Making a cheap Model M USB controller

[kishy]

What I may do for the wire header might be to use an old serial port header (with the connector suitable to plug directly into programmer itself) and solder the wires directly to the PCB wherever appropriate, eliminating the pins and need for an adapter...we'll see. Those wires are VERY fine and I'm not sure I can competently solder them without burning them.

RE: 1N4148, I had been looking at schematic.pdf (edit: apparently the old one) as provided earlier in the thread and saw those. That diagram does not include the resistors you mentioned.

Since I've already bought 74HC165s, I should probably keep it consistent with the newest version of the design and go with resistors? Which resistors might those be...I don't see them in the parts list. Edit: whoops, I'm dumb. 8x 20kOhm, I was looking at the wrong copy of schematic.pdf.

Thanks for the help and the patience

Edit: something just occurred to me...anyone building one for an old-style 122 is not actually going to need a USB jack, unless you mod the case quite a bit. You can directly solder the wires in place from a USB cable, or if you use a USB plug you can put it inside the case without the ability to unplug it.

[kishy]

Would 22 kilo ohm resistors work instead of 20?

If not, will the design still function properly using diodes as originally shown?

[Specter_57]

Kishy:
"Would 22 kilo ohm resistors work instead of 20?"

Yes they will.  There is no practical difference here...and values larger and smaller will work. If you already have them...use them.

You should be safe with 22K resistors

Edit.  For fun, take a look at your controller card.  The original IBM board used 20K and 30K pull-up and -down resistors for the keyboard matrix inputs.

..........
Spec57

....end

[kishy]

Hmmm...thing is, I have the option of buying either 22K resistors or the 1N4148 diodes...I have neither yet. From a purely price-based perspective the diodes look marginally better (being 1 cent cheaper each, lol), but for the sake of staying with the current schematic I'll get the resistors.

Good to know the 22s will work. Think I'll nab those (or at least add to cart).

Edit: info for those who are interested:

SDL connectors were an AMP/now Tyco product (why is this important? because it shows IBM favoured AMP for connectors)
While browsing around Tyco's site I'm seeing FFC connectors that look far more similar to the original IBM ones (the Molex ones are functionally equivalent but look different).

Check out Tyco P/N 7-520355-0. It's the 20-pin as seen in a 122-key.

[Mnemonix]

Edit: something just occurred to me...anyone building one for an old-style 122 is not actually going to need a USB jack, unless you mod the case quite a bit. You can directly solder the wires in place from a USB cable, or if you use a USB plug you can put it inside the case without the ability to unplug it.

So there is no big enough hole for a full-size USB jack? Bummer. Maybe a mini USB connector would be small enough.

You could also make a USB rat tail instead of a long fixed cable, i.e., a very short cable looking out of the case with some USB connector at its end. I wouldn't solder that cable directly to the controller, but connect it to 4 jumper pins (otherwise you couldn't remove the controller from the keyboard anymore).

Would 22 kilo ohm resistors work instead of 20?

If not, will the design still function properly using diodes as originally shown?

As Specter_57 mentioned already, it doesn't really matter whether they are 20k or 22k. I'll change them to 22k in the schematic because those are in the E12 series, thus more common. A compact part such as Mouser's 71-CSC09A01-22K would save you quite some space.

Please forget the old design with diodes and 74HC164 register. It requires a different firmware, which I have removed from the source tree already. I guess no one has ever built this circuit anyway, so there's no point to support it any longer.

Check out Tyco P/N 7-520355-0. It's the 20-pin as seen in a 122-key.

Interesting. Get these to stay true!

[Specter_57]

Kishy.

Your 122key terminal board...turn it over, look at the back.

On the right-hand side, toward the top of the board, you will see a small rectangular opening with (in my three boards) a plastic tab, which can easily be removed...or left in place and used to mount the connector.

You can mount your socket inside at this point...maybe have to do some small amount of mechanical work inside, but that is a possible location.
When the boards feet are up, should be no problem with angling issues.

Consider using "Shapelock" or "Friendly Plastic"  for the mechanical mounting work if not using that plug I mentioned above.

Just a thought.

.............
Spec 57




.end

[kishy]

So there is no big enough hole for a full-size USB jack? Bummer. Maybe a mini USB connector would be small enough.

You could also make a USB rat tail instead of a long fixed cable, i.e., a very short cable looking out of the case with some USB connector at its end. I wouldn't solder that cable directly to the controller, but connect it to 4 jumper pins (otherwise you couldn't remove the controller from the keyboard anymore).

Yeah, the cord is not detachable on them, so there's no spot for a jack of any kind. Just a small round hole that the cord goes through.



Hole is 5mm wide, L-R as in this photo. It's approximately that in height also. Top is flat, remainder is rounded (like a 'U' with a line across the top).

A mini jack would presumably fit (if not, drilling out the hole wider would make it fit) but the layout in the case would make it kind of not so good. Good point about a pin header, though I would in fact still be able to remove it from the keyboard (the cord would just come with it).

As Specter_57 mentioned already, it doesn't really matter whether they are 20k or 22k. I'll change them to 22k in the schematic because those are in the E12 series, thus more common. A compact part such as Mouser's 71-CSC09A01-22K would save you quite some space.

Please forget the old design with diodes and 74HC164 register. It requires a different firmware, which I have removed from the source tree already. I guess no one has ever built this circuit anyway, so there's no point to support it any longer.

With regards to the Mouser part you suggested, I don't actually know how to use one, nor can I visualize how to fit it into the circuit.

Alright, no diodes and no 74HC164 (I've already bought 74HC165s, just wasn't sure on the diodes, if they'd make a difference).

Kishy.

Your 122key terminal board...turn it over, look at the back.

On the right-hand side, toward the top of the board, you will see a small rectangular opening with (in my three boards) a plastic tab, which can easily be removed...or left in place and used to mount the connector.

You can mount your socket inside at this point...maybe have to do some small amount of mechanical work inside, but that is a possible location.
When the boards feet are up, should be no problem with angling issues.

Consider using "Shapelock" or "Friendly Plastic"  for the mechanical mounting work if not using that plug I mentioned above.

Just a thought.

.............
Spec 57

.end

Aha, but you see, there's no clearance under the keyboard to run a cord or have the connector sticking out. It's not physically possible to use the keyboard in the raised position (that is, with the feet lowered) because it makes it both a) not fit in my desk and b) very uncomfortable to use.

To show what you mean to people who don't know, it's the small pop-out panel visible here:



Good thinking of course, but not feasible here:



ShapeLock...website looks Unicompy, but wow, that's a neat concept!

I would, ultimately, be OK with having a normal 'B' socket on the controller board, connecting a normal 'B' cable to it, then closing up the keyboard with that inside...if anything, the presence of the molded plug on the cable would act as a strain relief against the case. Either that or some sort of pin connector, but I do already have the USB sockets on their way to me so I'll just do that I think.

[Specter_57]

Ha. Talk about assumptions...

I have all the space I need on my desktop, and  will use the board with the feet extended.

And the "B" type plug you mentioned could be mounted at the cord opening, but would require some mounting work....quite minor it appears.

Me, not so concerned with keeping the board "stock" in appearance, mechanical modding is ok with me if necessary.

When I eventually get something built...I"ll actualy be using an RJ-45 plug and standard straight-through CAT5 or 5e cable. (I have my reasons...)
.........

And ever since I discovered Shapelock/Friendly Plastic, been toying with the idea of, to make a joke of another thread title...."Capping" myself (now...there's another thread possibility in itself....)....sighhh...so many project interests...so little time...

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Spec_57

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[kishy]

Alrighty...everything except the stripboard is either here or on its way. Stripboard is difficult...can't seem to find reasonable pricing or acceptable products online and I'm having no luck finding a local supplier for such a thing. Rather frustrating.

[Mnemonix]

Show Image

So the cord can be lifted from the hole when the case is open. No problem with fixed cables then. I imagined that the hole was a "closed" hole, requiring you to pull the cord through it in full length.

With regards to the Mouser part you suggested, I don't actually know how to use one, nor can I visualize how to fit it into the circuit.

The part contains 8 individual resistors in a single package. There are 9 pins. Pin 1 is a common connection to one of each resistor's terminals. The other pins go to the other terminal of the individual resistors.

Hm. Here's a crappy picture:

Code: [Select]


1 --------+
          |
2 ---R1---+
          |
3 ---R2---+
          |
4 ---R3---+
          |
5 ---R4---+
          |
6 ---R5---+
          |
7 ---R6---+
          |
8 ---R7---+
          |
9 ---R8---+


For the keyboard controller, you would connect pin 1 to VCC, thus connecting all resistors to VCC as shown in the schematic. Pins 2 through 9 would go to the column lines.

Alrighty...everything except the stripboard is either here or on its way. Stripboard is difficult...can't seem to find reasonable pricing or acceptable products online and I'm having no luck finding a local supplier for such a thing. Rather frustrating.

I've paid 3.90 Euros for a good 160x100 mm stripboard from a German supplier, if this is of any help for you. Local store is asking for 4.90 Euros, IIRC.

You can also try perfboard if it's cheaper, but personally I don't like working with that. Or use cardboard. :)

[kishy]

Argh, that would have been easier! Could have put it parallel to the 8-position FFC header.

Oh well.

Cardboard...interesting. Very interesting. Tempting even.

[Specter_57]

If you decide to give in to temptation and use cardboard...I would suggest using some corrugated cardboard from an old box.

Works rather well...better than you might expect.

I know...I've built circuits with it before.

Not too pretty, but effective.

........
Spec_57


....end

[kishy]

Will certainly give consideration to it for future projects, but a very generous member has privately offered to send me the needed stripboards

Gotta love people around here.

[sethstorm]

Edit: something just occurred to me...anyone building one for an old-style 122 is not actually going to need a USB jack, unless you mod the case quite a bit. You can directly solder the wires in place from a USB cable, or if you use a USB plug you can put it inside the case without the ability to unplug it.

To bring up a concern in the appropriate thread about anyone attempting this on a Model F 122-key keyboard:
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=148964&postcount=10

How does the cable attach to the keyboard controller?

Soldered ribbon cable, or a more rigid version that was available in the 80s.  As soon as I saw that, I was not going to open it up any further.

If you want to do this to a Model F terminal keyboard, there is that issue since it is not merely a membrane, but a rigid ribbon between two circuit boards.

[kishy]

There's more to it than that, in fact...because the F design relies on a capacitive switch the controller is quite different if I'm to understand this stuff correctly. It's been mentioned here that this should only be expected to work for Model M type boards.

[trievalot]

Anyone here want to make these and sell in the classifieds section?
Im sure if we got a few out there, we would start seeing USB Model Ms on ebay

[sethstorm]

There's more to it than that, in fact...because the F design relies on a capacitive switch the controller is quite different if I'm to understand this stuff correctly. It's been mentioned here that this should only be expected to work for Model M type boards.

But as I take it, the Model M ones are fine? Interesting if that's the case.  I already need to do a proper berg strip rework to the Model M one that I have -

The only downside is that you still have to either remap the layout or deal with the source code.  The question is then, can one do a multiple key-to-one map with it?

[Mnemonix]

Anyone here want to make these and sell in the classifieds section?
Im sure if we got a few out there, we would start seeing USB Model Ms on ebay

I'd love to see professionally manufactured PCBs for the Model M controller, especially if they fit into both the 1391401 and the Mini. If anyone can do this, please go ahead!

The market for terminal keyboard controllers is probably too small, however, but who knows?

Concerning the V-USB license, it seems like they are only asking for a fee if their code is used in a closed source project--otherwise the terms of the GPL apply. Keyboard Upgrade is not and never will be closed source, so it seems possible to sell PCBs with pre-programmed AVRs with no license fees involved. If not, it is always possible to switch over to a USB-enabled AVR.

But as I take it, the Model M ones are fine? Interesting if that's the case.

Yes, any keyboard with conductive switches can, in theory, be supported. It's only a matter of figuring out the keyboard matrix to get the firmware going. Whether or not it would be easy to build the hardware, to fit it into the case, and to connect it to the keyboard matrix is a different question. In case of the 1391401 it's rather easy, but next to impossible in super-slim keyboards (unless you'd put the controller into an external case).

The Model F requires additional circuitry, but I haven't really looked into this yet. I got an XT Model F from meltie which I can do some experiments with, but unfortunately I don't have the time for this at the moment.

The only downside is that you still have to either remap the layout or deal with the source code.  The question is then, can one do a multiple key-to-one map with it?

Use the source, Luke.
It is definitely possible to implement extended macro capabilities, but, just like PS/2 output support, I simply have no personal use for it. Macros are therefore low-priority for me (but surely higher than PS/2).

However, if anyone wants to implement this, I'd be happy to pick up contributed code and add it to the firmware. It would probably require some external EEPROM chip such as the AT24C512B because the AVR's internal EEPROM is rather small (and used for storing key maps and basic config).

[kishy]

Regarding running out of space, could we move up to a larger capacity 16MHz Atmel AVR (for example ATmega128)?

If it's the same except for the nonvolatile storage then we're looking at an easy upgrade path without additional hardware added or significant code changes (I think).

[Mnemonix]

Regarding running out of space, could we move up to a larger capacity 16MHz Atmel AVR (for example ATmega128)?

If it's the same except for the nonvolatile storage then we're looking at an easy upgrade path without additional hardware added or significant code changes (I think).

In principle, yes. The ATmega128 has 4 kB EEPROM instead of only 1 kB on the ATmega32 (both can operate at 16 MHz, however). I'm pretty sure that the code would compile for the ATmega128 with no changes needed. The extra 3 kB could then be used for storing macros. We could also use 0.5 kB for key maps and 0.5 kB for macros on the ATmega32, if that's enough.

The problem is that the ATmega128 (and ATmega64) is not available as DIP version, but only in TQFP and MLF package. You CAN solder TQFP chips, but it's more challenging than DIP and is probably best done on an etched PCB. So, for a professional version, why not? It's one option.

[kishy]

MLF looks fairly similar to a PLCC...and I think you can find adapters between PLCC and DIP, or at least fabricate one. Presumably that would work if done correctly.

[sethstorm]

Further, looking at the schematics for the 122-key terminal board, it still has a usb jack as an endpoint.  While that might work for some boards, it might serve better to terminate that to a header.  Otherwise it doesn't look out of place.

[InSanCen]

I have some contacts in the PCB design/manufacture industry in the UK. One in particular is a specialist in low-volume runs. No promises whatsoever (Cost is likely to be prohibitive, even at "mates rates"), but I'll certainly ask around. I assume someone can supply Gerber files if it looks feasible?

[DreymaR]

The shift mapping can be applied independently already since the script that processes the matrix definitions and key mappings can handle multiple map files. At least with Colemak it will work because the affected keys are not part of the Colemak mapping.
It doesn't work for Dvorak at the moment because the script simply assumes that all mappings are independent (otherwise the order in which the map files are passed to the script would become important). I'll think about a good solution.

Hope you come up with one! Now I'm looking into ergonomic mods like moving some keys to the middle of the board for better hand separation (the 'Wide' mod) and if the mappings could be done in several layers you could do a smörgåsbord of ZXCVB, Wide and whatever ergonomic mod you fell for - and then the layout itself (QWERTY/Tarmak/Colemak/Dvorak/what-have-you) on top of those. Basically, some mappings like the ergonomic ones are inherently scancode-to-scancode mappings - whereas the layout mappings themselves are inherently more scancode-to-systemcode(vkey to be accurate but that's not coming from the keyboard).

[Mnemonix]

I have some contacts in the PCB design/manufacture industry in the UK. One in particular is a specialist in low-volume runs. No promises whatsoever (Cost is likely to be prohibitive, even at "mates rates"), but I'll certainly ask around. I assume someone can supply Gerber files if it looks feasible?

KiCad can produce Gerber files, but we need a PCB layout first. At the moment there's only the schematic, and maybe the Dulcimer PCB design as a starting point.

Are you thinking of just the PCB or fully assembled boards? I mean, if one of the manufacturers could fit the components for us, then it would make sense to design an SMD version, which is probably cheaper (smaller, fewer drill holes, cheaper components).

Hope you come up with one!

Well, I found a solution. It was simple and it works. Keys can be re-mapped multiple times now, so that Dvorak+ErgoShift yields a key map with the 6 bottom-left keys shifted. You can even apply the ergo-shift mapping several times, leading to a shift by multiple positions.

[kishy]

How many typical LEDs could be driven by this controller?

I ask because my backlight-to-represent-lock-status may involve as many as 4 LEDs per lock key depending on how this works out. If a single LED is already near the max amount available then I'd want to just keep it as one.

[Specter_57]

Kishy...

Look for super-high efficiency LEDs...I got hold of one by mistake when I bought a bunch of ordinarry greens...this one is so bright that I had to use a *50K* limiting resistor on a 5v source! and it was still very bright.

Of course...you could simply use a transistor to increase the drive for the LEDs. Very simple and cheap.

.......
Spec_57


...end

[Mnemonix]

How many typical LEDs could be driven by this controller?

Depends on the values of the series resistors which are limiting the current going through the LEDs.

The absolute maximum DC current per I/O port allowed is 40 mA, but that's not for regular operation. I can't find a clearly stated limit in the datasheet, but they mention 20 mA in a footnote ("Although each I/O port can sink more than the test conditions (20 mA at Vcc = 5V, 10 mA at Vcc = 3V)..."). They also say this about the PDIP package versions:

1] The sum of all IOL, for all ports, should not exceed 200 mA.
2] The sum of all IOL, for port A0 - A7, should not exceed 100 mA.
3] The sum of all IOL, for ports B0 - B7,C0 - C7, D0 - D7 and XTAL2, should not exceed 100 mA.

So, for 12 LEDs you'd need to use large enough resistors to limit the maximum total current so not to exceed these limits.

[Mnemonix]

Look for super-high efficiency LEDs...

Oh, right. Problem solved.

[Specter_57]

..
Kishy, (and other interested parties) here is a Canadian source posted on EBay.ca.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/50-pcs-3mm-Green-LED-T1-Super-Bright-40mA-2-6V-140mW_W0QQitemZ290341657725QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_210?hash=item4399b61c7d

50 pieces - 3mm super-bright green LEDs.- T-1
BIN $2.06  Shipping $3.11 both in Cdn peseos

or if you prefer "hyper-bright" Orange, same prices same quantity available too.

Just casually surfing for super-bright LEDs...no connection to the vendor.

..........
Spec_57



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[kishy]

The idea would be LED backlighting for the lock keys (creating a red outline around the area of the key) while the lock was enabled...so basically the exact same functionality as normal lock LEDs, just positioned differently.

My eventual, down-the-road goal for the keyboard as a whole would be a black case with silver trim/highlights, perhaps with blue backlighting on the whole board with red backlighting for the lock keys. I'm content with only accomplishing the last one though, since it's easy.

[Xuan]

IMO you're wasting your time thinking about lock leds, no one uses caps or scroll locks.
And num lock should always be turned on, that's the purpose of the numpad, to punch numbers, you've proper navi keys two inches to the left.

[kishy]

Speak for yourself...I use them both regularly (yes, even scroll, though not for its original purpose).

Keep in mind the keyboard in question is exclusively used on a computer that's used exclusively for gaming. In that environment, keys used for toggling assorted things are best accompanied by a visual indicator.

Haven't used scroll for anything yet since switching to this kb on account of there being no LED to indicate its status, so there's been no point in figuring out what I mapped it to.

[DreymaR]

The lock states are indeed in use and useful - even if their original use may have abandoned them in some cases. So I'm for them too.

[kishy]

Though not particularly useful for this project, it should be noted that Tyco P/N 1-1761185-2 is a suitable replacement SDL socket for Model M controllers.

Dumb idea to use one for this particular controller because you could connect a PS/2 cable and blow it up...







Oh, and about half of my needed parts have arrived. Getting closer...

[InSanCen]

KiCad can produce Gerber files, but we need a PCB layout first. At the moment there's only the schematic, and maybe the Dulcimer PCB design as a starting point.

Are you thinking of just the PCB or fully assembled boards? I mean, if one of the manufacturers could fit the components for us, then it would make sense to design an SMD version, which is probably cheaper (smaller, fewer drill holes, cheaper components).

Ok, having had a word, it's a "suck it and see".

I am owed a favour or two from the Low Volume specialist (Built his servers at a low cost), and he's agreed to do a small (10pcs) run to see how things pan out. He can do SMD component placement and from having a look at the schematic, says's it's not a problem apart from cost. It get's much more acceptable at >100 pcs. I have no firm figures yet, but when we get something sorted out I will yell. I suspect we would need to coordinate a "Group Buy" to get some decent prices.

In the meantime, my order is in at RS for a Crystal's and ATMega32's. I have four boards sitting here just gagging for this mod.

[clee]

That would rule! I would be down for at least 5 boards myself.

[Specter_57]

..

I will eventually get around to building this thing for my 122key Terminal "M"s, as part of what will likely be a "multi-mod" affair when all is said and done...and for me I know it will be standard PDIP devices, either on my own made circuit board (most likely...)...or maybe perf-board and wirewrap..

InSanCen -- But would still be interested in the circuit boards you mentioned, I am curious as to what the final cost of one would be.
..........
Spec57

[sethstorm]

Ok, having had a word, it's a "suck it and see".

I am owed a favour or two from the Low Volume specialist (Built his servers at a low cost), and he's agreed to do a small (10pcs) run to see how things pan out. He can do SMD component placement and from having a look at the schematic, says's it's not a problem apart from cost. It get's much more acceptable at >100 pcs. I have no firm figures yet, but when we get something sorted out I will yell. I suspect we would need to coordinate a "Group Buy" to get some decent prices.

In the meantime, my order is in at RS for a Crystal's and ATMega32's. I have four boards sitting here just gagging for this mod.

If you were on the US side of the pond, I'd have confirmed for 2 of the 122-key ones(unless shipping to the US is reasonable).

[clee]

Oh, hrm. I'm in California. If Americans can't chip in, then count me out. :/

[kishy]

Shipping from there to here is not much more than between US-Canada depending on packaging and service used. The cost of the part itself would be substantially higher...probably approximately $35+ each on an order of 100? Obviously that's a guess, you'd be best to wait for a quote from the guy who'd be doing it.

I've got my programmer, AVRs, crystals, FFC connectors, 68 ohm resistors, USB jacks, and pin headers...everything else is presently shipping. Looks like I'll have the parts in time for March break so there'll be a week of uninterrupted electronics geek time.

[InSanCen]

I've had another chat this morning.

He would be marketing these himself, and to GH member's only, at a cost price until the first run is used up. He will get an idea if this is a marketable, if niche, product. I suspect that the initial run (~100) will be the bulk of the orders.

It's not going to happen for a while, as he is Flat-out with work at the moment (considering the economy sucks balls, that is a rarity, and his paid work will naturally take priority). He will give me a heads-up and contact details. He will confirm pricing at the same time.

He's going to have a look at my finished product, along with an original controller board. He's not sure if SMD or Manual placement will work out cheaper (Doint things the SMD route will interrupt his line, and require programming of the line for this board, he doesn't do too much with MicroProcessors despite having the capability to handle even heavy duty stuff). I've said as long as it fits and works, it's all good, though a drop-in replacement for the original would be great. Given the above, and the fact that they will need manual finishing even if done SMD (Berg and Membrane connector, LED's), the Manual route looks likely at the moment.

WRT import/export to other countries, that's fine. All the parts and processes used are ROHS compliant, and he's happy to ship overseas at cost. This would be done in batches though, he doesn't want to have to package up stuff every 5 minutes or so.

Any other Questions as he will be contactable for the rest of the day before dissapearing to warmer climate(s) for a week or so.

[sethstorm]

Shipping from there to here is not much more than between US-Canada depending on packaging and service used. The cost of the part itself would be substantially higher...probably approximately $35+ each on an order of 100? Obviously that's a guess, you'd be best to wait for a quote from the guy who'd be doing it.

Then it should be fine.  It'd make my Terminal M board a bit easier to justify using.  If it's the LED version, it just means I'd be making provisions for the lights on the case, as there is room to do it on the right side.

He would be marketing these himself, and to GH member's only, at a cost price until the first run is used up. He will get an idea if this is a marketable, if niche, product. I suspect that the initial run (~100) will be the bulk of the orders.

It's not going to happen for a while, as he is Flat-out with work at the moment (considering the economy sucks balls, that is a rarity, and his paid work will naturally take priority). He will give me a heads-up and contact details. He will confirm pricing at the same time.

He's going to have a look at my finished product, along with an original controller board. He's not sure if SMD or Manual placement will work out cheaper (Doint things the SMD route will interrupt his line, and require programming of the line for this board, he doesn't do too much with MicroProcessors despite having the capability to handle even heavy duty stuff). I've said as long as it fits and works, it's all good, though a drop-in replacement for the original would be great. Given the above, and the fact that they will need manual finishing even if done SMD (Berg and Membrane connector, LED's), the Manual route looks likely at the moment.

WRT import/export to other countries, that's fine. All the parts and processes used are ROHS compliant, and he's happy to ship overseas at cost. This would be done in batches though, he doesn't want to have to package up stuff every 5 minutes or so.

No problem with that.  Given that this is probably going to be the GH's AIKON, I'm fine with waiting for batches.

[kishy]

Whoa, AIKON, forgot about that.

insancen, fancy asking your connection about throwing together AIKONs too? That's another open source project as I understand it so all needed docs are floating around online.

sethstorm, keep in mind you can build your own if so equipped and inclined...I will be. I'd actually be willing to assemble them for other people if mine end up being successful (but not if insancen can get us professional assembly, total cost after shipping stuff wouldn't make sense)

Relevant side note: I probably wouldn't be in on one of the professionally assembled ones since I am building two already.

[InSanCen]

I would ask, but my favors are dried up now :-(

I'm not sure if this would work with a Terminal M, unless you flashed another keymap onto it, due to the extra keys. It will be flashed with US ANSI QWERTY (Decision based on numbers in use, I actually prefer ISO). You can flash your own as intended as it will still have the relevant pins on the board (A few pennies cost difference in the batch size we are talking about).

As I have said, I will need to provide Gerber files, though he will run a Manual check over the finished (working) article that I make for comparison purposes. I will get  these done, but time is a constraint on my end, so if someone has them, or fancies doing them, then feel free. It doesn't need to be done *now* but they do need to be ready for when he can run these boards off.

[kishy]

Oh that's right, the 122s need a slightly different design. I keep forgetting the controller is by default for 'normal' Model Ms...for me they only apply to the 122s so that's all I focus on when I talk about them.

So yeah, sethstorm, you'd be building your own for a 122 regardless of what insancen can arrange.

[sethstorm]

Oh that's right, the 122s need a slightly different design. I keep forgetting the controller is by default for 'normal' Model Ms...for me they only apply to the 122s so that's all I focus on when I talk about them.

So yeah, sethstorm, you'd be building your own for a 122 regardless of what insancen can arrange.

Hmm. So much for a properly done board.  While I be able to put the parts together, the programmer bits are what would be the stumbling block.

What page had the parts list for it?  I figure they're slightly different, just enough that the parts for the 122 board are different than the Model M ones are.

[InSanCen]

Hmm. So much for a properly done board.  While I be able to put the parts together, the programmer bits are what would be the stumbling block.

What page had the parts list for it?  I figure they're slightly different, just enough that the parts for the 122 board are different than the Model M ones are.

Your matrix may (Likely) be different too. I haven't got a Terminal board to pull apart and look, sorry.

[Mnemonix]

He would be marketing these himself, and to GH member's only, at a cost price until the first run is used up. He will get an idea if this is a marketable, if niche, product. I suspect that the initial run (~100) will be the bulk of the orders.

That's brilliant! :happy:
I'd even buy one or more (depending on price) just to get a professional PCB.

He's not sure if SMD or Manual placement will work out cheaper (Doint things the SMD route will interrupt his line, and require programming of the line for this board, he doesn't do too much with MicroProcessors despite having the capability to handle even heavy duty stuff). I've said as long as it fits and works, it's all good, though a drop-in replacement for the original would be great. Given the above, and the fact that they will need manual finishing even if done SMD (Berg and Membrane connector, LED's), the Manual route looks likely at the moment.

Manual finishing doesn't sound bad at all, as long as all drill holes are prepared. I think the most important thing would be to program the MCU--at least with a boot loader--before shipping since most people won't have a suitable programmer at hand. Soldering a few connectors should be easy enough for most people, or they could ask someone else to do the soldering for them.

insancen, fancy asking your connection about throwing together AIKONs too? That's another open source project as I understand it so all needed docs are floating around online.

AIKON's not exactly open source. The circuits are available, and firmware images too, but the source code for firmware and user land tools are closed source. The controller can only be configured on Windows and there's no way to change this, which is rendering it, regrettably, useless for me.

On the other hand, making AIKON clones could be more lucrative because AIKON is older, thus better known, than the controller discussed here (which doesn't even have a real name yet :wink:), and its firmware is not limited to be used in a 1391401 (but also couldn't support the 20x8 terminal keyboard matrix).

FWIW, I would prefer a proper 1391401 replacement controller that also fits into a Mini, including all connectors, rather than an AIKON clone.

What page had the parts list for it?  I figure they're slightly different, just enough that the parts for the 122 board are different than the Model M ones are.

There is no complete list yet. It's not much different from the Model M list for the simple version w/o LEDs, though: just use a 20-pin connector instead of the 16-pin, and omit the three 470 Ohm resistors and the 4-pin connector. For the LED version, replace the 16-pin connector with a 20-pin, and add one 74HC165 IC and eight 22k resistors.

Maybe I should extend the main article so to mention terminal keyboards and to include the relevant parts lists...

[Specter_57]

..

InSenCen  you said, in reference to 122key terminal boards:
"Your matrix may (Likely) be different too. I haven't got a Terminal board to pull apart and look, sorry."

To jog your memory...I have traced out the row-column matrix of my 1390702 122key terminal boards, and Ripster has photos of a Boscom 122key membranes.

This thread, page 3, post #36 (Ripster) #40 (Me).


:brick:

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Spec57