Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 22 October 2019, 07:52:58
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Gondolindrim/Doddle60/master/graphics/doddle60Logo/doddle60LogoMonochromatic.png)
Doddle. British slang for something easily accomplished.
Usage example: Mate, that homework was a complete doddle to do!
Hi there guys!
This is actually my second IC and I'd like some community feedback.
As I'm not a prominent community member, I first present myself. I'm Gondolindrim, a Brazilian mech enthusiast and PCB designer.
Long story short, as you guys know there is a big space in the hobby for what has been called "plain-style" PCBs, which most common characteristic is the limited layout compatibility and features, in order to make an easy-to-build PCB. Unfortunately only ANSI versions are available as ISO layouts are often discarded for the little parcentage of the hobby it represents. As such, I have been receiving many requests from our fellow european clackers to make a plain ISO 60% PCB. Some weeks ago I reached out to Jae, from TopClack, who is an open advocate of ISO compatibility, and he suggested the compatible layouts.
The PCB
The PCB has some nice features to it, despite its simple nature:
- USBC connector;
- ESD protection on data lines;
- TVS (Transient Voltage Suppression) on power lines, protecting the PCB from voltage spikes;
- Full digital power rails isolation and filtering, stabilizing MCU voltage and avoiding power bugs;
- Data lines differential pair impedance matching through differential-coupled ferrite core choke;
- Cable shield discharge protection;
- Overvoltage and overcurrent protection;
- Current inrush protection from metallic cases;
- ARM STM32F072 processor; all unused pins are broken out so that the user can expand the PCB in any way;
- Universal screw holes "Poker 60%" format, making it compatible with most 60% cases;
- First backers will get a version in which "pre-Alpha revision" is expressly written.
As all the PCBs in my open-project Acheron, the Doddle60 is open-source. It features an ARM STM32F072 processor and flex cuts. I have a maximum of 10 units for this IC as I will assemble them myself by hand.
You can access the files at the Github repository https://github.com/Gondolindrim/Doddle60 (https://github.com/Gondolindrim/Doddle60).
The name "Doddle" was suggested by Jae, as a nod to the fact that the PCB features few layouts and has the philosophy of being simple.
The PCB documentation will be found at the AcheronDocs page http://gondolindrim.github.io/AcheronDocs (http://gondolindrim.github.io/AcheronDocs), where all documentation for the Acheron Project PCBs are. As of today the Doddle60 does not have a page, but I'll add it shortly once I prototype them.
The PCB is QMK compatible. VIA compatibility is not an option at this time as VIA is not accepting new boards right now, but in the future maybe they will open up again and, if they do, I will try to make it compatible.
Supported layouts
See the below image for the proposed layouts.
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Gondolindrim/Doddle60/master/graphics/KLE/doddle60KLE.png)
Preliminary PCB renders
Renders obtained through tracespace.io website.
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Gondolindrim/Doddle60/master/graphics/renders/bottomRender.png]https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Gondolindrim/Doddle60/master/graphics/renders/bottomRender.png)
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Gondolindrim/Doddle60/master/graphics/renders/topRender.png]https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Gondolindrim/Doddle60/master/graphics/renders/topRender.png)
Purpose of this IC
Since I need to prototype the PCB and the MOQ of the PCB manufacturer is 5 units, some units would be left orphaned. The problem is I don't know 5 ISO users that can make proper use of this PCB. My idea is to send Jae one and keep one for me. So the idea is to gather 5-10 people that would be interested in funding the prototypes, and I'll send them assembled prototype PCBs. Each will cost around 30 USD plus shipping. I'm not making a profit of this whatsoever, I just need the prototyping money.
All I ask is that whoever gets and builds the PCB give me constructive feedback on ease to build, compatibility, and general ideas to make the PCB better.
What I need help with is I don't have an EU proxy to send the PCBs from, so I really need a volunteer to whom I can send a batch of PCBs and that person would redirect them to the funders. Of course all shipping expenses will be covered by each funder, and we can aggree to pay the volunteer for his or her time. Also of course the volunteer will be cited in the PCB acknowledgements page.
And of course, this IC can also be used for feedback on the ideas of this PCB, and the layouts and features supported.
FAQ
- Is there an ANSI plain-style PCB? Yes, two of them in fact. One is the ArcticPCB (named after another brazilian enthusiast ArcticFox), and the other is KeebsPCB (named after our brazilian mech streamer MrKeebs), which is hotswap.
- But... why? As the user of another endemic layout (the brazilian ABNT), I know how it is to not have your preferred choice supported. I have had some harsh feedback on PCBs, specially the Austin, where people went nuts because there was NE ISO avail. As it turns out I think ISO users don't get enough love, so here is my token of appreciation for our EU brothers and specially to Jae, who has helped me immensely through some of my difficult times in the community.
- How to reach you? See https://gondolindrim.github.io/AcheronDocs/overview.html#how-to-reach-gondolindrim (https://gondolindrim.github.io/AcheronDocs/overview.html#how-to-reach-gondolindrim). Preferably through Discord. Do not send Geehack or Reddit PMs as I don't linger on those platforms much anymore.
If you are considering backing the protos, below is the link for the form. Please read the warnings carefully and fulfill the fields. Suggestions are always appreciated. The form will be open for a week, and I will close it at 30/10 13:00 CEST.
https://forms.gle/9WzokwmEoJAaj6oF8
Updates
- 10/22/2019 There was a big number of requests for a split right shift. I will incorporate that suggestion shortly.
- 10/23/2019 Added IC form for participants to get in.
- 10/25/2019 Added split right shift compatibility and 2.25U left shift for US-ISO layout
- 11/11/2019 Published the pre-Release Alpha at https://github.com/Gondolindrim/Doddle60/releases/tag/preAlpha (https://github.com/Gondolindrim/Doddle60/releases/tag/preAlpha). I will stream the prototypes ordering and its components tomorrow 12/11/2019 at 6PM BRT / 9PM GMT.
- 11/20/2019 PCBs were ordered
- 12/03/2019 Components were ordered
- 12/29/2019 PCBs arrived in Brazil and are passing through fiscalization and customs
- 01/14/2020 Components arrived in Brazil and are passing through fiscalization and customs
- 01/14/2020 Both PCBs and components are still in customs. I have received some feedback from friends in the IRS that the shipment flux is unpredictably high this year and they will take longer than expected to deliver. I think I should have PCBs by mid february and components by start march.
- 01/29/2020 Due to the coronavirus spreading, brazilian customs is taking longer than expected and governmet is considering halting the shipments from China until Health Ministry decision. This happened because there were almost a dozen Coronavirus suspected cases in Brazil. Will keep you guys posted.
- 03/03/2020 PCBs arrived.
- 03/18/2020 Components arrived.
- 03/25/2020 First one was built. Firmware checks, works perfectly. Will assemble and QC the rest.
- 04/22/2020 All 15 PCBs built. Will ship to Jae soon; COVID-19 lockdown might be an issue.
- 04/28/2020 PCBs shipped to Jae.
- 05/04/2020 PCBs left Brazil and are en route to UK.
- 05/30/2020 Jae received the PCB, will test and ship them next week.
- 06/03/2020 PCBs were shipped!.
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Tue, 22 October 2019, 07:56:00
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Post by: dexie on Tue, 22 October 2019, 07:57:05
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Post by: audiosl4ve on Tue, 22 October 2019, 07:57:30
Post by: Puree on Tue, 22 October 2019, 08:05:35
#ISOResistance
Post by: Prelim on Tue, 22 October 2019, 08:12:06
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 22 October 2019, 08:12:46
Post by: LeandreN on Tue, 22 October 2019, 08:18:33
If you make it split right shift I’ll buy some!
Post by: Mcnos on Tue, 22 October 2019, 08:20:25
ISO only and supports only fullsize R-Shift?
That's brave
Post by: lolafineday on Tue, 22 October 2019, 08:42:30
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Post by: VXQN on Tue, 22 October 2019, 08:46:42
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 22 October 2019, 10:38:15
Any chance for the split right shift?
Yes! I will add that shortly.
I don't use 60% anymore but I might buy a few, just because.
ANSI sucks.
Looks nice. Price is :thumb:
It's not a "price" as much as it is a funding. I need to prototype the PCB to release it and I gather some people will want it, so I just need the money to prototype.
I'd be in for one if you split dat shift!
Awesome.
If you make it split right shift I’ll buy some!
Will do ASAP!
happy to see love for ISO ;) will help the GB is it happens
This is not a GB as much as a "kickstarter" because prototping is rather costly. Also I open-source and manage all PCBs for the community, so nothing more reasonable than offering it at manufacturing cost.
Glad to see this up Gondo - I’m happy to do EU distribution for the prototypes. I’ll even cover EU postage
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
You are one of the good ones Jae! Thanks for your support.
Oh damn,
ISO only and supports only fullsize R-Shift?
That's brave
Well I have no stakes or monetary interest in this, so why not ;)
Although i dont use ISO, this is great for Pepsi who do!
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
I prefer Coke honestly, but thanks for your cheers up :p
Post by: rpiguy9907 on Tue, 22 October 2019, 12:32:41
Post by: Adelscott on Tue, 22 October 2019, 13:28:00
Post by: Magnificent Bureaucrat on Tue, 22 October 2019, 16:26:15
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 23 October 2019, 05:28:31
I have literally no use for a pcb at the minute but I'd be tempted to pick one of these up just to support the concept :thumb:
Thank you for the support!
I'll have one please. Splitable shift or not.
I will submit a form to gather interest.
Post by: deLEES on Wed, 23 October 2019, 05:41:53
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 23 October 2019, 06:04:38
I tried to write and word it carefully, so please be sure to read it thoroughly.
Since I will build all protos, QC them and flash by hand, I'm capping at 10 units. If we get more participants, I suggest to limit it to a unit per participant and randomly raffling the spots.
The form will be open for a week, and I will close it at 30/10 13:00 CEST.
EDIT: forgot to add, but I will add split right shift to the protos.
Form:
https://forms.gle/9WzokwmEoJAaj6oF8
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 23 October 2019, 06:13:02
Lovely idea! Thank you. I'll be keeping an eye on this as I'll want to fund one of those protos.
I saw your entry. Thanks for the support!
Post by: deLEES on Wed, 23 October 2019, 07:24:53
Post by: funderburker on Wed, 23 October 2019, 07:38:45
On a side note - why you want to go through all he struggle if PCB fabs like JLCPCB now offer small quantity PCB assembly for fair prices? There's couple of rules you need to follow but it is waaay better to get them to assemble at least all of the diodes and SMT components and you soldering only the USB connector or smth.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 23 October 2019, 08:11:35
I must say that I would be interested in getting one and if it would add split RShift support then all the merrier. See you plan on doing that.
On a side note - why you want to go through all he struggle if PCB fabs like JLCPCB now offer small quantity PCB assembly for fair prices? There's couple of rules you need to follow but it is waaay better to get them to assemble at least all of the diodes and SMT components and you soldering only the USB connector or smth.
I did consider JLC, but the PCB has almost 10 of those components that are charged 3 dollars each for soldering ("extended" components I believe), so that is 30 dollars just because. Also they only do green PCBs and let's face it, that's lame haha
I can do 10-20 PCBs in a couple hours. It's not a big deal honestly. Also I don't like to order assembled prototypes as I can swap, change, remove or replace components for testing if I assemble them.
Post by: sendrim on Wed, 23 October 2019, 08:49:20
Post by: funderburker on Wed, 23 October 2019, 09:19:14
I must say that I would be interested in getting one and if it would add split RShift support then all the merrier. See you plan on doing that.
On a side note - why you want to go through all he struggle if PCB fabs like JLCPCB now offer small quantity PCB assembly for fair prices? There's couple of rules you need to follow but it is waaay better to get them to assemble at least all of the diodes and SMT components and you soldering only the USB connector or smth.
I did consider JLC, but the PCB has almost 10 of those components that are charged 3 dollars each for soldering ("extended" components I believe), so that is 30 dollars just because. Also they only do green PCBs and let's face it, that's lame haha
I can do 10-20 PCBs in a couple hours. It's not a big deal honestly. Also I don't like to order assembled prototypes as I can swap, change, remove or replace components for testing if I assemble them.
Totally understandable. Haven't ordered any PCBs for a while but heard about this new "feature" PCB fabs offer so I just wanted to put it out there. If you're comfortable with hand-soldering and it works the` good for you and others that would save some money. 10 PCBs is a small batch though and you'll definitely need to plan a second/third batch. :)
EDIT: Just noticed there's split left shift only. I get that you try and keep it ISO but my favourite layout for a 60% is a US-ISO with 2.25u left shift. :D
EDIT#2: Have you thought about offering plates for this as well? There's not a lot of fixed ISO plates so going with a universal plate always sucks.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 23 October 2019, 10:41:58
I must say that I would be interested in getting one and if it would add split RShift support then all the merrier. See you plan on doing that.
On a side note - why you want to go through all he struggle if PCB fabs like JLCPCB now offer small quantity PCB assembly for fair prices? There's couple of rules you need to follow but it is waaay better to get them to assemble at least all of the diodes and SMT components and you soldering only the USB connector or smth.
I did consider JLC, but the PCB has almost 10 of those components that are charged 3 dollars each for soldering ("extended" components I believe), so that is 30 dollars just because. Also they only do green PCBs and let's face it, that's lame haha
I can do 10-20 PCBs in a couple hours. It's not a big deal honestly. Also I don't like to order assembled prototypes as I can swap, change, remove or replace components for testing if I assemble them.
Totally understandable. Haven't ordered any PCBs for a while but heard about this new "feature" PCB fabs offer so I just wanted to put it out there. If you're comfortable with hand-soldering and it works the` good for you and others that would save some money. 10 PCBs is a small batch though and you'll definitely need to plan a second/third batch. :)
EDIT: Just noticed there's split left shift only. I get that you try and keep it ISO but my favourite layout for a 60% is a US-ISO with 2.25u left shift. :D
EDIT#2: Have you thought about offering plates for this as well? There's not a lot of fixed ISO plates so going with a universal plate always sucks.
If this PCB gets successful to the point that second or third batches happen, I'm sure there are vendors that would be more than happy to supply those batches; being an open-source project I'd be honored to have that happen. Also if that happens I reckon some PCBA fab will be used.
I will add 2.25 LShift compatibility, I think it's reasonable. But I'm stopping here, adding more layouts would defeat the plain purpose of the PCB.
Also I have not thought of plates; I still have to work on the plate cutouts. If I were to offer plates, I'd do FR4 that is cheap and can be ordered with the PCBs. For aluminum/brass, that would require laser cutting or machining, then again, something that maybe a vendor would be up to do but I can't due to single manpower.
The plate thing is exactly what I did with the SharkPCB; the PCB itself has its own repo (https://github.com/Gondolindrim/SharkPCB) and there is another SharkHardware repository (https://github.com/Gondolindrim/SharkHardware) where gerber files for plates can be downloaded and those plates can be order directly from, say, JLC. DXF and SVG files are also published for laser cutting. Steve, who is running the Shark GB, did use those files and ordered both aluminum and FR4 plates, so it's something easy to do but I can't because the logistics are very hard to do from Brazil.
Then again, if someone shows up to sell this stuff, I'd be thrilled.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 23 October 2019, 10:43:38
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/dfb069e34f7b14d63b03305a79dfc469
Then again, feedback is appreciated. I'd like to keep the PCB to these compatibilities only if possible.
Post by: funderburker on Wed, 23 October 2019, 11:19:51
Proposed layout changes:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/dfb069e34f7b14d63b03305a79dfc469
Then again, feedback is appreciated. I'd like to keep the PCB to these compatibilities only if possible.
This suits most ISO users with all of ISO variants. Looks good and pretty much gets the point across that it's a ISO PCB. Talking plates - FR4 bundle sounds fair as other materials means extra work as you mentioned.
Giving it more thought you can never know what type of board this would go for so if it's not a standard tray mount then offering a plate with the PCB is far-fetched. But possibly a tray mount plate would be enough for some people.
Sorry to make a mess with suggestions and ideas, it's your project and from here on out I'm 100% with whatever you come up with. US-ISO compatibility is great and can't wait to see this succeed tenfold!
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Wed, 23 October 2019, 11:20:14
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Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 23 October 2019, 21:42:15
I will be on the lookout for your COLEVRAK/AZERTY hybrid-only keycap group buy for sure!
ISO Colevrak azerty split ergo with 3U spacebar is my next PCB.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 23 October 2019, 21:49:43
Proposed layout changes:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/dfb069e34f7b14d63b03305a79dfc469
Then again, feedback is appreciated. I'd like to keep the PCB to these compatibilities only if possible.
This suits most ISO users with all of ISO variants. Looks good and pretty much gets the point across that it's a ISO PCB. Talking plates - FR4 bundle sounds fair as other materials means extra work as you mentioned.
Giving it more thought you can never know what type of board this would go for so if it's not a standard tray mount then offering a plate with the PCB is far-fetched. But possibly a tray mount plate would be enough for some people.
Sorry to make a mess with suggestions and ideas, it's your project and from here on out I'm 100% with whatever you come up with. US-ISO compatibility is great and can't wait to see this succeed tenfold!
It's a delight to have you and the people here input feedback, and I always try to incorporate that feedback because I only do this for the community. Not for money or recognition or whatever. Having you input your opinion is a golden opportunity for me to improve my designs, further making the available PCBs in the community better.
I'm just trying to equate my time and effort availability with this hobby, as I do work two jobs. Had I the time I'd do plates, PCB, case, firmware, the whole shenanigans.
So please let me know what you think.
If anyone who joins this proto round wants a CF plate fixed to this layout for a tray mount 60% I can provide one pretty cheap
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Ok so for this time I'll keep it to PCBs and I'll work on the FR4 plates for later. Thanks again Jae!
Post by: deLEES on Thu, 24 October 2019, 10:43:49
If anyone who joins this proto round wants a CF plate fixed to this layout for a tray mount 60% I can provide one pretty cheap
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Hi Jae, I'll take you up on that as well as the Iron165 CF plate if you do another run of it. :)
Post by: Gondolindrim on Fri, 25 October 2019, 07:10:09
Post by: funderburker on Fri, 25 October 2019, 07:23:36
Added new proposed layouts, refreshed KLE and renders.
Great, entered for one. :)
Post by: Gondolindrim on Fri, 25 October 2019, 07:31:14
Added new proposed layouts, refreshed KLE and renders.
Great, entered for one. :)
You are the tenth. I have never thought that this PCB would gather so much interest.
What a day. What a lovely day.
Post by: yui on Fri, 25 October 2019, 07:35:24
Thanks for the great work.
Post by: VXQN on Fri, 25 October 2019, 09:08:34
Post by: Gondolindrim on Fri, 25 October 2019, 22:25:22
will be in the market for a 60% iso pcb soon-ish, i was planing on going with an universal one but now that this exist, i might as well try my luck, and try to build a plate, i'll fill up the form later to be able to put my discord username, i do not remember the number.
Thanks for the great work.
Thanks for your support.
That's exactly why I'm doing this PCB. I think there are enough ISO users to justify a specific PCB; the fact that you were going for a universal shouldnt be a thing.
I've already entered but I'm very pleased to see the the new changes. Just enough flexibility whilst keeping the good ol' ISO enter in play.
Thanks! I will be sure to do my best.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 28 October 2019, 04:40:16
Post by: deLEES on Mon, 28 October 2019, 05:38:13
Guys, just a quick info: I will hold a stream in 30/10, at 4PM CEST to raffle the winners. Just remember that the form closes at 1PM that same day.
Sorry, I can't join the stream on the 30th - family comitments - but looking forward to the results [fingerscrossed] :)
Post by: yui on Tue, 29 October 2019, 02:59:28
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 29 October 2019, 04:06:52
I will not be able to join either as i am going to be at work (it translate to 3 PM in France), i have no doubt that you will be impartial (still i hope Jae is getting one by default, right?)
Jae is getting one by default yes, but he is paying for EU postage so I think it's reasonable, plus the time he's putting in.
What I'll do is: I'll assign a number to each participant and sort the numbers in a random number generator.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 30 October 2019, 08:36:17
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 30 October 2019, 09:23:20
1 yui
2 deLEES
3 Sendrim
4 dexie
5 ludd3
6 Puree
7 dmatx1
8 oew
9 Vogonpt
10 Adelscott
11 KrasH
12 RETRURNISO
13 Len
14 VXQN
15 funderburker
Here is how it goes. As I tried to explain in the stream, I will paypal invoice numbers 1-10, as those are guaranteed to receive their PCBs.
I won't order 10 PCBs, I will actually order 13 in order to have spares in case any of them are broken or I screw the soldering up. If all three spares work, then 11-13 will also be contacted and invoiced. If only two of the spares work, then 11 and 12 will be contacted and invoiced. And so on.
In case anyone gives up their spot I'll contact the next guy on the list.
Raffle stream video:
(sorry for the horrendous quality, I'm not at home ATM and used my laptop which camera and sound quality is... subpar).
UPDATE: I invoiced 1-10 for 35 dollars each. I will hold the invoices for two days; if anyone doesn't pay I'll remove that person from the raffle and contact the next guy. If the value is wrong please contact me.
Post by: dmatx1 on Wed, 30 October 2019, 09:48:51
Post by: RETURNISO on Wed, 30 October 2019, 10:09:03
edit. sorry for the typo in my username ;D
Post by: VXQN on Wed, 30 October 2019, 10:14:23
Quote
14th place
Why I oughtta!
Just kidding. Thanks for setting this up and showing the ISO love.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 30 October 2019, 10:26:59
Quote14th place
Why I oughtta!
Just kidding. Thanks for setting this up and showing the ISO love.
I feel bad for who didn't get it, I really do. For what it's worth I never imagined this PCB would get so much interest, I honestly though I'd have spare PCBs.
I'm honestly considering going after a vendor for these PCBs. I'll wait until the protos are confirmedly working.
Post by: yui on Wed, 30 October 2019, 12:16:56
Post by: Adelscott on Wed, 30 October 2019, 14:18:38
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 30 October 2019, 14:32:17
paid, but i still need to order better swiches, the gateron browns i have for my cheap mech will not do for that, how much time do i have to get them? any idea?
Counting from today, I reckon two to three months for arrival to you
Post by: Puree on Wed, 30 October 2019, 15:24:52
Post by: dexie on Thu, 31 October 2019, 01:12:26
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Thu, 31 October 2019, 03:15:49
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Post by: yui on Thu, 31 October 2019, 03:50:15
I’ll get a form up later today to see if anyone wants a CF plate. Should be about $30 each but will need 6 or so to want one
well you can count me in, i was originally planning on trying to hand build a plate out of scrap aluminum but CF should be better, and most likely better built.
Thanks for all the work you put in, finally getting some iso love in the community.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Thu, 31 October 2019, 05:32:33
https://linkto.run/p/TBHQ3KZM
Renders: https://imgur.com/a/73wcco4 (https://imgur.com/a/73wcco4)
(https://i.imgur.com/Df1Cw1J.pngJ)
(https://imgur.com/DjUvPQZ.png)
(https://imgur.com/WzKirOJ.png)
(https://imgur.com/jC0FQI9.png)
(https://imgur.com/8juHBPu.png)
(https://imgur.com/hL7M7uq.png)
Post by: deLEES on Thu, 31 October 2019, 05:55:04
And, yes please to the CF plate Jae. Can I get an IRON165 CF plate while you're at it ;)
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Thu, 31 October 2019, 06:34:17
Vote here for the color you want for the Doddle60:
https://linkto.run/p/TBHQ3KZM
Renders: https://imgur.com/a/73wcco4 (https://imgur.com/a/73wcco4)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Df1Cw1J.pngJ)Show Image(https://imgur.com/DjUvPQZ.png)Show Image(https://imgur.com/WzKirOJ.png)Show Image(https://imgur.com/jC0FQI9.png)Show Image(https://imgur.com/8juHBPu.png)Show Image(https://imgur.com/hL7M7uq.png)
Voted!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: dmatx1 on Thu, 31 October 2019, 07:41:39
I’ll get a form up later today to see if anyone wants a CF plate. Should be about $30 each but will need 6 or so to want one
Great, count me in too. I'd like to try out a CF plate long ago and a high quality one would be a perfect for the first time.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 04 November 2019, 18:43:55
I'm invoicing KrasH.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 04 November 2019, 19:17:16
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 04 November 2019, 19:50:12
Post by: funderburker on Tue, 05 November 2019, 01:20:48
Kinda sad didn't get in but I'd be down joining the CF plate! Would it be fixed ISO and support US-ISO? Couldn't find the CF plate sign-up form in this thread. Where is it Jae? :D
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Tue, 05 November 2019, 06:56:42
Congrats everyone!
Kinda sad didn't get in but I'd be down joining the CF plate! Would it be fixed ISO and support US-ISO? Couldn't find the CF plate sign-up form in this thread. Where is it Jae? :D
Yeah yeah :D
Here is the form folks:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1s2m_6tkk0Nc9p_2zzWamoU1LxXpbRTDvyYE1z8hQ-N0
I've also added a channel and Role to my Discord so I can provide updates eaiser and respond to queries - https://discord.gg/MGVQCVG
Those that joined the Doddle and were in my discord already have the role where I know who you are :D
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Tue, 05 November 2019, 07:08:06
Congrats everyone!
Kinda sad didn't get in but I'd be down joining the CF plate! Would it be fixed ISO and support US-ISO? Couldn't find the CF plate sign-up form in this thread. Where is it Jae? :D
plate will support these layouts - so yes US ISO included :D
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/470613805257326593/641262216540323880/doddle60KLE.png)
Post by: yui on Tue, 05 November 2019, 07:08:56
I personally do not mind waiting a bit more as i will not be using one without the other but i do not know the if keeping track of it all would be easy.
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Tue, 05 November 2019, 07:10:19
Just to know will the plate be shipped with the PCB for peoples who ordered both? or will the 1st one made will be shipped 1st?
I personally do not mind waiting a bit more as i will not be using one without the other but i do not know the if keeping track of it all would be easy.
So I'm going to proxy all the EU PCB's - I'll ship those together and cover the cost of shipping.
ROW orders will get their PCB sent from Gondo and their Plate from me, but I'll have to charge shipping for that at the time
Post by: ctrl on Tue, 05 November 2019, 07:42:18
The PCB looks great! ISO forevaaah! :thumb:
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Fri, 08 November 2019, 06:26:54
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1s2m_6tkk0Nc9p_2zzWamoU1LxXpbRTDvyYE1z8hQ-N0
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/641259777615331369/641385987716677653/unknown.png)
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Sat, 09 November 2019, 04:55:39
final 24 hour call for the matching CF plates - form closes at 12 noon on Saturday UK time:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1s2m_6tkk0Nc9p_2zzWamoU1LxXpbRTDvyYE1z8hQ-N0Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/641259777615331369/641385987716677653/unknown.png)
Now closed - thanks folks!!
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Wed, 13 November 2019, 15:40:51
Post by: Gondolindrim on Fri, 22 November 2019, 13:56:59
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Sat, 23 November 2019, 02:47:07
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 10 December 2019, 09:37:36
Apparently the PCB manu screwed up the PCBs and is re-doing them.
I shall take a look at the PCB files to see if this was on their end or mine, although I feel pretty confident PCB design is fine.
I told them to wait for my confirmation to restart the PCB process. I will keep you guys updated.
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Tue, 10 December 2019, 09:49:24
Update:
Apparently the PCB manu screwed up the PCBs and is re-doing them.
I shall take a look at the PCB files to see if this was on their end or mine, although I feel pretty confident PCB design is fine.
I told them to wait for my confirmation to restart the PCB process. I will keep you guys updated.
Thanks Gondo
Plates have arrived for those that ordered and I’ll have some extra for sale on my webstore soon (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191210/001f51af5b3b685cf80b0f810db81cc5.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 18 December 2019, 17:04:57
Happy holidays guys!
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sun, 29 December 2019, 15:48:11
PCBs arrived in Brazil and are currently passing through customs.
Components were not sent yet.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 14 January 2020, 09:05:11
Components arrived in Brazil and are passing through customs.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 21 January 2020, 14:04:27
Components and PCBs still at customs.
Due to CNY and holidays, some friends of mine said that the brazilian customs is taking longer than expected. The times are pretty random and I can't give a good estimate, but I don't reckon they will be delivered to me before middle february.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 28 January 2020, 11:52:53
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 29 January 2020, 11:53:24
I have heard from my friends in the IRS that customs clearance is taking specially long due to the coronavirus spreading. This is mostly important for packages coming from China. Also all chinese and shipping companies in China have pretty much stopped, specially the keyboard ones -- LCSC, PCBWay, JLC. You name it, they are completely halted.
I don't know how long this will delay the PCBs or the components. Rumors are that the government and "homeland security" office here are considering foreclosing all packages coming from China until second notice from the Health Ministry or National Security.
I will keep you guys posted. Sorry for this.
Post by: yui on Thu, 30 January 2020, 04:04:08
Post by: Gondolindrim on Thu, 30 January 2020, 20:20:19
well you could not see this coming, it is understandable and completely out of the control of one singular person. will just have to be patient, thanks for the heads up
Yeah, I think we can think that way. I just don't like underdelivering promises, that's all. In any case I'll keep you guys posted here.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Thu, 13 February 2020, 11:41:09
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 25 February 2020, 11:26:43
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 26 February 2020, 00:48:22
Post by: yui on Wed, 26 February 2020, 02:02:51
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 02 March 2020, 17:03:59
Unfortunately bad news guys.
Last friday I received this e-mail from PCBWay, saying that the PCBs were sent back to them.
(https://i.imgur.com/0xN9PHw.png)
Now, let me be clear here. The tracking, as it stands in Brazil Post website, states that it is in Brazil and passing through customs, just like I told you guys. Given, it has no updates for more than a month; however I made nothing of ti because that is pretty common here.
(https://i.imgur.com/0EpWKIF.png)
Now, they did offer to send the package back through many means:
(https://i.imgur.com/GK093Zw.png)
The problem with express shippings and couriers to Brazil are the obligatory import fees, which can easily be 100% or more than the net worth (package + shipping worth) of the package.
(https://i.imgur.com/e1hwxTA.png)
What follows is a negotiation between me and them to send the package back, and they agreed to send back via ePacket. The problem is that they wanted me to pay the new shipping, so I managed to convince them to pay for that so I won't loose that money. This back and forth took until today.
Now, I dread we have more time ahead of us. The PCB components are already here -- having arrived last week -- and waiting for the PCBs.
I'm sorry about this and I will keep you guys posted.
Post by: yui on Tue, 03 March 2020, 01:02:59
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 03 March 2020, 12:28:26
If it comes to this, i guess we could help with paying the extra shipping fees, i least i could, i don't know about the others.
I'm sure a couple bucks for everyone wouldn't hurt, but the problem really is the import taxes which can be higher than 100% of the product's value. I don't think you guys would want to pay two PCBs, one for me and another one to the government.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Fri, 06 March 2020, 11:52:33
PCBs were re-sent by PCBWay and are on their way. My sources say that this time around customs is not taking as much time as it was taking since the COVID-19 was cleared out and now we know it only lasts 5 days in inanimate objects. I will keep you guys posted.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 17 March 2020, 10:48:25
The PCBs were re-sent 10 days ago and were already cleared at customs. This is unprecedented, I have no idea what the hell happened, but we hit the jackpot here. I might have the PCBs by the end of this week, and I'll make a live stream assembling some of them. I'll keep you guys posted.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Fri, 20 March 2020, 11:46:18
Got the PCBs. Will build one this weekend and build the firmware. Once I get it working, I will build the rest; I will make further streams of the PCB assembly process, probably in the course of next week.
ITS HAPPENING GUYS
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 25 March 2020, 12:59:06
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 25 March 2020, 20:24:17
It is my pleasure to inform Doddle60 pre-revision Alpha works with flying colors. The first prototype was built today and the firmware was written.
The QMK and VIA supports are underway; please check this link (https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/pull/8558) for the QMK PR and this PR (https://github.com/the-via/keyboards/pull/69) for the VIA support. Both firmware were tested and work just dandy. See more pictures below.
If you guys wish to see the build stream, both parts are available at my Twitch channel and I will release them on Youtube too. See this link for the assembly (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/575214920) and this link (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/575324735) for the firmware.
The next steps now are building and QCing all the 15 PCBs. I actually ordered 20 of them, so it may be that some of the people that were not contemplated in the initial raffle might be getting theirs. Depends on if every one of them works. I will keep you guys informed.
For now, I'll leave you guys with some ISO PCB porn.
(https://imgur.com/NG7qbKc.png)
(https://imgur.com/evBokn0.png)
(https://imgur.com/A5mDmzE.png)
(https://imgur.com/xzgjcXs.png)
(https://imgur.com/e8xkxEj.png)
(https://imgur.com/Mun21na.png)
Post by: VXQN on Thu, 26 March 2020, 05:10:38
I'm still interested in one of the 5 extras if/when they become available. I recently came into posession of some lovely Vintage German ISO OG Doubleshots and don't have a PCB for them yet.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Thu, 26 March 2020, 08:17:32
PCB looks beautiful!
I'm still interested in one of the 5 extras if/when they become available. I recently came into posession of some lovely Vintage German ISO OG Doubleshots and don't have a PCB for them yet.
Off that is so nice!
If I can't make the other 5 PCBs work, Jae will stock Doddle60 at his store, so you are pretty much covered!
Post by: E-ant on Thu, 26 March 2020, 09:39:46
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Thu, 26 March 2020, 09:50:26
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Post by: consumer on Thu, 26 March 2020, 15:06:05
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: dmatx1 on Thu, 26 March 2020, 15:33:17
What’s your store address?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
prototypist.net (https://prototypist.net/)
Post by: yui on Mon, 30 March 2020, 03:25:46
PCB looks beautiful!
I'm still interested in one of the 5 extras if/when they become available. I recently came into posession of some lovely Vintage German ISO OG Doubleshots and don't have a PCB for them yet.
Off that is so nice!
If I can't make the other 5 PCBs work, Jae will stock Doddle60 at his store, so you are pretty much covered!
what could go wrong? legitimately i wonder because manufacturing technologies has gone very far and now most IC are pretty much insensible to heat and static and i guess the pcb being checked at the factory should not have defects?
i am also asking because i am planing on making a few projects that require custom pcb (not keyboards though)
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Mon, 30 March 2020, 03:31:31
PCB looks beautiful!
I'm still interested in one of the 5 extras if/when they become available. I recently came into posession of some lovely Vintage German ISO OG Doubleshots and don't have a PCB for them yet.
Off that is so nice!
If I can't make the other 5 PCBs work, Jae will stock Doddle60 at his store, so you are pretty much covered!
what could go wrong? legitimately i wonder because manufacturing technologies has gone very far and now most IC are pretty much insensible to heat and static and i guess the pcb being checked at the factory should not have defects?
i am also asking because i am planing on making a few projects that require custom pcb (not keyboards though)
It’s not usually the fabrication that’s the issue. Sometimes there can be an overlooked flaw in the design or a trace missing etc. But this is why we prototype :)
That being said there are sometimes DOA units from fabricators - but usually less than 1%
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: yui on Mon, 30 March 2020, 04:27:07
Post by: rinkaan on Mon, 30 March 2020, 06:52:22
kinda curious seeing the nice design :)
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 30 March 2020, 14:43:36
PCB looks beautiful!
I'm still interested in one of the 5 extras if/when they become available. I recently came into posession of some lovely Vintage German ISO OG Doubleshots and don't have a PCB for them yet.
Off that is so nice!
If I can't make the other 5 PCBs work, Jae will stock Doddle60 at his store, so you are pretty much covered!
what could go wrong? legitimately i wonder because manufacturing technologies has gone very far and now most IC are pretty much insensible to heat and static and i guess the pcb being checked at the factory should not have defects?
i am also asking because i am planing on making a few projects that require custom pcb (not keyboards though)
i was thinking for the 5 extra, i did not see why there would be a failure at this point, i see why prototyping is a good idea and having assembled a few pcb i did maybe ever killed one with my old non regulated soldering iron, so i guess that someone less amateurish than me should have even less trouble getting all working if the design is proven working?
Ok, so big wall of text incoming and I don't want to lecture anyone, I'm just explaining my thought process here and why I have so strict QC.
Fist of all, a design flaw is always possible. No serious engineer on Earth will expect a prototype to work first-time. The Doddle60 had two versions prior to this prototype -- I wouldn't be crazy to get money feom complete stragers in other half of the globe and send them a PCB if I didn't know this was working.
Supposing that the design is fine (which it is, I have assembled 6 PCBs so far and all work wonderfully), the production line is still filled with possibilities for failures. Bad plating, bad cuts, bad finishing, bad soldermask, scratched PCB, bad logos. All of these have happened to me using reputable and big PCB manufacturers.
In the fabrication side, I have come about inumerous PCBs that had a perfectly fine project but there were faulty traces or components that hindered functioning. It is not uncommon, specially with prototyping units. I did use PCBWay, which is a fab known for less failures than the competitors, but it can still happen. Had I used JLC, for instance, which is known for cheap PCBs for prototyping, the failure rate can double.
In the assembly side, we can talk for hours on what could go on. I can heat up the MCU too much (which is still pretty sensible to heat, no so much to static), I can lift up a critical pad on the connector, I can scratch a trace, I can scratch the soldermask off, I can make dents or scratches that make a PCB aesthetically not pleasing, I can make a wrong solder connection, short two signals and fry a component off. I consider myself a professional engineer yes, but I am not foolproof, I have to avoid the arrogance of the title, get some humility and accept I can screw things up. C'est la vie.
In a production line they use much more controlled and reproducible methods such as a reflow oven, which has a heat curve they apply to components and can make everything much more failure-proof, specially through automatization, but there still are chances. I invite you to talk to some vendor friends and ask them the percentage of PCBs that come with fabrication issues.
The factory does not check every single connection. Yes they have a flying probe, but get this. This PCB has 300 pads, making for a maximum of 300*(300-1)/2 = 44850 possible current paths which is simply unfeasible to test individually, so they test key traces and connections in hopes that, if those are fine, chances are all are fine. Mind you that given a number of n pads, the possible current paths are n*(n-1)/2, that is, grows quadractically such that the bigger the pad numbers, the higher the fabrication issues possibilities are.
Sometimes the PCB can simply come scratched, dented or C-stock that I'd not be comfortable selling anyone at full 35USD+ price. I have a name to hold and this is literally my first GB, I want to be transparent and QC strict as I can. My effort here is so that people can ask anyone in any Discord server about experiences with me and someone will say "yeah, I own a Doddle60 and gondo did a good job" instead of "I have a Doddle60 that came scratched and paid full price for it". That's what I gain here, reputation capital.
Through my 10+ years of messing around with electronics I can assure you that ~5% of the PCBs I assemble and test fail at QC, be it aesthetically, be it functionally, be it faulty components that I have to reflow or replace, be it because I screwed up. If I make a GB for 10 PCBs, I'm ordering 15. I didn't do that because I expect to sell all 15 -- on the contrary, it's because I can't expect the first 10 to all work.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 30 March 2020, 15:00:57
just a question, what are the relief cuts on the pcb for? does it enhance the typing experience?
kinda curious seeing the nice design :)
Yes! It adds to what we call "flex" and also has some impact on acoustics!
Post by: konstantin on Mon, 30 March 2020, 17:28:40
Ok, so big wall of text incoming and I don't want to lecture anyone, I'm just explaining my thought process here and why I have so strict QC.
[...]
Great write-up on the risks involved in prototyping and hardware engineering in general. I enjoyed reading through that and I learned a few new things. Thanks.
Post by: yui on Tue, 31 March 2020, 01:07:24
Post by: sendrim on Wed, 01 April 2020, 07:15:56
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sun, 12 April 2020, 02:09:12
Ok guys, I hope you are all taking care of yourselves and of your loved ones.
All 10 initial PCBs are assembled and working. I have contacted Jae and on monday I will try to send them.
There is, however, a possibility that I can't send them due to the coronvirius lockdown my state is in. From what I heard from post office friends, no receiving or sending international shipments are allowed at this time. I don't know when it will come back, as the lockdown was postponed twice here and there is no sign that the disease will give us a break, so I wager the lockdown will be postponed more. I will keep you guys informed.
As always, do not hesitate to send me messages over Discord for questions.
Post by: yui on Mon, 13 April 2020, 08:40:25
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 22 April 2020, 14:32:21
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 22 April 2020, 17:35:20
I will travel to another state where international shipping is being done regularly and I will ship the PCBs by monday/tuesday.
Everyone please send me your address at my email gondolindrim@acheronproject.com . DONT FORGET TO USE THE SUBJECT "Doddle 60 shipping address" so I can filter the messages.
I finished assembling all PCBs and alll 15 are up. From the 15, 10 are from you guys, 1 is going to Jae and one is going to MrKeebs. I will be talking to the other three lucky winners individually and, if they don't want the PCBs, the list goes on.
I have some warnings though:
- You guys might notice some specs of flux or cotton around, specially by the MCU and connector areas. That is completely normal and, albeit trying to clean them all with isopropyl and cotton, I might have missed a couple spots.;
- You guys might also notice some white powder on the PCB. Again, completely normal; that is due to the powder coming from the CNC machining of the PCB;
- PCBs will be shipped with VIA firmware so you can just pop them open, slap the cable and start using VIA. See this video for instructions: How to use VIA with your Doddle60 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrjwZcWL3zc) ;
- QMK is also supported. Then again, videos: Flashing on Windows/Mac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkn3hPGBock), Flashing on Linux / Command line (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcWkoy1MIQs)
- Each PCB was individually assembled, flashed and QC'd by yours truly. Every single switch of every single PCB was tested and confirmed working. So I can guarantee these bad boys are 100% up and running. Should you guys have trouble with a malfunctioning PCB, shoot me a Discord DM and I'll see what we can do;
- Everything you need to know is present at the Doddle60 documentation page in the official Acheron Project website (http://acheronproject.com/doddle60/intro.html).
- Enjoy :D
And the files needed (firmware binary and JSON for VIA) can be downloaded here (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1f_B9UIsTdVDdZim3nLAU-SvcBeqpLAIe?usp=sharing).
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 22 April 2020, 18:23:14
12 RETRURNISO
13 Len
14 VXQN
VXQN did not provide a Discord username, so I had to e-mail him. I will wait a week for the responses and, in negative case or no response, I'll go on the waiting list.
Post by: VXQN on Fri, 24 April 2020, 04:33:59
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sat, 02 May 2020, 08:01:54
Also not everyone sent me their addresses, so please send them to my e-mail!
EDIT: funder gave his spot up, so if anyone is interested we have two extra PCBs available.
Post by: E-ant on Sun, 03 May 2020, 09:01:37
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sun, 03 May 2020, 10:22:10
I'm up for one.
Nice :D
Please respond to me on gondolindrim@acheronproject.com, with the subject DODDLE60 SHIPPING EXTRA, your address and PayPal email
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 04 May 2020, 07:39:49
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 04 May 2020, 09:50:16
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 12 May 2020, 20:39:26
Nothing to report. PCBs are on their way to the UK.
Post by: ctrl on Mon, 18 May 2020, 04:34:15
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 18 May 2020, 06:48:04
Hey! I'm really interested in a Doddle60, but unfortunately missed out on the deadline. If there's been any cancellations, I'd be very interested in one!
All spots were filled, but they will be available from jaes prototypist.net store
Post by: Gondolindrim on Fri, 29 May 2020, 18:34:55
Still nothing to report, PCBs are still on their way to Jae.
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Sat, 30 May 2020, 07:53:04
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: deLEES on Fri, 05 June 2020, 04:21:22
Guys I am still missing the addresses from deLEEs, KrasH anddmaxt. If you guys sent them to me please do so again because I havent caught them
Hi Gondo. Sorry, not been looking at Geekhack for a while. I thought that Jae would be handling the shipping within the UK. He has my address already as I bought other things from him already. I hope this hasn't caused any issue. I can't wait to get this in a keeb :) Thanks.
Post by: VXQN on Fri, 05 June 2020, 04:23:11
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Fri, 05 June 2020, 05:52:01
Post by: VXQN on Fri, 05 June 2020, 07:52:12
Post by: Gondolindrim on Fri, 05 June 2020, 09:14:04
I've tried two different versions of VIA and neither detect the doddle60. Any ideas as to why?
You have to use the JSON file. Check one of my above comments where I put a link for it.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Fri, 05 June 2020, 09:15:02
Guys I am still missing the addresses from deLEEs, KrasH anddmaxt. If you guys sent them to me please do so again because I havent caught them
Hi Gondo. Sorry, not been looking at Geekhack for a while. I thought that Jae would be handling the shipping within the UK. He has my address already as I bought other things from him already. I hope this hasn't caused any issue. I can't wait to get this in a keeb :) Thanks.
He was able to ship from the address he had! No worries.
Post by: Adelscott on Fri, 05 June 2020, 09:23:43
Now I have to decide which switches are going on it !
Post by: Puree on Fri, 05 June 2020, 09:48:35
Guys I am still missing the addresses from deLEEs, KrasH anddmaxt. If you guys sent them to me please do so again because I havent caught them
Hi Gondo. Sorry, not been looking at Geekhack for a while. I thought that Jae would be handling the shipping within the UK. He has my address already as I bought other things from him already. I hope this hasn't caused any issue. I can't wait to get this in a keeb :) Thanks.
He was able to ship from the address he had! No worries.
Emailed'
Post by: deLEES on Fri, 05 June 2020, 10:18:28
Post by: VXQN on Fri, 05 June 2020, 10:57:12
I've tried two different versions of VIA and neither detect the doddle60. Any ideas as to why?
You have to use the JSON file. Check one of my above comments where I put a link for it.
Completely missed that message. All working fine now :)
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sun, 21 June 2020, 11:55:43