Author Topic: Linear clicky switch  (Read 8163 times)

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Offline Metalmind

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Linear clicky switch
« on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 05:30:21 »
A linear switch with an audible click would be my ideal switch. I hate the tactile bump from mx blues either mx browns. Some kind of hybrid of a red and blue switch would be great.

That's because I hate the tactile bump, it's like a earthquake shaking your fingers or like driving on a stone road, but miss the click when using linear switches. And also I learned to float type so I don't bottom out even on reds (at 90wpm).

I have used browns (bah, damn dump), blues (the reset is too slow, bah), greens (they are great), red (cloud of boobs, really), blacks (i love then too even not my favourite).

Want do you think ?

Offline jerue

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 05:43:14 »
The Omron B3GS (Alps clone) switch is the closest I can think of that would fit your bill. Feels very linear with a click but also with very little tactility.

I can't think of an MX variant, maybe panda clears? Though those are on the heavy side, using MX Black/Whites.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 06:03:00 »
Welcome to Geekhack!

That is an unusual request.  Every clicky switch I've tried is tactile, and every linear switch is non-clicky.

Mind you there are lots and lots of switches I haven't tried :))
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Offline Jokrik

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 07:01:15 »
Welcome!

How about white switch?
But you have to find and hand pick one by one, to find the one with constant click
It's as heavy as green, click is softer than blues but sort of linear/tactile

Hard to describe, I've to buy 170 white switches to find enough for my lightsaver with constant click
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Offline chyros

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 07:17:18 »
The only thing I can think of is old Zenith boards. These used linear Alps switches and gad a built-in beeper that sounded when you pressed a key. The beep is soft enough that if you smash the keys you can't hear it.
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Offline jbondeson

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 07:33:08 »
See now this has gone and thrown me off on a mental tangent to design a slider or click-plate that would work on a linear slider...

The click itself isn't difficult, you're simply adding to the resistance of the spring to add some potential to the click mechanism. The real interesting part is after the click. You'd only have the spring left which would lessen the force on post activation. Depending upon how light the switch is it could cause a finger sucking effect, inversely tactile if you will.

The easiest would be to use a non-mechanical click like chyros mentioned, but what's the fun in that? ;)

Offline chyros

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 12:06:21 »
See now this has gone and thrown me off on a mental tangent to design a slider or click-plate that would work on a linear slider...

The click itself isn't difficult, you're simply adding to the resistance of the spring to add some potential to the click mechanism. The real interesting part is after the click. You'd only have the spring left which would lessen the force on post activation. Depending upon how light the switch is it could cause a finger sucking effect, inversely tactile if you will.

The easiest would be to use a non-mechanical click like chyros mentioned, but what's the fun in that? ;)
I suspect it would be very hard to have a truly linear feel on a mechanically clicky board, which is probably why no-one has bothered so far :p .
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Offline davkol

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 14:00:28 »
Buzzer. /thread

I've actually used a linear switch that kinda clicked. It was some Asian unbranded MX clone made in the 90's. There was a leaf inside, that was released by stem movement, consequently hit something else in the switch and then resonated. It felt weird and sounded hollow. I didn't notice any bump whatsoever.

Offline jbondeson

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 14:15:23 »
I've actually used a linear switch that kinda clicked. It was some Asian unbranded MX clone made in the 90's. There was a leaf inside, that was released by stem movement, consequently hit something else in the switch and then resonated. It felt weird and sounded hollow. I didn't notice any bump whatsoever.

Seems doable if you used the spring decompression to reset the mechanism. I'm surprised they did that with an MX clone though as it seems more like a solution I'd use on an alps switch.

Offline Dihedral

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 14:16:05 »
I had this idea a while back. I think I would prefer linear switches with a click as they would give me that bit of feedback which feels missing from linears.

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 14:37:46 »
get to work on a design with a linear stem and a click leaf

or maybe use the barrel on the switch bottom and get some sort of plastic piece in there like the plastic clicky pens have... the motion will be linear in feel, but also contain an audible click

but this is just in theory...
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Offline Altis

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 17:08:16 »
The HiTek Space Invaders would be the best bet I think.

They have a switch that's referred to as "clicky", but it isn't the same as the "tactile clicky" in that you don't really feel the click, you just hear it.

In fact the linear and clicky switches are exactly the same except for a little white plastic piece that tracks in a groove along the back of the switch. You can remove the clicker piece and you have the linear switch.

The click is also pretty subtle on them. More like a "tick" midway through the press. They're also just great switches all around and very stable.
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Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 17:50:45 »
This is quite an interesting concept. I might have to get a board with those clickey space invaders!

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 17:54:24 »
The only thing I can think of is old Zenith boards. These used linear Alps switches and gad a built-in beeper that sounded when you pressed a key. The beep is soft enough that if you smash the keys you can't hear it.

The beep on the ZKB-2 isn't a tactile response though.  If you go for a type on one of those boards with the beeper disabled, you just have a linear switch.  A damn fine linear switch, but not tactile one bit.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 17:58:16 »
The Omron B3GS (Alps clone) switch is the closest I can think of that would fit your bill. Feels very linear with a click but also with very little tactility.
Only the cyan B3G-S switches are not-very-tactile (but yeah, the OP might like them). The amber ones are extremely tactile.

Both types are pretty rare, the cyan ones especially so.

To the OP: sounds like what you really want is a linear switch and a separate clicker in the keyboard.

One other thing to consider though: maybe what you dislike is just MX blue/brown switches specifically, rather than clicky switches in general. I also recommend trying out an IBM Model F sometime, or a nice clicky Alps board.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 July 2015, 18:07:04 by jacobolus »

Offline Altis

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 18:03:11 »
This is quite an interesting concept. I might have to get a board with those clickey space invaders!

They're really great.

I ended up losing one of the little plastic clickers while doing a thorough cleaning, so I have a linear switch. I learned that you can just take them out and put them in pretty easily, so you could mix them up as you'd like.

The nice thing is that they all still feel the same regardless of the clicker piece.

The clicker piece is a very small and light piece of plastic that follows a > shaped groove up the back of the switch plunger. As it travels up, it passes the vertex of the >, which makes a click but doesn't really take any force.
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Offline chyros

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 18:07:39 »
The only thing I can think of is old Zenith boards. These used linear Alps switches and gad a built-in beeper that sounded when you pressed a key. The beep is soft enough that if you smash the keys you can't hear it.

The beep on the ZKB-2 isn't a tactile response though.  If you go for a type on one of those boards with the beeper disabled, you just have a linear switch.  A damn fine linear switch, but not tactile one bit.
Uhhh isn't that kind of the whole point? XD
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 18:07:46 »
The nice thing is that they all still feel the same regardless of the clicker piece.
That’s an exaggeration. The clicky ones are noticeably tactile, while the linear ones are very smooth.

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 18:11:00 »
The only thing I can think of is old Zenith boards. These used linear Alps switches and gad a built-in beeper that sounded when you pressed a key. The beep is soft enough that if you smash the keys you can't hear it.

The beep on the ZKB-2 isn't a tactile response though.  If you go for a type on one of those boards with the beeper disabled, you just have a linear switch.  A damn fine linear switch, but not tactile one bit.
Uhhh isn't that kind of the whole point? XD

I had to reread OP.  Disregard my comment.  ZKB-2 is the board for this person. 

I should really clean up the ones I have and get rid of them.

Offline Altis

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 18:22:57 »
The nice thing is that they all still feel the same regardless of the clicker piece.
That’s an exaggeration. The clicky ones are noticeably tactile, while the linear ones are very smooth.

I just checked both my clicky Space Invader keyboards and there is nothing like a tactile point in them. Even when pressing very very slowly, there is perhaps a faint trace of when the clicker ticks, but you'd be hard pressed to feel is even slowly. You definitely don't feel anything like a tactile switch when typing; they are effectively linear.

Perhaps the genuinely linear (often white) HiTeks are smoother in some sense, but the clicky HiTeks don't have any tactile breaking point like you do on MX Blue/Green, tactile Alps, or tactile notch like MX Brown/Clear, or tactile hump like Topre.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 19:08:21 »
It is hard for me to imagine a solution outside of a linear switch with an external beeper.

Although "tactile" and "clicky" are not exactly the same, they are very closely inter-related.

My ultimate preference would be the opposite of the OP's: a distinctly tactile switch that is not audibly "clicky"
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Offline Melvang

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 19:23:00 »
I think the closest you are going to get with clickey linears would be a linear switch custom board wired up to an xwhatsit controller and then install a solenoid.  The downside to this is with the solenoid installed you can't have indicator LEDs with the current version.
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Offline VoteForDavid

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 19:54:24 »
I would be shocked if you can't find a freeware program to add a click from every keypress, which comes out the speakers of your computer.

If it HAS to come from the keyboard and you like MX Reds, put a clicker/buzzer in the keyboard. 

If it HAS to come from the switches, it sounds like you need to find some Space Invaders.
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 20:32:36 »
If the click is not fake, the click mechanism will generally add at least some tactility.

Take the ProWorld switch for example...more or less an MX Black copy plus a click leaf. Even though the stem is a lot like an MX Black, (according to reports) it feels tactile, not linear.

(P.S. Somebody totally needs to do something similar to the ProWorld switch but using the sensing method (or something similar) from A4Tech's LK switches. Optical clicky switch FTW!).
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Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 21:08:27 »
This is quite an interesting concept. I might have to get a board with those clickey space invaders!

They're really great.

I ended up losing one of the little plastic clickers while doing a thorough cleaning, so I have a linear switch. I learned that you can just take them out and put them in pretty easily, so you could mix them up as you'd like.

The nice thing is that they all still feel the same regardless of the clicker piece.

The clicker piece is a very small and light piece of plastic that follows a > shaped groove up the back of the switch plunger. As it travels up, it passes the vertex of the >, which makes a click but doesn't really take any force.

Thanks for the info. Do you know where I might look to find one? Or what I might be looking for?

Offline Altis

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 15 July 2015, 22:56:58 »
This is quite an interesting concept. I might have to get a board with those clickey space invaders!

They're really great.

I ended up losing one of the little plastic clickers while doing a thorough cleaning, so I have a linear switch. I learned that you can just take them out and put them in pretty easily, so you could mix them up as you'd like.

The nice thing is that they all still feel the same regardless of the clicker piece.

The clicker piece is a very small and light piece of plastic that follows a > shaped groove up the back of the switch plunger. As it travels up, it passes the vertex of the >, which makes a click but doesn't really take any force.

Thanks for the info. Do you know where I might look to find one? Or what I might be looking for?

I got both of mine on eBay. Search for "NMB keyboard" or "space invaders". Watch out that many NMB keyboards are rubber dome (and they're still be listed as "clicky" on eBay). The RT101 is a safe bet, or if there are photos that show the switch itself.

Better yet, looks like this seller has a bunch of them going for $30.

link

They really are a gem of a keyboard. I'm surprised they aren't brought up more since they're well liked by those who have them. Might even get another for myself.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 July 2015, 23:02:07 by Altis »
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 05:53:43 »
It is hard for me to imagine a solution outside of a linear switch with an external beeper.

Although "tactile" and "clicky" are not exactly the same, they are very closely inter-related.

My ultimate preference would be the opposite of the OP's: a distinctly tactile switch that is not audibly "clicky"

MX browns or clears?
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Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 06:38:23 »
This is quite an interesting concept. I might have to get a board with those clickey space invaders!

They're really great.

I ended up losing one of the little plastic clickers while doing a thorough cleaning, so I have a linear switch. I learned that you can just take them out and put them in pretty easily, so you could mix them up as you'd like.

The nice thing is that they all still feel the same regardless of the clicker piece.

The clicker piece is a very small and light piece of plastic that follows a > shaped groove up the back of the switch plunger. As it travels up, it passes the vertex of the >, which makes a click but doesn't really take any force.

Thanks for the info. Do you know where I might look to find one? Or what I might be looking for?

I got both of mine on eBay. Search for "NMB keyboard" or "space invaders". Watch out that many NMB keyboards are rubber dome (and they're still be listed as "clicky" on eBay). The RT101 is a safe bet, or if there are photos that show the switch itself.

Better yet, looks like this seller has a bunch of them going for $30.

link

They really are a gem of a keyboard. I'm surprised they aren't brought up more since they're well liked by those who have them. Might even get another for myself.

Thanks! I'll take a look.

The seller PM'd me actually, but I'm going to try to wait before buying one since I've spent quite a bit already this month =/

Offline Shaussman

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 07:53:59 »
It is hard for me to imagine a solution outside of a linear switch with an external beeper.

Although "tactile" and "clicky" are not exactly the same, they are very closely inter-related.

My ultimate preference would be the opposite of the OP's: a distinctly tactile switch that is not audibly "clicky"

MX browns or clears?

Browns don't really have a super tactile feeling, though.
MX Brown Quickfire XT | MX Clear WASD VP3 | MX Blue Ducky Zero

Offline jbondeson

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 08:58:03 »
I got both of mine on eBay. Search for "NMB keyboard" or "space invaders". Watch out that many NMB keyboards are rubber dome (and they're still be listed as "clicky" on eBay). The RT101 is a safe bet, or if there are photos that show the switch itself.

Better yet, looks like this seller has a bunch of them going for $30.

link

They really are a gem of a keyboard. I'm surprised they aren't brought up more since they're well liked by those who have them. Might even get another for myself.

For the record that seller is XMIT here on GH and DT. You can see his sale thread here on GH 

It's easy to tell since he has so many keyboards in his garage right now he has to code them with GUIDs!  :))

Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 09:41:24 »
For the record that seller is XMIT here on GH and DT. You can see his sale thread here on GH 

It's easy to tell since he has so many keyboards in his garage right now he has to code them with GUIDs!  :))

Thanks for linking to his thread. Saves me the trouble of finding it.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 17:02:21 »
It is hard for me to imagine a solution outside of a linear switch with an external beeper.

Although "tactile" and "clicky" are not exactly the same, they are very closely inter-related.

My ultimate preference would be the opposite of the OP's: a distinctly tactile switch that is not audibly "clicky"

MX browns or clears?

Browns don't really have a super tactile feeling, though.

True, although they have quite a big following.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 17:13:56 »
When and if I decide to get one or more Cherry boards, jailhouse green and ergo clear are the ones that interest me.
"We must adjust to changing times and still hold to unchanging principles." – The bold and brilliant dream which excited the founders of this Nation still awaits its consummation. Ours was the first society openly to define itself in terms of both spirituality and of human liberty. It is that unique self–definition which has given us an exceptional appeal, but it also imposes on us a special obligation: to take on those moral duties which, when assumed, seem invariably to be in our own best interests.
The American dream endures. We must once again have full faith in our country – and in one another. I believe America can be better. We can be even stronger than before. Let our recent mistakes bring a resurgent commitment to the basic principles of our Nation, for we know that if we despise our own government we have no future. We recall in special times when we have stood briefly, but magnificently, united. In those times no prize was beyond our grasp.
But we cannot dwell upon remembered glory. We cannot afford to drift. Our Government must at the same time be both competent and compassionate. Our Nation can be strong abroad only if it is strong at home. And we know that the best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation. To be true to ourselves, we must be true to others. We must not behave in foreign places so as to violate our rules and standards here at home, for we know that the trust which our Nation earns is essential to our strength. 
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Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 20:41:46 »
It is hard for me to imagine a solution outside of a linear switch with an external beeper.

Although "tactile" and "clicky" are not exactly the same, they are very closely inter-related.

My ultimate preference would be the opposite of the OP's: a distinctly tactile switch that is not audibly "clicky"

MX browns or clears?

Browns don't really have a super tactile feeling, though.

True, although they have quite a big following.

I can't understand why. They're just so... meh.

Offline Altis

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 21:17:53 »
MX browns or clears?

Browns don't really have a super tactile feeling, though.

True, although they have quite a big following.

I can't understand why. They're just so... meh.

Browns are widely available, more quiet than blue (not clicky), and just tactile enough to not be linear.

I'm not crazy about them, but they're easy to get and easy to live with.

It's an easy middle ground to start from, especially.
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Keytrak (Blue Alps) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- G80-1800 (MX Blue) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad

Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 21:43:17 »
MX browns or clears?

Browns don't really have a super tactile feeling, though.

True, although they have quite a big following.

I can't understand why. They're just so... meh.

Browns are widely available, more quiet than blue (not clicky), and just tactile enough to not be linear.

I'm not crazy about them, but they're easy to get and easy to live with.

It's an easy middle ground to start from, especially.

Yea, I guess I understand that, but they're probably my least favorite switch that I've used.
I have a Minila Air with browns and I rarely use it. Tried it with different sets of caps, o-rings, still haven't been that happy with it.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 03:02:21 »
What is happening to GH? 35 replies and nobody has mentioned using a software click as a solution like ClicKey: https://www.grc.com/freeware/clickey.htm

The other options would be a buzzer or a solenoid in the keyboard itself.

Any switch that clicks will have some slight tactile effect.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline chyros

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 03:19:30 »
Any switch that clicks will have some slight tactile effect.
Yeah, that's what I figured as well, or at least I can't think of a mechanism that taps energy off for mechanical energy storage while keeping the parent mechanism fully linear before as well as after release. Everything would either have a pressure ramp before, sudden release of pressure after, or both. 
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Offline Altis

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 08:01:26 »
Any switch that clicks will have some slight tactile effect.
Yeah, that's what I figured as well, or at least I can't think of a mechanism that taps energy off for mechanical energy storage while keeping the parent mechanism fully linear before as well as after release. Everything would either have a pressure ramp before, sudden release of pressure after, or both.

The exception to this that in aware of is the HiTek Space Invaders.

There's no buildup or pushing through on their "clicky" switch, unlike their "tactile" switch.

The piece that makes the click is pretty well imperceptible since it's just a tiny piece of plastic that makes a "tick" sound when it changes direction in the < shaped groove on the plunger.

You can press the key slowly enough that it doesn't make that noise, even.
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Keytrak (Blue Alps) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- G80-1800 (MX Blue) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad

Offline Shaussman

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 09:13:21 »
I can't understand why. They're just so... meh.

They're decently light, they have a bit of feeling to them (I can't stand linears because there's no tactility at all), and they're quiet. Overall pretty nice switches.

Clears are better, but browns are rather good as well.
MX Brown Quickfire XT | MX Clear WASD VP3 | MX Blue Ducky Zero

Offline jbondeson

  • Posts: 470
Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 09:23:25 »
What is happening to GH? 35 replies and nobody has mentioned using a software click as a solution like ClicKey: https://www.grc.com/freeware/clickey.htm

The other options would be a buzzer or a solenoid in the keyboard itself.

Now to be fair chyros and I were talking non-mechancial clicks in posts 4 and 5. And if you wait for the key press event to be signaled all the way into the OS and to user land, you're going to have a noticeable delay. You really need the keyboard to be signaling directly.

Any switch that clicks will have some slight tactile effect.

See, where's the fun if we just dismiss this out of hand? I've thought of all sorts of absurdly expensive ways to make clicks without tactile responses in the last day!

I'm thinking switchable magnets right now!  ;D

Offline chyros

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 10:52:35 »
What is happening to GH? 35 replies and nobody has mentioned using a software click as a solution like ClicKey: https://www.grc.com/freeware/clickey.htm

The other options would be a buzzer or a solenoid in the keyboard itself.

Now to be fair chyros and I were talking non-mechancial clicks in posts 4 and 5. And if you wait for the key press event to be signaled all the way into the OS and to user land, you're going to have a noticeable delay. You really need the keyboard to be signaling directly.

Any switch that clicks will have some slight tactile effect.

See, where's the fun if we just dismiss this out of hand? I've thought of all sorts of absurdly expensive ways to make clicks without tactile responses in the last day!

I'm thinking switchable magnets right now!  ;D
Haha yeah I had thought of magnets too, but magnets are still a two-way interaction so whatever pushes the clicker will resist on the slider. I can think of many linear clicker mechanisms, but those would have a click completely dependent on the speed and force of the key push, so they'd be very silent when pushing slowly and much louder when pressed fast.
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Offline jbondeson

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 11:35:45 »
Haha yeah I had thought of magnets too, but magnets are still a two-way interaction so whatever pushes the clicker will resist on the slider. I can think of many linear clicker mechanisms, but those would have a click completely dependent on the speed and force of the key push, so they'd be very silent when pushing slowly and much louder when pressed fast.

XMIT's NCR K430 post gave me an idea with electromagnets where you could use a similar effect to trigger the magnet. Resetting could be done with either mechanical resistance which the magnet overcomes (need a strong magnet), a second electromagnet (more complicated electronics), or mount the click mechanism vertically so that "off" means the clicker falls with gravity.

By the time I'm done these switches will make old hall effect's look dinky in comparison.  :))


Offline chyros

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 14:30:00 »
Haha yeah I had thought of magnets too, but magnets are still a two-way interaction so whatever pushes the clicker will resist on the slider. I can think of many linear clicker mechanisms, but those would have a click completely dependent on the speed and force of the key push, so they'd be very silent when pushing slowly and much louder when pressed fast.

XMIT's NCR K430 post gave me an idea with electromagnets where you could use a similar effect to trigger the magnet. Resetting could be done with either mechanical resistance which the magnet overcomes (need a strong magnet), a second electromagnet (more complicated electronics), or mount the click mechanism vertically so that "off" means the clicker falls with gravity.

By the time I'm done these switches will make old hall effect's look dinky in comparison.  :))
Yeah, I guess it would have to be based on a magnetic valve system where the valve output, driving the clicker, would have to be completely separate from the slider mechanism. This way the clicker would be electrical rather than mechanical in origin, however. Good thing is that this system could even allow a clicker that ticks continuously as long as the switch held down, in theory. However, using a magnetic valve and therefore delegating the clicker to electronics rather than mechanics, you go back to square 1 and you might as well use the electrical beeper that Zenith used :p .
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Offline jbondeson

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Re: Linear clicky switch
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 17 July 2015, 14:57:23 »
I totally have a rationalization that goes like this: the click itself is done by the mechanical action of a piece of metal hitting something! Therefore, totally mechanical.

Ignore the man behind the curtain!  :-X