Antivax ?

[tp4tissue]

I've heard very mixed stories of them, although I've never tried it myself. From what I understand you just kind of sit or lie on a couch and think you're another form of matter or energy, basically.

chyros, hangs out with all the kewl people.

Also,  they're doing special chewing-GUM that traps covid.. Your thoughts ?

[chyros]

I've heard very mixed stories of them, although I've never tried it myself. From what I understand you just kind of sit or lie on a couch and think you're another form of matter or energy, basically.

chyros, hangs out with all the kewl people.

Not really, but I live in the Netherlands . Not as much drug stigma here.

Also,  they're doing special chewing-GUM that traps covid.. Your thoughts ? [/size][/color]

Hadn't heard of it yet, so I looked it up. Not sure how tasty it'd be but it contains spike proteins that the virus particles attack, so the idea behind it is sound. It'd almost certainly make your drool less viral, but not sure if it would work with sneeze/cough particles as well because I don't know if you have those in the gum zone before the sneeze/cough itself.

Because it's just a protein it'd probably easier to make than complicated actual medication though, you could make it fairly widely available. But it would probably not protect yourself significantly, it'd only stop transmission from you to others. In which case you're supposed to stay at home anyway, so I'm not sure how much value it would add, really.

[Leslieann]

Per University of Florida,

New research this week finds that people hospitalized with severe covid-19 often pay a heavy price afterward. The study concluded that these survivors were more than twice as likely to die in the subsequent 12 months compared to people who had tested negative for the virus. This relatively increased risk of death was even higher for people under the age 65. While there remains much research to be done, studies thus far have made it clear that many covid-19 survivors can experience lingering symptoms even after the infection itself has cleared up. And those who are hospitalized are all the more vulnerable to these aftereffects. Severe covid often seriously damages the lungs and other organs, while life-saving interventions like steroids, ventilators, and life support devices like ECMO can take a toll on the body as well.

https://gizmodo.com/many-severe-covid-19-survivors-go-on-to-die-within-a-ye-1848144418

Anyone going to I.C.U. has a higher risk of death in the following 12 months, your body took a beating but it's way worse for Covid.

[tp4tissue]

Anyone going to I.C.U. has a higher risk of death in the following 12 months, your body took a beating but it's way worse for Covid.

/Consequences.. !!

[tp4tissue]

I'm not seeing a pattern here,   are You ??

The little tick marks are crosses,  clearly antichrist.

[chyros]

I'm not seeing a pattern here,   are You ??

The little tick marks are crosses,  clearly antichrist.

(Attachment Link)

Pattern seems really clear to me. Vacc shows nonlinearny inverse proportional trend with Trump %, high death count is very underrepresented with low Trump % compared to high Trump %. Median deaths per 100k vor high Trump voting counties seems clearly way higher.

That's not to say there are other factors that influence the trend, of course. Trump voters have demographic characteristics that can be the reason for this trend that have nothing to do with Trump.

[tp4tissue]

Pattern seems really clear to me. Vacc shows nonlinearny inverse proportional trend with Trump %, high death count is very underrepresented with low Trump % compared to high Trump %. Median deaths per 100k vor high Trump voting counties seems clearly way higher.

That's not to say there are other factors that influence the trend, of course. Trump voters have demographic characteristics that can be the reason for this trend that have nothing to do with Trump.

We can look at this like Processing power.  m0ar cpu = slightly m0ar right answer, making a dramatic difference @ epidemiological scales.

[fohat.digs]

Trump voters have demographic characteristics

One of the most significant being education (or rather, lack of).

I suspect that the proportion of people who sincerely believe that vaccines don't work and/or are actually harmful is quite small.

In the US, the great majority of people who refuse vaccination probably do so as a "protest" against something something or to somehow demonstrate or reinforce their assertion of some point such as "vaccinations are probably effective but a person 'must' have the opportunity to 'choose' for himself" ....

[noisyturtle]

This is just life for now, and the foreseeable future. We have to learn to live with COVID for the next few years, it is not going away anytime soon.

When it began I truly believed it would be over in less than 6 months, but that was uneducated and narrow. This is a randomized population cull and it won't stop until we are in the black again.

[tp4tissue]

Missouri gon'n'dun it now...   rural health departments suspending all covid restrictions/ labor following court order to revoke authority.

https://news.yahoo.com/local-health-departments-missouri-halt-171028320.html

[pixelpusher]

That new pill that Pfizer is saying is 90% effective against hospitalization, will it work against future variants?  I seem to rmember reading that it worked differently and would essentially work against any variant.  Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

[fohat.digs]

It appears to have a broader effectiveness, but, of course, only time will tell.

[tp4tissue]

That new pill that Pfizer is saying is 90% effective against hospitalization, will it work against future variants?  I seem to rmember reading that it worked differently and would essentially work against any variant.  Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Well it's expensive, and only works if you catch it early,   which is very unlikely because who ponies up for an expensive regiment when it might just be a cold..

So, it'll probably make very little difference to antivaxxers.

[Leslieann]

WTF..
Some family friends were going to visit their friends and decided to carpool with another couple, other couple gets in the car and immediately start hacking, coughing and sneezing.
Friend - "Good thing you're vaxx'd"
"No, we aren't"
"You at least got tested right?"
"No"

While the family friends are vaxx'd the husband has a weakened immune system due to a prior cancer fight and all 4 were going to visit another person who only just got out of cancer treatment.

[fohat.digs]

If only

[tp4tissue]

So,   there's a _massive_ uptick in covid being reported, and everyone is "surprised ?"

You know, right after thanksgiving travel/ congregation ?,  the thing Xpurts told everyone not to do, but they did anyway ?

Not to mention NYears gatherings coming up.

[tp4tissue]

Some mixed-messages on omicron lately,   it's mild, it's deadly...

Spreading rapidly though.. that's already clear..

[Leslieann]

The numbers coming out of New York and New Jersey show that Delta is 10x more deadly than Omicron but Omicron had 10x the number of breakthrough cases (infected fully vaxxed) with only about 1in100,000 fully vaxxed having to be hospitalized, the rest had mild symptoms (bad cold).

We only just had our first death from Omicron and I would bet that person wasn't vaxx'd at all and probably had other health issues.

Edit:
Keep in mind that the 100k number is for vaxx'd, unvaxxed are what will (as usual) over-run hospitals.
And yes, more and more vaxx'd are winding up in the hospital, the more vaxx'd you have the more breakthroughs, that's how it's supposed to happen as vaccination numbers  go up. It doesn't prove they don't work, it's just a reflection how many are getting vaccinated and how ratios/percentages/per capita work.

[tp4tissue]

The thing most worrying thing about "Covid"  is that it is still a relatively "SMALL" wrench in our "BIG" ENGINE.


Then comes CLIMATE CHANGE,  it's gonna Hose us. Grind to a halt, Dark Ages kinda deal.     Assuming futher mismanagement of radioactivity which _is terrible_ even in the Best of times,  Pig-Poo-Thunderdome here we come.

[Crabby]

Some mixed-messages on omicron lately,   it's mild, it's deadly...

Spreading rapidly though.. that's already clear..

Seems from the preliminary south africa data it's far more mild, especially with existing immunity.

Presenting symptoms have for sure changed (probably for the better). Headache, fatigue and sneezing being far more prevalent.

[suicidal_orange]

Presenting symptoms have for sure changed (probably for the better). Headache, fatigue and sneezing being far more prevalent.

Personally I preferred the old version (assuming what I have now is Omicron - too many people getting tests means 58 of my 24-48 hours before notification have now passed but not allowed to chase it for another couple of days)

[tp4tissue]

LOL,  antivaxxers in disarray.

Not... that.. they were all there to begin with.

[tp4tissue]

Ahh... p00

Omicron extensively but incompletely escapes Pfizer BNT162b2 neutralization. A new study adds more evidence that the omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, can evade the immune protection conferred by vaccines and natural infection.

[pixelpusher]

Ahh... p00

Omicron extensively but incompletely escapes Pfizer BNT162b2 neutralization. A new study adds more evidence that the omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, can evade the immune protection conferred by vaccines and natural infection.

I thought they already said this a few weeks ago.  Won't protect against infection, but protects against severe sickness when you get it. Isn't that the current plan?

[noisyturtle]

Got my booster shot Monday, and Tuesday I felt slightly drunk all day. Like I was constantly 2 shots deep into a bottle of whiskey all day long, it was weird.

Really wanted the Moderna booster since reports say it produces almost 2x the amount of antibodies, but wound up getting Pfizer cause that's all they had.

[Leslieann]

Ahh... p00

Omicron extensively but incompletely escapes Pfizer BNT162b2 neutralization. A new study adds more evidence that the omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, can evade the immune protection conferred by vaccines and natural infection.

I thought they already said this a few weeks ago.  Won't protect against infection, but protects against severe sickness when you get it. Isn't that the current plan?

Omicron is 70% less likely than delta to require hospitalization and being vaxxed in any way is going to make it even less likely.
So it still helps.

Any vax taken before (and to an extent after) also helps with Covid's lingering after effects which can drag on for years.

[suicidal_orange]

I wonder how many rounds of progressively worse symptom-ed doses scientists expect people to endure as I'm yet to speak to anyone who's had a booster without significant weirdness in one of many ways.

[Leslieann]

I wonder how many rounds of progressively worse symptom-ed doses scientists expect people to endure as I'm yet to speak to anyone who's had a booster without significant weirdness in one of many ways.

If you think what they experienced is odd, the real thing would have been even worse for them.

[tp4tissue]

/headscratch..

you know, at _this_ point, the degree of separation must be quite small, how is it that they still haven't caught on.  They must know many people who have died or are dying.

[fohat.digs]

Did you hear about the anti-vax mob who took over a Burger King in NYC to protest something something?

[noisyturtle]

I really want to see the reaction of antivaxxers if the US government made getting vaxxed a legal requirement. Like, you cannot hold any public job, or enter any retail store without being vaxxed. Start sending flyers and mailers to everyone who hasn't gotten one yet... constantly, every week, make a budget for phone calls and junk mail to annoy them, have an annual non-vaxx tax (or conversely a rebate for those who got one.) Get creative with the shaming, you can't FORCE anyone, but you can sure make their life annoying and miserable.

[fohat.digs]

if the US government made getting vaxxed a legal requirement.

Get creative with the shaming

make their life annoying and miserable.

None of the above.

We are not facing a tiny band of malcontents. Nearly a third of the US population has fallen for the ludicrous squawkings of the hard right propaganda machine.

Somehow, they have allowed themselves to be convinced that they are a "ragtag militia" making a valiant last stand against an oppressive Empire. Therefore any assault on their position only reinforces the message that they have legitimate cause for grievance.

I understand this. I was raised in the South in the 1950s-1960s, and I was consistently taught in school that the Civil War was about noble and genteel people fighting for the "Lost Cause" of their precious "states' rights" and I bought into it until I started awakening into an adult intelligence. Even so, it would be another couple of decades before I started understanding just how cynical and insidious that indoctrination really was.

Until they themselves become ashamed of the Quixote-esque meaninglessness of their behavior, there will be no turning them "from the outside" ....

[tp4tissue]

Headsup guys,  the Omicron in new cases is 23% not 73%,   Delta is still the #1 going around AND it's still in max kill mode week 18th.

Omicron count is going up steadily though. <it's suppose to be mild>  but this is not a certainty at this point.

Even North East hospitals(higher vac rate) are getting swamped right now.  This is serious.

[Leslieann]

None of the above.

Until they themselves become ashamed of the Quixote-esque meaninglessness of their behavior, there will be no turning them "from the outside" ....

This.
This was why the CDC changed incubation to 5 days, it's them basically throwing their hands up in defeat. Mandate a mask, they fight it. Mandate vaxx they fight it. Make it all optional they lie about it. Short of hauling them in and vaxxing them by force they've done all they can to control it and at this point all they can do is hope the hospitals can bear the brunt of it.  It's going to be a rough winter.

As they say, you can't fix stupid.



Fam update...
My anti-vax brother, the one who's wife and in-laws only just got out of I.C.U and nearly died a month ago yet still refused to get vaxxed, he just tested positive, probably omicron. If that doesn't kill him, his wife might. The kicker, he's been working a hospital emergency room for the 2 days it took to test and get the results back, he thought he had a head cold so he kept right on working. And we wonder why the CDC gave up.

[tp4tissue]

Covid can fix stupid..


It may be important to remain empathetic though,   they're not fundamentally bad people, even though they are poorly educated and gravely mis-informed.

As I've said from the beginning this is NO DIFFERENT than someone who's born into a Poor-household.

[suicidal_orange]

My anti-vax brother, the one who's wife and in-laws only just got out of I.C.U and nearly died a month ago yet still refused to get vaxxed, he just tested positive, probably omicron. If that doesn't kill him, his wife might. The kicker, he's been working a hospital emergency room for the 2 days it took to test and get the results back, he thought he had a head cold so he kept right on working.

Even if the state (or whatever) doesn't insist on vax surely he'll get fired for working with symptoms?  As I understand America anyone who visited that ER and tested positive since will be suing the hospital, assuming they work out that's where it came from.

[Leslieann]

Covid can fix stupid..


It may be important to remain empathetic though,   they're not fundamentally bad people, even though they are poorly educated and gravely mis-informed.

As I've said from the beginning this is NO DIFFERENT than someone who's born into a Poor-household.

No, he's just a jerk*.
He enjoys gaslighting people and feeling superior.

*Forum safe language.

[Leslieann]

Even if the state (or whatever) doesn't insist on vax surely he'll get fired for working with symptoms?  As I understand America anyone who visited that ER and tested positive since will be suing the hospital, assuming they work out that's where it came from.

In 2005 we passed  the PREP ACT (Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act), which shields companies against this for the most part, we knew something like this was coming, hence getting the vaxx so quickly. Also more than 20 states have passed laws specifically granting businesses immunity from Covid lawsuits.

Even if you get around all of that you would have to prove where, when and who you caught it from, between the incubation period and LOOOONG emergency room waits full of other people with Covid you'd never get be able to prove it was from that. Most people are there for Covid anyhow, can't catch what you already have.

[suicidal_orange]

Most people are there for Covid anyhow, can't catch what you already have.

I went to the ER to get my finger stuck back together a couple of weeks ago and there was plenty of blood and bruises and even a suicidal person (is that really ER worthy?!) but no covid, it's hard to imagine just how bad you have it over there.  Suppose I shouldn't be surprised that the rich have insulated themselves from the problem though, and of course your hospitals are businesses which is different from here.

[tp4tissue]

These reported case rates recently..  Some pretty crazy numbers,

probably a million reasons, antivaxr holidayn' but DAmNnn...

/anyone else nervous?

/might as well give up and pick up drinking ?

[Leslieann]

probably a million reasons, antivaxr holidayn' but DAmNnn...

Peak will be Feb. with an estimated 10k dead per day.

We haven't seen nothin' yet.


And this is IF the nurses don't up and walk out before then, and I wouldn't blame them.

[tp4tissue]

an estimated 10k dead per day.

[chyros]

Covid can fix stupid..


It may be important to remain empathetic though,   they're not fundamentally bad people, even though they are poorly educated and gravely mis-informed.

As I've said from the beginning this is NO DIFFERENT than someone who's born into a Poor-household.

I suspect in time Omikron will drive Delta away and it will become the dominant strain. It's a more successful strain because it's more contagious, but less virulent, which is the hallmark of a successful disease. It's not in the virus' interest to kill you, after all.

Because the two strains are in competition, the Omikron variant should push the Delta variant away at some point, I reckon. This is likely to be a good thing, because this strain is much less likely to put you in hospital. It's at this stage that Covid should eventually (after enough exposures) become "just another flu variant" as they had originally predicted.

[tp4tissue]

Ems tech quoting Event Horizon,  Don't know how to feel about that:

Him quoting: "Hell is just a word. The reality is, much, much worse."

He's talking about the current patient load, the likelihood of complete medical collapse in the next few month, and omicr0n.

[chyros]

Ems tech quoting Event Horizon,  Don't know how to feel about that:

Him quoting: "Hell is just a word. The reality is, much, much worse."

He's talking about the current patient load, the likelihood of complete medical collapse in the next few month, and omicr0n.

Patient load is easy to solve. Just toss all antivaxxers out of all the hospitals. Two birds with one stone .

[tp4tissue]

Patient load is easy to solve. Just toss all antivaxxers out of all the hospitals. Two birds with one stone .

I can't seem to find the stats on how many antivaxxers they're actually able to save.

If it's a very low number,  unethical yes, but hrrrmm...

[chyros]

Patient load is easy to solve. Just toss all antivaxxers out of all the hospitals. Two birds with one stone .

I can't seem to find the stats on how many antivaxxers they're actually able to save.

If it's a very low number,  unethical yes, but hrrrmm...

Unethical is easy to solve. Institute a mandatory visit to a nearby location where you have to either get vaccinated on the spot, or sign a binding waiver that you'll not go to a hospital if you get sick from Covid. Won't help clear beds immediately, but should achieve similar results after 1-2 weeks.

[tp4tissue]

Unethical is easy to solve. Institute a mandatory visit to a nearby location where you have to either get vaccinated on the spot, or sign a binding waiver that you'll not go to a hospital if you get sick from Covid. Won't help clear beds immediately, but should achieve similar results after 1-2 weeks.

I don't think this would be legal.  The hospital is not allowed to not treat a dying person.

Problem is how quickly they go from sniffles to dying with Covid.

[tp4tissue]

/Interesting...

....the Omicron variant... is  "extraordinarily contagious"...."This is a hyper-contagious virus."  even a quick, transient encounter can lead to an infection, including if someone's mask is loose, or a person quickly pulls their mask down, or an individual enters an elevator in which someone else has just coughed....



So......  what now ??

...During the week of Dec. 22-28, an average of 378 children 17 and under were admitted per day to hospitals with the coronavirus, a 66% increase from the week before, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Thursday.

The previous high over the course of the pandemic was in early September, when child hospitalizations averaged 342 per day, the CDC said....

They're talking about closing skools again, which means...... ?

[pixelpusher]

I'm seeing something similar here to what they are reporting in San Francisco.  It's been nearly two weeks since Omicron has hit my area.  For a week we had higher numbers than I'd ever seen since the start of the pandemic.  Then for the past week we've had over 3 times the highest number of cases (every day at least 3 times that of what I've ever seen).  But the hospitals are at around 6% Covid patients.  This new variant simply isn't putting people in the hospital.  You have to admit, that's damn good news for how contagious it is.  The problem is the sheer number of people contracting the virus.  There's absolutely going to be a shortage of staff in every possible working space, including hospitals.  Let's hope the 5 day quarantine thing works out for the best.