Post by: Windeh on Tue, 23 October 2018, 09:58:18
- 24-Dec-2018
Updates:
- 23rd October 2018 - Interest Check Posted
- 26th October 2018 - Placed order for Prototypes
- 11th November 2018 - Prototype Received
- 18th November 2018 - Design Finalized, Pre-GB IC Form Posted
- 23rd November 2018 - Master Sample prototype ordered, Anodizing color samples ordered
- 13th December 2018 - Received Reflex Master Sample prototype HERE (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97859.msg2692305#msg2692305).
- 16th December 2018 - Reflex Typing Test Posted HERE (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97859.msg2692533#msg2692533).
- 18th December 2018 - Received Paradox Master Sample prototype HERE (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97859.msg2693546#msg2693546).
- 19th December 2018 - Removed Blue Grey color and copper plate option. Details in THIS (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97859.msg2693683#msg2693683) post.
- 20th December 2018 - Color Samples Posted HERE (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97859.msg2694098#msg2694098)
- 20th December 2018 - GB Pricing announced HERE (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97859.msg2694111#msg2694111)
- 24th December 2018 - GB Thread up!! HERE (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=98685.0)
[attachimg=11]
Hi geekhack,
I'm Windeh, a relative new member of the community.
After a few frustrating attempts at sniper-submitting google forms & raffling GB spot from popular designers and failing, I asked myself, why not just design a keyboard myself? ;)
I thought about what would make MY perfect keyboard? With a few ideas in mind, I set about downloading Fusion 360.
.
.
.
A couple of YouTube Tutorials later, shapes resembling a rectangular block started to form…
First, let me highlight some of the more unique features of my design;
Mounting.
[attach=1] [attach=5]
As per the title of this IC, the plate is Sandwiched between O-Rings, with no part of the plate in contact with either the casing or the screw, creating a true “Floating” design. I call this mounting method “O-ring-Sandwich-Floating mount”. You heard it here first.
Unlike traditional "Gasket" mount, where most contact between the gasket & the plate is desired together with high clamping force to dampen all vibrations, this mounting method more closely resembles a xylophone, with minimal contact surface and added isolation between the plate and the rest of the keyboard. The design when tightened, does not clamp directly onto the plate through the O-Ring, but stops when the O-Ring posts on the top & bottom of the case meet. Depending on the Durometer (hardness) of the O-Ring, the plate will experience a stronger or lighter clamping force, therefore change the way it is allowed to resonates (and to a smaller degree, feel). By simply changing the hardness of the O-Ring, you can easily tune the resonance & tone of the plate.
Why the O-Ring Cutout?
[attach=7] [attach=8] [attach=9]
Proper application of O-Rings requires that they are supported on both sides perpendicular to the force exerted. Without the support of the side wall created by the cutout, the O-Ring would be easily squashed, causing rapid deformation & deterioration of the material, while not providing enough pressure onto the plate. The O-Ring would start to harden & crack, altering the acoustics & feel of the keyboard with time, and possibly cause looseness of the plate.
There is, in my opinion, no alternative method to apply the O-Ring in this application.
Floating?
[attach=10]
There is a minimum of 0.5mm gap between the plate & any hard surface of the case.
Spacebar “MEME” cut.
[attach=17]
The first time finished building my TX60, I immediately noticed that with such a rigid sandwich mount, the spacebar makes a loud “KUNK” every time it bottoms out. I know there are mods out there that addresses this “feature”, however I wanted to try to address this from the keyboard design side, and tried to reduce the rigidity of the mounting post closest to the spacebar, to give it some “flex” where it is needed the most.
ANSI layout only.
[attach=16]
After having to deal with a wonky “\” key on an universal layout, I said “No more”.
Compatibility with existing PCBs on the market.
[attach=2]
Not gonna lie. I have no knowledge on PCB design and no friends with that skill set. I don't want to be tied to a proprietary PCB that you’re SOL when it dies down the road. I will not force RGB, Hot Swap Sockets, Bluetooth, or JigOn down your throat. You choose your poison.
Hate tall fronts?
[attach=3]
This one is under 20mm.
Two Very different chassis designs and focus, same plate & top.
[attach=4]
Because choices.
I think I have gone on long enough… Let me introduce the Reflex and Paradox 60% Keyboards;
Reflex : The name refers to the reflex port on a speaker system. I heard people in the community are big on sounds, so I took a literal approach, and thought of the PCB & Plate as the diaphragm on a loudspeaker, then proceeded to designed a reflex port for all that juicy auditory goodness to escape out the bottom of the case. And the weight. You can't forget about the weight.
[attachimg=12]
[attachimg=13]
Next up, it’s the Paradox :
The MK Community is a hard place to be an enthusiast. You want to throw your money at something, but it is thrown back at your face in 41 seconds. ;)
Not gonna pretend that the Paradox didn’t take inspiration from other keyboards. But with the 60% layout, plate mounting method, weight quantity & design, material and all of the above, I believe there are enough uniqueness that there is a place for the Paradox to exist in the MK community.
[attachimg=14]
[attachimg=15]
Now, some details.
- Case: Standard configuration in 6063 aluminium, optional upgrade to 7075-T6 aluminium
- Weight: Sandblasted/Polished Brass finish options. Clear coating option for sandblasted only, as coating does not adhere well to polished brass
- Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Screw
- O-Rings: Will include a few different hardness/material O-Rings
- Colour: For 6063 Aluminium - Normal Anodizing in Black, Dark Grey, Deep Red, Royal Blue, Silver, Rose Gold (maybe). For 7075-T6 Aluminium - Hard Anodize in Black only. All anodizing in Matt finish only.
- Plate: Standard kit with Brass plate, optional Aluminium & Brass Plate extras, Sandblasted
- Layout: 60% ANSI WK/WKL with split right shift and optional split backspace & stepped caps lock
- Quantity: 30 total spots
- Timeline: Aiming at December / January GB
- Design: Both Paradox & Reflex will be made, 15 sets of each
- NO PCB INCLUDED IN THIS GB!
- $490 for base kit includes 6063 Case Top (Standard or WKL) & Case Bottom in normal anodizing, Clear Coated / Raw Sandblasted Brass Weight and Raw Sandblasted Brass Plate
- $35 for upgrading to 7075-T6 Case Top & Bottom in Matt Black Hard Coat Anodizing.
- $20 for Polished Brass Weight (Polished on exterior sides only, Raw).
- Extra Plates in Raw Sandblasted Brass ($50) / Sandblasted Aluminium (Anodized Deep Red - $60)
As I said at the beginning of the GB, the keyboard is mainly designed to be MY endgame. If a group buy is happening, it will be a very small quantity to dip my toe in the water and have a feel of what I'm getting myself into.
Feel free to leave comments below, and I will reply when I can.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
[attachimg=6]
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 23 October 2018, 09:58:34
Post by: hayt on Tue, 23 October 2018, 10:01:32
Post by: dantambok on Tue, 23 October 2018, 10:04:42
Post by: PaultheSloth on Tue, 23 October 2018, 10:10:01
Post by: laserbeamspewpew on Tue, 23 October 2018, 11:39:52
Post by: Hako on Tue, 23 October 2018, 12:38:03
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 23 October 2018, 12:50:32
Post by: ChrisSwires on Tue, 23 October 2018, 13:00:29
Post by: Acereconkeys on Tue, 23 October 2018, 13:04:33
Post by: HardcoreDesk on Tue, 23 October 2018, 13:23:17
Post by: hineybush on Tue, 23 October 2018, 13:30:22
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Tue, 23 October 2018, 13:39:38
Post by: Etherealsound on Tue, 23 October 2018, 13:47:15
Post by: Acereconkeys on Tue, 23 October 2018, 13:51:18
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 23 October 2018, 14:23:43
Thanks for the kind words people, really a moral boost ;D
Am I missing something here? For the protoype/jane weight design model, there are 3 screw holes on bottom that sandwich to plate, and then 4 that seem to mount the weight where are the other 3 sandwich screw positions for the top of the plate?
Maybe this will help.
[attach=1]
Post by: hineybush on Tue, 23 October 2018, 14:28:01
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/393396388282761219/504365196509446154/unknown.png)
I've tested it with my prototypes and the o rings definitely provide a difference. Not necessarily in feel as I haven't tested two fully-built boards yet, but absolutely with sound (brass plate) so far.
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 23 October 2018, 14:40:04
I’m going to be that guy...HHKB?
Looks good, the new mount is interesting. Standard 60% layout with split backspace and R Shift will be :thumb: :thumb:
Interesting, I feel like the option of a split backspace is pretty important for a 60% though
Most likely there will not be different top options for standard and HHKB layouts, however split backspace will probably be a sacrifice i'm willing to make.
fwiw, i'm doing an extremely similar style mount (although reversible/removable) with my hbcp:Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/393396388282761219/504365196509446154/unknown.png)
I've tested it with my prototypes and the o rings definitely provide a difference. Not necessarily in feel as I haven't tested two fully-built boards yet, but absolutely with sound (brass plate) so far.
You see, hbcp is one of the GBs I'm super looking forwards to joining, however with my luck I'll probably not get in... Sorry for jumping the gun on the mounting style though ;D ;D what they say about great minds?
I may need to adjust for sandwich tightness once I get my proto, as I'm basically eyeing all the tolerances and hoping for the best ...
Post by: Mcnos on Tue, 23 October 2018, 15:18:56
Edit: nevermind. Put split bs option and I'll be in on it.
Post by: Sshimosawa on Tue, 23 October 2018, 15:27:30
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 23 October 2018, 15:49:15
Post by: SixtyLife on Tue, 23 October 2018, 16:27:21
Post by: Nigolski on Tue, 23 October 2018, 16:48:34
Post by: Jkush463 on Tue, 23 October 2018, 16:50:04
Post by: Acereconkeys on Tue, 23 October 2018, 18:58:05
Interest check poll for which design you prefer is up!! join the poll here: https://goo.gl/forms/zSIoUT1tlY7fELAW2
Thanks for the kind words people, really a moral boost ;D--
Maybe this will help.
(Attachment Link)
Ahhh yes that answers my question. Cool thanks.
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 23 October 2018, 19:31:54
Interesting, I feel like the option of a split backspace is pretty important for a 60% though
Most likely there will not be different top options for standard and HHKB layouts, however split backspace will probably be a sacrifice i'm willing to make.
Guys, stop. I can't keep hurting my funds like this.
Edit: nevermind. Put split bs option and I'll be in on it.
I've added an Interest check option for Split Backspace in the poll form. Go speak your mind! :thumb:
Post by: cucgach on Tue, 23 October 2018, 19:59:23
Post by: dantambok on Tue, 23 October 2018, 20:20:09
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 23 October 2018, 21:43:11
I was gonna do this kind of mounting on my own board
Post by: bthezebra on Tue, 23 October 2018, 21:52:13
Post by: oh_chesteroni on Wed, 24 October 2018, 20:32:14
Post by: SynkRz on Thu, 25 October 2018, 05:04:09
Post by: xantiema on Thu, 25 October 2018, 06:25:12
this looks like a nice little sibling for my jane 2.0
Doubt it, that'd would also entirely kill it for me :p
Post by: DJSwayde on Thu, 25 October 2018, 07:03:44
Post by: R4WBIT on Thu, 25 October 2018, 09:11:54
Post by: JFKroflcopter on Thu, 25 October 2018, 10:07:25
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 25 October 2018, 11:19:48
I have placed an order with one factory for prototypes of both designs, and currently in discussion with another factory that guarantees tolerance to ISO 2768 Grade F (Fine), with QC reports & HD finishing photos for approval and everything...
I think with my choice of material, complicated design & tight tolerance specs, cost for the GB would be insane... :-X
Post by: Mcnos on Thu, 25 October 2018, 11:20:59
Alright guys, quick update...
I have placed an order with one factory for prototypes of both designs, and currently in discussion with another factory that guarantees tolerance to ISO 2768 Grade F (Fine), with QC reports & HD finishing photos for approval and everything...
I think with my choice of material, complicated design & tight tolerance specs, cost for the GB would be insane... :-X
:( :( :( :(
Post by: dantambok on Thu, 25 October 2018, 11:23:02
Post by: slxdegrees on Thu, 25 October 2018, 11:27:52
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 25 October 2018, 12:12:55
Love it, really well thought through and documented IC too. I'll likely be down either way and hope all goes well with the prototype!Hey thanks for the support!! Great fan of your photo/typing videos. :thumb:
Love it I'll take 3Where do I send the invoice? The proto prices are killing me...
I was gonna do this kind of mounting on my own board
Wow, really impressed by both of these boards! Stoked on the reflex, and to see how it sounds.So would I!! It should sound different depending on what material you place the Reflex on... :D
This looks great! Very fond of the paradox design and your thoughts regarding layouts.Thanks! Paradox seems to be a popular choice. Will see how the proto turns out.
So thought out. Well done.Thanks! I do tend to overthink small details... :(
These both seem amazing, The idea of using o-rings like this is certainly very unique. I'd love to participate if it came down to small gbThanks for the support! Seems that the O-Ring mount was the secret sauce for many private projects before I spilled the beans... :p
I really like both of them.
I like it a lot, too. I'm guessing this will be in the ballpark of $600?Thanks Guys!! Hopefully the cost drops substantially with quantity, cus $600 aint gonna cut it currently...
Cool idea! Hope the prototype goes well can't wait to see it.Makes 2 of us. ;)
I like it
i like where this ones going neat for sure.Thanks for the support!
burger mount is best mountNow Burger mount is way awesomer then what I came up with... :(
Awesome idea. Will be following this :D goodluck on the proto!Thanks, hope I don't disappoint!
100% in for the wkl! :thumb:Thanks for the support! I also want a WKL as I actually don't own one...
I really want the paradox board, it looks fantastic!Thanks! Wanted something more subdued to contrast with the loud Reflex design. ;D
Definitely interested if the final version supports ISO! :DThey will definitely support the I, S & O keys... ;)
Reflex will dusk magnet i think but i love the design!!I don't think dust will be of any concern... try sliding your finger across the underside of your monitor, compared to the top side... :D
This looks interesting, I might be interested in joining for either one.Thanks! The first buy will be small so I don't embarrass myself if I cant make MOQ... :-X
It was really hard choosing between the two proposed designs! Also, I like your taste for the layout options :pWKL Best KL
what would be the turnaround time for the proto? really excited to see them both! :pThey quoted ex-factory date early Nov... :eek:
Nice job with your first design, very interested in seeing how your proto turns out!Thanks! Nothing a bit of frustration cant achieve... ;)
Alright guys, quick update...
I have placed an order with one factory for prototypes of both designs, and currently in discussion with another factory that guarantees tolerance to ISO 2768 Grade F (Fine), with QC reports & HD finishing photos for approval and everything...
I think with my choice of material, complicated design & tight tolerance specs, cost for the GB would be insane... :-X
:( :( :( :(
If this is successful, will there be a r2?The real question is, will there be a R1? :-X
All caught up. Have a great day/night guys! :D
Post by: dubious on Thu, 25 October 2018, 12:47:47
The Reflex 'sound ports' seem counter productive if you are trying to reduce sound with gaskets and flexy spacebar cutouts.
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 25 October 2018, 19:19:16
I like the design. My vote is for the Paradox. Really interested in seeing a prototype :thumb:
The Reflex 'sound ports' seem counter productive if you are trying to reduce sound with gaskets and flexy spacebar cutouts.
Thanks for the kind words. :thumb:
I don't think the mounting method used here can really be compared to the traditional "Gasket" mount, where the most contact between the gasket & the plate is desired with high clamping force to dampen all vibrations. In fact this mounting method more closely resembles a xylophone, with minimal contact surface and added isolation between the plate and the rest of the keyboard. Different O-Ring hardness can both have an effect on the typing feel, as well as control the amount of allowed resonance & tone of the plate. Hope that makes sense..
The spacebar cutout is my attempt at trying to bring the bottoming sound of the spacebar inline with the rest of the keys, and not really to reduce overall sound.
This is all in theory anyway, we will find out how it actually performs soon enough. ;D
Post by: duckboi on Thu, 25 October 2018, 20:04:20
Alright, it's 1 am in Singapore, great time to do a /reply allLove it, really well thought through and documented IC too. I'll likely be down either way and hope all goes well with the prototype!Hey thanks for the support!! Great fan of your photo/typing videos. :thumb:Love it I'll take 3Where do I send the invoice? The proto prices are killing me...
I was gonna do this kind of mounting on my own boardWow, really impressed by both of these boards! Stoked on the reflex, and to see how it sounds.So would I!! It should sound different depending on what material you place the Reflex on... :DThis looks great! Very fond of the paradox design and your thoughts regarding layouts.Thanks! Paradox seems to be a popular choice. Will see how the proto turns out.So thought out. Well done.Thanks! I do tend to overthink small details... :(These both seem amazing, The idea of using o-rings like this is certainly very unique. I'd love to participate if it came down to small gbThanks for the support! Seems that the O-Ring mount was the secret sauce for many private projects before I spilled the beans... :pI really like both of them.I like it a lot, too. I'm guessing this will be in the ballpark of $600?Thanks Guys!! Hopefully the cost drops substantially with quantity, cus $600 aint gonna cut it currently...Cool idea! Hope the prototype goes well can't wait to see it.Makes 2 of us. ;)I like iti like where this ones going neat for sure.Thanks for the support!burger mount is best mountNow Burger mount is way awesomer then what I came up with... :(Awesome idea. Will be following this :D goodluck on the proto!Thanks, hope I don't disappoint!100% in for the wkl! :thumb:Thanks for the support! I also want a WKL as I actually don't own one...I really want the paradox board, it looks fantastic!Thanks! Wanted something more subdued to contrast with the loud Reflex design. ;DDefinitely interested if the final version supports ISO! :DThey will definitely support the I, S & O keys... ;)Reflex will dusk magnet i think but i love the design!!I don't think dust will be of any concern... try sliding your finger across the underside of your monitor, compared to the top side... :DThis looks interesting, I might be interested in joining for either one.Thanks! The first buy will be small so I don't embarrass myself if I cant make MOQ... :-XIt was really hard choosing between the two proposed designs! Also, I like your taste for the layout options :pWKL Best KLwhat would be the turnaround time for the proto? really excited to see them both! :pThey quoted ex-factory date early Nov... :eek:Nice job with your first design, very interested in seeing how your proto turns out!Thanks! Nothing a bit of frustration cant achieve... ;)Alright guys, quick update...
I have placed an order with one factory for prototypes of both designs, and currently in discussion with another factory that guarantees tolerance to ISO 2768 Grade F (Fine), with QC reports & HD finishing photos for approval and everything...
I think with my choice of material, complicated design & tight tolerance specs, cost for the GB would be insane... :-X
:( :( :( :(If this is successful, will there be a r2?The real question is, will there be a R1? :-X
All caught up. Have a great day/night guys! :D
nice
Post by: Zilleon on Thu, 25 October 2018, 21:06:35
Post by: ilouis_07 on Thu, 25 October 2018, 21:19:08
Post by: CrazyNun on Fri, 26 October 2018, 01:59:49
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 26 October 2018, 08:11:46
wow good idea man, but what kind of o ring you gonna use(i meant the material)?
Thanks! I'm actually not sure on the O-Ring material yet, probably gonna walk into an gasket store and ask for 12 of every type and hardness of 5 ID, 8 OD O-rings they have, and get to work!! ;D
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 26 October 2018, 09:13:25
[attachimg=1]
Post by: zekkin on Fri, 26 October 2018, 09:23:57
Split backspace support.
(Attachment Link)
(https://i.imgur.com/ReuapwS.png)
These spots are looking quite (perhaps too) thin.
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 26 October 2018, 10:51:16
Split backspace support.
(Attachment Link)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ReuapwS.png)
These spots are looking quite (perhaps too) thin.
It's 0.5mm at the thinnest point, will see how the proto turns out.
[attach=2]
I could always make it like this;
[attach=1]
Trying to have as small a footprint as possible with this mounting method is pushing each material to their limits...
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 26 October 2018, 12:59:36
Split backspace support.
(Attachment Link)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ReuapwS.png)
These spots are looking quite (perhaps too) thin.
Updated the Plate & Bottom. Thought about it and I like it.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 26 October 2018, 22:02:54
The Reflex is a great idea, I've loved the idea of a ported case for a while now, cool to see someone trying it out.
Post by: Remsky on Sat, 27 October 2018, 01:49:17
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 27 October 2018, 02:35:35
I like the idea of the relief cut by the spacebar, I like how the mini's plate is designed (https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/356mini-t5185.html) and the relief cut seems like a similar approach.
The Reflex is a great idea, I've loved the idea of a ported case for a while now, cool to see someone trying it out.
Thanks for the link, didn't know that there were similar attempt to tame the spacebar thud from way back. Very cool. :thumb:
I like the idea, but I dont really see durometer affecting much unless you are comparing two extremely different durometers. It is true that the o rings will dampen the sound, regardless of what durometer, but also no matter what durometer you do, the same torque will applied, so different durometers probably wont have that much of a difference on plate flex and overall feel. Really like the direction though.
Thanks for the comment! I agree that for flex & feel, plate material has the biggest effect. I do also believe that the mind subconsciously link the sound to the feel of the keyboard, with a higher pitch feedback linked to a harsher bottoming feel.
The design when tightened, does not clamp directly onto the plate through the O-Ring, but stops when the O-Ring posts on the top & bottom of the case meet. Depending on the Durometer of the O-Ring, the plate will experience a stronger or lighter clamping force, therefore change the way it is allowed to resonates (and to a much smaller degree, feel).
Hope that makes sense.
By the way, love these types of discussions. :thumb: Genuinely surprised no one has asked what are the color options, or even what color I ordered for the prototype... :p
Post by: matrixzj on Sat, 27 October 2018, 04:51:35
Post by: 1023andy on Sat, 27 October 2018, 11:06:24
1. You said the price will be expensive, will it be over $350?
2. What color options do you have in mind?
3. Is there going to be brass plate? If not, what kind of material would be used?
4. When will the sample be made?
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 27 October 2018, 16:26:09
for layout, hhkb will be considered ? I like it very much. But it is not a big problem , and I like this design. Even w/o hhkb layout, I will join it.
There are no plans currently for HHKB or standard layout. I think offering too many option will further raise the cost of what I foresee is already a very expensive keyboard...
I have some questions.
1. You said the price will be expensive, will it be over $350?
2. What color options do you have in mind?
3. Is there going to be brass plate? If not, what kind of material would be used?
4. When will the sample be made?
1. Pricing is still undetermined. I'm currently designing the keyboard without too much concern on production cost, and the prototypes are hella expensive. Once the design is finalized and quoted, I will again gauge interest with the final pricing, and determine the quantity for the GB. (I read somewhere that for every 10 IC Form entries saying they want to join the GB, only 1 will follow through... :p)
2. Depending on what color 7075-T6 works well with, as the material is not as easy to dye as other aluminium grades, especially since I'm looking at offering Type III hard coat anodizing. Dark Grey & Blue Grey seem popular these days, so they're likely a safe bet.
3. Brass plate will be the default option, while aluminium might also be offered.
4. The first prototype(s) is currently in production, and should reach me sometime early November.
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 28 October 2018, 03:06:35
Reflex 60
[attachimg=1]
Paradox 60
[attachimg=2]
Post by: garbo on Sun, 28 October 2018, 06:09:12
The weight coming through to the angled back on the paradox looks super good to me, though, and the bottom is cleaner without the recession.
Post by: 1023andy on Sun, 28 October 2018, 07:33:09
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 29 October 2018, 08:51:02
Thanks for your time!!
https://goo.gl/forms/KhUIRfux95XVa2v72
Hmm I'd voted for the paradox design in the poll, but I'm starting to think the reflex's grille looks kinda cool. Is that something that adds a lot of machine time/cost as compared to the flat bottom?
The weight coming through to the angled back on the paradox looks super good to me, though, and the bottom is cleaner without the recession.
The design of the Reflex bottom casing does incur an additional 10-15% across the quoted pricing for CNC machining, however the weight of the Paradox costs much more then the weight of the Reflex to make... I would suggest to just choose the design you like best, as the difference in pricing will not be significant between the 2 designs.
Post by: hayt on Mon, 29 October 2018, 08:53:22
I prefer the design with the grill, looks more original
Post by: 1023andy on Mon, 29 October 2018, 09:20:37
Post by: stxfreak on Mon, 29 October 2018, 10:23:18
Submitted :)
I prefer the design with the grill, looks more original
might be because the other one is just the jane weight, so I agree.
Post by: typischt on Mon, 29 October 2018, 10:27:20
I really like both designs, but would probably be more interested in the reflex since I'd be interested how it would sound.
According to your explanation from above, I'm guessing it would be too much to have the weight of the Paradox and the grills from the Reflex? :)
Since there is no comment field in the form (I'd highly suggest to add one of those): Can't really judge colors and weight material from the description alone, so for me those two things almost certainly wouldn't be the deciding factor whether I'd get one or not.
Really looking forward to this and would likely be in depending on time of GB and costs. :)
Post by: matrixzj on Mon, 29 October 2018, 11:19:19
I like paradox very much :)
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 29 October 2018, 11:43:56
Submitted :)
I prefer the design with the grill, looks more original
I too like the Reflex. I don't think you're sacrificing anything going either way, both designs IMO stands on its own.
Submitted. I did the form twice cuz i forgot to choose shiny/matt option. How would the bronze tint on hard coat grey would look like?
I turned on form editing. I too would like to know what the hard coat dark grey looks like. Lucky one of the prototypes are finished in that option and should arrive next week!! :cool:
Filled out.
I really like both designs, but would probably be more interested in the reflex since I'd be interested how it would sound.
According to your explanation from above, I'm guessing it would be too much to have the weight of the Paradox and the grills from the Reflex? :)
Since there is no comment field in the form (I'd highly suggest to add one of those): Can't really judge colors and weight material from the description alone, so for me those two things almost certainly wouldn't be the deciding factor whether I'd get one or not.
Really looking forward to this and would likely be in depending on time of GB and costs. :)
Added the comments section. Thanks for the suggestion!
Sorry about the lack of images for comparison... for now I think we have to rely on our imagination until I receive the proto, it would at least cover 2 of the anodizing type & color, as well as all of the weight material & finishes.
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 30 October 2018, 23:15:23
Normal Vs. Hard Anodizing
[attachimg=2]
Source (http://www.howardprecision.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/1295915409faq.pdf)
Note that due to the thickness and color of the oxide layer, hard anodizing are normally only dyed in darker colors, with a tint depending on the aluminium grade used. In the case of 7075-T6, it would be a brown/bronze tint.
Matt Vs. Bright Dipped, (Matt on top, glossy/shiny below)
[attachimg=1]
Source (https://blog.jdslabs.com/2013/05/how-to-finish-aluminum/)
Seems many Korean customs are bright dipped, which was the case for my TX60.
An interesting side note, for matt finish, if you slide your nail across the surface, a white mark will be left on the surface, which can be wiped off (Basically your nail transferring onto the harder and "rough" surface). For bright dipped, this does not happen, as although as hard, the surface is extremely smooth.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 31 October 2018, 00:23:06
Post by: 1023andy on Wed, 31 October 2018, 08:11:57
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 31 October 2018, 11:15:13
From what i know, matt finish is vulnerable to hand oil and fingerprints. Is it true?
Depending on the color, oily residue may show up as a slightly darker area on the surface of matt finishes. It can be removed with some alcohol like you would any oil, however I wouldn't worry about it unless it really bothers you.
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 31 October 2018, 11:26:20
[attach=1]
Post by: 1023andy on Thu, 01 November 2018, 10:56:24
Post by: cldskt on Fri, 02 November 2018, 01:46:25
Also, you are based in Singapore? Would love to try the prototype when it arrives to you!
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 02 November 2018, 10:11:30
Looks great! Is paradox being made too?
You betcha
[attach=2] [attach=1]
You might want to include the new IC form in the original post too.
Also, you are based in Singapore? Would love to try the prototype when it arrives to you!
All links in this thread directs to the latest IC Form, so everyone should find their way there to fill out!! :thumb:
Although nothing on the exterior has been changed, lots of internal upgrades & tweaks to the original design has been made since ordering the prototype. I will scrutinize the prototype once I receive it and make design changes/adjustments as necessary. The last thing I want is to show off a half baked product... :-\
The proto serves mostly for me to tuning the clamping force of the O-Ring, check factory tolerances & color/finishes, adjust any misalignment of the plate/cable port/seam/weight etc.
I will be ordering a finalized prototype before the GB. That will be the one to check out. ;)
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 02 November 2018, 10:49:53
The Opening Post has been updated with the latest information on the current status of the Interest Check, with a more in depth explanation on my design intent for this type of mounting system, (TLDR: NOT a traditional gasket mount, quite the opposite) and a new section on the purpose of the O-Ring Cutout.
The following is how the upcoming GB looks in terms of options & quantity, as gauged from the submitted IC Forms.
- Case: 7075-T6 Aluminium
- Weight: Polished/Sandblasted Brass
- Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Screw
- O-Rings: Will include a few different hardness/material O-Rings
- Colour: Black, Blue Grey & Hard Anodized Dark Grey in Gloss/Matt finish
- Plate: Brass, Sandblasted. Aluminium/Copper TBD
- Layout: 60% ANSI WKL with split backspace
- Quantity: TBD. As currently stands, 10-15 spots
- Timeline: Aiming at December / January GB
Group Buy Method
From the IC, 1/3 prefer FCFS, and 2/3 Raffle. Depending on the distribution at the time of the GB, slots will be allocated proportional to the IC percentage, i.e. as it currently stands, 33% of the slots will be FCFS, and everyone that submitted after will be entered into the raffle. I think this is the fairest way to run the GB.
Which Design to Run?
current preferences between Reflex/Paradox designs seem to be quite evenly distributed. Hopefully with more form submissions we will see a clearer trend.
The IC Form
The above are by no means set in stone, and will be influenced by newly submitted IC forms. Currently only about half the number of entries received for the new IC Form compared to the original, so if you are interested in the GB please do fill them out.
Post by: forevermadrigal on Fri, 02 November 2018, 17:48:39
Post by: 1023andy on Sat, 03 November 2018, 10:52:33
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 03 November 2018, 22:44:06
Usually not a fan of where layouts are chosen for you on boards but this is the exact layout I would be using so bravo on this board :thumb: hoping some more spots become available. 15 sounds way too low for a board this nice
Thanks for the support!
Since I have not yet announce the price for the board (will need another round of prototyping and obtaining quotation for machining the final design in GB Quantity), I have to gauge the interest the board is having cautiously. Even though I did note that it will not be a budget or mid-tier board in the form, people's idea of what is mid tier pricing varies greatly, and most probably underestimate the likely price of this board.
From the material choices, finishing options, complex machining to the tight tolerance requirement etc., I foresee that this board would need to be priced easily above $450+ to break even my costs to produce them. At that price, the interest most likely have just reduced by 2/3. Remember that the board does not come with a PCB.
If you want to change the o-ring after you finished building your keyboard, do you need to desolder it?
No need to desolder. The O-Ring is like part of the upper & lower case, just unscrew & open the case to change the O-Rings. :thumb:
On Standard / HHKB Layout
Just to quickly address a couple comments from the IC form on the WKL layout singularly available for this IC.
To design and offer a standard & HHKB top piece is very easily done, in fact I have the files for those tops already in place, and the plate already supports it. The issue however is that at what point does the increase in price for the whole GB outweighs the increase in interest from offering these options?
As mentioned above, even with just the current options, this will be one pricey 60%.
I may offer different top options down the road, but for my first IC & GB I would like to keep the price (somewhat) in check.
Post by: 1023andy on Sun, 04 November 2018, 04:36:30
Post by: Jkush463 on Sun, 04 November 2018, 05:06:19
Post by: matrixzj on Sun, 04 November 2018, 07:49:02
Post by: Mcnos on Sun, 04 November 2018, 10:42:38
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 04 November 2018, 11:49:36
I hope the price is under 500. I need time to refill my wallet..
quantity is very low :-( it is a bad news for us
Lower quantity usually means more in price. I might have to pass on it, but given the chance I'll put in for my ticket.
As this is my first Interest Check for my first Group Buy, I want to make sure that I don't over commit, give myself some breathing room and have proper QC for each part that comes out of the factory.
Because I know that there will not be too many made for my first GB, price was less of a concern when designing the Reflex & Paradox. This afforded me more creative freedom to specify exactly what I want in terms of material & finishes, and allowed the complexity required in my designs.
Not everyone will agree with the direction I have taken for this project, however without this direction the project would not have existed at all. There are already plenty of high quality 60-65% on the market in the $250-$400 price range, hopefully those that choose to join my GB will find value in what I offer at the price I'm offering.
Post by: Mcnos on Sun, 04 November 2018, 18:06:42
I hope the price is under 500. I need time to refill my wallet..quantity is very low :-( it is a bad news for usLower quantity usually means more in price. I might have to pass on it, but given the chance I'll put in for my ticket.
As this is my first Interest Check for my first Group Buy, I want to make sure that I don't over commit, give myself some breathing room and have proper QC for each part that comes out of the factory.
Because I know that there will not be too many made for my first GB, price was less of a concern when designing the Reflex & Paradox. This afforded me more creative freedom to specify exactly what I want in terms of material & finishes, and allowed the complexity required in my designs.
Not everyone will agree with the direction I have taken for this project, however without this direction the project would not have existed at all. There are already plenty of high quality 60-65% on the market in the $250-$400 price range, hopefully those that choose to join my GB will find value in what I offer at the price I'm offering.
That makes sense, probably be better to do fcfs instead of raffle. I know I put raffle in the form but fcfs would make more sense as this isn't a notable brand or anything.
Post by: 1023andy on Sun, 04 November 2018, 22:57:51
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 04 November 2018, 23:10:36
How does a copper plate feel like? There doesn't seem to be any custom keyboard with it...
like a brass plate but it's made of copper so it sounds different
Post by: mog_genius88 on Mon, 05 November 2018, 00:47:59
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 05 November 2018, 04:23:26
[attachimg=1]
The switches snaps in super securely, absolutely no movement... :eek:
Switches from left to right: Tealio, Hako Royal, Zealio, Halo (with Zealio stem) and Box White.
Post by: 1023andy on Mon, 05 November 2018, 06:13:42
Post by: hayt on Mon, 05 November 2018, 06:31:54
How does a copper plate feel like? There doesn't seem to be any custom keyboard with it...
like a brass plate but it's made of copper so it sounds different
Smart ass
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 05 November 2018, 06:32:22
Looks nice! Is the brass sandblasted?
Yup it is. All plates will come sandblasted from the factory.
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 05 November 2018, 06:32:59
How does a copper plate feel like? There doesn't seem to be any custom keyboard with it...
like a brass plate but it's made of copper so it sounds different
Smart ass
nice
Post by: juaninamilli on Mon, 05 November 2018, 07:59:06
The plate prototype has arrived!!Fixed plate with all of the right locations
(Attachment Link)
The switches snaps in super securely, absolutely no movement... :eek:
Switches from left to right: Tealio, Hako Royal, Zealio, Halo (with Zealio stem) and Box White.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: 1023andy on Mon, 05 November 2018, 20:11:00
Post by: Mcnos on Mon, 05 November 2018, 20:22:11
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 05 November 2018, 22:36:34
Is the plate coated too? The color seems a bit different from normal brass plate
The plate in the photo is actually not coated. Freshly sandblasted brass looks quite bright as in the photo. Brushed or polished brass plate have a very slightly deeper color unless in direct reflection.
Post by: Etherealsound on Tue, 06 November 2018, 19:07:29
Post by: Mcnos on Tue, 06 November 2018, 19:11:23
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 07 November 2018, 05:58:18
These are looking really great. I think that a sound test between the two would really help people decide between whether reflex or paradox is preferred since it's hard to say how big of a difference the reflex will make on the sound. I personally think paradox looks nicer but don't know how big of a difference the vents on the bottom will make on sound.
Thanks! I don't have any quality microphone, only what is on my phone or webcam, so not sure if it will pickup anything useful... also the auto-leveling EQ on these devises likely will even out any differences in volume. Anyway I'll see what I can do when the prototypes are received. :thumb:
When are the full protos expected to arrive?
That is a great question!!! :-X
It should have arrived this week, however the factory reported that there were color unevenness on the dark grey hard coat anodizing finish. They offered to paint over or re-anodize the part, however I rejected the proposals and asked them to re-machine the case, and anodize the new part in hard coat black.
I was hoping that this wouldn't be an issue, however hard coat anodizing on 7075 aluminium are notoriously difficult to dye evenly in any color other then black... In the end the dark grey option may only be offered for normal anodizing, unless the buyer is willing to take the risk of color blemishes.
Anyway, this is only the first round of prototypes. I will request full anodize color samples prior to official GB, and decide final finish options then.
The redone case is scheduled to complete early next week, hopefully to be received by end of that week.
Post by: 1023andy on Wed, 07 November 2018, 07:39:04
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 07 November 2018, 08:20:53
I thought you ordered 2 prototypes. What happened to the other one?
Awaiting shipment with the rest of the order... :(
Post by: dyrdevil on Wed, 07 November 2018, 10:31:57
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 08 November 2018, 04:31:33
Just found this, it looks super interesting and you seem like a very organized individual. Good luck! Should I fill out the IC form?
Thanks for the kind words. If you are interest in joining the GB, by all means fill out the form! :thumb:
Post by: matrixzj on Thu, 08 November 2018, 21:10:47
Post by: stepstone82 on Thu, 08 November 2018, 21:22:56
looks like more players are interested with this design. Is it possible to increase quantity of GB ? 10-15 is quite fewAgree!
나의 LGM-G600S 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 09 November 2018, 01:08:22
looks like more players are interested with this design. Is it possible to increase quantity of GB ? 10-15 is quite fewAgree!
나의 LGM-G600S 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄
I may increase available spots to 20-30 judging from the interest both in this thread & from submitted forms.
Again, final GB pricing and available options have yet to be confirmed, and we're still waiting to receive our first full prototype, so I wouldn't worry about not being able to secure a GB spot quite so early.
Let's see how the physical samples turns out first. ;)
Post by: airlangga07 on Fri, 09 November 2018, 01:34:35
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Sat, 10 November 2018, 19:27:15
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 11 November 2018, 08:11:19
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Mcnos on Sun, 11 November 2018, 12:19:58
Updated plate design.
(Attachment Link)
What was wrong with the original plate design?
Post by: loud_asian on Sun, 11 November 2018, 18:42:24
Updated plate design.
(Attachment Link)
What was wrong with the original plate design?
New one seems to allow more flex on the spacebar switch
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 12 November 2018, 11:35:29
Post by: Mcnos on Mon, 12 November 2018, 11:36:37
(Attachment Link)Hot hot hot hot hot hot
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 12 November 2018, 12:07:56
Post by: Etherealsound on Mon, 12 November 2018, 13:01:13
(Attachment Link)
moar pls
Post by: HardcoreDesk on Mon, 12 November 2018, 15:12:23
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 13 November 2018, 01:37:55
Did you ever mention who you will use to manuf. these boards? Have they done work for a previous maker?
I have not confirmed which factory will be making my boards for the GB, but most likely will not be related to any past makers.
Board looks great in that picture! Only things that look off to me are anno consistency between top/bottom and maybe the roughness, but hard to tell from that angle. Still very excited for this board!
I understand that for many, surface finish is one of the most crucial part of a custom keyboard. Unfortunately 7075 grade aluminium is also one of the toughest to dye consistently due to high zinc content. For me this is a non-issue, or I would have gone with 606X grade like every other custom currently running.
Even with a good finish on my prototype, I would not want to risk returns due to less then perfect anodizing. Therefore I will likely offer the board in 6063 as standard configuration, and 7075 as optional for those preferring the material.
Even with 6063, I cannot guarantee perfect anodizing. So if anyone that are very particular with the surface finish, please refrain from joining this GB.
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 13 November 2018, 01:51:27
Post by: 1023andy on Tue, 13 November 2018, 03:25:05
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 13 November 2018, 04:07:29
Do you have any reason for choosing 7075 instead of stuff like 6063? Most customs seem to use 6063 or something close except those titanium or stainless steel ones. And I'm fine with the ano if there is no huge dent or marks.
Almost any grade of aluminum will function fine as the case material for a keyboard. I chose 7075 because it is extensively used in the firearms industry, where together with hard coat anodizing, are the standard for toughness and durability.
I like the idea that the keyboard will not need to be babied, and will become a workhorse for the rest of the user's lifetime and beyond.
I know there are people in the hobby that looks at the anodizing through a microscope, and I'm hoping that they do not join this group buy. Please rest assured that I will do all I can to push the factory for the best finish they can achieve, and I will personally attend factory acceptance test and inspect the parts before accepting the delivery. The first prototype was rejected by me due to a minor color inconsistency that would past QC of some makers, but I still need to tame people's expectations, as anodizing quality is not a tolerance I can specify.
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:01:11
[attach=1]
By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount... HUGE difference!! :eek:
Post by: cldskt on Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:03:38
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...
(Attachment Link)
By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount... HUGE difference!! :eek:
You coming to Dec meetup? Curious to know how the board feels irl.
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:12:02
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...
(Attachment Link)
By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount... HUGE difference!! :eek:
You coming to Dec meetup? Curious to know how the board feels irl.
Is that in the US? :-X Don't think I'd want to put in the price of the return ticket from Singapore to the US as part of the cost of this groupbuy... :D
Post by: cldskt on Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:13:25
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...
(Attachment Link)
By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount... HUGE difference!! :eek:
You coming to Dec meetup? Curious to know how the board feels irl.
Is that in the US? :-X Don't think I'd want to put in the price of the return ticket from Singapore to the US as part of the cost of this groupbuy... :D
Nah fam the meetup is in SG. Asked because I know you are local. You are from SG yes?
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:17:35
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...
(Attachment Link)
By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount... HUGE difference!! :eek:
You coming to Dec meetup? Curious to know how the board feels irl.
Is that in the US? :-X Don't think I'd want to put in the price of the return ticket from Singapore to the US as part of the cost of this groupbuy... :D
Nah fam the meetup is in SG. Asked because I know you are local. You are from SG yes?
Oof I see, yes I am based in Singapore. When is this meetup? Ideally I would like to demo using the final prototype as there will be some internal updates to the design.
Post by: cldskt on Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:18:17
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...
(Attachment Link)
By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount... HUGE difference!! :eek:
You coming to Dec meetup? Curious to know how the board feels irl.
Is that in the US? :-X Don't think I'd want to put in the price of the return ticket from Singapore to the US as part of the cost of this groupbuy... :D
Nah fam the meetup is in SG. Asked because I know you are local. You are from SG yes?
Oof I see, yes I am based in Singapore. When is this meetup? Ideally I would like to demo using the final prototype as there will be some internal updates to the design.
You have a discord account? Wouldn’t want to flood the thread lol.
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:19:56
By the way only recently started using discord, not sure what you need to find my account... but we can continue the conversation in PM for now.
Post by: slxdegrees on Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:27:54
I do, under the same name. :thumb:The 4 digits at the end of your ID after the #. Also, please do join us in the SG mk discord group!
By the way only recently started using discord, not sure what you need to find my account... but we can continue the conversation in PM for now.
Post by: matrixzj on Tue, 13 November 2018, 08:40:45
(Attachment Link)
this photo is really nice and tempting :) and I am unable waiting for it . Let's rock it.
shall we include Silicone (~45 durometer) and Viton (80 durometer) in the set? bring more choices for joiners
Post by: garbo on Tue, 13 November 2018, 09:36:37
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 13 November 2018, 09:55:00
(Attachment Link)
this photo is really nice and tempting :) and I am unable waiting for it . Let's rock it.
shall we include Silicone (~45 durometer) and Viton (80 durometer) in the set? bring more choices for joiners
Of course, I will include the Silicone, Viton and NBR O-Rings in each GB Order. :thumb: Didn't realize they were so expensive... :-X
Are you able to record some video in a typing test style —or at least something quick to try and demonstrate flex, etc? Would be interesting to see/hear this type of plate mounting in action.
That is definitely on my list of things to do. Unfortunately I'm currently running unlubed Halo Clears in the prototype, and they sound like arse... I have some V2 Tealios and Zealios on order, and will be able to lube them and compare with my TX60 side by side. :thumb:
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 13 November 2018, 10:20:11
Updated plate design.
(Attachment Link)
What was wrong with the original plate design?
The short answer is... nothing.
The design is still evolving, and if I find a better solution to a problem, I try to implement it.
This is a list of outdated revisions on each of the keyboard parts, even before receiving the prototype. Each update had significant enough changes for there to warrant a new revision.
[attachimg=1]
Not all changes are publicized as most are internal optimizations, but thought the group would be interested in the latest plate design. I was running stress & deformation analysis, trying to find a balance between dampening the spacebar and creating an even keystroke sound & feel on Row 4. The design may very well change again through the same process above.
Also added a few meme relief cuts cus apparently they make the keyboard better.
The design will be locked prior to ordering a final prototype as a last check before starting the GB.
Post by: beekey on Tue, 13 November 2018, 11:53:40
Updated plate design.But this world not allow a split space kayout, right? Would love a split space 2.25,1.25,2.75 deticated plate. Or some small additional cutouts in this one for the stabs.
(Attachment Link)
Post by: bthezebra on Tue, 13 November 2018, 18:19:53
Post by: bdkrzy on Tue, 13 November 2018, 19:38:17
The first prototype was rejected by me due to a minor color inconsistency that would past QC of some makers, but I still need to tame people's expectations, as anodizing quality is not a tolerance I can specify.
If you come into a GB with this mentality as a GB runner, then I am VERY VERY interested in this board. Mind if I ask what is the general difference betwwen 6063 and 7075 aluminum? In terms of sounds/feeling?
Post by: hineybush on Tue, 13 November 2018, 21:13:59
The first prototype was rejected by me due to a minor color inconsistency that would past QC of some makers, but I still need to tame people's expectations, as anodizing quality is not a tolerance I can specify.
If you come into a GB with this mentality as a GB runner, then I am VERY VERY interested in this board. Mind if I ask what is the general difference betwwen 6063 and 7075 aluminum? In terms of sounds/feeling?
they're pretty similar. 6061/6063 take color better when anodized, 7075 is typically reserved for silver/greys/black ano. 7075 is also a tougher/more resilient material
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 14 November 2018, 05:36:57
Winheh would you consider a half plate as well?
With the right plate material and O-Ring hardness, you can setup a board that is quite similar to half plate, but much more consistent in feel across all keys. ;)
The first prototype was rejected by me due to a minor color inconsistency that would past QC of some makers, but I still need to tame people's expectations, as anodizing quality is not a tolerance I can specify.
If you come into a GB with this mentality as a GB runner, then I am VERY VERY interested in this board. Mind if I ask what is the general difference betwwen 6063 and 7075 aluminum? In terms of sounds/feeling?
As hiney said, you will not notice a difference between the 2 materials in terms of typing experience. If you have no preference, I'd go with 6 series aluminium for their relative ease of machining & anodizing consistancy. :thumb:
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 14 November 2018, 05:51:52
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=4]
And the screw...
[attach=3]
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 14 November 2018, 05:58:35
Post by: 1023andy on Wed, 14 November 2018, 09:25:06
Post by: funderburker on Wed, 14 November 2018, 09:37:08
Some Reflex love
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
And the screw...
(Attachment Link)
Noice. Gotta work a bit on the plate design but the finish looks extremely well done.
What's the sound btw? That's main question with Reflex.
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 14 November 2018, 10:38:52
That looks so great. Is it 7075 with hard coat anodizing?
Thanks! Yes, the Reflex in the photo is 7075-T6 with hard coat anodizing dyed black.
hot hot hot. But Paradox is where my heart is at. Any more pic incoming?
More photos to come for sure. Need more hours in the day... :-X
Some Reflex love
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
And the screw...
(Attachment Link)
Noice. Gotta work a bit on the plate design but the finish looks extremely well done.
What's the sound btw? That's main question with Reflex.
Thanks! The plate in the Reflex was my very first design, that was ordered together with the prototype. The latest design looks quite different, and should be almost final...
As for the Reflex, there was an overlooked & hilarious issue with the prototype, that I may go into more detail over the next few days... ;)
But this is what ordering prototypes are for. Nothing like a physical item in hand for debugging any issues, which will all be ironed out before the GB. :thumb:
Post by: vikipedeer on Wed, 14 November 2018, 11:14:21
"Why not both?"
(I'm just kidding but if you do actually offfer both of them I might just get both, lol)
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 14 November 2018, 11:20:15
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 14 November 2018, 18:46:59
So...the million $ question. Reflex or Paradox? lol
I'm going paradox :thumb:
Post by: Zytyx on Wed, 14 November 2018, 19:29:03
Post by: otanishock on Thu, 15 November 2018, 00:12:03
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Thu, 15 November 2018, 00:49:36
Post by: Starston3 on Thu, 15 November 2018, 01:18:02
Post by: dyrdevil on Thu, 15 November 2018, 01:19:33
Post by: 1023andy on Thu, 15 November 2018, 04:41:38
Post by: bthezebra on Thu, 15 November 2018, 07:08:46
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 15 November 2018, 08:34:41
Updated details section of the OP based on IC form feedback and reviewing the prototype.
- Case: Standard configuration in 6063 aluminium, optional upgrade to 7075-T6 aluminium
- Weight: Sandblasted/Polished Brass finish options. Clear coating option for sandblasted only, as coating does not adhere well to polished brass
- Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Screw
- O-Rings: Will include a few different hardness/material O-Rings
- Colour: For 6063 Aluminium - Normal Anodizing in Black, Dark Grey & Blue Grey. For 7075-T6 Aluminium - Hard Anodize in Black only. All anodizing in Matt finish only.
- Plate: Standard kit with Brass plate, optional Aluminium & Copper plate extras, Sandblasted
- Layout: 60% ANSI WKL with optional split backspace & stepped caps lock
- Quantity: Up to ~30 total spots
- Timeline: Aiming at December / January GB
- Design: With the amount of interest, I'm looking at possibility of running both Paradox & Reflex. TBD.
Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.
Post by: 1023andy on Thu, 15 November 2018, 08:43:50
Post by: toby on Thu, 15 November 2018, 08:49:19
Post by: funderburker on Thu, 15 November 2018, 09:29:25
is it just me that the design look similar to the tgr jane v2?
Quoting OP:
Quote
Not gonna pretend that the Paradox didn’t take inspiration from other keyboards. But with the 60% layout, plate mounting method, weight quantity & design, material and all of the above, I believe there are enough uniqueness that there is a place for the Paradox to exist in the MK community.
Yes, it might be similar but it's just as the man says - it's inspired by "other keyboards". IMO "Paradox" is just the right amount of acceptable and well executed inspiration. ;)
Post by: otanishock on Thu, 15 November 2018, 10:32:23
Post by: otanishock on Thu, 15 November 2018, 11:09:09
Thanks for the enthusiasm guys!! :cool:
Updated details section of the OP based on IC form feedback and reviewing the prototype.
- Case: Standard configuration in 6063 aluminium, optional upgrade to 7075-T6 aluminium
- Weight: Sandblasted/Polished Brass finish options. Clear coating option for sandblasted only, as coating does not adhere well to polished brass
- Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Screw
- O-Rings: Will include a few different hardness/material O-Rings
- Colour: For 6063 Aluminium - Normal Anodizing in Black, Dark Grey & Blue Grey. For 7075-T6 Aluminium - Hard Anodize in Black only. All anodizing in Matt finish only.
- Plate: Standard kit with Brass plate, optional Aluminium & Copper plate extras, Sandblasted
- Layout: 60% ANSI WKL with split backspace
- Quantity: Up to ~30 spots
- Timeline: Aiming at December / January GB
- Design: With the amount of interest, I'm looking at possibility of running both Paradox & Reflex. TBD.
Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.
30 spots for each board? That might be a little bit too many given the high expected prices for the boards. Planning on limiting it down as originally planned for better QC and whatnot?
Post by: bthezebra on Thu, 15 November 2018, 12:25:11
I read the update as 30 total boards with the possibility of both cases being a choice within their threshold.Thanks for the enthusiasm guys!! :cool:
Updated details section of the OP based on IC form feedback and reviewing the prototype.
- Case: Standard configuration in 6063 aluminium, optional upgrade to 7075-T6 aluminium
- Weight: Sandblasted/Polished Brass finish options. Clear coating option for sandblasted only, as coating does not adhere well to polished brass
- Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Screw
- O-Rings: Will include a few different hardness/material O-Rings
- Colour: For 6063 Aluminium - Normal Anodizing in Black, Dark Grey & Blue Grey. For 7075-T6 Aluminium - Hard Anodize in Black only. All anodizing in Matt finish only.
- Plate: Standard kit with Brass plate, optional Aluminium & Copper plate extras, Sandblasted
- Layout: 60% ANSI WKL with split backspace
- Quantity: Up to ~30 spots
- Timeline: Aiming at December / January GB
- Design: With the amount of interest, I'm looking at possibility of running both Paradox & Reflex. TBD.
Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.
30 spots for each board? That might be a little bit too many given the high expected prices for the boards. Planning on limiting it down as originally planned for better QC and whatnot?
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 15 November 2018, 15:02:46
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Post by: 1023andy on Thu, 15 November 2018, 16:35:18
Will the split back space be completely fixed? No full size option?
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Yeah, I want normal backspace too..
Post by: forevermadrigal on Thu, 15 November 2018, 17:11:17
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 15 November 2018, 17:29:24
The layout is specified. Regular bs is for heathens anywayI was wondering what madrigal meant... Now I know it means... Wrong!
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Post by: forevermadrigal on Thu, 15 November 2018, 17:46:13
The layout is specified. Regular bs is for heathens anywayI was wondering what madrigal meant... Now I know it means... Wrong!
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You said right wrong ;)
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 15 November 2018, 18:42:55
Thanks for the enthusiasm guys!! :cool:
Updated details section of the OP based on IC form feedback and reviewing the prototype.
- Case: Standard configuration in 6063 aluminium, optional upgrade to 7075-T6 aluminium
- Weight: Sandblasted/Polished Brass finish options. Clear coating option for sandblasted only, as coating does not adhere well to polished brass
- Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Screw
- O-Rings: Will include a few different hardness/material O-Rings
- Colour: For 6063 Aluminium - Normal Anodizing in Black, Dark Grey & Blue Grey. For 7075-T6 Aluminium - Hard Anodize in Black only. All anodizing in Matt finish only.
- Plate: Standard kit with Brass plate, optional Aluminium & Copper plate extras, Sandblasted
- Layout: 60% ANSI WKL with split backspace
- Quantity: Up to ~30 spots
- Timeline: Aiming at December / January GB
- Design: With the amount of interest, I'm looking at possibility of running both Paradox & Reflex. TBD.
Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.
30 spots for each board? That might be a little bit too many given the high expected prices for the boards. Planning on limiting it down as originally planned for better QC and whatnot?
I read the update as 30 total boards with the possibility of both cases being a choice within their threshold.
This. I will not go over 30 combined spots for this GB, and that is "up to". ;)
Will the split back space be completely fixed? No full size option?
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Will the split back space be completely fixed? No full size option?
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Yeah, I want normal backspace too..
The layout is specified. Regular bs is for heathens anyway :p
Sorry for the confusion. Changed the details description, the Split Backspace will be an option. ;D
Considering all the options you are providing, I guess it will be hard to make some alps plate? I have alps skcl green but I got no keyboard to use them.
I will very likely release the blank plate file for anyone to design and cut their own plates. I do have plans to design an alps 60% plate, however not very familiar with their stabilizer design, so will not be available soon.
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 15 November 2018, 18:48:06
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Post by: otanishock on Thu, 15 November 2018, 20:10:16
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 15 November 2018, 22:12:06
Any rough idea on manufacturer/pricing yet? I'd rather see have it pricey to the max but with top notch quality (with the mentality of a real 60% endgame) than a mid tier $350 ish kinda board.
The price is still going to be $450+ due to the complex design, no way around the CNC machine time.
As mentioned before, there is anodizing consistency concerns for the 7 series aluminium, even for normal anodizing as can be seen in the Lunar 65 group buy. If you are ok with the risk, I may be able to arrange for the finish you want.
Not everyone values the material as much as the surface finish, so I'm offering options for most people to find their preference.
The vision for both Paradox & Reflex as endgame 60% has not changed.
Post by: matrixzj on Thu, 15 November 2018, 23:00:57
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 15 November 2018, 23:20:09
for price 450 usd , is it for Alu 7 series or 7 Series?
Final GB pricing to be determined. The $450+ figure is to give potential GB participants an idea on where the pricing likely falls and not have sticker shock when the actual price is announced.
There are not much difference in terms of cost between 7 & 6 series aluminium, however there will be some additional cost for the Hard Anodizing.
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 16 November 2018, 02:40:30
Post by: vikipedeer on Fri, 16 November 2018, 07:44:51
Post by: bdkrzy on Fri, 16 November 2018, 08:30:24
450$ seems reasonble on the Reflex, but Paradox seems tad bit too simple for the price point(but again I can't really judge this bc I have no experience on manufacturing cost), still super pumped on the GB though!
Could use some curve edges like what they did with dolphin, that could be interesting :p
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 16 November 2018, 09:32:00
Lets do this. I'm super pumped!!! Low moq, high price but top notch end game material/quality is dopeee. What is the next plan on your timeline? Any word about manufacturer yet?
Thanks for the support!
currently I'm going through the prototypes, trying to find any weaknesses in the design that needs to be refined further, and optimize the machine-ability somewhat.
At this stage the design is almost final, but will use the board for one more week as a daily to really get a feel for the board.
To do list:
- Refine current design
- Send out RFQ to factories for Master Sample & order in GB quantity
- Order a set of Master Samples in raw, as-machined finish for tolerance QC & anodizing color samples
- Refine anodizing color
- Determine final options & pricing
- ...
- ...
- Group Buy Start!
450$ seems reasonble on the Reflex, but Paradox seems tad bit too simple for the price point(but again I can't really judge this bc I have no experience on manufacturing cost), still super pumped on the GB though!
450$ seems reasonble on the Reflex, but Paradox seems tad bit too simple for the price point(but again I can't really judge this bc I have no experience on manufacturing cost), still super pumped on the GB though!
Could use some curve edges like what they did with dolphin, that could be interesting :p
You would think that the Paradox would be cheap to machine due to its exterior simplicity... which is true for the aluminium bottom relative to the Reflex. HOWEVER!! The weight of the Paradox is actually super expensive to machine compared with the weight in the Reflex due to its length, many angles and chamfers, cutout for the USB Port, tolerance requirements and the fact that its machined from brass...
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
So both designs actually does works out very close to each other in machining costs... :-X
[attach=5] [attach=3] [attach=4]
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 16 November 2018, 10:08:45
Post by: vikipedeer on Fri, 16 November 2018, 10:10:25
Post by: airlangga07 on Fri, 16 November 2018, 10:17:52
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Post by: otanishock on Fri, 16 November 2018, 10:31:42
Post by: juaninamilli on Fri, 16 November 2018, 10:39:48
Will you provide a sample pic of different weight finish (polish/coating/sandblast etc.) maybe before GB? Also is it possible to take a look at different color option for the case?There are already a few other boards that can be used for comparison. Singa comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others.
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 16 November 2018, 11:05:23
that anodizing look very cleannn!!! I am excited to join!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not sure which photo you were looking at, but if it was for the weight in this page that was not anodizing!!
Will you provide a sample pic of different weight finish (polish/coating/sandblast etc.) maybe before GB? Also is it possible to take a look at different color option for the case?
All weight will be sandblasted, with only the exposed face of the weight polished if chosen. Clear coating will add a slight gloss to the sandblasted surface, but the brass sandblasted effect will show through per the Reflex prototype.
As polishing is done by hand, there will be visible micro-scratches if viewed very closely at certain light angles. This is in contrast with the PVD Coating where it forms a flawless finish, when new.
Anodizing color sample photos will be shown when received, however we are limited to the accuracy of our camera and monitors. I will ultimately make the call for approval of the colors.
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 16 November 2018, 11:18:39
that anodizing look very cleannn!!! I am excited to join!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not sure which photo you were looking at, but if it was for the weight in this page that was not anodizing!!Will you provide a sample pic of different weight finish (polish/coating/sandblast etc.) maybe before GB? Also is it possible to take a look at different color option for the case?
All weight will be sandblasted, with only the exposed face of the weight polished if chosen. Clear coating will add a slight gloss to the sandblasted surface, but the brass sandblasted effect will show through per the Reflex prototype.
As polishing is done by hand, there will be visible micro-scratches if viewed very closely at certain light angles. This is in contrast with the PVD Coating where it forms a flawless finish, when new.
Anodizing color sample photos will be shown when received, however we are limited to the accuracy of our camera and monitors. I will ultimately make the call for approval of the colors.
So PVD coating is not available for the weight right?
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 16 November 2018, 11:50:30
So PVD coating is not available for the weight right?
I will not be offering PVD for this GB. Its use in our hobby as an aesthetic coating does not age well.
Post by: vikipedeer on Fri, 16 November 2018, 12:01:01
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 16 November 2018, 12:30:50
So PVD coating is not available for the weight right?
I will not be offering PVD for this GB. Its use in our hobby as an aesthetic coating does not age well.
I do agree as well. Also never experience with polished weight before, but I heard they are more susceptible to scratches right?
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 16 November 2018, 21:46:44
Another question, I see that you haven't really set on which board will make it to the GB stage, or are you going to be opening for both of them?
I am looking at that possibility. As the IC form shows that the interest for both designs are very close, with a slight favor to Paradox, I hope to not have to disappoint half of the IC participants.
So PVD coating is not available for the weight right?
I will not be offering PVD for this GB. Its use in our hobby as an aesthetic coating does not age well.
I do agree as well. Also never experience with polished weight before, but I heard they are more susceptible to scratches right?
All polished/reflective surfaces show scratches quite easily. However in contrast to PVD coating, you can re-polish polished surfaces relatively easily with commercially available polishing compounds.
Post by: bthezebra on Fri, 16 November 2018, 21:48:07
I will buy in no matter which one you choose, I am most interested in feel.Another question, I see that you haven't really set on which board will make it to the GB stage, or are you going to be opening for both of them?
I am looking at that possibility. As the IC form shows that the interest for both designs are very close, with a slight favor to Paradox, I hope to not have to disappoint half of the IC participants.So PVD coating is not available for the weight right?
I will not be offering PVD for this GB. Its use in our hobby as an aesthetic coating does not age well.
I do agree as well. Also never experience with polished weight before, but I heard they are more susceptible to scratches right?
All polished/reflective surfaces show scratches quite easily. However in contrast to PVD coating, you can re-polish polished surfaces relatively easily with commercially available polishing compounds.
Post by: airlangga07 on Sat, 17 November 2018, 00:08:37
Apologize for the use of wrong term as I really unfamiliar with it! Its just that mirror finish and the overall design is really nice!that anodizing look very cleannn!!! I am excited to join!
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Not sure which photo you were looking at, but if it was for the weight in this page that was not anodizing!!
Post by: 1023andy on Sat, 17 November 2018, 02:50:02
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 17 November 2018, 05:11:13
[attach=6]
[attach=7]
Expend below for more.
More
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
O-Ring Post - Snug fit
[attach=3]
Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
[attach=4]
Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
[attach=5]
[attach=2]
O-Ring Post - Snug fit
[attach=3]
Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
[attach=4]
Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
[attach=5]
This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...
The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).
Post by: vikipedeer on Sat, 17 November 2018, 06:02:49
Sorry, thought I had posted them already... :-[Looking really pretty now
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Expend below for more.More(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
O-Ring Post - Snug fit
(Attachment Link)
Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
(Attachment Link)
Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
(Attachment Link)
This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...
The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?
Post by: 1023andy on Sat, 17 November 2018, 06:43:20
Sorry, thought I had posted them already... :-[Looking really pretty now
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Expend below for more.More(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
O-Ring Post - Snug fit
(Attachment Link)
Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
(Attachment Link)
Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
(Attachment Link)
This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...
The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?
I think he said normal anodizing in black, dark grey, and blue grey for 6063, and hard coat anodizing in black for 7075
Post by: otanishock on Sat, 17 November 2018, 08:29:54
[attach=1]
Post by: 1023andy on Sat, 17 November 2018, 09:07:51
Maybe change the way the screws are mounted at the bottom? It feels like as of the current state, they don't look very sleek to me. But that is just minor minor detail, definitely not a big deal at all.
(Attachment Link)
I think the screw doesn't really matter on black or grey but in blue grey it may not look so great
Post by: 1023andy on Sat, 17 November 2018, 09:09:03
Sorry, thought I had posted them already... :-[
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Expend below for more.More(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
O-Ring Post - Snug fit
(Attachment Link)
Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
(Attachment Link)
Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
(Attachment Link)
This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...
The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).
The brass weight of paradox is polished right?
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 17 November 2018, 09:10:24
Maybe change the way the screws are mounted at the bottom? It feels like as of the current state, they don't look very sleek to me. But that is just minor minor detail, definitely not a big deal at all.
(Attachment Link)
There will be no changes to the design of the boards other then what is necessary from reviewing the prototype. There will be additional fasteners added to the 4 corners for tighter fitment between the top and bottom piece.
All screw are flush with the bottom face, with no protrusion if you slide your finger over them. I try to maintain the same length screws so people don't damage something using the wrong length screw, and avoid deep screw holes for overall easier assembly.
Lastly, I'm providing some of the best fasteners around, don't want to hide it. :cool:
Feel free to buy some Stainless Steel screws as I use standard M3 countersunk, however I'm happy with the current design overall.
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 17 November 2018, 09:15:37
Sorry, thought I had posted them already... :-[
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Expend below for more.More(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
O-Ring Post - Snug fit
(Attachment Link)
Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
(Attachment Link)
Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
(Attachment Link)
This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...
The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).
The brass weight of paradox is polished right?
The Paradox prototype has polished 316 Stainless Steel weights, however it will not be offered in the group buy as SS wasn't nearly as popular as Brass in the IC Form.
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 17 November 2018, 09:23:59
Looking really pretty now
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?
Looking really pretty now
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?
I think he said normal anodizing in black, dark grey, and blue grey for 6063, and hard coat anodizing in black for 7075
There may be a mystery color chosen closer to the GB, as what we have now, although covers 90% of the IC participants, seems a little monotone...
Post by: Mcnos on Sat, 17 November 2018, 10:49:37
Post by: otanishock on Sat, 17 November 2018, 10:53:55
A vote for navy/lake color. That just looks so sickLooking really pretty now
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?Looking really pretty now
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?
I think he said normal anodizing in black, dark grey, and blue grey for 6063, and hard coat anodizing in black for 7075
There may be a mystery color chosen closer to the GB, as what we have now, although covers 90% of the IC participants, seems a little monotone...
Post by: ptiede on Sat, 17 November 2018, 14:06:54
Post by: Mcnos on Sat, 17 November 2018, 17:27:24
Post by: bdkrzy on Sat, 17 November 2018, 17:37:07
Will this be FCFS or Raffle
With all the hype's been going on, I need to bring in my trash-form filling A game lol.
Post by: Mcnos on Sat, 17 November 2018, 18:10:55
Will this be FCFS or Raffle
With all the hype's been going on, I need to bring in my trash-form filling A game lol.
Google autofill does wonders
Post by: lordgiblite on Sat, 17 November 2018, 18:45:23
Sorry, thought I had posted them already... :-[
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Expend below for more.More(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
O-Ring Post - Snug fit
(Attachment Link)
Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
(Attachment Link)
Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
(Attachment Link)
This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...
The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).
You know, just when I spent some money on a "nice" high/mid end 60 after being out of the mech game for a little bit I stumble on this...this magnificent piece of metal. Oh my lordy lordness, I wish I was a little bit richer now.
Post by: bdkrzy on Sat, 17 November 2018, 21:29:43
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 17 November 2018, 23:06:30
Oh, it all looks dope man. Love the Paradox, wished there was a full build picture with cherry profile caps. :eek:
I only have Modern Dolch & GMK Space Cadet coming next year, don't think they will arrive in time for the GB...
Will this be FCFS or Raffle
It will be both. As the IC currently stands, first half of the spots will be taken up by FCFS, and the rest will be entered into a raffle. This seem to be the fairest way to run the GB, so you're not SOL if your computer crashes, internet dies or fat-fingered, yet still get a chance to test your ninja script form submit skillz.
More details will be given ahead of the GB.
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 18 November 2018, 03:54:05
Highlights:
- Finalized plate design for optimized stress distribution
- Added support ribs for Reflex grill
- Increased Reflex weight fastener size
- Fasteners added to 4 corners of the case for additional clamping and tighter seal
- Reduced gap between keys & case top
- Significantly increased top piece rigidity
- Increased interlocking area of top & bottom piece
- Biased O-Ring post length for easier assembly
- Slightly enlarged USB port size
- Slightly enlarged feet recess size
Reflex
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=4]
Paradox
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=5]
Plate Design
[attachimg=3]
UPDATED PRE-GB IC FORM
https://goo.gl/forms/kSBTWylS7VxydKMu1
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 18 November 2018, 04:46:35
Added WKL/Standard top option in the Form. If there are enough demand I may offer the option.
Post by: otanishock on Sun, 18 November 2018, 06:00:48
Some (semi-finalized) updates to both case & plate designs.Call me crazy all you want, but I am strongly considering signing up for both 😁
Highlights:
- Finalized plate design for optimized stress distribution
- Added support ribs for Reflex grill
- Increased Reflex weight fastener size
- Fasteners added to 4 corners of the case for additional clamping and tighter seal
- Reduced gap between keys & case top
- Significantly increased top piece rigidity
- Increased interlocking area of top & bottom piece
- Biased O-Ring post length for easier assembly
- Slightly enlarged USB port size
- Slightly enlarged feet recess size
Reflex
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Paradox
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Plate Design
(Attachment Link)
UPDATED PRE-GB IC FORM
https://goo.gl/forms/kSBTWylS7VxydKMu1
Post by: 1023andy on Sun, 18 November 2018, 06:42:51
Post by: vikipedeer on Sun, 18 November 2018, 07:01:00
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 18 November 2018, 07:09:13
Form submitted. The winkeyless looks so good.. but i want to use the purple window keys included on my hyperfuse so I just chose standard layout. And for the mystery color, I want white but I guess it's unlikely to happen because it requires different types of finish?
The white does require a different process to coat, so don't think I'd want to complicate this GB unnecessarily. And yes, to the note you left in the IC - mystery colors, if offered, will only be available on 6063 Aluminium.
Post by: vikipedeer on Sun, 18 November 2018, 07:19:40
Post by: 1023andy on Sun, 18 November 2018, 07:36:10
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 18 November 2018, 07:51:06
Oh btw, just to clarify my odd IC, I choose 7075 Alu with hard coated in the IC form but if you actually offered Navy Blue on 6063 Alu I'd opt for that instead.
No worries. Mystery colors are just a fun IC to see what people will chose, but most will probably stick with safer colors that goes well with multiple keysets. Will see how that goes.
You said hard coat anodizing in dark grey is difficult to be perfect. How likely is it to get almost perfect ano?
In 7075 aluminium? Very unlikely. Hard anodizing will not be offered for 6063 aluminium.
Post by: 1023andy on Sun, 18 November 2018, 08:12:10
Oh btw, just to clarify my odd IC, I choose 7075 Alu with hard coated in the IC form but if you actually offered Navy Blue on 6063 Alu I'd opt for that instead.
No worries. Mystery colors are just a fun IC to see what people will chose, but most will probably stick with safer colors that goes well with multiple keysets. Will see how that goes.You said hard coat anodizing in dark grey is difficult to be perfect. How likely is it to get almost perfect ano?
In 7075 aluminium? Very unlikely. Hard anodizing will not be offered for 6063 aluminium.
I really can't decide between hard coat black or normal dark grey..
Post by: bdkrzy on Sun, 18 November 2018, 08:14:45
In 7075 aluminium? Very unlikely. Hard anodizing will not be offered for 6063 aluminium.
Sorry to ask but I'm kinda confused about the anodizing option. What's the main difference between regular anodizing and hard anodizing?
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 18 November 2018, 08:26:46
In 7075 aluminium? Very unlikely. Hard anodizing will not be offered for 6063 aluminium.
Sorry to ask but I'm kinda confused about the anodizing option. What's the main difference between regular anodizing and hard anodizing?
You can check out this post earlier in the thread on the differences.
In case You're not sure about the differences between anodizing types & matt/glossy(Shiny) finish options in the form, below is some quick photos & comparison table for you to consider;
Normal Vs. Hard Anodizing
(Attachment Link)
Source (http://www.howardprecision.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/1295915409faq.pdf)
Note that due to the thickness and color of the oxide layer, hard anodizing are normally only dyed in darker colors, with a tint depending on the aluminium grade used. In the case of 7075-T6, it would be a brown/bronze tint.
There are a few earlier posts that touches on why only black is offered for 7075-T6 aluminium. Hard or normal anodizing does not affect anodizing consistency as much as which aluminium alloy series used.
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 18 November 2018, 08:33:23
Oh btw, just to clarify my odd IC, I choose 7075 Alu with hard coated in the IC form but if you actually offered Navy Blue on 6063 Alu I'd opt for that instead.
No worries. Mystery colors are just a fun IC to see what people will chose, but most will probably stick with safer colors that goes well with multiple keysets. Will see how that goes.You said hard coat anodizing in dark grey is difficult to be perfect. How likely is it to get almost perfect ano?
In 7075 aluminium? Very unlikely. Hard anodizing will not be offered for 6063 aluminium.
I really can't decide between hard coat black or normal dark grey..
I hear you. I also wanted dark grey hard anodizing so bad... But the risk is just too high to offer it at this price point. :(
Post by: 1023andy on Sun, 18 November 2018, 10:44:00
Post by: phearboner on Sun, 18 November 2018, 11:04:22
Post by: vikipedeer on Sun, 18 November 2018, 11:06:44
Very interesting design! What is the difference between normal and hard anodizing?
In case You're not sure about the differences between anodizing types & matt/glossy(Shiny) finish options in the form, below is some quick photos & comparison table for you to consider;also for others that asked the similar question to see
Normal Vs. Hard Anodizing
(Attachment Link)
Source (http://www.howardprecision.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/1295915409faq.pdf)
Note that due to the thickness and color of the oxide layer, hard anodizing are normally only dyed in darker colors, with a tint depending on the aluminium grade used. In the case of 7075-T6, it would be a brown/bronze tint.
Matt Vs. Bright Dipped, (Matt on top, glossy/shiny below)
(Attachment Link)
Source (https://blog.jdslabs.com/2013/05/how-to-finish-aluminum/)
Seems many Korean customs are bright dipped, which was the case for my TX60.
An interesting side note, for matt finish, if you slide your nail across the surface, a white mark will be left on the surface, which can be wiped off (Basically your nail transferring onto the harder and "rough" surface). For bright dipped, this does not happen, as although as hard, the surface is extremely smooth.
Post by: Starston3 on Sun, 18 November 2018, 13:41:40
It will be both. As the IC currently stands, first half of the spots will be taken up by FCFS, and the rest will be entered into a raffle. This seem to be the fairest way to run the GB, so you're not SOL if your computer crashes, internet dies or fat-fingered, yet still get a chance to test your ninja script form submit skillz.
More details will be given ahead of the GB.
Say someone were to get both. Would that count as 1 or 2? Just wondering as there are limited spots for the FCFS half.
Post by: bthezebra on Sun, 18 November 2018, 14:40:35
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 19 November 2018, 11:18:34
I have a question about weight. How does sandblasted+clear coated brass looks like? Is it something similar to tx60 weight?
You can check out the brass plate and weight in the post below for reference, they are sandblasted & clear-coated.
Some Reflex love
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
And the screw...
(Attachment Link)
Post by: macclack on Mon, 19 November 2018, 14:47:59
Post by: 1023andy on Mon, 19 November 2018, 21:18:23
Post by: garbo on Mon, 19 November 2018, 22:14:03
I forgot one of the most important question... What is the angle of the reflex¶dox? It seems quite low in the picture
It's 7° based on the opening post. Sort of on the low end but still pretty standard.
Post by: 1023andy on Mon, 19 November 2018, 22:26:42
I forgot one of the most important question... What is the angle of the reflex¶dox? It seems quite low in the picture
It's 7° based on the opening post. Sort of on the low end but still pretty standard.
I'm ok with 7. I'm not a big fan of high angle
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 20 November 2018, 04:45:44
I forgot one of the most important question... What is the angle of the reflex¶dox? It seems quite low in the picture
It's 7° based on the opening post. Sort of on the low end but still pretty standard.
I was wondering when the angle will be asked... then when you answered 7 degrees I was like - wat? did I give that info??? :eek: ;D
Post by: otanishock on Tue, 20 November 2018, 05:58:54
Post by: 1023andy on Wed, 21 November 2018, 05:52:03
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 21 November 2018, 06:09:40
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 21 November 2018, 06:24:41
If you choose polished brass, is it going to be more expensive than sandblasted?
there will be a small upgrade cost for polished weight Vs. sandblasted, and also for upgrading from 6 series aluminium with normal anodizing to 7 series aluminium with Hard Anodizing.
Pricing will be confirmed and announced before the GB.
Post by: 1023andy on Wed, 21 November 2018, 08:10:37
Post by: 1023andy on Sat, 24 November 2018, 00:03:56
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 24 November 2018, 03:20:52
How heavy is the prototype when fully built?
I will try to weight the Master Sample Prototypes once they are received. Don't have any scales in the house... :(
So how are things going?
Guess it's time for a quick update.
The first prototype samples have been used exclusively for the past week, I am confident enough with the mount as is and went ahead with fabrication of the Master Sample prototype.
Some quick observations using the prototype;
- There are absolutely significant differences in typing feel and sound between different O-Ring Hardness. Total success on the mounting concept.
- The case is completely isolated from the plate & PCB, so most vibrations from the plate does not actually transfer to the case, yet is dampened by the O-Rings.
- Your switches and springs better be lubed or are free from spring ping or you will have a very noisy board due to the floating plate design. Stock Halo Clears are horribly pingy.
On the manufacturing;
- I have changed factory for the Master Sample Prototype & upcoming GB from the first prototype samples due to better guaranteed tolerances for machining.
- Master Sample Prototypes and anodizing color samples have been ordered, 2-3 weeks lead time.
- There will be a MOQ of 30 total units, maximum 30 total units, 15 sets of each design. Should the GB not reach MOQ, it will be cancelled.
- There will NOT be a rerun of either Paradox or Reflex designs after this GB, at least not in its current form, due to the exorbitant machining costs for each set.
- The base set will include a 6063 Case Top (Standard or WKL) & Case Bottom in normal anodizing, Sandblasted Brass Weight and Sandblasted Brass Plate.
- Optional extras are upgrade to 7075-T6 Case Top & Bottom in Black Hard Anodizing, Polished Brass Weight & Extra Plates in Sandblasted Brass / Aluminium / Copper.
- Base Kit will be kept under $500 per set (excluding PayPal fees). At this price I'm barely breaking even, but don't want to raise the price any higher then it already is.
Timeline;
GB is still on track to go live in December / January.
FCFS / Raffle rules, Prices & other GB details will be announced closer to the Group Buy.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Post by: slxdegrees on Sat, 24 November 2018, 03:31:01
Post by: airlangga07 on Sat, 24 November 2018, 03:40:12
How heavy is the prototype when fully built?
I will try to weight the Master Sample Prototypes once they are received. Don't have any scales in the house... :(So how are things going?
Guess it's time for a quick update.
The first prototype samples have been used exclusively for the past week, I am confident enough with the mount as is and went ahead with fabrication of the Master Sample prototype.
Some quick observations using the prototype;
- There are absolutely significant differences in typing feel and sound between different O-Ring Hardness. Total success on the mounting concept.
- The case is completely isolated from the plate & PCB, so most vibrations from the plate does not actually transfer to the case, yet is dampened by the O-Rings.
- Your switches and springs better be lubed or are free from spring ping or you will have a very noisy board due to the floating plate design. Stock Halo Clears are horribly pingy.
On the manufacturing;
- I have changed factory for the Master Sample Prototype & upcoming GB from the first prototype samples due to better guaranteed tolerances for machining.
- Master Sample Prototypes and anodizing color samples have been ordered, 2-3 weeks lead time.
- There will be a MOQ of 30 total units, maximum 30 total units, 15 sets of each design. Should the GB not reach MOQ, it will be cancelled.
- There will NOT be a rerun of either Paradox or Reflex designs after this GB, at least not in its current form, due to the exorbitant machining costs for each set.
- The base set will include a 6063 Case Top (Standard or WKL) & Case Bottom in normal anodizing, Sandblasted Brass Weight and Sandblasted Brass Plate.
- Optional extras are upgrade to 7075-T6 Case Top & Bottom in Black Hard Anodizing, Polished Brass Weight & Extra Plates in Sandblasted Brass / Aluminium / Copper.
- Base Kit will be kept under $500 per set (excluding PayPal fees). At this price I'm barely breaking even, but don't want to raise the price any higher then it already is.
Timeline;
GB is still on track to go live in December / January.
FCFS / Raffle rules, Prices & other GB details will be announced closer to the Group Buy.
Let me know if you have any questions.
is form filled, and I really excited for this board! I check your thread almost everyday lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Mcnos on Sat, 24 November 2018, 11:28:14
Ready, kind of.
Post by: 1023andy on Sat, 24 November 2018, 23:02:29
Post by: Punchy Lab on Sun, 25 November 2018, 02:33:54
Post by: airlangga07 on Sun, 25 November 2018, 02:37:23
It's really a good design for reflex, but I need hhkb. I hope it will provide hhkb layout later.
I second this and would def picked the HHKB layout anyday. But I am also curious about the o-ring mount feel.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: otanishock on Sun, 25 November 2018, 06:43:12
Post by: funderburker on Mon, 26 November 2018, 00:58:10
But I still have a question - given Reflex and Paradox is meant to be unique sounding and you have protos for both. Is there a chance to hear typing/sound tests? It's not necessary for GB but I enjoy me some typing tests. :P
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 26 November 2018, 05:25:26
Just caught up on this and it sure looks great and the proto photos make me so jelly...
But I still have a question - given Reflex and Paradox is meant to be unique sounding and you have protos for both. Is there a chance to hear typing/sound tests? It's not necessary for GB but I enjoy me some typing tests. :P
I have some Tealios & Zealios V2 coming in late December that I will lube and build up the Master Sample that is in fabrication now. Unfortunately it most likely will not make it to me in time for the GB...
I would suggest choosing which design you prefer over any differences in typing sound between the two. The Reflex was designed with mimicking the loud speaker in mind, and in theory would change the sound due to the bottom opening. However in practice the O-Ring hardness has far more pronounced effect on sound & feel.
Personally I'd get the Reflex just cus there will likely not be another board quite like it. :cool:
The current stock Halo Clears in my first proto have terribad spring ping, and I will not subject anyone's ear to such atrocity... :-X
Post by: funderburker on Mon, 26 November 2018, 06:08:43
Just caught up on this and it sure looks great and the proto photos make me so jelly...
But I still have a question - given Reflex and Paradox is meant to be unique sounding and you have protos for both. Is there a chance to hear typing/sound tests? It's not necessary for GB but I enjoy me some typing tests. :P
I have some Tealios & Zealios V2 coming in late December that I will lube and build up the Master Sample that is in fabrication now. Unfortunately it most likely will not make it to me in time for the GB...
I would suggest choosing which design you prefer over any differences in typing sound between the two. The Reflex was designed with mimicking the loud speaker in mind, and in theory would change the sound due to the bottom opening. However in practice the O-Ring hardness has far more pronounced effect on sound & feel.
Personally I'd get the Reflex just cus there will likely not be another board quite like it. :cool:
The current stock Halo Clears in my first proto have terribad spring ping, and I will not subject anyone's ear to such atrocity... :-X
Of course choosing wouldn't be done by the typing sound alone lol but I'm just really curious about the sound signature of each board. I'd go for Paradox though as I love the simplicity of it but Reflex is also beautiful! :thumb:
Post by: Mcnos on Tue, 27 November 2018, 22:03:50
Post by: macclack on Wed, 28 November 2018, 07:25:46
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 28 November 2018, 07:35:43
It would be interesting to try some different plate materials on the Reflex like carbon fiber or plastic to really bring out the sound. I'm thinking of how the Weaven really brings out a unique sound signature that I've never heard on another keyboard.
Weaven..Fjell. they both bring out great sound
Post by: tex_live_utility on Wed, 28 November 2018, 07:56:16
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 28 November 2018, 08:20:22
It would be interesting to try some different plate materials on the Reflex like carbon fiber or plastic to really bring out the sound. I'm thinking of how the Weaven really brings out a unique sound signature that I've never heard on another keyboard.
Softer plate material then aluminium don't work as well with this mounting style since no one wants to feel like they're typing on a trampoline... I think. :-X
With the 3 available plate material and different O-Ring hardness combinations, I think there are options enough for everyone to experiment with the sound and feel to their liking.
It would be interesting to try some different plate materials on the Reflex like carbon fiber or plastic to really bring out the sound. I'm thinking of how the Weaven really brings out a unique sound signature that I've never heard on another keyboard.
Weaven..Fjell. they both bring out great sound
I have heard that the Fjell had great sound. Anyone know why that is? Having tried other tray mount cases, the switches closer to a mounting post would have a higher pitch sound then those further away, and the inconsistent typing feel reflect the position of the mounting posts too.
Genuinely curious.
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 28 November 2018, 08:44:07
It would be interesting to try some different plate materials on the Reflex like carbon fiber or plastic to really bring out the sound. I'm thinking of how the Weaven really brings out a unique sound signature that I've never heard on another keyboard.
Softer plate material then aluminium don't work as well with this mounting style since no one wants to feel like they're typing on a trampoline... I think. :-X
With the 3 available plate material and different O-Ring hardness combinations, I think there are options enough for everyone to experiment with the sound and feel to their liking.It would be interesting to try some different plate materials on the Reflex like carbon fiber or plastic to really bring out the sound. I'm thinking of how the Weaven really brings out a unique sound signature that I've never heard on another keyboard.
Weaven..Fjell. they both bring out great sound
I have heard that the Fjell had great sound. Anyone know why that is? Having tried other tray mount cases, the switches closer to a mounting post would have a higher pitch sound then those further away, and the inconsistent typing feel reflect the position of the mounting posts too.
Genuinely curious.
Might be due to the denseness and material of the Fjell. That boi heavy
Post by: 1023andy on Wed, 28 November 2018, 10:03:10
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 28 November 2018, 22:56:25
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 28 November 2018, 22:57:37
Eagerly wait for prototypes to arrive. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on it. Let's hope GB is dropping soon!
Otani, can I borrow money so I can pay for my paradox?
I'll let you borrow the Paradox sometimes..
Post by: Kavik on Wed, 28 November 2018, 23:02:20
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 28 November 2018, 23:32:02
Yea, so you can stack another one of these bad bois to your current list? I'll pass. Gotta stop Mcnos from monopolizing the high end boards market :p "910 | Sakura Kyuu | DC60 | HHKB | KBD67 | Duck Viper V2 | E6V2 | (Reserved for TGR-Jane V2)"Eagerly wait for prototypes to arrive. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on it. Let's hope GB is dropping soon!
Otani, can I borrow money so I can pay for my paradox?
I'll let you borrow the Paradox sometimes..
Post by: Mcnos on Thu, 29 November 2018, 00:13:08
Yea, so you can stack another one of these bad bois to your current list? I'll pass. Gotta stop Mcnos from monopolizing the high end boards market :p "910 | Sakura Kyuu | DC60 | HHKB | KBD67 | Duck Viper V2 | E6V2 | (Reserved for TGR-Jane V2)"Eagerly wait for prototypes to arrive. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on it. Let's hope GB is dropping soon!
Otani, can I borrow money so I can pay for my paradox?
I'll let you borrow the Paradox sometimes..
Pls no, only 2-3 more boards and I'm done. I promise. Half of them are cheap boards anyhow!
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 29 November 2018, 02:15:50
No need to refill if you've already filled in 18th November Form.
When are the final protos going to arrive?
ETA for the Master Sample Prototype should be the week starting 10th of December. :cool:
Post by: 1023andy on Thu, 29 November 2018, 08:33:04
Post by: appaboy on Thu, 29 November 2018, 08:49:18
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 30 November 2018, 00:30:34
The GB might start during my final exam.. :(
It might take a week or two from receiving the prototyping till the start of the GB. And there will be more forgiving raffle spots if FCFS timing is an issue.
My first time ever seeing this thread somehow. Love the mounting method but I can't use 60 percents. Hopefully to see more of this style from you later on
Definitely. The mount have proven to be a winner, and l'm looking for a larger standard PCB layout with reliable supply to design around.
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 30 November 2018, 05:34:02
[attach=1] [attach=2]
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 30 November 2018, 08:14:43
Got some ProtO PhotO from the factory, and they look shweet!! :p :cool:Tell them to hurry upppp and send it out to you already. Patiently counting days over here :thumb:
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
Post by: Mcnos on Fri, 30 November 2018, 08:21:10
Got some ProtO PhotO from the factory, and they look shweet!! :p :cool:Tell them to hurry upppp and send it out to you already. Patiently counting days over here :thumb:
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
I've got your spot already though Otani.
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 30 November 2018, 08:37:01
🤭🤭 You clearly don't need more high end boardssss. Only 15 of these, gimme a chance to redeem my tofuuu lulGot some ProtO PhotO from the factory, and they look shweet!! :p :cool:Tell them to hurry upppp and send it out to you already. Patiently counting days over here :thumb:
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
I've got your spot already though Otani.
Post by: Mcnos on Fri, 30 November 2018, 08:38:45
🤭🤭 You clearly don't need more high end boardssss. Only 15 of these, gimme a chance to redeem my tofuuu lulGot some ProtO PhotO from the factory, and they look shweet!! :p :cool:Tell them to hurry upppp and send it out to you already. Patiently counting days over here :thumb:
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
I've got your spot already though Otani.
Tofu is definitely a good enough board, no worries
Post by: vikipedeer on Fri, 30 November 2018, 08:39:51
(for real tho, if you allow me to do that I'd do it in a heart beat)
Post by: 1023andy on Fri, 30 November 2018, 08:41:25
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 01 December 2018, 01:40:35
I believe you said this GB doesnt include PCB right?
That is correct. Most aftermarket 60% PCBs should fit. I have tried Zeal60 & Leeku Finger 60 L3, and both fit perfectly, and you can get a Satan GH60 from KBDFans for $30. :thumb:
Post by: Mcnos on Tue, 04 December 2018, 23:27:23
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 05 December 2018, 00:37:21
There an update on when this will go live?
Just waiting on the master sample and color chips to arrive, should receive it by early next week hopefully. Also the sample plate in aluminium & copper is already on their way to me.
If nothing needs drastic change, we're looking at GB going live by next weekend or the weekend after. The GB post have already been drafted... ;)
Post by: bthezebra on Wed, 05 December 2018, 01:10:03
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 05 December 2018, 04:45:41
First the good news;
Just received this photo from the factory, the machining for the parts have completed; :eek:
[attachimg=1]
The Master Sample have been ordered with "as machined" finish for tolerance inspection. Materials are 7075-T6 Aluminium for case and SS316 for weights. Color Sample Chips have been separately ordered in their respective materials and finish.
-----------------------------------------------
Now the not so good news...
The flatness tolerance for the Paradox weight did not meet my specifications for ISO 2768-2 Class "H". The factory is looking at ways to rectify the issue, and most likely will be re-machining the part.
I will update again when I get the new ETA, most likely just a couple days delay.
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 05 December 2018, 06:33:34
Good news & not so good news time. :-\Sweet. So more or less, everything else looks good, just the surface finish of the Paradox's weight you are having issues with?
First the good news;
Just received this photo from the factory, the machining for the parts have completed; :eek:
(Attachment Link)
The Master Sample have been ordered with "as machined" finish for tolerance inspection. Materials are 7075-T6 Aluminium for case and SS316 for weights. Color Sample Chips have been separately ordered in their respective materials and finish.
-----------------------------------------------
Now the not so good news...
The flatness tolerance for the Paradox weight did not meet my specifications for ISO 2768-2 Class "H". The factory is looking at ways to rectify the issue, and most likely will be re-machining the part.
I will update again when I get the new ETA, most likely just a couple days delay.
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 05 December 2018, 06:49:39
Good news & not so good news time. :-\Sweet. So more or less, everything else looks good, just the surface finish of the Paradox's weight you are having issues with?
First the good news;
Just received this photo from the factory, the machining for the parts have completed; :eek:
(Attachment Link)
The Master Sample have been ordered with "as machined" finish for tolerance inspection. Materials are 7075-T6 Aluminium for case and SS316 for weights. Color Sample Chips have been separately ordered in their respective materials and finish.
-----------------------------------------------
Now the not so good news...
The flatness tolerance for the Paradox weight did not meet my specifications for ISO 2768-2 Class "H". The factory is looking at ways to rectify the issue, and most likely will be re-machining the part.
I will update again when I get the new ETA, most likely just a couple days delay.
There is no issue with the surface finish. The machining marks you see on the surface you will not be able to feel with your fingers, and will be removed by the sandblasting process for the group buy cases.
The straightness & flatness tolerance is the deviation from intended position over a defined length, i.e. a tolerance for deformations like bending and twisting.
Post by: vikipedeer on Wed, 05 December 2018, 07:37:01
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 05 December 2018, 07:44:01
Ah gotcha. Was it more on the side of machining error, or was it some kind of fundamental flaws associated with the chosen material that would make it susceptible to deformations?
There is no issue with the surface finish. The machining marks you see on the surface you will not be able to feel with your fingers, and will be removed by the sandblasting process for the group buy cases.
The straightness & flatness tolerance is the deviation from intended position over a defined length, i.e. a tolerance for deformations like bending and twisting.
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 05 December 2018, 09:48:10
Ah gotcha. Was it more on the side of machining error, or was it some kind of fundamental flaws associated with the chosen material that would make it susceptible to deformations?
There is no issue with the surface finish. The machining marks you see on the surface you will not be able to feel with your fingers, and will be removed by the sandblasting process for the group buy cases.
The straightness & flatness tolerance is the deviation from intended position over a defined length, i.e. a tolerance for deformations like bending and twisting.
Without being there, I wouldn't know for sure what is the exact cause of the slight deformation. Most likely a combination of material property, machining technique, cooling, part design etc.
If I had to take a guess, due to the poor thermal conductivity and poor machinability of 316 stainless steel, it's likely caused by localized heating of the cutting zone while milling the center cutout being the weakest spot, and the expansion of the material from the heat opened up the cutout slightly. Some adjustment to tool path, feed rate and cooling will most likely eliminate the issue.
Brass weights for the GB being a freeier machining material with good thermal conductivity, if my assumptions above are correct, will not have this issue.
TBH it's most probably just my specified tolerances being too stringent overall, and the factory overly cautious with me harping on about tight tolerances is priority... :-X
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 05 December 2018, 12:09:13
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 05 December 2018, 12:34:03
I thought you had a blue proto earlier? Is this a second proto for the Paradox?Dude definitely feel like me and you we've been waaay too active on this thread lol
Joke aside, I think the previous blue one was a sample prototype and this one being a master prototype, although I honestly don't know what's the difference betweeen the two either.
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 05 December 2018, 19:59:12
1st Batch - Conceptual Prototype:
Serving as “Proof of Concept” for both designs, it is used to;
- Check if the mounting system works as intended, and if there are any adjustments needed to the pressure on the O-Rings to the plate.
- Check the fitment between each parts of the case, and any adjustments needed to the design for a more polished product.
- Check all angles and geometry of the design physically, identify any structural weaknesses, and any usage/assembly concerns.
- Check for any undesirable resonance in the design during actual usage.
- Identify any machining challenges that can be lessened from adjustments to the design.
- Generate interest in the design with photos of the physical item.
Once the first prototype is analysed and my designs updated with improvements, the finalized design is made into a “Master Sample”, prior to production.
2nd Batch - Master Sample:
- “Master Sample” means that it is the sample that all subsequent production parts are measured against. It sets the standard for what the factory is able to produce, a test run for the factory’s capability so to say. Quote for the GB run has been received from the same factory, so they also get a chance to test run their production for my designs, and make any adjustments to the process as necessary for the upcoming GB.
- The Master Sample is ordered in “As Machined” surface finish to most accurately gauge the tolerances of the factory’s machining.
- Once I receive the sample, I will measure all dimensions against my design, and if everything looks good, the GB will commence.
- Minimal changes to the design will be made between the Master Sample and the Production parts. During QC, any irregularities will be identified by comparing the two.
All the renders have been updated to the final production design. For a list of changes from the 1st Prototype to the Master Sample, please refer to this post:
MoreSome (semi-finalized) updates to both case & plate designs.
Highlights:
- Finalized plate design for optimized stress distribution
- Added support ribs for Reflex grill
- Increased Reflex weight fastener size
- Fasteners added to 4 corners of the case for additional clamping and tighter seal
- Reduced gap between keys & case top
- Significantly increased top piece rigidity
- Increased interlocking area of top & bottom piece
- Biased O-Ring post length for easier assembly
- Slightly enlarged USB port size
- Slightly enlarged feet recess size
Reflex
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Paradox
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Plate Design
(Attachment Link)
UPDATED PRE-GB IC FORM
https://goo.gl/forms/kSBTWylS7VxydKMu1
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 07 December 2018, 00:35:41
New ETA is "Some time next week".
Aluminium & Brass Plate should be with DHL delivery driver now. :D
Post by: vikipedeer on Fri, 07 December 2018, 07:32:22
A quick update regarding the Paradox Weight mentioned in the last update. Just been informed that the Straightness/flatness tolerance for the Master Sample was 0.2mm out of spec over a length of 260mm, so it will be scrapped and remade.thank god I was just selling out my scale model collection to make money for the Reflex, now I have a bit of headroom of time to sell them, lol
New ETA is "Some time next week".
Aluminium & Brass Plate should be with DHL delivery driver now. :D
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 07 December 2018, 09:04:28
New design brushed Rose Gold (AKA copper) plate Vs. Old design sandblasted brass plate
[attachimg=1]
Brushed copper plate & Sandblasted aluminium plate
[attach=2]
The brushed finish for the copper plate may be offered as an optional extra. Standard finish for the copper plate is sandblasted.
Aluminium plate will be anodized black or red for the GB.
Post by: airlangga07 on Fri, 07 December 2018, 09:07:35
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Mcnos on Fri, 07 December 2018, 09:09:48
Plates arrived!
New design brushed Rose Gold (AKA copper) plate Vs. Old design sandblasted brass plate
(Attachment Link)
Brushed copper plate & Sandblasted aluminium plate
(Attachment Link)
The brushed finish for the copper plate may be offered as an optional extra. Standard finish for the copper plate is sandblasted.
Aluminium plate will be anodized black or red for the GB.
Will you be doing a sound test for the completed proto?
Post by: vikipedeer on Fri, 07 December 2018, 09:27:14
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 07 December 2018, 09:29:47
Plates arrived!
New design brushed Rose Gold (AKA copper) plate Vs. Old design sandblasted brass plate
(Attachment Link)
Brushed copper plate & Sandblasted aluminium plate
(Attachment Link)
The brushed finish for the copper plate may be offered as an optional extra. Standard finish for the copper plate is sandblasted.
Aluminium plate will be anodized black or red for the GB.
Will you be doing a sound test for the completed proto?
I would like to, but most likely will be after the GB as I want to get it going before the holiday season, with Chinese New Year coming up soon after that.
I have some cherry blacks and 2 Satan GH60 on their way to me as placeholder for Tealio/Zealio V2 and Zeal60 Rev.4 while they take their sweet time to ship just for the sound test, but need to find time to lube them...
Post by: dubious on Fri, 07 December 2018, 19:04:04
Plates arrived!
New design brushed Rose Gold (AKA copper) plate Vs. Old design sandblasted brass plate
(Attachment Link)
Brushed copper plate & Sandblasted aluminium plate
(Attachment Link)
The brushed finish for the copper plate may be offered as an optional extra. Standard finish for the copper plate is sandblasted.
Aluminium plate will be anodized black or red for the GB.
Will you be doing a sound test for the completed proto?
I would like to, but most likely will be after the GB as I want to get it going before the holiday season, with Chinese New Year coming up soon after that.
I have some cherry blacks and 2 Satan GH60 on their way to me as placeholder for Tealio/Zealio V2 and Zeal60 Rev.4 while they take their sweet time to ship just for the sound test, but need to find time to lube them...
I think you would get more participants if you waited until after the holidays, but that's just my opinion. I know I'm more likely to buy things for myself (custom keyboards) when I don't have to buy gifts or travel expenses. Not sure how everyone else feels, just my 2 cents.
Post by: 1023andy on Fri, 07 December 2018, 19:45:34
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 07 December 2018, 20:02:16
Oh don't worry. There are only 15 of each and I know for certain a couple of people I talked to have been waiting like a hawk for this already.
I think you would get more participants if you waited until after the holidays, but that's just my opinion. I know I'm more likely to buy things for myself (custom keyboards) when I don't have to buy gifts or travel expenses. Not sure how everyone else feels, just my 2 cents.
Post by: Mcnos on Fri, 07 December 2018, 20:13:16
Oh don't worry. There are only 15 of each and I know for certain a couple of people I talked to have been waiting like a hawk for this already.
I think you would get more participants if you waited until after the holidays, but that's just my opinion. I know I'm more likely to buy things for myself (custom keyboards) when I don't have to buy gifts or travel expenses. Not sure how everyone else feels, just my 2 cents.
Did you say my name Otani?
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 07 December 2018, 20:54:44
I bought Arctic 👀 Don't take my spot💩
Did you say my name Otani?
Post by: Mcnos on Fri, 07 December 2018, 20:55:48
I bought Arctic 👀 Don't take my spot💩
Did you say my name Otani?
It's okay, I'll refund it. 👀
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 07 December 2018, 22:15:41
💩💩🤭🤭I bought Arctic 👀 Don't take my spot💩
Did you say my name Otani?
It's okay, I'll refund it. 👀
Post by: MiKeyy on Sat, 08 December 2018, 18:19:45
Post by: otanishock on Tue, 11 December 2018, 01:21:53
Post by: Mcnos on Tue, 11 December 2018, 06:04:52
While waiting for the master proto, would you mind updating some of the sound test from the conceptual proto? Or have you already done that but I completely spaced out?
Perhaps
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 11 December 2018, 09:53:30
While waiting for the master proto, would you mind updating some of the sound test from the conceptual proto? Or have you already done that but I completely spaced out?
There have been no sound tests yet as stock halos sounds like arse.
I am lubing some cherry blacks and would hopefully receive the Reflex and color samples by this week. The sound test should go up soon after, with GB thread going up after receiving the Paradox sample next week.
There will likely be some changes to the available anodizing colors as well.
Post by: MiKeyy on Tue, 11 December 2018, 13:23:57
While waiting for the master proto, would you mind updating some of the sound test from the conceptual proto? Or have you already done that but I completely spaced out?
There have been no sound tests yet as stock halos sounds like arse.
I am lubing some cherry blacks and would hopefully receive the Reflex and color samples by this week. The sound test should go up soon after, with GB thread going up after receiving the Paradox sample next week.
There will likely be some changes to the available anodizing colors as well.
;D ;D
Post by: vikipedeer on Tue, 11 December 2018, 19:47:19
Looking forward to the anodising colour samples!While waiting for the master proto, would you mind updating some of the sound test from the conceptual proto? Or have you already done that but I completely spaced out?
There have been no sound tests yet as stock halos sounds like arse.
I am lubing some cherry blacks and would hopefully receive the Reflex and color samples by this week. The sound test should go up soon after, with GB thread going up after receiving the Paradox sample next week.
There will likely be some changes to the available anodizing colors as well.
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 12 December 2018, 07:32:59
[attachimg=4]
More photos:
More
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
All ready to go!
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=2]
All ready to go!
[attachimg=3]
Post by: vikipedeer on Wed, 12 December 2018, 07:58:04
Had the plate locally anodized deep red...does this mean sound vid soon?
(Attachment Link)
More photos:More
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 12 December 2018, 08:06:01
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 12 December 2018, 09:54:31
Had the plate locally anodized deep red...does this mean sound vid soon?
(Attachment Link)
More photos:More
Maybe over the weekend... ;)
Post by: juaninamilli on Wed, 12 December 2018, 11:00:07
Had the plate locally anodized deep red...
(Attachment Link)
More photos:More
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 12 December 2018, 11:01:45
But... But... But, north facing LEDsHad the plate locally anodized deep red...
(Attachment Link)
More photos:More
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Didn't notice that, what why?
Post by: bthezebra on Wed, 12 December 2018, 11:14:17
Post by: juaninamilli on Wed, 12 December 2018, 11:16:27
Is the north facing switch layout final?
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: bthezebra on Wed, 12 December 2018, 11:48:32
The PCB won't be included. You supply your own.Good catch, so hype for reflex.Is the north facing switch layout final?
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 12 December 2018, 18:42:07
Of course, you are free to choose your own WK/WKL PCB, and I have some Zeal60 Rev. 4 that are south facing and USB C. :thumb:
Anyway, I'll be using SA Caps, so shouldn't have an effect on typing.
Post by: 1023andy on Fri, 14 December 2018, 09:57:47
Post by: Mcnos on Fri, 14 December 2018, 10:20:34
How are things going? Is the master prototype being made?
Yes
Post by: vikipedeer on Fri, 14 December 2018, 10:45:32
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 15 December 2018, 10:10:37
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Look Ma, no touching!
[attachimg=3]
Working on some typing test videos, trying not to embarrass myself with <40 WPM...
The GB will start after receiving the Paradox and anodizing color samples, which should reach me sometime next week, and determining final anodizing color options. I am also looking at anodizing the cases locally to better control the process, as there is an anodizing factory within walking distance of my workplace.
Sorry for the wait guys, but the group buy will not start until all the pieces for a smooth production run are in place, and the quality of the samples are to my satisfaction.
Post by: bthezebra on Sat, 15 December 2018, 10:22:50
Got the Reflex yesterday, and spent the day measuring & testing the master sample. The machining is top notch, really happy with the tolerances the factory was able to keep.So good need muh speakerboxxx
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Look Ma, no touching!
(Attachment Link)
Working on some typing test videos, trying not to embarrass myself with <40 WPM...
The GB will start after receiving the Paradox and anodizing color samples, which should reach me sometime next week, and determining final anodizing color options. I am also looking at anodizing the cases locally to better control the process, as there is an anodizing factory within walking distance of my workplace.
Sorry for the wait guys, but the group buy will not start until all the pieces for a smooth production run are in place, and the quality of the samples are to my satisfaction.
Post by: otanishock on Sat, 15 December 2018, 12:00:12
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 15 December 2018, 14:04:23
Post by: beekey on Sat, 15 December 2018, 15:54:13
Post by: otanishock on Sat, 15 December 2018, 18:05:14
Looking at the plate, a split space layout is possible? But only stab support for 7u? Or are the holes just for acoustics?
Good question. I guess the layout option is a little bit ambiguous. The plate looks like it supports split space, but Windeh has only confirmed on split backspace thus far. I would love to have split space support, but since that compromises the rigidity of the plate, I doubt this idea would go through.
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 15 December 2018, 23:53:32
- Layout: 60% ANSI WK/WKL with optional split backspace & stepped caps lock
All plate "holes" with rounded corners are relief cuts.
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 15 December 2018, 23:57:36
- Layout: 60% ANSI WK/WKL with split right shift and optional split backspace & stepped caps lock
Post by: vikipedeer on Sun, 16 December 2018, 05:51:23
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 16 December 2018, 06:54:44
Please forgive the terrible typing & recording equipment... but hopefully you get an idea on the stock sounds for the Reflex.
- Reflex Case
- Honeywell ABS SA Caps
- Cherry Black lubed with Tribosys 3204 (the cherries are still quite scratchy, as could be heard from the video)
- Brass Plate
- 70 Duro O-Ring (Viton)
- on Ikea plywood Desk & Novelkeys Deskmat
Sound recorded using Sennheiser headset microphone...
Post by: Mcnos on Sun, 16 December 2018, 06:57:02
Sound test for the Reflex.
Please forgive the terrible typing & recording equipment... but hopefully you get an idea on the stock sounds for the Reflex.
- Reflex Case
- Honeywell ABS SA Caps
- Cherry Black lubed with Tribosys 3204 (the cherries are still quite scratchy, as could be heard from the video)
- Brass Plate
- 70 Duro O-Ring (Viton)
- on Ikea plywood Desk & Novelkeys Deskmat
Sound recorded using Sennheiser headset microphone...
Sounds pretty good, hard to say with SA caps but I can hear the gasket difference
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 16 December 2018, 07:06:13
Sounds pretty good, hard to say with SA caps but I can hear the gasket difference
Yeah really wanted to try GMK but only got into Space Cadet & Modern Dolch... and both are taking their sweet time to ship. :(
Post by: Mcnos on Sun, 16 December 2018, 07:07:38
Sounds pretty good, hard to say with SA caps but I can hear the gasket difference
Yeah really wanted to try GMK but only got into it for Space Cadet & Modern Dolch... and both are taking their sweet time to ship. :(
So what is your take on it in person? The gaskets made a big difference? The spacebar cut out?
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 16 December 2018, 07:18:47
Sounds pretty good, hard to say with SA caps but I can hear the gasket difference
Yeah really wanted to try GMK but only got into it for Space Cadet & Modern Dolch... and both are taking their sweet time to ship. :(
So what is your take on it in person? The gaskets made a big difference? The spacebar cut out?
Changing from 70 Duro to 45 Duro O-rings the difference is quite obvious in person. My personal favorite setup is to have the 45 Duro on the center posts, and 70 Duro on the sides.
Having never typed on aluminium plates, the sensation is quite strange, with more flex and much bassier sounds compared to the brass plate.
Pressing the plate down while installed in the case you can see that the cutout is flexing, and the space bar is much bassier compared to my TX60, although the mounting might have also contributed to the sound differences. But for sure less harsh feeling and less bounce when bottoming.
Post by: wixxzblu on Sun, 16 December 2018, 07:44:13
Sound test for the Reflex.
Please forgive the terrible typing & recording equipment... but hopefully you get an idea on the stock sounds for the Reflex.
- Reflex Case
- Honeywell ABS SA Caps
- Cherry Black lubed with Tribosys 3204 (the cherries are still quite scratchy, as could be heard from the video)
- Brass Plate
- 70 Duro O-Ring (Viton)
- on Ikea plywood Desk & Novelkeys Deskmat
Sound recorded using Sennheiser headset microphone...
It would be much appreciated if you could do future typing tests with cherry profile caps ABS/PBT, i feel like its a better reference point than SA, since SA sounds more the same on any board.
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 16 December 2018, 08:27:53
[It would be much appreciated if you could do future typing tests with cherry profile caps ABS/PBT, i feel like its a better reference point than SA, since SA sounds more the same on any board.
It is interesting you say that... I have 3 boards with SA caps, and I swear they all sound vastly different. :-[
I understand wanting a standardized profile for sound comparison, but everything from room size, table material, deskmat, microphone, typing force etc will give a different sound signature even with the same board.
Comparing sound signature from one person to the next, without standardized setups, is inherently flawed. But it is done because something is better then nothing. And in this case, I have SA caps, but no cherry profile caps, so something > nothing. ;)
As long as I keep my setup consistent across my testing, I think they serve their purpose as a comparison between my setups. :thumb:
Edit: I will do some sound tests with cherry profile caps once I receive my Space Cadet / Modern Dolch of course, but that will most likely happen after the GB as they are not yet shipping...
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 16 December 2018, 08:30:22
It would be much appreciated if you could do future typing tests with cherry profile caps ABS/PBT, i feel like its a better reference point than SA, since SA sounds more the same on any board.
By the way, love your board currently in IC... following closely... ;D
Post by: otanishock on Sun, 16 December 2018, 09:28:55
Post by: wixxzblu on Sun, 16 December 2018, 13:47:06
Thanks for the update. This confirms my theory that gasket mount does make the bottom out sound a bit different which it does, and it does in a very good way. Hopefully the acoustics would remain similar on the Paradox as well.
yeah im hoping paradox sounds just as good
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 18 December 2018, 20:06:32
Post by: Mcnos on Tue, 18 December 2018, 20:07:28
(Attachment Link)
Oof, GB when?
Oh, guess I am hawking this thread lol.
Post by: otanishock on Tue, 18 December 2018, 20:23:53
(Attachment Link)
Oof, GB when?
Oh, guess I am hawking this thread lol.
^ $10^6 question. Also do you have more photos from different angle?
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 19 December 2018, 07:28:15
[attach=1]
Just waiting for a part to come in tomorrow, and I will update with some GB details.
However I would like to get some bad news out of the way first, so that you guys have some time to decide if it affects your decision to join the GB or not.
Unfortunately, both of these options are by far the most popular in the IC polls, and it is regretful that they will not be available for the GB as an option.
- Blue Grey WILL BE REMOVED as an anodizing color option.
- Copper Plate will NOT be offered as an optional extra.
With the bad news out of the way, let me give a little insight on why the most popular options have been removed if you are interested.
Blue Grey was first offered because it is the most trendy color of 2018, maybe as people try to capture some of what made the old OTD boards so classic and sought after.
What IS blue grey? I believe the only shade that is "Correct" for this community is the color ran for the OTD 356.2. A little off, and the color is a disappointment, maybe so much so that a refund will be requested. I even see GB Runners test out tens of samples with different dye ratios to find the correct shade of Blue-Grey. I do not have the budget or the connection (yet) to play that game, so I will not waste resources that will surely be better spent elsewhere on the GB.
The copper plate. I was very excited to offer this option for the GB, and was in a unique position where the factory I am working with offered this material. However a few key reasons means that I had to drop the material as a plate option;
- My design requires that the plate MUST be within a tolerance of ±0.1mm on the 6 mounting post positions, or the plate will simply not fit.
- My plate design, although not too complex, removes a lot of the material from the plate, weakening the overall rigidity.
- Copper is a tricky material to lasercut. It is very reflective to laser, and can easily deform from the heat of the cutting.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
For removing the Blue-Grey option, I will be adding the following popular colors as an alternative for 6063 Aluminium anodizing;
- Deep Red
- Royal/Navy Blue
- Silver
- Rose Gold (Maybe, will see after samples made)
In addition to the original
- Dark Grey
- Black
There will be no change to the Hard Coat Anodizing in Matt Black for 7075-T6 aluminium.
Royal/Dark purple was close to making the list, however I believe that people like the idea of a Purple keyboard, but few actually spend the money to buy one.
I will be moving the sandblasting & anodizing to be done locally in Singapore to better control the finish. Pantone colors will be shown before the GB, and color samples will be made during the GB. You can change colors up to 1 week after the color samples are made and posted.
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 19 December 2018, 07:38:49
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 19 December 2018, 07:54:33
Sounds reasonable to me. If you want to release the plate file at some point, people could choose to have laserboost cut a copper plate at their own expense. They do a fantastic job with the material
I will be happy to send the plate file at buyer's request.
However, I would urge anyone wanting to cut their own copper plate to check with their chosen vendor their guarantee tolerance for laser cutting copper, and in the event that the copper plate does not fit, if there is a good refund policy... :blank:
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 19 December 2018, 08:15:19
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 19 December 2018, 08:20:03
I'm going for 7075 so that doesn't really have an effect much on me. Moving from the era of Korean boards with just silver and black, any other color vibe is already appreciated. Anything new regarding the tolerance issue being fixed with the 2nd prototype?
The issue has been resolved. :thumb:
Post by: ptiede on Wed, 19 December 2018, 08:22:05
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 19 December 2018, 08:56:33
The issue has been resolved. :thumb:Sounds great. So I'm guessing GB is going to happen very soon? Anything else you are waiting on in particular?
Post by: vikipedeer on Wed, 19 December 2018, 09:19:00
can't wait now!
Post by: airlangga07 on Wed, 19 December 2018, 09:34:06
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 19 December 2018, 09:48:17
The issue has been resolved. :thumb:Sounds great. So I'm guessing GB is going to happen very soon? Anything else you are waiting on in particular?
Last plate sample will arrive tomorrow. If there are no issue, I will apply for a GB post, and depending on when that is approved, determine the actual GB date.
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 19 December 2018, 09:53:05
Post by: t0ch on Wed, 19 December 2018, 10:31:18
Your dream board has become my dream board.
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 19 December 2018, 10:33:13
I have been watching from the sidelines since this IC started. I am so excited for the GB.
Your dream board has become my dream board.
Me first, then everyone >:D
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 19 December 2018, 11:05:42
I have been watching from the sidelines since this IC started. I am so excited for the GB.
Your dream board has become my dream board.
Me first, then everyone >:D
Gib me spot and I'll give u madafaka word about modern dolch shishi
Post by: Mcnos on Wed, 19 December 2018, 11:06:57
I have been watching from the sidelines since this IC started. I am so excited for the GB.
Your dream board has become my dream board.
Me first, then everyone >:D
Gib me spot and I'll give u madafaka word about modern dolch shishi
Nope
Post by: bthezebra on Wed, 19 December 2018, 11:43:11
Post by: Starston3 on Wed, 19 December 2018, 12:00:13
Post by: oh_chesteroni on Wed, 19 December 2018, 12:02:53
my card is ready ; )Weird flex, but ok
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Wed, 19 December 2018, 12:17:20
Post by: Starston3 on Wed, 19 December 2018, 12:46:03
What is estimated price, and will it be FCFS?
Around $500 USD and it will be FCFS.
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 19 December 2018, 18:18:03
What is estimated price, and will it be FCFS?
What is estimated price, and will it be FCFS?
Around $500 USD and it will be FCFS.
It will be both FCFS and Raffle. Details will be posted soon.
Post by: dondongler on Thu, 20 December 2018, 08:15:24
Post by: squab on Thu, 20 December 2018, 08:18:05
Looking great, going to try my luck at the fcfs/raffle for a paradox. This case should be compatible with an alps64 pcb right?Should be, but you'd need to get a plate made with suitable switch cutouts.
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 20 December 2018, 10:22:49
Black / Silver
[attachimg=6] [attachimg=1]
Royal Blue / Deep Red / Dark Grey
[attachimg=4] [attachimg=3] [attachimg=2]
Sample chips. Red will be slightly deeper for the GB, similar to the Aluminium Plate
[attachimg=7]
Rose Gold may be offered pending anodizing sample.
[attachimg=5]
Below is the anodizing color for 7075-T6 Aluminium.
Black
[attachimg=6]
Post by: Etherealsound on Thu, 20 December 2018, 10:45:10
Below is the anodizing color options for 6063 Aluminium.
Black / Silver
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
Royal Blue / Deep Red / Dark Grey
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
Sample chips. Red will be slightly deeper for the GB, similar to the Aluminium Plate
(Attachment Link)
Rose Gold may be offered pending anodizing sample.
(Attachment Link)
Below is the anodizing color for 7075-T6 Aluminium.
Black
(Attachment Link)
dayum, that red and grey is insane. Crossing my fingers to get into this..
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 20 December 2018, 11:02:58
GB Pricing (All pricing in USD):
- NO PCB INCLUDED IN THIS GB!
- $490 for base kit includes 6063 Case Top (Standard or WKL) & Case Bottom in normal anodizing, Clear Coated / Raw Sandblasted Brass Weight and Raw Sandblasted Brass Plate
Optional extras:
- $35 for upgrading to 7075-T6 Case Top & Bottom in Matt Black Hard Coat Anodizing.
- $20 for Polished Brass Weight (Polished on exterior sides only, Raw).
- Extra Plates in Raw Sandblasted Brass ($50) / Sandblasted Aluminium (Anodized Deep Red - $60)
$4% PayPal Fees for whole order will be applied.
Shipping cost to be invoiced after packaging your order.
Post by: Starston3 on Thu, 20 December 2018, 11:06:20
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 20 December 2018, 11:30:49
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 20 December 2018, 11:34:10
Post by: heyitsqi on Thu, 20 December 2018, 11:37:11
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 20 December 2018, 11:37:51
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 20 December 2018, 12:28:04
jesus it's nearly the same price as a jane v2 if you add pcb costs in
...and I'm barely breaking even. Both designs will not be ran again in their current form, too expensive to manufacture.
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 20 December 2018, 13:30:27
jesus it's nearly the same price as a jane v2 if you add pcb costs in
...and I'm barely breaking even. Both designs will not be ran again in their current form, too expensive to manufacture.
god damn that's intense
make sure you have a buffer fund just in case
Post by: bthezebra on Thu, 20 December 2018, 13:34:42
Can't wait to try my luck , hoping to give this board a good home, and if I don't make it I can always admire it from a distance.jesus it's nearly the same price as a jane v2 if you add pcb costs in
...and I'm barely breaking even. Both designs will not be ran again in their current form, too expensive to manufacture.
Post by: macclack on Thu, 20 December 2018, 13:37:41
Post by: ptiede on Thu, 20 December 2018, 13:39:31
Me too. Fingers are crossed I land one of these.
Same really want a reflex
Post by: Quantastrophus on Thu, 20 December 2018, 13:56:08
Post by: otanishock on Thu, 20 December 2018, 14:20:39
Post by: Mcnos on Thu, 20 December 2018, 14:23:01
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 20 December 2018, 14:24:21
This pricing is hilariously bad.
Man, it does feel bad when you put in all the effort to make your idea a reality, purchasing prototypes with savings and trying to balance high manufacturing costs while not making a loss, offering the design to the community, to have a prominent GB Runner / designer in the community you admire **** in your thread just before the GB...
What about giving some advise to a first time GB runner and offering a helping hand with maybe good factory contacts so that the community benefits from a lower pricing?
Post by: Remsky on Thu, 20 December 2018, 15:21:42
Post by: bthezebra on Thu, 20 December 2018, 15:41:41
This pricing is hilariously bad.
Hey Quan, I love your designs and your pricing, so I am curious what should the pricing be on this buy? Where do you see the opportunities to cut costs to keep the vision intact?
Post by: Quantastrophus on Thu, 20 December 2018, 16:21:32
This pricing is hilariously bad.
Man, it does feel bad when you put in all the effort to make your idea a reality, purchasing prototypes with savings and trying to balance high manufacturing costs while not making a loss, offering the design to the community, to have a prominent GB Runner / designer in the community you admire **** in your thread just before the GB...
What about giving some advise to a first time GB runner and offering a helping hand with maybe good factory contacts so that the community benefits from a lower pricing?
I'm not really ****ting in your thread, just advising that the pricing is much higher than it needs to be for this design. I'm not denying that you put in hard work to make your idea a reality. I am quite aware of the costs for purchasing prototypes as I do it quite often. I like the design and I think it is unique/refreshing compared to a lot of the posts I see these days. I also don't advise running a GB for a loss.
As for offering a helping hand with factory contacts I'm going to have to pass. Factory information is quite confidential in the community and for good reason. The more boards/GBs running in a factory the longer it will take for the boards/GBs to complete. My factory is already slower than my liking so adding even more load on the production line will be bad for my customers and your customers. I went through around half a dozen factories before arriving at the one I use now. It is not cheap/easy to find a good factory and is one of the most important factors in running successful group buys. A well-machined prototype does not always translate into well-machined/handled group buy units (X60, Mech27v1, probably others).
There are various group buys that have run in the past and that are running right now due to poor factories, to name a few: Mech27v2, entire Noxary line-up. The difference between these group buys is how the GB runners handle these situations. You can go in the dark and shun the community like (27) or you can be responsive and attempt to solve the issues (Xondat).
I'll have to stand by my original statement that $490 per board is too high for the design especially when this is a GB from a first time runner. Unless you are certain that this factory has produced keyboards in the past (I'm not asking you to name keyboards or reveal any factory information) I would warn community members from paying such a high price. If you like the design despite the price tag, by all means purchase the board. I like the design but for $490 from a first time group buy runner. That's gonna be a no from me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry I guess I left out what my advice in the end would be for you.
My advice is to run a cheaper/less complex design first. I know this is your dream design but it is a high risk for participants. Prove out the factory first with a cheaper design and earn the trust of the community. There are reasons people like Yuktsi can run a $500+ GB and people do not bat an eye.
Post by: otanishock on Thu, 20 December 2018, 19:46:54
Post by: mdlt97 on Thu, 20 December 2018, 20:47:56
This pricing is hilariously bad.
Man, it does feel bad when you put in all the effort to make your idea a reality, purchasing prototypes with savings and trying to balance high manufacturing costs while not making a loss, offering the design to the community, to have a prominent GB Runner / designer in the community you admire **** in your thread just before the GB...
What about giving some advise to a first time GB runner and offering a helping hand with maybe good factory contacts so that the community benefits from a lower pricing?
I'm not really ****ting in your thread, just advising that the pricing is much higher than it needs to be for this design. I'm not denying that you put in hard work to make your idea a reality. I am quite aware of the costs for purchasing prototypes as I do it quite often. I like the design and I think it is unique/refreshing compared to a lot of the posts I see these days. I also don't advise running a GB for a loss.
As for offering a helping hand with factory contacts I'm going to have to pass. Factory information is quite confidential in the community and for good reason. The more boards/GBs running in a factory the longer it will take for the boards/GBs to complete. My factory is already slower than my liking so adding even more load on the production line will be bad for my customers and your customers. I went through around half a dozen factories before arriving at the one I use now. It is not cheap/easy to find a good factory and is one of the most important factors in running successful group buys. A well-machined prototype does not always translate into well-machined/handled group buy units (X60, Mech27v1, probably others).
There are various group buys that have run in the past and that are running right now due to poor factories, to name a few: Mech27v2, entire Noxary line-up. The difference between these group buys is how the GB runners handle these situations. You can go in the dark and shun the community like (27) or you can be responsive and attempt to solve the issues (Xondat).
I'll have to stand by my original statement that $490 per board is too high for the design especially when this is a GB from a first time runner. Unless you are certain that this factory has produced keyboards in the past (I'm not asking you to name keyboards or reveal any factory information) I would warn community members from paying such a high price. If you like the design despite the price tag, by all means purchase the board. I like the design but for $490 from a first time group buy runner. That's gonna be a no from me.
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Sorry I guess I left out what my advice in the end would be for you.
My advice is to run a cheaper/less complex design first. I know this is your dream design but it is a high risk for participants. Prove out the factory first with a cheaper design and earn the trust of the community. There are reasons people like Yuktsi can run a $500+ GB and people do not bat an eye.
you are literally running a $120 artisan box that at most cost 50-60 to make so not sure why you are calling someone else out on their pricing, its their gb let them run it how they please and if no one buys it, it will be a lesson to them to try and make more cost effective choice in later gb they may run
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 20 December 2018, 21:12:45
Really think you should switch fabs. I'm also a bit worried about the finishing options for the case seeing as the master prototype did not have a finish, as the tooling marks are still visible. I highly suggest that you hold off on the buy.
Hey Remsky, just quickly address your concern, the prototype was ordered unfinished as intended for judging tolerance. "Machining marks" are absolutely normal and will be easily removed by sandblasting prior to anodizing. The anodizing will be done locally in a factory near my workplace to better control the finish, and not by the machining factory.
As to Quantrik's raised point, I really do appreciate you taking the time to post what you did.
I think a couple VERY enthusiastic members can attest when messaging me on whether they can purchase both designs during the GB, I gave them the same advise, that I hope they are cautiously optimistic, as I am a first time GB runner, that if they really like the design, to just join for one of the boards, and have a feel for how the GB is run, how the case feels in use, the quality of the finish and how any issues are handled.
Running 15 units for each design was so that I will be able to handle the QC & logistics for my first buy, while keeping the cost somewhat in check. Should **** hit the fan, I am financially stable enough to simply refund all participants. I never hid the fact that the price was going to be high for this GB, and throughout this IC and in the forms, I noted the $450-$500 price tag, and if people are still interested in joining.
I have been more then transparent throughout this IC, answering any questions and concerns people may have while giving (maybe too much) detail on how the project is going, and what will happen next as we approach closer the group buy. This will not change after collecting the money.
And to Pudssy's point, I have cost in buffers for any issues that may arise as any responsible GB runner should. :thumb:
Anyway, The GB will proceed, all the pieces are in place for production. I'm sure the community is well aware that the price is very high for a 60% board without a PCB included. These designs will be run now or never, as even if a factory that can achieve the same quality at a much lower pricing can be found, additional prototyping will need to be done at the new factory, and all the costs up to this point will be costed in to the final GB cost. Not going through with this GB doe not mean that the costs up to this point magically disappears.
Hopefully the concerns on pricing have been highlighted for all to seriously consider, and we can move on. The pricing will remain, and members can decide for themselves if they would like to participate in this group buy. The MOQ is 30 units total, and failing this MOQ, the GB will be cancelled.
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 20 December 2018, 21:15:05
Post by: 1023andy on Thu, 20 December 2018, 21:15:22
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 20 December 2018, 21:18:00
I've asked all of the shops around me and no one does it. I even got pointed to a national "finisher" web portal, but I don't have any shops near me at all :(
Trying to talk Laserboost into offering it :cool:
Post by: Mcnos on Thu, 20 December 2018, 21:21:33
Thanks for being professional.
Post by: ptiede on Thu, 20 December 2018, 21:25:48
Post by: dyrdevil on Thu, 20 December 2018, 21:26:40
You come across as very responsible and I will be watching anything you do next with great notice.
Post by: otanishock on Thu, 20 December 2018, 22:01:02
Still in.Let us know when the GB is about to launch. Also don't count on Mcnos. He's lying. Can't be trusted. Dude loves his e6 so much he prolly won't even consider any other 60% :thumb:
Thanks for being professional.
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 20 December 2018, 22:33:01
Does your shop offer PVD coating? I'd be more than happy to pay extra for a 1 off black coating on the brass plate if I get in :)
I've asked all of the shops around me and no one does it. I even got pointed to a national "finisher" web portal, but I don't have any shops near me at all :(
Trying to talk Laserboost into offering it :cool:
PVD normally have quite a high MOQ to process, and my main concern is that to PVD Brass, a base layer or nickle/chromium will need to be electroplate onto the surface first prior to applying the PVD. Although the PVD coating itself is very thin, the plating does have a noticable thickness, which may affect the fitment of switches on an already snug plate...
I would suggest finding a Cerakoat applicator in your area. Not only does it not affect fitment & readily available with no MOQ, the ceramic based coating is much more durable then PVD as used for cosmetic purposes. :thumb:
How much would the shipping cost? I guess it's not included in 490
Shipping will be from Singapore using DHL/UPS/TNT/Fedex, whichever have best rate to your area, and invoiced once your order is packed. Will probably be around 60USD to Korea, but not sure until I have the package ready.
Please note that you will be responsible for any import duties imposed in your country. The declared value will be accurate for insurance purposes.
I will likely not be purchasing this right now, as I noted on my IC form response, but I just wanted to say that I've really appreciated your transparency and frequency of updates/explanations throughout the IC.
You come across as very responsible and I will be watching anything you do next with great notice.
Hey thanks for the kind word. I am well aware as a first time runner, appropriate skepticism is put on me, and well deserved too.
I am running the IC and the GB in the shoe of potential interested members, and how I'd like to see the runner operates if I was to join a GB.
Post by: jumpmineralwater on Thu, 20 December 2018, 22:46:56
Thanks for all the updates :thumb: and hope I can get a spot.
Post by: airlangga07 on Thu, 20 December 2018, 22:51:36
Does your shop offer PVD coating? I'd be more than happy to pay extra for a 1 off black coating on the brass plate if I get in :)
I've asked all of the shops around me and no one does it. I even got pointed to a national "finisher" web portal, but I don't have any shops near me at all :(
Trying to talk Laserboost into offering it :cool:
PVD normally have quite a high MOQ to process, and my main concern is that to PVD Brass, a base layer or nickle/chromium will need to be electroplate onto the surface first prior to applying the PVD. Although the PVD coating itself is very thin, the plating does have a noticable thickness, which may affect the fitment of switches on an already snug plate...
I would suggest finding a Cerakoat applicator in your area. Not only does it not affect fitment & readily available with no MOQ, the ceramic based coating is much more durable then PVD as used for cosmetic purposes. :thumb:How much would the shipping cost? I guess it's not included in 490
Shipping will be from Singapore using DHL/UPS/TNT/Fedex, whichever have best rate to your area, and invoiced once your order is packed. Will probably be around 60USD to Korea, but not sure until I have the package ready.
Please note that you will be responsible for any import duties imposed in your country. The declared value will be accurate for insurance purposes.I will likely not be purchasing this right now, as I noted on my IC form response, but I just wanted to say that I've really appreciated your transparency and frequency of updates/explanations throughout the IC.
You come across as very responsible and I will be watching anything you do next with great notice.
Hey thanks for the kind word. I am well aware as a first time runner, appropriate skepticism is put on me, and well deserved too.
I am running the IC and the GB in the shoe of potential interested members, and how I'd like to see the runner operates if I was to join a GB.
will your provide free shipping for locals? :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 20 December 2018, 23:17:56
will your provide free shipping for locals? :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Afraid not :( I will still have to ship to PayPal Registered address for record of shipment. I'll see what's the most economical local posting option with signature of recipient.
Post by: repuls0r on Thu, 20 December 2018, 23:42:41
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 20 December 2018, 23:54:53
For locals must payment still go through paypal and be in USD? Any possibility of local bank transfers?
As my suppliers are all using USD, I do hope it is the default currency for this GB or it will get complicated. All payments will go through PayPal as I'd still like for all participants to have PayPal Buyer Protection, at least for my first GB.
Post by: fishinaspacesuit on Thu, 20 December 2018, 23:59:01
Post by: 1023andy on Fri, 21 December 2018, 00:09:01
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 21 December 2018, 00:44:02
I don't know how paypal works but can you finish purchase with just a credit card?
I think you can link your credit card to your PayPal account and pay that way.
Try this link for PayPal Korea https://www.paypal.com/kr/home
If you join the GB, I will send you an invoice to your PayPal Account, and you can pay directly from there. Set up an account is a good idea as most international GBs are paid using PayPal.
Post by: 1023andy on Fri, 21 December 2018, 00:54:19
Post by: airlangga07 on Fri, 21 December 2018, 01:11:50
will your provide free shipping for locals? :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Afraid not :( I will still have to ship to PayPal Registered address for record of shipment. I'll see what's the most economical local posting option with signature of recipient.
Thanks for the response! Before into the shipping matters, I guess the only thing remaining is to get a spot. Which I believe will be a tough competition. What will be the procedure of the GB and when the estimated GB date?
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 21 December 2018, 02:56:44
Yeah I guess I will have to make one. When is the estimate date for the GB to start?
will your provide free shipping for locals? :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Afraid not :( I will still have to ship to PayPal Registered address for record of shipment. I'll see what's the most economical local posting option with signature of recipient.
Thanks for the response! Before into the shipping matters, I guess the only thing remaining is to get a spot. Which I believe will be a tough competition. What will be the procedure of the GB and when the estimated GB date?
Working on it guys... already taken a day off work to catch up on setting up the GB page and order form, gotta grab some lunch soon before I pass out :-X
The GB page should be up this weekend pending Mod approval, and the GB start date & time will be announced. :D
Post by: Mcnos on Fri, 21 December 2018, 07:00:46
Yeah I guess I will have to make one. When is the estimate date for the GB to start?will your provide free shipping for locals? :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Afraid not :( I will still have to ship to PayPal Registered address for record of shipment. I'll see what's the most economical local posting option with signature of recipient.
Thanks for the response! Before into the shipping matters, I guess the only thing remaining is to get a spot. Which I believe will be a tough competition. What will be the procedure of the GB and when the estimated GB date?
Working on it guys... already taken a day off work to catch up on setting up the GB page and order form, gotta grab some lunch soon before I pass out :-X
The GB page should be up this weekend pending Mod approval, and the GB start date & time will be announced. :D
I'm ready, not sure about everyone else though, cause I AM
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 21 December 2018, 08:09:25
E6 is gud nuff. You don't need 2 60's. Kkk thanx
I'm ready, not sure about everyone else though, cause I AM
Post by: vikipedeer on Fri, 21 December 2018, 08:10:40
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 02:58:59
Post by: patch on Sat, 22 December 2018, 07:27:44
thank you!
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 08:30:38
hi there! interested in this board! just a question tho,when the post gets approved, does that automatically mean that the fcfs would start as well OR will there be an announcement when the form will open?
thank you!
GB start time will be announced after the post is approved to give everyone some time to read through the GB rules and get ready. :thumb:
Post by: patch on Sat, 22 December 2018, 08:31:46
hi there! interested in this board! just a question tho,when the post gets approved, does that automatically mean that the fcfs would start as well OR will there be an announcement when the form will open?
thank you!
GB start time will be announced after the post is approved to give everyone some time to read through the GB rules and get ready. :thumb:
thanks man! hope to snag one myself. cheers!
Post by: macclack on Sat, 22 December 2018, 08:35:30
hi there! interested in this board! just a question tho,when the post gets approved, does that automatically mean that the fcfs would start as well OR will there be an announcement when the form will open?
thank you!
GB start time will be announced after the post is approved to give everyone some time to read through the GB rules and get ready. :thumb:
Can’t wait!
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 23:18:17
Post by: Mcnos on Sat, 22 December 2018, 23:21:12
Sent Mods a poke for the GB post approval, not sure usually how long these things take to get approved...
It takes a bit of time. It's not super fast lol.
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 22 December 2018, 23:28:19
Sent Mods a poke for the GB post approval, not sure usually how long these things take to get approved...
usually a day or two
slows down on weekends
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 23:37:36
Sent Mods a poke for the GB post approval, not sure usually how long these things take to get approved...
It takes a bit of time. It's not super fast lol.
Sent Mods a poke for the GB post approval, not sure usually how long these things take to get approved...
usually a day or two
slows down on weekends
Alright thanks, probably with the coming holidays too.
Post by: mdlt97 on Sun, 23 December 2018, 00:47:02
if i can 100% gonna be buying
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 23 December 2018, 10:56:04
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=98685.0