Typing extended characters from TKL?

[ander]

This may sound really picky–but try to keep in mind how picky you are about lots of other keeb-related things (and you know you are), and we should be okay, okay?

I'm used to using the number pad to type extended characters (e.g. Alt+0151 for an "em dash"—like that one I just did there). But more and more boards are TKL these days, and they don't all have embedded number pads you can activate by pressing Num Lock.

Is there a way to enter extended characters on those anyway? Other than resorting to one of those macro apps that monitors everything you type system-wide, which seems creepy and overkill?

Or have most people stopped caring about things like dashes, accented characters, and copyright symbols, as they have about music, movies that aren't all about explosions and aliens and car chases, and most other stuff that's in any way subtle and/or consciousness-enhancing?

Also, admins, if this seems too off-topic for the Keyboards section, feel free to move it elsewhere. (Far be it for me to suggest it may actually be more about keyboards than the usual banter re key caps with li'l monster faces [with correspondingly monstrous prices], mini-keebs with disco lighting effects, &etc.)

[davkol]

Unicode input is UI toolkit dependent. For example, the hotkey is Ctrl-Shift-U, code, Enter in GTK+ apps; Alt + code on numpad is specific to MS Windows. Either way, it's an user-fiendly workaround.

The proper way to deal with this is an AltGraph-accessed layer, or Compose key.

[Findecanor]

In some programs you can configure it to auto-translate something like "--" to emdash. Some word processors do it by default. ... But it is of course not system-wide.

I use Linux with X almost exclusively now. There, the Alt Gr layer for the Swedish layout that i use has more symbols than on Windows but the emdash symbol is not there.
However, I can map Compose to e.g. the Menu key. In Mate (a fork of Gnome 2), I go into Keyboard settings -> layout -> options -> Position of Compose key.
When I have it, I press Compose followed by three presses of - to get emdash.

I am usually very picky about certain characters. Diacritic marks (accents, umlaut etc.) should be correct. ("über" not "uber", etc.). The Greek letter µ for the "micro" prefix, not u, The multiplication symbol × for multiplication, not the letter X - and I would definitely not use the letter in speech like a lot of morons do.
Different widths of dashes and spaces are not so important to me, however. As you can see above, I instead use the convention of putting a space before and after the hyphen.

[Polymer]

This may sound really picky–but try to keep in mind how picky you are about lots of other keeb-related things (and you know you are), and we should be okay, okay?

I'm used to using the number pad to type extended characters (e.g. Alt+0151 for an "em dash"—like that one I just did there). But more and more boards are TKL these days, and they don't all have embedded number pads you can activate by pressing Num Lock.

Is there a way to enter extended characters on those anyway? Other than resorting to one of those macro apps that monitors everything you type system-wide, which seems creepy and overkill?

Or have most people stopped caring about things like dashes, accented characters, and copyright symbols, as they have about music, movies that aren't all about explosions and aliens and car chases, and most other stuff that's in any way subtle and/or consciousness-enhancing?

Also, admins, if this seems too off-topic for the Keyboards section, feel free to move it elsewhere. (Far be it for me to suggest it may actually be more about keyboards than the usual banter re key caps with li'l monster faces [with correspondingly monstrous prices], mini-keebs with disco lighting effects, &etc.)

Whoa...a bit self-conscious much? 

You've already included your defense and attacks on other people before they've even had a chance to comment...

But to answer your question...

If a TKL board you've chosen doesn't have this then your options would be some of the software options some people have mentioned...or even buying a dedicated numberpad (And you have to be careful because some don't use the numberpad numbers, I think Leopold had this issue). 

Given what you're used to and the frequency you apparently use this, I think a dedicated numberpad is the way to go.  That way you only need one of them and you can continue to buy whatever keyboards you want and not have to worry if they're 60%, TKL, etc, etc.

Or you can look at the layouts that do have numberpad support..such as 1800...which gives people that bit of extra room AND a numberpad...

[ander]

Whoa...a bit self-conscious much? ... You've already included your defense and attacks on other people before they've even had a chance to comment...

I was just being funny, BTW, comparing punctuation to car crashes. (I forgot to mention that back in, what, August.) I realize not everyone here gets the humour thing, though; some of you are Very Serious.

[Tactile]

The obvious solution is to buy a Realforce 87U which, for those who didn't realize it, has an embedded numeric keypad which outputs proper keypad codes. TKL and a numpad all-in-one. And, besides, once you have a Topre Realforce keyboard you have no need for any other - job done. 

[Polymer]

Whoa...a bit self-conscious much? ... You've already included your defense and attacks on other people before they've even had a chance to comment...

I was just being funny, BTW, comparing punctuation to car crashes. (I forgot to mention that back in, what, August.) I realize not everyone here gets the humour thing, though; some of you are Very Serious.

Was it?  Didn't seem like it...even the way you wrote it, it is a subtle dig at people that don't think about things the same way you do...

But this is text, it is hard to convey facial expressions and delivery/tone...*shrug*

[ideus]

This is an interesting question, beyond the rhetoric of the OP wording.

I use ANSI layout on a Sixty board for writing in English and Spanish with US International and Graph-Alt and most of the special characters that I need can be easily produce with some AltGr combo. However I always wonder how characters that are not been included in the US Int layout can be produced and some of the resources pointed comes handy. I really would like to have an embedded num pad, not just for the sake of producing strange characters, but also for those moments when number entry is required.

[_rubik]

Were you previously doing this with software or firmware? If firmware, this might be a good time to throw together a standalone numpad (or just generic keypad if you're like me and don't care much for numpads).

[ander]

This is an interesting question, beyond the rhetoric of the OP wording...

Actually, I tend to write this way because I'm a retired professional multi-disciplinary creative type, stuck in the 'burbs (where my wife works), surrounded by fervid conformists, and getting artsy-craftsy on message forums is often the only outlet I have for my annoyingly rhetorical inventive ideas.

Also, like, GH is a keeb forum, right? Can you see the irony in insisting a keeb forum be limited to discussion of keebs, and not afford the occasional chance to enjoy just using keebs? (Again, I realize some of you are to non-technical stuff like I'm to feminine hygiene products. You're off the hook, and please enjoy the precision of keebs's many small, precisely organized objects.)

I use ANSI layout on a Sixty board for writing in English and Spanish with US International and Graph-Alt and most of the special characters that I need can be easily produce with some AltGr combo...

Ah, the fabled AltGr key... As Wikipedia (whom I assume I can screenshot with impugnity) explains:





In other words, it's like having a numpad (or "tenkey", to those of you under 20) Alt in place of one of your regular Alts. And that's the modifier you need to type ASCII codes. Which is what I was on about in my OP.

But AltGr is found only on non-ANSI layouts, right? Could one map something like that to an ANSI keeb? Is it just a code? Maybe that's the answer!

Were you previously doing this with software or firmware?

As I mentioned in my OP (I love quoting myself, BTW):

I'm used to using the number pad to type extended characters (e.g. Alt+0151 for an "em dash"—like that one I just did there)...

...This might be a good time to throw together a standalone numpad (or just generic keypad if you're like me and don't care much for numpads).

Yes, I suppose that's the ultimate solution. But really, for me, we're talking, like, maybe three characters total:

—

–

•

...so it seems like overkill to add a whole sub-board. I just find it hard to believe that people can be so crazy about being 2" closer to their mouses, they're willing to sacrifice everything only a numpad/tenkey can do.

Or maybe they don't even know what it can do. Lots of people don't even bother using apostrophes anymore. (Coffee at Starbucks, anyone?)

[ideus]

Dear ander, AltGr is actually incorporated in ANSI layouts to support the US International character set, so the solution is already there. In my experience, With US International you can type in English (natively), Spanish and French, using the Alt Gr for those characters that are not included on the ANSI layout.

[Zobeid Zuma]

I've recently moved from Mac to Ubuntu, and I've recently discovered the Compose key—and become a believer.  It works a little differently with key code sequences instead of chords.  So for example, instead of pressing Option-Shift-dash simultaneously for a m-dash, now I tap Compose followed by three taps on the dash key.  If I want a ⅔ symbol, that is Compose 2 3.

I was skeptical at first, but I soon discovered how well this works and how easy the key sequences are to remember.  In my opinion it's way better than how the Mac did it.  Using the Compose key on Linux, all the code are mnemonic, and I don't have to look up anything to tap out fractions,  “smart quotes”, and symbols like ®, ©, ™, ℠, °, ÷, →, etc.

Not sure how it works in other environments, but in Ubuntu there are keyboard layout options that let you select what key, or combination of keys, works as Compose.  There are a lot of options, and I've tried several.  At this moment I have Scroll Lock (possibly the most useless key on the keyboard) set to work as Compose, and I also programmed my keyboard to make Fn-RtAlt work as Scroll Lock.  So that effectively became Compose.  However…  My next build is going to have a dedicated Compose key.  My plan is to use a split right-shift and make that extra 1u key work as Compose.

[TalkingTree]

I use a virtual numpad on my secondary layer.

[ander]

I've recently moved from Mac to Ubuntu, and I've recently discovered the Compose key—and become a believer.  It works a little differently with key code sequences instead of chords.  So for example, instead of pressing Option-Shift-dash simultaneously for a m-dash, now I tap Compose followed by three taps on the dash key.  If I want a ⅔ symbol, that is Compose 2 3.

I was skeptical at first, but I soon discovered how well this works and how easy the key sequences are to remember.  In my opinion it's way better than how the Mac did it.  Using the Compose key on Linux, all the code are mnemonic, and I don't have to look up anything to tap out fractions,  “smart quotes”, and symbols like ®, ©, ™, ℠, °, ÷, →, etc.

Not sure how it works in other environments, but in Ubuntu there are keyboard layout options that let you select what key, or combination of keys, works as Compose.  There are a lot of options, and I've tried several.  At this moment I have Scroll Lock (possibly the most useless key on the keyboard) set to work as Compose, and I also programmed my keyboard to make Fn-RtAlt work as Scroll Lock.  So that effectively became Compose.  However…  My next build is going to have a dedicated Compose key.  My plan is to use a split right-shift and make that extra 1u key work as Compose.

Quite cool! And just another example of how much more customizable Linuxes are. I don't think I'm prepared to switch over from Windows just for this, but I'm glad to know about it.

[suicidal_orange]

another example of how much more customizable Linuxes are. I don't think I'm prepared to switch over from Windows just for this, but I'm glad to know about it.

Why not?  I don't recall you mentioning any hobbies which require windows and if you like typing you could get a window manager that doesn't need a mouse and do even more of it!

Regarding the original question my first thought was that if I made a commercial TKL I'd make it so once num lock was on the number row outputted keypad codes, but who knows if anyone does.  And of course you don't have a num lock key on a TKL...

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I don't have a huge amount of Unicode characters that I type regularly, so alt+nnnn entry isn't of any use (I'd never know the character codes anyway). For the characters I do enter, I generally bind them in AutoHotkey using its Unicode entry method. e.g. ctrl+alt+N = →, ctrl+alt+shift+8 = °

[Polymer]

another example of how much more customizable Linuxes are. I don't think I'm prepared to switch over from Windows just for this, but I'm glad to know about it.

Why not?  I don't recall you mentioning any hobbies which require windows and if you like typing you could get a window manager that doesn't need a mouse and do even more of it!

Regarding the original question my first thought was that if I made a commercial TKL I'd make it so once num lock was on the number row outputted keypad codes, but who knows if anyone does.  And of course you don't have a num lock key on a TKL...

Realforce does...it works ok...

And it would be an easy option for any TKL board to add...but I think it just hasn't taken of because, well, what's the point? 

I've used it specifically just for the few times I needed to use an alt character.  If you really need a numberpad it isn't quite the same (although close). 

[Zobeid Zuma]

Quite cool! And just another example of how much more customizable Linuxes are. I don't think I'm prepared to switch over from Windows just for this, but I'm glad to know about it.

The Compose key functionality is built into Linux, but it's also easy to add to Windows.  There are free utilities you can get to set up a Compose key.  I installed and tested one called WinCompose yesterday, and it seems to work OK.

[ander]

another example of how much more customizable Linuxes are. I don't think I'm prepared to switch over from Windows just for this, but I'm glad to know about it.

Why not?  I don't recall you mentioning any hobbies which require windows and if you like typing you could get a window manager that doesn't need a mouse and do even more of it!

Linux is great—I've used and enjoyed several distros. Unfortunately, Sibelius, my music notation software, requires Windows, and its stupid control-freak copy protection prevents it from running in any virtual Windows environments.

Realforce does...it works ok... And it would be an easy option for any TKL board to add...but I think it just hasn't taken of because, well, what's the point? ...

LOL, I'm typing on a RF TKL as we speak. But I've also realized I'm usually using a laptop, so I can just reach up and use its number pad for special characters—who woulda thunk it?

The Compose key functionality is built into Linux, but it's also easy to add to Windows.  There are free utilities you can get to set up a Compose key.  I installed and tested one called WinCompose yesterday, and it seems to work OK.

That's neat—I'll try it. In the past, I've avoided global hot-key utilities out of concern that they might steal too many clock-ticks on slower systems, having to monitor every keypress you type anywhere. But maybe it's well-written enough for that not to be a problem.