New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)

[Halverson]

Sorry if I missed it, but what kind of prices we looking at approximately at this high MOQ?

the switch per-se is not terribly expensive, the problem is that we need new keycaps, stabs, plates, case, ....

Matt3o: Are you planning on designing your own cases?  Or will these drop into standard "MX" ones?

we need a whole new case, yes. Technically it works on a cherry mx switch plate, but it's not a perfect fit.

Hmmmmm hopefully plans for a kit come up someday

[Matt3o]

This is more or less what I wanted to do.



basically an HHKB with split spacebar. Unfortunately I don't have all the key size to make it perfect, but I can settle with that for a prototype.

[Halverson]

This is more or less what I wanted to do.

Show Image

basically an HHKB with split spacebar. Unfortunately I don't have all the key size to make it perfect, but I can settle with that for a prototype.

Looking good!

[dante]

I'm not a big fan of the HHKB layout, however as long as it's fully programmable - for example I can implement dual space-fn layers with the space bars then I'm all good.

[Sarreq Teryx]

soooooo, where can the rest of us buy these??  Looking to try to build my own Teensy keyboard.

[Sarreq Teryx]

I guess the blaring non-response means we can't?

[hking0036]

I guess the blaring non-response means we can't?

It's going to be a little while yet, yes. You can try and contact kaihua like matt3o but it's probably better just to wait it out.

[dante]

Still interested in April!

[SNReloaded]

I love all the work being done with the ML-based switches! 60% keyboards with this profile of switch would be pretty neat, since it would be a great travel option/take to class option!

Cheers, and keep up the good work : )

[Russbo]

I'm really interested to here more about these switches too - registered just to say so! Hope keycaps happen soon - When they do a group buy should be able to happen since you can already pick these switches up on Globalsources.

Is there any more info Matt3o?

[danwomansan]

I just want to pop in and see if there's more info on these switches and their keycaps yet

[RominRonin]

Bump.


I would very much like to build my own custom board out of these.

[dante]

Still interested in April!

Still interested in May!

[Russbo]

I'm also still interested.

There was a post by Kailh on /r/mechanicalkeyboards about a week ago saying to contact them about switches, but still haven't heard anything about keycaps. The rep that was in that thread had rather rudimentary English skills so communication was difficult at best.

[SNReloaded]

I'm still interested. It would be awesome to build a slim Planck with these for travel

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Matt3o]

I've been very busy with the MT3 keycap profile, but I'm still interested in doing something with this switch.

We are trying to run another batch of WhiteFox (with or without massdrop), as soon as that is defined I can move on other projects.

[Russbo]

The caps you posted earlier on were looking good, I'd love to see more soon.

Personally, I'm primarily interested in perhaps a group buy on switches and caps, I'm thinking of making my own PCB and case.

[Findecanor]

The Tesoro Gram prototype at Computex 2017. It has been rumoured that this would be the Kailh switch ... Is it?

[Vladimir]

Yes, but I don't know which kind.
That's because Kaihua made two of them, Choc (closer to ML) and Choc mini.
Each kind will have its variations (at least blue and red alike).

http://imgur.com/a/yrECe

Choc: 3mm travel | 50g | actuation at 1.5mm | total height 8mm | lifespan 70 mi
Choc mini: 2.4 mm travel | 50g | actuation at 1.2mm | total height 5.85mm | lifespan 25 mi

Also apeared at Computex: http://imgur.com/a/JqiAq
Photo 37 and 38, I think.


Announcement:
https://www.wstx.com/p-23617-1

Keyboard already using the switches
Dareu EK820
http://item.jd.com/4781628.html

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/6elfwe/newscomputex_kaiihau_kailh_announced_choc_series/

[HendyZone]

The Tesoro Gram prototype at Computex 2017. It has been rumoured that this would be the Kailh switch ... Is it?

Yeah, this one use the Kailh low profile switches for sure

Many clones start to make low profile switch again.

[Russbo]

Man I want some of those ~6mm switches and caps so badly. I thought the switches weren't supposed to be ML cap compatible?

[Vladimir]

I was thinking about having those as well, but then I see the lifespan drops from 70 million to 25. Ouch
It's better if we leave them to use only with notebooks, when it's absolutely necessary to have them as small as possible.

And no, even if they look alike, ML caps won't fit the Chocs. I think is about the position of the stem/slider. One is more centered than the other I GUESS. I even saw someone fiting the caps, but it looks like the upper wall of the cap hit the housing or something, so you can't press properly.

Many clones start to make low profile switch again.

I didn't knew that. Can you show other clones here? Is always good to have options.
So far, I've only see Kaihua making them.

[dante]

I was thinking about having those as well, but then I see the lifespan drops from 70 million to 25. Ouch

Considering Cherry/clones very rarely (in my experience) last beyond a year without something chattering I'll take a gamble for the feels.

I'm going to post a query in the main forum to figure out the best way to order that EK820.

[davkol]

Many clones start to make low profile switch again.

I didn't knew that. Can you show other clones here? Is always good to have options.
So far, I've only see Kaihua making them.

AFAIK, Gateron (in some gaming keyboard) and TTC (in a Lenovo "laptop") are confirmed.

[Vladimir]

Many clones start to make low profile switch again.

I didn't knew that. Can you show other clones here? Is always good to have options.
So far, I've only see Kaihua making them.

AFAIK, Gateron (in some gaming keyboard) and TTC (in a Lenovo "laptop") are confirmed.

TTC is unknow to me. I mean, I heard about the company but haven't see any review about their switches.
But when I've search for the Gateron ones, this is what I've found:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/tesoro-chiclet-mechanical-keyboard-gateron,33395.html

"Update, 1/11/17, 10:55am PT: We have received confirmation that these switches were developed by Tesoro in a partnership with Gateron, not Kailh, as we'd previously suspected.

The keyboard pictured here is a handmade prototype, but Tesoro expects the final, shipping version in Q2, by the time Computex rolls around this summer."

So, we were wrong. The KB in the video it's not Kailh, but Gateron.

EDIT: Potato pictures of the Gateron and TTC version:
TTC

Gateron

[dante]

A 60% comes forth: http://imgur.com/a/TbjtK

[SNReloaded]

A 60% comes forth: http://imgur.com/a/TbjtK

I really like this. I would purchase this or some form of Planck variant

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Vladimir]

A 60% comes forth: http://imgur.com/a/TbjtK

I could totally buy this.
It would be better with blue, but whatever.
Any link where we can buy it yet?

The numbers were moved 1u to the right.
Also reducing the backspace size.
It disturbs me a little...

EDIT: I've just see where you've found this. I will leave the source, for reference:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/6gf1ub/keyboard_spotting_rakk_gears_low_profile_60/

[Malachor]

Has anyone seen these switches? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=89657.msg2427611#msg2427611

[Vladimir]

First time I've seen this.
The HKNS looks the same as the Greetech GT04.
The first report I've found was this, jan 2016:

Source*
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/41sifb/the_mysterious_greetech_gt04_laptop_switch/
BTW, the lenovo y900 talked about in this link, actually uses the TTC by the look of it.

On the Greetech main site, informs that it has:
Travel 2.5mm | 50mi lifespan | 7.8 mm total height
Black and blue variations.
On the Greetech Alibaba link, additionally inform the pre-travel of 1.5mm
Force weight still unknow. Only shows a red stem variation.

The HKNS alibaba link shows a few diferent things.
The lifespan is 20 million and pre-travel at 1.2mm.
Same height and total travel. Black and Blue variations.

On the banner, showed at source*, the Greetech informs 20 million lifespan. Black and Red variations. Same height.
Judging at how they mistake the name of the switch, we can't know for sure about what are the true values.

[Russbo]

I messaged Rakk, no response about the board yet. I thought the video had been removed but it's further down their page:

https://www.facebook.com/rakk.ph/videos/1896373617253070/

[doman18]

Wow! Maybe this will finally get me into the mechanical keyboard world!

[kurplop]

I ordered some of the Kailh Low Profile switches direct from Kailh. I was shocked but delighted to find them delivered from Hong Kong to my California doorstep just four days after I paid for them through Paypal.

I ordered some of each type and my initial favorites are the reds. They all feel pretty good though.


The Kailh switches footprint is noticeably bigger than the ML's but just slightly higher.


From the underside you can see that it lacks the ML's jumper pins which make for easier trace runs (especially on 1 sided PCB's) but they seem to have provisions for both PCB only mounting and plate mounting. For the backlighting crowd, the clear case top is a plus.


It will be a while before I will be able to use these but I'm looking forward to making a few keyboards with them.

Anyone wishing to work with these will have to figure out what to do about caps since none are available yet. I will probably mill out a few masters, make molds and cast them in urethane.


 

[Russbo]

Do you have a mechanical drawing or 3D model of the caps? If so would you be able to share it here? I also have a CNC router which I could make some molds with.

[kurplop]

Do you have a mechanical drawing or 3D model of the caps? If so would you be able to share it here? I also have a CNC router which I could make some molds with.

I haven't gotten that far yet. I was planning on starting with a modified Cherry ML cap. The two caps aren't compatible because the spacing of the stems is slightly different and they are not centered on the ML cap.

If I machine the masters, I'll get the precise dimensions of the Kailh stems but mostly freehand in the shape of the cap without exact drawings.

If anyone would like to sample them, PM me and I'll send you a few for my costs. I  have extras but not an endless supply I may have to end the offer at some point.

Eventually, I think Massdrop should offer them. They could get volume pricing and while the distributer was helpful, I don't think they are set up for small orders.

[mrbishop]

any likely hood of a KiCAD footprint? asking for a friend... also i need those browns! i'd love to know how much they are and what the MOQ is might have to design some PCB's to fit them

[Russbo]

any likely hood of a KiCAD footprint? asking for a friend... also i need those browns! i'd love to know how much they are and what the MOQ is might have to design some PCB's to fit them

When I get a moment I'll try and crack one out. Could be a while, I'm extraordinarily busy at the moment.

It's interesting, the caps from my G84 don't fit that badly, I can see they don't bottom out but still actuate.

What I might do is design a chiclet cap since that suits my project, get them professionally 3D printed, make a mold from them and then make a board from ones I cast.

Big thanks to kurplop for sending the switches over, they're really cool

[kurplop]

any likely hood of a KiCAD footprint? asking for a friend... also i need those browns! i'd love to know how much they are and what the MOQ is might have to design some PCB's to fit them

I bought mine from Bella at Kailua.  sales12@kailh.com   He is willing to sell small quantities for 0.21USD per switch plus shipping.

I bought extra and can sell some at my cost but I don't know if I can part with enough for a full keyboard. PM me if you think I can help.

I saw a pcb footprint diagram somewhere. I'll try to find it for you.

[Russbo]

If you saw an existing footprint, would be great if you could share it, saves me some time haha!

[mrbishop]

yes footprint! i hear there is one on easyeda but i dont use them for designing as ive put so much time into learning KiCAD (and am rather proficient in it now) also yes PM me or email me with any details on purchasing bishopkeyboards@gmail.com

thanks so much!

also did you say you tried cherry ML caps on these? do they fit ok?

does Kailh sell the stabilizers for these?

[kurplop]

http://www.kailh.com/gb/Productdetail.asp?Productid=1584

This is their data sheet on the 1350 switches.

I found that the stems on the ML caps have just a slight bit different spacing.

[mrbishop]

http://www.kailh.com/gb/Productdetail.asp?Productid=1584

This is their data sheet on the 1350 switches.

I found that the stems on the ML caps have just a slight bit different spacing.

sweeeet time to try my hand at a from scratch footprint 

[mrbishop]

https://i.imgur.com/1piX3xM.png getting there. need to verify the key cap size and positioning

[Russbo]

Fantastic mrbishop, looking good.

KiCad's pretty great isn't it? I'm using it for various circuit boards I make (non keyboard related). But soon I will be making keyboards with it rest assured!

The ML caps do fit, mine do anyway, they just rub a bit at the bottom of the actuation because they aren't centered right.

[mrbishop]

Fantastic mrbishop, looking good.

KiCad's pretty great isn't it? I'm using it for various circuit boards I make (non keyboard related). But soon I will be making keyboards with it rest assured!

The ML caps do fit, mine do anyway, they just rub a bit at the bottom of the actuation because they aren't centered right.

thanks a ton! I will get a test board fabricated with this footprint soon-ish (next time i order more PCB's) but i need someone to be willing to ship me 2-4 caps so i can properly test. i have a cherry ML board i can borrow caps from but lack the new switches to test properly. i do want to get some of these switches and caps long term but i'll need a sample before i decide to buy in quantity. not begging just thinking out loud

[ant1ksts]

teaser-ino

Show Image

Could somebody tell me where I can buy such keycaps? Thanks!

[hanya]

As described in the following entry of someone, Kailh has stoc of keycap for PG1350 switch, it seems.
http://hrhg.hatenablog.com/entry/2017/05/23/055419

[Russbo]

As described in the following entry of someone, Kailh has stoc of keycap for PG1350 switch, it seems.
http://hrhg.hatenablog.com/entry/2017/05/23/055419

Fantastic find Hanya! Now we just need to get our hands on some. Would save me a great deal of messing about with making keycaps. Haven't even gotten around to finalizing my 3D model and sending it off to get printed yet. I'll hold fire now.

[Tiramisuu]

Sub'ed in hopes of blank 1u keycaps.
A fascinating switch but with no keycaps it isn't much use.

[Vladimir]

http://www.kailh.com/gb/Productdetail.asp?Productid=1584

This is their data sheet on the 1350 switches.

I found that the stems on the ML caps have just a slight bit different spacing.

404

This link may solve: http://www.kailh.com/uploads/soft/170802/1-1FP2103447.pdf
(download while you can)

Also, this is the list of Choc switches (1350):