Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 1263387 times)

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Offline Baxter

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #550 on: Tue, 07 April 2015, 07:41:22 »
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).

Let's be realistic here - how many Italians are around here. Yes there are a few, but you've got to accept that you are in a very small minority. A keyset with an Italian legends add-on would sell 5 sets, tops. That is not worth it and will drive up the prices for everyone else.

The granite approach : big kit for international users, that can be split. Not sure if any set but Granite can pull this off though.

As a european and an ISO user I'm generally happy with this compromise, at least on SP I'm happier with the bargain that I'm paying more for keycaps that I won't use in return for consolidating niche requirements that were always going to fail individually (with the added benefit that I might be making 3 Italians happy).

Better I'm down an extra £18 for a complete set than stuck with a partial set that missed completion by one vote.

I'm not really sure where the critical cost lies for SP since they have given in to special pleading for extras that just missed their tipping point in the past.

Offline davkol

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #551 on: Tue, 07 April 2015, 14:27:16 »
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).

Mechanical boards can be nice- I've loved my several Model Ms and my Alps boards, but Cherry MX? Nice form factor and key cap options, but from a typing perspective I just don't get the hype.

Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.

Offline tbc

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #552 on: Tue, 07 April 2015, 14:45:32 »
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).

Let's be realistic here - how many Italians are around here. Yes there are a few, but you've got to accept that you are in a very small minority. A keyset with an Italian legends add-on would sell 5 sets, tops. That is not worth it and will drive up the prices for everyone else.

The granite approach : big kit for international users, that can be split. Not sure if any set but Granite can pull this off though.

As a european and an ISO user I'm generally happy with this compromise, at least on SP I'm happier with the bargain that I'm paying more for keycaps that I won't use in return for consolidating niche requirements that were always going to fail individually (with the added benefit that I might be making 3 Italians happy).

Better I'm down an extra £18 for a complete set than stuck with a partial set that missed completion by one vote.

I'm not really sure where the critical cost lies for SP since they have given in to special pleading for extras that just missed their tipping point in the past.

i'm not specifically replying to you, just commenting on intl legends.


has anyone broken down those sets into mutually exclusive languages?

for a set supporting german, norweigan, and swedish, let's say norweigan and swedish share 1 key, but german is completely exclusive.  a swedish buyer could sell some of his intl legends set to a german buyer and get half of his money back, but could NOT do the same with a norweigan buyer
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Offline Ettasian

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #553 on: Tue, 07 April 2015, 15:06:27 »
1. I prefer XT layout over AT.
2. Good linear switches are best, most clickers suck ass and tend to get 'old 'n rusty'
3. I like MX Reds. For typing.
4. Backlight is just an addition to a keyboard, but it can look awesome and even help (green backlit can help your eyes actually)
5. I would rather buy an old M, F or some cherries or even alps over 26MacroKeys99KRO revolutionary gamin' keyboard anytime.
6. I don't collect keyboards because they make me type faster(50WPM maybe, don't even care), or neither i want to show off, I just gather some great pieces of modern craftsmanship that are also great tools for work and entertainment, and I just feel better with them by my side, and i preserve them.

And last..

7.I am listening to Celine Dion at this very moment. And I love you all. Also RIPster is a great guy for all he does for keyboard science.

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Offline jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #554 on: Tue, 07 April 2015, 20:52:30 »
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).
Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.


NKRO is completely overrated. For $100+, I want a serious keyboard that is a dream to type on, not a crappy Razer that will let me pwn n00bs.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 April 2015, 20:55:03 by jamster »

Offline hwood34

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #555 on: Tue, 07 April 2015, 20:56:55 »
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).
Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.


NKRO is completely overrated. For $100+, I want a serious keyboard that is a dream to type on, not a crappy Razer that will let me pwn n00bs.
I mean, NKRO is useful for certain games that require large combinations of keys. I personally have never found a use for more than 6KRO, but some people do. Some people use keyboards for purposes other than typing
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Offline davkol

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #556 on: Wed, 08 April 2015, 07:16:20 »
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).
Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.


NKRO is completely overrated. For $100+, I want a serious keyboard that is a dream to type on, not a crappy Razer that will let me pwn n00bs.

Tell me about your membrane keyboard with 6KRO and not just a crappy "optimized" matrix. (BTW some vendors are crippling their products on purpose; look up, say, Logitech K800/Illuminated and Shift-W-spacebar—the combo worked in some early revisions, but not the newer ones; what did the support answer? buy a keyboard marketed as "gaming" instead.)

If the keyboard doesn't distinguish between modifiers and ordinary (single-tap) keys, it's much more elegant and makes remapping easier (e.g., something like a more aggressive wide mod), although it doesn't really matter with 6KRO over USB in practice.

If you want some actual use cases, here you go: stenography, local multiplayer on a single keyboard, piano simulators. I've done each of that over the years.

Offline jamster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #557 on: Wed, 08 April 2015, 09:21:09 »
If the keyboard doesn't distinguish between modifiers and ordinary (single-tap) keys, it's much more elegant and makes remapping easier (e.g., something like a more aggressive wide mod), although it doesn't really matter with 6KRO over USB in practice.

If you want some actual use cases, here you go: stenography, local multiplayer on a single keyboard, piano simulators. I've done each of that over the years.

Riiight... so that's sub one percent of keyboard users? If you need it, good for you. The more power to all the stenographers out there, or people who want to play piano on a computer, instead of, you know, a piano. I'm not sure what "local multiplayer on a single keyboard" means though.

Edit: I'm not that serious about knocking 6KRO or NKRO, I just don't think that it's really a huge deal for most people, especially people who just want to type or code. I happen to game a little and appreciate 6KRO, but I wouldn't base my keyboard decision on it because I spent most the time typing instead of playing games. I haven't even bothered to enable NKRO on my board, and all it requires is flipping a DIP switch.

My original point is that IMO, Cherry MX is a bit of a crappy feeling mechanism... it just feels too full of compromises without lots of modification effort. I know this is an unpopular opinion, which is why I posted it in the "unpopular keyboard opinions" thread.
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 April 2015, 09:27:16 by jamster »

Offline davkol

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #558 on: Wed, 08 April 2015, 11:42:27 »
If the keyboard doesn't distinguish between modifiers and ordinary (single-tap) keys, it's much more elegant and makes remapping easier (e.g., something like a more aggressive wide mod), although it doesn't really matter with 6KRO over USB in practice.

If you want some actual use cases, here you go: stenography, local multiplayer on a single keyboard, piano simulators. I've done each of that over the years.

Riiight... so that's sub one percent of keyboard users? If you need it, good for you. The more power to all the stenographers out there, or people who want to play piano on a computer, instead of, you know, a piano. I'm not sure what "local multiplayer on a single keyboard" means though.

Actually, I wouldn't be so eager to claim that.

My dad returned a new ergonomic keyboard, because it generated ghosts instead of registering some keyboard shortcuts with embedded numpad, rendering it unusable with the DTP software he'd been using.
I played Frets on Fire a lot with friends in high school, and the game required chording typically several function keys like if they were frets on a guitar. The game was quite popular.
We played lots of multiplayer DOS games on a single keyboard e.g., at retro IT parties in college. Totally random.
I've seen questions about piano simulation many times on various tech support forums, usually asked by developers that needed to record only a couple of samples.
And so on and so on.

Arguably, there's a relatively big risk anyone can run into potentially ghosting/blocking situation on some unexpected occasion. Not a big deal in general, but still annoying… and absolutely unnecessary, because a technical solution has been around for ages.

My original point is that IMO, Cherry MX is a bit of a crappy feeling mechanism... it just feels too full of compromises without lots of modification effort. I know this is an unpopular opinion, which is why I posted it in the "unpopular keyboard opinions" thread.

That (a) isn't even an unpopular opinion around here, but (b) it's not like more than "sub one percent of keyboard users" actually cares.

Offline ttzhou

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #559 on: Wed, 08 April 2015, 12:36:33 »
I actually quite enjoy the feel of the switches on the Razer Blackwidow 2014. I think it's a decent board, my brother has one.

Offline zombimuncha

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #560 on: Wed, 08 April 2015, 16:31:01 »
I think ripster is a really cool guy. kills aleins and doesn't afraid of anything.

Offline Fullcream

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #561 on: Wed, 08 April 2015, 18:43:56 »
Caps lock is a useful function.

Offline IdentityNon

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #562 on: Wed, 08 April 2015, 19:24:59 »
Caps lock is a useful function.

AS somebody WHO sometimes LIKES to BE as OBNOXIOUS as POSSIBLE i AGREE!1

Offline rsac

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #563 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 15:40:17 »
Caps lock seems a very popular topic here.

I still disagree that [caps lock] sucks. I'm one of the extreme minority of people that capitalize letters by double-tapping Caps lock. Is it inefficient and stupid? Perhaps, but I maintain about 95 WPM, so I don't really see the value in learning the "correct" way to apply Caps.
See:
By the way the typing champion Sean Wrona uses Caps Lock even to type 1 capital leter in a word! It's fascinating, but it's really faster for him to hit Caps Lock twice, than coordinating pushing 2 keys at the same time when he's flying at 200WPM.

https://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25711-proper-touch-typing&p=483599&viewfull=1#post483599

You’d be much better off with a key to capitalize just the immediately following letter.

Or perhaps a key which acts like shift if you hold it down, but capitalizes just the next letter if you quickly press and release it.
I'm thinking in implementing a key like this.
Tap = Apply shift to the next key pressed
Hold = Normal shift
Double tap fast = Toggle caps lock (yeah, capslock is nice to have)

That way one could type faster and more confortably, eliminate one key from the keyboard and still use shift while in caplock mode.

AS somebody WHO sometimes LIKES to BE as OBNOXIOUS as POSSIBLE i AGREE!1
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Offline whentheclouds

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #564 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 15:45:09 »
I'm thinking in implementing a key like this.
Tap = Apply shift to the next key pressed
...
Double tap fast = Toggle caps lock (yeah, capslock is nice to have)
i'll see if i can create this using AutoHotkey
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 May 2015, 15:46:40 by whentheclouds »

Offline jerue

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #565 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 17:52:36 »
This might be easier than I thought..let's see.

  • MX Reds are my least favorite switch (stock)
  • I prefer gaming on rubber dome keyboards
  • Caps Lock should be replaced with Search, as it is on Chromebooks (time to reprogram w/software!)
  • I don't mind touch screen keyboards

...guess it's harder than I thought.

Offline sethk_

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #566 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 17:59:31 »
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #567 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 18:37:02 »
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

Need to get you some good dyesub then.  A lot of the stuff I see know is that way, but my typewriter stuff is crisp.

Offline Eszett

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #568 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 19:37:40 »
my personal hatechart:
1. OS-specific keys have no right to be on a keyboard, especially those win keys
2. menu key, for existing
3. CapsLock, for existing
4. tabulator key, for sitting on a prominent place on the keyboard whilst beeing used rather low-frequently
5. ISO enter key, for it's an ugly monstrosity
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 May 2015, 22:30:18 by Eszett »

Offline njbair

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #569 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 19:37:45 »
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

Need to get you some good dyesub then.  A lot of the stuff I see know is that way, but my typewriter stuff is crisp.
I get the sense that dye sublimation is one of those things that's easy to do, but hard to do right. As opposed to doubleshot molding, which appears to just be hard to do.

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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #570 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 21:44:18 »
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.
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“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline demik

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #571 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 21:56:58 »
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

bro, they all feel the same. anybody says different they are liars or have sensitive fingers.
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #572 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 21:57:38 »
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.
Isn’t this just a fact about the market, rather than an opinion?

Offline njbair

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #573 on: Sun, 03 May 2015, 22:11:30 »
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.

I'll go ahead and be unpopular with you. But I'll add a qualification that the Model F is in comparable condition to a new Topre. Dumpster boards with missing keys and dried-on boogers may be diamonds in the rough, but until they're restored it's only unrealized potential.

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Offline Hak Foo

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #574 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 00:34:45 »
I think the Model F is a much more repairable product than the Topre, though.

A Topre board has a relatively ordinary PCB, in a relatively ordinary case, and rubber domes doomed to wear out (that aren't really widely traded around).

In comparison, the most irreplacable part of a F is the PCB, which is securely protected by about seven kilos of steel, and the XTant people are working on that one.  The flippers and springs, caps, and even barrels can be scavenged, and most of them are getting controller swaps or converters anyway.

You can hoard and hold those dumpster Fs until they become worth using.  I can recall that 122Fs used to be useless-- no easy way to make them speak a normal protocol-- then Soarer happened and the whole economy reset.
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Offline jonathanyu

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #575 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 01:22:22 »
Keyboards that bent the plate as a case looks horrible to me.

I don't like skeleton style keyboard case.

I don't like Hyperfuse and Penumbra keyset. 

I think the Lily set is the best looking keyset so far.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #576 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 07:11:17 »

You can hoard and hold those dumpster Fs until they become worth using.  I can recall that 122Fs used to be useless


@jacobolus Isn’t this just a fact about the market, rather than an opinion? - for about a week there I could quote you

I was referring to the firestorm that ellipse received when he sold some of his jewels. F-122s are not rare, merely uncommon.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline LouisHjelmslev

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #577 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 10:20:59 »
-ISO is far superior to ANSI → since keyboard width is narrower than shoulder width, hands naturally angle inward, and the extra top space on ISO Enter comes in handy (have used both ISO and ANSI equally for the last decade)  :thumb:
-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D
-purely on form factor alone, M2's are superior to Model M's. F's are fine, because they're like that strange looking face you can't stop staring at.  :-*

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #578 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 10:45:35 »
-ISO is far superior to ANSI → since keyboard width is narrower than shoulder width, hands naturally angle inward, and the extra top space on ISO Enter comes in handy (have used both ISO and ANSI equally for the last decade)  :thumb:
-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D
-purely on form factor alone, M2's are superior to Model M's. F's are fine, because they're like that strange looking face you can't stop staring at.  :-*

Huh?  Are you serious?  I have the opposite opinion about ISO/ANSI.  I guess it's a matter of preference. 

If you are talking about form factor, I suppose that is why Unicomp made the Ultra Classic; instead of just producing M2 keyboards.  There is a difference.  I'd rather get the Classic. 

I have no idea what you are getting at about Model F keyboards. 

Offline Snarfangel

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #579 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 11:24:42 »

  • Full sized keyboards should all be made with the num pad arrow keys, and so on on the left hand side.


Like this?


Or this?

Offline greath

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #580 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 11:34:30 »
The Miami set is hideous.

Offline Asininity

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #581 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 14:40:19 »
Browns are the best switches.

Offline smknjoe

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #582 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 15:23:02 »

-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D


You numb :P pad lovers need to learn to type properly. It's much faster/efficient and more "ergo" to use the number row.
http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
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Offline smknjoe

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #583 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 15:28:43 »
...also caps lock hatred is just a fad....a silly little fad...
It's absolutely necessary for efficient typing and some software requires everything be done in caps.
SSKs for everyone!

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #584 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 15:50:14 »
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

Need to get you some good dyesub then.  A lot of the stuff I see know is that way, but my typewriter stuff is crisp.
I get the sense that dye sublimation is one of those things that's easy to do, but hard to do right. As opposed to doubleshot molding, which appears to just be hard to do.

Dyesub is "just" diffusion, which is technically fairly easy to do.  One of the hard parts is to make sure that it doesn't also diffuse outward and make blurry legends.

(note: not a keycap dyesub expert)

Offline Snarfangel

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #585 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 16:45:18 »

-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D


You numb :P pad lovers need to learn to type properly. It's much faster/efficient and more "ergo" to use the number row.
http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
How's that for an unpopular opinion?


The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.

And for you programmers:

Offline hwood34

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #586 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:03:21 »
vintage Browns are the best switches.
FTFY
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Offline sethk_

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #587 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:04:24 »
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Offline ttzhou

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #588 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:16:10 »
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

i'm pretty sure this is *popular* opinion :P

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #589 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:30:35 »
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.


Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.

Offline hwood34

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #590 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:41:41 »
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))
IV KWK Info Thread & KBK Info Thread IV (out of date)

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Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #591 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:43:09 »
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.


Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.

not a placebo

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #592 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:49:22 »
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

That's why I say old, well used Blacks are smooth, it has nothing to do with the "vintage" pedigree.  It's why well used Browns and Blues can be quite nice compared to new.  Even so, people argue that unused "vintage" blacks are super smooth.


Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))

Press them slowly or off center.  Mine all feel a little gritty, better than new Blacks, but worse than well used Blacks.  If you hit them perfectly straight, they do feel very smooth, but who has perfect up and down key strokes?

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #593 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:07:59 »
The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.
Having a numpad in a little square is stupid. It should be something like:


(Don’t worry too much about the precise shape here, just the general idea.)

Offline Snarfangel

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #594 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:22:28 »
The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.
Having a numpad in a little square is stupid. It should be something like:
Show Image


(Don�t worry too much about the precise shape here, just the general idea.)

That is quite a trip. I like it. :) Though having a number like 7 under the middle finger seems kind of a waste. Perhaps having 9 and 0 on the thumb would be better, and having it split like 1234/5678/90 (with 7 under a wimpy ring finger) would be best.

Or you could order the numbers like Dvorak (ignore the staggered rows)...


7 is off in Siberia, where it belongs.

Offline hwood34

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #595 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:34:30 »
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

That's why I say old, well used Blacks are smooth, it has nothing to do with the "vintage" pedigree.  It's why well used Browns and Blues can be quite nice compared to new.  Even so, people argue that unused "vintage" blacks are super smooth.
Do people argue that? I just see people talking about vintage switches in reference to older, very used switches. Only time I hear about a different material is with blues.

Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))

Press them slowly or off center.  Mine all feel a little gritty, better than new Blacks, but worse than well used Blacks.  If you hit them perfectly straight, they do feel very smooth, but who has perfect up and down key strokes?
well, off center hits are gonna be pressing the stem closer to the housing, so I'm not surprised it's a little less smooth. Though in regular typing I don't really hit off center enough to notice it
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:58:06 by hwood34 »
IV KWK Info Thread & KBK Info Thread IV (out of date)

Old GBs: Gateron Switches (2015) | CF-LX R1 (2015) | CF-LX R2 (2017) | CF-LXXX (2017) | Gen.s Gem Caps (2015)

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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #596 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:57:30 »


That is quite a trip. I like it. :) Though having a number like 7 under the middle finger seems kind of a waste. Perhaps having 9 and 0 on the thumb would be better, and having it split like 1234/5678/90 (with 7 under a wimpy ring finger) would be best.
The idea is to split up the low numbers 0–4, which should be most common, across the “home” position for the five fingers on the right hand, putting 0, 1, and 2 on the strongest fingers.

Then the next 5 digits are split up on the below-home-position keys for each finger. (Not exactly below for the thumb, but you get the idea...)

The overall idea is sorta similar to the Dvorak image you showed, except that in the Dvorak versions all the numbers are on the ****ty hard to reach top row. If you wanted the numbers could be split across the two hands, but I think there are some advantages to having them all on one hand.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #597 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 20:01:57 »
Do people argue that? I just see people talking about vintage switches in reference to older, very used switches. Only time I hear about a different material is with blues.
Yes, if you find mint condition MX black switches from circa 1990, and mint condition MX black switches from 2015, there is an obvious difference between the smoothness of the two. The “vintage” MX switches still aren’t as nice as white space invaders, green Alps, or red Matias switches (among others), but they’re dramatically nicer than modern linear MX switches.

Wear may also affect the switches, but this effect is entirely independent of wear, and is probably about some combination of tooling changes, wear on the tooling, or changes in production process.

Anyway, it’s really not worth arguing about. MX switches and MX clones are crappy switches even at their best, and take ridiculous amounts of modding work to turn into something pleasant. We should all just collectively move on.
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 May 2015, 20:05:24 by jacobolus »

Offline Nai_Calus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #598 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:02:19 »
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.

Agree. How many known F77s are floating about? Less than ten? They're rarer than Kishsavers.0

-ISO is far superior to ANSI → since keyboard width is narrower than shoulder width, hands naturally angle inward, and the extra top space on ISO Enter comes in handy (have used both ISO and ANSI equally for the last decade)  :thumb:
-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D
-purely on form factor alone, M2's are superior to Model M's. F's are fine, because they're like that strange looking face you can't stop staring at.  :-*

Are you smoking crack? I have large hands; I can hit ANSI enter without moving my fingers from the home postion. I can't hit any part of ISO enter without moving my entire hand. :P

Agreed on second point. Gimme mah numbarz

Fs have some weird form factors. Like the one I'm using where I had to make my keyboard tray wider to still fit a mouse on there. XD

Keyboards that bent the plate as a case looks horrible to me.

I don't like Hyperfuse and Penumbra keyset. 

Agreed on bent plate.

Hyperfuse is great in theory but the sets I've seen photos of were incredibly meh. :< Penumbra is ugly.


You numb :P pad lovers need to learn to type properly. It's much faster/efficient and more "ergo" to use the number row.
http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
How's that for an unpopular opinion?

Given the difficulty of reaching the number row, it's pretty unpopular with me. Number row requires reaching or repositioning anyway and the use of both hands. Numpad just requires moving one hand a bit to the right, where it can easily operate by itself quickly and efficiently. As a bonus on QWERTY, if you need to put in Hex, A-F are all on the left hand that's still over on the main section. Embeded numbers on an actually ergo board or a matrix board would be even better from the standpoint of people who don't want their hands to move ever, but between number row and numberpad, giving a less-used hand something to do that it can do quickly and efficiently by itself beats reaching and overworking my left hand even more. It takes me almost no more time to move my hand to the numpad than it does to move to hit the number row, so bah to the number row.

The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.

And for you programmers:
Show Image


Telephones are upside down. The progression from 0 at the bottom to 9 at the top makes perfect sense and puts 1 and 0 next to each other. It's a holdover from calculators and one of the very few sensible things on keyboards. ;)

The Miami set is hideous.

Preach it, brother. The teal is nice, but that hot pink, oof.

Having a numpad in a little square is stupid. It should be something like:
Show Image


(Don�t worry too much about the precise shape here, just the general idea.)

I prefer a separate numpad, but between this and the number row, this is much better by far.

Anyway, it�s really not worth arguing about. MX switches and MX clones are crappy switches even at their best, and take ridiculous amounts of modding work to turn into something pleasant. We should all just collectively move on.

I kind of like stock clears and blue/greens, but given the number of other switches that feel much better(Most Alps/Matias, buckling spring, random old switches like marquadt butterfly), I have to kind of agree. The only downside is of course keycap sets. (Which has been solved on Topre now. Alps... Exists but is imperfect and apparently breaks off in key stems easily, and buckling spring isn't AFAIK even being looked at, though curved plates would make that odd for anything but DSA/Row 3 SA anyway.)
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Offline smknjoe

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #599 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:23:58 »
I understand that using the number row is very unpopular, but to say that it's harder to reach or inefficient in comparison is just "rationalization" at it's finest. Your hands don't even leave the home row if you use the number row. Try it sometime, really try it for a few days or weeks, and see how you like it.
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