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geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: leeku on Mon, 04 March 2013, 03:57:30
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Hi this is my first post on GH. :)
This is my own ergonomic keyboards. Yes, it resembles Ergodox :(
Actually these are two of half-size keyboard but this works just as one single keyboards perfectly thanks to Logitech's Unifying tech.
It can pair 6 of devices at once.
Here is the spec.
Logitech k230 controller x 2
Vintage Black switch
Layered Aluminium housing
Cooper Plate
Leather palm rest
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
=================== More details ===================
Sliced anonymous PCB
[attachimg=4]
Soldering switches
[attachimg=5]
Do some dirty wire job :(
[attachimg=6]
Here comes the K230's controller and battery
- It lasts 3 years according to Logitech, I guess it last more than 1.5 years at least.
[attachimg=7]
Rare housing
[attachimg=8]
There are three holes for Bumpon
- It makes three different angle of (Top\Bottom, Left\Right, Top-Center\Bottom-Side)
[attachimg=9]
Like this.
[attachimg=10]
In cost point of view
Alu housing and cooper plate : 180$ (I did alone and it make the price incredibly high :( )
maybe 5~60$ If I did with acrylic plastic
PCB : 0$
Controller : 0.9$ x 2 (This is the market price of K230 keyboards)
Switch : 50$ approximately
Key caps : 40$ approximately
Leather : 2$
Hardness
Yes wire-ing was hard as you can see the hell. But others were piece of cake.
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very nice!
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this is honestly really good. did you design and build it yourself?
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Pretty awesome! (Only if it didn't have staggered layout... *rumble-rumble*)
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this is honestly really good. did you design and build it yourself?
This is my #1 idea
http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/5597529
#2 idea
http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/5601388
#3 my friend drawed for me
http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/5632005
#4 made it
http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/5920748
#5 cut anonymous PCB and fully wired just like this
http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/4883590
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Thanks for sharing. I can see the appeal of keeping the staggered layout as well as all the modifiers similar to that of a normal keyboard. I can imagine it doesn't take much effort to dive in and use the keyboard straight away. The fact that its totally wireless is pretty awesome.
But I do think from an ergonomic perspective, the layout isn't optimized. Modifiers still require the use of pinkies, and that thumb cluster seems a little awkward to use, especially the middle button. It seems to places more strain on the thumb than a normal keyboard does.
Keeping the modifiers at the same positions is good and bad at the same time. Good because the user doesn't need time to adjust to a new layout, but bad because it doesn't alleviate strain from the pinkies.
How does it fare in terms of actual usage?
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remember staggered servers absolutely zero purpose other than carrying around the legacy of a type writer and how they had to have keys staggered so those pin strikes wouldn't collide with one another, it takes like like 3 days to get yourself out of muscle memory for staggered, unless you have REALLY bad touch typing skills.
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yes, this is split wireless keyboards rather than optimal ergonomic.
Here is why,
#1 wanna use anonymous PCB simply. Re-arrange layout needs lots of effort.
#2 wanna use normal keyboards altanately.
- this is main reason :)
- optimized ergo layout may chang a lot fot typing memory.
Pros.
#Fits anybody's should and comfortable thanks to spliting and wireless design.
#This has angle like cherry 5000 series. Which means center-upper side is high and left/right-bottom corner is lower.
It makes wrist comfortable as well.
Con.
#As Lanx and Larken commented, Pinkie fills oddity cause it has "V" shape consiquently.
Keys for pinkie are slightly far from nutral position.
For thumb composition, these keys are rarely used except space bar. Spacebar is on perfect position so it keeps wrist angle nutral. Others? I don'care it is just cosmetic reason. :D
As you can see on liked page, thum composition uses PCBs on number pad of any key cherry keyboards.
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Very nice.
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Very impressive! But honestly, a straight-column layout doesn't take much getting used to... it's like a day or two, and then you can go back and forth. It's not like going to Dvorak which takes weeks/months.
Anyway, leeku, could you post any photos that show the keyboard components, especially the PCBs and plates ?
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Very impressive! But honestly, a straight-column layout doesn't take much getting used to... it's like a day or two, and then you can go back and forth. It's not like going to Dvorak which takes weeks/months.
Anyway, leeku, could you post any photos that show the keyboard components, especially the PCBs and plates ?
I want to, sorry but I did not take a photo of it. The PCB is from anonymous cherry keyboards and cut as the plate's shape then fully wired.
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About how long did it take to make this? And about how much was the total cost? Would you consider making another?
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Now THAT'S a first post. That looks so awesome. I think the integrated wrist pads look a lot like the Microsoft 4K Ergo (not a bad thing).
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This is one of the best thing I've seen here in a while. It looks like really good craftsmanship!
I've been in the market for so long for a "normal" layout, mechanical, split keyboard. So long that I've been thinking pretty hard about chopping in half a cmstorm quickfire keyboard (one of the best keyboard for the money and perfect for experimentation)
(By "normal" I mean a not-too-ergo layout. I like the idea of staying muscle-memory compatible with my laptop keyboard)
I also like the idea of the center cluster, or extra index accessible keys in the middle but doubled with "regular layout" keys (yes two sets of tab, shift, ctrl, alt)
That way the keyboard can be pretty ergo without imposing its views on you ..
I would love some details about your build experience!
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leeku please take a few minutes to open up your keyboard and take some more photos of the inside !
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This is one of the best thing I've seen here in a while. It looks like really good craftsmanship!
I've been in the market for so long for a "normal" layout, mechanical, split keyboard. So long that I've been thinking pretty hard about chopping in half a cmstorm quickfire keyboard (one of the best keyboard for the money and perfect for experimentation)
(By "normal" I mean a not-too-ergo layout. I like the idea of staying muscle-memory compatible with my laptop keyboard)
I also like the idea of the center cluster, or extra index accessible keys in the middle but doubled with "regular layout" keys (yes two sets of tab, shift, ctrl, alt)
That way the keyboard can be pretty ergo without imposing its views on you ..
I would love some details about your build experience!
Yes, exactly, that is the reason I thought.
Very glad to hear from you. :)
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for your next version 2 (cuz you're never satisfied), just copy the kinesis keyboard...
i say this with no amount of bias, it just works well.
main thing i would work on is
1. matrix layout
2. move more buttons to thumb cluster
if you have pinkie issues like i did i rewired shift to the thumb cluster in the kinesis
my pinkies loved me.
oh and trust me, i know how hard it is to make a matrix layout, i toiled over, cutting strips of cherry browns on pcb, or just drilling new holes into the pcb... neither was optimal, in the end i went with drilling out holes, but OMG if you're 1/2mm off, you're so screw... and one mistake propagates to the other key and cluster... ugh, no wonder these ppl get it pre drilled by pro's.
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Work of art.
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reckon that controller would work for an ibm m15, id love to either go for detachable cables or ditch them all together.
nice work btw
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This is awesome! Thanks for sharing.
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Now I thought that this board was an EDox. Very cool!
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Really cool.
I'm using a TE and my only complains with it is that the angle between hands is not enough and I would love to take the left and right appart.
I also miss a few keys under my thumbs.
Keep up the good work.
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Only now I noticed you put internal pictures on your OP, thanks, it looks awesome!
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What a way to enter Geekhack with a BANG!
Excellent work, I'm guessing you have a 'version 2' in the back of your mind...
I have a selfish request:
Maybe you could take a couple 'creative' pics of the keyboard? It's very photogenic and would make a badass wallpaper. If you had some fun with a few pics I bet a couple could look very exciting!
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reckon that controller would work for an ibm m15, id love to either go for detachable cables or ditch them all together.
nice work btw
anyone?
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reckon that controller would work for an ibm m15, id love to either go for detachable cables or ditch them all together.
I very much doubt that the matrix would be the same. I think there is a project someone else is doing with a custom controller and a bluetooth module - that would be your best bet, if you can at all fit it inside the keyboard.
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Awesome work.
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Very nice craftsmanship leeku. Thank you for showing us how to make your keyboard.
I have been looking for a keyboard like this. I like the design and want to build one.
I appreciate it if someone could answer these build questions:
1) What is the advantage of using the PCB compared to using just a mount plate and soldering wires directly to the switches?
2) What is the advantage of a making the mount plate out of Cooper?
3) Can you hit all the thumb keys individually without moving your hand backward and forward?
Thank you.
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Very nice craftsmanship leeku. Thank you for showing us how to make your keyboard.
I have been looking for a keyboard like this. I like the design and want to build one.
I appreciate it if someone could answer these build questions:
1) What is the advantage of using the PCB compared to using just a mount plate and soldering wires directly to the switches?
2) What is the advantage of a making the mount plate out of Cooper?
3) Can you hit all the thumb keys individually without moving your hand backward and forward?
Thank you.
1. It makes soldering wire easier, in my case at least. And it is risky to pull out the keycaps without PCB. The wire inside might be cut off.
2. No. It is just a sort of taste. It weights more that Aluminium though.
3. No. Only space bar is reachable at neutral hands, but others are not comfort actually. :(
As I mentioned above. This is a wireless split keyboards rather than real ergonomic keyboards.
I compromised at this point because of my other classic keyboards.
ps. I have a plan to build a PCB which has matrix pattern for K230 controller inside.
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Thank you Leeku. The copper and black leather do make the key board look nice.