[IC] XDA 8Bit - a Dyesub PBT Keyset

[evangs]

Here are new images of everything, including some alpha color packs. all the way at the bottom you can see some examples of the color change

http://imgur.com/a/s8Xhl

[r4wromg]

Here are new images of everything, including some alpha color packs. all the way at the bottom you can see some examples of the color change

http://imgur.com/a/s8Xhl

Really liking those additional colors. Any chance for a 1.5u delete key for HHKB/split backspace in the alt kit and icon mods kit?

[evangs]

Here are new images of everything, including some alpha color packs. all the way at the bottom you can see some examples of the color change

http://imgur.com/a/s8Xhl

Really liking those additional colors. Any chance for a 1.5u delete key for HHKB/split backspace in the alt kit and icon mods kit?

yes, I'll add that

[pomk]

this is the font

Show Image

Now this looks nice!   :thumb:it does not divide opinions too much. Number zero seems to be still the old one.

Have you thought about the consistent pixel size? now the two glyph keys have about 3/5 of the size of alphas, when 1/2 would give the whole set a more coherent look. Below is a picture which better illustrates what I'm after:
20x20 px per key


24x24 px per key



edit: I may have messed up the positioning slightly here, but scaling was the main point of this anyway.
edit2: fixed. The colored boxes are frames just to better show the bounding boxes _around_ the glyphs.
edit3: and if this is not something you would consider, then could you think about including a mono legend kit?

[JDragon]

Any chance of getting "Select" or "Start" keys? Then the full NES controller will be represented. Looks good either way!

Would also be neat to get the A/B keys with red legends to match the NES controller buttons.

[zslane]

Well, with all these <color>-on-white alpha options being added, I really hope the black-on-tan option, as in the original concept, comes back. If this is just becoming an "NES" set then I can safely ignore this thread, but if it becomes all about the 8-bit legend font with different color options (the original one in particular), then I have a reason to continue paying attention.

As for the font, just be sure not to antialias the glyph graphics that you send to (whomever makes XDA). Make sure they are aliased so the individual pixels are easily discernable. I say this only because when making sample graphics there is a tendency to just unthinkingly allow the software to antialias the entire image, which is fine for everything except the legends in this set.

[traktor]

Prefer the original black on beige color scheme. But will probably buy regardless. Looks great!

[evangs]

Well, with all these <color>-on-white alpha options being added, I really hope the black-on-tan option, as in the original concept, comes back. If this is just becoming an "NES" set then I can safely ignore this thread, but if it becomes all about the 8-bit legend font with different color options (the original one in particular), then I have a reason to continue paying attention.

As for the font, just be sure not to antialias the glyph graphics that you send to (whomever makes XDA). Make sure they are aliased so the individual pixels are easily discernable. I say this only because when making sample graphics there is a tendency to just unthinkingly allow the software to antialias the entire image, which is fine for everything except the legends in this set.

That's doable, the only reason I didn't do it in the latest renders was that the spacebars all need to be included as well. Are you ok with the mod colors staying the new gray and just have the black/beige alphas?

EDIT: there should not be an issue with aliasing, I saved everything as SVGs and they should be able to scale up as much as we need.

[evangs]

this is the font

Show Image

Now this looks nice!   :thumb:it does not divide opinions too much. Number zero seems to be still the old one.

Have you thought about the consistent pixel size? now the two glyph keys have about 3/5 of the size of alphas, when 1/2 would give the whole set a more coherent look. Below is a picture which better illustrates what I'm after:
20x20 px per key
(Attachment Link)

24x24 px per key
(Attachment Link)


edit: I may have messed up the positioning slightly here, but scaling was the main point of this anyway.
edit2: fixed. The colored boxes are frames just to better show the bounding boxes _around_ the glyphs.
edit3: and if this is not something you would consider, then could you think about including a mono legend kit?

all the alphas are 7x7 and the special characters are 8x8. part of the issue is the limited scaling options in KLE.

[pomk]

this is the font

Show Image

Now this looks nice!   :thumb:it does not divide opinions too much. Number zero seems to be still the old one.

Have you thought about the consistent pixel size? now the two glyph keys have about 3/5 of the size of alphas, when 1/2 would give the whole set a more coherent look. Below is a picture which better illustrates what I'm after:
20x20 px per key
(Attachment Link)

24x24 px per key
(Attachment Link)


edit: I may have messed up the positioning slightly here, but scaling was the main point of this anyway.
edit2: fixed. The colored boxes are frames just to better show the bounding boxes _around_ the glyphs.
edit3: and if this is not something you would consider, then could you think about including a mono legend kit?

all the alphas are 7x7 and the special characters are 8x8. part of the issue is the limited scaling options in KLE.

All of the glyphs are 8x8 thanks to limitations on NES. Whether that 8x8 contains some kerning space on the right or at the top is glyph dependent of course (btw some of the alphas are 8 tall, like Å). I guess you could move the alphas to the right and up by 1 px after scaling to 16x16, as in my example.

Sorry, I did not know you were using KLE, making my critique a bit premature. You will however anyway have to master the graphics with some tool that is actually suited for the task after the kits are set in stone. My pixel alignment / scaling questions and suggestions are mostly just to start the thinking process on how best to achieve a consistent look at that phase. Although these things should have a direct effect, even at this stage, on for example the icon mod and novelties design process, as it will look off if some keys have an apparent pixel grid of 10x10, some 16x16 and others 35x35.

[Oxid1ze]

I'm a big fan of this set. Submitted the IC form, but I'll echo my preferences here:

- I love the kit breakout (having the MiniVan/Roadkit as the base set, and an add-on set for bigger keyboards)
- I prefer the original beige concept
- I prefer the newer (newest) font
- Icon pack is great
- Love the choice to go with XDA

Thanks Evan, keep up the MiniVan/Roadkit specific sets! This will be my third one!

[evangs]

I'm a big fan of this set. Submitted the IC form, but I'll echo my preferences here:

- I love the kit breakout (having the MiniVan/Roadkit as the base set, and an add-on set for bigger keyboards)
- I prefer the original beige concept
- I prefer the newer (newest) font
- Icon pack is great
- Love the choice to go with XDA

Thanks Evan, keep up the MiniVan/Roadkit specific sets! This will be my third one!

I'm working on an alpha kit to give the original color scheme! thanks for your feedback.

[evangs]

this is the font

Show Image

Now this looks nice!   :thumb:it does not divide opinions too much. Number zero seems to be still the old one.

Have you thought about the consistent pixel size? now the two glyph keys have about 3/5 of the size of alphas, when 1/2 would give the whole set a more coherent look. Below is a picture which better illustrates what I'm after:
20x20 px per key
(Attachment Link)

24x24 px per key
(Attachment Link)


edit: I may have messed up the positioning slightly here, but scaling was the main point of this anyway.
edit2: fixed. The colored boxes are frames just to better show the bounding boxes _around_ the glyphs.
edit3: and if this is not something you would consider, then could you think about including a mono legend kit?

all the alphas are 7x7 and the special characters are 8x8. part of the issue is the limited scaling options in KLE.

All of the glyphs are 8x8 thanks to limitations on NES. Whether that 8x8 contains some kerning space on the right or at the top is glyph dependent of course (btw some of the alphas are 8 tall, like Å). I guess you could move the alphas to the right and up by 1 px after scaling to 16x16, as in my example.

Sorry, I did not know you were using KLE, making my critique a bit premature. You will however anyway have to master the graphics with some tool that is actually suited for the task after the kits are set in stone. My pixel alignment / scaling questions and suggestions are mostly just to start the thinking process on how best to achieve a consistent look at that phase. Although these things should have a direct effect, even at this stage, on for example the icon mod and novelties design process, as it will look off if some keys have an apparent pixel grid of 10x10, some 16x16 and others 35x35.

I see what you're saying. I'll scale everything so that they are all using the same dimension.

[evangs]

[Oxid1ze]

[pomk]

Show Image

Looks great!
I'm available should you need help or an additional set of eyes in the mastering/proofing phase.  :thumb:


Now how about an ISO/norde kit?  ;D

[zslane]

Are you ok with the mod colors staying the new gray and just have the black/beige alphas?

Maybe. I'd have to see how they look together in a more photoreal context to say for sure.

That original beige concept, including the brown mods with the red legends was killer. If the "new gray" mods look just as good with the red legends as the original brown mods did, then I would probably be on board.

[atomicus]

I'd love to see this in Cherry Profile (and ISO), but that may be asking too much.

ANSI do existed in cherry profile.

Yeah that's ANSI thought, I need ISO (UK). Not so common unfortunately.

[chuckdee]

I hope  that you go back to the neutral for the base set, and do the colors as separate

[chuckdee]

Level 1-1 (base kit)

Show Image

100% Achievement (104 Kit, pair with base kit to complete 60, TKL, and full size)

Show Image

Caps lock key is missing. Also horrible kit choices, but I guess you want the base for your own keyboards.

Caps lock is found in the base. it's the LOCK key. Also what is wrong with the kits? You didn't make any suggestions. The base kit covers a MiniVan and Roadkit and then by adding a few more keys a full size can be covered. Pretty cool if you ask me

Ah my bad, missed the Lock key.

The base set covers a minuscule share of the market so it feels like a very selfish distribution. If it was adding "a few more keys", then sure, but there are over 40 keys.

Best bet would be alphas/shared keys, 40 modifiers, other modifiers, and numpad. I can put these together tomorrow if you'd like some visual guidance

If he put in the normal arrangements, the price goes up for everyone, which is probably the reason that he did that.  Take a look at pricing on lightcycle.

Lightcycle was DSA which had a really inflated price. Normal arrangements would suit over 99% of the community. It means most people joining this will have a load of spare keys that only suit a tiny percentage of keyboards. Shame my comment was ignored though.

This is DSA, so not sure of what you're saying?

[xondat]

Level 1-1 (base kit)

Show Image

100% Achievement (104 Kit, pair with base kit to complete 60, TKL, and full size)

Show Image

Caps lock key is missing. Also horrible kit choices, but I guess you want the base for your own keyboards.

Caps lock is found in the base. it's the LOCK key. Also what is wrong with the kits? You didn't make any suggestions. The base kit covers a MiniVan and Roadkit and then by adding a few more keys a full size can be covered. Pretty cool if you ask me

Ah my bad, missed the Lock key.

The base set covers a minuscule share of the market so it feels like a very selfish distribution. If it was adding "a few more keys", then sure, but there are over 40 keys.

Best bet would be alphas/shared keys, 40 modifiers, other modifiers, and numpad. I can put these together tomorrow if you'd like some visual guidance

If he put in the normal arrangements, the price goes up for everyone, which is probably the reason that he did that.  Take a look at pricing on lightcycle.

Lightcycle was DSA which had a really inflated price. Normal arrangements would suit over 99% of the community. It means most people joining this will have a load of spare keys that only suit a tiny percentage of keyboards. Shame my comment was ignored though.

This is DSA, so not sure of what you're saying?

It's XDA now.

[pixelpusher]

Now just hold on a tick.  If this is going to be XDA, that could change some things.  I have a feeling the jchan is about to show off some reverse dye subbing in a new set.  Would you consider 5 sided dye subbing to get some sweet color mods?

Also, there have been some other retro sets banging around, and I posted some pics of a set using the NES font.  Maybe we could achieve something along these lines with reverse dye sub??
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87717.msg2376159#msg2376159

[zslane]

The results of the DSA Carbon run looked pretty inconsistent and, frankly, second-rate. I'm not sure evan wants to sign up for that. I say stick with conventional dye-sub. Besides, the dual-gray/dual-brown colorway doesn't really scream out for light legends anyway.

[pomk]

I got a bit exited and tested out how this might look on the actual XDA caps 
(used the pic posted by simonyunhe as the base)

[Vigrith]

The results of the DSA Carbon run looked pretty inconsistent and, frankly, second-rate. I'm not sure evan wants to sign up for that. I say stick with conventional dye-sub. Besides, the dual-gray/dual-brown colorway doesn't really scream out for light legends anyway.

Agreed, I'm all for perfecting dye-sub but I don't think there is any need for that when it comes to a retro set like this.

[chuckdee]

Level 1-1 (base kit)

Show Image

100% Achievement (104 Kit, pair with base kit to complete 60, TKL, and full size)

Show Image

Caps lock key is missing. Also horrible kit choices, but I guess you want the base for your own keyboards.

Caps lock is found in the base. it's the LOCK key. Also what is wrong with the kits? You didn't make any suggestions. The base kit covers a MiniVan and Roadkit and then by adding a few more keys a full size can be covered. Pretty cool if you ask me

Ah my bad, missed the Lock key.

The base set covers a minuscule share of the market so it feels like a very selfish distribution. If it was adding "a few more keys", then sure, but there are over 40 keys.

Best bet would be alphas/shared keys, 40 modifiers, other modifiers, and numpad. I can put these together tomorrow if you'd like some visual guidance

If he put in the normal arrangements, the price goes up for everyone, which is probably the reason that he did that.  Take a look at pricing on lightcycle.

Lightcycle was DSA which had a really inflated price. Normal arrangements would suit over 99% of the community. It means most people joining this will have a load of spare keys that only suit a tiny percentage of keyboards. Shame my comment was ignored though.

This is DSA, so not sure of what you're saying?

It's XDA now.

It is now, and this was DSA in his original planning, which was what you were originally speaking to.  You can't just change the basis of a conversation and expect everyone to follow you.  As Evan hasn't responded to your inquiry, I think I'm going to follow in his footsteps.

[Rob27shred]

Here are new images of everything, including some alpha color packs. all the way at the bottom you can see some examples of the color change

http://imgur.com/a/s8Xhl

Awesome work man! The colors definitely liven up the set, count me in as interested & look to join if this hits GB

[TheCanisDirus]

This is looking even better on XDA.  Digging the new font and color.  Consider me interested!

[evangs]

I completely redrew the font with everything being in the same dimension and I think it really paid off!  Here are shots of the kits and then some board mockups.

[r4wromg]

Here are new images of everything, including some alpha color packs. all the way at the bottom you can see some examples of the color change

http://imgur.com/a/s8Xhl

Really liking those additional colors. Any chance for a 1.5u delete key for HHKB/split backspace in the alt kit and icon mods kit?

yes, I'll add that

New font looks great! Sorry, forgot to mention the alpha colored 1u \| key as well to go along with the split backspace layout; didn't see it in any of the new images.

[evangs]

Here are new images of everything, including some alpha color packs. all the way at the bottom you can see some examples of the color change

http://imgur.com/a/s8Xhl

Really liking those additional colors. Any chance for a 1.5u delete key for HHKB/split backspace in the alt kit and icon mods kit?

yes, I'll add that

New font looks great! Sorry, forgot to mention the alpha colored 1u \| key as well to go along with the split backspace layout; didn't see it in any of the new images.

Thanks I'll get it added

[palindrome]

I noticed you removed the Apple Command key. Will that come back?

[evangs]

I noticed you removed the Apple Command key. Will that come back?

It's been replaced by the NES cartridge

[palindrome]

Interesting. I'd like to have the Apple Command key back. I'm not against the NES key; just would rather have the Apple mods all together. I then could use the NES key somewhere else.

[evangs]

Interesting. I'd like to have the Apple Command key back. I'm not against the NES key; just would rather have the Apple mods all together. I then could use the NES key somewhere else.

I will think about it

[pomk]

I completely redrew the font with everything being in the same dimension and I think it really paid off!  Here are shots of the kits and then some board mockups.

Looks a lot better for the most part! There are still some inconsistencies in the pixel grid sizes (at least Fn, Fn1 & Fn2 vs. the rest of the icon mods). One could also think about how to best draw the icon mods on a general level so that they would seamlessly match with the font used. A play through of megaman 2 might be good for inspiration.

[evangs]

Just a small update, XDA guys are working on some color/quality samples. Once I have those in hand I can look at getting a buy on the calendar.

[superdoedoe]

Looks awesome, But I'm sure as this progresses, it'll get better and better. Just a quick question, how many of the kits would I need to cover a 75%?

This set makes be tempted to get a minivan.

[evangs]

Looks awesome, But I'm sure as this progresses, it'll get better and better. Just a quick question, how many of the kits would I need to cover a 75%?

This set makes be tempted to get a minivan.

Can you link me the layout you have in mind?

[Data]

this is the font

Show Image

Wow, this font is so great. Love what you're doing here, Evan.

[evangs]

this is the font

Show Image

Wow, this font is so great. Love what you're doing here, Evan.

Thanks :D hoping to get the samples soon and show off some photos

[Ail]

Please make this one happen!

[evangs]

Please make this one happen!

Working on samples with XDA guys. Getting colors down and then qa on the dyesub then it should be ready to run!!

[consolation]

If you do this with an Alps mount option, you'll be the hero we need... This is the perfect alps kit.

[jnthnrvs]

Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man.

'Twas a little hard to tell where we stand on kits toward the end of this thread (I'm catching up after been tuned out for a while), so...

Are we still on for ortho support as well as staggered?

[evangs]

Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man.

'Twas a little hard to tell where we stand on kits toward the end of this thread (I'm catching up after been tuned out for a while), so...

Are we still on for ortho support as well as staggered?

Yes, Planck is covered through one of the kits

[consolation]

Any chance of an ErgoDox kit? Maybe recycle some of the equipment pack icons and use icon legends, so EDs aren't stuck with a blank kit again, but aren't forced to use the default mapping; it's a board that tends to be personalised a lot.  With the ErgoDoxen looking rather "game controler-ish" it could be a good canvas to work with. The two unit tall keys would look great with some "game sprite" icons.

[evangs]

Any chance of an ErgoDox kit? Maybe recycle some of the equipment pack icons and use icon legends, so EDs aren't stuck with a blank kit again, but aren't forced to use the default mapping; it's a board that tends to be personalised a lot.  With the ErgoDoxen looking rather "game controler-ish" it could be a good canvas to work with. The two unit tall keys would look great with some "game sprite" icons.

I'll give it a go and see what I come up with.

[bciamny]

hey evan... would you happen to know if black keys are possible in the xda profile? i haven't seen one yet.

[evangs]

hey evan... would you happen to know if black keys are possible in the xda profile? i haven't seen one yet.

It is possible, but for lighter legends on dark keys reverse dyesub is required. It's still somewhat of an experimental process