Just scored a server...

[Oqsy]

I just got an "old" server that's in pristine cosmetic shape.  It's running either Win2K Pro or Win NT 4, not sure and haven't booted it up yet.  It appears to be a custom built system with no brand ID or labels anywhere inside or outside the case.  The motherboard is an Intel S845wd1-e with some kind of P4 processor, but I'm not certain at this point.  I'll gladly report back with more details as I learn more about it.  I know NOTHING about servers and their hardware as I've always been on the client side of tracks.  

I'm really not sure what to do with it at this point in time, and I'm really open to all kinds of suggestions for what any of you would do with it if you had one to tinker with.  Keep in mind I am server illiterate, so thinks like "RAID" and "Network Controller" make my eyes glaze over and my palms sweat profusely with anxiety.  

I'm going to get some PS/2 extensions, a power cable, and another monitor cable to get it up and running in a bit and I'll add to this thread with more specifics once I get into the os and peek around a bit.

r

[microsoft windows]

Is it just one P4 or is this server a dualie?

[Oqsy]

That's a good question my friend.

[D-EJ915]

heh P4s...wouldn't use that personally but might be fun to learn MS-DOS 1.0 on

[TexasFlood]

Servers are basically "computers" - there is very little that differs between them and typical desktop machines (rackmount stuff can be tricky, example being C2T connectors to simplify KVM control of many servers but complicates the hell out of standalone use)

Basically, treat it like a desktop. You're just running a server OS which has features that allow it to do more stuff (provide services, etc) over your network.

Well, the servers I order (not for personal use, I wish), at least these days, tend to have more processors, more robust & high performance disk systems, more memory with performance and redundancy improvements, integrated management systems which typically support cool stuff like virtual I/O, audible &/or externally visible light diagnostics, redundant power supplies, etc.

[TexasFlood]

True, but if it's got a P4, it's probably nothing terribly complex.

You got me there, and I saw it coming, but couldn't stop myself, :wink:

[8_INCH_FLOPPY]

heh P4s...wouldn't use that personally but might be fun to learn MS-DOS 1.0 on

For a site that is full of people who appreciate old keyboards, there is a surprising amount of arrogance regarding new computer hardware.  My P4 is my fastest pc, and I don't even use it all the time.  Unless your a computer illiterate, a gamer, or a graphics designer, there is really no practical reason to buy a new computer any more often than every 7 years or so.  Even today, there isn't much you can't do with a P3.

[HaaTa]

... Unless your a computer illiterate, a gamer, programmer, or a graphics designer, there is really no practical reason to buy a new computer any more often than every 7 years or so...

There fixed it for ya.

I've had the displeasure of having to compile KDE3 on a P3/P4 era system for bug fixes. Never again.

Lots of vintage computer enthusiasts around here, though they tend to congregate more around IRC.

The bitterness you're seeing is mostly due to EIBM and MW.

[InSanCen]

For a site that is full of people who appreciate old keyboards, there is a surprising amount of arrogance regarding new computer hardware.  My P4 is my fastest pc, and I don't even use it all the time.  Unless your a computer illiterate, a gamer, or a graphics designer, there is really no practical reason to buy a new computer any more often than every 7 years or so.  Even today, there isn't much you can't do with a P3.

I'd chuck a P3 out of the window in short order. Hell, I throw faster away regularly unless someone wants it. It's not worth my time and effort for the return.

So, what would you say to me then, with my Quad core with 4GB, not being any of the above? Am I going overkill just for the Specs? Bear in Mind there is no way in hell I'm a Gamer or Graphics Designer and I most certainly am not Computer Illiterate.

[Oqsy]

It booted into NT4...  it appears to be a 2.3ish GHz P4 with 1 GB RAM.  Nothing outstanding, but it has potential for goofing off.  This may be where I install arch linux...

[ch_123]

For a site that is full of people who appreciate old keyboards, there is a surprising amount of arrogance regarding new computer hardware.  My P4 is my fastest pc, and I don't even use it all the time.  Unless your a computer illiterate, a gamer, or a graphics designer, there is really no practical reason to buy a new computer any more often than every 7 years or so.  Even today, there isn't much you can't do with a P3.

I think you're confusing arrogance with anti-troll trolling.

Either way, the reality is that most stuff from the 90s is just junk. It's not fast, it's not well built, and the hard drive or PSU is probably going to explode sooner or later... Given how easy it is to find even a dual core system for free these days, there's really no reason to get a hard on over a Pentium II/III system, unless there's actually something intrinsically interesting about it.

[microsoft windows]

NT4's a perfectly good OS, but I'd recommend putting W2K on it. It'll run lightning-fast.

[instantkamera]

I'd recommend putting W2K on it. It'll run lightning-fast.

No it wont. Stick with arch.

[microsoft windows]

You'll be surprised how fast and reliable Windows 2000 SP4 runs. And it's compatible with a lot more things than Linux.

[Oqsy]

I have used win2k before for about 6 years and love it.  I'll take your suggestion into consideration.

[ch_123]

[instantkamera]

You'll be surprised how fast and reliable Windows 2000 SP4 runs. And it's compatible with a lot more things than Linux.

I wouldn't, I HAVE used it before. If you are going to fart around on a server and add to the power bill, it's best to learn about something that is actually relevant to computing.

[FunkTrooper]

Arch, as a concept, always seems so appealing to me. However, whenver I try to installing it, something goes wrong. Just the other day I tried on an old Pentium 4 (3.4GHz with HT) that I acquired, and I followed the beginner's guide religiously. Initially it was fine, and I had my GNOME desktop up. Then I shut it down.

Now when I turn it on, it gets stuck and fails to enable networking during boot, and although it shows the GNOME logon screen, it doesn't manage to do anything after you enter your login info.

This is just one of many failed attempts. What am I doing wrong, I wonder...

[ch_123]

Does it let you move your mouse/enter characters from the keyboard?

You could try dropping down to tty1 and manually set up the network by running dhcpcd eth0 as root. Assuming of course, that you're using DHCP.

[ch_123]

Linux? Relevant?

Oqsy was talking about installing it at the bottom of the first page.

[mike]

Linux? Relevant?

Last I checked the management of Windows group policies (and other domain-relevant stuff) was best performed from a Windows machine.

Though, I suppose it's unlikely he's going to be running it as a domain controller...

a) It depends what tasks you want to run whether Linux is as relevant (or more so) than Windows. And you can run Linux as a domain controller.

b) Having just come off a Windows Server 2008 course, I can say that it is recommended to edit group policies somewhere other than the domain controller.

c) It may well be that group policies for Linux (yes they do exist) are best edited with something other than the Microsoft group policy editor.

[microsoft windows]

I have used win2k before for about 6 years and love it.  I'll take your suggestion into consideration.

I've always loved 2000 too. For home computing, it's great. And it shouldn't be hard to find W2k drivers for your server if it's got a P4.

My Windows 2000 machines always ran extremely fast. They start up fast and shut down in less than a second.

[microsoft windows]

But your username isn't Linux.

[ch_123]

When I had Mac OS X installed on my desktop, it took about a second to shut down too. I guess that makes it as good as Windows 2000, amirite?

[microsoft windows]

You all have inspired me to make a thread about operating systems.

[ch_123]

We've had about three of those. Try something original.

[microsoft windows]

Look who's talking.

[ch_123]

Yes, I am. You were saying?

[Oqsy]

MSW:  I like win2k.  I know it well but really have no interest in putting around with it on a second computer when I don't even run it any more on my main computer.  I've done that.  I'm ready to try new things.  There's a whole other thread where I decided on a Linux distro to play around with (I'm pretty sure you crashed it, too), and I think this server would be a great place to try it.  

Oh, and since it's a statistic that really matters so much; if win2k on a p4 shuts down in a second, how fast will it shut down with Arch?

[instantkamera]

Who knows? We don't shut our servers down.








In all honestly, far longer than a second, depending on what you are running, and I think the shutdown is probably the lamest judge of an OS ever.

[Oqsy]

instant: oh I agree, I was actually making fun of the absurdity of that as a "benchmark".

[microsoft windows]

I'm pretty sure you crashed it, too

How dare you call me Windows 98!

[Oqsy]

Ok, it appears that I'm a total b-fcking n00b on NT4 and I can't even get it on my LAN or internet (through linksys router).  This is going to be a long weekend.

[TexasFlood]

Ok, it appears that I'm a total b-fcking n00b on NT4 and I can't even get it on my LAN or internet (through linksys router).  This is going to be a long weekend.

NT4 was the last version of Windows that really used protected memory to isolate applications from crashing another application or the entire computer.  It was also when Microsoft decided not to license Windows source code to Citrix any longer so Micro$oft could take over some or all of the market citrix has started with winframe.  i googled around a bit and found an NT4 tutorial and this kinda neat little cheatsheet style "manual".

[D-EJ915]

also active directory in NT4 is completely different than it is in 2000 or later so have fun, it's interesting to play around with (I have a few NT4 servers in VM)

[EverythingIBM]

For a site that is full of people who appreciate old keyboards, there is a surprising amount of arrogance regarding new computer hardware.  My P4 is my fastest pc, and I don't even use it all the time.  Unless your a computer illiterate, a gamer, or a graphics designer, there is really no practical reason to buy a new computer any more often than every 7 years or so.  Even today, there isn't much you can't do with a P3.

The only time I seen my P4 begin to show its age was with vector rendering, or PDFs believe it or not. PDFs with scanned pages (giant images) take a fairly longer time to load than on a dual core processor.

For gaming I never noticed anything different really. Mainly relies on 3D cards these days. VOODOO 2!!!

[microsoft windows]

Voodoo 2's too new. Get an original I3D Voodoo.

[Lenny_Nero]

Servers are basically "computers" - there is very little that differs between them and typical desktop machines (rackmount stuff can be tricky, example being C2T connectors to simplify KVM control of many servers but complicates the hell out of standalone use)...

Most of my IBM servers (xSeries) use the CT2 cables and was part of the reason for me getting them, I had the main and 6 jumpers so I got a silly good deal from someone that did not

Win 2000 is still one of the better M$ os'es and the only one I use, tell a lie, I have a C2D box that has XPpro on it to check stuff with but that gets run up a few times a month where as the W2k boxes have 200 plus days up times and are always working.
I also have it running on an old 466 MHz box with 388 MB and that was always faster to do most things over a 1.8~2 GHz P4 box with much more memory. As said big PDF and picture renders do kill it a bit, but for everyday use (that is what the box does) Inet and e-mail sort of stuff it has more power (...cue Tim Taylor) than needed.

[microsoft windows]

My Gateway2000 P5-200 machine handles Internet browsing and E-Mail fine. And it's got a 200Mhz Pentium with 64MB of RAM.

[Oqsy]

I'm at a dead end right now.  I'm trying to get a DVD or CDROM to work, with no dice.  I pulled a unit I *know* is working from my main system, set the jumper to CS just like the CDROM drive that was in there before, seated the IDE cable, and connected power.  I even double-checked the connection of the IDE cable to the MB and everything looks fine.  The drive never even powers up (which made me think an issue with that power cable, but I used the same cable that was attached to the previous CDROM drive.  I've replaced enough IDE drives over the years to know what I'm doing, but something just isn't adding up.  I even tried changing jumper on the drive to master and putting it on the master connector.  I tried putting it on the other, previously unused IDE channel (which is enabled in the bios), still nothing.  The old drive was at least spinning and the LEDs were lighting proving that it at least had power.  This project keeps getting ****tier by the second.

[ch_123]

Did you try to reset the CMOS a few times?

Old Dell computers from the early 2000s had a big problem with that...

[Oqsy]

You mean remove the battery?

[ch_123]

Same effect =P

[Oqsy]

No luck.  I trying resetting the BIOS settings, pulling the battery, swapping the jumper.  I powered it up and let it boot with no battery several times, pulled the power cable and bled the last bit of power out to ensure the BIOS wasn't staying on due to power from the capacitors with the battery out,  the whole shabang.  

This is really strange.  I've had drives that weren't seen by the bios before, but they at least had power, and would respond to pressing the eject button, had leds flicker on power up, etc.  I pulled the power from one of the RAID drives and swapped it with of the power supply cables I had been trying on the DVD drive and the HDD still ran fine, but the DVD drive shows no power.

[Lenny_Nero]

Removing the battery is not the same as resetting the CMOS/BIOS and if done on the box I am using now will kill a large part of the BIOS that is held, but not switched by the jumper. If you have a door to your house why climb in and out thru a window ?

Guess what happens ? you loose all of the IDE and drive placement, boot order information, there is a reason why there is a jumper added at a cost when they could just say pull the battery.

Servers also (well in every case of mine) have a set of dip switches some where on the main board that need to be setup to the environment your going to use them in, the settings of which are often on the case lid or side, they often need to be set to allow new hardware or system config changes, remote lights, OS installs loads of stuff.

[Oqsy]

Lenny...  I tried the CMOS jumper first with no luck before I resorted to messing with the battery.  It's in my last post.  I see no dip switches as you've described anywhere on the main board.  I'll look up some documentation on this board, but it sure would explain a lot if they are there somewhere and I'm just not finding them.

[Oqsy]

Just finished reading the main board manual front to back, and no such dips / jumpers.  The only jumper of any use is the CMOS jumper already discussed, which has a normal, configure, and restore setting.  None of these affect the lack of power to the DVD drive.  I may be overlooking something obvious here...  Is it possible that this main board is not able to run a DVD-Rom?  As a pretty standard ATAPI device I thought it would be automatically detected and run without any issues, but perhaps a bios reflash is in order...  Any thoughts?

[ch_123]

Removing the battery is not the same as resetting the CMOS/BIOS and if done on the box I am using now will kill a large part of the BIOS that is held, but not switched by the jumper. If you have a door to your house why climb in and out thru a window ?

Guess what happens ? you loose all of the IDE and drive placement, boot order information, there is a reason why there is a jumper added at a cost when they could just say pull the battery.

Servers also (well in every case of mine) have a set of dip switches some where on the main board that need to be setup to the environment your going to use them in, the settings of which are often on the case lid or side, they often need to be set to allow new hardware or system config changes, remote lights, OS installs loads of stuff.

Well, the BIOS on just about any system is contained in ROM, with certain variables stored in some volatile memory powered by the battery. So it's hardly as if removing the battery is going to do damage or anything like that, it should just reset to factory defaults.

Unless you have some sort of nonstandard BIOS?

[Oqsy]

This is the standard BIOS from the main board mentioned in the OP.  

ch_123:  any thoughts on the possibility that the DVD-ROM is too new of an ATAPI device for the BIOS to recognize?  Do you see any benefits from this perspective in updating the BIOS via a reflash, or would that be wasting my time?

[ch_123]

That is extraordinarily unlikely... are you sure the drive works? Have you tested it with a different one?

[Oqsy]

Well, it was working immediately before swapping it into this system.  

It's *possible*, but highly unlikely that it died in the process of swapping it out.  I'll try another drive this evening to confirm.  

If that drive turns out to be dead it will be an awfully big PITA of a coincidence.

[ch_123]

I don't suppose this thing supports USB booting?

[Oqsy]

Yes, it does.  I have a 64mb and a 128mb flash drive sitting here on my desk, but I haven't even bothered yet because I don't know what I'd do if I *did* get it to boot from USB.

[ch_123]

Arch has a "Net install" image which may be small enough to fit on your 128MB stick. This pulls the packages off the net.

EDIT: Nope, it's about 160MB. There are Debian images that are like 40MB in size that will do the same job.

Try doing that with Windows 2000...

[Oqsy]

I could try doing that with windows 2000, but I don't have MSW here to walk me through it

[ch_123]

This is the guy who just learned about IP address the hard way yesterday =P

Nah, a Windows installation is so big that even the most extremely cut down disks will still have a few hundred megabytes. With linux, you can just load the kernel, the installer and some network utils and you can install anything from a 40MB disk.

[Oqsy]

I was being facetious when I said I'd try net installing it... I was actually already aware of the arch net installer, I just hadn't really considered it yet, as I want to have a working DVD-ROM or CD-ROM drive on this computer before it will be put into use anyway.

[pex]

Well I've got a Compaq Proliant...

PENTIUM PRO INSIDE BABY

it's like 6U :shocked:

[microsoft windows]

That's a fancy machine there!

[Oqsy]

decided that this box is going to be an XP Pro box for the kids to peck around on and learn to type, play games, etc.  I plan on limited their access to EVERYTHING, and the cool thing about the case is that it can be locked up with a big metal door so curious fingers can't reach drives, power or reset buttons.  

Considering all my options for this... I know there are web sites out there that help create  a customized windows install (some make a new ISO, others just pull services and stuff from your current install).  I might dig around and see what is possible and how to give them the access to do relatively harmless stuff but lock away stuff that they could really screw up.  

Oh, the ages are 3, 5, and 8, so free reign over a computer is not an option at this juncture