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Offline xondat

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« on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 17:45:33 »
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« Last Edit: Thu, 13 July 2017, 16:13:59 by xondat »

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 17:54:02 »
Can't help with the measurements but I had to post to say that I like the look of this - good work!
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Offline ideus

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 17:56:06 »
I'd take one at fifty.


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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 18:38:58 »
Looking good!
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Offline MiTo

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 19:02:11 »
Very nice project xondat!

I'm thinking about doing the same but instead of acrylic I'll go for anodized aluminum. The thing is that I don't have LED's to make the acrylic look good, so might as well go for a heavy solid case. My board is a V60 and it would be awesome if I could avail of your renders and measurements, with your permission of course.

What's the current state of the project?



Offline nmur

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 19:08:21 »
that looks really cool!

would this be a clear acrylic? or frosted?

Offline romevi

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 19:47:43 »
That is the nicest acrylic I've seen. I'd be down for one if you ever get a few more made.
I have a cheapo TB one that I actually really like because of its angle, but it's not anywhere near resembling yours.

Offline childofthehorn

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 20:15:06 »
Keep in mind, you will need access to a 2.5D CNC and something like a Haas Mill would do quite nicely

You might want to check yours against Ziptyze
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:983332


I am working on my own here:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1187467




Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 10 December 2015, 06:37:56 »
Very nice project xondat!

I'm thinking about doing the same but instead of acrylic I'll go for anodized aluminum. The thing is that I don't have LED's to make the acrylic look good, so might as well go for a heavy solid case. My board is a V60 and it would be awesome if I could avail of your renders and measurements, with your permission of course.

What's the current state of the project?

In development at the minute. I'm happy to give you the sources I used as I'm not sure I have everything lined up properly at the minute! I'll also link you the SketchUp file for the 'plate'.

More


that looks really cool!

would this be a clear acrylic? or frosted?

I originally planned for clear but I'll look into frosted and possibly aluminum if I'm happy with how it turns out and people are interested in it; I want to avoid it being similar to, for example, a Duck board.


That is the nicest acrylic I've seen. I'd be down for one if you ever get a few more made.
I have a cheapo TB one that I actually really like because of its angle, but it's not anywhere near resembling yours.

Thanks; as mentioned above, if I'm happy with the product I'll create a IC next year in January.


Keep in mind, you will need access to a 2.5D CNC and something like a Haas Mill would do quite nicely

Cheers for the CNC info, I don't know much about it but have a friend that has a smaller one so I was planning on getting him to help quite a bit.

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 10 December 2015, 07:57:24 »
Day 2:

Realized that I made the side walls wrong, and it should also be on a 7 degrees angle perpendicular to the bottom. If I didn't notice I would of been left with an unpleasant gap between the plate and the wall (left a picture below). Fixing it now, so should be posting an improved version later with the 'finished' USB hole on the back.



After I'm happy with the design I'll contact the company I want to cut it and get a real quote and time allowance for it; I'll also do some research about frosted acrylic and aluminum.
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 June 2017, 13:31:17 by xondat »

Offline childofthehorn

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 10 December 2015, 10:01:17 »
Also, if not planning on milling your own plate, you should look at the plate templates that others have created. Just about every plate you buy has a curved edge rather than a straight one.

I have a few of the LeandreN plates and they are quite nice, especially for the price. Speaking from experience here, you would want those to be either Water-jetted or Laser cut. If you lived in Dallas, I could help you with this stuff as the Dallas Makerspace has everything other than the WaterJet. Though we do have an industrial mill that is tight enough to do plates, but the bits are very expensive.

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:01:40 »
Also, if not planning on milling your own plate, you should look at the plate templates that others have created. Just about every plate you buy has a curved edge rather than a straight one.

I have a few of the LeandreN plates and they are quite nice, especially for the price. Speaking from experience here, you would want those to be either Water-jetted or Laser cut. If you lived in Dallas, I could help you with this stuff as the Dallas Makerspace has everything other than the WaterJet. Though we do have an industrial mill that is tight enough to do plates, but the bits are very expensive.

Good call on the curved edges, I bought the 6th CF plate from Leandren so I'll check that out later. I live in the UK so I guess I have a lot less options than the US but I'll worry about that when I've completed the design :thumb:

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:09:51 »
Day 3 begins:

I've fixed the tilt problem so the plate should be flush with the case now, but as mentioned by childofthehorn, I need to work out the compatibilty with curved edge plates. That's a smaller design point at this minute though, and it might come down to preference unless I can convince jdcarpe to tel me the curvature, but if I only make it work for his plates then it may not be compatible with others if I do plan to sell future copies. I'll leave it for now though.



Here is the side profile at the minute without the bottom half completed. It measures exactly 25mm x 99.25mm. I really want it to be 25mm x 100mm but that would involve making the top or bottom edge more than 3mm; all edges are currently 3mm so it's a balance on which I prefer. I think I prefer all sides being 3mm over 0.75mm, which is frankly a tiny space & tweak.

I'm still unsure on the placement and sizing of the standoffs, so I may have to leave it for a while until I either get my Pok3r, which is a gift for Christmas, or a very kind user comes along and helps me with those. *hint* :thumb:

But for now, I'll carry on and perfect the side profile, as I want it to be as perfect as I can design it; I want it to look exactly how I did before which shouldn't be too hard but I apparently produced some very awkward decimals in the process. I'll update on my progress tomorrow as the development continues.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:15:16 »
Here is a plate for you, output from builder.swillkb.com :)
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Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 11 December 2015, 13:16:47 »
Here is a plate for you, output from builder.swillkb.com :)

Is the width not 94mm then? This one appears to be 94.49mm; I'm so confused but this is helpful.

Offline Zekromtor

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 11 December 2015, 13:36:40 »
Where are you sourcing your acrylic? I'm surprised you can get a chunk that big for under 50 dollars.

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 12 December 2015, 17:42:07 »
Where are you sourcing your acrylic? I'm surprised you can get a chunk that big for under 50 dollars.

In the UK, 25mm clear perspex.

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 12 December 2015, 18:12:36 »
Day 4:

Version 1 is complete!

I don't have any immediate changes that I want to make but I may consider things like curving the edges. I probably will have to change the size and placement of the USB port to make it universal but I think it will do for now. I'm still wary of the standoffs probably being incorrect but they are directly in the same position as the CAD file jdcarpe kindly provided. Overall size of the uncut block I'll require is 292.000293 x 100.780545 x 25mm (WxLxH) and I've left 0.5mm on each side of the plate as a margin. Any feedback, positive or negative I'll take, as it is a personal project but I want everyone's opinions on it.

Here are the pictures:











« Last Edit: Sun, 13 December 2015, 17:54:24 by xondat »

Offline ideus

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 12 December 2015, 18:28:37 »
It looks awesome, are you considering to get a prototype manufactured?

Offline MiTo

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 12 December 2015, 19:49:21 »
Version 1 is complete!

I don't have any immediate changes that I want to make but I may consider things like curving the edges. I probably will have to change the size and placement of the USB port to make it universal but I think it will do for now. I'm still wary of the standoffs probably being incorrect but they are directly in the same position as the CAD file jdcarpe kindly provided. Overall size of the uncut block I'll require is 292.000293 x 100.780545 x 25mm (WxLxH) and I've left 0.5mm on each side of the plate as a margin. Any feedback, positive or negative I'll take, as it is a personal project but I want everyone's opinions on it.

Here are the pictures:

Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


It's looking fabulous and assuming compatibility with the V60, a frosted acrylic or anodized aluminum version of this case would perfectly fit my needs. :thumb:



Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 13 December 2015, 03:07:27 »
It looks awesome, are you considering to get a prototype manufactured?

Absolutely. If there are enough people interested I will produce final versions after I am happy with how the prototype turns out.


It's looking fabulous and assuming compatibility with the V60, a frosted acrylic or anodized aluminum version of this case would perfectly fit my needs. :thumb:

It is using the universal plate that jdcarpe and leandren sell so if that's compatible then yes it is. Do you think you could provide me with the measurements for the V60's standoffs? I can check that way too ans it would be good to know.

I'm currently being quoted for clear acrylic, frosted acrylic and aluminum.

Offline MiTo

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 13 December 2015, 04:55:03 »

It is using the universal plate that jdcarpe and leandren sell so if that's compatible then yes it is. Do you think you could provide me with the measurements for the V60's standoffs? I can check that way too ans it would be good to know.

I'm currently being quoted for clear acrylic, frosted acrylic and aluminum.

It's very exciting to hear that you're already being quoted for the case in such materials, this is a very cool project and I can't wait to see the first prototype!

I believe I can provide you with the measurements, but it would take a couple of days to get an answer because I'm gonna ask other owners and different people. Unfortunately I don't have the required tools right now with me, but I will do my best to gather the information from different sources. If the plate is universal, than its gonna work but I'll try to confirm the exact V60 numbers. I speak with LeandreN very frequently so it shouldn't be a problem. I will also consult other V60 owners and Massdrop too. Can you check with JD?




Offline p1114501510

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 13 December 2015, 06:21:24 »
It looks very cool, and maybe I can provide some measurement. So just PM me when you need some help.

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece 60% Case
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 13 December 2015, 16:41:01 »
Day 5:

Nothing much today, raised the standoffs 0.5mm as suggested by JD and got a quote for 6082 gray aluminium! Very expensive; looking at £450 ($680) each for 20 - I think I'll do acrylic first. The acrylic quotes should be finalized by Friday, but still have yet to get a response so we'll see. I'm hoping it isn't too bad like the aluminium.

But for now, I can look at sourcing some M2 4mm (0.4 pitch) clear screws, this might take a while and will have to order a lot more than what I need but whatever.

-----

It looks very cool, and maybe I can provide some measurement. So just PM me when you need some help.
I need as many as I can because I'm paranoid I'll get it wrong, PM me when you have time!

It's very exciting to hear that you're already being quoted for the case in such materials, this is a very cool project and I can't wait to see the first prototype!

I believe I can provide you with the measurements, but it would take a couple of days to get an answer because I'm gonna ask other owners and different people. Unfortunately I don't have the required tools right now with me, but I will do my best to gather the information from different sources. If the plate is universal, than its gonna work but I'll try to confirm the exact V60 numbers. I speak with LeandreN very frequently so it shouldn't be a problem. I will also consult other V60 owners and Massdrop too. Can you check with JD?
I'm most likely ordering Friday so if I get them by then it's fine, if not then it's okay because the first one is a prototype. JD actually linked me the plate that I modelled around in the screenshot, so everything fits in that department.

Offline Wilkie

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 13 December 2015, 18:20:04 »
Xondat, you mentioned a very high cost for aluminum.  I wonder if it is possible to do cast aluminum instead of CNC, that might cost much less.  The raw aluminum itself is inexpensive.

Offline ideus

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 13 December 2015, 18:22:37 »
Xondat, you mentioned a very high cost for aluminum.  I wonder if it is possible to do cast aluminum instead of CNC, that might cost much less.  The raw aluminum itself is inexpensive.


The mold for die casting is not cheap though.

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 13 December 2015, 18:35:54 »
Xondat, you mentioned a very high cost for aluminum.  I wonder if it is possible to do cast aluminum instead of CNC, that might cost much less.  The raw aluminum itself is inexpensive.
I shall investigate.

Offline ideus

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 13 December 2015, 18:44:57 »
You can use this tool to estimate the cost of the mold.

Offline fknraiden

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 13 December 2015, 19:11:23 »
hey look!
its ducks case design!

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Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 14 December 2015, 12:18:08 »
hey look!
its ducks case design!
Maybe you can expand and show me how they're similar? I'm always taking feedback so as long as there's evidence behind it then I'll alter it accordingly, BUT it is a personal project for now and also acrylic and not the same material as he used.

Offline MiTo

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 14 December 2015, 12:28:00 »
hey look!
its ducks case design!



That's why I love aluminum!

However, xandot's current prices for CNC aluminum are indeed extreme. Until he finds an alternative for aluminum case manufacturing I think it's clever to focus on acrylic. As a bit on an update, I'm currently doing my research with V60 owners and I expect to hopefully have a solid answer by the end of the week. Also, In a couple of weeks I'll be able to visit a few local CNC aluminum/acrylic companies to get quotes. Since I'm from Brazil, perhaps it could be a cheaper option since US$1 = R$4, but I need a spreadsheet with the measurements before my visits.   



Offline MiTo

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 08:58:37 »
Tuesday Update:

Great news for V60 users, as yesterday I had the chance to compare standoffs and measurements with multiple people. It turns out that the KBParadise V60 Mini (with Cherry MX or Gateron switches) has 4 screwing holes positioned in the exact same place as 4 (out of the 6 total screws) from the Poker II. I'll attach some pictures for reference below.

Poker II:


KBParadise V60 (Cherry MX or Gateron switches):


Current case prototype:


As you can see, it's completely possible to use custom plates (LeandreN/JD) and cases, given the standoffs positioning. One important thing to note is that the same does not apply to the KBParadise V60 Mini with Matias switches. Such version doesn't have holes in the plate and you'll have to mod it a little bit in order to make a custom case fit. Check this guide right here, in case you have a V60 Mini with Matias switches and want a custom case.

For now that's pretty much it, as I'm currently standing by for the exact standoff numbers. I'll most likely take the numbers provided here and move forward because LivingSpeedBump has been very busy lately and I don't think he'll be able to deliver before xondat's deadline (Friday, December 18 - 2015). In a couple of weeks I'll begin to visit some CNC aluminum and acrylic companies here in Brazil in the hopes of perhaps offering a cheaper aluminum version for the buy. 



Offline ideus

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:09:03 »
Acrylic would be more expensive than aluminum? Really? Why TEX cases are the opposite? The same design is always cheaper in acrylic.

Offline E3E

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:27:10 »
hey look!
its ducks case design!

It also looks similar to the FMJ 60% cases

I should note that I don't see anything wrong with this. It's one of the best ways to allow a good grip on a heavy keyboard. Duck also puts dual purpose in the design by allowing LEDs to shine through that area, for which he also has custom inserts to allow the light to glow through.
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:29:08 by E3E »

Offline lolpes

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 10:22:11 »
Acrylic would be more expensive than aluminum? Really? Why TEX cases are the opposite? The same design is always cheaper in acrylic.

I think he meant a cheaper aluminum case compared to the previous estimates, not to the acrylic ones ;)

Offline ideus

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 10:35:54 »
Acrylic would be more expensive than aluminum? Really? Why TEX cases are the opposite? The same design is always cheaper in acrylic.

I think he meant a cheaper aluminum case compared to the previous estimates, not to the acrylic ones ;)


It makes sense.

Offline MrRooks

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 11:00:25 »
This looks good! I'm working on a one piece case myself.

This does remind me of Ducks cases(not a bad thing, I love my Octagon). The difference with this one is the front and rear edges are vertical where Ducks(and almost every other case) are angled. IE The top angles of the case are set to 90deg and the bottom of the case is where the tilt happens.

Offline MiTo

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 13:47:36 »
Acrylic would be more expensive than aluminum? Really? Why TEX cases are the opposite? The same design is always cheaper in acrylic.

I think he meant a cheaper aluminum case compared to the previous estimates, not to the acrylic ones ;)


It makes sense.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Unfortunately xandot's current quotes for CNC aluminum are extremely steep and I'm trying to find a cheaper manufacturer here in Brazil. Xandot is looking on UK.



Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 16:09:23 »
Day 7:

Tuesday Update:

Great news for V60 users, as yesterday I had the chance to compare standoffs and measurements with multiple people. It turns out that the KBParadise V60 Mini (with Cherry MX or Gateron switches) has 4 screwing holes positioned in the exact same place as 4 (out of the 6 total screws) from the Poker II. I'll attach some pictures for reference below.

More
Poker II:

Show Image

KBParadise V60 (Cherry MX or Gateron switches):

Show Image

Current case prototype:

Show Image

As you can see, it's completely possible to use custom plates (LeandreN/JD) and cases, given the standoffs positioning. One important thing to note is that the same does not apply to the KBParadise V60 Mini with Matias switches. Such version doesn't have holes in the plate and you'll have to mod it a little bit in order to make a custom case fit. Check this guide right here, in case you have a V60 Mini with Matias switches and want a custom case.

For now that's pretty much it, as I'm currently standing by for the exact standoff numbers. I'll most likely take the numbers provided here and move forward because LivingSpeedBump has been very busy lately and I don't think he'll be able to deliver before xondat's deadline (Friday, December 18 - 2015). In a couple of weeks I'll begin to visit some CNC aluminum and acrylic companies here in Brazil in the hopes of perhaps offering a cheaper aluminum version for the buy.

MiTo - the man of the hour. Thanks so much for this detail overview and research. :-*

Acrylic would be more expensive than aluminum? Really? Why TEX cases are the opposite? The same design is always cheaper in acrylic.

I think he meant a cheaper aluminum case compared to the previous estimates, not to the acrylic ones ;)

It makes sense.

I'm confused on how you came to this conclusion; I think I meant I'll focus on acrylic instead of aluminium because of the massive starting price.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Unfortunately xandot's current quotes for CNC aluminum are extremely steep and I'm trying to find a cheaper manufacturer here in Brazil. Xandot is looking on UK.

Xondat not xandot ;) Speaking of cheaper manufacturers, good news follows below.



---------



Today I got my 2nd quote back for aluminium - IT'S GREAT NEWS! It's 220 ea for 25 made and 210 ea for 50! Compared to the previous quote of 450 ea for 20. I might consider involving aluminium if I run a group buy, which I really want to now. Prices however are not final due to shipping and fees, if I were to sell them. If they are still too high, I may be able to hustle them down a bit more.

I will now pursue acrylic prices for clear and frosted. But due to me having no idea how to use any program that makes STL, STEP, IGS or PARASOLID the companies are having some trouble. If anyone can help me here, then I'll pay you as long as it's identical, PM me so we can work something out.

No design changes over the past couple of days, and none are needed because of MiTo being extremely kind and helpful, providing me with a mass of detail. :thumb:

Offline romevi

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 16:25:24 »
Day 7:

Tuesday Update:

Great news for V60 users, as yesterday I had the chance to compare standoffs and measurements with multiple people. It turns out that the KBParadise V60 Mini (with Cherry MX or Gateron switches) has 4 screwing holes positioned in the exact same place as 4 (out of the 6 total screws) from the Poker II. I'll attach some pictures for reference below.

More
Poker II:

Show Image

KBParadise V60 (Cherry MX or Gateron switches):

Show Image

Current case prototype:

Show Image

As you can see, it's completely possible to use custom plates (LeandreN/JD) and cases, given the standoffs positioning. One important thing to note is that the same does not apply to the KBParadise V60 Mini with Matias switches. Such version doesn't have holes in the plate and you'll have to mod it a little bit in order to make a custom case fit. Check this guide right here, in case you have a V60 Mini with Matias switches and want a custom case.

For now that's pretty much it, as I'm currently standing by for the exact standoff numbers. I'll most likely take the numbers provided here and move forward because LivingSpeedBump has been very busy lately and I don't think he'll be able to deliver before xondat's deadline (Friday, December 18 - 2015). In a couple of weeks I'll begin to visit some CNC aluminum and acrylic companies here in Brazil in the hopes of perhaps offering a cheaper aluminum version for the buy.

MiTo - the man of the hour. Thanks so much for this detail overview and research. :-*

Acrylic would be more expensive than aluminum? Really? Why TEX cases are the opposite? The same design is always cheaper in acrylic.

I think he meant a cheaper aluminum case compared to the previous estimates, not to the acrylic ones ;)

It makes sense.

I'm confused on how you came to this conclusion; I think I meant I'll focus on acrylic instead of aluminium because of the massive starting price.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Unfortunately xandot's current quotes for CNC aluminum are extremely steep and I'm trying to find a cheaper manufacturer here in Brazil. Xandot is looking on UK.

Xondat not xandot ;) Speaking of cheaper manufacturers, good news follows below.



---------



Today I got my 2nd quote back for aluminium - IT'S GREAT NEWS! It's 220 ea for 25 made and 210 ea for 50! Compared to the previous quote of 450 ea for 20. I might consider involving aluminium if I run a group buy, which I really want to now. Prices however are not final due to shipping and fees, if I were to sell them. If they are still too high, I may be able to hustle them down a bit more.

I will now pursue acrylic prices for clear and frosted. But due to me having no idea how to use any program that makes STL, STEP, IGS or PARASOLID the companies are having some trouble. If anyone can help me here, then I'll pay you as long as it's identical, PM me so we can work something out.

No design changes over the past couple of days, and none are needed because of MiTo being extremely kind and helpful, providing me with a mass of detail. :thumb:

Would def be in for a frosted one.

Offline MiTo

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 16:39:45 »

Today I got my 2nd quote back for aluminium - IT'S GREAT NEWS! It's 220 ea for 25 made and 210 ea for 50! Compared to the previous quote of 450 ea for 20. I might consider involving aluminium if I run a group buy, which I really want to now. Prices however are not final due to shipping and fees, if I were to sell them. If they are still too high, I may be able to hustle them down a bit more.

I will now pursue acrylic prices for clear and frosted. But due to me having no idea how to use any program that makes STL, STEP, IGS or PARASOLID the companies are having some trouble. If anyone can help me here, then I'll pay you as long as it's identical, PM me so we can work something out.

No design changes over the past couple of days, and none are needed because of MiTo being extremely kind and helpful, providing me with a mass of detail.  :thumb:

I wouldn't be able to make such a detailed research without the help of LeandreN so a big shoutout to the man. Also, I promise to never confuse your ID anymore.

Regarding aluminum, I find fantastic that you managed to cut the price by half, that's an exciting start indeed. What are the aluminuim specs for the $210/50 version? Do you think you could provide colored anodized? I believe some people would be super hyped about this possibility. Obviously, the smart thing to do here is to chop down the prices as much as you possibly can without compromising quality, finish and looks, to attract buyers. I'd recomend you to see what else you can do in this department. As I stated before, I'll be able to make some visits and ask for quotes in a couple of weeks. I'll try my best to gather as much infomartion as possible, for both acrylic and aluminum. Let's see how it pans out.

Regarding the design, the manufacturer can't work with standard CAD files?



Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 16:45:16 »

Today I got my 2nd quote back for aluminium - IT'S GREAT NEWS! It's 220 ea for 25 made and 210 ea for 50! Compared to the previous quote of 450 ea for 20. I might consider involving aluminium if I run a group buy, which I really want to now. Prices however are not final due to shipping and fees, if I were to sell them. If they are still too high, I may be able to hustle them down a bit more.

I will now pursue acrylic prices for clear and frosted. But due to me having no idea how to use any program that makes STL, STEP, IGS or PARASOLID the companies are having some trouble. If anyone can help me here, then I'll pay you as long as it's identical, PM me so we can work something out.

No design changes over the past couple of days, and none are needed because of MiTo being extremely kind and helpful, providing me with a mass of detail.  :thumb:

I wouldn't be able to make such a detailed research without the help of LeandreN so a big shoutout to the man. Also, I promise to never confuse your ID anymore.

Regarding aluminum, I find fantastic that you managed to cut the price by half, that's an exciting start indeed. What are the aluminuim specs for the $210/50 version? Do you think you could provide colored anodized? I believe some people would be super hyped about this possibility. Obviously, the smart thing to do here is to chop down the prices as much as you possibly can without compromising quality, finish and looks, to attract buyers. I'd recomend you to see what else you can do in this department. As I stated before, I'll be able to make some visits and ask for quotes in a couple of weeks. I'll try my best to gather as much infomartion as possible, for both acrylic and aluminum. Let's see how it pans out.

Regarding the design, the manufacturer can't work with standard CAD files?

It's 6061 grade and anodization is in the price as far as I am aware - the exact quote is "xt60cv1-1 Aluminium 6061 - Anodised". I'll ask about quality.

I used SketchUp and it doesn't export to anything usable by most companies apart from STL, which is a bit dodgy for the.

S/O to LeandreN too ;D


Would def be in for a frosted one.

I should have the quotes and prototypes done by the end of this year. IC early January if it gets that far.


Offline Frigid

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 20:41:38 »
If this case becomes as beautiful as the renders, my wallet is about to hurt.

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 22:54:39 »
Definitely interested, but... blah 60%  :-\
there's already so many good options for 60%, the other sizes, notably 75% and TKL, need some more love!

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 16 December 2015, 03:05:04 »
Definitely interested, but... blah 60%  :-\
there's already so many good options for 60%, the other sizes, notably 75% and TKL, need some more love!
Yeah I know the market essentially has too many 60%; I did this because I ordered a carbon fibre plate and want to show that and the PCB off. I might make a case for either a TKL or a 75% (using the B.mini PCB).

Offline E3E

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 16 December 2015, 06:46:58 »
Definitely interested, but... blah 60%  :-\
there's already so many good options for 60%, the other sizes, notably 75% and TKL, need some more love!

This is very true.

Some aftermarket 75% cases and PCBs would rock my world.  I think skullydazed can help provide the latter once his Clueboard shop is up and running full steam. :D

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 16 December 2015, 06:58:51 »
Added a poll; I'm not sure whether I should implement rounded corners into the design instead of sharp cut edges. I'd love to know everyone's opinion on this.

http://strawpoll.me/6282126
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 December 2015, 07:01:04 by xondat »

Offline MiTo

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 16 December 2015, 07:00:54 »

rounded corners into the design instead of sharp cut edges.


WhiteFox style?



Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 16 December 2015, 07:02:44 »

rounded corners into the design instead of sharp cut edges.


WhiteFox style?

Sort of, more subtle. Its really so I don't stab myself when I pick it up.

Offline MiTo

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Re: Single Piece Acrylic 60% Case
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 16 December 2015, 07:12:05 »
Sort of, more subtle. Its really so I don't stab myself when I pick it up.

That's actually a good idea.

A bit of an input - I don't think a WhiteFox styled round corner would combo well with acrylic, I mean it's gonna work for sure with aluminum but not with acrylic.

I believe that very subtle corners for both versions is a feature good enough to make them look and feel great. Not completely rough and sharp and also not completely rounded. To be honest, I'd rather have these cases with "sanded" corners (obviously not sanded with sandpaper, I'm speaking about the manufacturer's finish technique).



Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece 60% Case (XT60 Aluminium & Frosted/Clear Acrylic)
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 16 December 2015, 17:37:30 »
Day 8:

Small update - imported successfully into FreeCAD and getting the file fixed into something prettier.

Acrylic quoters are painfully slow. Let's hope that they'll finish whatever they're doing so that I can get their quotes and get a prototype on my desk by the end of the year!



If anyone knows how to make the faces into 1 piece and not split how it is now, then please reply here or PM me. :thumb:

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece 60% Case (XT60 Aluminium & Frosted/Clear Acrylic)
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 17 December 2015, 18:40:54 »
Nothing much to say apart from I'm still tracing the import - here is what I'm up to.



USB port, standoffs, and feet are what's left to do. Then digital prototyping is officially over.

Offline xondat

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Re: Single Piece 60% Case (XT60 Aluminium & Frosted/Clear Acrylic)
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 19 December 2015, 10:45:36 »
I need someone to help me finish the model as I don't know how to make the standoffs effectively without making it look like a mesh model. If you can help, reply here or PM me :-*

For now though, I decided to get a 3D printed plate and case prototype made  -  3/4 day shipping period, so should be here before Christmas. If I'm happy with it, then I'll start an IC thread and go from there.

Offline ideus

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 19 December 2015, 10:50:17 »
Count me in for an acrylic one. It is a very nice design. Where do you plan to move it to the IC phase?

Offline xondat

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 19 December 2015, 10:59:29 »
Count me in for an acrylic one. It is a very nice design. Where do you plan to move it to the IC phase?
Where or when? When would be before the new year as long as the 3D prints get here. Making 1 acrylic case is way too costly so I'm taking a most cost effective measure.

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #55 on: Sat, 19 December 2015, 11:20:43 »
Count me in for an acrylic one. It is a very nice design. Where do you plan to move it to the IC phase?
Where or when? When would be before the new year as long as the 3D prints get here. Making 1 acrylic case is way too costly so I'm taking a most cost effective measure.


That is what I meant thank you.

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #56 on: Sat, 19 December 2015, 11:44:01 »
Looks good. You need to add fillets to internal edges to allow them to be machined. I would recommend you add fillets to some of the outer edges too, and chamfers along the top rim.
https://kbdarchive.org/
github
discord: hi mum#5710

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #57 on: Sat, 19 December 2015, 11:55:04 »

You need to add fillets to internal edges to allow them to be machined.


I'm not entirely sure this is necessary, do you have a source?



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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #58 on: Sat, 19 December 2015, 12:09:33 »
Keeping my eye on this, looks good so far, keep it up   ;D
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline xondat

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #59 on: Sat, 19 December 2015, 13:38:48 »
Looks good. You need to add fillets to internal edges to allow them to be machined. I would recommend you add fillets to some of the outer edges too, and chamfers along the top rim.
Can you expand on what you mean? I've self taught everything and I don't even know what's right and wrong so far.
Why would I need to do this?

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #60 on: Sat, 19 December 2015, 19:32:23 »
Looking good! Definitely interested in this when it hits IC phase.

Offline Photekq

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 20 December 2015, 13:45:15 »
I'm not entirely sure this is necessary, do you have a source?
It's necessary. If this is to be CNC milled from a solid block of material then the internal edges must have radii. This is a limitation of milling.

Can you expand on what you mean? I've self taught everything and I don't even know what's right and wrong so far.
Why would I need to do this?
I will do my best. I will try and give an explanation assuming no prior knowledge in order to make it as simple as possible.

First, I used the word 'fillet'. Here is the definition of that word : In mechanical engineering, a fillet /ˈfɪlɨt/ is a rounding of an interior or exterior corner of a part design.

That is, to give an edge a fillet is to give it a radius.

An internal edge with a fillet/An internal edge with a radius :



An internal edge without a fillet/An internal edge without a radius :


 
First, understand the basic concept of milling : You have a cutter that spins in order to move material. This cutter (in the case of a 3-axis mill, for example) can move along three axes : x,y,z. In other words : left and right, forward and backward, up and down. CNC mills are exactly the same, but the movements along the axes are precisely controlled with motors and a numerical input, rather than manually controlled.

These cutters come in many shapes and sizes. You have ones for cutting regular holes that look like drillbits, you have these for cutting chamfers.

However, regardless of the shape and size of the cutter, one thing remains constant : They spin in a circle. Therefore, they CANNOT form internal square edges! All internal edges MUST have a radius.

For example, the below would not be possible :



However, the below would be possible, since cutters can form those circular edges. Note that EXTERNAL square edges are absolutely possible, just not INTERNAL ones :



It may be helpful to imagine a cutter as a cylinder, which removes any material that any part of that cylinder touches. Realise that this cannot possibly form square internal edges.

I do hope this helps to explain things.

---

I recommend giving external edges fillets too for aesthetics, and so that people don't cut themselves on those sharp edges! I recommend giving the top rim chamfers (like this for the same reasons.
https://kbdarchive.org/
github
discord: hi mum#5710

Offline ideus

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #62 on: Sun, 20 December 2015, 15:10:45 »
This link provides some general rules about milling parts, there are also tolerance thresholds that are associated with the material of the part.

Offline MiTo

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #63 on: Sun, 20 December 2015, 16:38:01 »
More
I'm not entirely sure this is necessary, do you have a source?
It's necessary. If this is to be CNC milled from a solid block of material then the internal edges must have radii. This is a limitation of milling.

Can you expand on what you mean? I've self taught everything and I don't even know what's right and wrong so far.
Why would I need to do this?
I will do my best. I will try and give an explanation assuming no prior knowledge in order to make it as simple as possible.

First, I used the word 'fillet'. Here is the definition of that word : In mechanical engineering, a fillet /ˈfɪlɨt/ is a rounding of an interior or exterior corner of a part design.

That is, to give an edge a fillet is to give it a radius.

An internal edge with a fillet/An internal edge with a radius :

Show Image


An internal edge without a fillet/An internal edge without a radius :

Show Image

 
First, understand the basic concept of milling : You have a cutter that spins in order to move material. This cutter (in the case of a 3-axis mill, for example) can move along three axes : x,y,z. In other words : left and right, forward and backward, up and down. CNC mills are exactly the same, but the movements along the axes are precisely controlled with motors and a numerical input, rather than manually controlled.

These cutters come in many shapes and sizes. You have ones for cutting regular holes that look like drillbits, you have these for cutting chamfers.

However, regardless of the shape and size of the cutter, one thing remains constant : They spin in a circle. Therefore, they CANNOT form internal square edges! All internal edges MUST have a radius.

For example, the below would not be possible :

Show Image


However, the below would be possible, since cutters can form those circular edges. Note that EXTERNAL square edges are absolutely possible, just not INTERNAL ones :

Show Image


It may be helpful to imagine a cutter as a cylinder, which removes any material that any part of that cylinder touches. Realise that this cannot possibly form square internal edges.

I do hope this helps to explain things.

---

I recommend giving external edges fillets too for aesthetics, and so that people don't cut themselves on those sharp edges! I recommend giving the top rim chamfers (like this for the same reasons.

This is absolutely correct, and I already knew this. Nevertheless, I apreciate the detailed post and explanation!

The whole confusion was that me, as a non-native english speaker, thought that the "internal fillets" you mentioned were these stripes I highlited in green. 


I'm pretty sure these stripes (fins) aren't required for milled aluminum design.


Original image, for reference.

But again, thank you very much for the detailed post and detailed explanation, you provided fantastic images, sources and information that definitely add to our discussion!



Offline Photekq

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #64 on: Sun, 20 December 2015, 16:56:06 »
Oh yeah, those aren't necessary (although do give more support for the PCB). They definitely aren't fillets either :))
https://kbdarchive.org/
github
discord: hi mum#5710

Offline MiTo

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 20 December 2015, 17:16:10 »
Oh yeah, those aren't necessary (although do give more support for the PCB). They definitely aren't fillets either :))

Absolutely, I apologize for my ignorance.

Mining engineer undergrad here, don't know much about materials/manufacturing engineering besides from what I learned with personal experience in constructing/building things.



Offline xondat

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #66 on: Sun, 20 December 2015, 18:33:29 »
More
I'm not entirely sure this is necessary, do you have a source?
It's necessary. If this is to be CNC milled from a solid block of material then the internal edges must have radii. This is a limitation of milling.

Can you expand on what you mean? I've self taught everything and I don't even know what's right and wrong so far.
Why would I need to do this?
I will do my best. I will try and give an explanation assuming no prior knowledge in order to make it as simple as possible.

First, I used the word 'fillet'. Here is the definition of that word : In mechanical engineering, a fillet /ˈfɪlɨt/ is a rounding of an interior or exterior corner of a part design.

That is, to give an edge a fillet is to give it a radius.

An internal edge with a fillet/An internal edge with a radius :

Show Image


An internal edge without a fillet/An internal edge without a radius :

Show Image

 
First, understand the basic concept of milling : You have a cutter that spins in order to move material. This cutter (in the case of a 3-axis mill, for example) can move along three axes : x,y,z. In other words : left and right, forward and backward, up and down. CNC mills are exactly the same, but the movements along the axes are precisely controlled with motors and a numerical input, rather than manually controlled.

These cutters come in many shapes and sizes. You have ones for cutting regular holes that look like drillbits, you have these for cutting chamfers.

However, regardless of the shape and size of the cutter, one thing remains constant : They spin in a circle. Therefore, they CANNOT form internal square edges! All internal edges MUST have a radius.

For example, the below would not be possible :

Show Image


However, the below would be possible, since cutters can form those circular edges. Note that EXTERNAL square edges are absolutely possible, just not INTERNAL ones :

Show Image


It may be helpful to imagine a cutter as a cylinder, which removes any material that any part of that cylinder touches. Realise that this cannot possibly form square internal edges.

I do hope this helps to explain things.

---

I recommend giving external edges fillets too for aesthetics, and so that people don't cut themselves on those sharp edges! I recommend giving the top rim chamfers (like this for the same reasons.

Thanks for the in-depth overview - I'm learning the ins and outs (no pun intended) of this every day.

Day whatever:

No design change today. I now have my Norwegian friend modelling the case for me as he works in industrial design. So to me, a noob to CAD, this is fantastic news.

I also should have a few 3D printed quotes back soon, strictly for prototypes; doubt they'll be here before Christmas day as it's so late now.

As mentioned previously, I will be running an Interest Check providing that I have a prototype here by the end of the year. I'll be producing clear acrylic, frosted acrylic and many different colored (at request) anodized aluminium cases. Not sure about cost too much but I am trying to run the prices under $100 for acrylic and $250 for aluminium. Again with amounts, from what I can tell there will have to be a lot of aluminium ones for a lower price, not sure about acrylic right this moment. I also have the option to have plastic injection molded cases; let me know if anyone is interested at this stage.

TL;DR: getting quotes for 3D printed prototypes, will have an IC for clear acrylic, frosted acrylic & anodized aluminium.

Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 20 December 2015, 18:54:09 »
I'm most likely interested in a frosted acrylic or if you can get colored acrylic I'd be interested in green.

Offline xondat

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 13:59:14 »
Final update post here before I post an interest check as everything is done in the design department and I don't want to be double posting in the future.

3D print samples are on the way, 3D printing the prototype will cost me $130 which is steep but it's also a usable case. As long as the measurements work out correctly then, with enough interest, the group buy should start.

Options I'll be offering are:
  • Clear Acrylic
  • Frosted Acrylic
  • Anodized Aluminium
    • 4 community chosen colors

If there is interest behind colored acrylic, then I can research this. I want to keep the different variations to a minimum though.

Interest check will start by the end of the week.

For now, here is a 3D model preview of the case:

« Last Edit: Tue, 22 December 2015, 19:04:17 by xondat »

Offline romevi

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 14:10:48 »
Final update post here before I post an interest check as everything is done in the design department and I don't want to be double posting in the future.

3D print samples are on the way, 3D printing the prototype will cost me $130 which is steep but it's also a usable case. As long as the measurements work out correctly then, with enough interest, the group buy should start.

Options I'll be offering are:
  • Clear Acrylic
  • Frosted Acrylic
  • Anodized Aluminium
    • 4 community chosen colors

If there is interest behind colored acrylic, then I can research this. I want to keep the different variations to a minimum though.

Interest check will start by the end of the week.

For now, here is a 3D model preview of the case:

Show Image


Very nice!

Offline ideus

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 15:36:42 »
A frosted acrylic would be great.

Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 18:24:45 »
Model looks good. I'm going to have to pick up another 60% board so I can use it!  :D

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 18:59:48 »
Regarding KBP V60 boards with Matias switches, I heard from a KBP rep that they will be releasing a revised board that will have 3 holes in the PCB and plate suitable for mounting in standard 60% cases. The ETA was late December 2015. We shall see....

Offline MiTo

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #73 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 19:05:14 »
Regarding KBP V60 boards with Matias switches, I heard from a KBP rep that they will be releasing a revised board that will have 3 holes in the PCB and plate suitable for mounting in standard 60% cases. The ETA was late December 2015. We shall see....

Really?!

That's super cool, I'm really looking forward this information.

Is there any specific place I could look?



Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #74 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 19:43:34 »
Regarding KBP V60 boards with Matias switches, I heard from a KBP rep that they will be releasing a revised board that will have 3 holes in the PCB and plate suitable for mounting in standard 60% cases. The ETA was late December 2015. We shall see....

Really?!

That's super cool, I'm really looking forward this information.

Is there any specific place I could look?

Ooh. That's great news! Might be a great time to get an alps board and a sweet case at roughly the same time =]

Offline xondat

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 23 December 2015, 18:15:33 »
No more updates here? Think again.

3D print samples didn't arrive, so it looks like next week now. I'm either getting it 3D printed or CNC'd out of wood, as a GH user has offered. I get my Pok3r basically tomorrow so at that point I won't need a prototype made, as I will first hand know the measurements for a perfect case. This means that I can have the CAD file finished before the end of the week and start the IC as planned. I'll be ringing for acrylic quotes as soon as the companies that I have been recommended get back to their offices. This is the 4th at the earliest. Bummer.

I don't want to rush this though, but a longer interest check period will benefit both parties in this case and will get that done soon. I have already wrote it, it just needs publishing at this point. Let me know whether I should go ahead with the 3D print or have the prototype in wood.

Offline xondat

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Re: XT60 - Xondat's 60% Acrylic/Aluminium Cases
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 24 December 2015, 15:26:04 »
Interest Check can be found here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78103.0