, 06:26:10 »
Ultrasonic baths are dumb, boiling is better.

Literally just yeet switches into a pan, boil them. They don't deform or melt, it's way faster and better.
boiling will remove anything that is water soluble, ultrasonic baths everything else too, it is most often not needed i agree but still is much stronger.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5742 on: Mon, 23 August 2021, 07:24:04 »

boiling is better.


ABS can't survive that temperature. Verify the material before you go over about 185F/85C.
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Offline mode

  • Posts: 315
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5743 on: Mon, 23 August 2021, 09:07:52 »

boiling is better.


ABS can't survive that temperature. Verify the material before you go over about 185F/85C.

I have, pine alps are not abs, they handle high temps easy.

Even bamboo seems to be fine which is abs and does melt in acetone, I just wouldn’t push it too far. who even cares about bamboo though?
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 August 2021, 09:11:32 by mode »

Offline gidders369

  • Posts: 1
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5744 on: Mon, 23 August 2021, 15:47:47 »
I think that the pe foam mod and tape mod are the begining of the end for this hobby. It makes every single board sound the same and just takes out all of the fun in keyboards in general

Offline _rubik

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5745 on: Mon, 23 August 2021, 15:56:40 »
I think that the pe foam mod and tape mod are the begining of the end for this hobby. It makes every single board sound the same and just takes out all of the fun in keyboards in general

Solid first post!

I totally agree. The variation between boards is what keep things interesting (IMO). That's why I always appreciate the Dactyl community and all of the offshoots. Truly the wild west for keyboards
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Offline Hans_Luber

  • Posts: 10
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5746 on: Mon, 23 August 2021, 18:11:44 »
The optical switches on the Razer Huntsman Mini are smoother than any MX style switch I've ever tried, including tangerines and alpacas.

Same goes with the Flaretech switches in the Wooting keyboards. Almost too smooth. Really neat though, especially with the variable actuation distance.
The first gen Flaretech switches on my Celeritas II are pretty good, off center isn't the best on a lot of them but otherwise they're very nice, compared to my Gat yellows you almost can't feel the travel.
Maybe I'd lube them one day, Trybosis 3204 will probably get rid of the off center issue and make them extra smooth.

Idk why I never considered lubing flaretechs. I haven't touched that keyboard in quite some time. Have you seen what they are going for on ebay these days? Seems like a joke.

Offline Volny

  • Posts: 190
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5747 on: Mon, 23 August 2021, 18:31:54 »
I think that the pe foam mod and tape mod are the begining of the end for this hobby. It makes every single board sound the same and just takes out all of the fun in keyboards in general

At most, it would just be the beginning of people paying more attention to the various other aspects of keyboards. For me personally, sound barely makes it into the top ten of a keyboard's most interesting attributes.

Offline Faceman76

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5748 on: Mon, 23 August 2021, 18:54:59 »
I must be in the minority, as long as the keyboard doesn't sound like a rattlebox or broken, then I don't care what it sounds like. 

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Offline Volny

  • Posts: 190
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5749 on: Tue, 24 August 2021, 09:45:18 »
I always wear noise cancelling headphones, so I don't even know what my keyboard sounds like   :D