Is someone here, who quit the hobby and is only lurking now?

[erretter]

We know the memes "It's a money grave" "you can't stop" "it's an addiction" "it's a rabbithole". From my very own experience I can tell: This is all true (to a degree).
So did anybody really quit? I'm trying to slow things down, because too much other stuff is going on in my life, but it's really hard. Since I never smoked, I can't really compare this, but I feel like this is like quitting for a nicotine addict.

[Rhienfo]

It's pretty natural for people to lose interest in hobbies, especially ones that are as materialistic as keyboards can be. I'm still wanting keyboards, but I doubt I will be actively purchasing keyboards in a few years, cause there really is only a few things I really want from this hobby. I'll definitely still be in the hobby if it's around (which I feel it will still be), like helping people or still rebuilding or building boards for other people (and of course resin for me)
plus I will probably still be talking to a lot of the cool people I have met in this hobby.

I feel like if you want to regain your passion in this hobby, you will need to engage more with in the diy aspect of the hobby. Creating cases - handwiring etc. If you've done that and you're still not fulfilled, just move onto something that you feel is worth your time, there really is no shame about it.

I don't really think a nicotine addiction is a very good comparison, it's not like keyboards chemically alter your brain to want more keyboards or something like that.

[Tseg]

I have rotated hobbies for several decades.  The only one I revisited for a few years with additional purchases was my watch collecting… oh, and did buy a specific high end knife after I finally won the maker’s “lottery” after a 4 year wait from my last purchase in the hobby (I could see me doing similar if/when I would get selected for a Key Cult raffle).  I still very much enjoy most of the pieces from most of the hobbies I collected over the years.  There was some downsizing in some hobbies to bare essential grail pieces, like with my camera hobby.

I currently have 7 keyboards (after having given one of my HHKB’s to my son) + waiting on 2 groupbuys (with one also including a numpad).  At this point I feel pretty satiated with keyboards, but pretty much enjoy all the keyboards I own and am glad I dabbled in this hobby, and will continue practicing my typing skills (with my speed having doubled in 3/4 a year and near 100% accuracy).  I imagine I’ll check out KB forums from time to time as I do revisit forums from other hobbies from time to time.  It is interesting how varied forum cultures are, depending what is being collected.  Probably the culture that is most particular that I have trouble getting along with is the snowblower collecting community.  They are crazy opinionated with lots of rules about what can and cannot be said.

[erretter]

Thank you two for sharing your thoughts on this topic. A snowblower community? OMG there really is nothing on this world that can't be turned into a hobby

For me the most time consuming part of the keyboard hobby is research. Searching for the next best thing, researching on others ideas and how they work out. Of course building stuff your self can be pretty time consuming too, but there is just sooooo much to discover. I mean how many switches are out there?!

[Tseg]

Let’s just say I’ve spent much more money on fountain pens than keyboards.  At least my vacuum collection helps keep my house clean.

At a certain point my knowledge has become satiated on some hobby aspects, I mean how much can one learn about stabilizers? then Norbauer re-invents them  , but agree one can become obsessive about learning the nuances.  I do feel like I have come close to reaching the end of the internet on some topics I obsess about.

[Sifo]

depends, keyboards gone, artisans? that **** is crack

[_rubik]

I come and go. The hobby is far more sustainable if you let yourself lose interest every so often. It's also fun seeing all the new products / people / trends when you come back

[Rhienfo]

Thank you two for sharing your thoughts on this topic. A snowblower community? OMG there really is nothing on this world that can't be turned into a hobby

For me the most time consuming part of the keyboard hobby is research. Searching for the next best thing, researching on others ideas and how they work out. Of course building stuff your self can be pretty time consuming too, but there is just sooooo much to discover. I mean how many switches are out there?!

That's not a problem I have now, I kinda know what I want now, and don't really deviate from it, I'll probably just use cherry blacks, browns or like gat x or nixies with like tx springs and a dry lube and nothing else really for all the other few boards that I want to get. For boards and keycaps I just browse geekhack and whatever gets sent in like discords and such. Once you know what you want it's gets a lot easier.

depends, keyboards gone, artisans? that **** is crack

Actually so true about resin

[Tseg]

The KB hobby is still very much in its infancy.   Eventually, high end models will emerge (just look at the 6 and 7 figure watches, 5 figure pens, for example), coffee table books will produced, Christy auctions...  I'm sure when Norbauer launches his 3-figure stabilizers. most will roll their eyes, but the whales will salivate.   Within 5 years their will be a 5-figure keyboard in market, if one does not already exist.  Based on other obscure hobbies I follow there is still a lot of upside in this hobby and mint condition vintage boards will become crazy expensive.

[erretter]

The KB hobby is still very much in its infancy.   Eventually, high end models will emerge (just look at the 6 and 7 figure watches, 5 figure pens, for example), coffee table books will produced, Christy auctions...  I'm sure when Norbauer launches his 3-figure stabilizers. most will roll their eyes, but the whales will salivate.   Within 5 years their will be a 5-figure keyboard in market, if one does not already exist.  Based on other obscure hobbies I follow there is still a lot of upside in this hobby and mint condition vintage boards will become crazy expensive.

Now that is an interesting tought. It's really just a matter of time, until a billionaire like some oil sheikh will demand a luxury KB.

[TomahawkLabs]

The KB hobby is still very much in its infancy.   Eventually, high end models will emerge (just look at the 6 and 7 figure watches, 5 figure pens, for example), coffee table books will produced, Christy auctions...  I'm sure when Norbauer launches his 3-figure stabilizers. most will roll their eyes, but the whales will salivate.   Within 5 years their will be a 5-figure keyboard in market, if one does not already exist.  Based on other obscure hobbies I follow there is still a lot of upside in this hobby and mint condition vintage boards will become crazy expensive.

Now that is an interesting tought. It's really just a matter of time, until a billionaire like some oil sheikh will demand a luxury KB.

This already exists. The price of OG Korean Kustoms already are in the mid 4 figures for just the case/plate,etc. Some artisans go for mad money as well. There are also countless videos on Youtube where someone is making a $5000 custom keyboard for <insert person>.

And we are in the infancy stages of the hobby in the way of nothing is "vintage" yet. Look up the price of an air cooled Porsche 911 in 2004. They were affordable. That same 911 is now worth 10X or more because enough collectors got together and bought up the market and now they are unobtainable to a large swath of drivers. I expect OG and very special run keyboards will command a premium that will never make sense. Same with keycaps. Looking at vintage Signature Plastic sets, most sets are in the low hundreds if not lower in amounts of sets. I have had private DMs for my SA Camping set. Well above the purchase price I made in 2017.

I won't ever sell my set, but similar to vinyl pressed in 2004 there are only a few hundred in the wild and 80% of people don't know what they have and the other 20% don't want to give it up. How many people got into the hobby, build their board(s) and left the online hobby of Keyboards?

[_rubik]

Eventually, high end models will emerge (just look at the 6 and 7 figure watches, 5 figure pens, for example), coffee table books will produced, Christy auctions...

There's an interesting element to this though. Watches and pens are made by small families of highly trained craftsmen. Even in the automotive industry, the _variance_ is pretty small. Keyboards can and are made by anyone. Double down that one open source contributor is supplying the files, another manufacturer is fulfilling, and a third (usually untrained) builder is assembling the whole kit.

Funnily enough, the number of "should I assemble this, or keep the parts untouched" threads I've seen is increasing. People realize that building their keyboards actually might reduce their value. Buys will pay top dollar for new-old-stock, especially the high end boards.

I don't know if this will change, or matters. Keyboards sit somewhere between tradition art and the luxury items you listed. Kit cars are maybe the closest approximation?

[TomahawkLabs]

I don't know if this will change, or matters. Keyboards sit somewhere between tradition art and the luxury items you listed. Kit cars are maybe the closest approximation?

I think the closest parallel would be New Supercars/Hypercars. Even cars like the Porsche 911. It isn't bought by people who want to drive the cars. They are being bought by people who park them in a display garage, trailer them to car shows/events, and then trailer them home. People are specing their cars in such a way that when they sell it, it will be desirable for the next buyer, rather than their dream spec car.

There are near nobody in existence who can drive these cars like the Bugatti, Koenigsegg, McLaren, etc to their limits. These cars are just as much art as they are motor vehicles. So people buying these cars are more interested in the engineering, unobtanium materials to make the parts of the car, etc they actually using this as a tool that can do amazing things.

[_rubik]

I don't know if this will change, or matters. Keyboards sit somewhere between tradition art and the luxury items you listed. Kit cars are maybe the closest approximation?

I think the closest parallel would be New Supercars/Hypercars. Even cars like the Porsche 911. It isn't bought by people who want to drive the cars. They are being bought by people who park them in a display garage, trailer them to car shows/events, and then trailer them home. People are specing their cars in such a way that when they sell it, it will be desirable for the next buyer, rather than their dream spec car.

I don't disagree on the "specing for resale comment" but I think comparing keyboards to hypercars is off the mark. Hypercars aren't made by a hobbyist with some CAD experience in their free time. Ferrari doesn't solicit buyer feedback in a discord. You don't need to buy 4 Norbauer boards before you're invited to buy "the premium model". This community is more grassroots than any car manufacture could dream of being. Even on the most premium end of keyboards, there's plenty of community-minded engagement.

[fohat.digs]

my vacuum collection helps keep my house clean.

I have not bought a keyboard in at least a couple of years, and I have at least half a dozen "favorites" which I really do like but don't use. I am spoilt by the 122 key layout and whenever I use anything smaller I feel deprived.

Rotating one of them in for a week or 2 every few months just reinforces this, and I have several late-1980s boards (Alps (mostly blue or orange/salmon), Monterey, Space Invaders (black), and even Acer) that I would use much more often except for the fact that they frustrate me in just 1 way - that stupid 1U "Backspace" key! Considerable cursing has made it clear that I almost always hit the left side of the 2U ....

If and when I drop down to a small desk, I already have a couple of nice TKL boards that I have transplanted Alps into.

For most of a decade I have been using 122-key terminal Model Fs - modded to [very near] ANSI configuration, and it just feels "right" - everything else now seems like a plastic toy. My laptop is something that I use rarely and just accept it as one of the frustrations of not being in my usual den ....

Oh yes, about the vacuum cleaners - probably 15-20 years ago we needed a new one, and my ex-, who MUST relentlessly research EVERY purchase discovered that there were 2 competing forums (fora?), like GH and DT? But no, there was considerably more acrimony between them. What did we end up with? I don't remember, even though I did the majority of the vacuuming. I think it was yellow and black, and it worked quite well!

[Rhienfo]

The KB hobby is still very much in its infancy.   Eventually, high end models will emerge (just look at the 6 and 7 figure watches, 5 figure pens, for example), coffee table books will produced, Christy auctions...  I'm sure when Norbauer launches his 3-figure stabilizers. most will roll their eyes, but the whales will salivate.   Within 5 years their will be a 5-figure keyboard in market, if one does not already exist.  Based on other obscure hobbies I follow there is still a lot of upside in this hobby and mint condition vintage boards will become crazy expensive.

Now that is an interesting tought. It's really just a matter of time, until a billionaire like some oil sheikh will demand a luxury KB.

This already exists. The price of OG Korean Kustoms already are in the mid 4 figures for just the case/plate,etc. Some artisans go for mad money as well. There are also countless videos on Youtube where someone is making a $5000 custom keyboard for <insert person>.

And we are in the infancy stages of the hobby in the way of nothing is "vintage" yet. Look up the price of an air cooled Porsche 911 in 2004. They were affordable. That same 911 is now worth 10X or more because enough collectors got together and bought up the market and now they are unobtainable to a large swath of drivers. I expect OG and very special run keyboards will command a premium that will never make sense. Same with keycaps. Looking at vintage Signature Plastic sets, most sets are in the low hundreds if not lower in amounts of sets. I have had private DMs for my SA Camping set. Well above the purchase price I made in 2017.

I won't ever sell my set, but similar to vinyl pressed in 2004 there are only a few hundred in the wild and 80% of people don't know what they have and the other 20% don't want to give it up. How many people got into the hobby, build their board(s) and left the online hobby of Keyboards?

honestly I feel that we will be on the cusp on how "premium" keyboards will get imo. I don't think we'll ever get to a point where 10k keyboards are even a rarity. Also a lot of the prices are going down on a lot of things, with very few things retaining their value from the pandemic where things were at their highest. I don't think the hobby is as sustainable as cars because a lot less people are into keyboards than they are cars. Unless we get another global pandemic soon I don't think it's gonna get to that point.

[Tseg]

I don't think the hobby is as sustainable as cars because a lot less people are into keyboards than they are cars.

Globally, a lot more people use keyboards than cars.  All hobbies ebb and flow in value, but as long as people use keyboards, they will remain relevant and collectable.  Coins are still collectable, meanwhile collecting stamps is waning, but there are are still some that collectors pay 10's of thousands (check that) MILLIONS OF DOLLARS for specific stamps or sets of stamps.  There are 6-figure collectable knives, for crying out loud.  My most expensive knife costs more than my Smith + Rune collector's edition copper keyboard and numpad combo I'm waiting on, and the knife is just (a cool) CNC'd piece of metal with some anodization.

[Tseg]

Oh yes, about the vacuum cleaners - probably 15-20 years ago we needed a new one... I don't remember, even though I did the majority of the vacuuming. I think it was yellow and black, and it worked quite well!

Nice.  Sounds like a Miele U1 Jazz.  I still have one dedicated on my 3rd floor.

[TomahawkLabs]

honestly I feel that we will be on the cusp on how "premium" keyboards will get imo. I don't think we'll ever get to a point where 10k keyboards are even a rarity. Also a lot of the prices are going down on a lot of things, with very few things retaining their value from the pandemic where things were at their highest. I don't think the hobby is as sustainable as cars because a lot less people are into keyboards than they are cars. Unless we get another global pandemic soon I don't think it's gonna get to that point.

I am not so sure. The cheapest driver/enthusiast oriented cars still run around $5k + all the upkeep, etc. The Cheapest keyboards are $40 or less, complete. Cars just have utilitarian value and mechanical keyboards offer "feelz" as we use our computers. We aren't into the realm of crazy materials or branding. If Ferrari released a carbon fiber/aluminum, painted keyboard it would easily cost over 10k. Have Hermes leather wrap a wrest rest, 10k. Engrave the Louis V logo in the case, make 200 and give 50 to celebrities to post on Insta and charge 20k, some people will buy it. Even brands putting a screenprinted logo on a white shirt can command hundreds/thousands (Supreme).

Every car person I've ever met drools over cars like the F40, McLaren F1, etc. They will likely never see the car IRL let alone drive it or own it. But they exists for certain circles who can afford them. I haven't seen any real luxury or boutique brands selling you a vision/lifestyle/etc through keyboards yet. Keyboards are very grass roots and very second hand friendly. Because of this the options for nice, but affordable keyboards are wide. This is largely a great thing.

I am not sure what a 10k keyboard would look like, but add enough fancy materials, finishes, and brand collabs and you are likely not far off.

[_rubik]

I don't think the hobby is as sustainable as cars because a lot less people are into keyboards than they are cars.

Globally, a lot more people use keyboards than cars.

"use" != "are hobbyists"

[Rhienfo]

honestly I feel that we will be on the cusp on how "premium" keyboards will get imo. I don't think we'll ever get to a point where 10k keyboards are even a rarity. Also a lot of the prices are going down on a lot of things, with very few things retaining their value from the pandemic where things were at their highest. I don't think the hobby is as sustainable as cars because a lot less people are into keyboards than they are cars. Unless we get another global pandemic soon I don't think it's gonna get to that point.

I am not so sure. The cheapest driver/enthusiast oriented cars still run around $5k + all the upkeep, etc. The Cheapest keyboards are $40 or less, complete. Cars just have utilitarian value and mechanical keyboards offer "feelz" as we use our computers. We aren't into the realm of crazy materials or branding. If Ferrari released a carbon fiber/aluminum, painted keyboard it would easily cost over 10k. Have Hermes leather wrap a wrest rest, 10k. Engrave the Louis V logo in the case, make 200 and give 50 to celebrities to post on Insta and charge 20k, some people will buy it. Even brands putting a screenprinted logo on a white shirt can command hundreds/thousands (Supreme).

Every car person I've ever met drools over cars like the F40, McLaren F1, etc. They will likely never see the car IRL let alone drive it or own it. But they exists for certain circles who can afford them. I haven't seen any real luxury or boutique brands selling you a vision/lifestyle/etc through keyboards yet. Keyboards are very grass roots and very second hand friendly. Because of this the options for nice, but affordable keyboards are wide. This is largely a great thing.

I am not sure what a 10k keyboard would look like, but add enough fancy materials, finishes, and brand collabs and you are likely not far off.

Hmmm, wasn't really considering that mainstream brands would get into the luxury keyboard game. The only mainstream clothing brand that has sold a keyboard was tommy hilfiger, which sold some crappy oem for 150 dollars. But that is an interesting perspective. Maybe one luxury company will find out how much people are paying for customs and see dollar signs, and that's maybe when the retail price will be in 5 digits. But idk if they would ever care to put that much r&d into a product like that. I guess we will have to see.

"use" != "are hobbyists"

Yeah what I meant there was in a hobbyist sense, but It wasn't worded that explicitly so I can understand why someone would think otherwise.

[Mandan]

I've been collecting IBM keyboards since 1987.

I'm sure I could give it up any time, if I wanted to.

[Findecanor]

I'm somewhat annoyed by some people's narrow definitions of "the hobby".

I'm on this board because I type a lot every day and want good tools and I like to create and modify things. That is what Geekhack was about when I registered a long time ago. But apparently there are people who are here only because they have been bit by a collecting bug. I avoid the shiny colourful stuff: it is not for me.

What I do like is that the widening of keyboards as a hobby has nurtured keyboard evolution, so that there not exist even affordable ready-to-buy keyboards with interesting useful features and technical solutions. Not many years ago, you couldn't buy a gasket-mounted keyboard with hot-swapping sockets, without having to solder it yourself, but now you can.

[Rhienfo]

I'm somewhat annoyed by some people's narrow definitions of "the hobby".

I'm on this board because I type a lot every day and want good tools and I like to create and modify things. That is what Geekhack was about when I registered a long time ago. But apparently there are people who are here only because they have been bit by a collecting bug. I avoid the shiny colourful stuff: it is not for me.

What I do like is that the widening of keyboards as a hobby has nurtured keyboard evolution, so that there not exist even affordable ready-to-buy keyboards with interesting useful features and technical solutions. Not many years ago, you couldn't buy a gasket-mounted keyboard with hot-swapping sockets, without having to solder it yourself, but now you can.

I mean I think the collection aspect will always be an integral part of being in the hobby, but I agree that it is narrow to think of the hobby like that. It's bound to happen especially with custom keyboards being such a core part now (though a better name might be customisable keyboards...)

I don't get annoyed but more confused when people just don't put that much effort into assembling the boards. I always tell people to actually take the time to mod switches properly (breaking them in, spring swapping them, lubing them), lube stabs properly and to solder, not only cause of the benefits but because it feels a lot more rewarding and engaging with the diy aspects of keyboards to solder rather than put them in and it's done (Not that hotswap is bad btw, it's amazing for experimentation and you probably should have one hotswap keyboard just for experimenting with new stuff). Plus you get to learn a pretty useful skill.

I get why some people don't, some people just want a keyboard but if you have several mx keyboards without putting that effort I think it's pretty antithetical to some of the core aspects of the "hobby" which are creating the best keyboard for you, while experimenting and customizing everything along the way. I don't even blame people for falling into that mindset of aesthetic and sound over function and feel, it's far more appealing to a person getting into everything and they are the only aspects that can transfer into an audio and visual medium like youtube or tiktok, which is how I feel most people are finding out about the hobby today.

My first reply in this thread is pretty representative of how I feel about what you said I feel, that the hobby is pretty fleeting if you exclusively engage with the materialistic aspects and the things that will engage you in the long term are the more diy aspects.