Author Topic: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment  (Read 30780 times)

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Offline rowdy

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Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 06:19:43 »
Having tried an old NEC mechanical keyboard, MX blue, black and red, and recently Topre in the form of a HHKB 2 Pro, I was wondering about buckling spring.  The opportunity arose to acquire two Model M keyboards in reasonably clean condition, albeit with some missing keycaps and neither with a cable, and in unknown operational condition.

They were found, bid, won and collected in the same day, all for $31 plus a few minutes or my time to pick them up.

The first one, the older of the two, was born 02-Mar-1993.  It is a 51G8572 with a detachable cable (which someone detached and lost), and is PS/2.







And the younger one, by two years, from 29-Nov-1995.  THis one is a 52G9658, has a non-detachable cable (which someone has detached anyway with a pair of wire cutters), and is also PS/2.







The following posts will probably detail my efforts to see if they work, replace the missing bits, and actually put them to use.

It is more a record for myself, to keep all the information in one place, but might be of interest or information to someone else.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Tym

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 06:25:44 »
GLWR(estoration)

I like these threads, they're generally interesting, although you should pimp it out. Solid gold body, 16" alloys, underskirt lighting.
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 06:31:00 »
Last weekend (13..14-Jul-2013) I decided to clean the keycaps, not having a 5.5mm socket driver and thus unable to open either case.

It was a simple matter of removing the keycaps:



Digging out the denture tablets:



The keyboards were actually fairly clean - almost no dust on the black plate:



Soak the keycaps in hot (not boiling) water with 3 denture tablets:



Until the water turns clear:



(although for the second keyboard, the water actually turned brown)

Then leave hte keycaps on a sheet of newspaper or similar to dry:



The results were surprisingly good, although there is no photo due to bad light (been raining most of the day).

I did discover that one space bar had lost one of the clips that holds the stabiliser bar on - so a space bar is added to the list of keycaps I need to get.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 06:52:51 »
GLWR(estoration)

I like these threads, they're generally interesting, although you should pimp it out. Solid gold body, 16" alloys, underskirt lighting.

Thanks for that!

Never mind about the gold body, or even gold plating, I'm just hoping to save up for some replacement keycaps and a cable or two ;)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 07:03:25 »
Neither keyboard has a cable.  One has an SDL socket, so I'll probably get one of orihalcon's SDL/USB cables.

The other one has about 5cm remaining of a snipped non-detachable cable.  The plan is to replace that cable with one salvaged from an old rubber dome keyboard.

Unfortunately none of my sockets were small enough to fit in the holes in the back of the Model M, and the ones that were small enough to fit were to small to actually fit over the screw head.  Off to eBay again.

Well, this evening my 5.5mm socket driver from China arrived!



With the right tool it only took a few minutes to separate the case halves and extract what is left of the cable.



Earlier in the week I salvaged this cable from an old rubber dome keyboard.  It already has not only a ferrite bead, but a ground connector too!  It's also beige!



Now it is just a case of finding pinouts for both connectors (some information has already been found), and cutting and soldering the two together.

"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 07:33:47 »
It is a shame that both boards are missing Left Shift. That will be a bit harder to find than standard keys.

You should bolt-mod and pimp out one of the boards, and leave the other one dead-stock for compare and contrast.

Nice work so far.
"It turns out that for a decade, whenever Trump wanted to get a loan, or make a deal, he would inflate the value of his real estate. For instance, suggesting that his 11,000-square foot penthouse was a 30,000-square foot penthouse.
And the attorney general of New York knew that Trump's property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties.
It was all part of a very sophisticated real estate practice known as “lying.”
- Jon Stewart 2024-03-28

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 07:45:52 »
Thanks for posting up the detailed photos and info, this could come in handy some day!!

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 19:34:00 »
It is a shame that both boards are missing Left Shift. That will be a bit harder to find than standard keys.

You should bolt-mod and pimp out one of the boards, and leave the other one dead-stock for compare and contrast.

Nice work so far.

At this stage I don't know if either of them works.  The plan is to do as little as possible until I know they actually work, then go from there.

The way is pretty clear to remaking the PS/2 cable, but I'll have to dig an old computer out of retirement to test it in the absence of a PS/2 to USB adaptor.

It's nearly $50 for me to get a SDL/USB cable - that will probably come after the keycaps, once I find out whether the cabled M works.

Thanks for posting up the detailed photos and info, this could come in handy some day!!

I hope so! :)

If there's anything in particular anyone you like to see a picture of, let me know and I'll try to oblige.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline MOZ

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 20:24:27 »
Last weekend (13..14-Jul-2013) I decided to clean the keycaps, not having a 5.5mm socket driver and thus unable to open either case.

It was a simple matter of removing the keycaps:

Show Image


Digging out the denture tablets:

Show Image


The keyboards were actually fairly clean - almost no dust on the black plate:

Show Image


Soak the keycaps in hot (not boiling) water with 3 denture tablets:

Show Image


Until the water turns clear:

Show Image


(although for the second keyboard, the water actually turned brown)

Then leave hte keycaps on a sheet of newspaper or similar to dry:

Show Image


The results were surprisingly good, although there is no photo due to bad light (been raining most of the day).

I did discover that one space bar had lost one of the clips that holds the stabiliser bar on - so a space bar is added to the list of keycaps I need to get.

Having tried an old NEC mechanical keyboard, MX blue, black and red, and recently Topre in the form of a HHKB 2 Pro, I was wondering about buckling spring.  The opportunity arose to acquire two Model M keyboards in reasonably clean condition, albeit with some missing keycaps and neither with a cable, and in unknown operational condition.

They were found, bid, won and collected in the same day, all for $31 plus a few minutes or my time to pick them up.

The first one, the older of the two, was born 02-Mar-1993.  It is a 51G8572 with a detachable cable (which someone detached and lost), and is PS/2.

Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


And the younger one, by two years, from 29-Nov-1995.  THis one is a 52G9658, has a non-detachable cable (which someone has detached anyway with a pair of wire cutters), and is also PS/2.

Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


The following posts will probably detail my efforts to see if they work, replace the missing bits, and actually put them to use.

It is more a record for myself, to keep all the information in one place, but might be of interest or information to someone else.

How did the legends disappear?  :-\

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 23:20:53 »
How did the legends disappear?  :-\

The legends did not actually disappear.

Older buckling spring keycaps come in two parts - the stem that fits into the hole on the keyboard and connects to the spring, and a cover with the legend printed on it.

There's quite a good picture illustrating it here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45327.msg949831#msg949831

Newer buckling spring keycaps are one piece i.e. removing the keycap will take the entire stem with it.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 03:06:30 »
Forgot to mention, I found these rattling around inside the case when I opened it.  Wonder how much I could get if I sold them on eBay?



Candidate for a bolt mod?  Perhaps.  Once the operational state is confirmed.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline MOZ

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 04:45:23 »
I feel like a complete noob, oh wait, I am one.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 04:50:56 »
Mainly from here and here, I have come up with the following:

PS/2:
    yellow = pin 5 = clock
    red = pin 1 = data
    green = pin 4 = +5V
    white = pin 3 = ground

IBM 4 pin connector:
    red = clock
    yellow = data
    black = +5V
    white = ground

So I should be able to connect (PS/2 to IBM) yellow to red, red to yellow, green to black and white to white.

White is the same, red/yellow are swapped - a standard would be nice.  Although the nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.

I have also dug the old soldering iron out, and the solder,

Now whether to just join the ends of the wires together (I never quite got the hang of doing that), or use a teeny tiny section of breadboard instead?  Breadboard easier, but splicing neater (with heat shrink tubing, I should dig that out too).



Or I could just be lazy and tin the end of the wire from the IBM plug, insert them into the respective sockets in the PS/2 socket and wrap some tape around it.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 04:52:16 »
I feel like a complete noob, oh wait, I am one.

Not at all!

The Model M is different to most modern keyboards in that respect.  I did not know this either, until I actually got my Model Ms and had to start learning about them.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 18:38:19 »
It is a shame that both boards are missing Left Shift. That will be a bit harder to find than standard keys.

Another thought about this - I could get the RGB modifiers from Unicomp - problem solved!

With the RGB modifiers, I would just be missing the Caps Lock to make a single full set of keycaps.

Next update: I have confirmed the pinouts summarised above from two different online sources (although I don't know if the two online sources just copied each other).

Next is to warm the old soldering iron up.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 21:13:00 »
Yesterday was apparently the coldest July day Melbourne had experienced since 2006, or something like that.  Last night was cold, this morning was about 5 degrees.  It seemed an appropriate time to start soldering.

First up was to tin the wires on what is left of the IBM plug (tinning, for those unfamiliar with it, is the process of applying a little solder to the bare end of the wire.  This serves to stop the wire from fraying while soldering it to something else, and to help the solder flow onto the wire later on):



Then to extract the connectors from the keyboard end of the PS/2 cable, so I could snip the wires as close to the connector as possible:



Then a bit more tinning:



Next up was to connect bare wire ends, REMEMBERING to put the heat shrink tubing on FIRST (I remembered this time, but I have forgotten in the past, and it is so annoying to have to undo a good joint just to put the tubing on):



Not too bad - one down, three to go:



All done:



Then to slide the heat shrink tubing over the joins and shrink it (weird stuff, I still can't get used to it):



Now instead of just having the cable sticking directly out the back of the case, a grommet is needed.  Why not reuse the one that was there before?  The 5cm or so of wires that remained slid quite easily out of it, but the plastic (actually felt more like rubber) insulation seemed to be glued into the IBM grommet - kind of expected as it is supposed to stop the cable from being pulled out, which would pull the wires out of the connector inside the keyboard.  Nevertheless, with a bit of encouragement - out it came:



The IBM cable was flattish, the new cable is round, so a little snip with a knife and some deft drilling of the inside of the grommet was required, after which it was a reasonable fit:



By the way I cannot recommend getting one of these strongly enough, either that or grow an extra pair of arms:



It fits, with the case top on it should hold it sufficiently firmly.  I am not one to pull keyboard cables wantonly:



Everything screwed in, time to put the case top back on:



Next up is to find an old computer with a PS/2 port and see if the Model M actually works.  As it is nearly lunch time, that might have to be a job for next weekend.
« Last Edit: Sat, 20 July 2013, 21:18:09 by rowdy »
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 03:30:00 »
Of course the question everyone is asking is: does it work?

The fact that you can read this post is a testimony to the fact that yes!  It works!!!

I have transferred what keycaps I can from the other Model M to this one, plugged it in to my old games machine, booted (three times - first time it hung during bootup, not a good sign, but it turned ot to be a loose video connection, second time was when I plugged the network cable in, third bootup is still operating).

I do miss the left Shift key - guess what?  I don't use the right Shift much, but hadn't realised it.  Now I have a keyboard without left Shift I realise how much I miss it.

So ... so far so good.  Now to find that keyboard test program, install it, and see what it thinks.

I have noticed that some of the keys in the middle row seem a bit "loose", whereas ones like W and E seem really tight, meaning that WE have more of a short tick sound, whereas much of the rest of the keyboard is more of a tock sound.  Perhaps this is a result of the rivets which have fallen off.

What do I think of it?  It feels really nice - like blues, a bit stiffer, with a more solid feel to it, and definitely more noise, especially from the space bar.  I'm makine more typing mistakes, but that is maybe partly due to the missing left Shift (so I am constantly shifting finger attention to the right side of the keyboard), and also due to the fact that the keyboard is balanced on the edge of the desk.

But the classic pearl/pebble look, the size and the sound is just so fantastic!!!

Thank you everyone who has offered assistance and encouragement in this thread and elsewhere.

There is more to go though.  There is the second Model M to go (which might just need an SDL/USB cable to get it going), plus a set or two of keycaps, plus maybe a bolt mod to one or both.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline strafe

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 24 July 2013, 21:16:31 »
Watching this thread with interest :D.  Have you ordered replacement keys yet?
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 24 July 2013, 22:54:34 »
Watching this thread with interest :D.  Have you ordered replacement keys yet?

Not yet.

The first one works (left Shift and Caps Lock are unknown).

The second one is missing a SDL cable, and I just ordered a SDL/USB cable.  It should arrive in a couple of weeks.

Then I can find out if the second Model M works, which will let me know how many keycap sets I need.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 05:32:20 »
Damnit, I just lost that whole post.  Stupid Chrome wouldn't post, as happens some times, and I thought I copied the text, but obviously not >:|

So ... today I got this SDL to USB cable from orihalcon:



Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to play with the first (call it the PS/2) Model M as it is connected to an old computer that I have to separately start up to use, as opposed to my Mac which is on all the time (and is USB only).

Now I have the SDL to USB cable, I can hopefully try the second (call it the USB) Model M on the Mac (maybe on the old computer first in case it short circuits something) and see if it works.

Then I will know if I need one or two sets of keycaps.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 08 August 2013, 05:29:44 »
So I powered on the old test PC this evening and let it warm up while I had dinner.

Then I tried AquaKeyTest on the PS/2 Model M - every key worked (Caps Lock and Left Shift are unknown as there are no keys on there, just bare springs).

Next I connected the new SDL to USB cable to the USB Model M and connected it.  Windows went through the new hardware setup, and ... it worked!

So I transferred the missing keycaps from the PS/2 Model M to the USB one, including the stems for Caps Lock and left Shift (without either of those keys present), and tried AquaKeyTest again - all worked!

So I connected the USB Model M to my Mac, and it went through its new keyboard routine.  Then I swapped Ctrl and Win around (not that there is a Win key, so no Option key), and it works!

Typing this on the Model M, connected to the Mac.  It is huge compared to the HHKB - need to rearrange the desk, but that might be a job for after the house move.

Also this one feels tighter than the other one - the PS/2 Model M seems a bit more rattly, whereas the keys on the USB Model M seem stiffer and more precise.  Perhaps more of the rivets are intact - I haven't opened this one up yet to see.

Typing on this is actually quite nice, although several times noisier than the Ducky with MX blues.  It is also a very satisfying feeling :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 18 August 2013, 21:16:03 »
It's not much of an update, but I have found the few odd key caps needed to complete the first Model M, plus I have some PS/2 to USB adaptors on the way (again - let's hope these ones don't stop off for an indefinite holiday on the way).

Someone also found a "broken" Model M on eBay in Australia which I might try to get to harvest the key caps, although knowing me I would try to fix that one too, then still need more key caps for the one I have.

Using the Model M with SDL to USb adaptor on the Mac and it hasn't missed a beat.  Only once or twice I have missed having an Option key (Alt is mapped as Command).
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Elrick

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 18 August 2013, 23:47:46 »
Someone also found a "broken" Model M on eBay in Australia which I might try to get to harvest the key caps, although knowing me I would try to fix that one too, then still need more key caps for the one I have.

That's the number one problem with collecting Model M's you always feel you can harvest the parts from one to fix the other then you decide to fix BOTH of them.  Been there, done that,  ............unfortunately.

They are like classic cars that are getting harder and harder to find and when you get an extra one, I couldn't rip it apart and start cannibalizing it for the other keyboard.  I was stuck with a few non working Model-M's.  Maybe one day I'll start fixing one to see how it works.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 19 August 2013, 09:30:35 »
That's the number one problem with collecting Model M's

In my opinion, the number one problem with collecting Model Ms is that there are certain crucial pieces that tend to be missing or broken, while you accumulate a surplus of the less desirable items.

Collecting cheaper terminal boards exacerbates that problem.
"It turns out that for a decade, whenever Trump wanted to get a loan, or make a deal, he would inflate the value of his real estate. For instance, suggesting that his 11,000-square foot penthouse was a 30,000-square foot penthouse.
And the attorney general of New York knew that Trump's property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties.
It was all part of a very sophisticated real estate practice known as “lying.”
- Jon Stewart 2024-03-28

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 28 August 2013, 03:59:41 »
I missed the Model M on eBay - even though I sniped it someone else bid slightly higher.  I did not want to bid more than it would cost me to get a set of keycaps from Unicomp, so I am ok with that.

What did arrive today was the Caps Lock, left Shift and space bar from flynn!  Thanks flynn - extremely well packaged, and no damage whatsoever :)









This has allowed me to complete the first of the Model M, which I have been using on my Mac for the last few weeks without a single problem (apart from not being able to wake the Mac from sleep by pressing a key, but it is simple to just click the mouse), and only occasionally missing the Option key.

Next up is to get a full set of keycaps from Unicomp to complete the other Model M, and then take one of them in to work.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 03 April 2015, 04:30:58 »
Necroing my own thread, because :p

So here I posted about receiving one of Cindy's used SSKs.

This one is used, as expected, but very dirty, which seems to be a common trait amongst others who received similar keyboards from the same batch.

It does include all keycaps, although about 5 are two piece, the rest are single piece.  Curiously it has an assortment of Ctrl and Alt keys on it, one piece and two piece, and different legends.  I no complain - all keycaps are there :)

Anyway this one needs a good clean.  and it was rattling slightly when I unpacked it.

I opened the case, and found this inside:

96131-0

A quick look at the barrel plate confirms dirt level 8:

96133-1

96135-2

A few loose rivets occupied the lower half of the case, and rubbing my hand across the metal plate liberated a few more from their place of rest;

96137-3

Keycap removal revealed the few two piece keycaps, but also a lot more dust and dirt, plus maybe a couple of small liquid spills:

96139-4

96141-5

Keycap cleaning was the first order of the day:

96143-6

96145-7

Soaked in warm water and three denture tablets (as above), then individually lightly scrubbed with an old toothbrush and rinsed in clean, cool water.  Then spread out on some old newspaper to dry.

96147-8

96149-9

96151-10

It seems a bolt mod will be inevitable at some stage, but I lack tools (specifically a slow speed drill and something to hold it steady).  I would prefer to practice my first bolt mod on something less expensive, such as the second of my original full size Model M keyboards.

But for now I aim to clean the barrel plate as best I can, put the keycaps back on, and just use it.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 04 April 2015, 01:47:39 »
Cleaning done!

The keycaps cleaned up nearly perfectly, as usual.

The case even cleanup very well, including most of the texta on the bottom gone!

Still not 100% perfectly clean, but about as good as it's going to get without fully disassembling and bolt modding it, which I didn't want to do just yet.

96250-0

96252-1

Unfortunately the Shift keys and Enter still stick when pushed down.  That definitely needs to be fixed before the keyboard can be used.

ALl keys are one piece except these:

96254-2

And an interesting assortment of legends on Ctrl and Alt:

96256-3

96258-4

All in all it came out looking pretty good, and the crack in the case doesn't seem to affect stability:

96260-5

96262-6

96264-7
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline infiniti

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 05 April 2015, 10:20:45 »
Nice work rowdy! :thumb:

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 06 April 2015, 03:16:31 »
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline DamnDan

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 13 April 2015, 08:24:51 »
Wow Rowdy that is magnificent work! It's good to see a person taking care of older keyboards :)

For the missing parts of case you should try the old japanese method of repair with gold :P




Would be kewl to see old japanese art applied to old IBM keyboard :P

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 13 April 2015, 15:18:28 »
These do tend to clean up very well!

Thanks :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 04:38:00 »
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.


:))

I have acquired, from fanpeople (thanks!), a Model M 122 terminal keyboard dated 01-Jun-1988.  It is minus the top half of most of the keycaps, but otherwise is complete and in good condition.  All keys click equally.

The ultimate aim is:
  • convert to ANSI
  • bolt mod (more or less required as part of the ANSI conversion)
  • install keycaps, preferably pearl and pebble
  • thoroughly clean
  • install some sort of USB adapter

Having seen Snowdog993's similar keyboard, lightly touched by Phorphorglow, that is the sort of thing I am aiming for.

Requirements:
  • time
  • money
  • keycaps
  • USB adapter
  • coloured underlay, preferably yellow

114350-0

114352-1
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline njbair

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 07:18:34 »
With the USB controller and underlay available from Phosphorglow, and caps available from Unicomp, the only part you have to do yourself is the bolt mod. I actually prefer the screw method instead of bolts. I have a drill press, which is infinitely easier than trying to drill straight holes by hand. If you can borrow some time on someone's drill press I would highly recommend it.

I found that a local fastener supplier was my best bet for screws. This is almost certainly going to be the case for you down under.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 07:18:49 »

Requirements:
  • time
  • money
  • keycaps
  • USB adapter
  • coloured underlay, preferably yellow


Time: 6+ hours first time, half that with experience

Money: $80+ = $30 base set caps + $20 extra caps + $20 Teensy + $10 hardware (mail order from China)

Keycaps: included above - a full regular Model M set is required, plus well over a dozen extra keys

USB: Soarer's Teensy is the easy reliable way, there are cheaper ways to go

underlay(?): if you mean the barrel plate, that is easy to paint.

I would stuff each chimney with paper from behind, so that I could paint the flat surfaces nice and heavy without risking gumming up the action of the stems.
"It turns out that for a decade, whenever Trump wanted to get a loan, or make a deal, he would inflate the value of his real estate. For instance, suggesting that his 11,000-square foot penthouse was a 30,000-square foot penthouse.
And the attorney general of New York knew that Trump's property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties.
It was all part of a very sophisticated real estate practice known as “lying.”
- Jon Stewart 2024-03-28

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 16:21:33 »
With the USB controller and underlay available from Phosphorglow, and caps available from Unicomp, the only part you have to do yourself is the bolt mod. I actually prefer the screw method instead of bolts. I have a drill press, which is infinitely easier than trying to drill straight holes by hand. If you can borrow some time on someone's drill press I would highly recommend it.

I found that a local fastener supplier was my best bet for screws. This is almost certainly going to be the case for you down under.

Someone here was looking at a mini drill press a while back.  Can't find the thread now - they were going to post a review of it if they bought it.  it was relatively cheap too.  Apart from that, I don't think I know anyone who has one.  I have a few other things that might benefit from a drill press over time, so purchasing a small one would not be out of the question (once funds are available).

Time: 6+ hours first time, half that with experience

Money: $80+ = $30 base set caps + $20 extra caps + $20 Teensy + $10 hardware (mail order from China)

Keycaps: included above - a full regular Model M set is required, plus well over a dozen extra keys

USB: Soarer's Teensy is the easy reliable way, there are cheaper ways to go

underlay(?): if you mean the barrel plate, that is easy to paint.

I would stuff each chimney with paper from behind, so that I could paint the flat surfaces nice and heavy without risking gumming up the action of the stems.

Thank you for that valuable feedback :)  Several of your threads are bookmarked for reference!

Money is US$, converted to Aussie dollars kinda sucks at the moment.

Unicomp sells blank 122 sets, but I wanted printed.  I'm not sure if they sell a full printed pearl and pebble set (plus the few extra keys required due to the ANSI mod).

Phosphorglow makes an underlay sheet that fits over the barrel plate.  Snowdog linked to it in the post I linked above.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 16:38:12 »

Unicomp sells blank 122 sets, but I wanted printed.  I'm not sure if they sell a full printed pearl and pebble set (plus the few extra keys required due to the ANSI mod).

Phosphorglow makes an underlay sheet that fits over the barrel plate. 


There are drill (press) stands into which you attach your existing hand drill which are less expensive, but not as sturdy or accurate, as a proper drill press.

Unicomp sells a complete printed Model M keycap set for $30, a fraction of the price of the pieces bought individually. To that you need to add another F1-F-10, and F-13-F24, plus 1 more for whatever you plan to have in the center arrow position. Be mindful of the alternating colors of the function key set, you can either match the upper row to the lower row, alternate with it, or have them all the same.

It did not occur to me that you could simply lay down a background sheet! That would be easy with a hole punch.
"It turns out that for a decade, whenever Trump wanted to get a loan, or make a deal, he would inflate the value of his real estate. For instance, suggesting that his 11,000-square foot penthouse was a 30,000-square foot penthouse.
And the attorney general of New York knew that Trump's property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties.
It was all part of a very sophisticated real estate practice known as “lying.”
- Jon Stewart 2024-03-28

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 16:44:42 »
There are drill (press) stands into which you attach your existing hand drill which are less expensive, but not as sturdy or accurate, as a proper drill press.

Unicomp sells a complete printed Model M keycap set for $30, a fraction of the price of the pieces bought individually. To that you need to add another F1-F-10, and F-13-F24, plus 1 more for whatever you plan to have in the center arrow position. Be mindful of the alternating colors of the function key set, you can either match the upper row to the lower row, alternate with it, or have them all the same.

It did not occur to me that you could simply lay down a background sheet! That would be easy with a hole punch.

A simple stand would probably suit me best as I have a drill already.  Alternatively I might look at getting a Dremel or similar.

As for keycaps, if I can get hold of a set of original M122 keycaps that would be perfect.  Actually I understand fanpeople bought this keyboard originally for the keycaps :))  He was kind enough to include the stems with the board, which has also prevented any spring damage during shipping.

Phosphorglow's sheets are pre-punched, but with an appropriate hole punch I guess you could make your own!
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:35:19 »
Alternatively I might look at getting a Dremel or similar.

As for keycaps, if I can get hold of a set of original M122 keycaps that would be perfect. 

A "pistol" shaped drill would be the wrong tool here. You can't hold it "right" because you tend to end up behind it.
I put on my strongest reading glasses (the big ones, for safety, too), hold the Dremel in both hands, and get in very close.

The 122-key terminal set will still have the ISO-style Enter, 1x Backslash, short Left Shift, and probably no 2x "+" on the numpad. And anything bigger than 2x will need a stabilizer insert, too.
"It turns out that for a decade, whenever Trump wanted to get a loan, or make a deal, he would inflate the value of his real estate. For instance, suggesting that his 11,000-square foot penthouse was a 30,000-square foot penthouse.
And the attorney general of New York knew that Trump's property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties.
It was all part of a very sophisticated real estate practice known as “lying.”
- Jon Stewart 2024-03-28

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 18:04:27 »
Fortunately I have a couple of spare inserts, as well as a couple of spare springs and flippers (just in case).
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 06 February 2017, 19:58:25 »
I have acquired a collection of Model M keycaps (thanks, again, fanpeople!), and spent an entertaining evening yesterday sorting them.

My other half would say differently, but I enjoyed myself.

I finally got around to opening the M122 too, and found that the M122 controller board has different ribbon cable connectors than a standard Model M, so I can't just swap PCBs.

I also discovered that at least half the rivets have fallen off :(

Having reviewed numerous bolt-modding tutorials (including one from fohat.digs), the only question I have is what bolts to use if purchasing them in Australia, as pretty much every link to suitable bolts is somewhere in the US, which is a bit awkward.

Has anyone found a good source of bolts for sale in Australia (or even eBay) suitable for bolt-modding a Model M?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline invariance

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 07 February 2017, 00:20:43 »
I quickly gave up and went to ebay.
Went for the screw mod method myself and purchased "100 Pcs Stainless Steel Hex Socket Knurled Cap Head Bolts Screws M2x6mm Black" from welcomebuy ($6.41 free post ~3wk wait) without running around is a bit hard to beat.
The only BS I
want to hear is
from a Model M:
PN:1391401
DOB: 04FEB87
      Wyse 85      Mtek K104
SMK Blue: Chicony KB-5181; HyperX Aqua: HyperX Alloy Origins *Yet-to-rebuild: A 69 key C. P. Clare Foam & Foil assy *Rubber: Digital LK46W-A2; uSoft Natural Pro RT9401, Natural Multimedia 1.0A RT9470, Natural Ergonomic 4000 KU-0460; "Avid" Sejin SLKR2233; "Diamond Touch" Mitsubishi 6511-PB

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 07 February 2017, 02:18:38 »
I quickly gave up and went to ebay.
Went for the screw mod method myself and purchased "100 Pcs Stainless Steel Hex Socket Knurled Cap Head Bolts Screws M2x6mm Black" from welcomebuy ($6.41 free post ~3wk wait) without running around is a bit hard to beat.

Bookmarked, thanks :)

Although I'm yet to be convinced of the benefits of screw-modding in contradistinction to bolt-modding.

These don't look very screw-like to my unpracticed eye, I was imagining something like self-tapping screws.  What size hole did you drill for them?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 07 February 2017, 03:58:45 »
Also YAY! I've got PF1 through PF24! :D

They'd probably be the most difficult to source separately, but they are all there.  Now I just have to find out which keys are supposed to be on the 10 to the left, the keys above the arrow cluster, and if there should be anything special on the numeric keypad.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline invariance

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 07 February 2017, 07:10:25 »
I quickly gave up and went to ebay.
Went for the screw mod method myself and purchased "100 Pcs Stainless Steel Hex Socket Knurled Cap Head Bolts Screws M2x6mm Black" from welcomebuy ($6.41 free post ~3wk wait) without running around is a bit hard to beat.

Bookmarked, thanks :)

Although I'm yet to be convinced of the benefits of screw-modding in contradistinction to bolt-modding.

These don't look very screw-like to my unpracticed eye, I was imagining something like self-tapping screws.  What size hole did you drill for them?
Just a different way of doing the same thing.  It appealed to me because I considered it to be more discrete and as they are replacing plastic pins, I don't believe there to be enough tension to warrant a screw and nut.  Either way it's more about what you feel happy doing.
I can't remember what drill bit I used but I remember starting with a 1mm as a pilot hole and moving up to a 1.2 or 1.5mm.
The only BS I
want to hear is
from a Model M:
PN:1391401
DOB: 04FEB87
      Wyse 85      Mtek K104
SMK Blue: Chicony KB-5181; HyperX Aqua: HyperX Alloy Origins *Yet-to-rebuild: A 69 key C. P. Clare Foam & Foil assy *Rubber: Digital LK46W-A2; uSoft Natural Pro RT9401, Natural Multimedia 1.0A RT9470, Natural Ergonomic 4000 KU-0460; "Avid" Sejin SLKR2233; "Diamond Touch" Mitsubishi 6511-PB

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 07 February 2017, 08:15:20 »
I used these cheapies from China. They got here in just under 3 weeks, presumably shipping to Oz would be faster but maybe not.

Some people talk about "poor quality" Chinese hardware, but, hell, you are replacing decades-old plastic with steel so there should be a large margin of error in there ....

I like using nuts and "bolts" (machine screws, of course) because I feel like I have a lot more control with the nuts. I have found that a 1/16" drill bit (living in the Empire measurements) works perfectly with M2 screws but a 1.5mm bit is probably OK (marginally smaller). The 1/16" hole is just slightly undersized and a straight machine screw will cut its way in beautifully and snugly. I usually press a small Philips head screwdriver to the head of the hole to flare it out just slightly to accept the beginning of the screw. Self-tappers in that size range are weird and lame.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251634690247?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=550538684398&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
"It turns out that for a decade, whenever Trump wanted to get a loan, or make a deal, he would inflate the value of his real estate. For instance, suggesting that his 11,000-square foot penthouse was a 30,000-square foot penthouse.
And the attorney general of New York knew that Trump's property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties.
It was all part of a very sophisticated real estate practice known as “lying.”
- Jon Stewart 2024-03-28

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 07 February 2017, 18:22:43 »
I used these cheapies from China. They got here in just under 3 weeks, presumably shipping to Oz would be faster but maybe not.

Some people talk about "poor quality" Chinese hardware, but, hell, you are replacing decades-old plastic with steel so there should be a large margin of error in there ....

I like using nuts and "bolts" (machine screws, of course) because I feel like I have a lot more control with the nuts. I have found that a 1/16" drill bit (living in the Empire measurements) works perfectly with M2 screws but a 1.5mm bit is probably OK (marginally smaller). The 1/16" hole is just slightly undersized and a straight machine screw will cut its way in beautifully and snugly. I usually press a small Philips head screwdriver to the head of the hole to flare it out just slightly to accept the beginning of the screw. Self-tappers in that size range are weird and lame.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251634690247?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=550538684398&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


More good ideas - thanks :)

Any idea how many bolts would be needed for an M122?

Most sellers, including this above one, seem to sell in packs of 50.

Also the time for them to arrive doesn't matter - based on the amount of free time I've had recently it will take me more than three weeks to disassemble the keyboard, clean it, and drill all the holes.

Edit: In the plate picture on the following page I counted around 70 black dots, which I equated to plastic rivets.  So a pack of 100 M2*8 bolts/nuts would be required?

http://www.justblair.co.uk/computers/224-restoring-an-ibm-model-m-1394324-terminal-keyboard.html
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 February 2017, 18:56:25 by rowdy »
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 07 February 2017, 18:57:24 »

Any idea how many bolts would be needed for an M122?

Most sellers, including this above one, seem to sell in packs of 50.

Also the time for them to arrive doesn't matter - based on the amount of free time I've had recently it will take me more than three weeks to disassemble the keyboard, clean it, and drill all the holes.

Somewhere in the neighborhood of 60, but 50 would easily be enough. Make sure that every general area is secure, particularly under Enter and Space bar, etc, but you can skip a few where they are close together (I am thinking that some of the center rows (longitudinally) are probably over-populated) if the perimeter is secure. On the other hand, another pack of those tiny things is not exactly going to break the bank!

I would also recommend a pack of chisel blades for your Xacto knife. Use one to shave off all the "mushroom heads" when you cut it apart, which will wreck that one. Then use a fresh one to make clean, level, flat-topped "mesa" tops on the protruding shafts. Chisel tips are nice to have around in general, anyway.

Cleaning is easy. This and the first task will not take over half an hour each. There is seldom any rust but sanding and painting takes time since paint has to cure.

Drilling the holes also does not take much actual time, but is nerve-wracking because you have to be careful and get it right. Don't do it at night after a drink, you need steady hands and fresh eyes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Excel-Blade-17-Small-Chisel-3-8-5pk-Same-as-X-Acto-217-20017-/162351145374?hash=item25cce1e19e:g:818AAOSw44BYcqUM
"It turns out that for a decade, whenever Trump wanted to get a loan, or make a deal, he would inflate the value of his real estate. For instance, suggesting that his 11,000-square foot penthouse was a 30,000-square foot penthouse.
And the attorney general of New York knew that Trump's property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties.
It was all part of a very sophisticated real estate practice known as “lying.”
- Jon Stewart 2024-03-28

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 08 February 2017, 19:48:37 »
It was too f*** off hot last night (35C outside, 31C inside) to do much except sort a bit more through the keycaps.

I've completed the main section (alphas, numerics, modifiers) except space.  I have a space bar but missing a stabiliser bar.  I might have a stabiliser bar in a box somewhere - need to dig it out when the weather cools down a bit.

The numpad is mostly complete, except what keys to put where the /*- keys would normally go.  Most pics I've seen of an M122 have a "space" key on the top right of the numpad, but I don't have one of those keycaps.  I guess I can customise the codes sent by teh keys and just put standard numpad keycaps on there.

The 10 keys to the left - no idea.  Every M122 I've seen has something different on there.  Hoping that they can be mapped in a Teensy (for example), what kinds of things are people using these for?  Probably Esc on the top left - there is no Esc in the usual position on this keyboard.

Also what do people use the key in the middle of the arrow cluster for?  I'm guessing it was "home" or something on a terminal, but on a PC/Mac?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 08 February 2017, 20:15:41 »
I use the left function keys more than the top ones, so I keep both sets. Except for the bottom 2 on the left: I re-map F9 to F11 because that is one that I actually use, and re-map F10 to Windows.

I build the right end in the standard ANSI way except that I replace NumLock (which is always on from BIOS, of course) with Escape (where it should  have been anyway).

The top-most row has F13 as another Escape, F14 as calculator, F15 as NumLock (in case it ever got turned on by accident), F16-F19 are still waiting, F20 is Print Screen, and F21-F24 are my media keys.

I use the center arrow as another down arrow, so that muscle memory for the inverted-T will stay intact.
"It turns out that for a decade, whenever Trump wanted to get a loan, or make a deal, he would inflate the value of his real estate. For instance, suggesting that his 11,000-square foot penthouse was a 30,000-square foot penthouse.
And the attorney general of New York knew that Trump's property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties.
It was all part of a very sophisticated real estate practice known as “lying.”
- Jon Stewart 2024-03-28

Offline rowdy

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Re: Rowdy's Model M refurbishment
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 08 February 2017, 23:17:03 »
I'll probably end up primarily using this on a Mac, so some functions will be a little different.

Overall I'll likely go for compatibility with a standard Model M 101 layout.

I grew up on keyboards without function keys, seem to have completely skipped the XT/AT keyboards with the 10 function keys on the left, and then started using keyboards with the 12 function keys across the top, so I'm far more used to those.

That's an excellent idea about the arrow cluster - I'd noticed that if differed in shape to the conventional arrow cluster (diamond vs. inverted T).
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ