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Foundation

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Shapey Fiend:
I'll have to give this a look. I recognised the Long Room library in the trailer right away it's actually filmed near where I live.

tp4tissue:
lee pace, this guy is extremely swole for his age.

HungerMechanic:

I think I'm going to have to stop watching the series, so I'll have to evaluate it now.

The changes and 'improvements' the showrunners have been making to the series take it further and further away from psychohistory.

Psychohistory was supposed to be this sociological concept that models and predicts society in a similar way perhaps to gas dynamics. You don't know where an individual particle is going to end up or what it will do, but you can sort of predict the particles as a whole.

But so much hinges on individuals this season, from whether Seldon should be on the ship or not, to Dornick, should so-and-so have a kid, the decisions of the individual emperors, etc... But in the books, it takes a really exotic and unpredictable individual to endanger the plan.

Then there's all the added drama with the Anachreons and now they're adding the imperial battleship! They're mushing it all together so they can keep the same characters, and it's clear that the first crises and their resolutions are going to be derailed from the book.

If this was a genuine adaptation of Foundation, then it would be following the unfolding of the plan over generations. This is a science-fictional concept that you'd expect an ambitious show to adopt. It's not so much about the individuals, they're just people who occupy a predictable and needed role at the time. The story is the unfolding of the plan, and the challenges to it. It's the unfolding of history, and the attempt to conform it to a plan by scientists.

That's what an ambitious production would have attempted. But the showrunners seem to want to do a cut-rate Game of Thrones + stereotypical dry frontier planet, and here's a bunch of characters we threw into a blender. They aimed for mediocrity.

I'm probably going to stop watching the show, because I want to preserve my memories of the book. I skipped recent Alien sequels for precisely this reason: say to no poor adaptations. Now, maybe I'm wrong and this will all make sense in the end. But I've long ago stopped giving showrunners the benefit of the doubt.

Here are some quotes from a discussion of Episode 6 that I found myself at least partially in agreement with [SPOILERS]:



--- Quote ---
Maz
11 hours ago
Every time the show transitions back to Terminus, I groan. "Foundation" is supposed to be grandiose. It deals with galaxy-faring civilizations set over thousands of years during their respective rises and falls. The aspect of the show that accomplishes this is everything to do with the Empire. The plotlines related to Trantor, the Cleons, and Illuminism/religiosity are riveting and I'm looking forward to the payoff, which is odd because it's for the most part original content and not inspired by anything from the books (which I love) . The other aspect of the show is Terminus and the Foundation. The writers have managed to make the most interesting part of the books into the most drab part of show. The character of Salvor Hardin has been butchered and the actress that portrays him does so in a stilted and unconvincing way.

The idea of psychohistory has seemingly been misinterpreted by the showrunners, or we the audience are currently waiting for the "told you so" moment towards the end of the season that reaffirms Asimov's version of it. If we continue down the path of singular individuals being able to alter the Plan this early, the entire idea of psychohistory will seem silly to non-readers.

PanamaLane
4 hours ago (edited)
Excellent points, was thinking much the same. The whole point of psychohistory is that an individual does not matter, but instead at times of crisis some individuals will inevitably serve pivotal roles that are predictable. It's kind of a massive problem when an individual can alter the plan i.e. the mule. The only real purpose of the second foundation is to ensure no individual can alter the plan. So, I'm really scratching my head over what the show runners were thinking, though I am holding onto some hope that maybe this will be revealed when the vault opens.

I'm mean the entire "religion" of Seldonism is based around the idea that no matter what you or anyone else in the galaxy does, the Foundation will inevitably prevail.




rockdale-gym
1 day ago (edited)
I'm not sure if this is just me. However, Empire continues to be the MOST interesting part of the show. I've read the books and it is so strange to me; that the most interesting part -- the clones, is something that doesn't exist in the books.
The most interesting part in the books, Terminus is the most boring in the show. It feels like it is written by another person and is literally a separate show sometimes.... like in Episode 3. The pacing is off, the tone is weird. I don't know and I can't the only one who feels this way. It's super strange ...


Yeah Terminus a planet of 1000 should NOT be vital yet, nothing should be vital yet, empire falls in 500+ years why should we care about the minor ups and downs pre500 years, , , but the writers wanted to be exciting,, , But at least it aint boring.  . . .




Terminus is BORING because in the books, at this point of time, the planet was the point of contention between three provinces which had become independent kingdoms. Salvor Hardin guaranteed all three kingdoms access to technology to avoid a very costly war among them.

However, in the show, Terminus is a boring dusty town instead of the most advanced city in the edge of the galaxy. Salvor is boring. And the entire plot has been dragging a lot.



 @elgranqenk  Terminus goes from being the most advanced high tech city/world outside of Trantor  to a candidate for something from Mad Max...it staggers me how badly the makers of the show have got this wrong but its only one of a long list of changes that frankly suck..
On its own the show is OK and entertaining but it really its Foundation in name only...



--- End quote ---

HungerMechanic:
Ultimately, both Foundation and the Empire are supposed to be grandiose.

The scenes with the 3 emperors confirm this: for many viewers, they are more interesting than the scenes that occur on Terminus. This shouldn't be.

Terminus itself is supposed to be more advanced by the time we see it. Isn't there supposed to be 100,000 people doing the work of scientists? Instead we get some [generic dirt planet]. Taking the show into a rustic direction that makes Borderlands look advanced isn't in the spirit of the books.

Trantor is supposed to be this magnificent world than needs many, many planets to sustain it. This is mentioned in dialog, but we don't really get to see it. This is the grandaddy of all the galactic empires we see today (Dune, Star Wars, Hyperion). So the scenes on Trantor should show many, many spaceships delivering their cargo, as well as references to the agricultural worlds near the core that are dedicated solely to service Trantor (as it would be good foreshadowing). All the technology should be "big iron," at least at the design level, as the Empire isn't supposed to do things like personal shields, personal cloaking devices, etc... It's very big and fairly cumbersome.

So...yeah. Instead of big majestic spaceships that inspired Star Wars and so on, we get family drama, we get important individuals who are super-special and the "key to everything," we get many episodes of a stretched-out barbarian subplot that wasn't supposed to happen yet, Salvor Hardin doesn't even warn the imperial ship over the radio about the hidden AA cannon! I don't know. It feels like how Westworld unraveled in Season 2, except it's already happening in Season 1.

Findecanor:
Yeah, the book's first two crises had been compressed into one, for some reason, as if the book wasn't short enough. Hari Sheldon did not influence the events or put any special powers or visions into someone: he only predicted the larger things.

Both times in the book, the crises were solved without any violence, because "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". That phrase is repeated a few times.
The scriptwriters put a lot of violence into the series because ? ...  :rolleyes:

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