[img width=400 height=120]https://i.postimg.cc/fbmJ0WC4/gmk-bread-sig.png[/img]
(https://i.postimg.cc/fbmJ0WC4/gmk-bread-sig.png)Might want to check the bbcode in your post. Some of the images are being squished to sizes that aren't proportional to their original dimensions. Alt Alphas is the most noticeable one.
OMG FINALLY!!!!!
THIS IS THE ONE KEYCAP SET IVE BEEN WAITING FOR SINCE I STARTED IN THIS HOBBY MANY MONTHS AGO!!!!
TIME TO GET THAT BREAD BABY
way too damn many good sets this summer
this is my already bought or will buy list:
ePBT classic Cyrillic
GMK Modern Dolch 2
GMK Bread
GMK hammerhead (light)
GMK Sloth
GMK Sumi
GMK Bento R2
way too damn many good sets this summer
this is my already bought or will buy list:
ePBT classic Cyrillic
GMK Modern Dolch 2
GMK Bread
GMK hammerhead (light)
GMK Sloth
GMK Sumi
GMK Bento R2
Is the cable exclusive to canon keys? Cannot find it on the EU store
Thank you for your support!!
I'm in for bread, but you just made my day with that sloth set! That's 100% endgame for me.
Would love to own a set of these, however I got here after Alt. Alphas were no longer a thing.
#DealBreaker
:(
I'd say maybe a R2 could have toasted alphas along with other breads, like whole wheat.
Would love to own a set of these, however I got here after Alt. Alphas were no longer a thing.
#DealBreaker
:(
Having been traumatized by GMK Plum, I do feel sorry for you if that is indeed the true colours and not aggressive post-processing by your phone.
Show Image(https://i.redd.it/dgb5dljc07w71.jpg)
found a different pic on reddit and it looks OK
a little more yellow than the render but this seems not far off
actually i got something even better to compare the caps to, a Noctua NF A12 fan. i actually expected bread to look like a noctua fan and made jokes about it before.I was waiting for my local vendor to start selling extras for this set... but looks like I need to reconsider Thanks for the honest review and pictures!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SN5Ttsx.jpg)
no problem, it's just GMK Banana Bread now.
no problem, it's just GMK Banana Bread now.
I thought Buttered Pumpernickel, but I’m holding out till I see pics normalized to your bathroom lighting
no problem, it's just GMK Banana Bread now.
I thought Buttered Pumpernickel, but I’m holding out till I see pics normalized to your bathroom lighting
i just took a peak at the designer's discord. turns out that they changed the color to something completely different between R1 (RAL 1015) and R2 (RAL 1014) of color matching. so, no amount of "normalizing to your bathroom lighting" is going to fix it. we got screwed.Show Image(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/722841996464750612/903434428007710740/image0-4.jpg)
someone help me understand what happened because i sure dont
expandMoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/mJKYi7Z.png)
first mistake here is probably letting the community help you color match off of pictures
im not gonna post every instance of this because its just throughout the whole thing and you can just look in the discordShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/RAd4EPb.png)
aw man looks like the brown turned out a little light. wait thats not ral 8008Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/B24ozHm.png)
aw man looks like the beige turned out a little lightShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/4z03MYS.png)
i didnt know gmk did this nowadaysShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/h6btw0v.png)
yayShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/oiS2fNa.png)
yayShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/0nqEQqS.png)
wait thats not ral 1015Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/q4WbG7V.jpg)
my colors for comparison. so basically after measuring the ral 1015 sample with a spectrometer to get valid data to send over to gmk so they could get allowed an r2 sample of ral 1015 somewhere in between the world imploded and pantone 155c is now the alpha colorShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Divcxvf.png)
was the first sample from the second picture ral 8008 or pantone 1545c
and if it was 8008 why was he comparing it to 1545c
i dont think the designer ever actually said he changed colors anywhere nor were the final colors ever said by him so nobody knows i guessShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/LnWnHMZ.jpg)
comparison for referenceShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/BbIbB1u.png)
and if it was 1545c then i guess gmk just sucked at matching it the first time or some wild lighting
...or is it actually 8008 -> 1545c? or even a rumored 8008 -> 8011? or 1545c to 8011 because hell if i know at this pointShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/SLOOmep.png)
uh okShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Bak53Gi.png)
well now we know why
so basically after reading a lot of stuff in the discord server ive come to a logical conclusion that i still have no idea what is going on
someone help me understand what happened because i sure dont
expandMoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/mJKYi7Z.png)
first mistake here is probably letting the community help you color match off of pictures
im not gonna post every instance of this because its just throughout the whole thing and you can just look in the discordShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/RAd4EPb.png)
aw man looks like the brown turned out a little light. wait thats not ral 8008Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/B24ozHm.png)
aw man looks like the beige turned out a little lightShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/4z03MYS.png)
i didnt know gmk did this nowadaysShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/h6btw0v.png)
yayShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/oiS2fNa.png)
yayShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/0nqEQqS.png)
wait thats not ral 1015Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/q4WbG7V.jpg)
my colors for comparison. so basically after measuring the ral 1015 sample with a spectrometer to get valid data to send over to gmk so they could get allowed an r2 sample of ral 1015 somewhere in between the world imploded and pantone 155c is now the alpha colorShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Divcxvf.png)
was the first sample from the second picture ral 8008 or pantone 1545c
and if it was 8008 why was he comparing it to 1545c
i dont think the designer ever actually said he changed colors anywhere nor were the final colors ever said by him so nobody knows i guessShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/LnWnHMZ.jpg)
comparison for referenceShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/BbIbB1u.png)
and if it was 1545c then i guess gmk just sucked at matching it the first time or some wild lighting
...or is it actually 8008 -> 1545c? or even a rumored 8008 -> 8011? or 1545c to 8011 because hell if i know at this pointShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/SLOOmep.png)
uh okShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Bak53Gi.png)
well now we know why
so basically after reading a lot of stuff in the discord server ive come to a logical conclusion that i still have no idea what is going on
Thanks for the summary. I think what is going on is that there will be a GB for GMK Bread Light :p Jokes aside, even though I like the colors as I mentioned, I don't think it is acceptable to change colors during the GB without getting approval from literally every customer in my opinion(which is of course impossible). I wonder how none of the vendors weren't aware of this. I am not sure which one is worse;
them being aware and not doing anything about it, or them not following up about color matching on something they sold, so they weren't aware at all :/ Hopefully we can get an explanation at least on what went wrong.
They had it right during R1 in my opinion
no problem, it's just GMK Banana Bread now.
I thought Buttered Pumpernickel, but I’m holding out till I see pics normalized to your bathroom lighting
i just took a peak at the designer's discord. turns out that they changed the color to something completely different between R1 (RAL 1015) and R2 (RAL 1014) of color matching. so, no amount of "normalizing to your bathroom lighting" is going to fix it. we got screwed.Show Image(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/722841996464750612/903434428007710740/image0-4.jpg)
someone help me understand what happened because i sure dont
expandMoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/mJKYi7Z.png)
first mistake here is probably letting the community help you color match off of pictures
im not gonna post every instance of this because its just throughout the whole thing and you can just look in the discordShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/RAd4EPb.png)
aw man looks like the brown turned out a little light. wait thats not ral 8008Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/B24ozHm.png)
aw man looks like the beige turned out a little lightShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/4z03MYS.png)
i didnt know gmk did this nowadaysShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/h6btw0v.png)
yayShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/oiS2fNa.png)
yayShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/0nqEQqS.png)
wait thats not ral 1015Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/q4WbG7V.jpg)
my colors for comparison. so basically after measuring the ral 1015 sample with a spectrometer to get valid data to send over to gmk so they could get allowed an r2 sample of ral 1015 somewhere in between the world imploded and pantone 155c is now the alpha colorShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Divcxvf.png)
was the first sample from the second picture ral 8008 or pantone 1545c
and if it was 8008 why was he comparing it to 1545c
i dont think the designer ever actually said he changed colors anywhere nor were the final colors ever said by him so nobody knows i guessShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/LnWnHMZ.jpg)
comparison for referenceShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/BbIbB1u.png)
and if it was 1545c then i guess gmk just sucked at matching it the first time or some wild lighting
...or is it actually 8008 -> 1545c? or even a rumored 8008 -> 8011? or 1545c to 8011 because hell if i know at this pointShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/SLOOmep.png)
uh okShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Bak53Gi.png)
well now we know why
so basically after reading a lot of stuff in the discord server ive come to a logical conclusion that i still have no idea what is going on
no problem, it's just GMK Banana Bread now.
I thought Buttered Pumpernickel, but I’m holding out till I see pics normalized to your bathroom lighting
i just took a peak at the designer's discord. turns out that they changed the color to something completely different between R1 (RAL 1015) and R2 (RAL 1014) of color matching. so, no amount of "normalizing to your bathroom lighting" is going to fix it. we got screwed.Show Image(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/722841996464750612/903434428007710740/image0-4.jpg)
Sorry-was said in jest as pixelpushers blue sets medley photographed in different lighting is my go to for comparing blue colors. Your shots have been great and I appreciate laying out well known sets to compare to.
someone help me understand what happened because i sure dont
expandMoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/mJKYi7Z.png)
first mistake here is probably letting the community help you color match off of pictures
im not gonna post every instance of this because its just throughout the whole thing and you can just look in the discordShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/RAd4EPb.png)
aw man looks like the brown turned out a little light. wait thats not ral 8008Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/B24ozHm.png)
aw man looks like the beige turned out a little lightShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/4z03MYS.png)
i didnt know gmk did this nowadaysShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/h6btw0v.png)
yayShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/oiS2fNa.png)
yayShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/0nqEQqS.png)
wait thats not ral 1015Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/q4WbG7V.jpg)
my colors for comparison. so basically after measuring the ral 1015 sample with a spectrometer to get valid data to send over to gmk so they could get allowed an r2 sample of ral 1015 somewhere in between the world imploded and pantone 155c is now the alpha colorShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Divcxvf.png)
was the first sample from the second picture ral 8008 or pantone 1545c
and if it was 8008 why was he comparing it to 1545c
i dont think the designer ever actually said he changed colors anywhere nor were the final colors ever said by him so nobody knows i guessShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/LnWnHMZ.jpg)
comparison for referenceShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/BbIbB1u.png)
and if it was 1545c then i guess gmk just sucked at matching it the first time or some wild lighting
...or is it actually 8008 -> 1545c? or even a rumored 8008 -> 8011? or 1545c to 8011 because hell if i know at this pointShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/SLOOmep.png)
uh okShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Bak53Gi.png)
well now we know why
so basically after reading a lot of stuff in the discord server ive come to a logical conclusion that i still have no idea what is going on
oh no yet another example of people not being held responsible for their lack of accountability when handling thousands of the communities dollars due to the normalcy of group buys as a way to deliver product!
just another day in keyboards! :thumb:
someone help me understand what happened because i sure dont
expandMoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/mJKYi7Z.png)
first mistake here is probably letting the community help you color match off of pictures
im not gonna post every instance of this because its just throughout the whole thing and you can just look in the discordShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/RAd4EPb.png)
aw man looks like the brown turned out a little light. wait thats not ral 8008Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/B24ozHm.png)
aw man looks like the beige turned out a little lightShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/4z03MYS.png)
i didnt know gmk did this nowadaysShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/h6btw0v.png)
yayShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/oiS2fNa.png)
yayShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/0nqEQqS.png)
wait thats not ral 1015Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/q4WbG7V.jpg)
my colors for comparison. so basically after measuring the ral 1015 sample with a spectrometer to get valid data to send over to gmk so they could get allowed an r2 sample of ral 1015 somewhere in between the world imploded and pantone 155c is now the alpha colorShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Divcxvf.png)
was the first sample from the second picture ral 8008 or pantone 1545c
and if it was 8008 why was he comparing it to 1545c
i dont think the designer ever actually said he changed colors anywhere nor were the final colors ever said by him so nobody knows i guessShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/LnWnHMZ.jpg)
comparison for referenceShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/BbIbB1u.png)
and if it was 1545c then i guess gmk just sucked at matching it the first time or some wild lighting
...or is it actually 8008 -> 1545c? or even a rumored 8008 -> 8011? or 1545c to 8011 because hell if i know at this pointShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/SLOOmep.png)
uh okShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Bak53Gi.png)
well now we know why
so basically after reading a lot of stuff in the discord server ive come to a logical conclusion that i still have no idea what is going on
LMAOShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/8UslIF8.jpg)
Truly one of the greatest things I've seen
oh no yet another example of people not being held responsible for their lack of accountability when handling thousands of the communities dollars due to the normalcy of group buys as a way to deliver product!
just another day in keyboards! :thumb:
oh no yet another example of people not being held responsible for their lack of accountability when handling thousands of the communities dollars due to the normalcy of group buys as a way to deliver product!
just another day in keyboards! :thumb:
What would holding them responsible look like to you? No one is defending this guy. At this point, there's nothing to do except wait. They haven't tried to start another group buy since this started, so there's no future sales to prevent.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/8UslIF8.jpg)
Truly one of the greatest things I've seen
oh no yet another example of people not being held responsible for their lack of accountability when handling thousands of the communities dollars due to the normalcy of group buys as a way to deliver product!
just another day in keyboards! :thumb:
What would holding them responsible look like to you? No one is defending this guy. At this point, there's nothing to do except wait. They haven't tried to start another group buy since this started, so there's no future sales to prevent.
You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.
You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.
Should I as a new designer be expected to disclose relevant career experience? Age?
I mean, I’m 100% with you that buyers need to have a better idea of designer competency, but I just don’t know how to communicate that.
Def a fan of geekhack threads being updated in a timely manner. It's really the only place easily accessible to all those involved.You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.
Should I as a new designer be expected to disclose relevant career experience? Age?
I mean, I’m 100% with you that buyers need to have a better idea of designer competency, but I just don’t know how to communicate that.
I totally understand where you are coming from and maybe I didn't communicate clearly. There were 24 posts made in this GH thread in between first day launch and people showing photos of their kits in-hand. None of which I can see mentioned changes -- only an edited first post that had the mention of color changes in Discord tucked away. If you use this platform to promote your product you need to make updates happen on this platform. If you don't have prior business or sales experience the least you can do is update people along the way and check in with your customers.
You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.
Should I as a new designer be expected to disclose relevant career experience? Age?
I mean, I’m 100% with you that buyers need to have a better idea of designer competency, but I just don’t know how to communicate that.
You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.
Should I as a new designer be expected to disclose relevant career experience? Age?
I mean, I’m 100% with you that buyers need to have a better idea of designer competency, but I just don’t know how to communicate that.
Note that he said, “I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills.” Ilumkb was collecting the money, they placed this order, they knew the color was changed and saw the color chips. They even put their logo on the box. It was their job to make this doesn’t happen. We trust vendors to overlook the manufacturing because we can’t. If this guy was running the GB himself like in the old days, I wouldn’t have bought it. Not even if it was $20. Let alone $200. I was under the impression that someone with experience was also at the wheel.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/8UslIF8.jpg)
Truly one of the greatest things I've seen
This is a modern day masterpiece, I've never seen anything so bold, he is truely the martyr of our time, but we are too blinded by our own rage and hubris to see this individual's guiding light. We are lost as a community.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/8UslIF8.jpg)
Truly one of the greatest things I've seen
Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.
yeah ilumkb helped the designer check the r2 samples, but apparently they didn't realize that it's not a good idea to change to a completely different colorNot sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.
ilumkb is the lead vendor. they are the ones placing the order with GMK and they get to see the sample color chips. cannonkeys and the other vendors have no input on any of this. they are just proxies. all they do is pay a factory invoice for the sets they order then wait. i kinda stopped reading after that. sorry.
nah the ~10 people in the server at the time were unsatisfied with the original colors (as well as the designer a bit) so the designer decided to not accept the samples, talked to a bunch of experts, spend time to meet personally with the ilkb guy and ends up changing colors completely to try to satisfy more people. its the complete opposite of cutting corners but in the complete wrong direction
Accidental judge
Wtf is the color matching? ?? You realize people are waiting 1+ year to get this product and you are cutting corner like this?
(Attachment Link)
Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.
ilumkb is the lead vendor. they are the ones placing the order with GMK and they get to see the sample color chips. cannonkeys and the other vendors have no input on any of this. they are just proxies. all they do is pay a factory invoice for the sets they order then wait. i kinda stopped reading after that. sorry.
nah the ~10 people in the server at the time were unsatisfied with the original colors (as well as the designer a bit) so the designer decided to not accept the samples, talked to a bunch of experts, spend time to meet personally with the ilkb guy and ends up changing colors completely to try to satisfy more people. its the complete opposite of cutting corners but in the complete wrong direction
also just speculation who knows
Dunno if this makes sense. If Samsung ships buggy phones, is Best Buy responsible for the phones being buggy? No. Best Buy will take returns and refund money, or the users can decide to wait for an update.Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.
ilumkb is the lead vendor. they are the ones placing the order with GMK and they get to see the sample color chips. cannonkeys and the other vendors have no input on any of this. they are just proxies. all they do is pay a factory invoice for the sets they order then wait. i kinda stopped reading after that. sorry.
I was basically agreeing with you, but way to make a conversation with people I guess... That said, them being lead vendor doesn't defer responsibility from other vendors in my opinion. I think they still have the responsibility to follow the production for something they sell on their page and profit from. Like if I was a "proxy" vendor, I would occasionally send emails to "lead" vendor to get updates on what is going on. Again, since there is no clear definition on who is responsible from what, that is just my opinion. Also, of course we don't know what exactly happened, and maybe the other vendors asked about update and ilumkb said everything is going according to plan.
Also regarding to supporting vendors we trust, I really hope that in the future we can get multiple regional vendors. I feel like that can give option to customers to pick vendor they want rather than missing out a set they want, and having competition between vendors can only be a good thing for customers as each of them tries to make their service better than the others.
Dunno if this makes sense. If Samsung ships buggy phones, is Best Buy responsible for the phones being buggy? No. Best Buy will take returns and refund money, or the users can decide to wait for an update.Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.
ilumkb is the lead vendor. they are the ones placing the order with GMK and they get to see the sample color chips. cannonkeys and the other vendors have no input on any of this. they are just proxies. all they do is pay a factory invoice for the sets they order then wait. i kinda stopped reading after that. sorry.
I was basically agreeing with you, but way to make a conversation with people I guess... That said, them being lead vendor doesn't defer responsibility from other vendors in my opinion. I think they still have the responsibility to follow the production for something they sell on their page and profit from. Like if I was a "proxy" vendor, I would occasionally send emails to "lead" vendor to get updates on what is going on. Again, since there is no clear definition on who is responsible from what, that is just my opinion. Also, of course we don't know what exactly happened, and maybe the other vendors asked about update and ilumkb said everything is going according to plan.
Also regarding to supporting vendors we trust, I really hope that in the future we can get multiple regional vendors. I feel like that can give option to customers to pick vendor they want rather than missing out a set they want, and having competition between vendors can only be a good thing for customers as each of them tries to make their service better than the others.
This is the exact same case here. Vendors not involved in the GB submission really have no say in the color matching process. They've already taken orders and submitted them. If customers don't like the final product they can return it for a refund, but it's not the 4th party vendors' responsibility to hold hands for the process. Most have a laundry list of their own stuff they're submitting and working on. The hope is that the vendor who handled the submission will push the designer and GMK to get it right. I have to imagine most designers and 3rd party vendors would get frustrated with 5 other regional vendors constantly telling them what they want, especially if those regional vendors don't agree with each other. Then what?
And the reason sales aren't spread across multiple vendors in the same region is logistics. It'd be a nightmare and costly to not bulk ship sets to a final destination. Not to mention the moq needed for production might be so small at some to not even be worth the time. Plus it's another product launch to handle, for every keyset instead of every 4th or 5th as vendors are rotated around now.
Dunno if this makes sense. If Samsung ships buggy phones, is Best Buy responsible for the phones being buggy? No. Best Buy will take returns and refund money, or the users can decide to wait for an update.
This is the exact same case here. Vendors not involved in the GB submission really have no say in the color matching process. They've already taken orders and submitted them. If customers don't like the final product they can return it for a refund, but it's not the 4th party vendors' responsibility to hold hands for the process. Most have a laundry list of their own stuff they're submitting and working on. The hope is that the vendor who handled the submission will push the designer and GMK to get it right. I have to imagine most designers and 3rd party vendors would get frustrated with 5 other regional vendors constantly telling them what they want, especially if those regional vendors don't agree with each other. Then what?
And the reason sales aren't spread across multiple vendors in the same region is logistics. It'd be a nightmare and costly to not bulk ship sets to a final destination. Not to mention the moq needed for production might be so small at some to not even be worth the time. Plus it's another product launch to handle, for every keyset instead of every 4th or 5th as vendors are rotated around now.
Dunno if this makes sense. If Samsung ships buggy phones, is Best Buy responsible for the phones being buggy? No. Best Buy will take returns and refund money, or the users can decide to wait for an update.Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.
ilumkb is the lead vendor. they are the ones placing the order with GMK and they get to see the sample color chips. cannonkeys and the other vendors have no input on any of this. they are just proxies. all they do is pay a factory invoice for the sets they order then wait. i kinda stopped reading after that. sorry.
I was basically agreeing with you, but way to make a conversation with people I guess... That said, them being lead vendor doesn't defer responsibility from other vendors in my opinion. I think they still have the responsibility to follow the production for something they sell on their page and profit from. Like if I was a "proxy" vendor, I would occasionally send emails to "lead" vendor to get updates on what is going on. Again, since there is no clear definition on who is responsible from what, that is just my opinion. Also, of course we don't know what exactly happened, and maybe the other vendors asked about update and ilumkb said everything is going according to plan.
Also regarding to supporting vendors we trust, I really hope that in the future we can get multiple regional vendors. I feel like that can give option to customers to pick vendor they want rather than missing out a set they want, and having competition between vendors can only be a good thing for customers as each of them tries to make their service better than the others.
This is the exact same case here. Vendors not involved in the GB submission really have no say in the color matching process. They've already taken orders and submitted them. If customers don't like the final product they can return it for a refund, but it's not the 4th party vendors' responsibility to hold hands for the process. Most have a laundry list of their own stuff they're submitting and working on. The hope is that the vendor who handled the submission will push the designer and GMK to get it right. I have to imagine most designers and 3rd party vendors would get frustrated with 5 other regional vendors constantly telling them what they want, especially if those regional vendors don't agree with each other. Then what?
And the reason sales aren't spread across multiple vendors in the same region is logistics. It'd be a nightmare and costly to not bulk ship sets to a final destination. Not to mention the moq needed for production might be so small at some to not even be worth the time. Plus it's another product launch to handle, for every keyset instead of every 4th or 5th as vendors are rotated around now.
I know CK will.People buy GMK because they know their quality, this isn't just an issue of oh **** renders didn't turn out right, this is an issue of the colors literally changing without the most transparency. I'm sure many people would much rather go for another round or two than the color being completely different from what they expected.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
I know CK will.People buy GMK because they know their quality, this isn't just an issue of oh **** renders didn't turn out right, this is an issue of the colors literally changing without the most transparency. I'm sure many people would much rather go for another round or two than the color being completely different from what they expected.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
Just replying to this since I think the other part of the reply was directed to the other user. Not sure if you have read everything I wrote, but as I mentioned, I don't expect all vendors to create a council discussing decisions. I am just saying they should be informed about what is going on about a product they sold either by lead vendor telling them, or them asking about it if lead vendor is not telling anything. And color matching process should be a science with actual numbers, not something you sit down and discuss based on what you see on your screen or even in front of you since not everyone has the same eye sight. Not sure why you want vendors to be in advantage rather than the customers. Instead of putting responsibility on to customers, maybe vendors should not sell things if they won't be able to follow up on the process due to having too many projects.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
Just replying to this since I think the other part of the reply was directed to the other user. Not sure if you have read everything I wrote, but as I mentioned, I don't expect all vendors to create a council discussing decisions. I am just saying they should be informed about what is going on about a product they sold either by lead vendor telling them, or them asking about it if lead vendor is not telling anything. And color matching process should be a science with actual numbers, not something you sit down and discuss based on what you see on your screen or even in front of you since not everyone has the same eye sight. Not sure why you want vendors to be in advantage rather than the customers. Instead of putting responsibility on to customers, maybe vendors should not sell things if they won't be able to follow up on the process due to having too many projects.
Well sure, but then you miss out on regional vendors. Then you end up paying international shipping and import fees. The reason for regional vendors is not because everyone wants to get rich (bread wasn't a ground breaking set as far as numbers go). It's because people prefer to purchase items from a vendor in their region.
But I agree, they should be informed. Did ilumkb inform the other vendors that the colors were off, I don't know, but I'd guess probably not. Did Gerg, that most definitely seems like a no. And again, if your unhappy with the keyset, you should contact the support of the vendor for a return. Most vendors will at least try to make things right. In previous sets where color matching was off (PnC for example), many people were OK with the set they received, even if it didn't match renders, and returns were sold out as extras, or were used for missing keys, etc.
I'm not putting customer nor vendor on a pedestal. Just trying to explain that in the world of keyset GBs it's not as simple as "vendors just fix it for everyone".
What are my responsibilities as a Group Buy organizer after creating the thread?
geekhack.org is a community of keyboard enthusiasts and not simply an advertising platform for keyboard-related sales. Thus we require that any group buy organizers who post their group buy threads in this section also provide updates in the thread they have started until the conclusion of the group buy, even if updates are also posted somewhere else. It is requested to post an update at least monthly, even if there is no progress in manufacturing.
Group buy threads made here are for group buy progress discussion as well as open discussion of any quality control issues. If a group buy organizer decides to provide an off-site instant message chat option for faster order support (for example Discord), any such communication needs to be optional when it comes to non-sensitive order information (individual support involving personal information is not required to, and should not, be posted in the public thread).
I mean...QuoteWhat are my responsibilities as a Group Buy organizer after creating the thread?
geekhack.org is a community of keyboard enthusiasts and not simply an advertising platform for keyboard-related sales. Thus we require that any group buy organizers who post their group buy threads in this section also provide updates in the thread they have started until the conclusion of the group buy, even if updates are also posted somewhere else. It is requested to post an update at least monthly, even if there is no progress in manufacturing.
Group buy threads made here are for group buy progress discussion as well as open discussion of any quality control issues. If a group buy organizer decides to provide an off-site instant message chat option for faster order support (for example Discord), any such communication needs to be optional when it comes to non-sensitive order information (individual support involving personal information is not required to, and should not, be posted in the public thread).
Clearly this requirement was not adhered to. I hope no future GB will be approved on GH for OP.
I mean...QuoteWhat are my responsibilities as a Group Buy organizer after creating the thread?
geekhack.org is a community of keyboard enthusiasts and not simply an advertising platform for keyboard-related sales. Thus we require that any group buy organizers who post their group buy threads in this section also provide updates in the thread they have started until the conclusion of the group buy, even if updates are also posted somewhere else. It is requested to post an update at least monthly, even if there is no progress in manufacturing.
Group buy threads made here are for group buy progress discussion as well as open discussion of any quality control issues. If a group buy organizer decides to provide an off-site instant message chat option for faster order support (for example Discord), any such communication needs to be optional when it comes to non-sensitive order information (individual support involving personal information is not required to, and should not, be posted in the public thread).
Clearly this requirement was not adhered to. I hope no future GB will be approved on GH for OP.
To be fair, if they ban this person because of that, then they have to ban 90% of the GB runners :D Until very recently, very few people were giving updates here but started changing now thankfully. I think maybe it would be helpful if mods or some autoreply bot also mention this rule(and any other important rules) when gb is approved, rather than just replying to thread with "Approved". So, people can't just claim that they weren't aware of the rule.
Oh yeah, I’m with you 1000% on this too. Transparency and by extension updates are really valuable and something I don’t see as many as I’d like to on this site. I think that’s partially due to designers not wanting to bother others with “unnecessary” bumps while other group buys are active. Is there some way to separate gb’s that are active from the rest? That way designers could update without fear of blocking out active gbs (and they’d have no excuse for not updating).You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.
Should I as a new designer be expected to disclose relevant career experience? Age?
I mean, I’m 100% with you that buyers need to have a better idea of designer competency, but I just don’t know how to communicate that.
I totally understand where you are coming from and maybe I didn't communicate clearly. There were 24 posts made in this GH thread in between first day launch and people showing photos of their kits in-hand. None of which I can see mentioned changes -- only an edited first post that had the mention of color changes in Discord tucked away. If you use this platform to promote your product you need to make updates happen on this platform. I love providing updates (new posts) on a regular basis regardless of good, bad, or boring and there are lots of people that do this. If you don't have prior business or sales experience the least you can do is update people along the way and check in with your customers.
MoreI mean...QuoteWhat are my responsibilities as a Group Buy organizer after creating the thread?
geekhack.org is a community of keyboard enthusiasts and not simply an advertising platform for keyboard-related sales. Thus we require that any group buy organizers who post their group buy threads in this section also provide updates in the thread they have started until the conclusion of the group buy, even if updates are also posted somewhere else. It is requested to post an update at least monthly, even if there is no progress in manufacturing.
Group buy threads made here are for group buy progress discussion as well as open discussion of any quality control issues. If a group buy organizer decides to provide an off-site instant message chat option for faster order support (for example Discord), any such communication needs to be optional when it comes to non-sensitive order information (individual support involving personal information is not required to, and should not, be posted in the public thread).
Clearly this requirement was not adhered to. I hope no future GB will be approved on GH for OP.
To be fair, if they ban this person because of that, then they have to ban 90% of the GB runners :D Until very recently, very few people were giving updates here but started changing now thankfully. I think maybe it would be helpful if mods or some autoreply bot also mention this rule(and any other important rules) when gb is approved, rather than just replying to thread with "Approved". So, people can't just claim that they weren't aware of the rule.
That rule was not officially in writing until just a few weeks ago, so we won't be banning organizers who didn't post updates in the past. Going forward, the rule will be enforced. Good call on posting a reminder link to the updated rules when approving, I will definitely be doing that. :)
I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Not to join in this argument too, but I gave you one solution and you seem to disregard anything that can potentially benefit customer as being too hard for vendors to do. So, you are not giving any solutions either, and simply disregarding any potential solution as well to make things easier for vendors. Clearly there is a problem with how things are now, and wanting to keep things to stay same just because it is hard to do changes is not a good way to improve anything in the hobby. Not just for a case like this but applies to everything. For example if people said it is too hard and bothersome to do renders, and it costs money, then we wouldn't have high quality ICs like we have now. Even on vendors' side, if they said it is too much money and it is troublesome to store all the in-stock items, then we wouldn't have many in-stock options now.
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
I mean they're warned it might not be exactly like the renders, or exactly what they expect, and if they're unhappy, can usually get a return. And then you factor in that some customers are happy with what they got, the majority actually keep their sets, there are very few returns. And then of course your glossing over the 20 other sets sold that year that turned out fine from that vendor.
Like i said, if you do the dramatic take, everyone is unhappy, and what was delivered was pieces of poop rather than keycaps. How dare they, lol.
And I'm just going to guess at this point that you didn't get GMK Bread at all. You don't seem like the type who'd hesitate to blame a vendor they bought this set from.
Ok. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
I mean they're warned it might not be exactly like the renders, or exactly what they expect, and if they're unhappy, can usually get a return. And then you factor in that some customers are happy with what they got, the majority actually keep their sets, there are very few returns. And then of course your glossing over the 20 other sets sold that year that turned out fine from that vendor.
Like i said, if you do the dramatic take, everyone is unhappy, and what was delivered was pieces of poop rather than keycaps. How dare they, lol.
And I'm just going to guess at this point that you didn't get GMK Bread at all. You don't seem like the type who'd hesitate to blame a vendor they bought this set from.
Here is where I tell you to pound sand on trying to get me to dox information about myself.
MoreOk. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
I mean they're warned it might not be exactly like the renders, or exactly what they expect, and if they're unhappy, can usually get a return. And then you factor in that some customers are happy with what they got, the majority actually keep their sets, there are very few returns. And then of course your glossing over the 20 other sets sold that year that turned out fine from that vendor.
Like i said, if you do the dramatic take, everyone is unhappy, and what was delivered was pieces of poop rather than keycaps. How dare they, lol.
And I'm just going to guess at this point that you didn't get GMK Bread at all. You don't seem like the type who'd hesitate to blame a vendor they bought this set from.
Here is where I tell you to pound sand on trying to get me to dox information about myself.
Heh, too funny. I'm fine letting this drop here.
MoreOk. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
I mean they're warned it might not be exactly like the renders, or exactly what they expect, and if they're unhappy, can usually get a return. And then you factor in that some customers are happy with what they got, the majority actually keep their sets, there are very few returns. And then of course your glossing over the 20 other sets sold that year that turned out fine from that vendor.
Like i said, if you do the dramatic take, everyone is unhappy, and what was delivered was pieces of poop rather than keycaps. How dare they, lol.
And I'm just going to guess at this point that you didn't get GMK Bread at all. You don't seem like the type who'd hesitate to blame a vendor they bought this set from.
Here is where I tell you to pound sand on trying to get me to dox information about myself.
Heh, too funny. I'm fine letting this drop here.
Ok, so I will reply some of the stuff you mention. Firstly, you asked me when you said you don't want things to change. You don't necessarily need to say stuff outright, it can be inferred from other things you say. You keep claiming things being hard to change. And even in that same reply you mention there being no solution. Nobody is asking vendors to go faster than light, of course there are solutions. It is just matter of how adamant customers are about change, and how willing vendors are about the sacrifices they have to make.
You mention that majority of people are not asking refund, so they are happy. I think you know the answer to this already, but here it is still. Of course people are not going to ask for refund since they can sell it for a better price in the aftermarket. Why would they want to go through the process of submitting ticket, waiting and hoping that vendor accepts their return and get the money they paid a year or more ago? And you might say, it is a good thing they just increased their money then, but I mentioned in one of my previous replies that it is not the point. Even if everyone was liking how this turned out better than the renders, still it doesn't make it acceptable. Also I assume there are a lot of people like me who likes the original render better, but doesn't necessarily hate how this set turned out either and keeps the set.
You say that Duke probably didn't actually buy the set, so his opinion is not valid. This is simply wrong even if they actually haven't bought the set. Unless they are some evil mastermind trying to crush the hobby, we are all here to improve the hobby since that benefits everyone. I don't know if Duke bought this set or not, but I am sure they want their experience to be better next time they buy aset, so of course they have the right to give their opinion. Since otherwise they can just tell you that your opinion about customer problems is not valid, because you are affiliated with a vendor and have your biases. And as I said, I am someone who bought the set. In case you don't believe me either, subscribe to my youtube(don't forget to smash the like button) and follow me on twitch, and eventually I will show it there. But just because I am keeping the set makes my opinion less valid than someone who is trying to return it?
Also, I should mention that I have 0 problems with any of the vendors in the keyboard hobby including the ones mentioned here. I have bought stuff from ilumkb, bought stuff from CK and have stuff that I am waiting to arrive, and stuff that I am planning to buy. I am just trying to discuss what are potential improvements to the process so this doesn't happen. I know Duke wasn't including the color matching issues into this category, but I personally would even add that as well to make it more likely that customers get what they see. Since you ask for solutions, my solution for this would be vendors agreeing on a delta value for how close is acceptable, then with proper scientific color matching all the vendors would be notified with the result. If it is inside the previously agreed range then it would be accepted, otherwise rejected. So, there wouldn't be "too many chefs in one kitchen" situation you mentioned. And in the end all the vendors, and their respective consumers would be notified.
MoreOk. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
I mean they're warned it might not be exactly like the renders, or exactly what they expect, and if they're unhappy, can usually get a return. And then you factor in that some customers are happy with what they got, the majority actually keep their sets, there are very few returns. And then of course your glossing over the 20 other sets sold that year that turned out fine from that vendor.
Like i said, if you do the dramatic take, everyone is unhappy, and what was delivered was pieces of poop rather than keycaps. How dare they, lol.
And I'm just going to guess at this point that you didn't get GMK Bread at all. You don't seem like the type who'd hesitate to blame a vendor they bought this set from.
Here is where I tell you to pound sand on trying to get me to dox information about myself.
Heh, too funny. I'm fine letting this drop here.
Ok, so I will reply some of the stuff you mention. Firstly, you asked me when you said you don't want things to change. You don't necessarily need to say stuff outright, it can be inferred from other things you say. You keep claiming things being hard to change. And even in that same reply you mention there being no solution. Nobody is asking vendors to go faster than light, of course there are solutions. It is just matter of how adamant customers are about change, and how willing vendors are about the sacrifices they have to make.
You mention that majority of people are not asking refund, so they are happy. I think you know the answer to this already, but here it is still. Of course people are not going to ask for refund since they can sell it for a better price in the aftermarket. Why would they want to go through the process of submitting ticket, waiting and hoping that vendor accepts their return and get the money they paid a year or more ago? And you might say, it is a good thing they just increased their money then, but I mentioned in one of my previous replies that it is not the point. Even if everyone was liking how this turned out better than the renders, still it doesn't make it acceptable. Also I assume there are a lot of people like me who likes the original render better, but doesn't necessarily hate how this set turned out either and keeps the set.
I never said I don't want things to change. I just said the current system is what it is because of the nature of GBs. I'm open to any solutions, but they have to be practical. I think you hit it on the head tho. If most buyers are happy, even with the mistakes, and vendors would be required to sacrifice to fix those for the few that aren't, is it worth the effort? I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see it done. Just being practical. I think putting more pressure on designers and submitting vendors is the correct move. I don't think adding 5 more pairs of hands to the pot will help, and could hurt, in getting some of these sets to market.You say that Duke probably didn't actually buy the set, so his opinion is not valid. This is simply wrong even if they actually haven't bought the set. Unless they are some evil mastermind trying to crush the hobby, we are all here to improve the hobby since that benefits everyone. I don't know if Duke bought this set or not, but I am sure they want their experience to be better next time they buy aset, so of course they have the right to give their opinion. Since otherwise they can just tell you that your opinion about customer problems is not valid, because you are affiliated with a vendor and have your biases. And as I said, I am someone who bought the set. In case you don't believe me either, subscribe to my youtube(don't forget to smash the like button) and follow me on twitch, and eventually I will show it there. But just because I am keeping the set makes my opinion less valid than someone who is trying to return it?
Honestly getting Duke to admit he didn't even buy the set he's railing about is secondary. It's an annoying thing seen in geekhack threads all the time. People bashing vendors when A) they weren't even involved in that buy, B) they don't even have a negative experience with that vendor, and C) they get unecessarily nasty because they feel they need to white knight it for people who actually are ok with it.
Primarily, I honestly wanted to know if he had a bad experience with a proxy vendor and who it was. If it was CK I would have tried to help him reach a happy outcome. Unfortunate he's an internet warrior and assumed I was trying to dox him by simply knowing who he bought it from, which is silly.Also, I should mention that I have 0 problems with any of the vendors in the keyboard hobby including the ones mentioned here. I have bought stuff from ilumkb, bought stuff from CK and have stuff that I am waiting to arrive, and stuff that I am planning to buy. I am just trying to discuss what are potential improvements to the process so this doesn't happen. I know Duke wasn't including the color matching issues into this category, but I personally would even add that as well to make it more likely that customers get what they see. Since you ask for solutions, my solution for this would be vendors agreeing on a delta value for how close is acceptable, then with proper scientific color matching all the vendors would be notified with the result. If it is inside the previously agreed range then it would be accepted, otherwise rejected. So, there wouldn't be "too many chefs in one kitchen" situation you mentioned. And in the end all the vendors, and their respective consumers would be notified.
And I think we could try it. I've just seen people argue over slight shades of purple for days here. Now bread was much worse then that. But I do have concerns it would just create another delay loop and frustration for both buyers and vendors. I mean the reality is, both submitting vendor and designer should be able to handle this. And many times they do. They just do. Trying to widen the net of those responsible points more fingers, sure. But like, why'd it even have to get to that point in this case. Like anyone looking at that should have asked for another round. Haha.
MoreOk. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
I mean they're warned it might not be exactly like the renders, or exactly what they expect, and if they're unhappy, can usually get a return. And then you factor in that some customers are happy with what they got, the majority actually keep their sets, there are very few returns. And then of course your glossing over the 20 other sets sold that year that turned out fine from that vendor.
Like i said, if you do the dramatic take, everyone is unhappy, and what was delivered was pieces of poop rather than keycaps. How dare they, lol.
And I'm just going to guess at this point that you didn't get GMK Bread at all. You don't seem like the type who'd hesitate to blame a vendor they bought this set from.
Here is where I tell you to pound sand on trying to get me to dox information about myself.
Heh, too funny. I'm fine letting this drop here.
Ok, so I will reply some of the stuff you mention. Firstly, you asked me when you said you don't want things to change. You don't necessarily need to say stuff outright, it can be inferred from other things you say. You keep claiming things being hard to change. And even in that same reply you mention there being no solution. Nobody is asking vendors to go faster than light, of course there are solutions. It is just matter of how adamant customers are about change, and how willing vendors are about the sacrifices they have to make.
You mention that majority of people are not asking refund, so they are happy. I think you know the answer to this already, but here it is still. Of course people are not going to ask for refund since they can sell it for a better price in the aftermarket. Why would they want to go through the process of submitting ticket, waiting and hoping that vendor accepts their return and get the money they paid a year or more ago? And you might say, it is a good thing they just increased their money then, but I mentioned in one of my previous replies that it is not the point. Even if everyone was liking how this turned out better than the renders, still it doesn't make it acceptable. Also I assume there are a lot of people like me who likes the original render better, but doesn't necessarily hate how this set turned out either and keeps the set.
I never said I don't want things to change. I just said the current system is what it is because of the nature of GBs. I'm open to any solutions, but they have to be practical. I think you hit it on the head tho. If most buyers are happy, even with the mistakes, and vendors would be required to sacrifice to fix those for the few that aren't, is it worth the effort? I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see it done. Just being practical. I think putting more pressure on designers and submitting vendors is the correct move. I don't think adding 5 more pairs of hands to the pot will help, and could hurt, in getting some of these sets to market.You say that Duke probably didn't actually buy the set, so his opinion is not valid. This is simply wrong even if they actually haven't bought the set. Unless they are some evil mastermind trying to crush the hobby, we are all here to improve the hobby since that benefits everyone. I don't know if Duke bought this set or not, but I am sure they want their experience to be better next time they buy aset, so of course they have the right to give their opinion. Since otherwise they can just tell you that your opinion about customer problems is not valid, because you are affiliated with a vendor and have your biases. And as I said, I am someone who bought the set. In case you don't believe me either, subscribe to my youtube(don't forget to smash the like button) and follow me on twitch, and eventually I will show it there. But just because I am keeping the set makes my opinion less valid than someone who is trying to return it?
Honestly getting Duke to admit he didn't even buy the set he's railing about is secondary. It's an annoying thing seen in geekhack threads all the time. People bashing vendors when A) they weren't even involved in that buy, B) they don't even have a negative experience with that vendor, and C) they get unecessarily nasty because they feel they need to white knight it for people who actually are ok with it.
Primarily, I honestly wanted to know if he had a bad experience with a proxy vendor and who it was. If it was CK I would have tried to help him reach a happy outcome. Unfortunate he's an internet warrior and assumed I was trying to dox him by simply knowing who he bought it from, which is silly.Also, I should mention that I have 0 problems with any of the vendors in the keyboard hobby including the ones mentioned here. I have bought stuff from ilumkb, bought stuff from CK and have stuff that I am waiting to arrive, and stuff that I am planning to buy. I am just trying to discuss what are potential improvements to the process so this doesn't happen. I know Duke wasn't including the color matching issues into this category, but I personally would even add that as well to make it more likely that customers get what they see. Since you ask for solutions, my solution for this would be vendors agreeing on a delta value for how close is acceptable, then with proper scientific color matching all the vendors would be notified with the result. If it is inside the previously agreed range then it would be accepted, otherwise rejected. So, there wouldn't be "too many chefs in one kitchen" situation you mentioned. And in the end all the vendors, and their respective consumers would be notified.
And I think we could try it. I've just seen people argue over slight shades of purple for days here. Now bread was much worse then that. But I do have concerns it would just create another delay loop and frustration for both buyers and vendors. I mean the reality is, both submitting vendor and designer should be able to handle this. And many times they do. They just do. Trying to widen the net of those responsible points more fingers, sure. But like, why'd it even have to get to that point in this case. Like anyone looking at that should have asked for another round. Haha.
I bought my set from CK and I've since sold it. Does that change anything? Does that make my opinion on how vendors and GB runners should treat customers invalid?
I'll wait for the back peddle of "well, since you sold it, your opinion doesn't matter even if you did buy it. No need for refund right?"
The point of this discussion is to bring to light bad behavior in the GB community which is based on trust.
This is not a GoFundMe.
MoreOk. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
I mean they're warned it might not be exactly like the renders, or exactly what they expect, and if they're unhappy, can usually get a return. And then you factor in that some customers are happy with what they got, the majority actually keep their sets, there are very few returns. And then of course your glossing over the 20 other sets sold that year that turned out fine from that vendor.
Like i said, if you do the dramatic take, everyone is unhappy, and what was delivered was pieces of poop rather than keycaps. How dare they, lol.
And I'm just going to guess at this point that you didn't get GMK Bread at all. You don't seem like the type who'd hesitate to blame a vendor they bought this set from.
Here is where I tell you to pound sand on trying to get me to dox information about myself.
Heh, too funny. I'm fine letting this drop here.
Ok, so I will reply some of the stuff you mention. Firstly, you asked me when you said you don't want things to change. You don't necessarily need to say stuff outright, it can be inferred from other things you say. You keep claiming things being hard to change. And even in that same reply you mention there being no solution. Nobody is asking vendors to go faster than light, of course there are solutions. It is just matter of how adamant customers are about change, and how willing vendors are about the sacrifices they have to make.
You mention that majority of people are not asking refund, so they are happy. I think you know the answer to this already, but here it is still. Of course people are not going to ask for refund since they can sell it for a better price in the aftermarket. Why would they want to go through the process of submitting ticket, waiting and hoping that vendor accepts their return and get the money they paid a year or more ago? And you might say, it is a good thing they just increased their money then, but I mentioned in one of my previous replies that it is not the point. Even if everyone was liking how this turned out better than the renders, still it doesn't make it acceptable. Also I assume there are a lot of people like me who likes the original render better, but doesn't necessarily hate how this set turned out either and keeps the set.
I never said I don't want things to change. I just said the current system is what it is because of the nature of GBs. I'm open to any solutions, but they have to be practical. I think you hit it on the head tho. If most buyers are happy, even with the mistakes, and vendors would be required to sacrifice to fix those for the few that aren't, is it worth the effort? I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see it done. Just being practical. I think putting more pressure on designers and submitting vendors is the correct move. I don't think adding 5 more pairs of hands to the pot will help, and could hurt, in getting some of these sets to market.You say that Duke probably didn't actually buy the set, so his opinion is not valid. This is simply wrong even if they actually haven't bought the set. Unless they are some evil mastermind trying to crush the hobby, we are all here to improve the hobby since that benefits everyone. I don't know if Duke bought this set or not, but I am sure they want their experience to be better next time they buy aset, so of course they have the right to give their opinion. Since otherwise they can just tell you that your opinion about customer problems is not valid, because you are affiliated with a vendor and have your biases. And as I said, I am someone who bought the set. In case you don't believe me either, subscribe to my youtube(don't forget to smash the like button) and follow me on twitch, and eventually I will show it there. But just because I am keeping the set makes my opinion less valid than someone who is trying to return it?
Honestly getting Duke to admit he didn't even buy the set he's railing about is secondary. It's an annoying thing seen in geekhack threads all the time. People bashing vendors when A) they weren't even involved in that buy, B) they don't even have a negative experience with that vendor, and C) they get unecessarily nasty because they feel they need to white knight it for people who actually are ok with it.
Primarily, I honestly wanted to know if he had a bad experience with a proxy vendor and who it was. If it was CK I would have tried to help him reach a happy outcome. Unfortunate he's an internet warrior and assumed I was trying to dox him by simply knowing who he bought it from, which is silly.Also, I should mention that I have 0 problems with any of the vendors in the keyboard hobby including the ones mentioned here. I have bought stuff from ilumkb, bought stuff from CK and have stuff that I am waiting to arrive, and stuff that I am planning to buy. I am just trying to discuss what are potential improvements to the process so this doesn't happen. I know Duke wasn't including the color matching issues into this category, but I personally would even add that as well to make it more likely that customers get what they see. Since you ask for solutions, my solution for this would be vendors agreeing on a delta value for how close is acceptable, then with proper scientific color matching all the vendors would be notified with the result. If it is inside the previously agreed range then it would be accepted, otherwise rejected. So, there wouldn't be "too many chefs in one kitchen" situation you mentioned. And in the end all the vendors, and their respective consumers would be notified.
And I think we could try it. I've just seen people argue over slight shades of purple for days here. Now bread was much worse then that. But I do have concerns it would just create another delay loop and frustration for both buyers and vendors. I mean the reality is, both submitting vendor and designer should be able to handle this. And many times they do. They just do. Trying to widen the net of those responsible points more fingers, sure. But like, why'd it even have to get to that point in this case. Like anyone looking at that should have asked for another round. Haha.
I bought my set from CK and I've since sold it. Does that change anything? Does that make my opinion on how vendors and GB runners should treat customers invalid?
I'll wait for the back peddle of "well, since you sold it, your opinion doesn't matter even if you did buy it. No need for refund right?"
The point of this discussion is to bring to light bad behavior in the GB community which is based on trust.
This is not a GoFundMe.
Lol. Calm down buddy. I'm glad you found someone to buy it if you didn't like it. Just think it's funny to rag on CK support when you didn't even try it, and address them with such spite without even reaching out.
Hard for CK to treat you as invalid if you didn't even try to broach the conversation. Just saying. No need to get so salty about it. Constructive feedback straight to the source has its impact.
In the end vendors here do way more for the community than most crowd sourcing platforms, and in the end GBs are very much crowd sourcing. Most vendors can't support a 400 set buy by themselves. And unlike platforms like Kickstarter, vendors do a lot of customer support and try to work things out for their customers.
I hope things improve to a level your satisfied with.
I dunno. I haven't felt the need to insult you personally besides you telling me to pound dust and calling me a bootlicker. But sure. You seem happy.MoreOk. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
I mean they're warned it might not be exactly like the renders, or exactly what they expect, and if they're unhappy, can usually get a return. And then you factor in that some customers are happy with what they got, the majority actually keep their sets, there are very few returns. And then of course your glossing over the 20 other sets sold that year that turned out fine from that vendor.
Like i said, if you do the dramatic take, everyone is unhappy, and what was delivered was pieces of poop rather than keycaps. How dare they, lol.
And I'm just going to guess at this point that you didn't get GMK Bread at all. You don't seem like the type who'd hesitate to blame a vendor they bought this set from.
Here is where I tell you to pound sand on trying to get me to dox information about myself.
Heh, too funny. I'm fine letting this drop here.
Ok, so I will reply some of the stuff you mention. Firstly, you asked me when you said you don't want things to change. You don't necessarily need to say stuff outright, it can be inferred from other things you say. You keep claiming things being hard to change. And even in that same reply you mention there being no solution. Nobody is asking vendors to go faster than light, of course there are solutions. It is just matter of how adamant customers are about change, and how willing vendors are about the sacrifices they have to make.
You mention that majority of people are not asking refund, so they are happy. I think you know the answer to this already, but here it is still. Of course people are not going to ask for refund since they can sell it for a better price in the aftermarket. Why would they want to go through the process of submitting ticket, waiting and hoping that vendor accepts their return and get the money they paid a year or more ago? And you might say, it is a good thing they just increased their money then, but I mentioned in one of my previous replies that it is not the point. Even if everyone was liking how this turned out better than the renders, still it doesn't make it acceptable. Also I assume there are a lot of people like me who likes the original render better, but doesn't necessarily hate how this set turned out either and keeps the set.
I never said I don't want things to change. I just said the current system is what it is because of the nature of GBs. I'm open to any solutions, but they have to be practical. I think you hit it on the head tho. If most buyers are happy, even with the mistakes, and vendors would be required to sacrifice to fix those for the few that aren't, is it worth the effort? I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see it done. Just being practical. I think putting more pressure on designers and submitting vendors is the correct move. I don't think adding 5 more pairs of hands to the pot will help, and could hurt, in getting some of these sets to market.You say that Duke probably didn't actually buy the set, so his opinion is not valid. This is simply wrong even if they actually haven't bought the set. Unless they are some evil mastermind trying to crush the hobby, we are all here to improve the hobby since that benefits everyone. I don't know if Duke bought this set or not, but I am sure they want their experience to be better next time they buy aset, so of course they have the right to give their opinion. Since otherwise they can just tell you that your opinion about customer problems is not valid, because you are affiliated with a vendor and have your biases. And as I said, I am someone who bought the set. In case you don't believe me either, subscribe to my youtube(don't forget to smash the like button) and follow me on twitch, and eventually I will show it there. But just because I am keeping the set makes my opinion less valid than someone who is trying to return it?
Honestly getting Duke to admit he didn't even buy the set he's railing about is secondary. It's an annoying thing seen in geekhack threads all the time. People bashing vendors when A) they weren't even involved in that buy, B) they don't even have a negative experience with that vendor, and C) they get unecessarily nasty because they feel they need to white knight it for people who actually are ok with it.
Primarily, I honestly wanted to know if he had a bad experience with a proxy vendor and who it was. If it was CK I would have tried to help him reach a happy outcome. Unfortunate he's an internet warrior and assumed I was trying to dox him by simply knowing who he bought it from, which is silly.Also, I should mention that I have 0 problems with any of the vendors in the keyboard hobby including the ones mentioned here. I have bought stuff from ilumkb, bought stuff from CK and have stuff that I am waiting to arrive, and stuff that I am planning to buy. I am just trying to discuss what are potential improvements to the process so this doesn't happen. I know Duke wasn't including the color matching issues into this category, but I personally would even add that as well to make it more likely that customers get what they see. Since you ask for solutions, my solution for this would be vendors agreeing on a delta value for how close is acceptable, then with proper scientific color matching all the vendors would be notified with the result. If it is inside the previously agreed range then it would be accepted, otherwise rejected. So, there wouldn't be "too many chefs in one kitchen" situation you mentioned. And in the end all the vendors, and their respective consumers would be notified.
And I think we could try it. I've just seen people argue over slight shades of purple for days here. Now bread was much worse then that. But I do have concerns it would just create another delay loop and frustration for both buyers and vendors. I mean the reality is, both submitting vendor and designer should be able to handle this. And many times they do. They just do. Trying to widen the net of those responsible points more fingers, sure. But like, why'd it even have to get to that point in this case. Like anyone looking at that should have asked for another round. Haha.
I bought my set from CK and I've since sold it. Does that change anything? Does that make my opinion on how vendors and GB runners should treat customers invalid?
I'll wait for the back peddle of "well, since you sold it, your opinion doesn't matter even if you did buy it. No need for refund right?"
The point of this discussion is to bring to light bad behavior in the GB community which is based on trust.
This is not a GoFundMe.
Lol. Calm down buddy. I'm glad you found someone to buy it if you didn't like it. Just think it's funny to rag on CK support when you didn't even try it, and address them with such spite without even reaching out.
Hard for CK to treat you as invalid if you didn't even try to broach the conversation. Just saying. No need to get so salty about it. Constructive feedback straight to the source has its impact.
In the end vendors here do way more for the community than most crowd sourcing platforms, and in the end GBs are very much crowd sourcing. Most vendors can't support a 400 set buy by themselves. And unlike platforms like Kickstarter, vendors do a lot of customer support and try to work things out for their customers.
I hope things improve to a level your satisfied with.
Haha, you are so predictable. Don't worry. I'm not upset nor am I salty.
If you want constructive criticism, you can refer to my prior posts.
I dunno. I haven't felt the need to insult you personally besides you telling me to pound dust and calling me a bootlicker. But sure. You seem happy.MoreOk. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
I mean they're warned it might not be exactly like the renders, or exactly what they expect, and if they're unhappy, can usually get a return. And then you factor in that some customers are happy with what they got, the majority actually keep their sets, there are very few returns. And then of course your glossing over the 20 other sets sold that year that turned out fine from that vendor.
Like i said, if you do the dramatic take, everyone is unhappy, and what was delivered was pieces of poop rather than keycaps. How dare they, lol.
And I'm just going to guess at this point that you didn't get GMK Bread at all. You don't seem like the type who'd hesitate to blame a vendor they bought this set from.
Here is where I tell you to pound sand on trying to get me to dox information about myself.
Heh, too funny. I'm fine letting this drop here.
Ok, so I will reply some of the stuff you mention. Firstly, you asked me when you said you don't want things to change. You don't necessarily need to say stuff outright, it can be inferred from other things you say. You keep claiming things being hard to change. And even in that same reply you mention there being no solution. Nobody is asking vendors to go faster than light, of course there are solutions. It is just matter of how adamant customers are about change, and how willing vendors are about the sacrifices they have to make.
You mention that majority of people are not asking refund, so they are happy. I think you know the answer to this already, but here it is still. Of course people are not going to ask for refund since they can sell it for a better price in the aftermarket. Why would they want to go through the process of submitting ticket, waiting and hoping that vendor accepts their return and get the money they paid a year or more ago? And you might say, it is a good thing they just increased their money then, but I mentioned in one of my previous replies that it is not the point. Even if everyone was liking how this turned out better than the renders, still it doesn't make it acceptable. Also I assume there are a lot of people like me who likes the original render better, but doesn't necessarily hate how this set turned out either and keeps the set.
I never said I don't want things to change. I just said the current system is what it is because of the nature of GBs. I'm open to any solutions, but they have to be practical. I think you hit it on the head tho. If most buyers are happy, even with the mistakes, and vendors would be required to sacrifice to fix those for the few that aren't, is it worth the effort? I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see it done. Just being practical. I think putting more pressure on designers and submitting vendors is the correct move. I don't think adding 5 more pairs of hands to the pot will help, and could hurt, in getting some of these sets to market.You say that Duke probably didn't actually buy the set, so his opinion is not valid. This is simply wrong even if they actually haven't bought the set. Unless they are some evil mastermind trying to crush the hobby, we are all here to improve the hobby since that benefits everyone. I don't know if Duke bought this set or not, but I am sure they want their experience to be better next time they buy aset, so of course they have the right to give their opinion. Since otherwise they can just tell you that your opinion about customer problems is not valid, because you are affiliated with a vendor and have your biases. And as I said, I am someone who bought the set. In case you don't believe me either, subscribe to my youtube(don't forget to smash the like button) and follow me on twitch, and eventually I will show it there. But just because I am keeping the set makes my opinion less valid than someone who is trying to return it?
Honestly getting Duke to admit he didn't even buy the set he's railing about is secondary. It's an annoying thing seen in geekhack threads all the time. People bashing vendors when A) they weren't even involved in that buy, B) they don't even have a negative experience with that vendor, and C) they get unecessarily nasty because they feel they need to white knight it for people who actually are ok with it.
Primarily, I honestly wanted to know if he had a bad experience with a proxy vendor and who it was. If it was CK I would have tried to help him reach a happy outcome. Unfortunate he's an internet warrior and assumed I was trying to dox him by simply knowing who he bought it from, which is silly.Also, I should mention that I have 0 problems with any of the vendors in the keyboard hobby including the ones mentioned here. I have bought stuff from ilumkb, bought stuff from CK and have stuff that I am waiting to arrive, and stuff that I am planning to buy. I am just trying to discuss what are potential improvements to the process so this doesn't happen. I know Duke wasn't including the color matching issues into this category, but I personally would even add that as well to make it more likely that customers get what they see. Since you ask for solutions, my solution for this would be vendors agreeing on a delta value for how close is acceptable, then with proper scientific color matching all the vendors would be notified with the result. If it is inside the previously agreed range then it would be accepted, otherwise rejected. So, there wouldn't be "too many chefs in one kitchen" situation you mentioned. And in the end all the vendors, and their respective consumers would be notified.
And I think we could try it. I've just seen people argue over slight shades of purple for days here. Now bread was much worse then that. But I do have concerns it would just create another delay loop and frustration for both buyers and vendors. I mean the reality is, both submitting vendor and designer should be able to handle this. And many times they do. They just do. Trying to widen the net of those responsible points more fingers, sure. But like, why'd it even have to get to that point in this case. Like anyone looking at that should have asked for another round. Haha.
I bought my set from CK and I've since sold it. Does that change anything? Does that make my opinion on how vendors and GB runners should treat customers invalid?
I'll wait for the back peddle of "well, since you sold it, your opinion doesn't matter even if you did buy it. No need for refund right?"
The point of this discussion is to bring to light bad behavior in the GB community which is based on trust.
This is not a GoFundMe.
Lol. Calm down buddy. I'm glad you found someone to buy it if you didn't like it. Just think it's funny to rag on CK support when you didn't even try it, and address them with such spite without even reaching out.
Hard for CK to treat you as invalid if you didn't even try to broach the conversation. Just saying. No need to get so salty about it. Constructive feedback straight to the source has its impact.
In the end vendors here do way more for the community than most crowd sourcing platforms, and in the end GBs are very much crowd sourcing. Most vendors can't support a 400 set buy by themselves. And unlike platforms like Kickstarter, vendors do a lot of customer support and try to work things out for their customers.
I hope things improve to a level your satisfied with.
Haha, you are so predictable. Don't worry. I'm not upset nor am I salty.
If you want constructive criticism, you can refer to my prior posts.
It's true. There's probably a way to fix this. Vendors attempt to help when these issues arise, but more transparency during color matching prior to submission would be great. Hopefully the new GH rules will enforce that.I dunno. I haven't felt the need to insult you personally besides you telling me to pound dust and calling me a bootlicker. But sure. You seem happy.MoreOk. So solutions. Greg and ilumkb didn't let CK know they changed it last second. What should CK do? What should they have done? Better to come up with something than just flail at the air.I know CK will. Or at least they have a couple times in the past when people were unhappy with keyset colors.
And I wasn't telling you to be sympathetic. I was informing you of the reality. If you want products with known quality don't join GBs. Nobody is forcing anyone to join GBs. Most vendors have warnings concerning GB, specifically keysets, and color matching, as well. Any time you buy any product based purely on a render, there's always the likelihood (it's pretty much guaranteed) that the final product won't be exactly the same.
You don't support poor color matching, find vendors whose submissions you trust, or designer who will do their due diligence. Support them. Asking 6 vendors to get involved in the color matching process is both unnecessary (assuming the submitting vendor does their job, and the designer agrees to it) and a nightmare. If we went down this road prepare for every keyset to go through 8 rounds of color matching AFTER they've taken your money.
You don't need to "inform" me of the realities. I've been around this hobby longer than you have.
This isn't a color matching problem. This is a "changing the color code after the GB closed" problem.
I assume you are aware of that, but decided to try to dodge it because it works better for your narrative. Just want to steer the narrative back on solid factual grounds.
Refunds & returns, discounts for future products, apology email, promises to have better processes in the future including requiring the main vendor to keep everyone in the loop on color matching, refuse to be proxy for any main vendor that doesn't follow these procedures....etc. Even a mere acknowledge of "we ****ed up by relying on the main vendor and we won't do it again" would be SOMETHING.
That was just off the top of my head.
CK isn't a volunteer. They can't sell a product and tell consumers to pound sand if something goes wrong.
That said, I know your reputation so I'm sure any request that any vendor take any responsibility other than collecting money will just leave to complete aghast at the suggestion.
Most vendors handle returns, refunds, though it's normally on a case by case basis. Discounts for future products is a tall ask for any part time vendor, that's just silly. Most aren't swimming in profit margins, especially if trying to grow their business.
The rest of what you said, does happen, behind the scenes. Vendors choose all the time who they will proxy for depending on their reliability. It's likely proxy vendors in this buy had no reason to expect or doubt ilumkb to do it's due diligence. They're a respected vendor. I imagine some might change their mind now, which is what you suggested, so...
I agree that greater transparency is a good thing, but this has always been the case. And transparency can be both a blessing and a curse. Should vendors throw other vendors under buses for a single wrong knowing that they normally do right, and miss out on future business? Every buyer in this community likes to talk a big game like they'll buy more from the better vendors next time (I mean how many times have we seen people swear 40 kits will hit moq only to have them not actually hit moq), when in reality it's a minority that comes to vent in forums, or people who aren't even involved in a buy dog-piling to generate drama. Is there actual incentive in the community to put forth 3 or 4 times more effort to insure these things don't happen?
And again, your just being dramatic. Where has CK told people to "pound sand". And my reputation, lol. I guess if pragmatism is a reputation I have i'll gladly continue. It's quite sad that's all you think vendors do, definitely some fine threads of disingenuous cynicism and entitlement in there. But you seem to be taking this much harder then I am. Where did you buy your set from? did they refuse to refund you?
I know vendors very well. I know what they do.
BTW, has anyone ever used the term "entitled" as an insult and not been in the wrong? It's almost always used by someone who is defending someone that screwed up and doesn't want to take ownership.
I mean i just call it how it is. When someone demands support or recompense and then claims the party they expect it from does nothing, even though they do, it sounds entitled. No? Your a self-proclaimed OG, you remember times prior to vendors right? They were pretty rough. Clearly vendors do more than just take money, cause like, that's what we used to have, heh.
Still curious where you bought your set from, and whether you tried to get anything resolved?
God forbid customers get what they ordered, right? Very entitled.
I mean they're warned it might not be exactly like the renders, or exactly what they expect, and if they're unhappy, can usually get a return. And then you factor in that some customers are happy with what they got, the majority actually keep their sets, there are very few returns. And then of course your glossing over the 20 other sets sold that year that turned out fine from that vendor.
Like i said, if you do the dramatic take, everyone is unhappy, and what was delivered was pieces of poop rather than keycaps. How dare they, lol.
And I'm just going to guess at this point that you didn't get GMK Bread at all. You don't seem like the type who'd hesitate to blame a vendor they bought this set from.
Here is where I tell you to pound sand on trying to get me to dox information about myself.
Heh, too funny. I'm fine letting this drop here.
Ok, so I will reply some of the stuff you mention. Firstly, you asked me when you said you don't want things to change. You don't necessarily need to say stuff outright, it can be inferred from other things you say. You keep claiming things being hard to change. And even in that same reply you mention there being no solution. Nobody is asking vendors to go faster than light, of course there are solutions. It is just matter of how adamant customers are about change, and how willing vendors are about the sacrifices they have to make.
You mention that majority of people are not asking refund, so they are happy. I think you know the answer to this already, but here it is still. Of course people are not going to ask for refund since they can sell it for a better price in the aftermarket. Why would they want to go through the process of submitting ticket, waiting and hoping that vendor accepts their return and get the money they paid a year or more ago? And you might say, it is a good thing they just increased their money then, but I mentioned in one of my previous replies that it is not the point. Even if everyone was liking how this turned out better than the renders, still it doesn't make it acceptable. Also I assume there are a lot of people like me who likes the original render better, but doesn't necessarily hate how this set turned out either and keeps the set.
I never said I don't want things to change. I just said the current system is what it is because of the nature of GBs. I'm open to any solutions, but they have to be practical. I think you hit it on the head tho. If most buyers are happy, even with the mistakes, and vendors would be required to sacrifice to fix those for the few that aren't, is it worth the effort? I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see it done. Just being practical. I think putting more pressure on designers and submitting vendors is the correct move. I don't think adding 5 more pairs of hands to the pot will help, and could hurt, in getting some of these sets to market.You say that Duke probably didn't actually buy the set, so his opinion is not valid. This is simply wrong even if they actually haven't bought the set. Unless they are some evil mastermind trying to crush the hobby, we are all here to improve the hobby since that benefits everyone. I don't know if Duke bought this set or not, but I am sure they want their experience to be better next time they buy aset, so of course they have the right to give their opinion. Since otherwise they can just tell you that your opinion about customer problems is not valid, because you are affiliated with a vendor and have your biases. And as I said, I am someone who bought the set. In case you don't believe me either, subscribe to my youtube(don't forget to smash the like button) and follow me on twitch, and eventually I will show it there. But just because I am keeping the set makes my opinion less valid than someone who is trying to return it?
Honestly getting Duke to admit he didn't even buy the set he's railing about is secondary. It's an annoying thing seen in geekhack threads all the time. People bashing vendors when A) they weren't even involved in that buy, B) they don't even have a negative experience with that vendor, and C) they get unecessarily nasty because they feel they need to white knight it for people who actually are ok with it.
Primarily, I honestly wanted to know if he had a bad experience with a proxy vendor and who it was. If it was CK I would have tried to help him reach a happy outcome. Unfortunate he's an internet warrior and assumed I was trying to dox him by simply knowing who he bought it from, which is silly.Also, I should mention that I have 0 problems with any of the vendors in the keyboard hobby including the ones mentioned here. I have bought stuff from ilumkb, bought stuff from CK and have stuff that I am waiting to arrive, and stuff that I am planning to buy. I am just trying to discuss what are potential improvements to the process so this doesn't happen. I know Duke wasn't including the color matching issues into this category, but I personally would even add that as well to make it more likely that customers get what they see. Since you ask for solutions, my solution for this would be vendors agreeing on a delta value for how close is acceptable, then with proper scientific color matching all the vendors would be notified with the result. If it is inside the previously agreed range then it would be accepted, otherwise rejected. So, there wouldn't be "too many chefs in one kitchen" situation you mentioned. And in the end all the vendors, and their respective consumers would be notified.
And I think we could try it. I've just seen people argue over slight shades of purple for days here. Now bread was much worse then that. But I do have concerns it would just create another delay loop and frustration for both buyers and vendors. I mean the reality is, both submitting vendor and designer should be able to handle this. And many times they do. They just do. Trying to widen the net of those responsible points more fingers, sure. But like, why'd it even have to get to that point in this case. Like anyone looking at that should have asked for another round. Haha.
I bought my set from CK and I've since sold it. Does that change anything? Does that make my opinion on how vendors and GB runners should treat customers invalid?
I'll wait for the back peddle of "well, since you sold it, your opinion doesn't matter even if you did buy it. No need for refund right?"
The point of this discussion is to bring to light bad behavior in the GB community which is based on trust.
This is not a GoFundMe.
Lol. Calm down buddy. I'm glad you found someone to buy it if you didn't like it. Just think it's funny to rag on CK support when you didn't even try it, and address them with such spite without even reaching out.
Hard for CK to treat you as invalid if you didn't even try to broach the conversation. Just saying. No need to get so salty about it. Constructive feedback straight to the source has its impact.
In the end vendors here do way more for the community than most crowd sourcing platforms, and in the end GBs are very much crowd sourcing. Most vendors can't support a 400 set buy by themselves. And unlike platforms like Kickstarter, vendors do a lot of customer support and try to work things out for their customers.
I hope things improve to a level your satisfied with.
Haha, you are so predictable. Don't worry. I'm not upset nor am I salty.
If you want constructive criticism, you can refer to my prior posts.
I think you confuse "salt" with "annoyance".
Issues like what happened here are easily fixable.
The ic page and gb page mention ral1015 for the alphas. That's not what we are seeing in pictures of what people received. What people got is way way more yellow.
Yeah. Def a fan of GH new policies.Doesn't really affect runners who run r2's or light versions of sets if they never post the ic/gb to geekhack :p
Plum and Necro all over againHow do I keep joining these.
Plum and Necro all over againHow do I keep joining these.
To be fair I still really like how Necro turned out drama aside.
I don't think I will be putting GMK toenails on any board or even opening it sadly and the only upside is it can probably be sold for the same price I paid but god damn this is lame.