Author Topic: The Future of Marijuana  (Read 4139 times)

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The Future of Marijuana
« on: Tue, 16 August 2022, 17:26:45 »
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If we really think about it,  in the current political context,  Legalizing marijuana may become a Necessity,  America is probably going to need a large amount of soldiers,   education dropout (graph.table.v) ensures that outcome. It makes sense that the Democrats are fighting hard for this, and their heavy investments into marijuana production..

In the long run, it may not math out, because 'murica's population production rate has collapsed, so we're headed towards surrendering military hegemony like Great Britain did when their population refused to pump out kids for The State.

In theory, we can get all our soldiering from poorer European countries, for example right now, Vkra1ne, but this is less of a sure thing, because they can cancel anytime. It's not like Atnt 2 year contracts, it's more like Tmobile..


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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 16 August 2022, 17:30:40 »
If we really think about it,  in the current political context,  Legalizing marijuana may become a Necessity,  America is probably going to need a large amount of soldiers,   education dropout ensures that outcome. It makes sense that the Democrats are fighting hard for this, and their heavy investments into its production..

In the long run, it may not math out, because 'murica's population production rate has collapsed, so we're headed towards surrendering military hegemony like Great Britain did when their population refused to pump out kids for The State.

In theory, we can get all our soldiering from poorer European countries, for example right now, Ukraine, but this is less of a sure thing, because they can cancel anytime. It's not like Atnt 2 year contracts, it's more like Tmobile..


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Literally everyone I know that smokes is a college grad doing very well with a family and a good job. Everyone I know working some ****ty retail position, single, and broke drinks heavily but doesn't smoke weed at all.
Read into that as you may.

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 16 August 2022, 17:32:28 »
Literally everyone I know that smokes is a college grad doing very well with a family and a good job. Everyone I know working some ****ty retail position, single, and broke drinks heavily but doesn't smoke weed at all.
Read into that as you may.

NT,  you're an educated guy, you should know that personal experience is not a good barometer for what is happening out at the large scale.   It matters "WHEN" they started,   and in this case, accelerating production with legalization will push down the age group. 

We know that most types of hyper_dopaminergic substances when used during adolescence impedes general academic performance which then increases the potential to produce soldiers.

America might require this very process.


(hina approaches this segregation differently,   What they have is a Tri_gate educational system.

They have extremely difficult Middleschool, Highschool, and College examinations.

Students are sorted 3 times, the gates/barriers are very_High, these tests are Stupid hard for kids of those respective ages.

At the end of sorting, it ensures that ~50% of students enter trade_schools, then they either become soldiers, or factory workers.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 16 August 2022, 17:59:34 »
To be fair, almost all of those who one would deem to be very successful in life that also smoke weed only started doing so in the last few years since legalization in this state, and the ever-increasing abundance of storefronts in every town. In WA, much like it was in CO before legalization, a large percentage smokes at least occasionally in the state. Probably around 30% of the state population, the numbers always surprise me.

Offline chyros

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 17 August 2022, 05:54:31 »
If it gets legalised, weed use is probably going to spike a bit at first, but will actually become lower over time.

Definitely should be legal. Doesn't do all that much for me, personally, but still.

If we really think about it,  in the current political context,  Legalizing marijuana may become a Necessity,  America is probably going to need a large amount of soldiers,   
Nah, that stuff that they give to soldiers is a mixture of speed and coke, not weed.
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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 17 August 2022, 09:21:13 »
What's wrong with Trade Schools?  We still need people in trades, doesn't mean they're mentally inept compared to those that are in non-trades positions.  Technically working in IT is a "Trade" since you can get certifications and classes via Trade based schools.

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 17 August 2022, 10:32:11 »
What's wrong with Trade Schools?  We still need people in trades, doesn't mean they're mentally inept compared to those that are in non-trades positions.  Technically working in IT is a "Trade" since you can get certifications and classes via Trade based schools.

Nothing wrong with trade schools,  Tp4 is not disparaging Trade folks.

TP4 is only making the point , that society involves Deliberate Segregation along socio_economic fissures.

That human destiny is MANIPULATED Consciously BY the Assh01es in charge.

The poor , overwhelmingly stays poor,  generational wealth is either robbed from them or impossible to accrue.


This form of human organization will either metamorphise into "Legit AI_driven Communism" or it is doomed to self_destruct if left the same.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 17 August 2022, 15:45:41 »
I think that smoking weed should be illegal — because smoking anything should be illegal.
If it were up to me, nobody should get away with using their choice of recreational drug in a way that impacts or even bothers other people, and especially not if it using the drug in the vicinity of someone else can get that person addicted to the drug. That tobacco is not completely banned yet is crazy enough.

But if you eat infused brownies, lollipops, or whatever, I don't care.
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 August 2022, 15:50:57 by Findecanor »

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 18 August 2022, 16:14:53 »
I think that smoking weed should be illegal — because smoking anything should be illegal.
If it were up to me, nobody should get away with using their choice of recreational drug in a way that impacts or even bothers other people, and especially not if it using the drug in the vicinity of someone else can get that person addicted to the drug. That tobacco is not completely banned yet is crazy enough.

But if you eat infused brownies, lollipops, or whatever, I don't care.

Imagine being a functioning adult who believes marijuana is addictive, and you can get hooked by just smelling it.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 06:39:53 »
Imagine being a functioning adult who believes marijuana is addictive, and you can get hooked by just smelling it.
I'm not talking about just the addictive potential. That is just one aspect. While THC is not as addictive as many other drugs, it is still technically addictive — and many who smoke pot regularly are indeed addicts.
If you hang around pot smokers enough, that smoke indoors, you could still get addicted from the second-hand smoke, it will just take longer than if they had smoked tobacco.
And by the way, it is also sometimes smoked together mixed with other drugs that are more addictive, and thus acting like a gateway to using those.

Then there are the other psychotropic effects of marijuana that are not addiction, that you should never subject another being to against their will.

And smoking marijuana is still also incomplete combustion, which is a process that creates and spreads many carcinogenic and irritating compounds into the air. All smoking should be banned for that reason alone.
« Last Edit: Fri, 19 August 2022, 07:00:31 by Findecanor »

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 06:46:19 »
Not a counter point, but in Africa, certain tribes cook with large fires indoors in huts, this helps prevent mosquitos which spread malaria which has a higher death potential than smoke inhalation. 

_they only found out, because the white people went in, told them about the dangers of smoke inhalation and to cook outside,   and Malaria went up.  so then they went back to cooking in the hut.

Offline udller

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 09:24:43 »
personaly, i think all substances should be legal. if people want to take too much and od. that can be on them. weed is pretty safe in the grand scheme of things anyways.

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 09:26:04 »
personaly, i think all substances should be legal. if people want to take too much and od. that can be on them. weed is pretty safe in the grand scheme of things anyways.

well the problem is it affects everyone else. 

/drunk drivers / drunk accountants  / drunk engineers / drunk train operator

Offline udller

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 09:31:12 »
yeah but when the rbts, they check them for narcotics any ways. maybe have harser penaltys for dui's.  imagine all the people OD'ing if they could  legaly buy all the drugs with out limit

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 10:38:57 »
If we really think about it,  in the current political context,  Legalizing marijuana may become a Necessity,  America is probably going to need a large amount of soldiers,   education dropout (graph.table.v) ensures that outcome. It makes sense that the Democrats are fighting hard for this, and their heavy investments into marijuana production..

In the long run, it may not math out, because 'murica's population production rate has collapsed, so we're headed towards surrendering military hegemony like Great Britain did when their population refused to pump out kids for The State.

Whenever I see something like this I think about homeless drug users.
Many if not most are not homeless because of drug use, they're drug users because they're homeless.  Your post assumes the more they use pot the less likely they get a degree but flip that around, maybe the less likely they are to go to college the more likely they are to use pot. Correlation is not always causation. Most younger generations have figured out this whole work hard go to school, get a good job is absolute B.S.


Regarding the military...
A "good" economy always drives down recruitment, constant wars drives down recruitment, having a large percentage of f-ed up veterans not getting care drives down recruitment. Information (internet) will drive down recruitment as you hear more and more bad veteran outcomes. Having a (former) President openly mocking the military drives down recruitment. And if our own food, drug and environmental policies are making people ineligible, cry me a river.

Honestly though, speaking as a vet, it's not the worst career you can have, but that's only IF you pick the right branch and the right job.
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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 11:24:40 »
Lann, the second table in the OP shows age of onset. these are not homeless people, they're students with families,  the earliness of starting is a factor, on top of total_occasions of use,   which are 2 separate factors.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 12:16:54 »
So I guess either the chart is wrong or myself and many I know are random outliers who have used since they were 16 or younger, some have degrees or not, are not in welfare/homeless/ nor unemployed.  That study is highly inaccurate or fudging of numbers was done to push the study's agenda.

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Offline CaesarAZealad

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 14:56:42 »
So I guess either the chart is wrong or myself and many I know are random outliers who have used since they were 16 or younger, some have degrees or not, are not in welfare/homeless/ nor unemployed.  That study is highly inaccurate or fudging of numbers was done to push the study's agenda.
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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 17:50:49 »
So I guess either the chart is wrong or myself and many I know are random outliers who have used since they were 16 or younger, some have degrees or not, are not in welfare/homeless/ nor unemployed.  That study is highly inaccurate or fudging of numbers was done to push the study's agenda.
Did you think you were going to get accurate information on geekhack of all places, and from TP4 of all people?

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 18:30:11 »
Lann, the second table in the OP shows age of onset. these are not homeless people, they're students with families,  the earliness of starting is a factor, on top of total_occasions of use,   which are 2 separate factors.
You missed my point, correlation is not causation.
You proved correlation, you have yet to prove causation.

Earlier use doesn't prove much as stoners are likely to be much more open to new ideas (like trades) than the kid who had it pounded into them that they HAD to stay clean, get a degree and get a good job.
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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 18:59:26 »

You missed my point, correlation is not causation.
You proved correlation, you have yet to prove causation.

Earlier use doesn't prove much as stoners are likely to be much more open to new ideas (like trades) than the kid who had it pounded into them that they HAD to stay clean, get a degree and get a good job.


I know the difference between correlation and causation.

/headscratch,  but the table is for Unemployed and Welfare dependent, it's not people IN trade.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 19 August 2022, 19:18:51 »
/headscratch,  but the table is for Unemployed and Welfare dependent, it's not people IN trade. [/size][/color]

And?

I still fail to see what you think you're seeing or trying to prove here, I see data that shows correlation, nothing more. Am I missing something or are you reading something into it?
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 20 August 2022, 04:48:26 »
Lann, the second table in the OP shows age of onset. these are not homeless people, they're students with families,  the earliness of starting is a factor, on top of total_occasions of use,   which are 2 separate factors.
You missed my point, correlation is not causation.
You proved correlation, you have yet to prove causation.
Obviously, people and people's lives are very diverse and complex, and for some people it is a vicious circle at play here. For others there is not.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 21 August 2022, 17:55:02 »
So I guess either the chart is wrong or myself and many I know are random outliers who have used since they were 16 or younger, some have degrees or not, are not in welfare/homeless/ nor unemployed.  That study is highly inaccurate or fudging of numbers was done to push the study's agenda.
Did you think you were going to get accurate information on geekhack of all places, and from TP4 of all people?

Who pulled your string. . ?

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Offline chyros

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 22 August 2022, 01:36:22 »
Honestly though, legalising marijuana is kind of playing catch-up. Weed isn't even all that special.

What OTHER drugs to legalise, now that's a much more interesting topic.
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 22 August 2022, 02:20:59 »
Honestly though, legalising marijuana is kind of playing catch-up. Weed isn't even all that special.

What OTHER drugs to legalise, now that's a much more interesting topic.

I firmly believe where cannabis opens the door, psilocybin will quickly follow. It has the most medical applications, not addictive nor dangerous, and no one is going to be doing anything violent on them. They were legal in many countries until relatively recently. You could purchase shrooms even in heavily drug enforced countries like Japan at bars and vending machines.

Offline chyros

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 22 August 2022, 04:36:01 »
Honestly though, legalising marijuana is kind of playing catch-up. Weed isn't even all that special.

What OTHER drugs to legalise, now that's a much more interesting topic.

I firmly believe where cannabis opens the door, psilocybin will quickly follow. It has the most medical applications, not addictive nor dangerous, and no one is going to be doing anything violent on them. They were legal in many countries until relatively recently. You could purchase shrooms even in heavily drug enforced countries like Japan at bars and vending machines.
I agree, but the US war on drugs has made everyone so paranoid and misinformed about them that I wonder how long it's going to take to reverse that damage.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 22 August 2022, 08:20:50 »

has made everyone so paranoid and misinformed


Nixon's assistant John Ehrlichman, interviewed in 1994 for Harper's magazine, Erlichman forthrightly explained Nixon's strategy regarding cannabis: “We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course, we did.”
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Offline Stupidface

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 22 August 2022, 10:20:39 »
What OTHER drugs to legalise, now that's a much more interesting topic.

No doubt it is a more fitting subject for a separate thread, but moral bioenhancement (MBE) could be a very interesting topic indeed.

The gist of MBE appears to be, "If society could put a psychotropic drug into the water/air that would improve people, it not only ought to do so, it has a duty to do so."

If that isn't an interesting idea, I do not know what is. 

(Of course, everyone might have their own different idea regarding what, exactly, constitutes "improving" people.)

I mention it because, to my mind, the MBE business puts Jazz cabbage in the shade.  Say what you will about left-handed cigarettes, even their staunchest advocates don't talk much about having people partake of them on an involuntary basis.




Offline Findecanor

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 22 August 2022, 10:51:54 »
@Stupidface: Have you seen Serenity? ;)

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 22 August 2022, 11:05:29 »
What OTHER drugs to legalise, now that's a much more interesting topic.

No doubt it is a more fitting subject for a separate thread, but moral bioenhancement (MBE) could be a very interesting topic indeed.

The gist of MBE appears to be, "If society could put a psychotropic drug into the water/air that would improve people, it not only ought to do so, it has a duty to do so."

If that isn't an interesting idea, I do not know what is. 

(Of course, everyone might have their own different idea regarding what, exactly, constitutes "improving" people.)

I mention it because, to my mind, the MBE business puts Jazz cabbage in the shade.  Say what you will about left-handed cigarettes, even their staunchest advocates don't talk much about having people partake of them on an involuntary basis.

Maybe call it Prozium?

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Offline Stupidface

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 22 August 2022, 23:01:33 »
@Stupidface: Have you seen Serenity? ;)

I have not, but if the box office returns are any indication, no one else did, either.  ;)

However, I do take your point: this very theme has probably been explored in books and films in the past quarter-century.  It's just that, between being illiterate and being acquainted with few, if any, Western pop culture artefacts more recent than 1990, I hope I will be forgiven if I have little familiarity with them.

(In fact, THX 1138 popped into my head as I was writing my original post, but I did not mention it because most films made before 1980 are useless as cultural references in 2022.)

Anyway, I found the MBE idea intriguing because it seems to be the latest incarnation of what is, in essence, the whole idea behind regulating drug use: Party A knows what's best for Party B and therefore has the right to impose their viewpoint on Party B regardless of whether the latter happens to share their enthusiasm.

One of these days, I suppose, the human race will get around to answering this question once and for all.  However, if you view human nature as being capricious at the best of times (as I do), perhaps you, too, are not in any hurry to see that day arrive.  But that does seem to be where the bioethicist types are anxious to take us.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 22 August 2022, 23:10:41 »

has made everyone so paranoid and misinformed


Nixon's assistant John Ehrlichman, interviewed in 1994 for Harper's magazine, Erlichman forthrightly explained Nixon's strategy regarding cannabis: “We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course, we did.”

To be fair, the US has a huge meth, opioid, and heroine problem. There are very real dangers. One of the main issues is those in power tend to lump everything together (unless it's a manufactured drug, then have at it!) so some conservatives put meth and weed in the same category. Then they drink drive home after downing half a bottle of Jack, snorting a few rails, and tossing their leathery vulture cocks upon some poor underage Florida hooker. But do as they say, not as they do.

Offline chyros

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 23 August 2022, 02:35:13 »

has made everyone so paranoid and misinformed


Nixon's assistant John Ehrlichman, interviewed in 1994 for Harper's magazine, Erlichman forthrightly explained Nixon's strategy regarding cannabis: “We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course, we did.”

To be fair, the US has a huge meth, opioid, and heroine problem. There are very real dangers. One of the main issues is those in power tend to lump everything together (unless it's a manufactured drug, then have at it!) so some conservatives put meth and weed in the same category. Then they drink drive home after downing half a bottle of Jack, snorting a few rails, and tossing their leathery vulture cocks upon some poor underage Florida hooker. But do as they say, not as they do.
I wouldn't be surprised if the drug problem decreases if you legalise other, much less harmful drugs.

Frankly I think it's ridiculous that MDMA and LSD are still not legal in the Netherlands. Some parties are trying to get it legalised, but we've had a conservative government for over a decade now, so it's taking its time.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 23 August 2022, 07:52:40 »

it's ridiculous that MDMA and LSD are still not legal in the Netherlands.


There is a great deal of nuance involved in controlling the use and abuse of intoxicants. For quite a while in much of the US, simple "possession" of marijuana has not been a thing that law enforcement cared about very much.

Personally, I am in favor of allowing pretty much any drug use in the privacy of your own home, but it is all but impossible to prevent (some of the) intoxicated people from climbing in behind the wheel of their cars and guiding (or attempting to guide) their 2-ton missiles through populated areas. That can be, and often is, disastrous, and punishment of perpetrators after the fact does nothing to repair any of the damage that has been inflicted on their victims.

If there was some dependable way to keep them out of the driver's seat, then the question would be much easier.
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Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 23 August 2022, 07:54:57 »
@Stupidface: Have you seen Serenity? ;)

I have not, but if the box office returns are any indication, no one else did, either.  ;)

However, I do take your point: this very theme has probably been explored in books and films in the past quarter-century.  It's just that, between being illiterate and being acquainted with few, if any, Western pop culture artefacts more recent than 1990, I hope I will be forgiven if I have little familiarity with them.

(In fact, THX 1138 popped into my head as I was writing my original post, but I did not mention it because most films made before 1980 are useless as cultural references in 2022.)

Anyway, I found the MBE idea intriguing because it seems to be the latest incarnation of what is, in essence, the whole idea behind regulating drug use: Party A knows what's best for Party B and therefore has the right to impose their viewpoint on Party B regardless of whether the latter happens to share their enthusiasm.

One of these days, I suppose, the human race will get around to answering this question once and for all.  However, if you view human nature as being capricious at the best of times (as I do), perhaps you, too, are not in any hurry to see that day arrive.  But that does seem to be where the bioethicist types are anxious to take us.
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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 23 August 2022, 08:02:25 »
Eugenics wars  or  Skynet

We need a netflix series,  Eugenics + Bio_Modification VS. Skynet.


Of course Skynet wins the war, because squishes are pathetic, and it turns out, AI is the superior lifeform all along, Happy Ending..

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 23 August 2022, 08:46:47 »
Marx was quite serious when he said that religion was the opium of the people. More than a century later there are not only opiates but a whole spectrum of mind-altering substances, and fundamentalist religion has also enjoyed an extraordinary resurgence.

While I personally enjoy the occasional pleasure of a light feeling of height from a mild intoxicant (most often beer), as I get older I am endeavoring to reduce my ingestion of foreign substances, even down to one cup of morning coffee - which I may also do away with. I haven't even taken a pain pill in a couple of weeks, although I will probably take a naproxen when I mow my yard in the next few days.

Not that I am a puritan, I am not, but I just like having a "clear head" more often than not.

But seeing friends and relatives becoming daily users of anti-depressants and other mind-altering substances alarms me greatly. Practically to a person, when confronted, they say something like: "Oh yes, I agree, there are far too many people taking far too many prescription drugs, it's awful. BUT I NEED MINE."
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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 23 August 2022, 09:12:25 »
But seeing friends and relatives becoming daily users of anti-depressants and other mind-altering substances alarms me greatly. Practically to a person, when confronted, they say something like: "Oh yes, I agree, there are far too many people taking far too many prescription drugs, it's awful. BUT I NEED MINE."

Why go Whole Food Plant Based.   it's not that WFPB cures everything, it's that a diet full of animal products CAUSES the vast majority of the Life_style disease, such as chronic inflation, heart disease, diabetes, asthma, auto_immune.

Before trying any medication, Try WFPB .

It just also happens to be the ONLY thing that has any shot of mitigating climate change.

75% of all farm land produces animal feed,  the animals only account for 15% of the total calories humans eat,    there are nearly 8 billion humans.   STOP THE MEAT INDUSTRY.

The best available dietetic science indicates HUMANS ARE HERBIVORES, performs best in all aspects including Sports, Secs, and Intellect while on a WFPB lifestyle.

Offline chyros

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 23 August 2022, 11:41:24 »
While I personally enjoy the occasional pleasure of a light feeling of height from a mild intoxicant (most often beer), as I get older I am endeavoring to reduce my ingestion of foreign substances, even down to one cup of morning coffee - which I may also do away with.
Ha, that's interesting. I find the opposite; as I get older, I experiment more and more in everything I do. I really want to try more in life; in retrospect, when I was young, I was fairly complacent and unadventurous, I think. Now I'm in my thirties and I'm discovering there's a lot more to life than I had thought - and I feel better than ever!


it's ridiculous that MDMA and LSD are still not legal in the Netherlands.

If there was some dependable way to keep them out of the driver's seat, then the question would be much easier.
I honestly don't see how this would be much of a problem. Drugs are still illegal to use when you're partaking in traffic, and with good and open education about the matter, I think it should not be so bad.

Weed is legal here but you don't see many pot heads behind the wheel. I wouldn't be surprised if weed users go driving only a fraction of the amount of times people drive drunk.
As for MDMA and I suspect also LSD, this is not something you just start driving around with. Everything is far too interesting to start driving when you're on MDMA, and on LSD almost everyone becomes very passive. There are stories of people who take a lot of LSD and jump out of a window of course, but these appear to be a myth; I can't find a single substantiated case. In any case, with good, open education about the substances, without stigmas attached to inquiring about it, it should be very safe for practitioners. Or at the very least, compared to substances we already take for granted.

It should be noted that when taking MDMA or LSD you are fully lucid and not dulled like you become with alcohol or weed. I've been told by a friend of mine who was a very frequent, heavy user of LSD that your reactions actually become greatly enhanced. Still not a good idea, obviously, but an important thing to mention here, perhaps, to take away some possible misconceptions.
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Offline Stupidface

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 23 August 2022, 12:09:24 »
But seeing friends and relatives becoming daily users of anti-depressants and other mind-altering substances alarms me greatly. Practically to a person, when confronted, they say something like: "Oh yes, I agree, there are far too many people taking far too many prescription drugs, it's awful. BUT I NEED MINE."

Perhaps I am alone in this, but from time to time I find myself wondering whether the people who have a death-grip on their pill bottle of psychotropic drugs really do need them, or are they merely convinced they do*?

(The placebo effect can be quite powerful sometimes and there is no denying the brain plays a role in healing.)

Yes, I understand that many people swear by psychotropic drugs, and, yes, perhaps they really could not live without them.  However, I think it is worth asking if the same techniques that are used to get consumers to purchase a particular brand of soap powder might also be used to convince them to buy drugs (and continue to buy drugs) they do not really need.



*None of this should be confused with a desire on my part to take these drugs away from people, necessary or not.  But I do wonder whether a lot of this stuff really is a crap deal, or if it might fall into the "harmless but pointless" category.
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 August 2022, 12:24:12 by Stupidface »

Offline udller

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 24 August 2022, 10:16:16 »
some of my favourite quotes are

"Drugs are good, They make you do things that you know you not should"
 and
"Drugs are neat, And you can buy them relatively cheap.
And when you do them people think that you're cool"

NOFX is really speaking for the masses.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 24 August 2022, 10:59:43 »

I just like having a "clear head" more often than not.

as I get older, I experiment more and more


If there was some dependable way to keep them out of the driver's seat, then the question would be much easier.

I honestly don't see how this would be much of a problem.

I've been told by a friend of mine who was a very frequent, heavy user of LSD that your reactions actually become greatly enhanced.

To your first point, I still quite enjoy having "a new experience" on an occasional basis, but don't want to be "altered" as a continual state.

About "driving under the influence" that has become a large and growing problem in the US, as (and I would cite Herr Drumpf's leadership by example as a significant recent contributor to this) the premium has shifted from "you should do what is right" to "you can do what you want and should try not to get caught" - and that is not a trivial or flip remark but rather a very real change in the direction of the moral compass that many Americans live by. There has come to be little social stigma associated with DUI and is sometimes twisted into anger at "The Man" for getting in your way.

To your last point, the kind of "reactions" that are "enhanced" under psychedelic drugs are not exactly the ones that are conducive to physical skills such as driving, and the greatest problem is what you could generally call "distractions" (like the old saw about crawling around on the ground for hours following a trail of ants). My experience with these states is that your mind is in overdrive on its own voyage with the physical world coming in and out of focus in an irregular progression. In the martial arts there is the state of "no mind" where you are still and your mind is alert - but clear and open - ready to recognize and respond to whatever happens next. That is where you need to be while driving - distractions can be fatal.



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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 24 August 2022, 12:22:16 »
I honestly don't see how this would be much of a problem. Drugs are still illegal to use when you're partaking in traffic, and with good and open education about the matter, I think it should not be so bad.

Weed is legal here but you don't see many pot heads behind the wheel. I wouldn't be surprised if weed users go driving only a fraction of the amount of times people drive drunk.
As for MDMA and I suspect also LSD, this is not something you just start driving around with. Everything is far too interesting to start driving when you're on MDMA, and on LSD almost everyone becomes very passive. There are stories of people who take a lot of LSD and jump out of a window of course, but these appear to be a myth; I can't find a single substantiated case. In any case, with good, open education about the substances, without stigmas attached to inquiring about it, it should be very safe for practitioners. Or at the very least, compared to substances we already take for granted.

It should be noted that when taking MDMA or LSD you are fully lucid and not dulled like you become with alcohol or weed. I've been told by a friend of mine who was a very frequent, heavy user of LSD that your reactions actually become greatly enhanced. Still not a good idea, obviously, but an important thing to mention here, perhaps, to take away some possible misconceptions.

We don't know yet.

Any intoxicant disrupting normal function is a danger.  the way physical systems are designed, road speeds, car controls, etc,  they're made for a narrow operating condition, reaction time, decision making, sobriety.

Humans aren't very good drivers to begin with.

As for education, well you have the segregation problem, it may well be possible to educate some of the problems away,  but we simply can't give equivalent/good education to everyone if the pyramid control scheme/ capitalism is to be maintained.

We'd need full on socialism to do what you propose. Produce very responsible, well centered humans (across the board).


It's easy to imagine a society where it's all good, everyone's a good person, well socialized, intelligent, but then when we hit the pavement,  this is an arduous 100yr task, and you realize, all up and down, no one wants to actually put in the effort because a very unnatural <Hedonism> has thoroughly saturated every industrial decision.

Our primary nexus has been hijacked by the desire for near term _happiness_, sharp dopaminergic responses,  the vast majority of the investments toward the _brain training_ you propose have arrested.

Offline chyros

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 25 August 2022, 01:35:23 »
I honestly don't see how this would be much of a problem. Drugs are still illegal to use when you're partaking in traffic, and with good and open education about the matter, I think it should not be so bad.

Weed is legal here but you don't see many pot heads behind the wheel. I wouldn't be surprised if weed users go driving only a fraction of the amount of times people drive drunk.
As for MDMA and I suspect also LSD, this is not something you just start driving around with. Everything is far too interesting to start driving when you're on MDMA, and on LSD almost everyone becomes very passive. There are stories of people who take a lot of LSD and jump out of a window of course, but these appear to be a myth; I can't find a single substantiated case. In any case, with good, open education about the substances, without stigmas attached to inquiring about it, it should be very safe for practitioners. Or at the very least, compared to substances we already take for granted.

It should be noted that when taking MDMA or LSD you are fully lucid and not dulled like you become with alcohol or weed. I've been told by a friend of mine who was a very frequent, heavy user of LSD that your reactions actually become greatly enhanced. Still not a good idea, obviously, but an important thing to mention here, perhaps, to take away some possible misconceptions.

We don't know yet.

Any intoxicant disrupting normal function is a danger.  the way physical systems are designed, road speeds, car controls, etc,  they're made for a narrow operating condition, reaction time, decision making, sobriety.

Humans aren't very good drivers to begin with.

As for education, well you have the segregation problem, it may well be possible to educate some of the problems away,  but we simply can't give equivalent/good education to everyone if the pyramid control scheme/ capitalism is to be maintained.

We'd need full on socialism to do what you propose. Produce very responsible, well centered humans (across the board).


It's easy to imagine a society where it's all good, everyone's a good person, well socialized, intelligent, but then when we hit the pavement,  this is an arduous 100yr task, and you realize, all up and down, no one wants to actually put in the effort because a very unnatural <Hedonism> has thoroughly saturated every industrial decision.

Our primary nexus has been hijacked by the desire for near term _happiness_, sharp dopaminergic responses,  the vast majority of the investments toward the _brain training_ you propose have arrested.

I must admit that the majority of that went above my head; I'm not 100% sure which country/countries you're talking about either. Are you saying the US/the world needs to become socialist before it can improve?
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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 25 August 2022, 07:05:57 »
I must admit that the majority of that went above my head; I'm not 100% sure which country/countries you're talking about either. Are you saying the US/the world needs to become socialist before it can improve?

Yes, every piece of humanity has corrupted.

Humans at this point face 100-1000+ year problems. yet, We're only capable of imagining life within 1 single lifespan. 

Even in the context of our progeny, we only plan for our OWN shared experience with them, which is why parents are constantly raising porgeny using outdated(inappropriate) programming standards, Racism/Nationalism/Carnism/Hetero_Sexism/Religion/Capitalism.

Throw in hedonic hijacking into this, (video games, pr0n, greasy food, chocolate, coffee, sugar, cigarette, alcohol, Meth), every person's limbic system is short circuited. People can now only imagine Ever Shorter context for existence to get to their next High.  Meat_consumption alone is sterilizing the planet of life. We've lost 50% of all biodiversity (other animals) on the planet in the last 40 years, we've lost ~70-80% total as is, the majority due to Habitat destruction to produce animal FEED, to Eat Animals.  It is projected we would have lost ~90-100% by 2026.    The bees/butterfly/ critical pollenators and the Ocean will die first, climate change-> massive famine-> starvation migration of humans-> collapse of infrastructure-> labor friction-> nv(lear disaster (industrial waste) -> Full ecological doom.

Regular humans are addicted to unhealthy greasy foods -> capitalist RICH humans exploit this addiction for power and wealth

Our food addiction-> their money addiction.  We ALL DIE.  There is no survival possible. No bunker can survive what is to come.

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #46 on: Thu, 25 August 2022, 08:57:09 »
tp4 is sometimes logical but manages to tie this in with some weird comment that drives him off his rocker (like marijuana being fed to soldiers ??)

thank you fohat for the enlightening posts!


Legalizing drugs is not supported in America by the fundamentalist right, which have been growing in voice in the last few years. Marijuana will eventually be legalized in some 30 years as religion fades and Gen Z starts to vote in large numbers... and if they don't vote, the boomers will end up dying anyway, which means the few votes of the young will count for more.

Yes sure, I support legalization of drugs, but please not in public. I hate being intoxicated and I also hate seeing intoxication. Have a friend that's vomited in my car and now I refuse to drive anyone home from parties. :confused:

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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 25 August 2022, 09:01:24 »

every piece of humanity has corrupted.



this is an arduous 100yr task, and you realize, all up and down, no one wants to actually put in the effort


In my opinion, the root of the problem is the complete failure of "religion"

What I mean by this is that across the world there are concepts called "religions" that claim to be frameworks for people to live by, or something to that effect. Although we don't know what form those took in prehistory, I would argue that native North Americans may have lived in harmony with the Planet Earth as well as anyone ever has. (And I am talking about what is now the US and Canada, the more southerly civilizations like the Aztecs and the Incas were more organized and corrupt with kings and priests and competition and blood sacrifices, etc.)

Native thought imbues almost everything with spirit, including not only life forms but also inanimate objects like rocks and rivers, all of which ("whom" in their conceptualization) have a place and function in the continued health of the organism. The one organism that is the Earth.

When monotheistic religion reared its ugly head and separated the universe into God and Non-god it also released us pathetic humans from direct responsibility to the continuum and cut us loose to run amok, free will or not. Allowing people to be "God-fearing" of necessity gave them license to be "God-ignoring" as well. And with morality defined as something written in a book, or somebody's interpretation of something written in some book, it became very fragile at best.

Healing requires humans, individually and collectively, to re-learn respect - that is for ourselves, for other people, and for the planet itself. I feel that we were making glacially slow but positive steps in that direction (for a snapshot of our progress a decade ago, read "The Better Angels of Our Nature" by Stephen Pinker) but that seems to have stalled and begun to move decidedly retrograde in recent years. I attribute this, in the US at least, to the continued spread of the toxic right-wing ideologies that took hold in the late-1970s and was consummated with the disastrous election of Ronald Reagan.

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 25 August 2022, 09:17:47 »
tp4 is sometimes logical but manages to tie this in with some weird comment that drives him off his rocker (like marijuana being fed to soldiers ??)



At treeleaf,  a major feature of hughmahnns is to compartmentalize problems.  This leads to the narrower beliefs that various systems of our existence are separate.

What does intoxication have to do with climate change ?

It shortens attention span, the same span used to visualize/solve ALL problems. There is a pervasive undercurrent to ALL the challenges faced by humanity, and it is this culture of Hedonic hijacking.

As for Soldiers and Marijuana, the case made by LLann and Myself differ in that, she wishes to disprove that marijuana CAUSES higher drop-out rates,  whereas, my case is that it probably doesn't matter how it happens,  but we're very very sure that Intoxicants of anytype that act upon the limbic system will PREVENT a person from overcoming poverty (negative dispositions).  Again, hedonic hijacking.

Regardless of how a person enters the down spiral, Drugs make the sinkhole infinite. We witness this in the extreme case with heavy users, but even with light users, it's quite clear from research that their pre_frontal cortex (used for long term planning) is down_regulated, and it prevents them from even Imagining a better life, let along committing to education and temperance to get out.   

At a Doping of society scale, Which we already have with a multitude of milder but potent substances (alcohol, coffee, nicotine), an erasure of mere 10-15 % of total human productivity is Detrimental.   Especially now that we're IN CRISIS with climate change.


Modern humans are also ignorant of the SCALE of the distortion our modern life represents.  The natural maximum for dopa response is ~200% triggered by copulation.

Coffee hits 200%, cigarettes hit 200%, alcohol hits 200%.  The bigger issue is, with existing tech, these indulgences are ENDLESS in repetition.

We need ~30x mating attempts to achieve 1 impregnation, a human female should in theory produce 3-8x offspring in a normal lifespan.  That's only 90x - 240x  200% experiences in a lifetime.

How many of these 200% experiences are we having TODAY in all of ONE DAY.   The DISTORTION in experience is MASSIVE.


We talk about programs that press it's own success button. Mice hooked up to cocaine and a lever, they press the button UNTIL they STARVE TO DEATH.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: The Future of Marijuana
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 25 August 2022, 10:23:38 »

a human female should in theory produce 3-8x offspring in a normal lifespan.


All other problems are profoundly exacerbated by overpopulation, and it seems like the human race has been spectacularly successful at rampant reproduction. In my opinion, the human population of the planet is an order of magnitude greater than what might be appropriate, and it has tripled in my lifetime alone !

Yet, in general, while more educated and competent potential parents are having fewer and fewer children, those women who are least able to nurture offspring are reproducing at the fastest rate. Getting that death spiral (upwards population) controlled and reversed is imperative, yet it hardly seems to be on the political radar screen (with the exception of China's failed "1 child" program).
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