[IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case) - Group Buy Live!

[clasicks]

+1 for 6 degrees

I’m in the camp that really loves the current Realforce badge. Would there be any way to transplant from the original case, or source a replica Realforce badge??


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agreed... but if uhhh trademark issues arise there should be a custom / noxary / topre badge choice that is talked about

[duynguyenle]

I do feel like the "forehead" looks a little bit empty without the Realforce logo, perhaps someone with some graphics design experience could produce a vectorised version and get some metallic stickers made? (kinda like all the metallic HHKB stickers you can get from Taobao/Aliexpress)

I think that would complement the aesthetic design of the case and provide a nice visual point of emphasis on an otherwise quite plain top bezel.

[Wetherbee]

I do feel like the "forehead" looks a little bit empty without the Realforce logo, perhaps someone with some graphics design experience could produce a vectorised version and get some metallic stickers made? (kinda like all the metallic HHKB stickers you can get from Taobao/Aliexpress)

I think that would complement the aesthetic design of the case and provide a nice visual point of emphasis on an otherwise quite plain top bezel.

Stickers can be applied without a physical recess or relief.. like the HHKB used in your example. I find the big forehead rather charming and iconic. Hell, you could stick some metal Cherry stickers on there if Xondat is successful with the MX custom plate. Seen some photos of that done in jest on the old Digilogs.

As I learned with the Norbaforce IC though, people want options. I was totally against Winkeyless because I thought it would delay the project, but it ended up being an option that people loved.

I guess it would be up to Xondat to see how many top plate options he is able to accommodate. If each is a custom CNC run maybe it isn't a big deal to have several options - don't know how MOQ of multiple choices impacts group buy pricing. He already sounds committed to at least a regular top in addition to a Winkeyless option.

[afrokobe]

i use mine with feet.

[moh18one]

Cool!!! A ****ing case with the same shape that the original one!! Hype!!!


Flat is so comfortable to type one.

May I ask you somethings?

For OP: With the upcoming Realforce RGB TKL and Realforce R2 TKL that are going to be sold by Topre next year, can we expect a custom case for them as well? Although, the actuation point changer is quite useless for me, it a good addition to their keyboards and both models share the same case and bottom row (more standard layout), which is a big plus.

For those who own both Realforce RGB and a Topre with more conventional sliders, is it possible to swap them without the plastic housings or do they work only with these one. I don't want to use a keyboard with a plastic housing. Such a downgrade in my opinion...

Thanks

[Wetherbee]

For those who own both Realforce RGB and a Topre with more conventional sliders, is it possible to swap them without the plastic housings or do they work only with these one. I don't want to use a keyboard with a plastic housing. Such a downgrade in my opinion...

Realforce and Realforce RGB both use ABS plastic housings and sliders. RGB is a clear housing, regular is black. Shape of the slider is different to make room at the top of the housing for the LED.

Realforce RGB TKL has not been released but is scheduled for 2018. The mounting holes on the sides and in the ears on the corners are different to work with the new, square case, so adapters will be needed or a replacement plate to mount them in regular Realforce cases, assuming they keep the key dimensions the same.

[xondat]

With the upcoming Realforce RGB TKL and Realforce R2 TKL that are going to be selling by Topre next year, can we expect a custom case for them as well? Although, the actuation point changer is quite useless for me, it a good addition to their keyboards and both models share the same case and bottom row (more standard layout), which is a big plus.

For those who own both Realforce RGB and a Topre with more conventional sliders, is it possible to swap them without the plastic housings or do they work only with these one. I don't want to use a keyboard with a plastic housing. Such a downgrade in my opinion...

Maybe if there is a lot of demand, but not a lot will own them vs this which has been around for years.

You should be able to swap just the sliders (or pick up JTK Sliders or something).

[xondat]

There are a few things that need to be decided, so to save people posting every time I ask something, I'll just put all the "pending" things here:

• 6 degrees/flat, 9 degrees/raised, or in between?
• Recess for sticker/badge, something custom, or nothing?
• Brass weight?
• Dip switch cutout?

[afrokobe]

- 9 degrees raised
- nothing or something don't really matter; could do custom nameplate in brass if doing brass weight
- yes, absolutely
- sure

[Wetherbee]

There are a few things that need to be decided, so to save people posting every time I ask something, I'll just put all the "pending" things here:

• 6 degrees/flat, 9 degrees/raised, or in between?
• Recess for sticker/badge, something custom, or nothing?
• Brass weight?
• Dip switch cutout?

No idea on degrees.. I've never used the stock case, only ever used the Digilog which has a fixed height.

No for recess, or make it optional for those who must have it.

Brass plate will be enough weight. (Or even an aluminum one if you go in that direction). Realforce in aluminum is heavy AF already. Adding even more weight would just be for bragging rights over who has the heaviest non-portable small keyboard. I won't complain if it has a brass plate, though, as long as it is clean and not obnoxious with branding. Some of the brass plates coming out these days are ridiculously ugly - thankfully they are on the bottom.

No dip switch cutouts. How often are people changing their dip switches? You set it once and then never use it again. Sound could attenuate out of the hole like an instrument, no hole means more solid feel and sound (maybe not a real concern given that the whole bottom is closed in Noxary's design). What if the RGB TKL can be adapted to this case in the future with a custom plate or an adapter? If so, the dip switches probably won't be in the same place, leaving an empty hole at the bottom.

Just my humble opinion.

[avid]

6 degree.
no branding.
no weight.
no dip.

I think 6 degree is most important. How many are using the RF with feet up?

[Wetherbee]

6 degree.
no branding.
no weight.
no dip.

That's a much more succinct way to express my thoughts as well.

A case designed for 6 degrees can always be changed to support 9 degree with some feet (may look ugly but whatevs), but going the other way around is impossible without cutting off aluminum.

[jb1830]

I'm in for this.
Definitely 6 degrees. Small brass piece with your logo in the factory location would be sweet. No big weight. No dip cutout, that's a set it and forget it type thing.

[moh18one]

1. 6 degrees

2. Why not?

3. Neutral

4. Dip switches aren't important especially if the board is fully programmable (in the future)

[nurupism]

1. 6 degrees
2. No opinion on branding
3. Yes for weight
4. Either is fine for dip switch

[avid]

For everyone voting for weight, keep in mind its +50 in price.

[pixelpusher]

6 degree.
no branding.
no weight.
no dip.

I think 6 degree is most important. How many are using the RF with feet up?

I prefer to have the feet out on mine, raising the keyboard to 9 degrees.  The bottom row profile feels wrong at 6 degrees to me

[duynguyenle]

1. 6 deg
2. Small recess at the same location and size as the OG RF logo
3. I'm indifferent about weight
4. No dip switches

[poolside]

1. 6° and 9° are both fine
2. larger bottom bezel to balance out the large empty forehead area?
3. I need the weight. Plain bottoms look so empty
4. No DIP cutout? Some TKL Realforces don't have any DIP switches

Is the OG Realforce logo badge just a sticker or something stiffer?

[nmur]

There are a few things that need to be decided, so to save people posting every time I ask something, I'll just put all the "pending" things here:

• 6 degrees/flat, 9 degrees/raised, or in between?
• Recess for sticker/badge, something custom, or nothing?
• Brass weight?
• Dip switch cutout?

preference for 9 deg
indifferent for the rest

[pr0ximity]

I think a 7.5 deg would be pretty slick
Noxary engraved logo in place of the badge would be best imo
I'd prefer an option for no weight/alu weight, but I'd be cool with an empty cutout where a weight would be
Indifferent on dip switches

[vegs]

• 6 deg
• Nothing, no strong opinion
• Yes!
• No need (I will be getting the nordic version anyways which doesn't have dip switches)

[afrokobe]

For everyone voting for weight, keep in mind its +50 in price.

bring it on, I'm game

[braidn]

No feet flappers engaged. Totally flat. Love it at that angle.

[mason]

FLAT

[xondat]

So far:

• There are more for 6 degrees (more than triple), so I can see it going that way. I personally use raised, so I might figure out a solution that isn't ugly.
• Still not sure on the branding. I think it's nice, but not sure if it's needed.
• Brass is even so far, so keep the thoughts coming in. I'm still not sure on this so all opinions are valued
• Pretty clear where people stand with the dip switch cutout, everyone is either no or indifferent. There will be no cutout.

Another thing I've mostly decided on is the connector; I'd like to use USB C. It makes sense to move to as it's just the better connector, but not many have USB C cables (however I don't think this should be a main argument in not moving to adoption).

Any strong feelings on either side? LMK.

[Wetherbee]

I made a commitment this year to not buy any electronics in 2018 unless it had USB C. New years resolution. The custom cable makers will eventually catch on once we reach critical mass and regular USB C cables are plentiful, affordable, and no longer have early adopter issues with missing resistors.

[afrokobe]

i like usb-c but its not a deal breaker for me

[norbauer]

This project is awesome! 2018 is the year we Topre nerds take over the keyboard world! <3

[pvd]

If the case and programmable controller support a 91u JIS realforce, I would be very interested 

[xondat]

Sending my RF in a day or two so that the breakout board can start development

Main goal is programmable, with the secondaries being a bit more advanced (genuinely don't know if they're possible, but aim high). The two musts are USB-C and being a "bolt on" mod (aka only having to plug it in, no modification of anything original needed, and can be reverted).

Still not sure on the weight or branding. Weight will most likely be a price thing, so got to figure that out later on.

[le_wraith]

There are a few things that need to be decided, so to save people posting every time I ask something, I'll just put all the "pending" things here:

• 6 degrees/flat, 9 degrees/raised, or in between?

IN BETWEEN

• Recess for sticker/badge, something custom, or nothing?

I'D LOVE THE OPTION OF A BADGE WITH "NOXARY-RF" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AS LONG AS IT'S MINIMALISTIC AND LOOKS DOPE . WHEN IT COMES TO A REALFORCE, I WANT IT TO LOOK EVIL AND MYSTERIOUS IN A SOMEWHAT LO-FI WAY, SO THE BADGE HAS TO WORK WITHIN THAT AESTHETIC

• Brass weight?

YES!!! I SEE THIS AS CRITICAL. HEAVIER & BRASSIER = BETTER

• Dip switch cutout?

NO.

[/list]

[xondat]

Hey, got a question for everyone -

I have concerns with long prototyping turnaround with my current manufacturer, it'd delay this for a month upwards. The reason I would prototype is so I know everything physically works. We already know the quality with the manufacturer is very good, so that isn't a thing that I'd be testing.

My current thoughts are to either look locally for a CNC aluminum prototype, or to look into 3D printing. Not sure whether I'd anodize the aluminum prototype, as it would take time for no physical change. Only downside is that people are usually judging whether to join a buy because of what the finished product looks like, and I won't be able to show that. Let me know your thoughts please.

In short: alternative prototyping to save time, prototype may be "uglier", but no massive waiting periods. Thoughts?

[pixelpusher]

Hey, got a question for everyone -

I have concerns with long prototyping turnaround with my current manufacturer, it'd delay this for a month upwards. The reason I would prototype is so I know everything physically works. We already know the quality with the manufacturer is very good, so that isn't a thing that I'd be testing.

My current thoughts are to either look locally for a CNC aluminum prototype, or to look into 3D printing. Not sure whether I'd anodize the aluminum prototype, as it would take time for no physical change. Only downside is that people are usually judging whether to join a buy because of what the finished product looks like, and I won't be able to show that. Let me know your thoughts please.

In short: alternative prototyping to save time, prototype may be "uglier", but no massive waiting periods. Thoughts?

I'm fine with raw aluminum for prototype.  LZ boards have run this way, no?  Just show the raw cnc case and show images of the finish from the x60 stating they will be done by the same factory. 

[dgneo]

Hey, got a question for everyone -

I have concerns with long prototyping turnaround with my current manufacturer, it'd delay this for a month upwards. The reason I would prototype is so I know everything physically works. We already know the quality with the manufacturer is very good, so that isn't a thing that I'd be testing.

My current thoughts are to either look locally for a CNC aluminum prototype, or to look into 3D printing. Not sure whether I'd anodize the aluminum prototype, as it would take time for no physical change. Only downside is that people are usually judging whether to join a buy because of what the finished product looks like, and I won't be able to show that. Let me know your thoughts please.

In short: alternative prototyping to save time, prototype may be "uglier", but no massive waiting periods. Thoughts?

Personally think it's a good idea, seeing as it's just a prototype

[avid]

Raw prototype is good.

[dreamx420]

+1 for raw prototype


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[le_wraith]

Hey, got a question for everyone -

I have concerns with long prototyping turnaround with my current manufacturer, it'd delay this for a month upwards. The reason I would prototype is so I know everything physically works. We already know the quality with the manufacturer is very good, so that isn't a thing that I'd be testing.

My current thoughts are to either look locally for a CNC aluminum prototype, or to look into 3D printing. Not sure whether I'd anodize the aluminum prototype, as it would take time for no physical change. Only downside is that people are usually judging whether to join a buy because of what the finished product looks like, and I won't be able to show that. Let me know your thoughts please.

In short: alternative prototyping to save time, prototype may be "uglier", but no massive waiting periods. Thoughts?

I agree with the idea of alternative (raw or 3d printed) prototyping. How much faster is 3D printing than a raw aluminum prototype? If 3d printing is significantly faster it might be the way to go (albeit the downside is that people will have less of an idea of what the finished product might look like than if you did the aluminum prototype).

[Puddsy]

Hey, got a question for everyone -

I have concerns with long prototyping turnaround with my current manufacturer, it'd delay this for a month upwards. The reason I would prototype is so I know everything physically works. We already know the quality with the manufacturer is very good, so that isn't a thing that I'd be testing.

My current thoughts are to either look locally for a CNC aluminum prototype, or to look into 3D printing. Not sure whether I'd anodize the aluminum prototype, as it would take time for no physical change. Only downside is that people are usually judging whether to join a buy because of what the finished product looks like, and I won't be able to show that. Let me know your thoughts please.

In short: alternative prototyping to save time, prototype may be "uglier", but no massive waiting periods. Thoughts?

I'm fine with raw aluminum for prototype.  LZ boards have run this way, no?  Just show the raw cnc case and show images of the finish from the x60 stating they will be done by the same factory.

it's a new factory (i hope)

koreans usually do raw prototypes cause they've had the same shops for ages

a lot of early boards were prototyped in wood, not aluminum

[xondat]

Same factory as 268, Klippe, Fjell etc. This is not the same factory as X60.

@le_wraith, I haven't looked into 3D printing personally, but I know of people that've had same week order to delivery.

I just spoke to Leandren, and it's realistic to get samples made in 3 weeks. 268 took longer because of a mistake they made (I must've missed this info earlier on which has lead to my above question).

Thanks for the feedback all, every comment is valuable at this stage If you have anything you want to say about the design, or breakout PCB etc, please do so.

Tiny update on the angle of the board, I've been using 6 degrees/flat for the past couple of days and I think I'm used to it, so the XRF will 95% be stock 6 degrees. I'm still interested in pursuing something to raise it for 9 degrees, but it has to be done perfectly otherwise it won't make it to production. I've yet to think of a decent way to do it, so if you really want 9 deg, and you think you have an elegant solution, let me know!

[avid]

design:
-do not like the "realforce" logo cutout. Would much prefer a clean front.
-have you considered making the side edges thicker? 

Rest looks really good 

[Puddsy]

design:
-do not like the "realforce" logo cutout. Would much prefer a clean front.
-have you considered making the side edges thicker?

no more huge bezels pls thanks

[xondat]

design:
-do not like the "realforce" logo cutout. Would much prefer a clean front.
-have you considered making the side edges thicker? 

Rest looks really good 

Cutout - fair. If I can afford two tops, I will get one with, and one without.
Side edges - why? I'm aiming for minimum change from the stock case, whilst keeping my aesthetic.

[Air tree]

I'm really into this board because it stays true to the original case, I Really like the cutout idea as well, it adds something to an otherwise empty forehead. 

[xondat]

Minor update.

Spent the past 5 hours redoing most of the fundamentals, this'll be close to what the sample looks like. Still got a couple things to do though. I hope to have one in time for the UK meetup





Nothing really looks different (as with all my things when I start again) so I'll explain a little.

• I updated the mockup plate to a normal 86u layout so I don't confuse anyone again.
• Removed name tag for now, not sure whether I want it there or not.
• Finally placed USB position, it's now in the standard horizontal position as A.87.
• Added place for the breakout PCB too.
• Mounting now just makes more sense, was a little weird before.
• Actually added screws to hold the case together.
• Kept it 6 degrees.
• Increase chamfer + rounded edge sizing to make it look a little smaller & neater.
• Kept it low, think it's a 16mm front face.
• Lots of other minor things that aren't worth going into

Next "goal" is to finish the USB cutout, just need to get a cable from my girlfriend before doing that. Fitment must be perfect )

Now for some potentially bad news.

I won't be going forward with the brass weight. I want to keep it simple in order to keep the price down. I don't think the case needs to be $300+ considering the cost of the internals anyway. Still toying with the idea that Duck uses (having a cutout but no weight), but I'd make the brass optional. Not sure.

The worst news is that I'm not sure when I can run the group buy. I was going to get it going relatively soon, but as I've unexpectedly started X60 R, I cannot have more than 2 GBs open at once (a rule enforced by the mods for decent reasons). So either I run this off GH, or wait a couple months (or longer, depending on when I complete 268).

On that topic, someone has asked if they could pay for an extra prototype for them to have, which I'm completely fine with, so if that's something that's interesting, then you know what to do.

Sorry for the ramble, but that's everything I have to update on!

[megaforce]

Don't listen to the normies about not having a brass weight all the way through -- do it -- stay true to the Noxary line. Have a brass weight all the way through.

[le_wraith]

+1 brass weight / normie hate

[MMKB]

Without a chamfered edge at the bottom or a strap you will never be able to pick it up. 

[xondat]

Sent off the files for the first prototype last night. I'm hoping it'll be possible to get it before I go to the UK meetup later next month (on the 24th).

This will hopefully be the 1st of the 2 prototypes I plan to do. This one is mainly getting the fundamentals down (plate fitment, bezel fitment, general PCB component clearance, etc). The 2nd prototype will focus on refining everything (such as typing feel, breakout board fitment, USB hole, etc).

Hopefully there will be pictures very soon )

[pixelpusher]

Sent off the files for the first prototype last night. I'm hoping it'll be possible to get it before I go to the UK meetup later next month (on the 24th).

This will hopefully be the 1st of the 2 prototypes I plan to do. This one is mainly getting the fundamentals down (plate fitment, bezel fitment, general PCB component clearance, etc). The 2nd prototype will focus on refining everything (such as typing feel, breakout board fitment, USB hole, etc).

Hopefully there will be pictures very soon )

Thanks for the update.  I've been dome swapping my 87u over the past few weeks.  Started with light BKE redux, then ultralight.  Probably putting stock 55g domes back in tomorrow.  They're just so elegant.  Looking forward to the prototype!