Author Topic: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% O-Ring Mount (GB Preparation)  (Read 76120 times)

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Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #100 on: Wed, 07 November 2018, 05:58:18 »
These are looking really great. I think that a sound test between the two would really help people decide between whether reflex or paradox is preferred since it's hard to say how big of a difference the reflex will make on the sound. I personally think paradox looks nicer but don't know how big of a difference the vents on the bottom will make on sound.

Thanks! I don't have any quality microphone, only what is on my phone or webcam, so not sure if it will pickup anything useful... also the auto-leveling EQ on these devises likely will even out any differences in volume. Anyway I'll see what I can do when the prototypes are received.  :thumb:


When are the full protos expected to arrive?

That is a great question!!!  :-X

It should have arrived this week, however the factory reported that there were color unevenness on the dark grey hard coat anodizing finish. They offered to paint over or re-anodize the part, however I rejected the proposals and asked them to re-machine the case, and anodize the new part in hard coat black.

I was hoping that this wouldn't be an issue, however hard coat anodizing on 7075 aluminium are notoriously difficult to dye evenly in any color other then black... In the end the dark grey option may only be offered for normal anodizing, unless the buyer is willing to take the risk of color blemishes.

Anyway, this is only the first round of prototypes. I will request full anodize color samples prior to official GB, and decide final finish options then.

The redone case is scheduled to complete early next week, hopefully to be received by end of that week. 
« Last Edit: Wed, 07 November 2018, 06:00:48 by Windeh »

Offline 1023andy

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #101 on: Wed, 07 November 2018, 07:39:04 »
I thought you ordered 2 prototypes. What happened to the other one?

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #102 on: Wed, 07 November 2018, 08:20:53 »
I thought you ordered 2 prototypes. What happened to the other one?

Awaiting shipment with the rest of the order...  :(
« Last Edit: Wed, 07 November 2018, 08:23:30 by Windeh »

Offline dyrdevil

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #103 on: Wed, 07 November 2018, 10:31:57 »
Just found this, it looks super interesting and you seem like a very organized individual.  Good luck! Should I fill out the IC form?

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #104 on: Thu, 08 November 2018, 04:31:33 »
Just found this, it looks super interesting and you seem like a very organized individual.  Good luck! Should I fill out the IC form?

Thanks for the kind words. If you are interest in joining the GB, by all means fill out the form!  :thumb:

Offline matrixzj

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #105 on: Thu, 08 November 2018, 21:10:47 »
looks like more players are interested with this design. Is it possible to increase quantity of GB ? 10-15 is quite few
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Offline stepstone82

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #106 on: Thu, 08 November 2018, 21:22:56 »
looks like more players are interested with this design. Is it possible to increase quantity of GB ? 10-15 is quite few
Agree!

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Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #107 on: Fri, 09 November 2018, 01:08:22 »
looks like more players are interested with this design. Is it possible to increase quantity of GB ? 10-15 is quite few
Agree!

나의 LGM-G600S 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄

I may increase available spots to 20-30 judging from the interest both in this thread & from submitted forms.

Again, final GB pricing and available options have yet to be confirmed, and we're still waiting to receive our first full prototype, so I wouldn't worry about not being able to secure a GB spot quite so early.

Let's see how the physical samples turns out first.  ;)

Offline airlangga07

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #108 on: Fri, 09 November 2018, 01:34:35 »
I am innn!!

Offline AlcoholEnthusiast

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #109 on: Sat, 10 November 2018, 19:27:15 »
Filled out IC. Want to see what prototype looks like, especially all built with caps, etc. Following closely though!

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #110 on: Sun, 11 November 2018, 08:11:19 »
Updated plate design.

207040-0

Offline Mcnos

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #111 on: Sun, 11 November 2018, 12:19:58 »
Updated plate design.

(Attachment Link)

What was wrong with the original plate design?

Offline loud_asian

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #112 on: Sun, 11 November 2018, 18:42:24 »
Updated plate design.

(Attachment Link)

What was wrong with the original plate design?

New one seems to allow more flex on the spacebar switch
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Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #113 on: Mon, 12 November 2018, 11:35:29 »
207103-0


Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #115 on: Mon, 12 November 2018, 12:07:56 »
Did you ever mention who you will use to manuf. these boards?  Have they done work for a previous maker?


Offline HardcoreDesk

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #117 on: Mon, 12 November 2018, 15:12:23 »
Board looks great in that picture! Only things that look off to me are anno consistency between top/bottom and maybe the roughness, but hard to tell from that angle. Still very excited for this board!

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #118 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 01:37:55 »
Did you ever mention who you will use to manuf. these boards?  Have they done work for a previous maker?

I have not confirmed which factory will be making my boards for the GB, but most likely will not be related to any past makers.

Board looks great in that picture! Only things that look off to me are anno consistency between top/bottom and maybe the roughness, but hard to tell from that angle. Still very excited for this board!

I understand that for many, surface finish is one of the most crucial part of a custom keyboard. Unfortunately 7075 grade aluminium is also one of the toughest to dye consistently due to high zinc content. For me this is a non-issue, or I would have gone with 606X grade like every other custom currently running.

Even with a good finish on my prototype, I would not want to risk returns due to less then perfect anodizing. Therefore I will likely offer the board in 6063 as standard configuration, and 7075 as optional for those preferring the material.

Even with 6063, I cannot guarantee perfect anodizing. So if anyone that are very particular with the surface finish, please refrain from joining this GB.
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 November 2018, 01:47:20 by Windeh »

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #119 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 01:51:27 »
By the way, more info on the prototype to come, just received it yesterday and spent the whole night experimenting with the mount...  :cool:

Offline 1023andy

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #120 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 03:25:05 »
Do you have any reason for choosing 7075 instead of stuff like 6063? Most customs seem to use 6063 or something close except those titanium or stainless steel ones. And I'm fine with the ano if there is no huge dent or marks.

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #121 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 04:07:29 »
Do you have any reason for choosing 7075 instead of stuff like 6063? Most customs seem to use 6063 or something close except those titanium or stainless steel ones. And I'm fine with the ano if there is no huge dent or marks.

Almost any grade of aluminum will function fine as the case material for a keyboard. I chose 7075 because it is extensively used in the firearms industry, where together with hard coat anodizing, are the standard for toughness and durability.

I like the idea that the keyboard will not need to be babied, and will become a workhorse for the rest of the user's lifetime and beyond.



I know there are people in the hobby that looks at the anodizing through a microscope, and I'm hoping that they do not join this group buy. Please rest assured that I will do all I can to push the factory for the best finish they can achieve, and I will personally attend factory acceptance test and inspect the parts before accepting the delivery. The first prototype was rejected by me due to a minor color inconsistency that would past QC of some makers, but I still need to tame people's expectations, as anodizing quality is not a tolerance I can specify.
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 November 2018, 04:09:21 by Windeh »

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #122 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:01:11 »
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...

207130-0

By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount...  HUGE difference!! :eek:

Offline cldskt

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #123 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:03:38 »
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...

(Attachment Link)

By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount...  HUGE difference!! :eek:

You coming to Dec meetup? Curious to know how the board feels irl.


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Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #124 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:12:02 »
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...

(Attachment Link)

By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount...  HUGE difference!! :eek:

You coming to Dec meetup? Curious to know how the board feels irl.

Is that in the US?  :-X Don't think I'd want to put in the price of the return ticket from Singapore to the US as part of the cost of this groupbuy...  :D

Offline cldskt

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #125 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:13:25 »
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...

(Attachment Link)

By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount...  HUGE difference!! :eek:

You coming to Dec meetup? Curious to know how the board feels irl.

Is that in the US?  :-X Don't think I'd want to put in the price of the return ticket from Singapore to the US as part of the cost of this groupbuy...  :D

Nah fam the meetup is in SG. Asked because I know you are local. You are from SG yes?


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Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #126 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:17:35 »
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...

(Attachment Link)

By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount...  HUGE difference!! :eek:

You coming to Dec meetup? Curious to know how the board feels irl.

Is that in the US?  :-X Don't think I'd want to put in the price of the return ticket from Singapore to the US as part of the cost of this groupbuy...  :D

Nah fam the meetup is in SG. Asked because I know you are local. You are from SG yes?

Oof I see, yes I am based in Singapore. When is this meetup? Ideally I would like to demo using the final prototype as there will be some internal updates to the design.

Offline cldskt

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #127 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:18:17 »
Just got some O-Rings in NBR, Silicone & Viton...

(Attachment Link)

By changing from Silicone (~45 Durometer) to Viton (80 durometer), the sound and feel of the keyboard changed from a stiffer PCB mount to almost Sandwich mount...  HUGE difference!! :eek:

You coming to Dec meetup? Curious to know how the board feels irl.

Is that in the US?  :-X Don't think I'd want to put in the price of the return ticket from Singapore to the US as part of the cost of this groupbuy...  :D

Nah fam the meetup is in SG. Asked because I know you are local. You are from SG yes?

Oof I see, yes I am based in Singapore. When is this meetup? Ideally I would like to demo using the final prototype as there will be some internal updates to the design.

You have a discord account? Wouldn’t want to flood the thread lol.


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Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #128 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:19:56 »
I do, under the same name.  :thumb:

By the way only recently started using discord, not sure what you need to find my account... but we can continue the conversation in PM for now.
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:21:44 by Windeh »

Offline slxdegrees

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #129 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 05:27:54 »
I do, under the same name.  :thumb:

By the way only recently started using discord, not sure what you need to find my account... but we can continue the conversation in PM for now.
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Offline matrixzj

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #130 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 08:40:45 »
(Attachment Link)

this photo is really nice and tempting :)  and I am unable waiting for it . Let's rock it.

shall we include   Silicone (~45 durometer) and  Viton (80 durometer) in the set? bring more choices for joiners
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Offline garbo

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #131 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 09:36:37 »
Are you able to record some video in a typing test style —or at least something quick to try and demonstrate flex, etc? Would be interesting to see/hear this type of plate mounting in action.

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #132 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 09:55:00 »
(Attachment Link)

this photo is really nice and tempting :)  and I am unable waiting for it . Let's rock it.

shall we include   Silicone (~45 durometer) and  Viton (80 durometer) in the set? bring more choices for joiners

Of course, I will include the Silicone, Viton and NBR O-Rings in each GB Order.  :thumb:  Didn't realize they were so expensive... :-X

Are you able to record some video in a typing test style —or at least something quick to try and demonstrate flex, etc? Would be interesting to see/hear this type of plate mounting in action.

That is definitely on my list of things to do. Unfortunately I'm currently running unlubed Halo Clears in the prototype, and they sound like arse... I have some V2 Tealios and Zealios on order, and will be able to lube them and compare with my TX60 side by side.  :thumb:

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #133 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 10:20:11 »
Updated plate design.

(Attachment Link)

What was wrong with the original plate design?

The short answer is... nothing.

The design is still evolving, and if I find a better solution to a problem, I try to implement it.

This is a list of outdated revisions on each of the keyboard parts, even before receiving the prototype. Each update had significant enough changes for there to warrant a new revision.



Not all changes are publicized as most are internal optimizations, but thought the group would be interested in the latest plate design. I was running stress & deformation analysis, trying to find a balance between dampening the spacebar and creating an even keystroke sound & feel on Row 4. The design may very well change again through the same process above.

Also added a few meme relief cuts cus apparently they make the keyboard better.

The design will be locked prior to ordering a final prototype as a last check before starting the GB.
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 November 2018, 10:33:42 by Windeh »

Offline beekey

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #134 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 11:53:40 »
Updated plate design.

(Attachment Link)
But this world not allow a split space kayout, right? Would love a split space 2.25,1.25,2.75 deticated plate. Or some small additional cutouts in this one for the stabs.

Offline bthezebra

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #135 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 18:19:53 »
Winheh would you consider a half plate as well?

Offline bdkrzy

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #136 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 19:38:17 »

The first prototype was rejected by me due to a minor color inconsistency that would past QC of some makers, but I still need to tame people's expectations, as anodizing quality is not a tolerance I can specify.

If you come into a GB with this mentality as a GB runner, then I am VERY VERY interested in this board. Mind if I ask what is the general difference betwwen 6063 and 7075 aluminum? In terms of sounds/feeling?

Offline hineybush

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #137 on: Tue, 13 November 2018, 21:13:59 »

The first prototype was rejected by me due to a minor color inconsistency that would past QC of some makers, but I still need to tame people's expectations, as anodizing quality is not a tolerance I can specify.

If you come into a GB with this mentality as a GB runner, then I am VERY VERY interested in this board. Mind if I ask what is the general difference betwwen 6063 and 7075 aluminum? In terms of sounds/feeling?

they're pretty similar. 6061/6063 take color better when anodized, 7075 is typically reserved for silver/greys/black ano. 7075 is also a tougher/more resilient material

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #138 on: Wed, 14 November 2018, 05:36:57 »
Winheh would you consider a half plate as well?

With the right plate material and O-Ring hardness, you can setup a board that is quite similar to half plate, but much more consistent in feel across all keys.  ;)



The first prototype was rejected by me due to a minor color inconsistency that would past QC of some makers, but I still need to tame people's expectations, as anodizing quality is not a tolerance I can specify.

If you come into a GB with this mentality as a GB runner, then I am VERY VERY interested in this board. Mind if I ask what is the general difference betwwen 6063 and 7075 aluminum? In terms of sounds/feeling?

As hiney said, you will not notice a difference between the 2 materials in terms of typing experience. If you have no preference, I'd go with 6 series aluminium for their relative ease of machining & anodizing consistancy.  :thumb:

Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #139 on: Wed, 14 November 2018, 05:51:52 »
Some Reflex love
207172-0

207174-1

207178-2

And the screw...
207176-3

Offline otanishock

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #140 on: Wed, 14 November 2018, 05:58:35 »
hot hot hot. But Paradox is where my heart is at. Any more pic incoming?

Offline 1023andy

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #141 on: Wed, 14 November 2018, 09:25:06 »
That looks so great. Is it 7075 with hard coat anodizing?

Offline funderburker

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #142 on: Wed, 14 November 2018, 09:37:08 »
Some Reflex love
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

And the screw...
(Attachment Link)

Noice. Gotta work a bit on the plate design but the finish looks extremely well done.

What's the sound btw? That's main question with Reflex.
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Offline Windeh

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #143 on: Wed, 14 November 2018, 10:38:52 »

That looks so great. Is it 7075 with hard coat anodizing?

Thanks! Yes, the Reflex in the photo is 7075-T6 with hard coat anodizing dyed black.


hot hot hot. But Paradox is where my heart is at. Any more pic incoming?

More photos to come for sure. Need more hours in the day...  :-X


Some Reflex love
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

And the screw...
(Attachment Link)

Noice. Gotta work a bit on the plate design but the finish looks extremely well done.

What's the sound btw? That's main question with Reflex.

Thanks! The plate in the Reflex was my very first design, that was ordered together with the prototype. The latest design looks quite different, and should be almost final...

As for the Reflex, there was an overlooked & hilarious issue with the prototype, that I may go into more detail over the next few days...  ;)

But this is what ordering prototypes are for. Nothing like a physical item in hand for debugging any issues, which will all be ironed out before the GB.  :thumb:
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 November 2018, 10:46:26 by Windeh »

Offline vikipedeer

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #144 on: Wed, 14 November 2018, 11:14:21 »
at first I was looking more at the Paradox but Reflex is slowing growing on me.....
"Why not both?"
(I'm just kidding but if you do actually offfer both of them I might just get both, lol)
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Offline otanishock

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #145 on: Wed, 14 November 2018, 11:20:15 »
So...the million $ question. Reflex or Paradox? lol

Offline Mcnos

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #146 on: Wed, 14 November 2018, 18:46:59 »
So...the million $ question. Reflex or Paradox? lol

I'm going paradox  :thumb:

Offline Zytyx

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #147 on: Wed, 14 November 2018, 19:29:03 »
Definitely reflex for me!

Offline otanishock

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #148 on: Thu, 15 November 2018, 00:12:03 »
Voted for paradox!

Offline AlcoholEnthusiast

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Re: [IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% WKL by Windeh (Updated IC Form - Oct 29)
« Reply #149 on: Thu, 15 November 2018, 00:49:36 »
paradox here