Author Topic: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards  (Read 58844 times)

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Offline PRkeys

  • Posts: 55
  • Location: US
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #250 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 15:54:23 »
This is not an investment. You are just buying one or multiple sets of keycaps from $50 to $25 each. There is no expectation of profit, equity or any other type of ownership in this. The best example of this is Oculus. Kickstarter helped get them started and some years later they sold their company to FB for 2 billion dollars.

That is different to say we are supporting Evan, Arhipio and team in their effort. If you are not comfortable with that model then this is not the project for you to support.

You talk about the 'designers' of color sets as if they were some sort of artists living of their color combinations. No one owns this stuff. Just like KBDFans copied The Van's BananaSplit keyboard idea at a low price point and killed the project as they couldn't compete.

Offline iNViSiBiLiTi

  • Posts: 214
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #251 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:00:48 »
This is not an investment. You are just buying one or multiple sets of keycaps from $50 to $25 each. There is no expectation of profit, equity or any other type of ownership in this. The best example of this is Oculus. Kickstarter helped get them started and some years later they sold their company to FB for 2 billion dollars.

That is different to say we are supporting Evan, Arhipio and team in their effort. If you are not comfortable with that model then this is not the project for you to support.

You talk about the 'designers' of color sets as if they were some sort of artists living of their color combinations. No one owns this stuff. Just like KBDFans copied The Van's BananaSplit keyboard idea at a low price point and killed the project as they couldn't compete.

How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)?  You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...
60%: Prophet, GSKT-00 x2, Poly GSKT-00-Z, Weaven, Sangeo60, Unikorn R2.1, Ciel60

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Offline chuckdee

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Offline chuckdee

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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #253 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:05:19 »
This is not an investment. You are just buying one or multiple sets of keycaps from $50 to $25 each. There is no expectation of profit, equity or any other type of ownership in this. The best example of this is Oculus. Kickstarter helped get them started and some years later they sold their company to FB for 2 billion dollars.

That is different to say we are supporting Evan, Arhipio and team in their effort. If you are not comfortable with that model then this is not the project for you to support.

You talk about the 'designers' of color sets as if they were some sort of artists living of their color combinations. No one owns this stuff. Just like KBDFans copied The Van's BananaSplit keyboard idea at a low price point and killed the project as they couldn't compete.

How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)?  You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...

I answered that above.  It's consumption.  And the funds from the consumption are buying the means to produce.

Offline iNViSiBiLiTi

  • Posts: 214
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #254 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:08:35 »
This is not an investment. You are just buying one or multiple sets of keycaps from $50 to $25 each. There is no expectation of profit, equity or any other type of ownership in this. The best example of this is Oculus. Kickstarter helped get them started and some years later they sold their company to FB for 2 billion dollars.

That is different to say we are supporting Evan, Arhipio and team in their effort. If you are not comfortable with that model then this is not the project for you to support.

You talk about the 'designers' of color sets as if they were some sort of artists living of their color combinations. No one owns this stuff. Just like KBDFans copied The Van's BananaSplit keyboard idea at a low price point and killed the project as they couldn't compete.

How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)?  You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...

I answered that above.  It's consumption.  And the funds from the consumption are buying the means to produce.

So it's both... we're paying for tooling, machines, and keycaps...
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:10:09 by iNViSiBiLiTi »
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Offline elfick

  • Posts: 262
  • Can I get Colemak and a side of fries with that?
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #255 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:11:34 »
How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)?  You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...
I'll take a slightly different perspective from Chuckdee...
There is an investment, but you (generically... that is the kickstarter supporter) aren't the investor. Evan is the investor.
Evan is raising money for the investment by selling a product.
The product that the kickstarter supporter is buying just happens to be produced on the product of Evan's investment.

Offline ptiede

  • Posts: 267
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #256 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:12:31 »
This is not an investment. You are just buying one or multiple sets of keycaps from $50 to $25 each. There is no expectation of profit, equity or any other type of ownership in this. The best example of this is Oculus. Kickstarter helped get them started and some years later they sold their company to FB for 2 billion dollars.

That is different to say we are supporting Evan, Arhipio and team in their effort. If you are not comfortable with that model then this is not the project for you to support.

You talk about the 'designers' of color sets as if they were some sort of artists living of their color combinations. No one owns this stuff. Just like KBDFans copied The Van's BananaSplit keyboard idea at a low price point and killed the project as they couldn't compete.

How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)?  You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...

This definitely isn't an investment on our parts. If it was we would be putting up capital not to expect a product at the end, but expecting a return on investment such as a stake in the company or a share of profits.

Offline hansichen

  • Posts: 210
  • Location: Germany
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #257 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:13:06 »
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.

Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.

I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.

Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this.  I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.   
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho).

And then he promotes hub like this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/8b4oay/buying_the_pulse_of_hub_keycaps/
and this?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/pulse-sa-keycap-set/talk/2033645

This kind of promotion during a drop. I dont know how to call it.

there were also other posts where he promoted hub with a hyperfuse combination.

And evangs was the guy who posted on reddit that we should boycott kbdfans cause their dz60 is a clone of the bananasplit pcb, just cause it also has split space bar features which is a thing for ages now... This kickstarter has really become a ****show. No idea why somebody even starts to think that he is the king and that he should be mentioned on the frontpage of reddit.

Offline iNViSiBiLiTi

  • Posts: 214
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #258 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:17:55 »
How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)?  You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...
I'll take a slightly different perspective from Chuckdee...
There is an investment, but you (generically... that is the kickstarter supporter) aren't the investor. Evan is the investor.
Evan is raising money for the investment by selling a product.
The product that the kickstarter supporter is buying just happens to be produced on the product of Evan's investment.

ah, I understand. You're right.  We're not investors but we're still paying for tooling and molds. 
60%: Prophet, GSKT-00 x2, Poly GSKT-00-Z, Weaven, Sangeo60, Unikorn R2.1, Ciel60

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Offline PRkeys

  • Posts: 55
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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #259 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:19:31 »
And evangs was the guy who posted on reddit that we should boycott kbdfans cause their dz60 is a clone of the bananasplit pcb, just cause it also has split space bar features which is a thing for ages now... This kickstarter has really become a ****show. No idea why somebody even starts to think that he is the king and that he should be mentioned on the frontpage of reddit.

He is not a king but he is a trusted member of the community. They also shouldn't be pinned to the top of reddit for obvious reasons, but I think the problem there was more the way the admin responded more than the reason for not doing such a thing.

They can just keep posting daily updates and people keep upvoting them as has happened so far.

Offline megaforce

  • Posts: 1087
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #260 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:19:46 »
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.

Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.

I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.

Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this.  I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.   
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho). 



Lmao don't soil Royal Alpha with donut's name
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Offline iNViSiBiLiTi

  • Posts: 214
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #261 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:20:46 »
And evangs was the guy who posted on reddit that we should boycott kbdfans cause their dz60 is a clone of the bananasplit pcb, just cause it also has split space bar features which is a thing for ages now... This kickstarter has really become a ****show. No idea why somebody even starts to think that he is the king and that he should be mentioned on the frontpage of reddit.

He is not a king but he is a trusted member of the community. They also shouldn't be pinned to the top of reddit for obvious reasons, but I think the problem there was more the way the admin responded more than the reason for not doing such a thing.

They can just keep posting daily updates and people keep upvoting them as has happened so far.

You're right.  I could have been more polite.
60%: Prophet, GSKT-00 x2, Poly GSKT-00-Z, Weaven, Sangeo60, Unikorn R2.1, Ciel60

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Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 1054
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #262 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:25:23 »
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.

Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.

I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.

Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this.  I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.   
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho). 



Lmao don't soil Royal Alpha with donut's name

I had no idea, green is all **** to me sry




Offline chuckdee

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1308
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #263 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:27:13 »
And evangs was the guy who posted on reddit that we should boycott kbdfans cause their dz60 is a clone of the bananasplit pcb, just cause it also has split space bar features which is a thing for ages now... This kickstarter has really become a ****show. No idea why somebody even starts to think that he is the king and that he should be mentioned on the frontpage of reddit.

He is not a king but he is a trusted member of the community. They also shouldn't be pinned to the top of reddit for obvious reasons, but I think the problem there was more the way the admin responded more than the reason for not doing such a thing.

They can just keep posting daily updates and people keep upvoting them as has happened so far.

You're right.  I could have been more polite.

Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with the reply.  Simple and succinct.  nope.

Offline megaforce

  • Posts: 1087
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #264 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:33:48 »
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.

Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.

I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.

Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this.  I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.   
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho). 



Lmao don't soil Royal Alpha with donut's name

I had no idea, green is all **** to me sry

ur forgiven, my son.

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Offline ptiede

  • Posts: 267
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #265 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:36:18 »
I'm going to try to explain my perspective on my I'm joined hub. Part of the reason hub is exciting for me is that it will really be the first company producing keycaps who is a member of the community. That should have a few benefits. One is that the price and wait times will drop since unlike with plastic companies like gmk or sp we don't have to interrupt there manufacturing line to make a very small amount of keycaps when compared to their overall business. I'm not sure if this point is really being appreciated yet. Another part is that hopefully, the community will have a bigger voice with keycap production since the again we will be dealing with someone who's only job is to make keycaps for us. Plus I'm just a fan of trying new colors. In this sense, this is an investment for the community, not in the traditional sense, but in the sense that this succeeding could be a really good thing for all of us since it would lower cost and reduce wait times.

I think so far the biggest problem with this kickstarter has been communication and pr. Evan and Van have made some poor decisions. However, they have also shown willingness to be adaptable and listen to us, such as when they changed the layout to include hhkb and wkl support. I think that's encouraging. I am also in the camp that would like to see a little more of a pricing breakdown just to know why they need 500k. It just helps calm nerves for where our money is going. I don't think Evan is going to take the money and pull an Ivan, but some more communication would be a good thing.

Offline KaosJ

  • Posts: 1054
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #266 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:36:45 »
I think the main issue some people may have with inspiring from other colorways is the fact that you are reusing well known keycap set names even though they may be completely different colors then what the name implies. I don't really care personally it's just colors in the end just thought I'd put my consensus from what I've heard.

Gotcha but i see just 3 sets doing it: Miami, Skidata and Royal and just the last one is really close to the OG.

I could care less about the names. KaosJ are you part of this project? I would assume Evan would have some respect for the designers of the colorways being copied.

Nha i'm just laughing at the **** you guys are throwing on this.  I'm just IN this project meaning i joined this project like other 678 people did.   
The only designer he should have contacted in this matter is Donut since Royal is the only set with a similar name and a really similar set (not exactly the same tho). 



Lmao don't soil Royal Alpha with donut's name

I had no idea, green is all **** to me sry

ur forgiven, my son.

Thanks dad  ;)




Offline aznreaper

  • Posts: 251
  • Location: AB, Canada
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #267 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:41:22 »
I don't understand why it's an issue to ask about how he's going to be using his money? It's not it's unheard of for kickstarters to show a breakdown of what the cost of the projects will look like. Even if I'm buying an item and not investing in a kickstarter I want the person running the kickstarter to show that he's done his due diligence in planning and organizing the project to lead it to success, especially when it's a large sum of money relative to what you would normally be seeing from a small independent vendor. A lack of attention to details and organization is what leads to mistakes, delays, and failed kickstarter campaigns.

As for the colourways, while yes no one owns the colours, you would think that someone who has been around the community for quite some time would have asked around and got the blessing from the original designers to run their colourways in his new project as a show of respect.

Offline chuckdee

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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #268 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 16:59:53 »
How is this not an investment if there are new tooling and machines being made (Who's paying for that)?  You don't need to sell half a million keycaps on your first run...
I'll take a slightly different perspective from Chuckdee...
There is an investment, but you (generically... that is the kickstarter supporter) aren't the investor. Evan is the investor.
Evan is raising money for the investment by selling a product.
The product that the kickstarter supporter is buying just happens to be produced on the product of Evan's investment.

I think it's pretty much the same as what I stated, just in a different way.  And I'm on board with that.

Offline Parva Ovis

  • Posts: 193
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #269 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 17:09:58 »
And then he promotes hub like this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/8b4oay/buying_the_pulse_of_hub_keycaps/
and this?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/pulse-sa-keycap-set/talk/2033645

This kind of promotion during a drop. I dont know how to call it.

there were also other posts where he promoted hub with a hyperfuse combination.
I would call it you misattributing posts to Evan. Langelandia is the OP of the first link and is not Evan, Arhipio, or anyone associated with TheVanKeyboards. They're literally just a backer who is interested in supporting the project.

As for the second link, it is literally just a single comment, in response to someone complaining about SA PuLSE not covering their layout, that says "you should check out HuB." I'm not seeing the issue here.

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #270 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 17:27:56 »
I would call it you misattributing posts to Evan. Langelandia is the OP of the first link and is not Evan, Arhipio, or anyone associated with TheVanKeyboards. They're literally just a backer who is interested in supporting the project.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94974.msg2591287#msg2591287
I see the render was done on the request.

As for the second link, it is literally just a single comment, in response to someone complaining about SA PuLSE not covering their layout, that says "you should check out HuB." I'm not seeing the issue here.

Good, i will promote my sets too in others GB threads as soon someone complains about compability.



Anyway i guess evan does not care to work with other community designers in the future if we consider these promotion acts. So basicaly this kickstarter is for funding evan to do knockoffs in the future, because i doubt any designer want to work with him because of this agressive advertising.

Offline Vigrith

  • Posts: 1843
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #271 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 17:30:26 »
As for the second link, it is literally just a single comment, in response to someone complaining about SA PuLSE not covering their layout, that says "you should check out HuB." I'm not seeing the issue here.

Etiquette goes a long way when you're a vendor/business in an ultra-niche hobby/area such as this one.

Offline mgsickler

  • Posts: 848
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #272 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 17:47:46 »
As someone who actually has quotes for just the tooling costs - just the molds - I have to say that Evan's numbers are spot on. I dont think people truly understand the costs that it takes to have proper tooling made. The cost of the tooling quoted to me is well over half of what Evan is asking for. On top of that you need to take into account the actual cost of production and labor for the sets that are actually sold during this Kickstarter.

Even though I am doing my own profile, I very much want this to succeed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 April 2018, 17:50:23 by mgsickler »

Offline Acereconkeys

  • Posts: 498
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  • Happiness = life - expectations
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #273 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 18:00:44 »
As someone who actually has quotes for just the tooling costs - just the molds - I have to say that Evan's numbers are spot on. I dont think people truly understand the costs that it takes to have proper tooling made. The cost of the tooling quoted to me is well over half of what Evan is asking for. On top of that you need to take into account the actual cost of production and labor for the sets that are actually sold during this Kickstarter.

Even though I am doing my own profile, I very much want this to succeed.

Due to your experience I believe you why does it have to be you that responds to these comments? What is so hard about Evan adding a quick blurb to the FAQ on kickstarter about the heightened price and referencing people to it when they ask in this thread.
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Offline kmba

  • Formerly tameone
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  • Location: Indiana, USA
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #274 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 18:08:58 »
I'm in if you add the diarrhea brown on purple I heard mentioned earlier.
keyboards.

Offline Parva Ovis

  • Posts: 193
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #275 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 18:29:46 »
As for the second link, it is literally just a single comment, in response to someone complaining about SA PuLSE not covering their layout, that says "you should check out HuB." I'm not seeing the issue here.

Etiquette goes a long way when you're a vendor/business in an ultra-niche hobby/area such as this one.
True. At the same time, a single reply is not equivalent to a promotional thread/top-level post on a thread, which is what T0mb3ry appeared to me to be talking about/linking to in the post I quoted. I'm inclined to say the comment was unwise at best, but it's in a different league than if the Langelandia post had been by Evan.

I would call it you misattributing posts to Evan. Langelandia is the OP of the first link and is not Evan, Arhipio, or anyone associated with TheVanKeyboards. They're literally just a backer who is interested in supporting the project.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94974.msg2591287#msg2591287
I see the render was done on the request.
Your point being what, exactly? It still wasn't Evan who requested the render, who made the render, who posted the render in the Geekhack thread, or who posted the render to Reddit, and it wasn't anyone on the team who requested the render or posted it to Reddit. You were still in the wrong to represent the reddit post as being promotion by Evan.

As for the second link, it is literally just a single comment, in response to someone complaining about SA PuLSE not covering their layout, that says "you should check out HuB." I'm not seeing the issue here.

Good, i will promote my sets too in others GB threads as soon someone complains about compability.;

Anyway i guess evan does not care to work with other community designers in the future if we consider these promotion acts. So basicaly this kickstarter is for funding evan to do knockoffs in the future, because i doubt any designer want to work with him because of this agressive advertising.
The sudden disparagement seems very out of place for what we're talking about.

Offline Kevadu

  • Posts: 382
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #276 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 18:57:56 »
I'm really confused by this thread.  It's as if people have only just discovered how Kickstarter works...

Kickstarting is not investing.  Investors expect to be rewarded if the thing they invest in is successful.  In Kickstarters the backers take all the risk and the people managing the project get all the rewards.  You can argue that's a pretty ****ty model...and you would probably be right.  But that's how literally every Kickstarter project ever has been.  Nothing about it is new or specific to this one.

Offline emenelopee

  • Posts: 398
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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #277 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 19:06:38 »
I'm really confused by this thread.  It's as if people have only just discovered how Kickstarter works...

Kickstarting is not investing.  Investors expect to be rewarded if the thing they invest in is successful.  In Kickstarters the backers take all the risk and the people managing the project get all the rewards.  You can argue that's a pretty ****ty model...and you would probably be right.  But that's how literally every Kickstarter project ever has been.  Nothing about it is new or specific to this one.

I would also add: the investors take all the risk with zero effort, the managers take all the reward but put in all the effort.

It's not not out of whack in this crowd-sourcing/gig/winner takes all era, but I would also argue it's a ****ty model as the fall-out from failure is not pretty.

That is my tuppence - as you were.

Offline kiwi99

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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #278 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 19:22:04 »
So when's the price breakdown getting posted?  :))

Wouldn't mind getting a set to try it out.

Would be cool to see a new profile/manu.

Even a graph with no hard numbers would be nice to see, the secrecy behind all of this seems quite shady...

 

Offline iNViSiBiLiTi

  • Posts: 214
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #279 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 19:27:50 »
I'm really confused by this thread.  It's as if people have only just discovered how Kickstarter works...

Kickstarting is not investing.  Investors expect to be rewarded if the thing they invest in is successful.  In Kickstarters the backers take all the risk and the people managing the project get all the rewards.  You can argue that's a pretty ****ty model...and you would probably be right.  But that's how literally every Kickstarter project ever has been.  Nothing about it is new or specific to this one.

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Offline chuckdee

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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #280 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 19:45:34 »
I'm really confused by this thread.  It's as if people have only just discovered how Kickstarter works...

Kickstarting is not investing.  Investors expect to be rewarded if the thing they invest in is successful.  In Kickstarters the backers take all the risk and the people managing the project get all the rewards.  You can argue that's a pretty ****ty model...and you would probably be right.  But that's how literally every Kickstarter project ever has been.  Nothing about it is new or specific to this one.

I would also add: the investors take all the risk with zero effort, the managers take all the reward but put in all the effort.

It's not not out of whack in this crowd-sourcing/gig/winner takes all era, but I would also argue it's a ****ty model as the fall-out from failure is not pretty.

That is my tuppence - as you were.

That's why you have to do your due diligence.  Crowdfunding is not IMO a bad model.  It just has downsides, just like any other venture, and misconceptions that go along with the funding model.  I only fund what I can afford to lose, and fund those people that I want to succeed.  But sometimes success doesn't come, though as long as they put in the appropriate effort, I'm not mad at them.  And if they succeed, I'm happy for them.

Offline MikeTheTiger

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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #281 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 20:26:15 »
Man, I went to sleep and woke up to read all this drama. The bottom line is that we should be behind our community in moving things forward and creating new keys, profiles, boards, etc. If you have doubts, don't back the Kickstarter. Evan has a proven track record of delivering his products. The Hub is a huge endeavour and therefore will require a proportionate amount of funds to get it off the ground. I personally have messaged Evan and TheVanKeyboards on social media, when needing support and spare pcbs for my MiniVan and Roadkits. Everytime, I have received prompt responses. Never have I felt that I was getting scammed or anything like that. We all have probably supported a GB in the past where we feel that it was taking too long or we felt entitled to more information. I understand that, but in the end, if you don't feel right, don't support it. The negativity here isn't doing anything to further our community and it's creations. I for one am going to submit my pledge soon...and if it doesn't work out, I won't be upset. I don't need to see a breakdown. It won't change my support for the makers in this community. GB runners put in a lot of work and we owe it to them to provide our support, whether through words or our money. So let's try to end the bickering and demands and focus on the end goal.  :thumb:

Offline MxBlue

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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #282 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 21:02:20 »
Finally got around to catching up on this thread, I'm pretty happy to see another keycap manufacturer come around, would sure help make your keyboards prettier for cheaper. The main issue I see with this GB is that as others have said, the buyers are taking a really big risk, even compared to normal group buys on GH.

I dunno about the people going on about profit, it's a bit silly to point fingers at that when the sets are so damn cheap, but the main issue I see it the opposite, whether they have more than enough margin to pay for anything unexpected that arises. Massdrop gets away with little criticism with sets like MT3 because they have a very large amount of capital, such that in the event issues occur, production can still continue or refunds can be paid out. I highly doubt the 500k that's been raised here will even begin to account for that.

So all in all, I would hope they talk a bit more about their plans and what measures they have in place for possible risks, which is my main concern. If they really aren't willing, can't really blame them, it is not something you'd usually share, but people will obviously have their doubts about investing in a company that requires a significant amount of money to actually proceed with their order.

So I will conclude copying someone elses opinion, with a slight correction:
I only fund what I can afford to lose, and fund those people that I want to succeed.  But sometimes success doesn't come, though as long as even if they put in the appropriate effort, I'm not mad at them.  And if they succeed, I'm happy for them.
:p

Offline Tom_Kazansky

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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #283 on: Thu, 12 April 2018, 21:18:06 »
it seems the thread jumps like... 1.5 pages in one night... (sorry, tl;dr)

if it's about the price, $50/set <- pretty good price for a set with this many keys
or get 12 sets ($300 pledge) so that's $25/set, yes?

am I missing anything here?
---
I do have plan to get 6 sets, I will join in a later date.  :D

Offline PotatoTM

  • Posts: 329
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  • ...
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #284 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 01:05:59 »
This has been a great read, thank you everyone. I feel as if a lot of these disputes could be settled if Evan just gave his side of the story / his opinion. If people agree with it, great. If people disagree with it, at least they will know where he stands and hopefully find peace in agreeing to disagree.
.

Offline pr0ximity

  • Posts: 2705
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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #285 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 06:30:05 »
Finally got around to catching up on this thread, I'm pretty happy to see another keycap manufacturer come around, would sure help make your keyboards prettier for cheaper. The main issue I see with this GB is that as others have said, the buyers are taking a really big risk, even compared to normal group buys on GH.

I dunno about the people going on about profit, it's a bit silly to point fingers at that when the sets are so damn cheap, but the main issue I see it the opposite, whether they have more than enough margin to pay for anything unexpected that arises. Massdrop gets away with little criticism with sets like MT3 because they have a very large amount of capital, such that in the event issues occur, production can still continue or refunds can be paid out. I highly doubt the 500k that's been raised here will even begin to account for that.

The point that a few others of the vehement supporters of the project in here seem to be missing is that this is 100% not a group-buy for just keycaps. That is why people are bringing up the angle of investment, but I'm not sure why people haven't been direct about it.

This Kickstarter is to fund buying tooling, manufacturing space, and other unknown costs (because of the lack of transparency). Not renting or borrowing, purchasing. In a normal keycap group-buy, the organizer is left with (sometimes) some payment for their effort, and the participants take home the products they all bought together. In this Kickstarter, participants are buying keycaps at some unknown markup, and also purchasing the means for this organization to continue producing keycaps afterwards. You're essentially giving out a free business loan, or so it would seem, which is why people are rightly skeptical.

Additionally, any promises made about the frequency of runs, cost of caps in the future, quality of caps, legend availablity, etc. are totally speculation, and you should consider that when promoting projects and GBs. The organizater is I'm sure acting in good faith, but things happen, complications arise, etc.

One last note: Being critical of things like this isn't being a threadcrapper, it's being honest and trying to help the community of people who are often young and inexperienced to not be taken advantage of.

No disrespect to the organizers, it's not difficult for them to clear this kind of stuff up.
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Offline Wetherbee

  • Posts: 210
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #286 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 06:40:19 »

Why are people wasting their time arguing about a campaign that has no chance of being funded?

Offline evangs

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Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #287 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 10:55:41 »
Greetings all!

There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.

What is the goal of this project?

The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.

Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.

How can you make the keycaps so cheap?

Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.

How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?

The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.

Are new legends and novelties a possibility?

Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.

Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.

Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.

Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?

That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.

We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.


Sincerely,

Evan
TheVan Keyboards

Offline MikeTheTiger

  • Posts: 824
  • Location: 29.9511° N, 90.0715° W
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #288 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:02:06 »
Greetings all!

There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.

What is the goal of this project?

The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.

Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.

How can you make the keycaps so cheap?

Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.

How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?

The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.

Are new legends and novelties a possibility?

Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.

Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.

Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.

Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?

That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.

We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.


Sincerely,

Evan
TheVan Keyboards


Well said. I hope this helps clear up any skepticism. Let's get this funded!!

Offline ptiede

  • Posts: 267
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #289 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:06:51 »
Greetings all!

There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.

What is the goal of this project?

The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.

Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.

How can you make the keycaps so cheap?

Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.

How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?

The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.

Are new legends and novelties a possibility?

Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.

Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.

Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.

Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?

That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.

We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.


Sincerely,

Evan
TheVan Keyboards

Great to have the breakdown! Hopefully this eases everyone's mind.

Offline frostbyte-gaming

  • Posts: 55
  • Location: Canada
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #290 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:08:52 »
Greetings all!

There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.

What is the goal of this project?

The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.

Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.

How can you make the keycaps so cheap?

Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.

How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?

The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.

Are new legends and novelties a possibility?

Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.

Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.

Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.

Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?

That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.

We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.


Sincerely,

Evan
TheVan Keyboards

Thank you very much for taking the time to write this up, I know lots of people were really looking for answers and I think this clears up a lot of things for them. Hopefully the transparency giving here encourages more people to join as I definitely think creating new and exciting things is always good thing.

Offline azachhh

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #291 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:11:05 »
Greetings all!

There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.

What is the goal of this project?

The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.

Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.

How can you make the keycaps so cheap?

Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.

How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?

The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.

Are new legends and novelties a possibility?

Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.

Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.

Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.

Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?

That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.

We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.


Sincerely,

Evan
TheVan Keyboards

Thank you!

Offline Harms

  • Posts: 308
  • Location: Canada
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #292 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:16:28 »
Greetings all!

There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.

What is the goal of this project?

The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.

Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.

How can you make the keycaps so cheap?

Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.

How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?

The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.

Are new legends and novelties a possibility?

Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.

Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.

Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.

Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?

That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.

We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.


Sincerely,

Evan
TheVan Keyboards
The real MVP.

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #293 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:16:55 »
More
Greetings all!

There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.

What is the goal of this project?

The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.

Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.

How can you make the keycaps so cheap?

Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.

How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?

The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.

Are new legends and novelties a possibility?

Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.

Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.

Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.

Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?

That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.

We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.


Sincerely,

Evan
TheVan Keyboards

That's all it takes -- thank you & good luck.

Offline Koobaczech

  • Posts: 400
  • Location: Florida, USA
  • Don't forget to smile :)
    • Pearlboards
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #294 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:39:05 »
See. We all needed a bit of patience. The Van Man delivers, and this is one of the few times I can say that this project is very beneficial to the community. I'm sure the monetary details were left out before hand because that's not the focus of HUB. Instead, everyone went on a riot over silly reddit and GH comments, demanded information and derailed this whole thing. 500k is a stretch, and if it gets met or not, we should try to be supportive of projects that can grow our market and benefit us all. And in the future, possibly take it to pm's beforehand instead of demanding inside information to be spilt on thread.

Offline MikeTheTiger

  • Posts: 824
  • Location: 29.9511° N, 90.0715° W
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #295 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 11:55:19 »
The Van Man delivers

I always loved this!!  :p  :p  :p

Offline clasicks

  • Formerly KeyboardUser4
  • Posts: 785
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #296 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:14:19 »
Greetings all!

There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.

What is the goal of this project?

The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.

Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.

How can you make the keycaps so cheap?

Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.

How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?

The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.

Are new legends and novelties a possibility?

Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.

Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.

Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.

Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?

That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.

We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.


Sincerely,

Evan
TheVan Keyboards

Nice post, you tackled a lot of questions. You seemed to skip the one's about the colorway ripoffs - gonna assume you just don't give a **** about that aspect. bummer.

Its funny you gave so much **** about kbdfans offering a split space pcb and even asked people to boycott them for "stealing"

Offline azachhh

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Tennessee
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #297 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:44:24 »
More
Greetings all!

There have been a lot of questions about the HuB keycap project in the past few days. I would like to clear those all up in a single update as much as I possibly can.

What is the goal of this project?

The first goal of this project is to bring a new keycap profile to life. Initially, I wasn’t satisfied with what existed and began exploring what would be an evolution of current favorites. The result of that is the HuB profile. After spending a considerable amount of time and money prototyping, testing, and designing, we want to make them a reality.

Alongside the melding of design was the goal to make them affordable and readily available. To do this, we spent a ton of time at trade shows, meetings, and more meetings. The current platform has limited availability and leads to long queues and production time for us as a community. By tooling up with our manufacturing partner - (OEM Manufacturing), we can achieve what we have set out to do.

How can you make the keycaps so cheap?

Our approach is to change the way we do our molding. Rather than producing a single key at a time, we will be producing sections of the set at once and packaging them as they come out of the mold. By doing this we don’t have to sort the keycaps in the end, saving both time and money, and avoiding human mistakes. It does restrict us initially somewhat on how we can color a keycap set, but we have taken careful consideration on which keys to group together to give us flexibility while still keeping costs low. In the future we plan and expect to expand the groupings to be more flexible in allowing for even more creative color schemes.

How much will sets cost after the kickstarter?

The sets will sell for the same price. $50 for a single set, with the price reduced as quantity rises. We hope to host many group buys that will have a much lower barrier to entry that what is currently available. A larger focus on the creative aspect of a set, and less focus on worrying about production and shipping is the goal.

Are new legends and novelties a possibility?

Definitely - expansion and modification is exactly what we plan on. We would love everyone to start thinking with more freedom. Our manufacturing partner is extremely proficient, and we can request and address costs as they come to fruition.

Where is the money going from the kickstarter?
The tooling cost has been quoted between 320k-360k. The low end will allow us to meet every objective of this kickstarter. The higher option allows us to produce the keycaps cheaper. We also need to cover production of the initial run of caps (80-100k). That leaves about 120k for us to cover the rest. Kickstarter takes a cut of (50k), packaging manufacture and storage (5k), keycap storage (4K), MiniVans (kickstarter rewards) (50k), labor for end packaging/processing/shipping (4.3k) and around 10-20k for any emergencies that may arise. Many of the above quotes are for low quantity orders so we will likely save some there.

Stretch goals are completely up to everyone supporting the project, so we need your vote in making those decisions.

Are we (the community) just funding you to become a keycap manufacturer and make money?

That is one way to look at it. With your help we will be setting ourselves up to produce high quality keycaps for a great price. We believe that having a more accessible option, with a ton of potential to grow would be great for the community, and hope that we aren’t alone in that.

We would also like to thank everyone for the feedback, as we wouldn’t have the offering as it is without everybodies help. Thank you to everyone supporting already, it means a ton to us. We really hope that this project can succeed and it will only happen with your help.


Sincerely,

Evan
TheVan Keyboards

Nice post, you tackled a lot of questions. You seemed to skip the one's about the colorway ripoffs - gonna assume you just don't give a **** about that aspect. bummer.

Its funny you gave so much **** about kbdfans offering a split space pcb and even asked people to boycott them for "stealing"

Holy macaroni, give it a rest.
If the colorway OG designers aren't verbally/outwardly upset about it - why are you taking the time to be?
If they are....show me so I can retract this statement & issue an apology - LOL.

It just seems like you're taking it personally that there are somewhat similar colorways & similar naming conventions being used.
While I do understand the aspect of 'respecting your elders' ... I think someone did already make a good point that they are just colors.

Not trying to create bad blood - just think this thread has seen enough negativity.
Let's either support the Kickstarter & have positive conversation... or ...don't support the Kickstarter & stop following/posting on this thread.

Peace on Earth GH.

Offline clasicks

  • Formerly KeyboardUser4
  • Posts: 785
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #298 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:45:55 »
guess i'm the only one who cares. **** me right.

thats a shame.

Offline Parva Ovis

  • Posts: 193
Re: HuB - New Keycap Profile | Kickstarter Launch | From TheVanKeyboards
« Reply #299 on: Fri, 13 April 2018, 12:49:17 »
*Snip*

Nice post, you tackled a lot of questions. You seemed to skip the one's about the colorway ripoffs - gonna assume you just don't give a **** about that aspect. bummer.

Its funny you gave so much **** about kbdfans offering a split space pcb and even asked people to boycott them for "stealing"
Let's see, 80s Kid, Laguna, Dreamweaver, Paperwork, Hive, Heart, and Midnite are all, to my knowledge, non-derivative colorways. That leaves Skidata, Royal, Nuke, Miami, and Joker. Everyone and their mother has made a Miami variant, neither Matt3o nor thisiscamper have complained about Evan's variant on their colorways, and Royal, which coincidentally is the only one "identical" to it's inspiration, is based on an already derivative colorway. That just leaves Skidata, which I'm not familiar enough with to comment on.

EDIT: Posted early on accident. So, what I want to know is, what are these questions of yours that Evan isn't answering? What specifically are you asking?
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 April 2018, 13:00:15 by Parva Ovis »