Windows 8, your thoughts?

[microsoft windows]

Who needs Windows 8 when Windows 3.1 already has a version for tablets? And Windows 3.1 doesn't have a start menu either.




I'd take Windows 3.1 any day.

[Internetlad]

Who needs Windows 8 when Windows 3.1 already has a version for tablets?

incoming lawsuit from apple.

[tjcaustin]

Who needs Windows 8 when Windows 3.1 already has a version for tablets?

incoming lawsuit from apple.

It does say samsung on it, so they have a chance of winning.

[Internetlad]

It does say samsung on it, so they have a chance of winning.

[DEAD_BEEF]

Other than not being able to disable the fancy new UI, I like it. The longer I use it the more I hate the metro UI though. I just can't understand why, if there isn't a touch interface detected, it isn't disabled with an option of turning it on if you suck. Then Microsoft could analyze their telemetry data and see how many people turn it on! Also the UI hardly adds anything that couldn't have been accomplished by having the live tiles on the desktop. You can shutdown from the desktop with Alt+F4 but you really do need to be 'on' the desktop not in an application on the desktop.

[daerid]

After learning all the [Win+...] shortcuts, Windows 8 is just awesome. As an OS, it's damn near perfect. The only thing I wish it had was bash as the default command line shell, not that dumb ass underpowered cmd.exe bull****.

[codymaust]

After learning all the [Win+...] shortcuts, Windows 8 is just awesome. As an OS, it's damn near perfect. The only thing I wish it had was bash as the default command line shell, not that dumb ass underpowered cmd.exe bull****.

PowerShell is pretty awesome.. I'm still a complete PS noob, but it's miles ahead of CMD.exe simply because it has common Unix commands aliased to CMD.exe commands ( 'ls' = 'dir' ). You can also run a cmd shell within PS if needed.

And after spending a month or so with Windows 8, I love it.

[baldgye]

Also, alt+F4 to close the program.

in the beta i was using that to bring up the shutdown popup too

[Krogenar]

It feels like Win7 (which is great) with a bit more stability and a touchscreen enabled frontend that doesn't really work for me. This whole tablet thing feels like an attempt to make computers accessible to people with zero (or less than zero) command line experience. And that's fine. I'm a computer geek and like getting under the hood. They should have some way of disabling that feature entirely. Also, I don't want to send user feedback to Microsoft to 'make things better' and during my install of Win8 I had to say 'No' to that option quite a few times. But at least they notified me.

Overall, I like it. It's not Vista.

[Internetlad]

in the beta i was using that to bring up the shutdown popup too

Does that not work anymore? because that's a great idea.

[baldgye]

in the beta i was using that to bring up the shutdown popup too

Does that not work anymore? because that's a great idea.

no idea, I use my pc and so use win7 lulz

[nullstring]

Other than not being able to disable the fancy new UI, I like it. The longer I use it the more I hate the metro UI though. I just can't understand why, if there isn't a touch interface detected, it isn't disabled with an option of turning it on if you suck. Then Microsoft could analyze their telemetry data and see how many people turn it on! Also the UI hardly adds anything that couldn't have been accomplished by having the live tiles on the desktop. You can shutdown from the desktop with Alt+F4 but you really do need to be 'on' the desktop not in an application on the desktop.

Pretty sure you can disable the Metro UI
https://www.google.com/search?q=disable+metro+windows+8&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[sammsorensen]

I seemed to have been noticing a pattern with Windows operating systems: they'll release a ****ty OS, then they'll release a decent one... and it repeats.

The primary example of this beginning with Windows ME (****) then Windows XP (good) then Windows Vista (****) and finally Windows 7 (good).

So, my prediction for Windows 8:

****!!!

People don't like change.. Windows 8 is different and I personally don't like it as much as win 7, but it is definitely not on the level of Vista or ME.

[daerid]

The first change in any long standing product is bound to cause much gnashing of teeth. The 2nd revision comes out just when people are so used to bashing the 1st one that it seems like the best thing ever. That's how it will always be. Not just with Windows.

[precarious]

"What does Windows 7 not do that I wish it did?  What's wrong with Windows 7?"

My answer to this is "nothing," and so, I see no reason to use Windows 8, lest I should wish to torture myself with endless ponderings of "why the hell did they change this and now I can't change it to something which is rationally defensible?"

Not all change is good.

[davkol]

I have two issues with Microsoft Windows in general.

They changed a lot of things in GUI with the release of Vista, and now they've done it again. This is an issue for corporate and incompetent users. They need a conservative, stable environment, and honestly, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I've heard even Microsoft accept this fact, and the start menu should return with the first service pack. There was a sh1tstorm going on because of similar changes in the GNU/Linux lands, when KDE4 and GNOME 3 were announced & released. However, you could still use something conservative, such as GNOME 2, which hasn't been updated for two years now (actually, it had seen only rather minor incremental changes since at least 2006), and it will be maintained at least for another year or two as MATE. You can't do this on MS Windows.

Situation isn't perfect for power users either. The UI and configuration is just ridiculous. I've had to work with a Windows server, and it was a nightmare, mostly due to terrible documentation, user-unfriendly GUI, and black magic in registers. Not saying that situation on unix-like systems is perfect, but at least it's not insane.

I have to admit I'm lucky enough I don't work with servers on daily basis... Unfortunately, even stuff like window management in Windows sucks. I've developed my own efficient workflow to get things done, but there's no way to get it working in MS Windows without tons of tweaking. All I want is real tiling, both desktops and tags/activities, keyboard shortcuts for _everything_, and some compositing effects (I can live without wobbly windows, something expose-like is just enough for me).

The second thing I hate about MS Windows, and especially Win8, is copying Apple-like approach. EULA has always been ridiculous, but *centralized* app store? Misusing Secure Boot (read something about keys on Surface; say goodbye to *general purpose* computers)? Dear Microsoft, GTFO.

[volund]

I've been using Win 8 since release on my desktop, mainly due to the fact that I have to support everyone and their grandma buying new Windows 8 units at work.

Likes-
Significantly improved load times
improved task manager
improved multi manager supprt
common interface across multiple platforms
win 7 under the hood

Dislikes-
Non-intuitive for most people (I found it simple, but supporting it is another story)
lack of basic customization aspects (changing tile colors)
idiotic issues with time synchronization and MS account passwords
lousy OEM driver support causing update loops (I'm looking at you HP)

[FabsSpeed]

I use Windows 9 for 3 month and really like it! Fast and stable!

[chewyfruitloop]

this is about all i can say about it

[rowdy]

^ LOL although ifit really was that bad no-one would be using it.

[davkol]

^ LOL although ifit really was that bad no-one would be using it.

People are using _Facebook_... its user interface is the least intuitive and user-friendly I have ever seen. It's a nightmare, but surprisingly enough, people are still using it.

[fohat.digs]

I am surprised at the constant reference to the concept of "intuitive" and how many programs are designed on a scenario of use by persons who have no computer experience.

At this late date of 2013, are there really that many people (over the age of 3 and under the age of 80) in the ("civilized") world who have never yet used a computer?

I would argue that, today, the concept of "intuitive" means similar in look and feel to the Microsoft/Windows 3/95/98/XP/7/etc desktop appearance trajectory.

For people who have expected to find some sort of "start" button in the lower left of the screen, since Bill Clinton was president, opening programs in any other way is decidedly "counter-intuitive" in my opinion.

After decades of conditioning, you can't really fundamentally change the rules of the game and expect people to be happy.

[daerid]

Hate to say it, but eventually the older generation will die out, and the vast majority of people on this planet (at least in the civilized areas) will be computer-literate. The whole concept of what we consider "intuitive" will change, as so much more will be taken for granted.

[davkol]

Hate to say it, but eventually the older generation will die out, and the vast majority of people on this planet (at least in the civilized areas) will be computer-literate. The whole concept of what we consider "intuitive" will change, as so much more will be taken for granted.

That's pretty naive. I definitely cannot call most young people in a developed country computer-literate as long as it includes

• ability to solve problems (at least read error messages and act accordingly) and learn from them,
• efficient use of apps/UI (e.g. use styles in a text processor),
• basic knowledge of security in computer systems, networks etc.

It's sad, but I can see it almost every day in real life, unfortunately.

[chewyfruitloop]

Hate to say it, but eventually the older generation will die out, and the vast majority of people on this planet (at least in the civilized areas) will be computer-literate. The whole concept of what we consider "intuitive" will change, as so much more will be taken for granted.

I'm actually quite worried about the future of stuff like operating systems based on what I've seen from the people graduating 10 years behind me.
When I graduated I had done low level OS design and assembler etc as part of my degree.  One of the guys who I worked with last year, didn't even know how to do memory allocation, or know what a memory leak was, he'd only ever written code in Java.

So computer literate he may have been, actually useful when it comes to making something like windows...not so much
Lots on CS courses just teach .net or java now because you have auto memory management etc, but they're dogs really.

Think the same really applies to UI design.
Win 8 may be ok on an MS fondle slab, but desktop machine...
think the only way it would be any good would be on a 30 inch screen set up like a draftsman's table

[sugosugita]

^ LOL although ifit really was that bad no-one would be using it.

People are using _Facebook_... its user interface is the least intuitive and user-friendly I have ever seen. It's a nightmare, but surprisingly enough, people are still using it.

Amen brother. Facebook is ludicrously ill-designed. Little frames everywhere? is this 1998?

[deepthawt]

At first I resisted windows 8.
Then I figured it would be inevitable that someone at work would have it and I would be asked to help, so I loaded it up.

Ok, I reasoned, they added something useless (metro UI) to monetize apps, and discarded something useful (start menu) to force people to use the metro, but the core OS is still good.  They added some nifty things like the copy files dialog and ... not much else that comes to mind

The more I use it, the less I like it.  Things are scattered about in non obvious places.

It seems that when windows functionalities are first added they are grouped in meaningful places with similar functionalites, then the human-use and ergo-specialists get involved and they become abstracted in conceptual models that are more related to doing something that I don't do, instead of grouping things by what they do.  The entire UI seems abstracted away from what I need.

And to make things worse Microsoft feels it is their prerogative to decree the new UI paradigm as exclusive.

It continues to annoy and rub me the wrong way.

and that's my opinion.

[Lorem-Ipsum]

Well I've now been using it for some time. I'm a linux user generally but I need a windows OS somewhere for my Uni work. I quite like window 8 TBH. It needs a LOT more polishing and I think the metro interface needs work but the OS itself seems a lot better. They seem to have removed a lot of the windows xp junk and so it runs a lot more smoothly, there are less processes to keep track of and the experience feels cleaner.

The UI change is an obvious drawback but if you make the best of it instead of fighting it, it can actually be quite nice to use.

[nraymond]

My problem with Windows 8: it is built on Win32.  Still.  This is sad, for many reasons.  More info:

http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/10/windows-8-and-winrt-everything-old-is-new-again/

[volatilecoffee]

It is 8x better then 7 (pun intended)
It takes less space, runs better, boots faster, a lot of people say it has horrible compatibility but I find it is MORE compatible with older games
I love it and would pay for it over and over
The only argument anyone has is OOOOHH MADE FOR TOUCH SCREEN BUTT=HURT fine, disable it -_(\ You can even get the start bar back if you are not a complete idiot

[precarious]

It is 8x better then 7 (pun intended)

is slime a horse morphing dragon zord pun intended

[fohat.digs]

My problem with Windows 8: it is built on Win32.  Still.  This is sad, for many reasons.  More info:

http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/10/windows-8-and-winrt-everything-old-is-new-again/

*      *      *      *      *      *

Much of this is way over my head, but it was a very enlightening and disheartening read.

I would love to get away from Windows and its bloatware, but after a 3-year flirtation with Ubuntu, I am going to give it up and join the 90% full-time again.

Windows 7 has been pretty good to me so far.

[daerid]

That's pretty naive. I definitely cannot call most young people in a developed country computer-literate as long as it includes

• ability to solve problems (at least read error messages and act accordingly) and learn from them,
• efficient use of apps/UI (e.g. use styles in a text processor),
• basic knowledge of security in computer systems, networks etc.

It's sad, but I can see it almost every day in real life, unfortunately.

I wouldn't include those in "computer-literate". As a software developer, I'm constantly amazed at how many people, including software developers with decades of experience, just absolutely will not read what's in front of them.

But really, that's my entire point. What we currently consider intuitive just doesn't apply, and will continue to change.

I'm actually quite worried about the future of stuff like operating systems based on what I've seen from the people graduating 10 years behind me.
When I graduated I had done low level OS design and assembler etc as part of my degree.  One of the guys who I worked with last year, didn't even know how to do memory allocation, or know what a memory leak was, he'd only ever written code in Java.

So computer literate he may have been, actually useful when it comes to making something like windows...not so much
Lots on CS courses just teach .net or java now because you have auto memory management etc, but they're dogs really.

This is the truth.. although, can't say I'm that mad at it. Just means my salary is going to go up year after year

[davkol]

That's pretty naive. I definitely cannot call most young people in a developed country computer-literate as long as it includes

• ability to solve problems (at least read error messages and act accordingly) and learn from them,
• efficient use of apps/UI (e.g. use styles in a text processor),
• basic knowledge of security in computer systems, networks etc.

It's sad, but I can see it almost every day in real life, unfortunately.

I wouldn't include those in "computer-literate". As a software developer, I'm constantly amazed at how many people, including software developers with decades of experience, just absolutely will not read what's in front of them.

But really, that's my entire point. What we currently consider intuitive just doesn't apply, and will continue to change.

Your changing requirements so that more people will pass awkwardly reminds me of the ongoing education crisis. Almost everybody has a diploma, but remains uneducated.

[linkz]

Not liking it. They're trying to implement many things that are better suited for a touch screen device.

[4LI4Z]

Windows 8 just feels wrong. One reason more to change to the linux way of life. A PC is meant to be used with our loved keyboards and a mouse, not by using it with a touchscreen like a tablet or a smartphone.

[daerid]

Your changing requirements so that more people will pass awkwardly reminds me of the ongoing education crisis. Almost everybody has a diploma, but remains uneducated.

I said "computer-literate", but without clarification of the particulars of what that meant. When you laid out some details, I disagreed with those. I wasn't changing anything so much as specifying. If we disagree on what "computer-literate" means, then so be it.

Maybe we need a new term. Maybe more "internet-literate" rather than "computer-literate". I meant more like these kids who can use the hardware to visit Facebook, play video games, and browse the internet in general without having a clue as to the more technical details of software/hardware, and who just get completely and utterly stumped when a message box shows up, and they go into "get rid of the message box" mode and don't bother reading it.

[Malphas]

Windows 8 just feels wrong. One reason more to change to the linux way of life. A PC is meant to be used with our loved keyboards and a mouse, not by using it with a touchscreen like a tablet or a smartphone.

Windows 8 actually promotes more keyboard use than previous versions. That's what I find so odd about people on these forums complaining about having to use keyboard shortcuts in Windows 8 for things would be previously done with a mouse (e.g. Windows key + type to search for a program, as opposed to navigating the Start Menu with a mouse).

[fohat.digs]

I keep using more keyboard shortcuts all the time. I even have one to come to this forum, which is embarrassing.

Anything that eliminates mousing is a good thing, in my opinion. As a pointing device, editing photos and drawings, certainly, but for mundane functions like "open" or "save", no.

After dismissing 8 altogether, I am now ready to give it a go - when the first service pack comes out - but not before!

PS - any guesses about when that will be? I get the feeling that they will accelerate the schedule quite a bit.

[daerid]

To be perfectly honest, this is the first Windows release that I will recommend without reservation to anybody before it's first service pack. It's that solid.

I've been running RTM since early August, and haven't had a single crash or error. And I do software development. It's the most stable Windows release ever.

[yester64]

Well once i have no pc which win8 will not reject, i will try it out for myself. I read a lot of good stuff about it on ars. Even though i have Win7 running i don't mind to switch but i need to see it for myself in order to make that decision.

[TheProfosist]

To be perfectly honest, this is the first Windows release that I will recommend without reservation to anybody before it's first service pack. It's that solid.

I've been running RTM since early August, and haven't had a single crash or error. And I do software development. It's the most stable Windows release ever.

I havnt had any crashes that wernt firefoxes fault so i would have to agree there.

[daerid]

I believe the Windows 8 requirements are actually less than Windows 7, but regardless, if you're machine will run Windows 7, it should run Windows 8.

[TheProfosist]

I believe the Windows 8 requirements are actually less than Windows 7, but regardless, if you're machine will run Windows 7, it should run Windows 8.

their the exact same except graphically which is less because of no aero which im happy about.

[Dreadwyrm]

I really don't like the Metro interface, but apart from that, it could as well be a phenomenal OS (I didn't really do any research), but the fact that the main screen looks like something a drunk cubist Picasso designed seals the deal for me. Also, still no colemak support out of the box. Meh.

[BlindRAGE606]

With Start8, it transforms the OS onto something completely useable.

[daerid]

There's nothing a start menu can do that the new start screen can't. It's just a full-screen start menu. You don't even have to have any patterns on it, just plain dark gray.

[deepthawt]

@BlindRAGE606

With Start8, it transforms the OS onto something completely useable.

I totally agree, for $5 its worth it to have things organized in sensible places and not have to deal with the metro screen.

[daerid]

I'm actually, honestly baffled by this. What does the start menu give you that the start screen doesn't? I'm honestly confused here.

[TheProfosist]

I'm actually, honestly baffled by this. What does the start menu give you that the start screen doesn't? I'm honestly confused here.

all the pop out stuff for profile folder my computer control panel and network?