Nice thread, I was pretty curious about this. On a side note, what equipment do you use/recommend for soldering and do you have any cheaper alternatives if you are currently using a ridiculously expensive iron?
I'm interested in the blue lube job (hehehehe). But seriously, I'm curious how exactly it affects mx blues.
I love your pictures. It's like switch porn.this is generally why people use dry lubes (eg, ro-59) on stems. a dry lube is usually some micro-scale material like teflon balls in suspension in a very light oil. the oil carries the actual solid lubricant material into the joint to be lubed, and then because it's so light, evaporates, leaving only the solids. the solids then act kind of like bearings to lower the coefficient of friction and material wear in the joint.
I use the silicone lube from Elite Keyboards. I just finished lubing my stems the other day, but I only lightly lubed the stem where it contacts the metal flap. I'll try lubing the sliders too, but I was afraid too much lube would invite dust.
Was it my arguments and pic on DT that convinced you to try 205?
MMB and Akimbo, where did you guys get your Dupont silicone liquid? Googling is only giving me the aerosol version.
MMB and Akimbo, where did you guys get your Dupont silicone liquid? Googling is only giving me the aerosol version.
Lowes has it in the tools/hardware section.
MMB and Akimbo, where did you guys get your Dupont silicone liquid? Googling is only giving me the aerosol version.
Lowes has it in the tools/hardware section.
Sweet, I don't have to go online to buy special keyboard lube. Stickered, lubed, Ergo-clears here I come (once demik gets the stickers and the switches)
MMB and Akimbo, where did you guys get your Dupont silicone liquid? Googling is only giving me the aerosol version.
Lowes has it in the tools/hardware section.
Sweet, I don't have to go online to buy special keyboard lube. Stickered, lubed, Ergo-clears here I come (once demik gets the stickers and the switches)
DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO
(switches come in tomorrow and stickers close tomorrow :D)
Any recommendations to lube 100 switches without taking 4 hours??
this **** is nuts, I'm trying to do it with a toothpick, and in 15 minutes i only got like 5 switches
Does the Teflon silicone lubricant dry super fast? I just tried lubing a switch, but it evaporated away so quickly it might be hard to apply without using a ton of it. Also does the Teflon silicone dry to a film or does it say "wet"?
not upside downthis **** is nuts, I'm trying to do it with a toothpick, and in 15 minutes i only got like 5 switches
It also depends on how thorough you are with the lube. Because that sounds about right. I open about 20 at a time, and set them on the table, and lube each spring, then go back and lube the top of the springs and set the stems in all of them, then lube them. Kinda like an assembly line. Reaper and I think Demik have a metal piece that holds switches and stems upside-down which looks amazing. Wish I had one.
Im planning to lube my doxes and phantoms and hopefully sticker them if i can get my hands on stickers. Is that krytox the best recommended stuff?
I will have some spare stickers when they ship from Demik's GB. I will hit you up when they arrive.thanks a bunch and ill look into the krytox greese, i believe someone said it was available on ebay?
As of now, I prefer the krytox grease. But again, it's really a personal thing... like different switches have different feels to them. The grease gives it a much smoother feel, but also more muted acoustically depending on how much and where you place it.Im planning to lube my doxes and phantoms and hopefully sticker them if i can get my hands on stickers. Is that krytox the best recommended stuff?
@MM - have you ever used both the Teflon lubricant and the Krytox on the same switch. I would think the Teflon stuff would be better suited for the springs, while the Krytox would be better for the sliders. I vaguely remember reading this somewhere too? Have you tested this?
I have been playing around with that, yes. I am in the middle of moving right now, so my work has been on hold, but I plan on posting more on this very soon. My initial findings were pretty positive, but as time consuming as it was, I couldn't be as thorough as I would have liked to be.
damn, i hate working with more than one switch open at a time. i have a wonderful habit of bending leaves when there are multiple switches open :(not upside downthis **** is nuts, I'm trying to do it with a toothpick, and in 15 minutes i only got like 5 switches
It also depends on how thorough you are with the lube. Because that sounds about right. I open about 20 at a time, and set them on the table, and lube each spring, then go back and lube the top of the springs and set the stems in all of them, then lube them. Kinda like an assembly line. Reaper and I think Demik have a metal piece that holds switches and stems upside-down which looks amazing. Wish I had one.
like thisShow Image(http://i47.tinypic.com/34r6m4p.jpg)
At least you didn't put switch bottoms in a ziplock without their tops on... I lost a fair amount from that...looks at my bags of pcb mount switch bottoms...
MMB, how do you like your new 65cN springs & stickers?
I'm looking forward to reading it. Do you have any other custom springs to compare?
@MMB, what kind of liquid that you are using to clean the old lube on old/vintage switches?
Has anyone tried dipping the springs in 75w90 gear oil with LSD additive? I.e. this stuff? (http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-01300-Performance-Automotive/dp/B0007QGT34)
I've heard that this is the Koreans preferred method, along with Krytox on the sliders.
this would smell terrible.
this would smell terrible.
I don't typically smell my keyboards, but ok :P
Cool thanks! Maybe I'll just try that then for my first attempt at lubing! (Also considering something limmy mentioned; using GPL-205 as a base and putting a coat of GPL-105 on top of it for the sliders).
Approx. how many switches can you get through with 1oz. of GPL-205, using it on the sliders and where the spring meets the housing & slider?
I found the silicone Teflon DuPont at Lowes, that's what I'll be using once I get my stickers from DemikI was probably going to go with a krytox variant as its said to be the best but i dont know what variant to go with.
I am leaning towards Krytox 205 grease for everything but clicky stems at this point. It's pretty amazing stuff.well im going ergo clears and/or vintage blacks + 62g springs so i think im fine with that.
I found the silicone Teflon DuPont at Lowes, that's what I'll be using once I get my stickers from DemikI was probably going to go with a krytox variant as its said to be the best but i dont know what variant to go with.
It's so expensive compared to the DuPont. 4oz for $5 and it's plastic safe so that's what I'm going to use. IMO lube is lube
IMO lube is lubeimo your o is too simplistic :P
Just arrived:O.O where can i get one? Im going to be lubing lots of keyboards that would assist me greatly.Show Image(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/27e44019.jpg)
O.O where can i get one? Im going to be lubing lots of keyboards that would assist me greatly.
I have browsed through your guide, MagicMeatball. It is a nice article! I am glad to see more people are experimenting. From experiment results from many people, I hope this post expands and evolves to a even better guide.
I have one comment on the lubing clicky switches. Why would you disassemble the white part of the stem and lube the points indicated in the OP? I understand the points if your goal is to reduce clicking sound, but if it is for smoother sliding action then it is probably not the place to lube. In my personal experience blues were generally more scratch. I think polishing the blue slider part (where it touches the groves) with fine compound would make is less scratch.(I haven't tried this, but it is my conjecture.)
On more thing on Krytox grease and oils. Base oil of GPL205 is GPL105. GPL grease is just GPL oil thickened with PTFE thickener and the last digit of the grease model number indicates which oil was used as base oil.
Krytox grease and oils mix very well, so you could thin any Krytox grease with lighter Krytox oil or the same base oil. For instance, if you want less viscous oil than 105, you could purchase GPL 100(the lightest variant of Krytox GPL oil, available in ebay) and mix.
I have tried GPL 100 on blue MX switches and it didn't kill the click. I applied the lube on the switch housing (black plastic that holds the slider) with a brush. It smoothed the sliding action, but the difference was rather subtle.
If you want to see whether you like certain types of lube jobs, I suggest you lube more than a couple (at least 4 switches) and press them with all of your fingers and try to type. Some lube jobs feels fine when tested individually, but doesn't feel very nice when trying to type fast.
I hope my comments helped.
Thanks, Limmy! I ordered a GPL 100. Can't wait to try it.
How well does the grease and oil mix together? Or do they not mix, but coat each other?
I might try to put a GB together for this if there is enough interest.
Thanks!
If anyone has any donor Alps switches, I might look into adding a guide for that as well. I haven't take one apart yet :)i have a minitouch without a case i could trade you for something :) white XM.
I tried lubricating MX blue switches on my dolch pac board. But the lube seems eliminating the clicky sound as well as reducing the friction. Will that sound get back after several days of break-in or typing?
I tried lubricating MX blue switches on my dolch pac board. But the lube seems eliminating the clicky sound as well as reducing the friction. Will that sound get back after several days of break-in or typing?
Did you over-lube the stems? I mentioned that in the guide. It's a very touchy spot. If you put too much, it will kill the click. It also depends on what you used to lube it with. If the viscosity is too high, it will kill the click. If it's low viscosity, and you add just a very trace amount, it should be fine. Try a couple different switches, using different lube and smaller amounts.
Hah, I think I have tried to put the amount as small as possible. Is there any solution for this? to bring the clicky sound back? I used GLP 103 for the stems (all two part of the stem) and silicone oil for the springs.
Thanks for posting your findings with us, OddOne! Would you mind sharing some photos or maybe a how-to for the Alps switches? I haven't gotten a donor board to build a how-to myself, and would appreciate if you would share with the community :)
One thing that hardly got touched on, was the dirt and dust problem. A long time ago, I read a few times that lubing these switches is great and all, but it also attracts dust.Was there really dust problem? Could it have been hypothetical? If it really happened what type of lube was used?
MM, I am curious if you could give us a description of the switch feel difference you've found using the KRY205, and why you're so sold on it.
Well, I can try to explain the key feel using krytox 205 grease, but honestly, you just need to try it out for yourself.
It's just a better feel; it's smoother, quieter and just feels more solid. I probably fail at explaining it, but let me just say that it's totally worth investing in a tube
and trying it.
ot: sweet keypad dude!Thanks for posting your findings with us, OddOne! Would you mind sharing some photos or maybe a how-to for the Alps switches? I haven't gotten a donor board to build a how-to myself, and would appreciate if you would share with the community :)
Firstly, I'm no good with a camera and the sun is fading here, so I'll try for some better shots another day. For now, here is the only half decent shot I got of the switch tonight. I'll throw in a picture of the MicroPad as well to show off the paint job ;).
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
On the left side you see the upper Alps casing with the slider, leaf spring, and coil spring installed. On the right is the lower casing with switch mechanism installed. As stated above my lube points included where the slider meets the casing and where the spring meets the slider & casing.
- First, with a small tip paint brush I applied the Teflon Silicone lube in both channel guides of the upper casing. I was fairly liberal here with the lube and in turn did no lube the sliders at all.
- With the sliders back in place, next I applied lube to one end of the spring and inserted it into the slider. Again I used a decent dose here, because the spring guide on the slider is fairly large on an Alps switch.
- Finally with the spring in the slider I put a small amount of lube on the opposite end and snapped the switch back together.
- At this point I pressed the switch a few times to try to distribute the lube evenly throughout the sliders/channels and on the springs.
Hopefully this is helpful to some. Post comments or questions and I'll try to help!
Cheers,
OddOne
ot: sweet keypad dude!Thanks sth! I bought this to be a modding practice board, but it ended up to be a pretty cool desk piece.
OddOne - Yes I did, thank you. Sorry I haven't updated the thread in a while. I will try to get something going soon with the alps switches :)Not trying to rush you ;). Just making sure they go there ok.
So, I'm pretty sure I ran into a problem while trying to lube my keyboard... I have a Ducky Shine II, and apparently there's a metal plate that buts up directly under the switches making the removal of the cap nearly impossible. Is my only option to open it up and remove the plate temporarily? Or should I scrap the lube idea all together?I think you will need to desolder the switches for plate mount boards.
There's also an LED there, but looks as though it should just stay in place when I lift the cap.
I spent last night stickering my poker and swapping to lubed ergo-clears! I used a mix of gpl-205 and gpl-103 for the sliders and victorinox multi tool oil for the springs. It is sooo quiet and is a dream to type on! It definitely feels much better than my non-lubed filco with ergo clears. The stickers pretty much eliminate pcb-mount switch wobble, and they also lowered the pitch of the sound. All around awesome. If it wasn't such a PITA I would do this to all of my boards!I am glad you liked my suggestions. It definitely feels better, doesn't it? I must agree that the time and effort that go into the mod is pretty significant.
I spent last night stickering my poker and swapping to lubed ergo-clears! I used a mix of gpl-205 and gpl-103 for the sliders and victorinox multi tool oil for the springs. It is sooo quiet and is a dream to type on! It definitely feels much better than my non-lubed filco with ergo clears. The stickers pretty much eliminate pcb-mount switch wobble, and they also lowered the pitch of the sound. All around awesome. If it wasn't such a PITA I would do this to all of my boards!
You really need to work on trying to find one of these:Show Image(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q603/magicmeatballs/27e44019.jpg)
it will make the task much simpler. You can also use a plate from an old keyboard as well, and create some makeshift legs to prop it up, if you cant find the official one.
I finished my Poker tonight! It feels so amazing and is so quiet, even quieter than the only rubber dome in the house. I used a regular clear spring for the spacebar.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WILq5.jpg)
It's at least 23 x 4, might be larger because you can't see the rest of it off camera. Dam that thing is long. *In b4 "that's what she said" joke*
Lubing station??? How did this happen? What is krytox normally used for? Anybody use deoxit? Any difference frim them?
I think they're most commonly used for lubing the wheels of pinewood derby cars.
Anyone know places to buy lube that might ship to Australia? Going to be modding Blacks to ghetto Reds and would like to lube it in the process.
I went with the gpl 205 as well though it stuck on the east coast at the moment preventing me from lubing.
I agreed with Ergo Clears feeling like topre's.
they feel like the actuation of a topre so idk if wait matters. i only have 45g topre to compare to i havent lube ergos yet but will be on the third KMAC im building.I agreed with Ergo Clears feeling like topre's.
What kind of topre? 55g, 45g, or 30g?
well it feels 'heavier' than my 45g. i haven't tried 55g so I couldn't say for sure.I agreed with Ergo Clears feeling like topre's.
What kind of topre? 55g, 45g, or 30g?
Damn, $20-30 is a lot for enough lube for likely every board here on GH...
They sell any smaller bottles?
i have not read through the whole thread... but, i do have some suggestions... years ago i used to race R/C cars and there are lots of dry-type spray lubes that you spray on/in, it evaporates very quickly & leaves a slick surface, not wet, but slick. almost all of these are safe on electronics. before the "big boom" in gas R/C cars, everything was electric motors & NiCad batteries.... Yes, NiCad. electric motor spray may also be good to clean out old/lube-coagulated switches. we used motor spray regularly to clean out the electric motors after races or while breaking in a new motor to clean the comm while the brushes were wearing in. if you have a local hobby shop, pop-in & see what they have, you might be surprised.
Hell, you may even be able to depress the stem, and spray some in. (while keyboard is unplugged of course! the aerosol propellant is probably flammable, just to be safe) without having to open switch or desolder.
i have not read through the whole thread... but, i do have some suggestions... years ago i used to race R/C cars and there are lots of dry-type spray lubes that you spray on/in, it evaporates very quickly & leaves a slick surface, not wet, but slick. almost all of these are safe on electronics.What sort of technology do these lubricants you speak of use?
However, I believe people have reported very poor results when applying lube without removing the switch top, ruining the feel of the switch.
Hi everyone,
A question, is it possible to lube switch with ky? I have a friend who are a distributor of ky. I can get them for free and as much as I want :)
I read some random stuff about ergo-clears supposedly 'sticking'. Would lubricating help this?probably but the 100% new ones ive always put together have never stuck
Anyone have a source for Krytox GPL 103? Seems like 205 is good for sliders, but I want some 103 for the springs.205 good for springs too though needs a little bit of work in
I read some random stuff about ergo-clears supposedly 'sticking'. Would lubricating help this?
sounds like you need an upgrade to 62g gold korean springs ;)I read some random stuff about ergo-clears supposedly 'sticking'. Would lubricating help this?
I had a key sticking after I modded my Poker to Ergo Clears with stickers and lube. Tried to lube it a little more but that didn't help it. I think sticking just happens when you get an unlucky combination of spring + stem + housing. Mainly the spring - if it is slightly lighter then it won't push the stem back up properly.
will this stuff work?
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8217/8358983760_ddd297ceb2.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/8358983760/)
Anyone have a source for Krytox GPL 103? Seems like 205 is good for sliders, but I want some 103 for the springs.
Sorry, I know this is the "switch lube" thread, but since it seems many of you have used the 205, do you recommend that lube for cherry space bar stabilizers, or should I just stick with MechLube?go with the 205 if youve got the scratch
If the 205 is better, is this the right stuff (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-GPL-205-Grease-oz-SCUBA-Oxygen-Nitrox-/270726776537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0892c6d9)?
Thanks.
Sorry, I know this is the "switch lube" thread, but since it seems many of you have used the 205, do you recommend that lube for cherry space bar stabilizers, or should I just stick with MechLube?
If the 205 is better, is this the right stuff (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-GPL-205-Grease-oz-SCUBA-Oxygen-Nitrox-/270726776537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0892c6d9)?
Thanks.
Sorry, I know this is the "switch lube" thread, but since it seems many of you have used the 205, do you recommend that lube for cherry space bar stabilizers, or should I just stick with MechLube?
If the 205 is better, is this the right stuff (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-GPL-205-Grease-oz-SCUBA-Oxygen-Nitrox-/270726776537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0892c6d9)?
Thanks.
That is the right stuff. I bought from that exact tube from that seller.
Speaking of which, I just came back from a 3-day trip and my lubed Ergo Clears somehow feel a lot smoother than when I first lubed them 2 days prior to the trip. Very happy with it :)
I've been stickering and lubing and have come across this problem as well. I've been using Superlube on both the spring and sliders, imsto thick caps, and blue springs I harvested from a QFR. Is a slightly heavier spring really the only option? And is 62g really enough?sounds like you need an upgrade to 62g gold korean springs ;)I read some random stuff about ergo-clears supposedly 'sticking'. Would lubricating help this?
I had a key sticking after I modded my Poker to Ergo Clears with stickers and lube. Tried to lube it a little more but that didn't help it. I think sticking just happens when you get an unlucky combination of spring + stem + housing. Mainly the spring - if it is slightly lighter then it won't push the stem back up properly.
Switch stickers like the ones in this old GB: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34446.0, but when I talk about keys "sticking" I literally mean upon depressing the springs have some trouble pushing the stems back up, and I'm not sure if lubricant might be a culprit in this.Did u put too much lube on?
Switch stickers like the ones in this old GB: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34446.0, but when I talk about keys "sticking" I literally mean upon depressing the springs have some trouble pushing the stems back up, and I'm not sure if lubricant might be a culprit in this.Did u put too much lube on?
Leslieann the Lubimatrix says you must only use a tiny microscopic amount. I can't remember exactly but I think a few drops for the whole entire keyboard was the right amount. So I guess 1/30th drop per switch. I donno. I never did it myself. I'm a LubeNewb :p
I don't think I'd be able to do this to my Das unless I desolder every switch.Dont give up so easily!
Ouch, this is way too much time. Has anyone tried Deoxit/FaderLube spray or dropper, and just pushing down the stem and flooding the switch without opening it? It's not an expensive lube, and you can clean up what leaks on the PCB afterwards. Anyone tried this brute force method ?yep it works just not as well
Yeah, I've flooded a couple of scratchy red switches on my Poker with general purpose oil, and had to clean the PCB afterwards because the oil leaked, but I'm debating if I want to do that to an entire keyboard, or go the tedious route of opening switches and using high tech grease. Some folks have mentioned that flooding switches with oil would eventually attract dirt and jam the switches but it's mostly speculation, not sure if anyone has actual experienced this.Not direct experience, but I did open some year old, unlubed switches, they were pristine.
Yeah, I've flooded a couple of scratchy red switches on my Poker with general purpose oil, and had to clean the PCB afterwards because the oil leaked, but I'm debating if I want to do that to an entire keyboard, or go the tedious route of opening switches and using high tech grease. Some folks have mentioned that flooding switches with oil would eventually attract dirt and jam the switches but it's mostly speculation, not sure if anyone has actual experienced this.
Yeah, I've flooded a couple of scratchy red switches on my Poker with general purpose oil, and had to clean the PCB afterwards because the oil leaked, but I'm debating if I want to do that to an entire keyboard, or go the tedious route of opening switches and using high tech grease. Some folks have mentioned that flooding switches with oil would eventually attract dirt and jam the switches but it's mostly speculation, not sure if anyone has actual experienced this.
This is NOT a good idea, different lubricants have different conductivity properties, I once rebuilt an high performance and expensive electric motor completely cleaning and re-lubing the internals (which were running with a lot of friction), the motor now will not even turn unless you force it by hand as the lubricant is non conductive and has ruined the contact points.
Don't make the same mistake as I did!!!!! DON'T lube the contacts I say!
According to everything I have read, Cherry lubes the contact points of Cherry MX switches and that is the only part that they lube.
Since it is already allegedly lubed there is no need to relube the contacts.
This is what over $600 in lube looks like.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HviSo1Q.jpg)
Nice. Did you run a GB on those or something? So basically $40 per tube? My GPL-103 was about $45 shipped for 1oz
I'm guessing GPL 200 grease is a thinner version of the 205?
How many ounces / ml in each tube?
I was just going over my numbers and freaking out a little... Until I realized I donated €10 to DT...
EDIT: All orders were rounded up to the nearest 50cents so there should have been a few dollars extra. Especially with the gift payments by some people. But I was negative $1.85 because I donated €10 to DT. I should have added 50cents more to every order. :))
^ I saw that and almost got in on it, but I want oil, not grease. Are you planning on another GB for 100/103/105?
I ran a GB over on DT, where were you guys? Krytox GPL 200 is 100 in grease form. So yes it is thinner than 205, but it is not a thinner version of 205.
I ran a GB over on DT, where were you guys? Krytox GPL 200 is 100 in grease form. So yes it is thinner than 205, but it is not a thinner version of 205.
Well I'm never on DT, if I'd known I would have probably bought a tube to compare 103, 200, 205, and combinations of them.
Well if 100 is a thinner form of 105, and 205 is just the grease version of the 105 oil, then how is 200 not a thinner version of 205 grease? Do you have some 205 to compare? I'm thinking this 200 grease is almost the equivalent of a mixture of 103 and 205.
I'm in the process of building up a Poker and I'm slowly making my way through the thread to read every post, but I couldn't resist asking a couple of TL;DR questions. I hope you don't mind.
1. How Often Do You Need To Lube?
Another way of saying it -- how long does it last? There are several mods that I can do to the switches and/or the plate so that I can get back into the switches without desoldering, but I was just curious if it's even needed. To get back into the switches that is.
I'm sure a lot depends on how much you use your board, but I'm just curious what the average is.
2. Are Blues Worth Lubing?
From what I've read thus far, it sounds like MX-Blues are the most troublesome when it comes to lubing them due to the click. Is it worth going through the trouble?
Thanks in advance and hopefully my questions can help others that are still learning, like me.
Blues aren't worth owning much less lubing (lol, I hate blues).
Some oils and greases degrade over time. Krytox does not, so if you use Krytox you'll never have to relube because of degradation. I prefer the krytox greases as they stay where you put them, unlike the krytox oils that get EVERYWHERE... I will probably start my second Krytox GB in a month or so. All 8 greases 200-207 will be in it.
Some oils and greases degrade over time. Krytox does not, so if you use Krytox you'll never have to relube because of degradation. I prefer the krytox greases as they stay where you put them, unlike the krytox oils that get EVERYWHERE... I will probably start my second Krytox GB in a month or so. All 8 greases 200-207 will be in it.
What lube would you recommend as a light oil, for clicky switches?
Do you have a personal preference of the Krytox greases? I have only used 205, are any significantly better than another or is it worth trying out different ones?
What lube would you recommend as a light oil, for clicky switches?
It is 'usually' recommended to NOT lube clicky switches...
Do you have a personal preference of the Krytox greases? I have only used 205, are any significantly better than another or is it worth trying out different ones?
I just did a GB for 200, but I have not had the time to try it out yet though. I just shipped the last of them off yesterday. I expect that I will like it a lot more than my 205 though as it is less viscous. It's all up to personal preference though, so try away.
1. How Often Do You Need To Lube?1. There is too many variables to say.
Another way of saying it -- how long does it last? There are several mods that I can do to the switches and/or the plate so that I can get back into the switches without desoldering, but I was just curious if it's even needed. To get back into the switches that is.
I'm sure a lot depends on how much you use your board, but I'm just curious what the average is.
2. Are Blues Worth Lubing?
From what I've read thus far, it sounds like MX-Blues are the most troublesome when it comes to lubing them due to the click. Is it worth going through the trouble?
It is 'usually' recommended to NOT lube clicky switches...You can lube them just fine.
This was done last year, but I finally uploaded it. Might help if you're doing it for the first time or just want to be thorough. I'll upload one like this for lubing costar and cherry stabilizers as well after I edit the video.
For the sake of science I opened and lubed my Kinesis' thumb switches. On the left thumbcluster I put Deoxit FaderLube F100 oil, and on the right I put Finish Line Extreme Fluoro grease (same as Krytox 203 or maybe 204).
I could use your advice about lubricating my keyboard (or not).
I currently own a CM Storm Trigger with MX Browns--it's fairly new. The keys feel great, but they do have that slight friction, going down--some of the switches have it more noticeably. Pushing a key down slowly, I feel friction past actuation point. Has that teeth-grinding quality--difficult to describe. It's not audible, but I can feel it.
Does this imply my switches need additional lubrication? Or is that normal for MX Browns?
Moreover, is it going to be a pain to lubricate if my switches are plate-mounted? Having looked at the guide on the first page, it looks like I need to actually disassemble the entire keyboard to lubricate properly?
I could use your advice about lubricating my keyboard (or not).
I currently own a CM Storm Trigger with MX Browns--it's fairly new. The keys feel great, but they do have that slight friction, going down--some of the switches have it more noticeably. Pushing a key down slowly, I feel friction past actuation point. Has that teeth-grinding quality--difficult to describe. It's not audible, but I can feel it.
Does this imply my switches need additional lubrication? Or is that normal for MX Browns?
Moreover, is it going to be a pain to lubricate if my switches are plate-mounted? Having looked at the guide on the first page, it looks like I need to actually disassemble the entire keyboard to lubricate properly?
Try and break them in a little and see if that feeling goes away. Sometimes just sitting there and actuating the switch repeatedly will make it feel better. If that doesn't help and you don't want to desolder everything and open up every switch, you can try the Ripster method of lubing and spray some DeoxIT Fader into the switches.
Ripster was perma-banned, and all his posts and wikis were deleted. You will probably find it on Reddit or his Imgur account -> http://ripster.imgur.com/ (http://ripster.imgur.com/)
Thank you much. I guess I'll contact him on OCN and ask about this spray lubrication deal, as it's very attractive at the moment. I have a feeling I'll end up doing a full-on diligent lubrication eventually anyway, as I get very picky about doing things right, but for now it would be a good start!
General question about stock keyboard switches though: do they come pre-lubricated, or do manufacturers just leave them plain? Mechanical switches are supposed to last for a long time, and so I'm surprised they don't have good lubrication to start with when pre-installed. Or maybe it's just some brands that don't lubricate? Sorry, probably a very newbie question :(
mmm, just got to lube some browns with gpl205. Maybe its a little too heavy D: It feels almost like red switches after lubing!
mmm, just got to lube some browns with gpl205. Maybe its a little too heavy D: It feels almost like red switches after lubing!
That's how they should feel. No more scratchy!
yeah I suppose, but I do wish it was smooth BUT still tactile enough lol. Yeah maybe I should try Ergo Clears lubed lol.
I used PTFE (Teflon) to lube brand new MX Blacks and it actually made them stiffer. I wouldn't touch new switches.
Have you guys lubricated "new" black switches, including the spring? If so, how would you describe the change (if there was a noticeable change)? Wondering if lubricating would make them a tad easier to press.Lubrication very rarely makes them easier to press. That isn't the attraction. Lubing makes the action smoother. If you use grease then you will definitely notice that the switch is stiffer, if you use an oil or a mixture or an oil & grease then it only feel a little heavier, if at all.
quick question again: is a mix of 105 oil and 205 grease suitable for springs/stem or is the mixture too viscous still?
If I drop a couple of droplets above the switch while the top of it is depressed (oil entering the caved-in area around the main 'cross'), what areas will the oil be able to access after I press the switch a few times?
Will it reach all areas around the top? Will it reach the spring on the inside?
Hrm, that's encouraging because I have developed the following brutal method:
If it's flooded, blowing compressed air in it pushes everything out.
It's still safe for the mechanism itself.
Quick and dirty way to lube springs is to put all of them into a plastic bag, add few drops of lube, seal with air in it as if it were a ballon. Commence shaking the crap out of it. :P
The issue with disoldering a switch with a LED isn't exactly knowledge but if it's worth the work needed (and the connection points are at least 4 for each switch, because of the extra LED). I'm not even experienced, but even if I were, I find it not worth the trouble if it has to be done on one hundred keys.
If flooding with any method works I prefer it even if it's messy.
Can somebody show me, how to disassemble a switch on ErgoDox without desoldering (on Massdrop's acrylic plate).
What tool do you use to open "snaps" in the switch?
Can somebody show me, how to disassemble a switch on ErgoDox without desoldering (on Massdrop's acrylic plate).
What tool do you use to open "snaps" in the switch?
I'm not sure this is possible, unless the ergodox has the extra cutout for the switch to be opened. Most boards do not.
Hah I wish I ordered an extra plate to do that with. Smart!
I haven't found a more recent discussion on lubing stations other than the small lubing station IC thread, but I just wanted to share my makeshift one:Show Image(http://assets.christopherbuenaventura.com/img/keyboards/lubing-station-01.jpg)
For several months now, I've been using WFD's universal plate as a lube station. I used to have to fit in the switch bottoms on all the ends/throughout the whole plate for it to balance, as they'd stand on the pins. Then I'd have to lay it all on top of something (usually a thin piece of plastic) so the pins wouldn't scratch up my workspace.
Somehow it only hit me tonight that I could lay it atop a TKL top cover for better results. If you've already opened up a board for servicing, you could just use that. Or if you're like me, you could use the branded QFR top cover that you never knew what to do with (since I got unbranded one from CM's store several months ago).
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)
I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement. Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)
I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement. Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?
I've followed WFD's video and done that on both reds and blacks and had no issues. Like WFD, I also lube the stem with the same oil.
Lubing MX-White
Last night I tried a couple of different methods of lubing MX-White switches and had mixed results.
- Lubing the side rails killed the click.
- Lubing the actuator on the clicking element killed the click
- Lubing the post hole and stem reduced the click
Ultimately, I just don't think it's worth it. Either I don't have the patience, or the right mix and since MX-White have a softer click, I just didn't want to spend the time.
Anyone else have any success lubing MX-White switches?
Anyone else have any success lubing MX-White switches?
Don't they come pre-lubed to some degree from the factory?
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)
I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement. Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?
I've followed WFD's video and done that on both reds and blacks and had no issues. Like WFD, I also lube the stem with the same oil.
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)
I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement. Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?
I've followed WFD's video and done that on both reds and blacks and had no issues. Like WFD, I also lube the stem with the same oil.
Lubing MX-White
Last night I tried a couple of different methods of lubing MX-White switches and had mixed results.
- Lubing the side rails killed the click.
- Lubing the actuator on the clicking element killed the click
- Lubing the post hole and stem reduced the click
Ultimately, I just don't think it's worth it. Either I don't have the patience, or the right mix and since MX-White have a softer click, I just didn't want to spend the time.
Anyone else have any success lubing MX-White switches?
How many of you put some oil into this depression where the stem travels:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BggYuBU.jpg)
I saw on WFD's wonderful lubing video that it's good to put high viscosity oil in there (like Victorinox), but I'm wondering if this will slow down the stem movement. Or is that viscosity not enough for that effect vs. spring stiffness?
I am in the process of lubing, plate, and stickering on my cm qfr w/ ghetto greens but only have the kryptox 205 grease. I see the guide don't recommend it with clickys stems but wondering if anyone tried it. Planning to do it since i got it sitting at my desk. What other recommendation would you guys recommend for set up. Thanks.
I am in the process of lubing, plate, and stickering on my cm qfr w/ ghetto greens but only have the kryptox 205 grease. I see the guide don't recommend it with clickys stems but wondering if anyone tried it. Planning to do it since i got it sitting at my desk. What other recommendation would you guys recommend for set up. Thanks.
I've done it for keyboard science. DON'T DO IT. Why? From my experience, you'll lose all clicking and it'll just feel broken, and I only lubed the sides of the stems and not even the slide itself! The bad-feels you get is almost identical to when you get switches that won't click on a clicky keyboard (those that have felt this issue know the true heart ache). Once you've lubed them, you'll have to clean all the stems and replace the switch housing because you can't even clean those, which might even mean you might have to desolder all your switches out for new ones... I really do highly recommend you don't lube your clicky switch.
all the krytox greases have the same viscosity.
Can anyone comment on using sprays on plate mounted keyboards? I've had my MX Black Quickfire Rapid for something like a year and would prefer to get rid of that scratchy feeling. I guess I just press down the stem and spray. Is this method long-lasting/effective?
Thanks.
Another question: I want to lube the stabilizers at least. My brother seems to have some bike cleaning kit:
http://muc-off.com/en/stage-3-shine/22-wet-lube.html?category=bicycle
http://muc-off.com/en/stage-3-shine/21-dry-ptfe-chain-lube.html?category=bicycle
Do either of those seem OK to use? The wet lube at least says "no solvents". Sound OK?
There is a thread somewhere about this. I have done exactly this. I swapped sliders between white and blue stems. The click followed the slider, not the stem. I then cleaned the silicon grease out of the black slider (the white stem has a black slider and the blue/green stem has a white slider). This made them both clicky. Others have done this as well and at least one person felt that the white stem still sounded different even without the grease. I'm not sure, given the amount of variance between any two blue switches. However, it is possible that the slider is made out of different materials. I could find no dimensional difference between the two (Ripster claims that the white stem has longer rails on the slider...they don't).
There is a thread somewhere about this. I have done exactly this. I swapped sliders between white and blue stems. The click followed the slider, not the stem. I then cleaned the silicon grease out of the black slider (the white stem has a black slider and the blue/green stem has a white slider). This made them both clicky. Others have done this as well and at least one person felt that the white stem still sounded different even without the grease. I'm not sure, given the amount of variance between any two blue switches. However, it is possible that the slider is made out of different materials. I could find no dimensional difference between the two (Ripster claims that the white stem has longer rails on the slider...they don't).
There is a thread somewhere about this. I have done exactly this. I swapped sliders between white and blue stems. The click followed the slider, not the stem. I then cleaned the silicon grease out of the black slider (the white stem has a black slider and the blue/green stem has a white slider). This made them both clicky. Others have done this as well and at least one person felt that the white stem still sounded different even without the grease. I'm not sure, given the amount of variance between any two blue switches. However, it is possible that the slider is made out of different materials. I could find no dimensional difference between the two (Ripster claims that the white stem has longer rails on the slider...they don't).
So basically if I get MX Whites... I should be extremely careful with lubricating them, if doing any lubrication at all? I'd worry about changing the sound when adding different type of grease / oil (Krytox mixture).
So basically if I get MX Whites... I should be extremely careful with lubricating them, if doing any lubrication at all? I'd worry about changing the sound when adding different type of grease / oil (Krytox mixture).
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue? Does it look like it might be too much Superlube? It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to. Less sticky than Victorinox oil. You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.
Hoping I don't get flamed off the forums with this questions, but here goes...
I have some KryTox 104 Oil coming and I have a crap ton of SuperLube grease. I have heard that SuperLube will start to yellow over time, but does it actually change its properties when it yellows? Without opening my filco switches, I did a very thin layer of SuperLube on the sliders with a fine paint brush and it has made a world of difference. They still feel great even though I am sure it is more yellow then when I applied it.
Next, if I want a consistency between oil and grease, can I mix the KryTox and the SuperLube? Any issues with this?
Thx...
rule of thumb is not to mix dissimilar lubes. krytoxes can be mixed, silicone-based lubes can usually be mixed, mineral lubes can usually be mixed, but never cross base materials.
Hoping I don't get flamed off the forums with this questions, but here goes...
I have some KryTox 104 Oil coming and I have a crap ton of SuperLube grease. I have heard that SuperLube will start to yellow over time, but does it actually change its properties when it yellows? Without opening my filco switches, I did a very thin layer of SuperLube on the sliders with a fine paint brush and it has made a world of difference. They still feel great even though I am sure it is more yellow then when I applied it.
Next, if I want a consistency between oil and grease, can I mix the KryTox and the SuperLube? Any issues with this?
Thx...rule of thumb is not to mix dissimilar lubes. krytoxes can be mixed, silicone-based lubes can usually be mixed, mineral lubes can usually be mixed, but never cross base materials.
I wouldn't risk it, personally. Especially if it was going on those 300 switches you mentioned to me in a PM ;). At that volume, I think you should go the safe route with a Krytox mix. GPL 205 can be easily had on eBay and shipping to Canada ain't bad (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-GPL-205-Grease-oz-SCUBA-Oxygen-Nitrox-/270726776495?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0892c6af&_uhb=1).
Any of you guys tried the "Dirt & Dust Resistant Dry Lube PTFE Spray" by WD-40? I have tried this on my APC Clicker F-21 there doesn't seem to be any damages done to the keyboard. Specifically my board has membrane components and any excess lube needs to be wiped off or they will cause interference which little did I know I thought I killed my keyboard but she's working fine again.
Hi, welcome to geekhack!Any of you guys tried the "Dirt & Dust Resistant Dry Lube PTFE Spray" by WD-40? I have tried this on my APC Clicker F-21 there doesn't seem to be any damages done to the keyboard. Specifically my board has membrane components and any excess lube needs to be wiped off or they will cause interference which little did I know I thought I killed my keyboard but she's working fine again.
I just tried something similar, "WD-40 specialist water resistant silicone lubricant."Show Image(http://wd40specialist.com/images/water_resistant_spray.png)
I wanted to see what the effect would be on an easy task, the stems of my old HHKB Lite 2, before trying it in the Cherry MX switches in my ErgoDox. Result: massive fail, the keys are stickier than when they were dry and dirty. T_T
I bought it because the only local shop that the Internet said carried the DuPont Teflon Silicone Lubricant as mentioned on page one of this thread... didn't carry it. This seemed to be closest thing they had. That's what I get for being impatient and not just going home and ordering online.
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue? Does it look like it might be too much Superlube? It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to. Less sticky than Victorinox oil. You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.
(Attachment Link)
And this appetizing photograph is of MX Black stems soaking in detergent.
(Attachment Link)
I'm cleaning the switch tops, the stems, and the springs,but not sure what to do about the bottoms.<-- Looks like cotton swabs soaked in alcohol work well on the slider channels in the bottom housing!
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue? Does it look like it might be too much Superlube? It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to. Less sticky than Victorinox oil. You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.
(Attachment Link)
And this appetizing photograph is of MX Black stems soaking in detergent.
(Attachment Link)
I'm cleaning the switch tops, the stems, and the springs,but not sure what to do about the bottoms.<-- Looks like cotton swabs soaked in alcohol work well on the slider channels in the bottom housing!
Is LZ soaking these switches in detergent?
http://lzlife.tistory.com/category/LZ%20Histroy
If so, what kind do you clean your switches with?
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue? Does it look like it might be too much Superlube? It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to. Less sticky than Victorinox oil. You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.
(Attachment Link)
And this appetizing photograph is of MX Black stems soaking in detergent.
(Attachment Link)
I'm cleaning the switch tops, the stems, and the springs,but not sure what to do about the bottoms.<-- Looks like cotton swabs soaked in alcohol work well on the slider channels in the bottom housing!
Is LZ soaking these switches in detergent?
http://lzlife.tistory.com/category/LZ%20Histroy
If so, what kind do you clean your switches with?
I think LZ was likely using IPA in order to remove any factory applied grease/possibly dirt.
I think LZ was likely using IPA in order to remove any factory applied grease/possibly dirt.
I'm ignorant - what's IPA?
I think LZ was likely using IPA in order to remove any factory applied grease/possibly dirt.
I'm ignorant - what's IPA?
I think LZ was likely using IPA in order to remove any factory applied grease/possibly dirt.
I'm ignorant - what's IPA?
India Pale Ale.
[2/2/2014 10:10:12 PM] ming: i think it really depends on what kind of feel you want out of the switch
[2/2/2014 10:10:56 PM] ming: use a tiny bit of the right consistency of lube in the right place and you can almost any feel out of any switch
[2/2/2014 10:10:59 PM] ming: well
[2/2/2014 10:11:11 PM] ming: as long as that feel involves less friction somewhere
[2/2/2014 10:11:14 PM] ming: or more stiction
[2/2/2014 10:12:07 PM] ming: but any lubricant not on surfaces with dynamic friction is wasted lube that's going to get all over the place the second you start using the switches
[2/2/2014 10:12:22 PM] ming: if you look at a cherry switch
[2/2/2014 10:12:31 PM] ming: there's the slider, the bottom housing, top housing right
[2/2/2014 10:12:43 PM] ming: slider has back, front and sides
[2/2/2014 10:12:58 PM] ming: sides slide into two gussets in the bottom housing
[2/2/2014 10:13:12 PM] ming: top housing has very little contact with slide, pretty much irrelevant
[2/2/2014 10:13:16 PM] ming: so you have slider and bottom housing
[2/2/2014 10:13:41 PM] ming: there are two points that are lubricated from the factory on any cherry switch. the furthest two points on the gold crosspoint contact
[2/2/2014 10:14:20 PM] ming: if you want a smoother less tactile switch, put a thin lube there
[2/2/2014 10:14:47 PM] ming: if that's not smooth enough for you, also lube the two gussets
[2/2/2014 10:16:14 PM] ming: all the stems have two little arms
[2/2/2014 10:16:17 PM] ming: that connect to those
[2/2/2014 10:16:21 PM] ming: those are the factory lube points
[2/2/2014 10:16:36 PM] ming: they use a silicone based lube
[2/2/2014 10:16:41 PM] ming: fairly viscous
[2/2/2014 10:17:16 PM] ming: if you want a more tactile switch, put thick stuff on the gussets
[2/2/2014 10:17:29 PM] ming: but you have to be careful about the slider face with tactile switches
[2/2/2014 10:17:41 PM] ming: hence the formulation of VERY THICK
[2/2/2014 10:17:53 PM] ming: thick is not thick enough for more tactility on slider face
[2/2/2014 10:18:20 PM] ming: same problem as topre sliders
Does anyone have mixed the gpl-205 grease with victorinox multi-tool oil to use it on the stems sliders?
Is it possible "lube" the switch without taking the housing off?
Is it possible "lube" the switch without taking the housing off?
Is lubing really worth it? I've read quite a few people saying the difference is really small or not even noticeable. Seems like a lot of work, especially having to desolder every switchIt depends. Lubing brand new Cherry MX Linear or Tactile switches is worth every bit. Lubing Vintage Cherry MX Black will have small benefit. However, it is not recommended to lube Clicky switches like Cherry MX Blue or Green because if we apply lubricant with high viscosity, it may lose the clicky.
Can anyone describe the feeling before and after lubing browns? Does it make them feel lighter? I notice at times some of my keys feels a bit scratchy depending on the temperature and humidity. Does that stuff effect the feel or the switch, or am I crazy?
However, it is not recommended to lube Clicky switches like Cherry MX Blue or Green because if we apply lubricant with high viscosity, it may lose the clicky.What about a low viscosity lube? Should clicky switches not be lubed at all?
How long does the lube last before it starts to go back go normal so to speak?
Sorry to post in a dying thread, but I'm getting ready to do my first lubing run soon, and wondering If I should go ahead and pick up some Victorinox for my springs/bottoms of stems? I had planned to use that very runny "Dupont Teflon Silicone Lubricant" stuff -- according to the labeling it seems to be safe for everything and from the consistency it seems like it would get the same effect. Since the lubing the springs isn't exactly a vital part (so it seems), I think I'd probably be okay for that, or does the Victorinox make that much of a difference? I've got some GPL 104 and 205 on the way for my stems. I probably would have grabbed 103 if I could have found it... but yeah, opinions on the spring lube?
Hey guys! Can I use the Permatex Dielectric Grease for lubing the switches?
Saw this comment on reddit from elitekeyboard:
"Pricey Krytox GPL20x lubes are a bad match for keyswitches (don't tell the guys at geekhack!). These lubes are intended for closed systems or for applications where oil is periodically reapplied to the initially applied lubricant, because the Krytox oil in the lubricant separates from the PTFE solids if the system isn't sealed or doesn't constantly mix the lubricant (which reflows the solids). Sure, it's great lube for high speed bearings and extreme temperature environments, but keyswitches are open systems at room temperature and the oil will soon separate and pool or drip out the bottom of the switch leaving you with gummier solids that no longer flow and just attract dust. We did tests a couple years ago with Krytox out of curiosity, and after the oil separates off a few days or a week later, the difference from an un-lubed switch is mostly negligible."
LOL :D
Anyway I'm going to be lubing 55g gold spring ergo-clears. Is there much difference between the GPL 206/1506 geekhack kit and the gpl 203/103 so many on this thread talk about? It's said that thick lube is best for tactile switches, so it'd be best if I used thick gh lube on all places, and this https://ctrlalt.io/store/items/geekhackers-lube-kits spring lube on spring? Is difference between thick and thin lube a different mix of the 206/1506? What's used for the spring lube on ctrlalt, some kind of victorinox? Is http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,misc&pid=mechlube or gh thick lube better for stabilizers ?(cherry)
IIRC that was Brian @ ek dissing the krytox probably so he can sell more mech lube
So I spent some time lubricating some of the vintage black key switches in the new keyboard I got (based around faceu replica) and I used two different types of krytox to try them out. I did a row of keys with 103 and a row with 107 using this guide.
I feel like the 107 gives the keys a gummy feeling, and this doesn't surprise me that much as it is very viscous, but I also get a similar feeling using the 103, which is a much lighter lubricant (maybe less gummyness on bottoming out).
TBH I am not sure if I would take the time to do it again! If I am opening up the switches to put in new springs I might put a dab on the sliders, but the whole rigmarole of dipping the spring is a bit lost on me.
Now; how do I remove lubricant from switches? Use some isopropyl alcohol?
http://i.imgur.com/jVlMFd8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/F268jBV.jpg
Isn't this wayyy too much lubing?
https://imgur.com/a/qPNAw#bEHlfJ2 taken from this guide.
There's a reason why many people choose to blend krytox grease & oil together. I also would not recommend dipping a whole spring into oil.
Ming's Unofficial Guide to Lubing.
Preface: There are only two parts on a MX switch worth lubing, the gold crosspoint contact with the slider, and the channels in the bottom switch housing.
What do you want out of lubing?
What kind of feel do you want out of switches?
Lubing can either decrease or increase friction inside the switch.
To decrease friction for a smoother switch, use a thin lube on the slider arms and in the channels.
To increase friction, and enhance tactility, use a thick lube in the channels, and a very thick lube on the slider arms.
Some Notes: Be careful with the slider arms on a tactile switch, too much lube can kill the click, and the thick formulation is not thick enough to actually increase tactility.
OG ChatlogMoreQuote[2/2/2014 10:10:12 PM] ming: i think it really depends on what kind of feel you want out of the switch
[2/2/2014 10:10:56 PM] ming: use a tiny bit of the right consistency of lube in the right place and you can almost any feel out of any switch
[2/2/2014 10:10:59 PM] ming: well
[2/2/2014 10:11:11 PM] ming: as long as that feel involves less friction somewhere
[2/2/2014 10:11:14 PM] ming: or more stiction
[2/2/2014 10:12:07 PM] ming: but any lubricant not on surfaces with dynamic friction is wasted lube that's going to get all over the place the second you start using the switches
[2/2/2014 10:12:22 PM] ming: if you look at a cherry switch
[2/2/2014 10:12:31 PM] ming: there's the slider, the bottom housing, top housing right
[2/2/2014 10:12:43 PM] ming: slider has back, front and sides
[2/2/2014 10:12:58 PM] ming: sides slide into two gussets in the bottom housing
[2/2/2014 10:13:12 PM] ming: top housing has very little contact with slide, pretty much irrelevant
[2/2/2014 10:13:16 PM] ming: so you have slider and bottom housing
[2/2/2014 10:13:41 PM] ming: there are two points that are lubricated from the factory on any cherry switch. the furthest two points on the gold crosspoint contact
[2/2/2014 10:14:20 PM] ming: if you want a smoother less tactile switch, put a thin lube there
[2/2/2014 10:14:47 PM] ming: if that's not smooth enough for you, also lube the two gussets
[2/2/2014 10:16:14 PM] ming: all the stems have two little arms
[2/2/2014 10:16:17 PM] ming: that connect to those
[2/2/2014 10:16:21 PM] ming: those are the factory lube points
[2/2/2014 10:16:36 PM] ming: they use a silicone based lube
[2/2/2014 10:16:41 PM] ming: fairly viscous
[2/2/2014 10:17:16 PM] ming: if you want a more tactile switch, put thick stuff on the gussets
[2/2/2014 10:17:29 PM] ming: but you have to be careful about the slider face with tactile switches
[2/2/2014 10:17:41 PM] ming: hence the formulation of VERY THICK
[2/2/2014 10:17:53 PM] ming: thick is not thick enough for more tactility on slider face
[2/2/2014 10:18:20 PM] ming: same problem as topre sliders
I will be updating this with more info as I bug ming.
what's the difference between GPL205 and GPL206? and why do i never see 200-204 or 207 recommended?
and how much oz would be good for a keyboard? because i want to make sure i get enough for at least 3 boards :)
Btw. Why do all buy Krytox GPL? See that on krytox homepage that the GPL 104 is a compressor oil. And you can get other compressor oil with the same viscosity @1l for about 6€? And 10g of Krytox costs 10$?does anybody have an answer to this question?
Btw. Why do all buy Krytox GPL? See that on krytox homepage that the GPL 104 is a compressor oil. And you can get other compressor oil with the same viscosity @1l for about 6€? And 10g of Krytox costs 10$?does anybody have an answer to this question?
thanks. do you think it's worth paying premium for this? seeing as many of the factors you listed aren't applicable for the usage of lubing stabsCorrectly! Krytox 104 is good for the switch but it is not so good for the stabilizers.
I think the folks over at Dupont would have a nice laugh if they knew we were using their industrial grade lubricants for our keyboards. :)) :))
Can I use lithium grease for the silder? I have some lying around and I would like to use what I have already.
In the name of science then...Can I use lithium grease for the silder? I have some lying around and I would like to use what I have already.
Personally, I would stick to the tried and true Krytox blends. If you have a switch or two lying around it's worth testing but I would be surprised if the results, both long term and short, are any better than unlubed.
Before I read the entire thread, I was going to use high viscosity RC silicon lube with some mixed in silicone grease on my springs and some low viscosity RC silicon lube on the stem, sliders and the switch top
After reading the entire thread, I'm still going to do the same, but it was still a good read, it's interesting how lubes from different interests/hobbies apply to switches
I'm currently using a keyboard with only-spring lubed switches, I'm pretty satisfied, it completely eliminated the pings that I complained about for a long while
I think the stem/slider lubing is far more risky, especially in the long run, as lube+dirt=gunk that will slow down the stem, however, I'm intending to apply the low viscosity lube from a rubbed brush that has no lube left, the silicone is pretty sticky, so even if the brush is rubbed after being dipped, the remaining lube on the brush should be enough and adequate for the job
I'm a bit disappointed that no one mentioned switch top lubing to improve/dampen the bottom up sounds (at least I missed it) - in any case, I will share my experience when I finalise my first build (first completely custom build that is)
Would it matter if I used thick krytox lube from TechKeys on linear Gateron blacks? I know that thin lube is recommended for linears but I don't want to order some from overseas since I still have lots of tick lube left.I'm guessing, if you apply too much, it could cause a bit of a popping sound
So would it make much of a difference?
So is the OP still what people should be doing? Or is it outdated?
How long does the lube last before it starts to go back go normal so to speak?if you use krytox? it will continue being slippery until after your great great great grandchildren pass the keyboard down to their progeny.
I think the folks over at Dupont would have a nice laugh if they knew we were using their industrial grade lubricants for our keyboards. :)) :))they did. the first time we talked, my rep literally spent 5 minutes uncontrollably laughing his butt off. at one point he had to mute his mic.
The gpl 20x series are greases with the same consistency (peanut butter). The oil can separate in shipment, but it's just physical settling and only happens in bulk material. If you are only getting oil from your 200 series you need to remix the grease.
I have to say I like silicone lube a bit more, it's smoother, it's silent compared to krytoxPopping sound typically means you used too much lube and its creating air bubbles when the plunger goes into the lower housing. :[ It does not go away with time.
There is this little "bubbling" sound with Krytox that doesn't seem to go away, it was more like a "pop" with silicone and it went away with just a little bit of typing
I don't know what the long run results will be, but for a first impression silicone lube wins, imo
I would still use Krytox again for a future build, however If I knew the sound will likely be permanent, I would segment my tactile switches too, to put the bubbly switches into alphas/num-row or something, I have one in my spacebar right now, it's very slightly annoying, since I'm paying attention to it at this stage, but for regular usage, it's ignorable, and I'm hoping with some breaking in it will go away
I also lube the switch top part where the stem touches the switch top, the sound might be stem hitting that lube at each bottom-up, or it might be the lubed stem arms that cause a bubbling sound as the stem rubs the metal leaf
TL;DR: If you have silicone lube, and if you're wondering whether you really need Krytox, you probably don't
The lube is white, when used sparingly it becomes transparent, I lay a thin layer, however I make sure the color is slightly more than transparent at placesWith that much lube you might be taking the cherry switch outside of its design intentions. Lubrication is lubrication - assisting and preserving the components being used. Chasing pneumatic (or rather in this case hydraulic) experiments will always result in inconsistencies because the housing is not designed for that much liquid.
The reason for this is the pneumatic keypress experience that I'm after, the lube isn't too extreme, but it's enough to create just a little bit of friction to enhance the keypress experience
I'm using 62g activation springs from MK, I tested some switches with coins, they are closer to 100g on bottom downs :)"62g" typically refers to the approximate weight needed for the stem to reach actuation point in a switch - not full bottom down. If you want to take a look at bare spring forces (not including friction from leaf) see this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449.0
Lubing methods have many varieties and controversies, but if anything defines a "successful" lube job, it is consistency across the board. The tactility bump or smoothness should not vary across individual switches. This is another symptom of over-lubing, but can also be a symptom of a bent contact leaf.
The sound is more of an issue during testing, when you pay attention to it, however during regular typing it blends in, I'm hoping the switches would break in just a little bit
Some switches also turned out to be smoother than others, I didn't segment them too well and ended up with a slightly stiff command switch that I press with my thumb, so If anyone is going to attempt something similar, I think it's a good idea to put the lighter switches to the keys that are pressed with the thumb
I think the sound is a bit related to this, it might be coming from the stem, it's also probably from switches that have a randomly strong tactile bump, as the mellow bumped ones seem more silent
Except for the command switch, I have no regrets, but I just don't want to remove the keycaps, open the case, re-solder the keyboard, just to mellow-down a switch by 10-15g
I see. I don't think I've ever encountered noise that happens only at fast key presses, so it could be another problem entirely.
If it makes you feel any better the first board I lubed had popping sounds and I used it for about a year before finally doing a proper rebuild lol. And yes, it is still way better than a stock board!
Well I wish you luck with your next build. I'm sorry I couldn't help much.
1) You don't, or do you?
I have the stem pole lubed just slightly, I would say that it makes the bottom-down sound more homogenous, but I didn't prove it by comparing it to a non-lubed one, don't lube the pole/hole much, otherwise you will create yourself a sticky switch, which will cause sticking sounds
2) You are confused regarding how things get together, the spring goes around the hole/pole, it isn't connected to them, it just wraps around them, so go ahead and lube the spring with ease of mind, don't lube the top part of the spring too much
3) If you like the tactility as it is, don't lube the legs, they are already pre-lubed with silicone lube, just leave that lube as it is
If you have to be extremely safe, just lube the bottom of the spring and the sliders of the stem, it sounds like that's what you want
Also why bring Victorinox to the mix?
Hey guys, what should I use for the stem hole and the stem? Thinking of using high viscosity oil but i'm not certain if oils are for stems/stem holes. I'm still in the planning phase of my build and so far I have the following for lubing my clears:
Victorinox high viscosity oil on the spring's top and bottom and the stem and stem hole.
Geekhackers V2 from ZealPC on the stem slider, slider rails, leaves and stem front (the part that goes in contact with the leaves).
I already have the lubricants on their way - I just want to confirm I'm using a suitable product (not the product quality but rather the type...oil/grease etc.) for all the different areas. Wouldn't want to use something incompatible and completely ruin my switches :(
Also is it okay to use Geekhackers V2 on the stabilisers as well or is it not recommend to use a blend for the stabilizers?
Thanks in advance! ^_^
Thanks for your input! Geekhackers v2 is a mixture of Krytox 1506 and 206. I would have used the DuPont silicone teflon everybody uses instead of Victorinox but that stuff isn't available here or not the DuPont brand anyways.Hey guys, what should I use for the stem hole and the stem? Thinking of using high viscosity oil but i'm not certain if oils are for stems/stem holes. I'm still in the planning phase of my build and so far I have the following for lubing my clears:
Victorinox high viscosity oil on the spring's top and bottom and the stem and stem hole.
Geekhackers V2 from ZealPC on the stem slider, slider rails, leaves and stem front (the part that goes in contact with the leaves).
I already have the lubricants on their way - I just want to confirm I'm using a suitable product (not the product quality but rather the type...oil/grease etc.) for all the different areas. Wouldn't want to use something incompatible and completely ruin my switches :(
Also is it okay to use Geekhackers V2 on the stabilisers as well or is it not recommend to use a blend for the stabilizers?
Thanks in advance! ^_^
Can't comment on your general lube choices, they don't sound good, I would just stick to pure Krytox's and mix them myself
Other than this, don't lube the stem/hole too much, I just lube the stem pole with a dry brush, the same brush I use for all around lubing, and make sure the bottom of the stem's pole has some lube too, with hopes that it dampens the sound just a little bit
However, if you apply too much, you will make things 10 times worse as the stem pole will always produce weird sticking sounds
Honestly, I can't even detect whether my stem pole/hole lubing makes any change, so you might skip it too, spring + stem makes the most change
this guy probably uses a little bit too much, I'd maybe put 1/2 of that or 2/3, so a middle ground between wfd and those pics.
this guy probably uses a little bit too much, I'd maybe put 1/2 of that or 2/3, so a middle ground between wfd and those pics.
It's personal preference perhaps.
IMO, putting too much lube may have negative effect, so in my case, I only put a thin layer (formula: krytox 204 + 103, 50:50).Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oC7kLKF.jpg)
That is a roach clip. Blunts just need fingers
I can finally join the club.
KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.
My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.
As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.
I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.
I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.
Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.
I can finally join the club.
KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.
My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.
As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.
I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.
I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.
Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.
Indeed the spring determines most of the response
The 78g sprit spring should be lighter than stock clear springs, I personally hate light springs, they don't feel good to me, they are also risky lube-wise
Try these springs, they are by far the best springs I've tested and I've tested 10's: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1184
Don't let the 62g rating fool you, it's an activation rating, in reality they are 100+ when lubed - the same mix you used should produce a better result with these springs, but don't take my word for it, definitely try and find your optimal spring
I'm currently using the 80g of MK springs, same spring dynamic, it's a high coiled and long spring, much longer than MX springs, feels better to me (both 60g, 62g, and 80g, whereas their 67g were similar to stock clear springs in terms of behaviour)
I can finally join the club.
KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.
My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.
As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.
I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.
I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.
Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.
Indeed the spring determines most of the response
The 78g sprit spring should be lighter than stock clear springs, I personally hate light springs, they don't feel good to me, they are also risky lube-wise
Try these springs, they are by far the best springs I've tested and I've tested 10's: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1184
Don't let the 62g rating fool you, it's an activation rating, in reality they are 100+ when lubed - the same mix you used should produce a better result with these springs, but don't take my word for it, definitely try and find your optimal spring
I'm currently using the 80g of MK springs, same spring dynamic, it's a high coiled and long spring, much longer than MX springs, feels better to me (both 60g, 62g, and 80g, whereas their 67g were similar to stock clear springs in terms of behaviour)
I can finally join the club.
KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.
My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.
As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.
I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.
I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.
Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.
Indeed the spring determines most of the response
The 78g sprit spring should be lighter than stock clear springs, I personally hate light springs, they don't feel good to me, they are also risky lube-wise
Try these springs, they are by far the best springs I've tested and I've tested 10's: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1184
Don't let the 62g rating fool you, it's an activation rating, in reality they are 100+ when lubed - the same mix you used should produce a better result with these springs, but don't take my word for it, definitely try and find your optimal spring
I'm currently using the 80g of MK springs, same spring dynamic, it's a high coiled and long spring, much longer than MX springs, feels better to me (both 60g, 62g, and 80g, whereas their 67g were similar to stock clear springs in terms of behaviour)
KHANN, I'd love to see a pictorial where you point to where you're referencing. The Switch top's front bottom? I don't know what this is. Also, you lube the slider's 4 sides? This makes sense.
ripster was the self-proclaimed #1 Keyboard Expert on the Planet. He had written or contributed to most of the articles in the previous wiki. He had a couple of epic feuds with keyboardlover and harrison. Just before he got himself permabanned, he became the resident epic troll for a short time. He now hangs out at reddit and complains about Geekhack.
The loss of that wiki (due to the R00TW0RM attack), was probably the biggest loss this forum has ever suffered.
I used the dielectric grease since I did see it referenced once. The Traxxas grease did not list the ingredients, so I decided not to use it (it was ordered accidentally anyway).
I'm curious about which stabilizers people lubricate. I put a dab on the space bar with a sharpened piece of pegwood and it certainly made a difference. I also tried the Enter key and I have to say that I do not see a difference with or without the lube. This may be why the manufacturer does not lube it anyway.
Any thoughts?
I have also noticed that with the keycap removed, you can take any stabilizer (cherry) and slide it up, down, left, or right across the surface of the backplate. I wonder if there would be any advantage so securing the stab. to the plate. It's only held in place by the little tab which you press in. This may also be a source of wobble and movement. You could use rubber cement or some other adhesive which will break down with a solvent in case you ever have to open it up for some reason.
Would this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Finish-Line-Mountain-Chain-120ml/dp/B00365YSTK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1466377749&sr=8-2&keywords=DuPont+Lubricant be a suitable alternative to the Teflon Silicone lubricant? It seems to be the same product just re-branded. Planning on using it on Gateron blues.
Can I just lube the housing,stem,spring sliding points with only "Krytox 100 thin-oil" and stabilisers with a thicker grease like "Krytox 205" ?1) Yes, it is just great, krytox 100 is very good for "housing,stem,spring sliding points"
I also see people mix their lubrication what's the benefit of mixing lubes ?
1) Yes, it is just great, krytox 100 is very good for "housing,stem,spring sliding points"
2) Mixing lubes to create a different viscosity point => different feeling
1) Yes, it is just great, krytox 100 is very good for "housing,stem,spring sliding points"
2) Mixing lubes to create a different viscosity point => different feeling
Does mixing different types of lubricants dampen sound more than just a single lube type? Different feel = dampens differently ?
Also, if i was to eliminate pinging and some of the bottoming-out or upstroke while compromising the feel (maybe heavier?) do I need to mix lubes ? Or does the GPL100 do that just fine?
EliteKeyboards MechLube 2 works really great and stays where it is supposed to be (just don't use too much). Generally I'd rather use a thick mixture for all switches then a thin one because they are more stable and don't tend to end up in the lower half like the oils do. I used a few different lube variants (Krytox 105, Geekhackers V3 thin and thick, Mechlube 2) on linear switches and both Geekhackers Thin and Krytox 105 do not stay on the slider at all, if i pop open the switch on those the slider always comes out dry. The Geekhackers thick lube and MechLube 2 are both said to be best for tactile switches since they are thicker lubes, but as long as you don't drown the switch in it they also work great for linears (even with 55g springs).
I kind of feel like even silicone RC lubes would stay around longer
I heard he quit
Keepo
I heard his ego is shoved far up his ass.
anyone an idea what one would buy in europe? krytox seems extremely expensive here, if you can find it.
Try Pexon PCs; they're UK based and recently stocked some thin and thick mixes: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84724.0
Try Pexon PCs; they're UK based and recently stocked some thin and thick mixes: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84724.0
you can buy 20ml of krytox 105/205 for ~25 euro... he's selling 2ml for 11.65 euro.
Not going to lie, I took a leap of faith and tried out this lube I have from my fpv quadcopters.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Lubed up a few Zealios on the two opposite sides where the stem slides against the housing .. They feel heavier, smoother, and more fluid. Completely got rid of the pinging and scratchiness. Quieter too.
Will update at a later time. No idea how it will fare in the long run.
Not going to lie, I took a leap of faith and tried out this lube I have from my fpv quadcopters.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Lubed up a few Zealios on the two opposite sides where the stem slides against the housing .. They feel heavier, smoother, and more fluid. Completely got rid of the pinging and scratchiness. Quieter too.
Will update at a later time. No idea how it will fare in the long run.
Won't this end up pooling in the bottom of the switch? It doesn't look like something thick enough. I may be wrong, but how viscous is the oil?
Not going to lie, I took a leap of faith and tried out this lube I have from my fpv quadcopters.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Lubed up a few Zealios on the two opposite sides where the stem slides against the housing .. They feel heavier, smoother, and more fluid. Completely got rid of the pinging and scratchiness. Quieter too.
Will update at a later time. No idea how it will fare in the long run.
I swapped a Cherry MX Clear onto a Red switch to get the springy-ness of the red with the tactility of the clear (stock clear/green/black are too heavy for me). There is no sticking despite the wimpier spring from the red. Should I still lube the switch? I think they call this ergo clear switches? I keep reading that you may need to lube the spring, but I am afraid of chattering which was an issue with my brand new Matias Clicky V80 TKL from KBP.
I really like the tactile feel and springy-ness of Cherry MX Blues, but my wife hates the noise. So I'm looking into Ergo Clears or lightweight Zealios.
I swapped a Cherry MX Clear onto a Red switch to get the springy-ness of the red with the tactility of the clear (stock clear/green/black are too heavy for me). There is no sticking despite the wimpier spring from the red. Should I still lube the switch? I think they call this ergo clear switches? I keep reading that you may need to lube the spring, but I am afraid of chattering which was an issue with my brand new Matias Clicky V80 TKL from KBP.
I really like the tactile feel and springy-ness of Cherry MX Blues, but my wife hates the noise. So I'm looking into Ergo Clears or lightweight Zealios.
If you like it, just use it, lube might make the switch stick, depending on the lube
Generally, if something works, it's better to leave it as it is, unless you have issues with it
I swapped a Cherry MX Clear onto a Red switch to get the springy-ness of the red with the tactility of the clear (stock clear/green/black are too heavy for me). There is no sticking despite the wimpier spring from the red. Should I still lube the switch? I think they call this ergo clear switches? I keep reading that you may need to lube the spring, but I am afraid of chattering which was an issue with my brand new Matias Clicky V80 TKL from KBP.
I really like the tactile feel and springy-ness of Cherry MX Blues, but my wife hates the noise. So I'm looking into Ergo Clears or lightweight Zealios.
If you like it, just use it, lube might make the switch stick, depending on the lube
Generally, if something works, it's better to leave it as it is, unless you have issues with it
I want to hear your oppinion about this stuff
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Weldtite-TF2-Teflon-Lubricant-Cycle-Bike-Grease-125ml-Headsets-Cranks-BBs-/271574661077?hash=item3f3b1c77d5:g:QlQAAOSweW5U6aLi
Yeah, it's inprovisation, but I don't have dollaz for krytox.
Or ultimatively should I try what Jeasse36something said he gave a shot:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I wanna lube vintage blacks, but wanting alone is not enough :D
I swapped a Cherry MX Clear onto a Red switch to get the springy-ness of the red with the tactility of the clear (stock clear/green/black are too heavy for me). There is no sticking despite the wimpier spring from the red. Should I still lube the switch? I think they call this ergo clear switches? I keep reading that you may need to lube the spring, but I am afraid of chattering which was an issue with my brand new Matias Clicky V80 TKL from KBP.
I really like the tactile feel and springy-ness of Cherry MX Blues, but my wife hates the noise. So I'm looking into Ergo Clears or lightweight Zealios.
If you like it, just use it, lube might make the switch stick, depending on the lube
Generally, if something works, it's better to leave it as it is, unless you have issues with it
I want to hear your oppinion about this stuff
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Weldtite-TF2-Teflon-Lubricant-Cycle-Bike-Grease-125ml-Headsets-Cranks-BBs-/271574661077?hash=item3f3b1c77d5:g:QlQAAOSweW5U6aLi
Yeah, it's inprovisation, but I don't have dollaz for krytox.
Or ultimatively should I try what Jeasse36something said he gave a shot:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HT4DLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I wanna lube vintage blacks, but wanting alone is not enough :D
I would personally not do it, you never know whether it's going to gather gunk and halt an already weak switch
Up to you tho, everyone gathers their own experience with trials and errors
You guys don't quite make sense.
I've read almost entire tread and oh boy, I don't know where my head is.
I just wanted to lube some vintage blacks and I tought it should be simple and not too expensive, I even prepared 20e.
But now all these unicorn expensive krytox mixtures start popping up. I cant even pay international shipping for them.
1.Can I use bicycle lube?
2.Where can I buy DuPont teflon silicone lubricant in europe?
3.Can I escape krytox and enjoy my (non-krytox) lubed vintage mx blacks, or do I absolutely NEED to buy it for PROPPER results and live in cave for the rest of my life?
And one more thing, I have noticed how no one here actually points out if the struggle and price was worth it...
Anyone here use the syringe that comes from TechKeys?I've used it for topre switches which are far less tedious to lube than MX switches.
And one more thing, I have noticed how no one here actually points out if the struggle and price was worth it...
And one more thing, I have noticed how no one here actually points out if the struggle and price was worth it...
The ping reduction is probably the only objective benefit, I've been using my Krytox lubed keyboard for 1+ years, keypress-wise, It feels normal now, rather than "incredible" - however, the springs are still silent, I suspect they will be ping-free for years to come
I don't think the price is high, but, since the struggle is ~1 full day, or maybe 2 days, and the enjoyment is 100's of days, definitely worth it
New here but have noticed since i bought a shine 5 mx blue that i really don't care for how clacky and sometimes difficult it is to type on. Would this method of lubing work for this board?
New here but have noticed since i bought a shine 5 mx blue that i really don't care for how clacky and sometimes difficult it is to type on. Would this method of lubing work for this board?
It will work but there is a chance that the click will be removed altogether if done incorrectly. Unless that's what you are going for.
New here but have noticed since i bought a shine 5 mx blue that i really don't care for how clacky and sometimes difficult it is to type on. Would this method of lubing work for this board?
It will work but there is a chance that the click will be removed altogether if done incorrectly. Unless that's what you are going for.
i don't suppose it would make it more of a brown feel, would it?
Definitely test it on a loose switch before applying
It's basically very annoying, I wouldn't say brown-like, more like brown+mush
2) I tried rinsing the affected parts
What exactly did you rinse? There is probably still lube on the contact leaf and in the side rails of the bottom housing.
What exactly did you rinse? There is probably still lube on the contact leaf and in the side rails of the bottom housing.
basically everything. the entire housing, spring and stem. i even dabbed it with this. (https://www.cleanandclear.com/blotting-papers/clean-clear-oil-absorbing-sheets)
pretty sure all the lube's been removed, but the rinsing process seems to have somehow ruined the switches. it's making me think that clicky switches + any sort of liquid = a big no no
As you're just trying to perform some experiments now instead of having a guaranteed way to save the switches. I would suggest trying to soak and rinse them in turpentine - it's how I clean my bicycle gears.
it's making me think that clicky switches + any sort of liquid = a big no no
it's making me think that clicky switches + any sort of liquid = a big no no
That cannot be the case. I used dish cleaner (the powder stuff, not the liquid) with Cherry Blue stems once and they still clicked afterwards.
it's making me think that clicky switches + any sort of liquid = a big no no
That cannot be the case. I used dish cleaner (the powder stuff, not the liquid) with Cherry Blue stems once and they still clicked afterwards.
Just the stems, or did you do the bottom housings as well?
As you're just trying to perform some experiments now instead of having a guaranteed way to save the switches. I would suggest trying to soak and rinse them in turpentine - it's how I clean my bicycle gears.
um doesn't turpentine eat through plastic?
Shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't overdo the lubing, and even then the overdone lubing is is the problem and not the fact that you stored them differently.
Also, I'd highly suggest lubing the springs, there is nothing worse than pinging switches and lubing the springs does help with that a lot.
Also, I'd highly suggest lubing the springs, there is nothing worse than pinging switches and lubing the springs does help with that a lot.
I'm kind of waffling on this. I've read that lubing the springs makes little to no difference, and then I've read the exact opposite. The lube I have is the "thin" Krytox solution from TechKeys. They also offer a "spring" solution. Do you think I could get away with using the same "thin" TechKeys lube on both the stems/housings and the springs?
Re-reading the description on their site, it sounds like the "spring" lube is just a smaller amount of lube (0.5mL vs 2mL in the "thin" lube kit). Says it's a Krytox GPL 206/1506 mix. So I'd imagine I can use the "thin" stuff I bought on all friction points.
It does not make a lot of difference if you don't have an issue with pinging to begin with. But lubing springs doesn't really take much time to begin with and, if you open the switches anyways, it is definitely worth it, mainly because you don't have to open them again in case you end up with pinging.
Does anyone have the original pics associated with this guide or can make new ones?
Which krytox best for stabs guy?
FWIW I used Super Lube recently to great success, super cheapYeah! Just bought a quart of Super Lube's utralight (slightly lighter than Krytox 103) to try on some switches.
Dow Molykote 44m
https://www.amazon.com/Dow-Corning-Molykote-Medium-Lubricant/dp/B001VY1EL8
Would this work well, its pretty thick I have a bit that I used on arcade cabinet joysticks.
Any recommendations to lube 100 switches without taking 4 hours??
Is mixing krytox 103 and 205 in equal parts still considered the best option for switches and springs?
Took apart some Pandas to put Mod-M switches in their housings since people said it magnified the tactility.IME the heavier the spring the more drawn out & less apparent the tactile bump will become, pretty much the opposite of what you want. I would think a lighter spring would bring the tactility out more, but I have never tried that personally as I prefer heavier switches.
It did, but it also magnified the rattling and scratchy(?) feeling so I put a barely visible amount of lube on the stem sliders and an afterthought on the slider housing.
It's incredibly smooth and quiet now but the bump feels quieter or hidden somehow... can still feel it when I press slowly. It's not what I expected but I guess I didn't know what I expected.
It still feels pretty nice actually, but would swapping in heavier springs bring the bump out more by drawing out the keypress?
Is mixing krytox 103 and 205 in equal parts still considered the best option for switches and springs?
103/107 mix for stems.
107 alone for springs.
204 for stabs.
that's the best..
What percentage/ratios does everyone recommend of VPF 1514 and GPL 204 for linear switches (and/or tactile switches)?
this is what Zeal told me to do:
lube bottom rails left and right
also touch a bit on the border rails
then lube the spring inside n out
drop it in
lube everywhere on stem. literally every surface
swirl around the pole
drop it in
don't add lube to legs on tactile zealios
add extra on linears
this is what Zeal told me to do:
lube bottom rails left and right
also touch a bit on the border rails
then lube the spring inside n out
drop it in
lube everywhere on stem. literally every surface
swirl around the pole
drop it in
don't add lube to legs on tactile zealios
add extra on linears
Those instructions sound like some kids play song. :D But thanks, will try this technique. :)
Does anyone know what common lubricant can produce such residue? Does it look like it might be too much Superlube? It seems sticker than Krytox 103 and 201 that I'm used to. Less sticky than Victorinox oil. You can see the white residue as well as the oil-slick shiny surface all around the bottom housing.
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And this appetizing photograph is of MX Black stems soaking in detergent.
Rononol lighter fluid works great as a solvent for many oils and greases. This is safer than soap and water because it wil not oxidize metal parts.
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I'm cleaning the switch tops, the stems, and the springs,but not sure what to do about the bottoms.<-- Looks like cotton swabs soaked in alcohol work well on the slider channels in the bottom housing!
Is LZ soaking these switches in detergent?
http://lzlife.tistory.com/category/LZ%20Histroy
If so, what kind do you clean your switches with?
I had a very bad experience with washing the switches (~100 broken oxidized switch housings).
Therefore, I would like to share with anyone who is attempting to wash their switch in water.
Please be very careful, the brass contact points will get oxidized quickly and easily when they contact H20.
Actually, IMO, I think we only need to wash the stem but do not wash the switch housing.
In order to clean the switch housing, we can use a clean toothbrush to clean it.
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