brown vs. blue cherry

[exousia]

It's amazing how much polarity there is around here of opinion about each and every switch. One person hates browns but loves blacks, the next hates blacks and loves blues, hates blues and blacks loves brown, hates them all, the combinations are endless... and confusing none-the-less. I think if people put there own opinions into perspective it might be better useful for people who are searching for a certain feel for a certain kind of use, ie mostly gaming or mostly just typing. So far the Browns seem like a decent middle ground but then again there are some who think Black is the better way to go (gaming-wise), others who say Blue can handle everything, then others who suggest Clears/Whites are a likely sweet spot between brown and black but theres not enough people with experience with them to compare with the other switches and with different types of uses to say anything for sure.

I'm picky though so haven't decided what is "best".  The Cherry Clears from Datacal will take a few days to arrive.

So how's those Clears working out for you?

[AndrewZorn]

i think its not really as hard is it is often made out to be... just think of the properties

loud click vs subtle tactile click vs no tactile click (ZOMG GAMING MUST HAVE / NOT HAVE CLICKS)
light vs medium vs heavy (ZOMG QUICK REACTION / HEAVY FINGERS)

so then we just go back to what CHERRY has to say about them

blue - light + loud click
brown - light + subtle click

topre - medium + no click

BS - heavy + loud click
black - heavy + no click

etc
this might need a graphical matrix to be fully realized

my point is this forum needs more arguing over whether or not you need clickiness in games, instead of the best gaming switch

[Arc'xer]

my point is this forum needs more arguing over whether or not you need clickiness in games, instead of the best gaming switch

Maybe it's not my place to speak. I'm still waiting to buy a filco and I never used a mechanical keyboard. But I think that clickiness is a moot point.

A serious gamer would buy high-quality stereo headphones like AD700s or HD555s. The in-game noise would drown out the clickiness. And most FPS have a very small APM requirement(Actions per minute) unlike say typing where some people are doing 60-140 WPM or an RTS game like Starcraft, ever seen some of the South Korean pro Starcraft players point of view

I spent quite a few weeks reading this site. And when I spent time reading about blues and gaming, since I just love the blues sound and I don't play that many games. I kept seeing basically "They are okay, nothing horrible or anything. Their slight increased force requirement is in some ways better than browns avoiding accidental key press in case of hovering fingers or you might also consider the browns since their lightness feels linear in a way".

The funny thing is most of the time clickiness was debated for a short time or not at all. And most discussions moved to whether browns or linear like the MX blacks or the recent MX reds should be used instead.

Rip's son uses a unicomp, louder than the blues, correct?

Guess it's not about noise but preference in the end.

[AndrewZorn]

i think its the feel not the noise that is loved/hated
also, open headphones (and maybe anyway) you WOULD still hear them

if it is RTS you are looking for i think the click would be almost as helpful as it is for typing, its more the type of game that would benefit from 'confirmation'

people want stiff black switches with no click to them when, for example, repeatedly jumping in quake 3

[timw4mail]

I stuck my Cherry Clear (and Cherry Red for that matter) impressions in the N52 Mod post here.

Unless you're a pro gamer (and I take pros who make money from their equipment decisions a lot more seriously than any of YOU guys) I would choose a keyboard based on whatever key switch matches your general typing style.

Hence why I game with a Model F

[Rajagra]

Perfect gaming keyboard:

Keys should work reliably. No failed keypresses. No bouncing.
Force. Light as possible without getting accidental presses.
Travel. Shorter the better for gaming performance, if truth be told.
Tactile feedback. Irrelevant if you're mashing keys. Useful if you don't and if it genuinely confirms a keypress that might not otherwise be obvious in-game.
Audible feedback. Same as tactile, unless you are on teamspeak etc, or find the sound distracting.
Hysteresis. Bad for rapid-fire hits, good for slower precision.
Activation point. Much like hysteresis, what's good for rapid-fire is different to slow precision. Bottoming out to make contact gives zero hysteresis and a form of feedback (the worst kind, but feedback nonetheless.)


Now, having said all that, I'm thinking the ideal gaming switch would activate right at the top of the travel. This could be done by using inverse electrical logic. Contact would normally be made when the key is untouched, and broken when the switch moves down. Logic chips would have to reverse the signal as needed. This would make some of the above choices totally irrelevant.

[AndrewZorn]

and the key would actuate when resting your fingers on it
but see, your post conditions are very subjective, and thus, it is gaming switch PROPERTIES (not switches) that people can argue about all day.

reliability is no more important here than anywhere else,
some like heavy switches,
i hate laptop-style keyboards,
blacks dont have tactile feedback and they are the gaymer switch...

etc

[Rajagra]

and the key would actuate when resting your fingers on it

No, it would be designed with enough pre-tension to stop that happening. E.g. movement only starts when 40g of force is applied, at which point a keystroke is instantly registered.

[ricercar]

I'm having a hard time comparing Cherry Browns to Cherry Blues, because my browns are in a Kinesis Contour configuration, and my blues are in a traditional flat Scorpius M10.

• I like the Kinesis form factor, but I have been getting an artificial audio feedback on the browns. I noticed the difference in no-audio feedback with strong regret when I broke the Kinesis programmable board and the electric click sound stopped working. I hadn't realized I was depending on the ear.
• I find I'm making far more typos on the blue Cherry board than I'm accustomed to with the brown Cherries, or Alps whites in my Northgate. It may simlply be the angle of the board.

What's the difference between blue Cherries in keyboards with a huge price difference, such as a Scorpius M10 and a Filco? What am I getting with the Filco for the extra money?

[bigpook]

others will add to this, but I have had both the filco with blues and the scorpius M10. Aside from both using blue cherry switches, the filco is hands down a better made keyboard. The filco has a quality to it that the scorpius simply does not.

Aside from that, if the scorpius is working for you, and the soldering isn't failing, and you are ok with the overall build quallity,  then the scorpius is fine.

[Rajagra]

I have been getting an artificial audio feedback on the browns. I noticed the difference in no-audio feedback with strong regret when I broke the Kinesis programmable board and the electric click sound stopped working. I hadn't realized I was depending on the ear.

You could try NoisyKeyboard if you are on Windows.

[ricercar]

the filco is hands down a better made keyboard. The filco has a quality to it that the scorpius simply does not. [if] you are ok with the overall build quallity,  then the scorpius is fine.

I was actually pleasantly surprised by the heft of the M10. But it does torque when I twist it. Now I want to hold a Filco, you bastard. :doh:

[microsoft windows]

You can't twist an IBM. At all.

[bigpook]

lol, sorry ricercar. eventually you will get a filco. we all do : )

[microsoft windows]

Perfect gaming keyboard:

Keys should work reliably. No failed keypresses. No bouncing.
Force. Light as possible without getting accidental presses.
Travel. Shorter the better for gaming performance, if truth be told.
Tactile feedback. Irrelevant if you're mashing keys. Useful if you don't and if it genuinely confirms a keypress that might not otherwise be obvious in-game.
Audible feedback. Same as tactile, unless you are on teamspeak etc, or find the sound distracting.
Hysteresis. Bad for rapid-fire hits, good for slower precision.
Activation point. Much like hysteresis, what's good for rapid-fire is different to slow precision. Bottoming out to make contact gives zero hysteresis and a form of feedback (the worst kind, but feedback nonetheless.)


Now, having said all that, I'm thinking the ideal gaming switch would activate right at the top of the travel. This could be done by using inverse electrical logic. Contact would normally be made when the key is untouched, and broken when the switch moves down. Logic chips would have to reverse the signal as needed. This would make some of the above choices totally irrelevant.

You basically said "Complicated ALPS".

[patrickgeekhack]

lol, sorry ricercar. eventually you will get a filco. we all do : )

This is pretty much a given :-) The only blue Cherries keyboard I have is the G80 and my Filco is the brown Cherries version. However, I can imagine blue Cherries Filco to be a pleasant one to type on.

[ricercar]

lol, sorry ricercar. eventually you will get a filco. we all do : )

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
 

You can't twist an IBM. At all.

Can't twist my Lexmark Model Ms, Alaris Model M, Kinesis Contour, or my Northgate. Am I asking too much?

[microsoft windows]

lol, sorry ricercar. eventually you will get a filco. we all do : )

I'll only get one if it's $5 on ebay or in the trash for some strange reason.

[hyperlinked]

Can't twist my Lexmark Model Ms, Alaris Model M, Kinesis Contour, or my Northgate. Am I asking too much?

I guess this begs the question... why are you twisting your keyboards in the first place?

[microsoft windows]

I guess this begs the question... why are you twisting your keyboards in the first place?

Maybe it's a way to test their durability. Cheap rubber dome keyboards always twist.

By the way, do Northgates have double-shot keys?

[Rajagra]

While cruising the hood I saw Ricercar preparing for the Keyboard Tearing Guiness Record.

Good motivation is important.

[bigpook]

damn, someone has the kung fu grip.

[ricercar]

do Northgates have double-shot keys?

Yes, for Northgate Ultra 102.

Letters and numbers - black text within white
Ctrl - red within beige
Shift - green within beige
Others - black within beige

I saw Ricercar preparing for the Keyboard Tearing Guiness Record.

And you wonder why I have all those extra key caps?

[microsoft windows]

Dang Ricercar.  What's the trick!!!

Show Image

Raj, it's the cig that makes that one soooo funny!

Oh no! That's my monitor!

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Your monitor would probably be better for your eyes with a keyboard stuffed through it. 60Hz refresh rate... Awful... but then again, I also have a couple crappy monitors too.

[ch_123]

Nothing wrong with 60Hz... Oh wait, CRTs...

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Nothing wrong with 60Hz... Oh wait, CRTs...

I know CRT's all too well, all I have is CRTs.

[ch_123]

I attribute my still-good eyesight to the fact that there hasn't been a CRT monitor in my house since I was 12 years old...

[microsoft windows]

How could you live without big old monitors?

[keyb_gr]

How could you live without big old monitors?

Perfectly fine, it seems.

My room has also been a CRT-free zone for over 6 years now. Otherwise the kind of time I spend in front of a monitor would not be doable. I must have had burning eyes very often back in the olden days. (Yours truly definitely is more sensitive to flicker than the average person.)

[PRISONER 24601]

How could you live without big old monitors?

I felt the same way until I picked up a good IPS panel

[microsoft windows]

I have never owned a flat panel desktop monitor. But I might get an old Dell one soon if they throw it out...

[porgo]

I recently got me a Filco with brown switches. Have to say, I think I prefer the blue (in Das Keyboard) or something. After years of blueing in, the browns feel like rubber dome

Well, my Filco packs other niceties so I try to adapt.


Edit: oopsy woopsy, bumpity bump.