Post by: Badwrench on Mon, 16 February 2015, 20:45:26
The goal of this IC is to get some feedback on colors and optional keys that alps Infinity users would like (kit may also fit any potentially upcoming 60% boards?). I would prefer to keep the colors classic so that the kit matches the majority of the boards that are out there ie: beige/grey so that the options of picking alphas for your infinity/custom are less limiting.
As of right now, this is my proposed set:
[attachimg=1]
Colors for the kit are NN/BX and are done in double shot abs with a DCS profile so that it matches the majority of existing alps caps. The only oddity is the space bar which SP currently only has molds in DSA profile for. I will try to match the most popular existing alps kits so that there are 2-3 options for colors on the space bar. The other option is to order a black or white one in from Matias. The profile from Matias is very close to DCS but with a more rounded front edge.
List of contributors for legends:
Nubbinator: "Alps" mountain logo for win keys.
Njbair: "Alps" mountain logo for winkeyless.
More
(http://www.downloadclipart.net/medium/10863-black-and-white-mountain-clip-art.png)
jdcarpe: "slider" logo
More
http://www.unixstickers.com/image/cache/data/stickers/hackerEmblem/Hacker-logo.sh-600x600.png
Post by: mr.squishy on Mon, 16 February 2015, 21:09:56
Personally I like the darker green.
I mean I'm in. Probably. As long as it isn't $40 a set.
Also, a key puller would be pretty awesome.
Post by: engicoder on Mon, 16 February 2015, 21:26:32
- Use only 1u - 1.75u caps for this buy. They are cheaper and it eliminates the stabilizer issue that was a source of contention on the last buy.
- Run it directly (the old fashioned way), and not through PMK. I am willing to help in any way I can with that. My Rad Hard deal went pretty smoothly.
Post by: Badwrench on Mon, 16 February 2015, 21:47:09
I think a color set is a good idea....getting a consensus on which color may be difficult, but I'm in regardless. A few suggestions
- Use only 1u - 1.75u caps for this buy. They are cheaper and it eliminates the stabilizer issue that was a source of contention on the last buy.
- Run it directly (the old fashioned way), and not through PMK. I am willing to help in any way I can with that. My Rad Hard deal went pretty smoothly.
I am totally down to do it direct and have no problem doing it myself. As far as adding the stabilized caps - they are there to give people that bought the Infinity board on Massdrop and plan to use Alps/Matias switches a source for those caps.
If you look at my current buy on PMK, most of the child deals are at $26 starting point and I figure this will probably fall in that range as well (unless we get over 50 sets ordered, and then it drops dramatically).
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 16 February 2015, 22:12:05
I prefer the orange and black, myself.
I'd definitely be in for a couple sets. :thumb:
Post by: geniekid on Mon, 16 February 2015, 23:50:06
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 17 February 2015, 01:49:59
(http://i.imgur.com/iYZOH5P.jpg)
Or like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/ruyFmy7.jpg)
Or Apple caps, like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/Pg2kjPE.jpg)
DCS is this:
(http://i.imgur.com/wsKUt3c.jpg)
In other words, not quite the same (in particular, a bit shorter), but also not impossibly far off.
(pics taken from my thread here, https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550))
Post by: engicoder on Tue, 17 February 2015, 06:48:00
I am totally down to do it direct and have no problem doing it myself. As far as adding the stabilized caps - they are there to give people that bought the Infinity board on Massdrop and plan to use Alps/Matias switches a source for those caps.
Holy Moly!! I didn't appreciate at how many infinity boards they had sold. In that light, seems like stabilized caps targeting those boards makes sense.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 17 February 2015, 06:58:58
The OG color scheme is quite nice and I could take pictures of my set if you like. I'd also love to see:
- Pink on Purple
- Orange on Black
- Blue on Pink or vice versa (whichever has the better contrast)
- Anything with teal
- Of course, anything with purple
Post by: Applet on Tue, 17 February 2015, 10:33:21
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 17 February 2015, 11:22:49
5k177 was the original user that had those caps made AFAIK. I don't think they should be in these new sets. Plus the 5k177 cap that I just received was MX stem. The rest of the caps were Alps.
The OG color scheme is quite nice and I could take pictures of my set if you like. I'd also love to see:
- Pink on Purple
- Orange on Black
- Blue on Pink or vice versa (whichever has the better contrast)
- Anything with teal
- Of course, anything with purple
Ahh, didn't realize that was the original user that made that set. I will pull it now that I know.
I will do a few more mock-ups with different colors and post them in the op to get more feedback. As of right now, I am leaning to the black on orange with JD. It feels to me like the current "geekhack" set.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 17 February 2015, 11:25:20
5k177 was the original user that had those caps made AFAIK. I don't think they should be in these new sets. Plus the 5k177 cap that I just received was MX stem. The rest of the caps were Alps.
The OG color scheme is quite nice and I could take pictures of my set if you like. I'd also love to see:
- Pink on Purple
- Orange on Black
- Blue on Pink or vice versa (whichever has the better contrast)
- Anything with teal
- Of course, anything with purple
Ahh, didn't realize that was the original user that made that set. I will pull it now that I know.
I will do a few more mock-ups with different colors and post them in the op to get more feedback. As of right now, I am leaning to the black on orange with JD. It feels to me like the current "geekhack" set.
Also, I like the Star key in R1 profile, in addition to the R4. :)
I would go with ALL CAPS for the GEEK HACK key. And maybe Cherry font for the others just for giggles?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 17 February 2015, 11:31:46
Ahh, didn't realize that was the original user that made that set. I will pull it now that I know.
Just for your own information, here's the website with the original GHSS info (http://web.archive.org/web/20130427041124/http://5k177keyboards.wordpress.com/2010/11/26/the-geek-hack-space-saver-available-now/). I can't figure out if it was just a website or if 5k177 was a user or if it was a user-run website with a different name. Megarat has a FS thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42602.msg859818#msg859818) which has some cool info too.
Also, I like the Star key in R1 profile, in addition to the R4. :)
I would go with ALL CAPS for the GEEK HACK key. And maybe Cherry font for the others just for giggles?
I think it'd be cool to see all lower case just to see something different. Cherry font would be cool. And I like the star key idea.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 17 February 2015, 11:40:39
I think it'd be cool to see all lower case just to see something different.
Meh, not a fan, personally.
(http://i.imgur.com/H059L9W.png)
Image credit: Techkeys.us
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 17 February 2015, 11:56:05
As far as upper or lower case on the "geekhack" keys, I think I will go with the upper after seeing that lower case one. It doesn't look bad, just not a clean as the standard one.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 17 February 2015, 11:59:30
I think the Cherry font would be neat as well, but I wanted to get a gauge from this thread if people want the caps to stand out on more than just the color. A lot of the older boards have a very similar font to the standard SP font.
Yes, you're right about that. I only suggested Cherry font due to the increased contrast. But I'm good with SP standard.
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 17 February 2015, 19:16:33
Anyone else want to add their own?
Link to the template I was using: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/bb762da76b3c78a8b9f11622c6720f92 (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/bb762da76b3c78a8b9f11622c6720f92)
Post by: mr.squishy on Tue, 17 February 2015, 21:37:11
Just so you have my input :thumb:
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Wed, 18 February 2015, 21:37:16
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 18 February 2015, 21:41:42
If you could do a set out of nice, thick, dye sublimated PBT then I would throw money at you hand over fist. Otherwise, I just don't see the point. Doubleshot ABS Alps keycaps are cheap and plentiful as it is.
Because some of us can't stand dyesub PBT. I'd much rather have a nice crisp double shot ABS in DCS profile than that PBT crap.
Double shot ABS with the GEEK HACK legend for Alps are not plentiful. There are about three of those available, if you can find them. And only one set of the G and H keys. That's what this buy is about.
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Wed, 18 February 2015, 22:04:25
If you could do a set out of nice, thick, dye sublimated PBT then I would throw money at you hand over fist. Otherwise, I just don't see the point. Doubleshot ABS Alps keycaps are cheap and plentiful as it is.
Because some of us can't stand dyesub PBT. I'd much rather have a nice crisp double shot ABS in DCS profile than that PBT crap.
Double shot ABS with the GEEK HACK legend for Alps are not plentiful. There are about three of those available, if you can find them. And only one set of the G and H keys. That's what this buy is about.
I, uh, I don't get it. A keyboard is a tool, not a piece of art. The way it feels to type is orders of magnitude more important than the way it looks. PBT feels better to type on than ABS. I don't understand why anyone would disagree with that, but if you do disagree then there is a huge variety of doubleshot ABS keycaps out there, something not true of PBT keycaps. Where you lose me completely is when you start going on about novelty keycaps. I will never wrap my head around novelty keycaps.
Post by: mr.squishy on Wed, 18 February 2015, 22:08:14
The same reason why Trucks exist. Because some people like things that are different and not exactly useful, but still aesthetically pleasing.If you could do a set out of nice, thick, dye sublimated PBT then I would throw money at you hand over fist. Otherwise, I just don't see the point. Doubleshot ABS Alps keycaps are cheap and plentiful as it is.
Because some of us can't stand dyesub PBT. I'd much rather have a nice crisp double shot ABS in DCS profile than that PBT crap.
Double shot ABS with the GEEK HACK legend for Alps are not plentiful. There are about three of those available, if you can find them. And only one set of the G and H keys. That's what this buy is about.
I, uh, I don't get it. A keyboard is a tool, not a piece of art. The way it feels to type is orders of magnitude more important than the way it looks. PBT feels better to type on than ABS. I don't understand why anyone would disagree with that, but if you do disagree then there is a huge variety of doubleshot ABS keycaps out there, something not true of PBT keycaps. Where you lose me completely is when you start going on about novelty keycaps. I will never wrap my head around novelty keycaps.
Post by: Badwrench on Wed, 18 February 2015, 23:24:30
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 19 February 2015, 12:44:08
PBT feels better to type on than ABS. I don't understand why anyone would disagree with that
And that's your opinion. Mine is like JD's. If i could, I'd have all ABS on everything including my IBM boards. In fact, there's a specific set on my SSK because I like how it feels. The caps were used in airport terminals and so they saw heavy usage. They're worn smooth and I love how that smoothness feels. I hate the feeling of PBT and I've sold off all my MX PBT. I'd sell off more in Alps and IBM flavors if I could. But I can't at the moment.
I don't understand why you're so determined to think that your opinion reflects everyone else's. That will never be the case and getting mad about it doesn't convince me otherwise. I don't get many of the things you like but I'm never hounding people to think that what I like is the only thing they should like.
Post by: engicoder on Thu, 19 February 2015, 15:57:30
Where you lose me completely is when you start going on about novelty keycaps. I will never wrap my head around novelty keycaps.
Its like any other product that is more than just what's needed to get the job done most efficiently. Sure we could poo-poo novelty caps, and while we're at it lets all drive smart cars, dress in jump suits, and eat soylent green, because why would we need anything else.?
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 22:45:13
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 20 February 2015, 05:44:52
Sure we could poo-poo novelty caps, and while we're at it lets all drive smart cars, dress in jump suits, and eat soylent green, because why would we need anything else.?Jumpsuits are often too hot or too cold and not very comfortable, and soylent green is made from ground-up grandma, so I’m not sure about those, but abandoning novelty caps and all driving Smarts sounds like a fine idea to me. Would make life a lot nicer for cyclists and pedestrians, and generally make urban areas a lot more pleasant. Parking lots, super wide streets, freeways, and cars driving >20mph in residential areas are all things I would love to get rid of. Our subway/trolley/train infrastructure is going to need some work though.
Post by: geniekid on Fri, 20 February 2015, 08:30:54
soylent green is made from ground-up grandma
Wait...soylent green is PEOPLE?! :eek:
On topic, we should keep in mind whatever color scheme we choose should go somewhat well with black on beige/grey since this is likely the base color scheme these caps will be used with.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 20 February 2015, 08:31:53
On topic, we should keep in mind whatever color scheme we choose should go somewhat well with black on beige/grey since this is likely the base color scheme these caps will be used with.
Agreed. Pink or purple go well with that :P.
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 20 February 2015, 11:59:05
On topic, we should keep in mind whatever color scheme we choose should go somewhat well with black on beige/grey since this is likely the base color scheme these caps will be used with.
Agreed. Pink or purple go well with that :P.
You mean like this?
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 20 February 2015, 12:14:12
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 20 February 2015, 12:16:17
Post by: mashby on Fri, 20 February 2015, 12:57:05
::: Colorway :::
I know I must sound like a broken record, but Klaxon (http://keypuller.com/klaxon/) was a hugely popular group buy. It was the third group buy in that colorway, with Red Alert and Red Alert 2.0 preceding it. I think if you chose that colorway you'd be making a safe bet.
Personally, I think red would be a popular color for the asian communities since it's a popular color used in many of the custom boards. That could go a long way in bolstering the numbers because there are many proxies in the GH community that would provide large orders.
::: Old School Group Buy :::
It's more work, but I think if you did this as an old school group buy it could be easier to reach the numbers you're looking for. PMKs system is handy, but given the fact that you have to commit the money up front slows down the process. If you go back and review the original thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37225.msg707838#msg707838) for the Klaxon GB, you'll see what I'm talking about. Pricing was clear, up front and interest was able to build as more-and-more orders came in. There was a lot of peer pressure to put in your order so that we'd tip to the next tier.
Granted, it's more work. You're accepting orders from a Google Form and living in spreadsheets. When you're ready to place the order, you then have to issue PayPal invoices and track down people for payment. After the key caps come in, you're then having to ship out everyone's orders. PITA for sure, but I think it would give time for this to build interest and hopefully yield a successful group buy.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 20 February 2015, 13:02:01
Most of the other suggestions are more subdued and would go great with any of those. Hell, even toxic would go great with them.
That's just me being outspoken again though since I absolutely hate the Klaxon colorway.
Post by: mashby on Fri, 20 February 2015, 13:23:20
Klaxon really wouldn't go well with the main Alps caps out there, which are beige and cream, black, and Dolchish. I know I would run away from Klaxon so quick it's not even funny.
Most of the other suggestions are more subdued and would go great with any of those. Hell, even toxic would go great with them.
That's just me being outspoken again though since I absolutely hate the Klaxon colorway.
Good points, no doubt.
But just to make sure that i'm not missing something in the time that I've been away, but this set isn't supplementing an existing set is it? I was under the impression that this was a complete set, so that fact that it's doesn't go well with the the sets currently out there seems moot.
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 20 February 2015, 13:33:07
Klaxon really wouldn't go well with the main Alps caps out there, which are beige and cream, black, and Dolchish. I know I would run away from Klaxon so quick it's not even funny.
Most of the other suggestions are more subdued and would go great with any of those. Hell, even toxic would go great with them.
That's just me being outspoken again though since I absolutely hate the Klaxon colorway.
Good points, no doubt.
But just to make sure that i'm not missing something in the time that I've been away, but this set isn't supplementing an existing set is it? I was under the impression that this was a complete set, so that fact that it's doesn't go well with the the sets currently out there seems moot.
These are just a mini-pack. They are meant to add compatability to the Infinity board or to add a pop of color to an existing board similar to how the pack that 5k177 did for the mini-touch. I don't mind the Klaxon colorway personally, but would prefer to do a color that will brighten up a board.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 20 February 2015, 14:05:19
On topic, we should keep in mind whatever color scheme we choose should go somewhat well with black on beige/grey since this is likely the base color scheme these caps will be used with.
Agreed. Pink or purple go well with that :P.
You mean like this?
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I would buy multiples of these, unless I ran into some unforeseen financial troubles. :)
engicoder, did you have good success with your Massdrop-esque "commit to buy at..." system? Maybe that could work well here and get some people interested. I always observed that that was a big hurdle with the old-fashioned buys here (and even on PMK), with people wanting to buy in but only at a lower amount. Backing out at an expensive tier is a big no-no, so people would sit the GB out and not participate. Any way to get more people to buy in would be a big win. With a smaller, simpler set like this I think it wouldn't be too much extra work for you, but maybe that's incorrect. :P
Post by: mashby on Fri, 20 February 2015, 15:01:08
These are just a mini-pack. They are meant to add compatability to the Infinity board or to add a pop of color to an existing board similar to how the pack that 5k177 did for the mini-touch. I don't mind the Klaxon colorway personally, but would prefer to do a color that will brighten up a board.
*facepalm* Then scratch everything I just said. :))
Think I'll go back and READ the dang OP. :rolleyes:
Post by: zombimuncha on Fri, 20 February 2015, 15:30:24
Back OT, I guess I would only use the Enter from this set, but I would still buy it just "because". I like either of the blue colours, with a slight preference for the darker one.
A crazy idea occurred to me that it might be possible to talk SP into doing a buy for a full keyset with a cool colourway with an OPTION of your set being done in Alps mount instead of MX.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 20 February 2015, 15:37:10
Hi, I'm new here, but you may have noticed me trying to drum up support for the Delta Blues set of on r/MK. Pleased to meet you!
Back OT, I guess I would only use the Enter from this set, but I would still buy it just "because". I like either of the blue colours, with a slight preference for the darker one.
I'm not OP, but thanks for helping to build support. :)
I'm guessing that you're not super interested because it's a geekhack themed set? Not calling that out as being a problem, just want to understand the reason (legends, colors, caps, etc). Obviously the intent here is to make a GH set, so that's not likely to change in your favor if it is the deterrent. :-X
A crazy idea occurred to me that it might be possible to talk SP into doing a buy for a full keyset with a cool colourway with an OPTION of your set being done in Alps mount instead of MX.
Interesting idea. It would help with material loading (they would use the same colors for the entire run), but they would still have the problem of changing the tooling out for the two stem types. I'm not familiar enough with their process to understand which changeover type is a bigger time/money waster for them, but it may be worth bringing up.
Post by: geniekid on Fri, 20 February 2015, 16:10:14
A crazy idea occurred to me that it might be possible to talk SP into doing a buy for a full keyset with a cool colourway with an OPTION of your set being done in Alps mount instead of MX.
That is a very interesting idea! They would probably still have some kind of MOQ but it could potentially be quite low.
Post by: zombimuncha on Fri, 20 February 2015, 16:28:01
I'm guessing that you're not super interested because it's a geekhack themed set? Not calling that out as being a problem, just want to understand the reason (legends, colors, caps, etc). Obviously the intent here is to make a GH set, so that's not likely to change in your favor if it is the deterrent. :-X
I currently only use 'proper' keyboards at work, so (1) having the word "geek" all over it is ...ahh... how should I say... drawing attention to stereotypes?, and (2) I want it to be functional - really the only key I aim for when moving my hand from mouse to keyboard is Enter. After that everything else just falls into place naturally. The symmetry of the GH I find kinda cute but is not gonna help me in any way and I think it would look kinda fugly sitting out on it's own like that - can't stand vanity ESC keys etc.
I guess I'd probly use the star for winKey too. Maybe. In any case, count me in, just for the sake of encouraging Alps keyset availability.
I noticed Klaxon / red alert colour scheme mentioned in this thread. While I dig the sh*t of that in general, it's probably not my first choice to go with my black on shiny black Matias Quiet Pro.
Post by: Matias on Fri, 20 February 2015, 16:52:56
I like the colours on deck BTW.
Post by: mr.squishy on Fri, 20 February 2015, 18:42:21
This. I can't even use 2 of the keys in this set (because apple keyboards are weird) but I still want it for some variety.
These are just a mini-pack. They are meant to add compatability to the Infinity board or to add a pop of color to an existing board similar to how the pack that 5k177 did for the mini-touch. I don't mind the Klaxon colorway personally, but would prefer to do a color that will brighten up a board.
Post by: engicoder on Fri, 20 February 2015, 21:27:34
engicoder, did you have good success with your Massdrop-esque "commit to buy at..." system? Maybe that could work well here and get some people interested. I always observed that that was a big hurdle with the old-fashioned buys here (and even on PMK), with people wanting to buy in but only at a lower amount. Backing out at an expensive tier is a big no-no, so people would sit the GB out and not participate. Any way to get more people to buy in would be a big win. With a smaller, simpler set like this I think it wouldn't be too much extra work for you, but maybe that's incorrect. :P
Yes, I think it worked very well. A large number of people committed early at high buy in levels that were eventually met. When the deal ended, I gave everyone who had committed at a level that had not been reached a chance to convert to the final price and most did buy in. I don't think my Rad Hard buy would have succeeded without the "commit at" mechanism.
As far as colorway, can I throw the Triump Adler color in the mix. (or what ever SP color is closest)
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 20 February 2015, 22:15:16
engicoder, did you have good success with your Massdrop-esque "commit to buy at..." system? Maybe that could work well here and get some people interested. I always observed that that was a big hurdle with the old-fashioned buys here (and even on PMK), with people wanting to buy in but only at a lower amount. Backing out at an expensive tier is a big no-no, so people would sit the GB out and not participate. Any way to get more people to buy in would be a big win. With a smaller, simpler set like this I think it wouldn't be too much extra work for you, but maybe that's incorrect. :P
Yes, I think it worked very well. A large number of people committed early at high buy in levels that were eventually met. When the deal ended, I gave everyone who had committed at a level that had not been reached a chance to convert to the final price and most did buy in. I don't think my Rad Hard buy would have succeeded without the "commit at" mechanism.
As far as colorway, can I throw the Triump Adler color in the mix. (or what ever SP color is closest)
That is an interesting way to do the GB. I have a call in to SP to ask a few questions about doing this pack and will hopefully get some pricing soon as well.
Closest to Adler colors in my eyes is VAF (done with NN legends to match most boards):
[attach=1]
Also did another one for CPT :thumb:
[attach=2]
And one for Nubbinator (Toxic!):
[attach=3]
Also, just throwing this out there. What are peoples thoughts on just doing an entire Infinity Mod set (with both bottom row options - to make a master kit)?
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 20 February 2015, 22:23:20
Post by: engicoder on Fri, 20 February 2015, 22:27:30
engicoder, did you have good success with your Massdrop-esque "commit to buy at..." system? Maybe that could work well here and get some people interested. I always observed that that was a big hurdle with the old-fashioned buys here (and even on PMK), with people wanting to buy in but only at a lower amount. Backing out at an expensive tier is a big no-no, so people would sit the GB out and not participate. Any way to get more people to buy in would be a big win. With a smaller, simpler set like this I think it wouldn't be too much extra work for you, but maybe that's incorrect. :P
Yes, I think it worked very well. A large number of people committed early at high buy in levels that were eventually met. When the deal ended, I gave everyone who had committed at a level that had not been reached a chance to convert to the final price and most did buy in. I don't think my Rad Hard buy would have succeeded without the "commit at" mechanism.
As far as colorway, can I throw the Triump Adler color in the mix. (or what ever SP color is closest)
That is an interesting way to do the GB. I have a call in to SP to ask a few questions about doing this pack and will hopefully get some pricing soon as well.
Here is a link to the form I used for the Rad Hard buy if your interested in what my "Commit At" system looked like.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1HLRgoY0rbM1_A0VDzFAXNhFgkDN9eHRe90X1_cHOcAo/viewform#start=openform
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 20 February 2015, 22:29:07
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 20 February 2015, 22:32:52
And then I would have to buy an Infinity... :-X
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 20 February 2015, 23:50:22
[attach=1]
This would be a complete kit and allow the use of pretty much any alpha kit you wanted with an Infinity board and would cover both layouts.
Please input what you think would be the best options for the bottom row. I am not sure if it makes sense to have 3 different function keys on the same layer, but I have never had an hhkb, so maybe that is just me.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 20 February 2015, 23:54:35
Post by: Badwrench on Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:00:02
I'd prefer the infinity sign replace the winkey, but I would buy it. Should it also have an |\ key as well?
That makes more sense. I will change it up. I will also add the \| and a caps lock key as an option. I was going off of the standard layouts from the Massdrop page. One problem with designing a keyset for this is that you can set it up however you want.
Edit: Fixed :thumb:
[attach=1]
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 21 February 2015, 00:45:20
Post by: atectatifern on Sat, 21 February 2015, 08:01:23
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 21 February 2015, 08:06:57
Although, that doesn't really jive at all with the choice of Delete legend for backspace... :-/
Post by: Matias on Sat, 21 February 2015, 10:52:12
I'd prefer the infinity sign replace the winkey, but I would buy it. Should it also have an |\ key as well?
That makes more sense. I will change it up. I will also add the \| and a caps lock key as an option. I was going off of the standard layouts from the Massdrop page. One problem with designing a keyset for this is that you can set it up however you want.
Edit: Fixed :thumb:
(Attachment Link)
If you add a 2u Backspace and 2.75u Shift, then these would fit pretty much all ALPS keyboards. (I can supply stab wires.)
Post by: mashby on Sat, 21 February 2015, 17:01:45
Hell, looks like I'm desoldering my new Infinity keyboard too! LOL! :p
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 21 February 2015, 18:19:54
With the changes suggested, I'd be in for a set.Do you think you could have some switches MX and some Matias?
Hell, looks like I'm desoldering my new Infinity keyboard too! LOL! :p
Post by: mashby on Sat, 21 February 2015, 18:21:52
Do you think you could have some switches MX and some Matias?
I don't think so.
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 21 February 2015, 18:37:46
Do you think you could have some switches MX and some Matias?
I don't think so.
You could. I just pulled out my plate and MX switches fit in it just fine.
(http://i.imgur.com/IqBTEQx.jpg)
Post by: mr.squishy on Sun, 22 February 2015, 12:28:26
Post by: atectatifern on Mon, 23 February 2015, 05:46:51
Can conform--did successfully mix switches. After getting the wrong space bar right off and breaking the stem on the ALPS ENTER key cap, I subbed in two Cherry MX blacks temporarily for each of those keys with no problem.
You could. I just pulled out my plate and MX switches fit in it just fine.
(image snipped)
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 24 February 2015, 19:26:00
This puts us with a few options:
1: Go back to the original point of this particular buy of being a color pack, and do a separate IC for a dsa complete Infinity kit.
2: Continue as an Infinity mod pack and add some dsa spacebars in the common colors of alphas that are out there. (I know the profile is pretty low to combine with dcs, but it is doable when the alternative is either a black or white oem profile unit from Matias - which is still a good option, but won`t match the colors of anything but a black AT101W).
3: Do a new IC for a dsa infinity kit with an optional dsa color pack.
Let me know what you guys think of the options above. I am also curious how many people actually chose the matias/alps route for their Infinity.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 24 February 2015, 19:28:58
Can SP not do a 6.00-unit DCS spacebar with an Alps stem? Seems like they have the capability to put any stem on any mold they currently have.
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 24 February 2015, 19:30:36
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:21:33
I know several of you want compatibility with your Infinity keyboards, and I have nothing against having that available. But I am out completely if it's DSA. I just hate it.
Can SP not do a 6.00-unit DCS spacebar with an Alps stem? Seems like they have the capability to put any stem on any mold they currently have.
Nope, no molds for dcs spacebars with the alps stem in any size. I am not a huge fan of dcs, but am getting used to it on the jd40.
I say do point 2. DCS sets so it's closer to existing Alps profile caps and then DSA spacebars so we have something we can use.
This is where I would prefer as well. What colors would you recommend for the spacebars?
Also, I have been looking at the color chips and am really liking BX.
[attach=1]
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:24:57
For spacebars, it would probably do to do a generic beige and black.
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:30:54
I'd do one full kit, include the color kit. It doesn't add much cost and it will give more people more variation.
For spacebars, it would probably do to do a generic beige and black.
Sounds good. Thought you might like the colors above ;D
Did you ever get a color ring? There are several beige colors available, does anyone know which are usually picked to match factory sets?
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:34:30
Post by: FrostyToast on Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:49:41
I am getting some AEK II keys so I can colour match those if you want.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:54:05
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 24 February 2015, 20:55:21
Either that or option one is run with Mathias spacebars, but they don't have a beige.
Post by: FrostyToast on Tue, 24 February 2015, 21:11:02
engicoder, did you have good success with your Massdrop-esque "commit to buy at..." system? Maybe that could work well here and get some people interested. I always observed that that was a big hurdle with the old-fashioned buys here (and even on PMK), with people wanting to buy in but only at a lower amount. Backing out at an expensive tier is a big no-no, so people would sit the GB out and not participate. Any way to get more people to buy in would be a big win. With a smaller, simpler set like this I think it wouldn't be too much extra work for you, but maybe that's incorrect. :P
Yes, I think it worked very well. A large number of people committed early at high buy in levels that were eventually met. When the deal ended, I gave everyone who had committed at a level that had not been reached a chance to convert to the final price and most did buy in. I don't think my Rad Hard buy would have succeeded without the "commit at" mechanism.
As far as colorway, can I throw the Triump Adler color in the mix. (or what ever SP color is closest)
Closest to Adler colors in my eyes is VAF (done with NN legends to match most boards):
(Attachment Link)
I have a colour ring and VAF isn't like TA or at least it isn't what it should be.
The "V" in the colour code implies that it has a green tone to it which it does.
I would say that BDG or BEY are the prime choices here for TA.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 24 February 2015, 21:20:18
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 24 February 2015, 21:23:05
engicoder, did you have good success with your Massdrop-esque "commit to buy at..." system? Maybe that could work well here and get some people interested. I always observed that that was a big hurdle with the old-fashioned buys here (and even on PMK), with people wanting to buy in but only at a lower amount. Backing out at an expensive tier is a big no-no, so people would sit the GB out and not participate. Any way to get more people to buy in would be a big win. With a smaller, simpler set like this I think it wouldn't be too much extra work for you, but maybe that's incorrect. :P
Yes, I think it worked very well. A large number of people committed early at high buy in levels that were eventually met. When the deal ended, I gave everyone who had committed at a level that had not been reached a chance to convert to the final price and most did buy in. I don't think my Rad Hard buy would have succeeded without the "commit at" mechanism.
As far as colorway, can I throw the Triump Adler color in the mix. (or what ever SP color is closest)
Closest to Adler colors in my eyes is VAF (done with NN legends to match most boards):
(Attachment Link)
I have a colour ring and VAF isn't like TA or at least it isn't what it should be.
The "V" in the colour code implies that it has a green tone to it which it does.
I would say that BDG or BEY are the prime choices here for TA.
Yeah, after looking at the scans on Flickr, I amended my color choice to BX. Not quite as bright as the other 2.
Post by: mr.squishy on Tue, 24 February 2015, 22:13:24
My spacebar is 4.75u long :confused:
Post by: rsadek on Wed, 25 February 2015, 04:36:59
I definitely don't want a winkey, and would love a command/apple key
Re modifiers, one can never have too many. Meta/super/alt/hyper: I want them all.
Blue on pink sounds amazing.
Finally, the full keyset would be really great. It's way too hard to get new alps keys, and I want to outfit a couple of boards w/ Matias switches.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 25 February 2015, 06:31:10
Finally, the full keyset would be really great. It's way too hard to get new alps keys, and I want to outfit a couple of boards w/ Matias switches.
I'd love a full keyset too. Unfortunately, this GB exists because the Delta Blues GB failed.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 25 February 2015, 12:28:12
All the people talking about spacebars...
My spacebar is 4.75u long :confused:
Your spacebar is 4.75 units long? Or inches? What keyboard has a 4.75u spacebar?
Post by: mr.squishy on Wed, 25 February 2015, 15:13:22
Units. Yes, this is correct. My spacebar is 4.75 key widths long. It's on an Apple M0116.All the people talking about spacebars...
My spacebar is 4.75u long :confused:
Your spacebar is 4.75 units long? Or inches? What keyboard has a 4.75u spacebar?
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 27 February 2015, 00:10:37
Post by: ninjadoc on Fri, 27 February 2015, 07:01:33
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 27 February 2015, 07:21:03
I'm in. I need alps mods. Did you ever think about just a set of the beige mods with black lettering. We can all find those keys but it seems to be impossible to get matching mods. I realize it is a simple, plain color but I would buy several sets of those - 2,3, maybe more.
A plain colour would be so boring. Might as well get an AT101 for beige caps.
Coloured mods are what make this idea intriguing and interesting.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 27 February 2015, 07:38:01
Post by: Buddah on Fri, 27 February 2015, 20:03:31
I'd prefer the infinity sign replace the winkey, but I would buy it. Should it also have an |\ key as well?
That makes more sense. I will change it up. I will also add the \| and a caps lock key as an option. I was going off of the standard layouts from the Massdrop page. One problem with designing a keyset for this is that you can set it up however you want.
Edit: Fixed :thumb:
(Attachment Link)
If you add a 2u Backspace and 2.75u Shift, then these would fit pretty much all ALPS keyboards. (I can supply stab wires.)
I would love to put these on my KBP V60MTS, but the lack of a regular long right shift prevents that. The Matias boards (I don't know about all of them, but maybe most?), the V60, and most older ones would have long right shifts, wouldn't they? Would adding that make this a lot more flexible, or is that market still too small and you're better off just going for the Infinity/other custom users?
There would be other issues as well due to stabilizer differences, right? I'm new to this whole thing, so sorry if I'm asking dumb questions!
Post by: ninjadoc on Fri, 27 February 2015, 21:52:24
I'm in. I need alps mods. Did you ever think about just a set of the beige mods with black lettering. We can all find those keys but it seems to be impossible to get matching mods. I realize it is a simple, plain color but I would buy several sets of those - 2,3, maybe more.
A plain colour would be so boring. Might as well get an AT101 for beige caps.
Coloured mods are what make this idea intriguing and interesting.
They would be useful, especially if SP has the off size molds for the odd keys that will fit a Kingsaver. I understand they would be boring, but I can never get a good, full ANSI set. Iso set sure, plenty of those floating around but no fewer ANSI sets. I have a mixture of three sets of keys on the LZ-FE winkeyless board with blue alps that I'm typing on right now.
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 27 February 2015, 22:19:14
Pimp my Keyboard/SP were selling black on red Alps escape keys. Could we get the color pack colors changed since red is already available?
How about something like this?
[attach=1]
Note that the render is mostly for color and layout. Legends can be standard sp or cherry depending on what the majority wants (I would prefer the cherry since I like their modifier legends).
Also, would people be interested in adding a 2.75x rt shift so that this could be used on more standard ansi boards (zero/ducky/kingsaver)?
As to the V60/V80, this kit will not work with those boards without a bit of tinkering as those boards use alps stabilizers on the 2x stabilized keys.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 27 February 2015, 22:21:33
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 27 February 2015, 22:29:11
I liked the red better since it went with the blue. Are there any other colors that would go with the blue? Or maybe just do a different color esc?
How about RCU?
[attach=1]
Post by: potatochip on Sat, 28 February 2015, 05:59:32
I like the lavender. I wouldn't mind some hyper and meta keys thrown in there.
Post by: ctm on Sat, 28 February 2015, 14:13:45
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 28 February 2015, 14:34:29
The colors right now look pretty fantastic though and it's trying to add color to sets.
Post by: ctm on Sat, 28 February 2015, 14:43:10
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 28 February 2015, 14:52:02
Post by: ctm on Sat, 28 February 2015, 14:57:05
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 28 February 2015, 15:01:23
Pimp my Keyboard/SP were selling black on red Alps escape keys. Could we get the color pack colors changed since red is already available?
How about something like this?
(Attachment Link)
Note that the render is mostly for color and layout. Legends can be standard sp or cherry depending on what the majority wants (I would prefer the cherry since I like their modifier legends).
Of course I want to purple so yes.
Also, would people be interested in adding a 2.75x rt shift so that this could be used on more standard ansi boards (zero/ducky/kingsaver)?
As to the V60/V80, this kit will not work with those boards without a bit of tinkering as those boards use alps stabilizers on the 2x stabilized keys.
Kingsaver doesn't work with 2.75x or other standard modifiers. They mods are from a Wang 724 which are slightly bigger than normal ANSI so making caps trying to fit a Kingsaver will end in a fail. There will be gaps and the caps would look bad. We would probably need to get a special mold made.
I liked the red better since it went with the blue. Are there any other colors that would go with the blue? Or maybe just do a different color esc?
I don't think red looks good with blue at all. They don't compliment each other imo. It's just common because we're so used to seeing the USA flag. I'd rather see pink, orange, purple, green, or anything monochromatic.
Post by: Badwrench on Sat, 28 February 2015, 15:24:28
As far as colors, I do like the red, but the light purple might go better with the beige and grey of the older caps, and be a little more subdued. Also I am highly biased to that color.
[attach=1]
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 28 February 2015, 16:11:46
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 28 February 2015, 16:13:00
Post by: Badwrench on Wed, 04 March 2015, 18:59:48
BX/RCU all with NN legends. Spacebars still need to be finalized for colors (anyone with a color ring that can chime in?)
[attach=1]
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68887.0;attach=92271;image)
Post by: potatochip on Wed, 04 March 2015, 20:41:35
Post by: Applet on Thu, 05 March 2015, 01:13:30
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 05 March 2015, 08:39:43
I think it looks good, but no possibility to get a 1.25 shift for ISO-users? :) I understand if ISO-users are not prioritized, especially if it is considered a Infinity mod kid, since it doesn't even have ISO-support. I would also love a ISO-enter, but I just assume that is not really feasible, right?
Actually, this needs a 1.25 Shift, as well as a 1.75 Return, a 1.25 Tab (Row 3), and a Row 2 Esc. ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/9DD2Qui.jpg)
Yes, it supports Alps.
No, none of the keys pictured require stabilizers.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 05 March 2015, 08:42:15
Ok, guys, what do you think about this for a final?
BX/RCU all with NN legends. Spacebars still need to be finalized for colors (anyone with a color ring that can chime in?)
(Attachment Link)Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68887.0;attach=92271;image)
Actually, this needs a 1.25 Shift, as well as a 1.75 Return, a 1.25 Tab (Row 3), and a Row 2 Esc. ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9DD2Qui.jpg)
Yes, it supports Alps.
No, none of the keys pictured require stabilizers.
I approve of both of these things.
I think it looks good, but no possibility to get a 1.25 shift for ISO-users? :) I understand if ISO-users are not prioritized, especially if it is considered a Infinity mod kid, since it doesn't even have ISO-support. I would also love a ISO-enter, but I just assume that is not really feasible, right?
Ignorant question incoming: Are there any boards that support ISO layout and are Alps? I'm 100% sure there are but none come to mind at the moment :(.
Post by: geniekid on Thu, 05 March 2015, 09:40:42
Post by: Applet on Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:03:11
Ignorant question incoming: Are there any boards that support ISO layout and are Alps? I'm 100% sure there are but none come to mind at the moment :(.Matias has ISO "alps" keyboards, and there are plenty of old boards. Personally I'm making my own custom 60% (no PCB). There have also been some talk of GON making the Nerd60 alps compatible here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63349.0) (I still hope for that :) ). But yes, the choices of ISO Alps boards is very limited.
Actually, this needs a 1.25 Shift, as well as a 1.75 Return, a 1.25 Tab (Row 3), and a Row 2 Esc. ;)The JD45 looks great :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9DD2Qui.jpg)
Yes, it supports Alps.
No, none of the keys pictured require stabilizers.
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:16:21
Ignorant question incoming: Are there any boards that support ISO layout and are Alps? I'm 100% sure there are but none come to mind at the moment :(.
I believe there are some Dell AT101s and Apple keyboards that are, but they're very uncommon. That abd when you do fund them, I believe the stabilizers and stem placement are inconsistent.
Anyways, ISO is a fools errand. You always have a small handful crying for it and almost no one bud it. In this case, it would drive up the price for no real reason and make targets even harder to hit.
Post by: Badwrench on Thu, 05 March 2015, 18:06:48
I think it looks good, but no possibility to get a 1.25 shift for ISO-users? :) I understand if ISO-users are not prioritized, especially if it is considered a Infinity mod kid, since it doesn't even have ISO-support. I would also love a ISO-enter, but I just assume that is not really feasible, right?
Actually, this needs a 1.25 Shift, as well as a 1.75 Return, a 1.25 Tab (Row 3), and a Row 2 Esc. ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9DD2Qui.jpg)
Yes, it supports Alps.
No, none of the keys pictured require stabilizers.
So, would this work? I switched the Return for enter and the full spelling of Function for Fn as SP doesn't have legends for either.
[attach=1]
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 05 March 2015, 18:31:55
Looks like a winner to me. :)I think it looks good, but no possibility to get a 1.25 shift for ISO-users? :) I understand if ISO-users are not prioritized, especially if it is considered a Infinity mod kid, since it doesn't even have ISO-support. I would also love a ISO-enter, but I just assume that is not really feasible, right?
Actually, this needs a 1.25 Shift, as well as a 1.75 Return, a 1.25 Tab (Row 3), and a Row 2 Esc. ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9DD2Qui.jpg)
Yes, it supports Alps.
No, none of the keys pictured require stabilizers.
So, would this work? I switched the Return for enter and the full spelling of Function for Fn as SP doesn't have legends for either.
(Attachment Link)
Post by: geniekid on Thu, 05 March 2015, 19:08:41
Post by: Badwrench on Thu, 05 March 2015, 19:24:08
Thanks. What were you planning for the spacebars?Looks like a winner to me. :)I think it looks good, but no possibility to get a 1.25 shift for ISO-users? :) I understand if ISO-users are not prioritized, especially if it is considered a Infinity mod kid, since it doesn't even have ISO-support. I would also love a ISO-enter, but I just assume that is not really feasible, right?
Actually, this needs a 1.25 Shift, as well as a 1.75 Return, a 1.25 Tab (Row 3), and a Row 2 Esc. ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9DD2Qui.jpg)
Yes, it supports Alps.
No, none of the keys pictured require stabilizers.
So, would this work? I switched the Return for enter and the full spelling of Function for Fn as SP doesn't have legends for either.
(Attachment Link)
Looks good to me, but of course price is a consideration!
Yeah, it's gonna be expensive. I just got tentative pricing back on the previous kit:
25 sets $80.25 per set
50 sets $57.78 per set
75 sets $50.29 per set
100 sets $46.55 per set
Adding the 4 keys will add a few dollars to that, but removing the space bars will drop it back down a bit. Note that the prices above would include 2 spacebars in one common color (still to be decided). Also, this price does not include shipping to me/tax/paypal fees/shipping to you. I would do the buy as follows:
Infinity/color kit
6.25x space bar in color x
6.25x space bar in color y
6x space bar in color x
6x space bar in color y
Post by: geniekid on Thu, 05 March 2015, 19:36:24
My personal opinion is to exclude spacebars altogether since SP/PMK sells DSA spacebars separately (http://keyshop.pimpmykeyboard.com/products/blank-key-packs/blank-key-packs-iso-enter-and-dsa-spacebar).
Also, while I love Geekhack I think all the GH specific keys could be dropped as well or made into a separate kit (which I would buy for sure).
The above is my opinion and I don't speak for anyone else.
Post by: mr.squishy on Thu, 05 March 2015, 19:45:21
Post by: Badwrench on Thu, 05 March 2015, 19:49:35
That is a hard price to swallow.
My personal opinion is to exclude spacebars altogether since SP/PMK sells DSA spacebars separately (http://keyshop.pimpmykeyboard.com/products/blank-key-packs/blank-key-packs-iso-enter-and-dsa-spacebar).
Also, while I love Geekhack I think all the GH specific keys could be dropped as well or made into a separate kit (which I would buy for sure).
The above is my opinion and I don't speak for anyone else.
Yeah, I am planning on removing the spacebars. As far as the GH keys, I want to get more feedback before trimming what was originally the starting point (a GH color pack).
This keyset has grown a lot larger and more expensive than it originally promised and with the price recently given I'm going to have to back out. I'd love to support this but I don't have that type of money. I do wish you luck though and I hope you can find a way to make this set succeed!
No worries, I appreciate the support. I will continue to refine this and hopefully make some compromises that appeal to more people and help get the final design to a more attractive price point.
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 06 March 2015, 19:19:20
There are a few blank keys in the mockup and I would like feedback from the community on what designs should go in each. Nubbinator suggested doing something similar the the "GH60" logo, but different for this set. I am also looking for sponsors that would like to "purchase" a logo for the set ($25 for a custom logo and should be an SVG file). PM me if you are interested or just post here if you want to share.
Here is the current mockup:
[attachimg=1]
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 06 March 2015, 19:41:55
I still wonder if we should add a one unit \| key for the top row since I know that can be a hard cap to find otherwise. And probably keep a blue Esc, just in case someone wants symmetry. Otherwise I think the huge slimming down is a good thing.
We might even be able to drop two more keys if we can agree on a new legend for Ctrl and Alt and people are willing to sponsor them....or if we can reuse something from another buy.
For the windows key, since it's for Alps, something like this could be cool:
(http://www.downloadclipart.net/medium/10863-black-and-white-mountain-clip-art.png)
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 06 March 2015, 20:43:28
I'm still down to sponsor a legend at $25 for this. It'd be kind of hypocritical of me not to after the PM.
I still wonder if we should add a one unit \| key for the top row since I know that can be a hard cap to find otherwise. And probably keep a blue Esc, just in case someone wants symmetry. Otherwise I think the huge slimming down is a good thing.
We might even be able to drop two more keys if we can agree on a new legend for Ctrl and Alt and people are willing to sponsor them....or if we can reuse something from another buy.
For the windows key, since it's for Alps, something like this could be cool:Show Image(http://www.downloadclipart.net/medium/10863-black-and-white-mountain-clip-art.png)
Not at all buddy, I really like your ideas. I completely forgot to put the 1x R4 \| key. I will add that and the blue esc. I think we should keep the one off-color key though. I like the pop of color.
As for your design, that is awesome. It has a nice clean design to it.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 06 March 2015, 20:58:36
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 06 March 2015, 21:02:36
If you'll do a Glider for the OS (or context menu) key instead of a blank, I'll pay for the legend. I can send you an SVG.
Do we know who owns the glider legend at SP? We might be able to use it for free instead of cutting a new one if we can figure out who owns it.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 06 March 2015, 21:06:19
I didn't know it had been done as a double shot. I think it was done as a dyesub maybe?If you'll do a Glider for the OS (or context menu) key instead of a blank, I'll pay for the legend. I can send you an SVG.
Do we know who owns the glider legend at SP? We might be able to use it for free instead of cutting a new one if we can figure out who owns it.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 06 March 2015, 21:09:14
I didn't know it had been done as a double shot. I think it was done as a dyesub maybe?If you'll do a Glider for the OS (or context menu) key instead of a blank, I'll pay for the legend. I can send you an SVG.
Do we know who owns the glider legend at SP? We might be able to use it for free instead of cutting a new one if we can figure out who owns it.
The 2013 crap bags had several doubleshot gliders
More
(http://i.imgur.com/WRKIAsR.jpg)
so I think they should still have the legend if the owner is willing to let others use it. If you want a more stylized glider, that would definitely need to be cut.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 06 March 2015, 21:12:12
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 06 March 2015, 21:15:19
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 06 March 2015, 23:22:25
[attachimg=1]
I removed the RCU esc key, it just adds too much to the cost. I am really trying to trim this one down.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 06 March 2015, 23:24:53
(http://www.drivecrash.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/500px-Alps_Electric_old_logo.svg_-200x120.png)
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 06 March 2015, 23:27:14
Yeah, unless we can find the owner of that legend, it will need the cutting fee even if we know the owner in another profile.
(Attachment Link)
I removed the RCU esc key, it just adds too much to the cost. I am really trying to trim this one down.
That looks beyond awesome.
I'd love to see this logo:Show Image(http://www.drivecrash.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/500px-Alps_Electric_old_logo.svg_-200x120.png)
Can they do that legend or is it too detailed? I thought about that too, but didn't know if it would work.
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 06 March 2015, 23:29:43
Yeah, unless we can find the owner of that legend, it will need the cutting fee even if we know the owner in another profile.
(Attachment Link)
I removed the RCU esc key, it just adds too much to the cost. I am really trying to trim this one down.
That looks beyond awesome.I'd love to see this logo:Show Image(http://www.drivecrash.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/500px-Alps_Electric_old_logo.svg_-200x120.png)
Can they do that legend or is it too detailed? I thought about that too, but didn't know if it would work.
Thanks, I think it looks pretty sharp. I like the logo CPT posted but was curious about the complexity as well. No harm in asking, but if it is doable, my guess is on one of the 1.5x mods.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 06 March 2015, 23:30:03
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 06 March 2015, 23:35:44
Yeah, I don't mind at all paying for the glider legend. I'll send you an SVG of what I have for one.
You can hold it for now. I am going to add a list of contributors to the op, and if we get enough buyers to get this through, then I will get a hold of you and figure things out from there.
Also, do you like the placement, or would you rather have it on a matching pair in the "hacker" set of mods? Oh, and what does this key actually represent?
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 06 March 2015, 23:38:05
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 06 March 2015, 23:41:04
Info on the history of the Glider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_(Conway's_Life))
I knew it looked familiar, thanks. Perfect key for this set.
Post by: geniekid on Sat, 07 March 2015, 18:17:42
Post by: zombimuncha on Sun, 08 March 2015, 10:05:03
Post by: rsadek on Mon, 09 March 2015, 08:25:55
I didn't know it had been done as a double shot. I think it was done as a dyesub maybe?If you'll do a Glider for the OS (or context menu) key instead of a blank, I'll pay for the legend. I can send you an SVG.
Do we know who owns the glider legend at SP? We might be able to use it for free instead of cutting a new one if we can figure out who owns it.
The 2013 crap bags had several doubleshot glidersMoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/WRKIAsR.jpg)
I've been dreaming of that apple key since nubbinator posted it :eek:
How can I get my hands on one?
Post by: Badwrench on Thu, 12 March 2015, 13:12:41
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=0726bc9e0a&view=fimg&th=14c07473750a2b0b&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=ii_i74a3a3t0_14c0747217b9d6bc&attbid=ANGjdJ9XX_v_DuwwuvxKghwNk9Qtq-KL2R91SXucNC8N-jNQ7Q438TSiZO1ek22xfsa8h3uTQ1LGWlnaTZmrrJx8VAXYGVMCO6Nb7hikrsd3vo7LrlfedyaKAgOTKb8&sz=w1126-h406&ats=1426183666138&rm=14c07473750a2b0b&zw&atsh=1)
Pricing is below:
25 sets $56.09 per set
50 sets $40.26 per set
75 sets $34.98 per set
100 sets $32.34 per set
Note that this is a starting point before adding the custom logos which have yet to be completely determined. This also does not include shipping to me/tax/paypal fees/shipping to you.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 12 March 2015, 13:41:54
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 12 March 2015, 13:42:19
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 12 March 2015, 17:12:58
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 12 March 2015, 17:50:08
I can't see the picture you just posted badwrench :(. I'm going to assume that the kit looks like the one in the OP. I'm conflicted about the pricing. CMYK and the purple mods from GMK was about $60 I think. So it's about the same but we're getting, in my opinion, not as good caps. Not that I'm against this buy just saying I wish it were a little less...or GMK ABS doubleshots.You have to look at that 75 tier. That's the number to set as MOQ when the buy starts. If it doesn't hit that, no point in doing it.
Post by: geniekid on Thu, 12 March 2015, 18:39:10
Post by: Badwrench on Thu, 12 March 2015, 19:10:27
I can't see the picture you just posted badwrench :(. I'm going to assume that the kit looks like the one in the OP. I'm conflicted about the pricing. CMYK and the purple mods from GMK was about $60 I think. So it's about the same but we're getting, in my opinion, not as good caps. Not that I'm against this buy just saying I wish it were a little less...or GMK ABS doubleshots.
Hmm, linking it directly.
[attach=1]
I am with JD about the pricing as well. I know it doesn't feel like we are getting much for the $$, but if you compare it to a standard SP mx set, it is roughly a 15% to 20% premium. So far, that is the price to play with Alps.
I am hopeful that the second round of Infinity yields more Alps users so that we can actually attain the higher MOQ. I am planning on putting together a google sheet similar to what enigcoder used for his buy that will act similar to Massdrops technique - allowing people to commit to purchasing at a certain MOQ, and once that number is reached, I will collect and get moving.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 12 March 2015, 19:22:35
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 12 March 2015, 19:23:58
Post by: geniekid on Thu, 12 March 2015, 19:41:02
Post by: njbair on Sat, 14 March 2015, 01:49:40
Post by: Badwrench on Sat, 14 March 2015, 02:15:40
So I just got on the Infinity train with this most recent Massdrop, and one of the two I ordered will have Matias Quiet Pros in the Hacker layout. This will be my first ALPS board. I'm already thinking about replacing the DSA black blanks that are coming with it. But if I were to pick up this set, what would I use to match the DCS profile for all the alphas & spacebar?
The space bar is still an issue, but there are a couple options. First is to get a black or white one from Matias. Their space bars are very close to DCS profile but with a more rounded front edge. The other option is to add a DSA spacebar to this buy (maybe as a completely separate MOQ?) done in either beige or grey to match the common sets of alphas or in the BX so that it at least matches the mods.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 14 March 2015, 12:22:35
So I just got on the Infinity train with this most recent Massdrop, and one of the two I ordered will have Matias Quiet Pros in the Hacker layout. This will be my first ALPS board. I'm already thinking about replacing the DSA black blanks that are coming with it. But if I were to pick up this set, what would I use to match the DCS profile for all the alphas & spacebar?
The space bar is still an issue, but there are a couple options. First is to get a black or white one from Matias. Their space bars are very close to DCS profile but with a more rounded front edge. The other option is to add a DSA spacebar to this buy (maybe as a completely separate MOQ?) done in either beige or grey to match the common sets of alphas or in the BX so that it at least matches the mods.
But what about Alphas? Are you basically saying the only option is to buy a sacrificial Matias board?
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 14 March 2015, 13:06:34
Post by: rsadek on Sat, 14 March 2015, 13:37:53
So I just got on the Infinity train with this most recent Massdrop, and one of the two I ordered will have Matias Quiet Pros in the Hacker layout. This will be my first ALPS board. I'm already thinking about replacing the DSA black blanks that are coming with it. But if I were to pick up this set, what would I use to match the DCS profile for all the alphas & spacebar?
The space bar is still an issue, but there are a couple options. First is to get a black or white one from Matias. Their space bars are very close to DCS profile but with a more rounded front edge. The other option is to add a DSA spacebar to this buy (maybe as a completely separate MOQ?) done in either beige or grey to match the common sets of alphas or in the BX so that it at least matches the mods.
But what about Alphas? Are you basically saying the only option is to buy a sacrificial Matias board?
Matias sells keycaps alone, no need to sacrifice a board. I believe you have to email them, bc it's not on the site yet. From another thread the answer was to email barb@matias.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 14 March 2015, 16:22:12
Matias sells keycaps alone
This was the missing piece of the puzzle in my understanding.
So then to summarize, this "mod pack" will complement an existing full ALPS keyset, namely the non-standard bottom row of the Infinity keyboard. The only remaining question mark is getting a 6U ALPS spacebar in the DCS profile (or settling for a DSA spacebar). Did I get it right?
FWIW, as a Matias newbie who's here because of the Infinity, I think the key to this set's success will be to heavily promote the set on the Massdrop discussion page, and make sure anyone in the same boat as me knows how this set is supposed to work.
Anyway, count me in. I'm going to look into getting a full set of caps from Matias this week.
Post by: FrostyToast on Sat, 14 March 2015, 16:29:29
They don't have those right now if I recall.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 14 March 2015, 16:45:40
Is there any way to fund molds for 7x and 6.25x ALPS spacebars in DCS?
They don't have those right now if I recall.
I doubt it. Mold tooling is incredibly expensive. I think the best bet for custom spacebars will be to wait until Matias starts selling their own custom caps online.
Post by: rsadek on Sat, 14 March 2015, 19:12:10
Matias sells keycaps aloneAnyway, count me in. I'm going to look into getting a full set of caps from Matias this week.
Cool. Could you report back once you order from Matias? It might interest the thread to know what's involved, available options, if we have the correct contact person, etc.
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 14 March 2015, 19:18:17
Is there any way to fund molds for 7x and 6.25x ALPS spacebars in DCS?
They don't have those right now if I recall.
Got an extra $10,000 lying around?
Post by: njbair on Sun, 15 March 2015, 21:50:33
Matias sells keycaps aloneAnyway, count me in. I'm going to look into getting a full set of caps from Matias this week.
Cool. Could you report back once you order from Matias? It might interest the thread to know what's involved, available options, if we have the correct contact person, etc.
So last night at about 6 p.m. I sent an email to barb@matias (dot ca) asking about ordering a full set of keycaps. Then around 11 p.m. I got a reply from Steve asking for some clarification on my order and he wanted to know my Zip code to calculate shipping. So I replied with the details he asked for. Tonight I checked my email and saw a reply from Steve with ordering instructions. My total cost would be $50 for the full set of whites with black printed legends + $15 shipping = US$65.
Here's the really fun part. My instructions for placing the order were to go to Matias.ca and place an order for (65) $1 armor clip anchors, and to put "Matias keycaps as per Steve" in the order memo line. So I did this and checked out with PayPal. This was definitely the strangest checkout experience of my life, but hey, I'm getting my keycaps so whatever!
Also of possible interest, Steve told me they sell blank white caps individually:
- US$1.00 each for 1x1
- US$2.00 each for bigger than 1x1
- US$5.00 each for spacebar
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 15 March 2015, 22:16:13
Is there any way to fund molds for 7x and 6.25x ALPS spacebars in DCS?
They don't have those right now if I recall.
Got an extra $10,000 lying around?
Well considering the amount of funding 7Bit gathers to make molds through his buys it wouldn't be impossible to gather funds with a GB.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 15 March 2015, 22:23:42
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 15 March 2015, 22:35:11
No, it's not impossible. But no one here wants to run a keycap group buy on the scale that 7bit does. And, unfortunately for us, Alps is a niche within a niche, so there wouldn't be that broad appeal required for an epic scale group buy to fund a new mold. If you think of it this way, the max number of orders for an Alps set would likely be around 100 orders at the outside, so divide whatever a spacebar mold costs ($8000?) by that number, and you would need to add $80 to everyone's order to fund a mold. :(Is there any way to fund molds for 7x and 6.25x ALPS spacebars in DCS?
They don't have those right now if I recall.
Got an extra $10,000 lying around?
Well considering the amount of funding 7Bit gathers to make molds through his buys it wouldn't be impossible to gather funds with a GB.
I'm not trying to be a pessimist, just a realist.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 15 March 2015, 22:39:32
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 15 March 2015, 22:43:24
Post by: njbair on Sat, 21 March 2015, 20:01:03
Post by: Badwrench on Sat, 21 March 2015, 23:27:06
Is this idea still alive?Yup. Just a couple small details to iron out before I start the buy.
Post by: Touch_It on Sun, 22 March 2015, 00:20:53
Thx in advance. It is a lot to try to read on my phone.
Post by: zombimuncha on Sun, 22 March 2015, 16:17:41
Maybe a dumb question but would these work for s Dell at101w?
Thx in advance. It is a lot to try to read on my phone.
Not a dumb question. Legacy Alps keyboards are only slightly more complicated than rocket science.
I think you should be ok for the key sizes. Please look closely at the render and compare with your keyboard!
Since these are coming from SP, they'll have cruciform (cherry mx style) mounts for the stabilizers. This means that for keyboards with standard Alps stabilizers like yours, you'll need to get some compatible balance bars to be able to attach the stabilized keys to the stabilizers clips on your keyboard. Hopefully these will be available from Matias soon, or maybe they're one of the "small details" Badwrench is working on.
My understanding is that Infinity users will not have this problem with the stabs, but I'll be happy to be corrected as I haven't really been following the Infinity keyboard project.
In other news - it was mentioned in another thread that Matias is working on getting some Alps DCS doubleshot sets to carry in-stock. If this works out as planned there will be no need to mix and match different profiles on the same keyboard with this set. Simply get a black or white doubleshot set from Matias and add this mod pack, and you're golden. Everything matches ferpectly :thumb:
edit: except for weird keys like "bigass enter" etc
Post by: Badwrench on Wed, 25 March 2015, 19:52:07
[attachimg=1]
There was very little feedback on other logos, so I decided to add a pair of each of the donated logos to each layout. :thumb: This way each user can decide how they want them paired.
Post by: ideus on Wed, 25 March 2015, 20:19:55
Post by: Badwrench on Wed, 25 March 2015, 20:41:45
Are those suppose to be mountains profiles?
Yup - Alps. :p
See the op for a higher res. image.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 25 March 2015, 20:52:33
Post by: ideus on Wed, 25 March 2015, 21:06:43
Are those suppose to be mountains profiles?
Yup - Alps. :p
See the op for a higher res. image.
I am sure you have given them enough thought, but I may suggest something more in the line of the image bellow:
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 25 March 2015, 21:43:35
Are those suppose to be mountains profiles?
Yup - Alps. :p
See the op for a higher res. image.
I am sure you have given them enough thought, but I may suggest something more in the line of the image bellow:
I like mine better...plus, I'm paying for the legend. Open for suggestions, but really do not like that one.
Post by: Touch_It on Wed, 25 March 2015, 22:07:40
Post by: Badwrench on Wed, 25 March 2015, 22:28:01
Do you have a solid idea on price? I'm modifying s Dell board with Matias switches and aek keycaps.
No price yet. I will be submitting this to SP tonight and will start the GB when I get pricing.
Post by: ideus on Wed, 25 March 2015, 22:32:57
Looking great. I'm looking forward to this.Are those suppose to be mountains profiles?
Yup - Alps. :p
See the op for a higher res. image.
I am sure you have given them enough thought, but I may suggest something more in the line of the image bellow:
I like mine better...plus, I'm paying for the legend. Open for suggestions, but really do not like that one.
Of course: It's your call entirely; good luck with your GB.
Post by: zombimuncha on Thu, 26 March 2015, 01:58:11
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 26 March 2015, 12:27:41
Ok guys and gals, here is my Final render of the Infinity kit:
(Attachment Link)
There was very little feedback on other logos, so I decided to add a pair of each of the donated logos to each layout. :thumb: This way each user can decide how they want them paired.
Pretty darn close. For the WKL layout, I'd rather have the Alt keys restored, and have one of each logo on the 1u keys.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 26 March 2015, 12:30:40
Pretty darn close. For the WKL layout, I'd rather have the Alt keys restored, and have one of each logo on the 1u keys.
By WKL you're referring to the 1.5U Ctrl/Alt keys shown in the Hacker row in the mockup? If so, I agree that it would be nice to have Alt legends instead of (or in addition to) Alps logos as well.
EDIT: To make the Hacker layout match the way the Standard layout is done, the Alps logo keys should be 1U and the 1.5U keys should have Alt legends.
EDIT 2: Like this:
[attachimg=1]
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 26 March 2015, 12:54:26
Pretty darn close. For the WKL layout, I'd rather have the Alt keys restored, and have one of each logo on the 1u keys.
By WKL you're referring to the 1.5U Ctrl/Alt keys shown in the Hacker row in the mockup? If so, I agree that it would be nice to have Alt legends instead of (or in addition to) Alps logos as well.
EDIT: To make the Hacker layout match the way the Standard layout is done, the Alps logo keys should be 1U and the 1.5U keys should have Alt legends.
EDIT 2: Like this:
(Attachment Link)
Drop that extra star and I think that's perfect. For some reason the Alps instead of Alt didn't click for me.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 26 March 2015, 13:02:03
Post by: zombimuncha on Thu, 26 March 2015, 13:10:02
Other than that, njbair's render is basically perfect AFAIC.
I'll be using this in an office context, where the glider can be used to score geek-cred points and as a conversation starter for all kinds of topics-geeky. The mountain is pretty, fairly unique, and a bit more stealthy - less likely to start conversations, but if it ever does, you can be sure it'll be about glorious ALPS switches!
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 26 March 2015, 13:14:49
the glider can be used to score geek-cred points and as a conversation starter for all kinds of topics-geeky.
QFT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_%28Conway%27s_Life%29
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 26 March 2015, 13:24:34
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 26 March 2015, 13:27:11
I really don't give a **** about geek cred points. Or the fact that I had to look it up on Wikipedia. I just want something that doesn't look like someone doodled 5 dots on a keycap.
Don't make me come over there. :mad:
You would rather have a Windows logo and menu icon?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 26 March 2015, 13:34:29
Geometric shapes
Alps logo
Windows logo and menu icon
Meta/Super
I'd prefer any of these. Really not into either of the logos and I won't use them. I'll send them your way if the current designs go through :).
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 26 March 2015, 13:39:04
Blank caps
Geometric shapes
Alps logo
Windows logo and menu icon
Meta/Super
I'd prefer any of these. Really not into either of the logos and I won't use them. I'll send them your way if the current designs go through :).
You're either wi' me, or again' me. Don't get rekt, bro.
:P
Maybe badwrench can offer blanks as an option, for the
Post by: njbair on Thu, 26 March 2015, 14:40:19
[attachimg=1]
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 26 March 2015, 14:53:12
Mountains alone? I don't like them
Mountains in a circle? I'm ok with them
I'm ridiculous.
I still dislike that dot logo though
Post by: zombimuncha on Thu, 26 March 2015, 14:55:40
If I had to lose one of those legends it'd be the glider, but I'm still in no matter what legends end up on the winkeys.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 26 March 2015, 15:02:34
For some reason....
Mountains alone? I don't like them
Mountains in a circle? I'm ok with them
I'm ridiculous.
I still dislike that dot logo though
What if we put the grid back in there on the glider?
I like the circle alps now too. Looks great with the circle.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 26 March 2015, 15:05:59
What if we put the grid back in there on the glider?
I just want something that doesn't look like someone doodled 5 dots on a keycap.
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 26 March 2015, 15:11:21
Oh great I can see it now:
I would like a "Windeaux" key, spelled just like that. I think a lot of Louisiana French-Southern descent keyboardists would agree.
10/10 would buy.
Do you have any Cajun/creole heritage?
Here...I shrunk all the logos and put the Alps logo inside a circle to make it a little more geometric. I am actually OK with the logos on this one:
(Attachment Link)
This is najs. Berry najs.
The absence of true alt keys killed it for me. I don't usually whine about legends, but that really did bother me.
I'm also fine with whatever mountains you use.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 26 March 2015, 15:35:33
#FITEMEIRLWhat if we put the grid back in there on the glider?I just want something that doesn't look like someone doodled 5 dots on a keycap.
Post by: zombimuncha on Thu, 26 March 2015, 15:40:20
Post by: njbair on Thu, 26 March 2015, 16:04:03
Im still liking the Alps mountain in the circle, but... my understanding was that these are double shot legend that already exist at SP, so modifying or resizing them would not be possible. Am I wrong? Donny?
If I had to lose one of those legends it'd be the glider, but I'm still in no matter what legends end up on the winkeys.
AFAIK they do not exist but someone was going to donate the additional cost to make them happen. So really, that person would have to be OK with the change, for starters. Then obviously Badwrench would, as well.
I think it's the same story for the GOL Gliders...someone wants it so they are going to pay to make the doubleshot mold happen.
EDIT: Going back and reading, it's Nubs who wants to sponsor the Alps logo, and JD for the Glider.
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 26 March 2015, 16:14:15
Post by: njbair on Thu, 26 March 2015, 16:24:40
I'm ok with the new Alps mod. Someone may need to add it to the file though.
Thanks!!! Will do. I'll make it a nice SVG even.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:21:51
[attachimg=1]
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:43:41
Here is a revised mockup with a new glider legend:I like the original better. Thanks, though! CPT just isn't hacker enough. ;)
(Attachment Link)
Post by: rsadek on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:52:01
I prefer the Alps without the circle; prefer the gridded glider to the "dots" one. I was also ok w/ the star + Alps + glider even if it cost me an Alt. Finally my preference for Alps > Star > Alt > glider.
I get the homestar runner issue at work, but I think it won't look tacky w/ the blue. On the flip side, the glider could result in
Post by: njbair on Thu, 26 March 2015, 18:27:38
I'll also reiterate from my earlier post that I will support this set no matter what, because I want Alps group buys to succeed. Had I been around for the Delta Blue buy, I would have done the same there.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 26 March 2015, 18:31:04
Post by: njbair on Thu, 26 March 2015, 19:35:43
0/10 on the glider logos. Still buying the kit. Would still love to see blanks or *anything* but a Go/Tic Tac Toe/Glider logo.
Would one 1U blank and one 1.25U blank be enough? That way, whether you're OK with either the Alps logo or the Glider, you can use two of those and the one blank to cover all the extra bottom row keys. Or instead of blanks, use stars if that's what people prefer. But I think a single third-style key in each size would be enough.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 26 March 2015, 19:38:44
But seriously? Please don't change the icons and graphics based on just me. If you all are into the Glider logo, go with that. I'm just being picky. Like I said I'll back this no matter what.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 26 March 2015, 20:16:33
Yes, 1U and 1.25U would be fine :).
But seriously? Please don't change the icons and graphics based on just me. If you all are into the Glider logo, go with that. I'm just being picky. Like I said I'll back this no matter what.
Again, I don't really have any influence here.
That said, JD likes the non-grid, dotted version, and that's his baby, so it will probably stay that way. Nubs is sponsoring the Alps logo, and he's OK with the circle around it, and it seems that most people like it better. I'm OK with the star or blanks (I'd prefer blanks, I think you do too, CPT). So when Badwrench comes around I think we should propose a revision with the circle Alps logo, JD's original glider legends, replacing the 1U star with a 1U blank, and adding a 1.25U blank.
Any thoughts?
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 26 March 2015, 20:28:18
Sounds good to me. I'd definitely buy a set like that.Yes, 1U and 1.25U would be fine :).
But seriously? Please don't change the icons and graphics based on just me. If you all are into the Glider logo, go with that. I'm just being picky. Like I said I'll back this no matter what.
Again, I don't really have any influence here.
That said, JD likes the non-grid, dotted version, and that's his baby, so it will probably stay that way. Nubs is sponsoring the Alps logo, and he's OK with the circle around it, and it seems that most people like it better. I'm OK with the star or blanks (I'd prefer blanks, I think you do too, CPT). So when Badwrench comes around I think we should propose a revision with the circle Alps logo, JD's original glider legends, replacing the 1U star with a 1U blank, and adding a 1.25U blank.
Any thoughts?
Post by: Touch_It on Thu, 26 March 2015, 20:39:50
For some reason....
Mountains alone? I don't like them
Mountains in a circle? I'm ok with them
I'm ridiculous.
I still dislike that dot logo though
I agree with you completely. But then again I love the windows 8 start key icon while most hate it.
Post by: Badwrench on Thu, 26 March 2015, 21:25:49
Yes, 1U and 1.25U would be fine :).
But seriously? Please don't change the icons and graphics based on just me. If you all are into the Glider logo, go with that. I'm just being picky. Like I said I'll back this no matter what.
Again, I don't really have any influence here.
That said, JD likes the non-grid, dotted version, and that's his baby, so it will probably stay that way. Nubs is sponsoring the Alps logo, and he's OK with the circle around it, and it seems that most people like it better. I'm OK with the star or blanks (I'd prefer blanks, I think you do too, CPT). So when Badwrench comes around I think we should propose a revision with the circle Alps logo, JD's original glider legends, replacing the 1U star with a 1U blank, and adding a 1.25U blank.
Any thoughts?
Done :thumb:
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Touch_It on Thu, 26 March 2015, 21:39:39
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 26 March 2015, 21:45:33
Yes, 1U and 1.25U would be fine :).
But seriously? Please don't change the icons and graphics based on just me. If you all are into the Glider logo, go with that. I'm just being picky. Like I said I'll back this no matter what.
Again, I don't really have any influence here.
That said, JD likes the non-grid, dotted version, and that's his baby, so it will probably stay that way. Nubs is sponsoring the Alps logo, and he's OK with the circle around it, and it seems that most people like it better. I'm OK with the star or blanks (I'd prefer blanks, I think you do too, CPT). So when Badwrench comes around I think we should propose a revision with the circle Alps logo, JD's original glider legends, replacing the 1U star with a 1U blank, and adding a 1.25U blank.
Any thoughts?
Done :thumb:
(Attachment Link)
And thus it was born, and shall be made.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 26 March 2015, 21:47:22
Badwrench, I can send you an SVG of that Alps circle logo. PM me your email pls.
Post by: rsadek on Thu, 26 March 2015, 21:47:47
I feel it's worth mentioning that I have no influence here...just throwing out ideas.
I'll also reiterate from my earlier post that I will support this set no matter what, because I want Alps group buys to succeed. Had I been around for the Delta Blue buy, I would have done the same there.
Agreed 100%! Definitely buying the set. Wish I'd known to buy Delta Blues.
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 26 March 2015, 22:25:26
Awesome.
Badwrench, I can send you an SVG of that Alps circle logo. PM me your email pls.
If you want to work from an SVG, I have one on my desktop of it just PM me and I can e-mail it to you. If the fidelity is fine, no worries.
Post by: Touch_It on Thu, 26 March 2015, 22:35:38
I feel it's worth mentioning that I have no influence here...just throwing out ideas.
I'll also reiterate from my earlier post that I will support this set no matter what, because I want Alps group buys to succeed. Had I been around for the Delta Blue buy, I would have done the same there.
Agreed 100%! Definitely buying the set. Wish I'd known to buy Delta Blues.
Yeah, sad I missed it.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 March 2015, 01:20:30
Awesome.
Badwrench, I can send you an SVG of that Alps circle logo. PM me your email pls.
If you want to work from an SVG, I have one on my desktop of it just PM me and I can e-mail it to you. If the fidelity is fine, no worries.
That PNG was pretty good. I just did an image trace in Adobe Illustrator. I'm not worried about it, especially since the real limiting factor to detail is the doubleshot fabrication and the small size of the logo on the key.
Here is a decent-sized PNG I produced from the SVG, in case you're curious:
[attach=1]
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 27 March 2015, 07:52:16
1. Why no full-size right shift?
2. What's the deal with the dot/glider logo?
3. The Alps mountain logo is cool. Nice touch.
4. Just include enough mod keys so I don't have to use that dot/glider if I don't want to. If I cannot intuitively figure out why it's there, why is it there?
Regardless, I will support, accept, and love this set unconditionally, without judgment, from it's creation to completion. Thank you for your work.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 27 March 2015, 07:56:50
2. What's the deal with the dot/glider logo?
4. Just include enough mod keys so I don't have to use that dot/glider if I don't want to. If I cannot intuitively figure out why it's there, why is it there?
That's what I'm saying. I don't get the dot logo either. Something about it representing hacker culture? But I don't want Wikipedia telling me what symbology should represent to me. If you need Wiki to tell you how to feel about something, it's probably a bad symbol.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 08:15:05
1) It looks cool
2) I wanted it there
3) I'm paying for the legend
4) Others like it, too
If you don't want to use it, fine, there are blanks to fill that spot.
#HATERSGONNAHATE
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68887.0;attach=95342;image)
Post by: zombimuncha on Fri, 27 March 2015, 08:20:52
But I don't want Wikipedia telling me what symbology should represent to me. If you need Wiki to tell you how to feel about something, it's probably a bad symbol.
A strong point. I had to look it up on wikipedia (before that link was posted, incidentally) and liked what I read.
I also like how mysterious it is!
Does anybody out there hate blanks, and would prefer a diamond or circle instead? I plan on using two mountains and a glider anyway (despite what I said a couple pages ago - I think the circle around the mountain changed my mind), so I don't care either way.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 08:23:00
2. What's the deal with the dot/glider logo?
4. Just include enough mod keys so I don't have to use that dot/glider if I don't want to. If I cannot intuitively figure out why it's there, why is it there?
That's what I'm saying. I don't get the dot logo either. Something about it representing hacker culture? But I don't want Wikipedia telling me what symbology should represent to me. If you need Wiki to tell you how to feel about something, it's probably a bad symbol.
Your suggestion of the encircled Alps logo was the only other submission. Did you want to sponsor that legend, and include it instead of blanks? Is that logo copyrighted?
Post by: geniekid on Fri, 27 March 2015, 08:28:28
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 March 2015, 08:38:19
I imagine that the answers to these questions are answered somewhere in this thread, but I'm not in a literary mood.This set is specifically for Infinity boards which do not have a full size right shift.
1. Why no full-size right shift?
2. What's the deal with the dot/glider logo?
3. The Alps mountain logo is cool. Nice touch.
4. Just include enough mod keys so I don't have to use that dot/glider if I don't want to. If I cannot intuitively figure out why it's there, why is it there?
Regardless, I will support, accept, and love this set unconditionally, without judgment, from it's creation to completion. Thank you for your work.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 27 March 2015, 08:40:29
Your suggestion of the encircled Alps logo was the only other submission. Did you want to sponsor that legend, and include it instead of blanks? Is that logo copyrighted?
I'd rather see the stars, diamonds, and geometric shapes honestly.
Edit: I definitely deserve no credit for that by the way. That was all njbair who came up with that :). Thanks for all the mockups njbair!
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:11:55
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:15:41
Your suggestion of the encircled Alps logo was the only other submission. Did you want to sponsor that legend, and include it instead of blanks? Is that logo copyrighted?
I'd rather see the stars, diamonds, and geometric shapes honestly.
Edit: I definitely deserve no credit for that by the way. That was all njbair who came up with that :). Thanks for all the mockups njbair!
Just trying to help find a compromise between mountains and geometric legends. The easiest way I know to make something geometric is to put it inside a geometric shape! Besides, it was pretty simple to do in Photoshop. I've got to justify my Adobe CC subscription somehow...
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:30:43
The Glider is there because:
1) It looks cool
2) I wanted it there
3) I'm paying for the legend
4) Others like it, too
If you don't want to use it, fine, there are blanks to fill that spot.
#HATERSGONNAHATEShow Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68887.0;attach=95342;image)
Don't hate the playa, hate the game.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:35:46
What do you plan on using these keycaps with? Infinity keyboards for the most part? hasu's 60% PCB?
If you are using a Hacker layout Infinity, what do you use for a 6u spacebar? Is SP capable of making those? Are they DSA-only? What about 6.25u in DCS or DSA?
Is anyone interested in a new plate? I need to design a plate for my hasu 60% PCB, and I'm trying to decide which layout to use. I think others buying that PCB will want a plate, as well.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:38:35
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:41:54
I'm probably going to put these on Hasu's 60% PCB or a Filco Zero. I definitely would take a plate. For the Hasu 60% PCB though.
Yeah, that's what I plan on designing the plate for. I will probably go with Infinity layout options, 1-1 backspace, 1.75-1 right shift, but I don't know whether to make it in standard 1.25-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.25 or Hacker 1.5-1-1.5-6-1.5-1-1-1.5 bottom row. Depends on which spacebars we can get in Alps, I guess.
I could go standard ANSI like a Poker layout, if Badwrench wants to include a 2.75u right shift.
Post by: zombimuncha on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:43:15
I didn't notice the right shift was split :(
ZOMG! Me too! ROFL.
um...
I'm still in.
I just re-read (most) of the thread again, and every couple of pages someone asks about this and nobody replies.
I plan on using this on the upcoming KBP V80MTS-c, so I'd love it if a standard 2.75u right shift was added.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:49:45
Depends on which spacebars we can get in Alps, I guess.
I think you've got the right idea. I thought Matias was supposed to have caps out soon but they still haven't dropped on their site. Just on Keyboardco.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:52:34
So, I think I have some related questions.
What do you plan on using these keycaps with? Infinity keyboards for the most part? hasu's 60% PCB?
If you are using a Hacker layout Infinity, what do you use for a 6u spacebar? Is SP capable of making those? Are they DSA-only? What about 6.25u in DCS or DSA?
Is anyone interested in a new plate? I need to design a plate for my hasu 60% PCB, and I'm trying to decide which layout to use. I think others buying that PCB will want a plate, as well.
I'm planning on using this for an Infinity Hacker layout. I don't have it yet, I'm still waiting for shipping.
AFAIK, Signature Plastics can only make a 6U spacebar in DSA. There is currently an active thread in the Matias vendor forum where Matias is looking for input on what types/layouts of keycaps Alps users would be interested in. I've voiced my desire for a 6U spacebar in a Cherry profile, along with other Infinity-specific keys. A few others have agreed.
Worst case scenario, I could always use the black DSA spacebar that's shipping with my Infinity. Or I suppose I could assemble it without the plate in the Standard layout, since the PCB supports both, then put it in a TEX case or something.
I'm really not sure what a DSA spacebar would look like on a board where everything else is OEM/Cherry profile, but it can't be too much weirder than a flipped spacebar, which I usually use anyway. Maybe we can get a separate group buy together for 6U DSA spacebars.
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:54:51
I haven't checked to see if the orion v2 supports short right shift.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:55:06
Or I suppose I could assemble it without the plate in the Standard layout, since the PCB supports both, then put it in a TEX case or something.
Alps require a plate, though, where MX do not. That's why I need to get some kind of consensus if we want to get some plates made. One-offs are expensive. :)
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:58:42
I didn't notice the right shift was split :(
ZOMG! Me too! ROFL.
um...
I'm still in.
I just re-read (most) of the thread again, and every couple of pages someone asks about this and nobody replies.
I plan on using this on the upcoming KBP V80MTS-c, so I'd love it if a standard 2.75u right shift was added.
I'm probably going to put these on Hasu's 60% PCB or a Filco Zero. I definitely would take a plate. For the Hasu 60% PCB though.
Yeah, that's what I plan on designing the plate for. I will probably go with Infinity layout options, 1-1 backspace, 1.75-1 right shift, but I don't know whether to make it in standard 1.25-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.25 or Hacker 1.5-1-1.5-6-1.5-1-1-1.5 bottom row. Depends on which spacebars we can get in Alps, I guess.
I could go standard ANSI like a Poker layout, if Badwrench wants to include a 2.75u right shift.
I didn't notice the right shift was split :(
Q: How many keys does any group buy set need to be perfect?
A: Just one or two more.
That said, is a full-size shift all that's needed to provide support for a truly standard 60% ANSI layout? Because if so that's really worth considering.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:01:56
Or I suppose I could assemble it without the plate in the Standard layout, since the PCB supports both, then put it in a TEX case or something.
Alps require a plate, though, where MX do not. That's why I need to get some kind of consensus if we want to get some plates made. One-offs are expensive. :)
I didn't realize Apls require a plate. That changes things.
Still, I'd rather pursue a GB for a 6U spacebar (or a full alpha set which includes one) than a special plate. A new plate just further fragments the Infinity market.
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:03:11
I didn't notice the right shift was split :(
ZOMG! Me too! ROFL.
um...
I'm still in.
I just re-read (most) of the thread again, and every couple of pages someone asks about this and nobody replies.
I plan on using this on the upcoming KBP V80MTS-c, so I'd love it if a standard 2.75u right shift was added.I'm probably going to put these on Hasu's 60% PCB or a Filco Zero. I definitely would take a plate. For the Hasu 60% PCB though.
Yeah, that's what I plan on designing the plate for. I will probably go with Infinity layout options, 1-1 backspace, 1.75-1 right shift, but I don't know whether to make it in standard 1.25-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.25 or Hacker 1.5-1-1.5-6-1.5-1-1-1.5 bottom row. Depends on which spacebars we can get in Alps, I guess.
I could go standard ANSI like a Poker layout, if Badwrench wants to include a 2.75u right shift.I didn't notice the right shift was split :(
Q: How many keys does any group buy set need to be perfect?
A: Just one or two more.
That said, is a full-size shift all that's needed to provide support for a truly standard 60% ANSI layout? Because if so that's really worth considering.
I won't complain regardless but I believe that the right shift is the only missing key in this case. For me it does mean the difference between a purchase or non purchase, but I'm just 1 person.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:04:27
Q: How many keys does any group buy set need to be perfect?
A: Just one or two more.
That said, is a full-size shift all that's needed to provide support for a truly standard 60% ANSI layout? Because if so that's really worth considering.
This is a good point. Feature creep can be the death of any group buy/interest check. However, it's good to discuss these things, especially while this is still in interest check.
My informed opinion is that as far as key sizes go, this set needs to include both the Infinity Hacker layout, as well as standard ANSI.
Now, my question for Badwrench and others is this: Do you know if the stabilizer stem mounts that these support will even work with other keyboards, such as the KB Paradise with Matias switches? Because if not, there is no point in adding those keys. Or maybe a new plate needs to be made to go with the keycaps, in order to use different stabilizers.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:13:32
Q: How many keys does any group buy set need to be perfect?
A: Just one or two more.
That said, is a full-size shift all that's needed to provide support for a truly standard 60% ANSI layout? Because if so that's really worth considering.
This is a good point. Feature creep can be the death of any group buy/interest check. However, it's good to discuss these things, especially while this is still in interest check.
My informed opinion is that as far as key sizes go, this set needs to include both the Infinity Hacker layout, as well as standard ANSI.
Now, my question for Badwrench and others is this: Do you know if the stabilizer stem mounts that these support will even work with other keyboards, such as the KB Paradise with Matias switches? Because if not, there is no point in adding those keys. Or maybe a new plate needs to be made to go with the keycaps, in order to use different stabilizers.
I honestly don't even know what kind of stabs come with the Infinity. Is there still no standard stabilizer setup for Matias Alps keys? I guess I'd assumed the whole Alps stabilizer situation had...stabilized?
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:17:44
Some companies like SP did use them a while back and still do.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:22:14
I didn't notice the right shift was split :(
ZOMG! Me too! ROFL.
um...
I'm still in.
I just re-read (most) of the thread again, and every couple of pages someone asks about this and nobody replies.
I plan on using this on the upcoming KBP V80MTS-c, so I'd love it if a standard 2.75u right shift was added.
This set is specifically for Infinity boards which do not have a full size right shift.
Post by: zombimuncha on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:41:20
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65159.msg1524388#msg1524388
Standard Alps. V80-MTS should be similar. No idea about the Infinity.
Alps balance bars are thinner than MX, meaning that if you can get a balance bar the right shape to hit the inserts on the DCS cap, and the same thickness as standard Alps balance bars, it will be thin enough for the inserts, and fit perfectly on the clips. I believe Matias has these, either in stock or coming soon.
Edit: here's a better set of pics of the V60.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61966.msg1525416#msg1525416
Looks like they've done the same thing as Matias boards, where the spacebar uses MX/Costar stabs and the smaller keys use Alps stabs.
Post by: zombimuncha on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:31:03
This set is specifically for Infinity boards which do not have a full size right shift.
Copy that.
I'm still in.
I think I can survive having two black shift keys next to my pretty blue mods :-)
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:39:49
Stabilized SP Alps keycaps only work on
a. the Infinity board
b. Certain very cheap keyboards from the 90s, for instance from Chicony, or a few other OEMs, all of which have terrible cases and pad printed ABS keycaps. Nearly all of those use a “bigass” enter key with some totally wacky stabilizer system for it, so it’s basically impossible to get full replacement keycap sets for them, and really not worth worrying too much about IMO.
c. Matias’s upcoming 60%-with-extra-wide-bottom-row keyboard (which should support keycaps with either type of stabilizer inserts).
Any other Alps keyboard you have, e.g. Apple AEK, Dell AT101, Northgate Omnikey, etc., or any other Matias board, or the V60, etc. etc., will not support SP’s stabilized keycaps.
This set is only worrying about case (a) above, but might also be useful for people in the (b) and (c) buckets. For everyone else, this set won’t work for you, whether or not it includes a 2.75u right shift.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:43:25
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:43:45
Listen everyone:
Stabilized SP Alps keycaps only work on
a. the Infinity board
b. Certain very cheap keyboards from the 90s, for instance from Chicony, or a few other OEMs, all of which have terrible cases and pad printed ABS keycaps. Nearly all of those use a “bigass” enter key with some totally wacky stabilizer system for it, so it’s basically impossible to get full replacement keycap sets for them, and really not worth worrying too much about IMO.
c. Matias’s upcoming 60%-with-extra-wide-bottom-row keyboard (which should support keycaps with either type of stabilizer inserts).
Any other Alps keyboard you have, e.g. Apple AEK, Dell AT101, Northgate Omnikey, etc., or any other Matias board, or the V60, etc. etc., will not support SP’s stabilized keycaps.
This set is only worrying about case (a) above. For everyone else, this set won’t work for you, whether or not it includes a 2.75u right shift.
Do we have pictures of what the bottom of SP ALPS caps look like?
What are the specific reasons why they won't work with other boards?
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:48:07
It might be possible to make up a few 3D models of plastic inserts which would have an MX-style cruciform on one end and an Alps-style stabilizer-bar slot on the other end, and order a few from Shapeways or something, if you really want to make things work. But otherwise, there don’t currently exist plastic inserts which will let you fit SP’s stabilized keycaps onto most Alps keyboards.
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:49:24
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:52:29
SP Alps caps take Cherry MX size cruciform stabilizer inserts, just like any MX-compatible keycaps.
It might be possible to make up a few 3D models of plastic inserts which would have an MX-style cruciform on one end and an Alps-style stabilizer-bar slot on the other end, and order a few from Shapeways or something, if you really want to make things work. But otherwise, there don’t currently exist plastic inserts which will let you fit SP’s stabilized keycaps onto most Alps keyboards.
Well with a lot of custom keyboards which are alps and mx compatible you should be able to use standard MX stabs with these caps.
You don't need some vintage board to put these on. I thought a lot of people here would put them on custom boards.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:52:43
I think I should make up a website just about the Alps stabilizer question, because even people who have been hanging out at geekhack for long enough that they should have seen this explained in detail dozens of times on numerous threads still seem to be utterly confused about it.
Never heard of the problem until here and I'm so glad that your attitude is really helping me understand it. /sarcasm.
Looks like you can just take the costar stabilizers (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62274.msg1480140#msg1480140), cut them down, and they'll work.
Could you link us poor plebes who can't possible comprehend your help?
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:55:23
Never heard of the problem until herehttps://encrypted.google.com/search?q=jacobolus%20alps%20stabilizer%20(site%3Ageekhack.org%20OR%20site%3Adeskthority.net) (https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=jacobolus%20alps%20stabilizer%20(site%3Ageekhack.org%20OR%20site%3Adeskthority.net))
I’m not trying to call anyone out specifically (though I’ve actually explained this in direct responses right below posts of yours on at least two threads :) ). It’s just frustrating because I feel like a broken record.
Looks like you can just take the costar stabilizers (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62274.msg1480140#msg1480140), cut them down, and they'll work.If you have a Chicony keyboard designed for Costar-style stabilizers, then yes, these SP keycaps will work. That’s my group (b) in the list above. If you have a Northgate, Apple, Dell, SGI, Zenith, Alps, Matias, etc. keyboard, then no, they won’t work.
Check Hak Foo’s post two posts below your link: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62274.msg1482025#msg1482025
The main keyboard where a 2.75u right shift might be useful to add as part of this set would be the Ducky 1087XM. I can’t find any pictures of their stabilized keycaps in a google image search. Does anyone know what type of stabilizer inserts it takes? If they are the Costar type, then it might be useful to add a 2.75u shift, assuming like 10 1087XM owners can be found who are interested in replacement caps. Otherwise, I don’t think it makes any sense to add 2.75u right shift to this set, unless a whole bunch of people are planning to use one with their own DIY keyboards or something.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 15:25:43
We could use hasu's 60% Alps PCB, and make our own plate for it which uses Costar stabilizers, like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/QYwSuSb.png)
"Infinity Hacker" layout
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 27 March 2015, 15:36:56
... OR ...
We could use hasu's 60% Alps PCB, and make our own plate for it which uses Costar stabilizers, like this:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QYwSuSb.png)
"Infinity Hacker" layout
Yes please. I need more 60% Alps.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 15:49:31
6u and 6.25u DCS spacebars are possible.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 27 March 2015, 15:56:42
I just got some great news, friends. Melissa at SP tells me that they can mold any size key, in either DCS or DSA profile, with an Alps center mount.
6u and 6.25u DCS spacebars are possible.
(http://www.kirbypereira.net/xonaiya/reactionimages/gifs/****%20yeah.gif)
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 16:00:21
We could use hasu's 60% Alps PCB, and make our own plate for it which uses Costar stabilizers, like this:You could do that. But note, you’re going to be limited to only SP keycaps for stabilized keys in that case. So you’d better coordinate keycaps + plate + PCB and make sure the people buying in understand that they can’t use old Alps caps with it for enter and left shift. Also, why not just buy an Infinity board in that case? You get basically the same result, the only difference is what chip you’re using. If the idea is to use hasu’s firmware, I think he got it working on an Infinity board.
Anyway, much better, assuming you can afford to wait a few weeks would be to use plate holes for Matias’s new stabilizer clips/wires/inserts, which will work with either type of keycap.
I should email Matias again; he said he’d mail me some samples, but I think he forgot about it in between all the other stuff he has to take care of.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 27 March 2015, 16:19:47
I think I should make up a website just about the Alps stabilizer question, because even people who have been hanging out at geekhack for long enough that they should have seen this explained in detail dozens of times on numerous threads still seem to be utterly confused about it.
Never heard of the problem until here and I'm so glad that your attitude is really helping me understand it. /sarcasm.
Looks like you can just take the costar stabilizers (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62274.msg1480140#msg1480140), cut them down, and they'll work.
Could you link us poor plebes who can't possible comprehend your help?
Well done.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 16:28:05
Since standard layouts are now an option, I would like to know if people would be interested in buying a plate in Infinity Hacker, Infinity Standard, ANSI 125, or some other layout.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 27 March 2015, 16:30:05
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 16:48:27
I prefer a more standard layout like ANSI, but would be fine with something else as long as there are plans to support the layout.
(http://i.imgur.com/2Sy4wJe.png)
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 27 March 2015, 17:18:39
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 17:44:05
@jacobolus: the purpose of the proposed modifier set being offered here is exactly for the Infinity. And I need feedback from people who are interested in a) handwiring, b) hasu's 60% PCB, or c) the Infinity as to what type of plate they would like. It's much cheaper to order several plates, than to buy a one-off.Sure, I understand that.
What I don’t understand is why someone would want hasu’s PCB + one of your proposed plates (with the Infinity layout you showed before), instead of just the Infinity kit. Seems like the two are almost identical for practical purposes for someone who wants to use Alps switches and the keycaps under discussion in this thread.
Post by: ideus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 18:01:19
@jacobolus: the purpose of the proposed modifier set being offered here is exactly for the Infinity. And I need feedback from people who are interested in a) handwiring, b) hasu's 60% PCB, or c) the Infinity as to what type of plate they would like. It's much cheaper to order several plates, than to buy a one-off.Sure, I understand that.
What I don’t understand is why someone would want hasu’s PCB + one of your proposed plates (with the Infinity layout you showed before), instead of just the Infinity kit. Seems like the two are almost identical for practical purposes for someone who wants to use Alps switches and the keycaps under discussion in this thread.
Because of availability? or maybe it is just the product of a convoluted mind.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 March 2015, 20:37:13
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 March 2015, 22:07:51
I just got some great news, friends. Melissa at SP tells me that they can mold any size key, in either DCS or DSA profile, with an Alps center mount.
6u and 6.25u DCS spacebars are possible.
This is definitely great news! And good to know it's information you received after actually speaking to someone. A while back in this very thread I thought it was determined after speaking with SP that 6U DCS spacebars were not possible. I wonder, why the discrepancy?
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 March 2015, 23:01:09
JD, what would be different between your proposed plate/PCB combo and the existing Infinity kits with the flat plate option?
Nothing at all, really. I was just showing one option that could be made. But others could be done, instead. I didn't buy an Infinity yet, but I do have one of hasu's PCBs coming to me soon. I think there is something to be said for doing something like an Alps-only PCB, without the option of MX switches. Of course, that narrows the marketability, but most boards that have both switch types as an option prioritize MX over Alps if switch locations conflict.
Infinity Hacker layout has been done, and now there is the KBP V60 Matias version in standard ANSI, so maybe something like a Pure layout with a 150 bottom row? Just thinking out loud. With Alps, the sides clip to the plate, so universal layout plates aren't an option.
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 23:43:16
I think there is something to be said for doing something like an Alps-only PCB, without the option of MX switches.Me too, but then it’s stupid to limit it to Costar-stabilized keycaps, IMO.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 27 March 2015, 23:58:00
I just got some great news, friends. Melissa at SP tells me that they can mold any size key, in either DCS or DSA profile, with an Alps center mount.
6u and 6.25u DCS spacebars are possible.
Mmmmm DCS Alps spacebar would be nice :).
... OR ...
We could use hasu's 60% Alps PCB, and make our own plate for it which uses Costar stabilizers, like this:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QYwSuSb.png)
"Infinity Hacker" layout
That plate though. Just out of sheer curiosity, could Cherry stabilizers be used with the SP Alps caps? I'm guessing no but I guess I'm looking for some details.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 28 March 2015, 07:34:40
I think the only question that remains is whether a 2.75U right shift would actually benefit anyone. Has that been resolved?
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sat, 28 March 2015, 08:43:18
I think the only question that remains is whether a 2.75U right shift would actually benefit anyone. Has that been resolved?
Maybe someday it would.
What I don�t understand is why someone would want hasu�s PCB + one of your proposed plates (with the Infinity layout you showed before), instead of just the Infinity kit. Seems like the two are almost identical for practical purposes for someone who wants to use Alps switches and the keycaps under discussion in this thread.
You're assuming that practicality is an important component of decision making for most human beings. If there is more stuff to buy, I will buy more stuff.
Post by: zombimuncha on Sun, 29 March 2015, 07:31:53
Anyway, much better, assuming you can afford to wait a few weeks would be to use plate holes for Matias’s new stabilizer clips/wires/inserts, which will work with either type of keycap.
I should email Matias again; he said he’d mail me some samples, but I think he forgot about it in between all the other stuff he has to take care of.
Yeah, my V80 ambitions are entirely dependent on Matias' magical mystery balance bars. I understand he has some custom balance bars that will connect Alps stabilizer plate clips to Costar stabilizer keycap inserts. I'd LOVE to see some photos of how it's supposed to work.
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 29 March 2015, 08:41:01
Anyway, much better, assuming you can afford to wait a few weeks would be to use plate holes for Matias�s new stabilizer clips/wires/inserts, which will work with either type of keycap.
I should email Matias again; he said he�d mail me some samples, but I think he forgot about it in between all the other stuff he has to take care of.
Yeah, my V80 ambitions are entirely dependent on Matias' magical mystery balance bars. I understand he has some custom balance bars that will connect Alps stabilizer plate clips to Costar stabilizer keycap inserts. I'd LOVE to see some photos of how it's supposed to work.
Me too. I keep hearing about it, but I can't quite wrap my head around how it works, either.
Post by: Matias on Mon, 30 March 2015, 11:43:42
Anyway, much better, assuming you can afford to wait a few weeks would be to use plate holes for Matias's new stabilizer clips/wires/inserts, which will work with either type of keycap.
I should email Matias again; he said he'd mail me some samples, but I think he forgot about it in between all the other stuff he has to take care of.
Yeah, my V80 ambitions are entirely dependent on Matias' magical mystery balance bars. I understand he has some custom balance bars that will connect Alps stabilizer plate clips to Costar stabilizer keycap inserts. I'd LOVE to see some photos of how it's supposed to work.
Me too. I keep hearing about it, but I can't quite wrap my head around how it works, either.
Interesting discussion so far -- still need to read through it all.
My plan was to have our 60% keyboard be a reference design for anyone wanting to do a universal plate & PCB that supports both Cherry and ALPS. However, I think that may be too long to wait, so I have another idea...
Is there a universally accepted plate+PCB that fits the most popular cases? If you can steer me to the drawings, I can modify them to simultaneously support ALPS+Cherry and then release them as a reference design for the community.
PS: jacobolus, still have your samples on my to-do list. Can probably send them out this week. Sorry for the delay, lots of project-related stuff just got in the way.
Post by: njbair on Mon, 30 March 2015, 11:46:07
Anyway, much better, assuming you can afford to wait a few weeks would be to use plate holes for Matias's new stabilizer clips/wires/inserts, which will work with either type of keycap.
I should email Matias again; he said he'd mail me some samples, but I think he forgot about it in between all the other stuff he has to take care of.
Yeah, my V80 ambitions are entirely dependent on Matias' magical mystery balance bars. I understand he has some custom balance bars that will connect Alps stabilizer plate clips to Costar stabilizer keycap inserts. I'd LOVE to see some photos of how it's supposed to work.
Me too. I keep hearing about it, but I can't quite wrap my head around how it works, either.
Interesting discussion so far -- still need to read through it all.
My plan was to have our 60% keyboard be a reference design for anyone wanting to do a universal plate & PCB that supports both Cherry and ALPS. However, I think that may be too long to wait, so I have another idea...
Is there a universally accepted plate+PCB that fits the most popular cases? If you can steer me to the drawings, I can modify them to simultaneously support ALPS+Cherry and then release them as a reference design for the community.
PS: jacobolus, still have your samples on my to-do list. Can probably send them out this week. Sorry for the delay, lots of project-related stuff just got in the way.
The Infinity Standard layout PCB & plate already supports Alps & MX, and it fits in a standard 60% case.
Post by: Matias on Mon, 30 March 2015, 11:48:47
Is there a universally accepted plate+PCB that fits the most popular cases? If you can steer me to the drawings, I can modify them to simultaneously support ALPS+Cherry and then release them as a reference design for the community.
The Infinity Standard layout PCB & plate already supports Alps & MX, and it fits in a standard 60% case.
Drawings?
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 30 March 2015, 11:52:31
Is there a universally accepted plate+PCB that fits the most popular cases? If you can steer me to the drawings, I can modify them to simultaneously support ALPS+Cherry and then release them as a reference design for the community.
The Infinity Standard layout PCB & plate already supports Alps & MX, and it fits in a standard 60% case.
Drawings?
They are open source. :)
https://github.com/kiibohd/case
Post by: Matias on Mon, 30 March 2015, 12:09:09
Is there a universally accepted plate+PCB that fits the most popular cases? If you can steer me to the drawings, I can modify them to simultaneously support ALPS+Cherry and then release them as a reference design for the community.
The Infinity Standard layout PCB & plate already supports Alps & MX, and it fits in a standard 60% case.
Drawings?
They are open source. :)
https://github.com/kiibohd/case
Perfect... :)
Are there 2D files of the plate & PCB in DWG or DXF format?
I'm just seeing STEP 3D files.
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 30 March 2015, 12:34:22
Perfect... :)
Are there 2D files of the plate & PCB in DWG or DXF format?
I'm just seeing STEP 3D files.
Here, I converted it to a 2D DXF and attached it to this post.
Post by: Matias on Mon, 30 March 2015, 13:56:58
1) Use ALPS plate clips for both ALPS and Cherry.
2) The outside clips are positioned for Cherry. The inside clips are positioned for ALPS.
3) For the Spacebar, I only put the clips for Cherry, since the plate is a little too short to support ALPS stabs, and all ALPS spacebars currently in production use Cherry stabs anyway.
[attachimg=2]
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 30 March 2015, 14:00:52
Okay here is how you do it...
1) Use ALPS plate clips for both ALPS and Cherry.
2) The outside clips are positioned for Cherry. The inside clips are positioned for ALPS.
3) For the Spacebar, I only put the clips for Cherry, since the plate is a little too short to support ALPS stabs and all ALPS spacebars currently in production use Cherry stabs.
(Attachment Link)
Very cool, thank you, sir. When will these new clips and spring bars be available for purchase?
Post by: Matias on Mon, 30 March 2015, 14:07:31
Okay here is how you do it...
1) Use ALPS plate clips for both ALPS and Cherry.
2) The outside clips are positioned for Cherry. The inside clips are positioned for ALPS.
3) For the Spacebar, I only put the clips for Cherry, since the plate is a little too short to support ALPS stabs and all ALPS spacebars currently in production use Cherry stabs.
(Attachment Link)
Very cool, thank you, sir. When will these new clips and spring bars be available for purchase?
"Soon" :) but I have samples now, and can send you a few if you PM me your address info.
Full assembled, it looks like this...
[attachimg=1]
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 30 March 2015, 21:42:30
Will you be selling Alps-style rectangle-mount and/or MX-style cross-mount keycap inserts to go with the new stabilizers?
Post by: Badwrench on Mon, 30 March 2015, 22:39:38
I have been working on pricing with SP and as it stands here is the pricing without a 2.75x right shift key (I added it to the OP render based on all that has been going on lately to see if it adds much to the pricing). I am worried that we are starting to get where we were before with too much going on, but we will see. Pricing has a small amount added to cover shipping to me, but does not include paypal fees or shipping from me. Also, this does not incorporate the custom logo costs as those are being generously donated if the set sells.
25 sets $59.15 per set
50 sets $42.85 per set
74 sets $37.50 per set
100 sets $34.88 per set
Post by: njbair on Mon, 30 March 2015, 22:49:07
Okay here is how you do it... (DXF attached)
1) Use ALPS plate clips for both ALPS and Cherry.
2) The outside clips are positioned for Cherry. The inside clips are positioned for ALPS.
3) For the Spacebar, I only put the clips for Cherry, since the plate is a little too short to support ALPS stabs, and all ALPS spacebars currently in production use Cherry stabs anyway.
(Attachment Link)
I'm no wire stab expert, but couldn't you put the clip slots on the top side for one of the switch types? In that case you could even fit clip slots for the spacebar. See:
[attachimg=1]
In this mockup I only did the spacebar but you could do it with the others as well.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 31 March 2015, 08:14:24
Okay here is how you do it...
1) Use ALPS plate clips for both ALPS and Cherry.
2) The outside clips are positioned for Cherry. The inside clips are positioned for ALPS.
3) For the Spacebar, I only put the clips for Cherry, since the plate is a little too short to support ALPS stabs and all ALPS spacebars currently in production use Cherry stabs.
(Attachment Link)
Very cool, thank you, sir. When will these new clips and spring bars be available for purchase?
"Soon" :) but I have samples now, and can send you a few if you PM me your address info.
Full assembled, it looks like this...
(Attachment Link)
I'm an Alps noob, so I have a question about this design. Are Alps stabilizers required to be in a different position (what I would describe as "down", or pushed toward the bottom of a switch)? I can't imagine that there is a need for them to be "narrower" or closer together, but that's instead simply to give another placement to make the vertically-moved holes, correct? Basically, I'm wondering why they can't share stabilizer mounts points. ;) Hope my wording isn't too strange. :thumb: Thanks!
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 31 March 2015, 08:23:27
I'm an Alps noob, so I have a question about this design. Are Alps stabilizers required to be in a different position (what I would describe as "down", or pushed toward the bottom of a switch)? I can't imagine that there is a need for them to be "narrower" or closer together, but that's instead simply to give another placement to make the vertically-moved holes, correct? Basically, I'm wondering why they can't share stabilizer mounts points. ;) Hope my wording isn't too strange. :thumb: Thanks!
Yes, the Alps stabilizer inserts which go into the keycaps have an OPEN slot design, and require the stabilizer bar to be on "south" of the switch. In contrast to the Costar stabilizer inserts for MX, which have a CLOSED slot.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 31 March 2015, 08:24:14
Okay here is how you do it...
1) Use ALPS plate clips for both ALPS and Cherry.
2) The outside clips are positioned for Cherry. The inside clips are positioned for ALPS.
3) For the Spacebar, I only put the clips for Cherry, since the plate is a little too short to support ALPS stabs and all ALPS spacebars currently in production use Cherry stabs.
(Attachment Link)
Very cool, thank you, sir. When will these new clips and spring bars be available for purchase?
"Soon" :) but I have samples now, and can send you a few if you PM me your address info.
Full assembled, it looks like this...
(Attachment Link)
I'm an Alps noob, so I have a question about this design. Are Alps stabilizers required to be in a different position (what I would describe as "down", or pushed toward the bottom of a switch)? I can't imagine that there is a need for them to be "narrower" or closer together, but that's instead simply to give another placement to make the vertically-moved holes, correct? Basically, I'm wondering why they can't share stabilizer mounts points. ;) Hope my wording isn't too strange. :thumb: Thanks!
Did you happen to see my spacebar mockup in the post right above yours? I think you're right that the horizontal spacing is more a matter of fitting both very close together. But AFAIK all stabs are vertically centered on the cap, so if you flip either one (Alps or Cherry) to the "top" side, you can still fit both without interfering with one another.
Post by: Matias on Tue, 31 March 2015, 09:32:20
Do you have pictures of the inserts that fit into MX-mount keycaps? Are those just the same as regular costar inserts, or are they new?
They are regular Costar inserts.
Will you be selling Alps-style rectangle-mount and/or MX-style cross-mount keycap inserts to go with the new stabilizers?
We'll be selling both.
I'm no wire stab expert, but couldn't you put the clip slots on the top side for one of the switch types? In that case you could even fit clip slots for the spacebar. See:
(Attachment Link)
In this mockup I only did the spacebar but you could do it with the others as well.
That approach would work for Costar stabs. For ALPS stabs, it would allow you to mount the spacebar upside-down.
I'm an Alps noob, so I have a question about this design. Are Alps stabilizers required to be in a different position (what I would describe as "down", or pushed toward the bottom of a switch)?
If you're using a standard ALPS stabilizer wire, yes, they have to be lower.
However, we've designed a new stabilizer wire for ALPS that can occupy the same plate clip position as Cherry. If you use that Cherry-style ALPS wire, then you only need one set of clip holes in the plate. I included the extra set of holes to allow for backwards compatibility with traditional ALPS stabilizer wires.
I can't imagine that there is a need for them to be "narrower" or closer together, but that's instead simply to give another placement to make the vertically-moved holes, correct? Basically, I'm wondering why they can't share stabilizer mounts points. ;) Hope my wording isn't too strange. :thumb: Thanks!
The Cherry clips have to be in a certain horizontal position, because the stab wires curve around the switch. The ALPS stab wires are straight, so they can be positioned wherever there's available space. You can see this in the photo I posted earlier -- see below...
Full assembled, it looks like this...
(Attachment Link)
Post by: njbair on Tue, 31 March 2015, 09:39:39
I'm no wire stab expert, but couldn't you put the clip slots on the top side for one of the switch types? In that case you could even fit clip slots for the spacebar. See:
(Attachment Link)
In this mockup I only did the spacebar but you could do it with the others as well.
That approach would work for Costar stabs. For ALPS stabs, it would allow you to mount the spacebar upside-down.
Well I know the Cherry stab clips mount right in the middle, and they're cruciform so you should just be able to turn the inserts around 180 degrees. If that's not the way Matias clips work, then leave them on the bottom and put the [...oh geez, I apologize in advance for this one...] cherry on top.
Post by: Matias on Tue, 31 March 2015, 10:20:21
I'm no wire stab expert, but couldn't you put the clip slots on the top side for one of the switch types? In that case you could even fit clip slots for the spacebar. See:
(Attachment Link)
In this mockup I only did the spacebar but you could do it with the others as well.
That approach would work for Costar stabs. For ALPS stabs, it would allow you to mount the spacebar upside-down.
Well I know the Cherry stab clips mount right in the middle, and they're cruciform so you should just be able to turn the inserts around 180 degrees. If that's not the way Matias clips work, then leave them on the bottom and put the [...oh geez, I apologize in advance for this one...] cherry on top.
Yes, you only need one set of Cherry stab clips -- you can position them on top or on the bottom.
However, if you position them on top, then using them for an ALPS stab necessitates that keycap being upside-down.
Post by: zombimuncha on Tue, 31 March 2015, 12:29:05
[attachimg=1 align=left width=800]
Post by: Matias on Tue, 31 March 2015, 16:02:13
To attach SP keycaps to an Alps board, would it not be simpler to use the existing Alps plate clips with a custom wire that's slightly "longer" horizontally and "less tall" vertically?
(Attachment Link)
Yes, that approach is easier, and that is the approach we're using to allow SP caps to work on our existing ALPS keyboards.
However, if your goal is to design a single PCB+plate that supports both ALPS and Cherry, then the approach I described below is the way to do it.
Post by: zombimuncha on Tue, 31 March 2015, 16:33:33
To attach SP keycaps to an Alps board, would it not be simpler to use the existing Alps plate clips with a custom wire that's slightly "longer" horizontally and "less tall" vertically?
(Attachment Link)
Yes, that approach is easier, and that is the approach we're using to allow SP caps to work on our existing ALPS keyboards.
However, if you're goal is to design a single PCB+plate that supports both ALPS and Cherry, then the approach I described below is the way to do it.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Best news all week!
So Badwrench, based on this I think it's a good idea to include the 2.75u RShift in this set.
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 31 March 2015, 17:48:35
To attach SP keycaps to an Alps board, would it not be simpler to use the existing Alps plate clips with a custom wire that's slightly "longer" horizontally and "less tall" vertically?
(Attachment Link)
Yes, that approach is easier, and that is the approach we're using to allow SP caps to work on our existing ALPS keyboards.
However, if your goal is to design a single PCB+plate that supports both ALPS and Cherry, then the approach I described below is the way to do it.
Sounds like we need to have a wire buy or see about getting wires with the kit so the caps can be used on multiple keyboards :)
Now I just need to make my adapters work with the square insert stabilizers as well as the cruciform they work with now.
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 31 March 2015, 21:48:07
[attachimg=1]
Post by: njbair on Tue, 31 March 2015, 22:48:10
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 31 March 2015, 22:48:57
I think this is a wise way to break things up without overcomplicating the buy. Nice work.
It also helps with the cost.
Post by: Badwrench on Wed, 01 April 2015, 00:06:46
I think this is a wise way to break things up without overcomplicating the buy. Nice work.
It also helps with the cost.
Ok, here is the pricing:
Once again, I have added a small amount to the initial costs to cover shipping to me, but they still don't include the paypal and shipping from me.
Infinity Kit
25 sets $59.16 per set
50 sets $43.22 per set
75 sets $37.78 per set
100 sets $35.36 per set
Optional Modifier Kit
25 sets $13.49 per set
50 sets $8.99 per set
75 sets $7.65 per set
100 sets $6.77 per set
Ideally, if we can get to the 50 MOQ tier, the pricing will get much better. I am working on setting up a way to do a Massdrop style of entry for the GB so that we can track where we are on MOQ and help people that are on the fence in case they are worried about the buy not making the tier they want.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 01 April 2015, 07:15:20
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 01 April 2015, 08:04:10
Post by: zombimuncha on Wed, 01 April 2015, 08:26:34
Post by: geniekid on Wed, 01 April 2015, 08:26:55
Ok, here is the pricing:
Once again, I have added a small amount to the initial costs to cover shipping to me, but they still don't include the paypal and shipping from me.
Infinity Kit
25 sets $59.16 per set
50 sets $43.22 per set
75 sets $37.78 per set
100 sets $35.36 per set
Optional Modifier Kit
25 sets $13.49 per set
50 sets $8.99 per set
75 sets $7.65 per set
100 sets $6.77 per set
Ideally, if we can get to the 50 MOQ tier, the pricing will get much better. I am working on setting up a way to do a Massdrop style of entry for the GB so that we can track where we are on MOQ and help people that are on the fence in case they are worried about the buy not making the tier they want.
I like this idea.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 01 April 2015, 08:40:29
I'll wait here.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 01 April 2015, 08:41:57
Post by: Matias on Wed, 01 April 2015, 09:53:46
The GB is on the keycap set, and the mount choice is just an option.
By including Cherry, you broaden the size of the GB beyond just ALPS fans and make it easier to hit the MOQs. Cherry fans would spread the word also.
This would also set a precedent for future GBs being done in the same way.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 01 April 2015, 09:55:47
I think it's more important to have an adapter kit in Alps then to have a not-so-useful kit in MX.
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 01 April 2015, 09:56:24
Post by: njbair on Wed, 01 April 2015, 10:14:06
I think the entire point of this and the Delta Blues GB, Matias, is to have Alps only group buys. And these caps wouldn't be very useful for Cherry users unless they had an Infinity. The kit being offered would be usable on newer modern layout Alps boards coming out soon.
I think it's more important to have an adapter kit in Alps then to have a not-so-useful kit in MX.
We are also trying to learn to navigate the Alps market. Why does a GB succeed or fail? Is it because there simply aren't enough Alps users, or just not enough who needed/wanted that particular keyset?
That's the nice thing about this GB. By starting with the simplest, most basic set we can hopefully learn what people want. And if this succeeds, that means that many more pics out there of custom Alps keysets, in turn generating interest in future buys.
Post by: zombimuncha on Wed, 01 April 2015, 10:29:23
the MX-ers might not be keen on the Alps logo.
the non-infinity-Alpsters like me are probably the only ones who would want the extra right shift and backspace.
We need to be clear about whether this is a tightly focused buy for Alps-Infinity, to keep costs down, or is it more of a one-size-fits-MOQ kind of deal.
Judging by what happened with Delta Blues I think MOQ is definitely a factor, so if SP will go for it maybe MX should be included.
Post by: bcredbottle on Thu, 02 April 2015, 11:24:01
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 02 April 2015, 11:33:59
Post by: zombimuncha on Thu, 02 April 2015, 11:40:42
Do you know if these would be compatible with a Matias Ergo Pro? If so I would gladly pay through the nose for these.
I'm not sure about the odd-shaped keys like Esc, Ctrl, Alt, but the standard ones like the shifts, tab, enter, backspace should be fine - but you will need the new balance bars for the stabilized keys.
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 03 April 2015, 11:36:12
Post by: bcredbottle on Tue, 07 April 2015, 10:18:33
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 07 April 2015, 11:42:00
So...is this happening again?Yeah, just trying to dial in a good google form that will allow people to pledge to a certain moq (similar to massdrop).
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 07 April 2015, 11:42:57
So...is this happening again?Yeah, just trying to dial in a good google form that will allow people to pledge to a certain moq (similar to massdrop).
engicoder has a form like that for his 1976 add-on packs.
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 07 April 2015, 11:46:08
Cool. I will pm himSo...is this happening again?Yeah, just trying to dial in a good google form that will allow people to pledge to a certain moq (similar to massdrop).
engicoder has a form like that for his 1976 add-on packs.
Post by: mashby on Tue, 07 April 2015, 12:34:29
Cool. I will pm himSo...is this happening again?Yeah, just trying to dial in a good google form that will allow people to pledge to a certain moq (similar to massdrop).
engicoder has a form like that for his 1976 add-on packs.
I can help with the Google Forms if you need it. Done plenty.
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 07 April 2015, 13:34:07
I am trying to do one like enigcoder did for the 1976 packCool. I will pm himSo...is this happening again?Yeah, just trying to dial in a good google form that will allow people to pledge to a certain moq (similar to massdrop).
engicoder has a form like that for his 1976 add-on packs.
I can help with the Google Forms if you need it. Done plenty.
Post by: mashby on Tue, 07 April 2015, 13:39:12
I am trying to do one like enigcoder did for the 1976 pack
I'm on it. PM me your Google account e-mail so that I can share it with you when it's done.
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 07 April 2015, 22:45:52
The other option is to make the 1x mountain logo a blank in the kit.
PM me if you would like to help out. :thumb:
Donation found! Thank you njbair for your support of this set. :thumb:
On a completely different topic, what is the community feeling of adding another set to the buy? Infinity in mx.
Pricing would be exactly the same for mx.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 07 April 2015, 23:17:58
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 07 April 2015, 23:22:28
I think doing the same set in MX would be a great idea, but run it after this buy is over.
For sure. Doing this by myself, I really don't want to have multiple hundreds of sets (optimistically thinking) more to mail all at once.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 07 April 2015, 23:33:40
There's got to be a way to split up a single GB between a few major color options, so each color counts towards the same MOQ.
Post by: Badwrench on Wed, 08 April 2015, 00:30:39
If this buy succeeds I would like to see a follow up Alps alphas DCS buy, including a 6U spacebar.
There's got to be a way to split up a single GB between a few major color options, so each color counts towards the same MOQ.
I would like this as well :thumb:
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 10 April 2015, 19:05:19
Post by: zombimuncha on Tue, 21 April 2015, 10:24:15
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 21 April 2015, 10:25:44
Now that the GB is on, I guess it's safe to post this here on the IC thread - I think the next round should be a big one-set-fits-almost-all set of black on white PBT dyesubs, so ppl can dye them whatever colour they want.
I will never buy PBT dyesubs of any kind. :(
Post by: Touch_It on Tue, 21 April 2015, 10:26:53
Now that the GB is on, I guess it's safe to post this here on the IC thread - I think the next round should be a big one-set-fits-almost-all set of black on white PBT dyesubs, so ppl can dye them whatever colour they want.
I will never buy PBT dyesubs of any kind. :(
:(. I love pbt
Post by: zombimuncha on Tue, 21 April 2015, 14:17:33
Now that the GB is on, I guess it's safe to post this here on the IC thread - I think the next round should be a big one-set-fits-almost-all set of black on white PBT dyesubs, so ppl can dye them whatever colour they want.
I will never buy PBT dyesubs of any kind. :(
:(. I love pbt
The main advantage of PBT in this case being that it's easier to dye than ABS due to higher melting point. I think.
Post by: rsadek on Tue, 21 April 2015, 14:40:35
I'm curious what it is you dislike about PBT dyesubs, could you elaborate? Are they objectionable?Now that the GB is on, I guess it's safe to post this here on the IC thread - I think the next round should be a big one-set-fits-almost-all set of black on white PBT dyesubs, so ppl can dye them whatever colour they want.
I will never buy PBT dyesubs of any kind. :(
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 21 April 2015, 16:07:48
I'm curious what it is you dislike about PBT dyesubs, could you elaborate? Are they objectionable?Now that the GB is on, I guess it's safe to post this here on the IC thread - I think the next round should be a big one-set-fits-almost-all set of black on white PBT dyesubs, so ppl can dye them whatever colour they want.
I will never buy PBT dyesubs of any kind. :(
To me, yes, they are objectionable. I almost always prefer a quality double shot ABS (Cherry/GMK, SP's DCS, SP's SA) over PBT. I'm forced to use dyesub PBT on buckling spring and Topre, as there is no other choice. But for MX and Alps, I can't think of a case where I would purchase a set of PBT caps. I prefer the crisp legends of double shot injection molding over even the best dyesub printing. And I don't use blanks, so blank PBT is not an option for me, even if I liked the feel of them, which I don't.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 21 April 2015, 19:25:10
Post by: doodersbrother on Sun, 26 April 2015, 23:08:23