Next keyboard I should get?

[djones]

My journey for the perfect keyboard has lead me on this route (in the order I used them):
1) MacAlly Ice keyboard- ok keys but broke way too easily
2) Kinesis Advantage Pro- Seemed like a good idea but I came to the conclusion that having your hands completely locked in one position is not good for my RSI. Keys (brown cherries) were nice, maybe a bit too light even for me, and using the thumb for so many modifiers was giving my thumb pains.
3) Unicomp buckling springs- keys waaay too hard.
4) Das II- Decent all around... I like the keys (blue cherries) but it's two-step action is little weird. I like it enough that I haven't returned it but can't quite see using it permanently
5) HHKB Pro II- I like the keys the best so far-- very smooth action, keys are light enough. My only wish is that it had more modifier keys (ie, it could use a control key on the right side, as well as full size Alt keys.) and arrow keys. Not very good for windows development because visual studio needs arrow keys/function keys.

Given this, what should be my next keyboard? Ideally, there is a keyboard out there with keys at least as light as the HHKB, arrow/home/pgup/down keys, function keys, no num pad, full size control and alt on both sides.

[iMav]

Given this, what should be my next keyboard? Ideally, there is a keyboard out there with keys at least as light as the HHKB, arrow/home/pgup/down keys, function keys, no num pad, full size control and alt on both sides.

By "full-sized alt key" do you mean the 1.5 sized key that you typically see on full sized keyboards??  (same size as your typical tab key)

Layout-wise, you want an 84-key Model M spacesaver.  Unfortunately, you don't like the buckling springs...so this is not an option.  What you want doesn't exist AFAIK.  Join the club...I'd like a HHKB layout (maybe a Lite 2 layout with the separate arrow keys) with blue cherry keyswitches.  Don't think I'll be seeing that any time soon.  

Personally, I think the HHKB layout is perfect.  There is the occasional situation where I'd like a dedicated inverted T arrow key block...but that is typically for when I am playing some sort of cheesy flash game.  For my normal use, the FN-arrow key usage is more than adequate (alot easier than you'd think).

[ecru]

Realforce89UB NF01B0
Realforce91UBK  NG01B0

Might be worth looking at.  Both have Topre capacitative switches and should feel similar to the HHKB Pro (made by Topre, though the keys are all 45g I think).

I have a Filco FKB100M/NB with brown cherries.  I have been able to remap the kana key, circling arrow keys and the two 'spare' keys.   I still use the US dvorak layout so some of the symbols are marked wrong (eg top row), but in the 'usual' place.  Personally I find the brown cherries too light, but the layout makes up for that.

[iMav]

Realforce89UB NF01B0
Realforce91UBK  NG01B0

Any idea if those are available in a US layout?  That would be a nice keyboard for those that like the idea of the HHKB Pro, but aren't quite ready to ditch the familiar navigation block and arrow keys.

[djones]

By "full-sized alt key" do you mean the 1.5 sized key that you typically see on full sized keyboards??  (same size as your typical tab key)

Yep.... I like my modifier keys big and next to the space bar.

I didn't realize that the HHKB's and RealForce's used the same keys. seems even better since the latter uses different weights for different keys. I might get the japanese layout and remap the keys, but I wonder if the special keys are 'recognized' by xmodmap/other key remapping software... like how the 'Fn' on the hhkb key itself doesn't generate a keycode so you can remap it.

And the orgy of potential modifiers on the space bar row is interesting as well :-D

[Korbin]

5) HHKB Pro II- I like the keys the best so far-- very smooth action, keys are light enough. My only wish is that it had more modifier keys (ie, it could use a control key on the right side, as well as full size Alt keys.) and arrow keys. Not very good for windows development because visual studio needs arrow keys/function keys.

This was a big adjustment for me too... but I eventually begin to love it. It does feel strange using 3 key chords but using 3 key chords in visual studio is not that uncommon even with standard keyboard (control+shif+B in certain key configurations).

If you like HHKB Pro II the most in terms of keystrokes I would say stick with it till the 3 key chords become second nature. Even with the 3 key chords i think the key layout of the HHKB in visual studio is still faster than a standard keyboard layout (or maybe I have really gotten use ot them ).

[jemkeys]

The 2-key layout for backspace was easy enough to get used to for me.  I honestly don't even think about it.  It's become second nature.

I know alot of you guys flipped the dip switch to make it a full-time backspace, but I like having the delete key for ctrl+alt+delete scenarios .

[ecru]

Any idea if those are available in a US layout?

Not as far as I know.

I might get the japanese layout and remap the keys, but I wonder if the special keys are 'recognized' by xmodmap/other key remapping software

On my Filco all the keys generate a keycode and are mappable with xmodmap, so I guess the Topre would generate the same codes.  If you want any specific tests let me know (Debian Lenny).

[Eclairz]

4) Das II- Decent all around... I like the keys (blue cherries) but it's two-step action is little weird. I like it enough that I haven't returned it but can't quite see using it permanently

If you don't like the two step action maybe its time you tried the black stems as they are linear or even brown stem cherries if you don't like completely linear keys. remember g80-3000 codes though so you dont get another blue stem (LSCxx), but you get a brown stem(LQCxx) or black stem(LPCxx). Of course if you need n-key rollover for games there are more expensive black stem keyboards like the steel series steelkeys 6g(which im using) and the 7g, rapter k1 and the new gigabyte keyboard with lots of macro functionality

[lowpoly]

Realforce89UB NF01B0
Realforce91UBK  NG01B0

My wishlist just got longer.

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

2) Kinesis Advantage Pro- Seemed like a good idea but I came to the conclusion that having your hands completely locked in one position is not good for my RSI. Keys (brown cherries) were nice, maybe a bit too light even for me, and using the thumb for so many modifiers was giving my thumb pains.

Considered getting one, but decided against it for the same reasons.  Thanks for confirming my suspicions.  Freedom of movement and periodic sitting/typing position changes are now considered to be part of good ergonomics as well.

[djones]

Considered getting one, but decided against it for the same reasons.  Thanks for confirming my suspicions.  Freedom of movement and periodic sitting/typing position changes are now considered to be part of good ergonomics as well.

Yea. Not to mention the kinesis is gigantic, even though it lacks a numpad/directional keys. it will not fit on your keyboard tray because it's 5 inches thick so you have to put it on your desk. in terms of my RSI, I'm been having much better luck with ordinary layout keyboards (with good keys of course) and changing my typing technique (ie, not using my pinky, keeping my hands at an angel, lowering my keyboard down to elbow level, improving posture, etc).

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

Yea. Not to mention the kinesis is gigantic, even though it lacks a numpad/directional keys. it will not fit on your keyboard tray because it's 5 inches thick so you have to put it on your desk. in terms of my RSI, I'm been having much better luck with ordinary layout keyboards (with good keys of course) and changing my typing technique (ie, not using my pinky, keeping my hands at an angel, lowering my keyboard down to elbow level, improving posture, etc).

IMO, thumbing oversized meta keys instead of pinkies on control keys also helps.  MS Naturals are good in that respect.  But the keyfeel is a lottery with those.  I've also swapped my backspace and caps lock keys.  A lot less reaching that way.