How much to adopt an L?
How much to adopt an L?
So is someone going to actually hold donations? Or is this just a place holder until all the legends are covered?
How much to adopt an L?
i can adopt the spacebar.
People, any interests in adopting the naming right to this Cherry Legend font, so from now on this Cherry Legend is referred to as "YOURNAME Cherry Legend font"?
We could auction the naming right it to the highest bidder. You will be famous! You name will be in the keyboard history book (or a wikipedia page)!
I'll take G and H.
Pause/Break, please. INT1Bh FTW!
People, any interests in adopting the naming right to this Cherry Legend font, so from now on this Cherry Legend is referred to as "YOURNAME Cherry Legend font"?
We could auction the naming right it to the highest bidder. You will be famous! You name will be in the keyboard history book (or a wikipedia page)!
A few people said they would adopt if it is $10. I don't think it will be $10 per key. I wouldn't count on it anyway. It is probably going to be more.
Hashbaz, tsangan, or anyone who has done new legends, how much will it be? Could you check with SP about the legend cost? Thanks.
Dude, it's your money. :)
But who holds the money while the SVGs are created?
But who holds the money while the SVGs are created?
Ripster you should adopt "|\"
A few people said they would adopt if it is $10. I don't think it will be $10 per key. I wouldn't count on it anyway. It is probably going to be more.
Hashbaz, tsangan, or anyone who has done new legends, how much will it be? Could you check with SP about the legend cost? Thanks.
i believe tsangan said they quoted him 10 each for 87 legends
A few people said they would adopt if it is $10. I don't think it will be $10 per key. I wouldn't count on it anyway. It is probably going to be more.
Hashbaz, tsangan, or anyone who has done new legends, how much will it be? Could you check with SP about the legend cost? Thanks.
I'd put it in my pipe and smoke it.
Have you guys checked with the Koreans or Sixty yet? That keyboard didn't just magically happen and last time you tried to replicate Cherry you were close...
But no cigar.
(Attachment) 43042[/ATTACH]
Typical cost is $35 per legend, $45 if it's complex (seems likely none of these will be). tsangan said $10 as a volume discount for doing them all at once, but I forget if that was something he got first-hand from Melissa or just read somewhere.
I'd put it in my pipe and smoke it.
...
But no cigar.
It would be great if someone else can collect the money and be the escrow manager.
Some notable keycaps that are in need of an adopted parent:
6, 7
a lot of function keys (think of some of the more important function keys that you use daily)
the complete arrow key cluster! ZOMG!
ENTER!!!
Someone need to adopt the whole numpad! Someone who is a die hard 104 key keyboard. An accountant? A mutual fund manager? Or a bank teller?
?/ Really? Not even the Riddler question mark?
|\ Someone gets this before KL comes in here!
Backspace, that is better than the spacebar I tell you!
I'm doing Backspace and |\ for moogle3.
No one took Enter?! I will adopt this key also :)
you now have the duty of starting a white on red enter doubleshot group buy!
No one took Enter?! I will adopt this key also :)
you now have the duty of starting a white on red enter doubleshot group buy!
Enter is part of moogle3 as well, actually. Still, it doesn't hurt to fund the moogle3 keys as there's no guarantee yet that anything beyond the standard moogle kit will actually get produced. It all depends on how many get ordered.
Me? Organize group buy? Idea is appealing, but I've never run one before..
I'll adopt F1, F2, F3, F6, F8, F9, F11, F12, ;: , "' , ,< , .> , and ?/ .
I have plans for a red enter GB following moogle3. But if you want to preempt, feel free. :)
rknize is now the proud papa of PrintScreen/SysRq.
Seeing Ripster has already posted my comparison pic I'd also be able to provide detailed macro shots of every key for the svg designers if that would help them.
Given we don't get the original font somewhere. I want this to be as close to Cherry as humanly possible.
I have plans for a red enter GB following moogle3. But if you want to preempt, feel free. :)
I'd like to do the "D" key!
So, if KBM wouldn't let us use their legends, I'm assuming we'll be keeping these within the forum as well?
I would assume that the legends would be for group buy on GH. If they ask, I think we would consider it. This adoption is for everyone on here. We don't know what and how Kbdmania did. For all we know it was done by one guy. I think we should work toward expanding our keyboard community across the world, be more inclusive.I agree, I would like the different communities to be friendly with each other and include each other in their projects this will lead to bigger and better things :)
That would be fantastic. I'm currently working with scans. Enter, Backspace, Tab, and Backslash/Pipe would be very helpful for starters.
Kisa is so smart, F5 is perfect
Ill do a UK region specific 2 ;)
I'll take the 7 key then :)
How much to adopt an L?
Sorry jinzo.pk3, I did miss your post. You are in now. net2522, you got tab! Thanks.
7 keys left for tenkeyless:
6, 7
-_
U
O
Page Up, Page Down
and the poor numpad! adopt the numpad keys! Or they will be euthanized! Please help them! Or you won't have your numpad add on kits later.
And back to these Korean Fonts. This looks like their standard font done right.
(Attachment) 43097[/ATTACH]
I doubt they paid $5K upfront to do this. I mean it could use SOME improvement (why they enlarge the ' " font beats me) but certainly better than the work they give to Geekhack.
For once.......I'll be tuning in.
BTW this is their standard font.
I'll explain in my font thread in my subforum in a sec....
Wow! 2 more pages over night! I will update the list when I get a chance.
I agree with Ripster. We need to be persistent in getting it done right if there is any mistake in creating the legend. From Hashbaz's recently experience and the good looking font that the Korean community did, looks like the SP dog can learn new tricks.
The beating will not stop until the font legend quality improves!
As for the committee, I think Hazeluff, Hashbaz, tsangan are some of the founding members as they have been involved in recent group buys with new legend creations. Who else would like to join the effort?
In my view the problem is not that SP gives us poor work, it is that iterating is expensive. SP just puts our SVGs into their routing machine and produces a mold. Are you guys saying we should demand to pay a single setup fee and expect multiple prototypes?
Maybe I should pull out from adopting the legends and have the set named after me instead. 5 keys vs. set's name...hmmm.
I'll adopt 'U'!
No, not exactly.
Communication is key. Melissa must be informed of the passion associated with this project and the expectations of the finished product.
A picture is worth a thousands words so charts can be created showing proper spacing, position, size, kerning of each and every key.
The Nighted Key Cap Set must be of legendary perfection. ;)
Spacing, position, size, and kerning are all dependent upon us, the SVG creators. Since we're not using one of their built-in fonts, everything can and should be meticulously specified in the SVG. I believe the only manual process that happens with custom legends is how to position the SVG image over the legendable area of the key top. And if the SVG has the appropriate canvas size, which it should, it will correspond 1:1 with the legendable area of the key.
So barring a foul-up by SP in aligning the SVG, everything falls on our shoulders. And in my experience Melissa is very good about correcting foul-ups. We should establish standards for the SVG creators and do internal reviews amongst the SVG committee members.
I've been doing this for my SVGs, but she has been telling me that they are too large, yet my software is saying otherwise. == I'll look into this and we can get a template going. If the committee PM me their emails. I have a template,which I've been using for the SVGs I made for the dolce replica IC and would like to send that off to others if they want it.
Ah nuts, Melissa is out until the 14th.
Hmm that's annoying. Are you using Inkscape or Illustrator (or something else) ?
Numpad 5
Hmm that's annoying. Are you using Inkscape or Illustrator (or something else) ?
All the good stuff is already gone ... as usual ;>
oops no 'U', so 'O' then... :)
Since I am adopted and my real name has a hyphen it it, I guess it is only right that I adopt the "-_" key.
Sign me up.
HEY
I will give up the hyphen for the adopted dude. Give me pg up and down please :)
I would be willing to at least adopt Å, Ä and Ö.
Would be nice if more nordic people would step up and help.
Not sure if there is a reason though. Since I have a hard time seeing them included in any GB.
List updated.
reaper and fstop, I missed your PM and messed up the list. fstop wanted "X" ahead of reaper. reaper, I need to give "X" to fstop, if fstop is still up for it.
HEY
I will give up the hyphen for the adopted dude. Give me pg up and down please :)
It really doesn't matter much to me...just thought it was a cool story :). But thanks for that.I actually don't care about your name, I just decided pg up and down would make me seem way cooler. Sorry for the confusion.
Wow! 2 more pages over night! I will update the list when I get a chance.
I agree with Ripster. We need to be persistent in getting it done right if there is any mistake in creating the legend. From Hashbaz's recently experience and the good looking font that the Korean community did, looks like the SP dog can learn new tricks.
The beating will not stop until the font legend quality improves!
As for the committee, I think Hazeluff, Hashbaz, tsangan are some of the founding members as they have been involved in recent group buys with new legend creations. Who else would like to join the effort?
We have only one key left in the tenkeyless set for adoption. ^6 is a good number. Someone pick it up!
I think we are ready to collect money, if we know how much to collect. As for who should be the escrow, besides iMav, I think anyone who have had managed successful group buys would be trustworthy enough to collect money. Someone who have done custom legends in group buys could drive getting the legends made. There are more capable people here to do these than me. I am happy to continue to organize the adoption drive and the naming right auction.
I bid $105 for the naming of the kit on the basis that I can name it, "**** you, Paypal".
payable in April.
Will totally be worth your money eh.
I have funded less worthy causes.
Ex's for example? lol
I got to fornicate productively with my ex's... Paypal simply ****ed me.
RcollinTaylor, thanks for the bid. But seriously I would stick to your forum screen name so we don't have to swear every time we need to mention this set. Keep it clean. :-)
I think you should bid and win this, Ripster. How could the number one keyboard expert on the planet not having a keycap font legend name after him? Imagine all the people who don't like you have to say your name every time the refer to this font? :-)What will this mean for Ripster? Story at 11.
Six rhymes with sex! Come get some six!
Can someone remind me again why we aren't putting the $5K into making some nice thick Cherry Corp R1-R4 Molds?
Can someone remind me again why we aren't putting the $5K into making some nice thick Cherry Corp R1-R4 Molds?
Shouldn't have to be 104 new molds. R1-R4 plus modifiers.
Shouldn't have to be 104 new molds. R1-R4 plus modifiers.
I wasn't referring to the molds for the thicker keys. I was referring to the molds for all a whole new font. I'm just not sure how keycaps are made. Is it a base mold (R1-R4/modifiers) and then a character mold added...or is each character/key combo its own mold? (or something completely different)
I'll take Numpad 1, Numpad 2, and Numpad 3 please.
+1 for getting as close to OEM Cherry font/thickness as possible.
I'll "adopt" the
Numpad 0
Numpad Enter
If that's okay.
This is all contingent on my liking what we eventually settle on in terms of the font, though.
OR get THICK doubleshot keys.
Hum, how would that work? We are going for a font legend that is as close to Cherry as possible, like what we have done with moogle kits. Is that not what you like?Yep, that'd be great. I'm very easy to please, but if we end up abandoning the cherry font replica in lieu of comic sans or "space toaster" (My favourite font when I was 7)... Well, I can't sign my name to such an atrocity.
Yep, that'd be great. I'm very easy to please, but if we end up abandoning the cherry font replica in lieu of comic sans or "space toaster" (My favourite font when I was 7)... Well, I can't sign my name to such an atrocity.
I have no problem with paying for SP to have a better font. I'm not a rabid cherry fanboy. Cherry's font is great, but I'd also be okay with one of many other, more modern fonts. But if we decide to go with a not-cherry font that's really ugly, I'm not going for it.
Sorry, I reread my post, and I realized I sounded like one of those really picky people. I'm not.
---
I replaced the top case in someone's Macbook pro TWICE (under warranty) last week because their up arrow key looked a little crooked. It worked just fine, but was a little visually off. That guy measured it when he picked it up. I'm not like that at all.
Yes please!
I mean it'll look like 80% cherry, since we can't do multiple widths. But will be trying to get it as close as possible.I don't hate it as much as some people, but I also wouldn't want that on my keyboard.
Also who doesn't love comic sans?
I don't hate it as much as some people, but I also wouldn't want that on my keyboard.
Yep, that'd be great. I'm very easy to please, but if we end up abandoning the cherry font replica in lieu of comic sans or "space toaster" (My favourite font when I was 7)... Well, I can't sign my name to such an atrocity.
I have no problem with paying for SP to have a better font. I'm not a rabid cherry fanboy. Cherry's font is great, but I'd also be okay with one of many other, more modern fonts. But if we decide to go with a not-cherry font that's really ugly, I'm not going for it.
Sorry, I reread my post, and I realized I sounded like one of those really picky people. I'm not.
---
I replaced the top case in someone's Macbook pro TWICE (under warranty) last week because their up arrow key looked a little crooked. It worked just fine, but was a little visually off. That guy measured it when he picked it up. I'm not like that at all.
Sixty is saying he was quoted $100K type numbers for thick keys. I remain skeptical. Maybe Melissa is trying to blow us off?
As long as you donate what you pledge when we collect the adoption fee, that would be fine. I don't think we will have someone to pay up front for everyone first and let people back out if they decide they don't like it. We are in this together.
I found my issue with SP where my legends were too big. Inkscape = 90dpi, Illustrator = 72dpi. I'll starting legends after end of my semester (in 2 weeks). So I've got a template which should spit out SVGs the right size for SP.
Anyone who'd like to help make legends. I'd hate to be a one man army. 104 legends will take some time.
The kerning is fine. The letters are bold and clear versus the wimpy lower case letters you can see in my GLWIC (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?24707-Why-Is-The-Ripster-So-Darn-Pissed-At-Signature-Plastic-Key-Group-Buys&p=465725&viewfull=1#post465725) pics. It doesn't have that weird camelcase backspace that I am staring at right now on my Group Key Buy 3 keys.first of all i think we should all thank ripster for giving us an elaborated post without being a **** about it (seriously). second of all, i have to agree; i don't see what's wrong with the SP font _as long as_ the keys are properly proofed and a set is not run until the legends are exactly right. my feeling was that this could be done while getting our custom legends made, and that is what would make the custom legends worth the money.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=38124&d=1317067868)
vs
(Attachment) 43399[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 43400[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 43401[/ATTACH]
All I'm saying is the default Signature Plastic Font WHEN DONE RIGHT is not that bad, and I'm not sure what's so magical about the Retro Pantograph Monoline Cherry Corp font. If I was going completely custom I'd pick a more modern font OR get THICK doubleshot keys.
I think you programmers call it "**** goes in, **** goes out". We medical professionals call that copremesis.
the original goal is to get a font that is as close to Cherry's original font as possible. I think we are still working toward that. As for kerning, we don't need kerning for single letters and digits, right? hashbaz and hazeluff have already done shifts and capslock as well as Esc, Control and Alt. They look pretty good and kern okay to me, but I am not a font fanatic yet. I would imagine the 2-glyph keys like the function keys should be very simple to kern. I think the kerning now is done through hazeluff's drawing so it is not as easy for SP to screw them up. Then it there are only to 9-pack keys and the large Enter key on the numpad. It shouldn't be much more expensive even if we have to redo a few of those long keys.
Hashbaz, when you had to redo a key or two last time due to SP's incompetence, did you have to pay extra for the remake?
There you go again confusing FIFO and LIFO. "**** goes in, **** comes out" is just your garden variety coprophagia.
Work on it will commence soon.
I luff you!
What do programmers call it then? 2 girl 1 cup?
No really, I'm curious.
GIGO I thought was it?
And is this Group Buy going to be FINO like the Group Key Buy Four?
Were the pictures helpful?
"Garbage in, garbage out" is the common phrase in programming.
I am working on the moogle3 legends now (Enter, Backspace, Tab, Backslash/Pipe, and Caps Lock (stepped and flat)). Progress has been slow so far, but I think I've learned enough about SVGs and Inkscape now that it should be smooth sailing from here on out. I'll be doing a prototype Enter key to proof my work as soon as that SVG is ready.
Esc, Ctrl, Alt, and the Shifts are already done from my RGBY buy, and I think SP's regular Menu and Win keys look fine as-is. When I'm done with moogle3 I'll continue to assist hazel with the rest of the legends. He and I have synced up and he edumacated me on the Inkscape/Illustrator DPI issue, so any kerning/alignment issues are on us.
If no one else can do the money collection my account is available. I accepted payments for the RGBY buy with no grumblings from Paypal so I think that shouldn't be an issue. Melissa also knows me well by now from my many pesterings.
Hashbaz, when you had to redo a key or two last time due to SP's incompetence, did you have to pay extra for the remake?
I think you would be a great person to orchestrate this thing!
Yeah, Hashbaz is good. I trust him.
there are some others that would be suitable candidates, too.
While I'm okay with the SP font, I do think the cherry font is a little better. Also, I'm glad to contribute to getting a new/bettor font made, as I'm sure it'll be used for a while by us, here. I wonder if SP can get this GH font added to their repertoire, maybe we'll start seeing it on access-is boards soon :p
Hashbaz for president!I called that weeks ago! The guys a dude.
I doubt that, unless the copyright owners for each SVG signed over their rights to SP for free (which would be insane, mind you) you'd run into IP ownership issues if SP tried to use someone else's work without permission.Why don't we make our cherry lookalike font open source/public domain? I mean, the more keyboards that use it, the better.
I called that weeks ago! The guys a dude.
Why don't we make our cherry lookalike font open source/public domain? I mean, the more keyboards that use it, the better.
I think we should keep it within the GH community. But if people like OTD or kbdmania folks ask to use it, I think we would let them use it. Just not totally open source so any joe blow could use it to make keys and try to profit from our effort.
I got an idea - lets ask them to let us use their Signature Plastic fonts first!
Oh wait. I said that already.
I disagree.
I'd like to be open to anyone on geekhack, but not anyone. = / I don't like the fact Geekhackers fork out money so the others can use it. = / I don't see the benefits of making it public.
Even tho I won't be the guy working on the SVGs, I am still injecting money into this and I would vote for public domain.
I never believed in copyrights and such things.
Benifits: People get to save 5K when they want a similar font.
I understand that working on a font that will be private and exclusive is rewarding in another way tho.
I'm with tsangan with litster with demik with hazeluff. Who's with me?
I think ReAzem has the same intention. We just don't want anyone one else to profit from what we do here. I don't think we will say no to anyone within the worldwide keyboard community who wants to make keycaps for the community. But if someone wants to use it to make keycaps to sell for profit, we would not allow that.
Let me throw my hat in the ring for some sort of CC license that prohibits commercial reuse.
That way the license holder, in this case the geek hack community, can still issue keycap sets for sale, and other people could make their own -- but they can't commission a run of the caps to sell for personal profit. Doubleshot groupbuys seem to be the only major group buys when it comes to full key sets, so there's still a level of exclusivity to lure more folks into buying sets. Those who don't want, can't afford or don't care about doubleshots could do custom sets on WASD.
i feel like that's a decent compromise for the 'exclusive' group and the group that feels uncomfortable with the idea of copyright or intellectual property.
Let me throw my hat in the ring for some sort of CC license that prohibits commercial reuse.
That way the license holder, in this case the geek hack community, can still issue keycap sets for sale, and other people could make their own -- but they can't commission a run of the caps to sell for personal profit.
I think you would be a great person to orchestrate this thing!
I'd raise my voice for hashbaz too if he has the time. Great person to deal with
Yeah, Hashbaz is good. I trust him.
Hashbaz for president!
I also vote for hashbaz.
I called that weeks ago! The guys a dude.
And I always thought hashbaz was a hot lady. That goes my dreams...
Lowercase dude is fine. But I'm The Dude. Or Duderino. Or his Dudeness.
I don't see a point in drawing a line between communities, we should try to unite them :thumb:
I think we should keep it within the GH community. But if people like OTD or kbdmania folks ask to use it, I think we would let them use it. Just not totally open source so any joe blow could use it to make keys and try to profit from our effort.
I'm with tsangan with litster with demik with hazeluff. Who's with me?
The font actually is only really applied to doubleshots (tho not truely exclusive to doubleshots). Since it's line-font. We're making this font due to the limitations of doubleshots with SP. I don't think we're trying to lure people in with the font (tho I guess it does in small amounts). I think it's more of just satisfying what we want personally/as a community.Yeah, so people wanting to make their own might not be a big deal at all. I personally think it would be pretty cool if we made them available.
I am with hazeluff. Who's with me?
We should offer one of our noobs in marriage to the Koreans, with an ample dowry of SVGs.
Seriously though, I agree with what many of you are saying. We should be generous with the other keyboard communities if they're interested in these legends. But I'm not comfortable making them totally free and open after all the work and money we are putting in here. I'm not sure anyone outside the keyboard nerdosphere will ever care, but I'd like these to be "the geekhack legends", and to control who can use them.
You guys sure know how to make a hot lady feel loved. I should follow the Dude's example and start a vanity thread after this. :grouphug:
If we lend other keyboard communities to use them. We will expect them to return the favor. But it's good to join up the communities somehow. And someone needs to be the man and reach out (well more like being accepting of them).
Can someone remind me again why we aren't putting the $5K into making some nice thick Cherry Corp R1-R4 Molds?
I mean having the Signature Plastic DCS anorexic thin caps masquerade as nice thick Cherries is like Taeyon pretend to be Adele.
(Attachment) 43314[/ATTACH]
^^^^THIS^^^^. Seriously. It's only a few more molds. We should match the Filco profile in THICK keycaps, with our new legends.
BTW, can our new legends be moved around for each buy? i.e. centered for Round3 style? Top left for Modern? Lower right for freaky zombie?
^^^^THIS^^^^. Seriously. It's only a few more molds. We should match the Filco profile in THICK keycaps, with our new legends.
BTW, can our new legends be moved around for each buy? i.e. centered for Round3 style? Top left for Modern? Lower right for freaky zombie?
How much thick molds cost?
We just need 4, right? One for each row.
How do they print legends? They make molds?
Wait what, hot lady? Who?
Just making R1 R2, R3 and R4 would be a great start.
Okay so what they do is put a USB thumbdrive in the machine, load the SVG, and charge us 10 bucks?
Just making R1 R2, R3 and R4 would be a great start.
Okay so what they do is put a USB thumbdrive in the machine, load the SVG, and charge us 10 bucks?
If the legends are numerous enough, you can get it at $10 per key. Volume discount
This is from the Dolce replica thread.
Just for heads up new molds would cost more than 100k. And before you go that is impossible. Molds have to be made with better precision than other things because mold precision translates directly to injected plastic. And you need to calculate few things for the molds because ticker plastic has different cooling curve than thin one. You could get strange contour on top of keys and stuff.
I think the 100k value seems a bit too high. But I get the point...expensive and out of our reach.
Also Leopold will come out with thick PBT keys.
I predicted that way back in December of last year.
huh. The guys from QWERkeys made some thick looking keycaps.
Agree with litster. I think we are all getting at the same idea. We want people to have to ask us for permission. This will be the default state of affairs given SP's policies. I don't think we need to or should release the SVGs at all.
The problem is who will that person be? And what happens if he leaves the community or dies or whatever.wouldn't be the first time something like that happensit will be the person of record as far as SP's concerned, which at the moment looks like hashbaz. i think the point of electing him is that we trust him to pass the torch and write to SP to tell them to give permission to [next elected leader] if he needs to leave the community or die or something.
The problem is who will that person be? And what happens if he leaves the community or dies or whatever.wouldn't be the first time something like that happens
The problem is who will that person be? And what happens if he leaves the community or dies or whatever.wouldn't be the first time something like that happens
no one is claiming to have better information than you, zoidbergslo. my point is only that whether or not this is true is orthogonal to the effort to get better SP DS legends, so i think the radio edit here is that if you don't care about getting a nice new set of SP DS legends, please post elsewhere.
There must be some misunderstanding. I know why this topic was open and its not that I don't care for DS. That reply was for hashbaz but I forgot to quote.no no no no, i'm not saying don't post here. on the contrary please keep posting. that statement was meant for others who keep trying to challenge your assertion that tooling costs are high and insisting that we try to pay tooling costs instead of making new legends.
lol
anyway, my vote is that the ruling cabal is, for now, hashbaz (for handling cash), hazeluff and tsangan (for designing)
As always, I am the management overhead.
Now, who is going to bid more than $105 for the legend naming right? I know it is not going to be ripster, because he is starting a new profile adoption for thicker keycaps. I want to adopt the row 1 profile. Most keycaps are row 1 caps! R1 has the most offsprings.
I want to adopt the row 1 profile. Most keycaps are row 1 caps! R1 has the most offsprings.
Mintberryminuscrunch-set sounds really good
I want to adopt the row 1 profile. Most keycaps are row 1 caps! R1 has the most offsprings. [\QUOTE]
Didn't we establish that new profiles would cost too much?
Since we estimated 100k and there is 10 profiles, you put 10k into this?
Quote from: ReAzem;543110
I was trolling him! Oh god...
And know your slashes. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Using my phone >.>
Using my phone >.>
I'm not ok with random guy going to SP and going:
"I know these keys were made from you, what font is this" and then because we open source it, SP makes it for them. Especially if its for profits.
This is from the Dolce replica thread.
Excellent. I will confirm this with Melissa when she gets back in on Wednesday, and let her know what we're planning to do.
Feeling ... confused, lightsout?
The problem is who will that person be? And what happens if he leaves the community or dies or whatever.wouldn't be the first time something like that happens
Anyone who participated in funding the font maybe? Make a list of e-mails of people willing to handle this responsibility, and hand it to SP.
Btw.who cares if they pop up on taobao or any other Chinese site. Only sp will have the svgs we did.
In the end we are copying cherry fonts not creating something new. It would be close minded to act like the companies we hate for removing YouTube vids etc. just because we paid for something and no one else should get it...
anyway, my vote is that the ruling cabal is, for now, hashbaz (for handling cash), hazeluff and tsangan (for designing) AND LITSTER FOR BEING PING
Can you confirm the 10$? I might be interested in funding more then. ;P
Hashbaz. I think it'd be nice if we could upload our progress onto a thread in the mods section. Also I think we could use something like dropbox to keep our files in sync?
Sounds good. We can use my dropbox if you'd like. Send me your dropbox account name and I'll set up a shared folder.
It's the same as my gmail. = )
Share'd
The Typeface (actually this post title is wrong - I would call it a Font) on the New Yorker is:
The Typeface (actually this post title is wrong - I would call it a Font) on the New Yorker is:
I wanna name the legend "The New Yorker" or "NY Giants FTMFW"
Oh hell no not the Giants!!
Oh hell no not the Giants!!
I put a bid in. I'd it hold it will be the ny giants
Sent from a phone...
I put a bid in. I'd it hold it will be the ny giants
Sent from a phone...
I wanna name the legend "The New Yorker" or "NY Giants FTMFW"
Some Giants fans are worse than Jets fans.
3 > 2
(Attachment) 43757[/ATTACH]
I hope not lol. I thought the naming was supposed to just be a persons user name. Might as well make it World Champion NY Giants while your at it.
Please don't let the font be called NY Giants...
I put a bid in. I'd it hold it will be the ny giantsI will be damned if we put such a stupid name on this font. The giants can go to football hell.
Sent from a phone...
I will be damned if we put such a stupid name on this font. The giants can go to football hell.
Actually, anything involving new York is banned.
Who wants to gather up money to get the naming rights? We'll call the pool "NYC sucks".
The Typeface (actually this post title is wrong - I would call it a Font) on the New Yorker is:
LMAO..I will make it my duty to win the rights to name it after NYC ^_^
Right, I will change it. Something like "adopt a keycap legend for our Cherry replica font"?
Current naming right high bid is $125 from boost!
Just a reminder, keep the naming right to your screen name. Definitely no swear words in the name. :-)
I'm pretty sure the Giants have been around longer than the last 5 years. They have 4 rings.
My Signature Plastic Group Key Buy One Camo Fonts are kinda giant.
(Attachment) 43768[/ATTACH]
Hmm.. doesn't look THAT bad from this angle.
This whole naming thing has been rubbing me the wrong way. We are a *community*. Our first big Industrial Project ought to reflect that. Why don't we just all pitch in $5, and call it the "2012 GeekHack Cherry Legend Keycaps"? Hell, how much would we have to all pitch in to get NEW !@#$ing MOLDS made, with thick sidewalls, and sprue marks on the BACKSIDE?? (and maybe even a non DCS profile, unless that has become the standard by now)The new molds is in the 10-100k range. Not viable even if we chip in.
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we dont even know how much it's going to be.
if it's too much, some people might pull out that have numerous legends they adopted.
Good call. Wouldn't be surprised to see an "administration fee" or something along those lines either. I do recall a fair amount of people mentioning they would adopt a few if it's 10 bucks, so yeah, if it were 15-20 I'm sure we'd have much more keys up for adoption.
edit: i accidentally a word
Hell, how much would we have to all pitch in to get NEW !@#$ing MOLDS made, with thick sidewalls, and sprue marks on the BACKSIDE?? (and maybe even a non DCS profile, unless that has become the standard by now)
We will also probably want to iterate on some of the legends.
Something I just realized: we will have no way of knowing how good the legends turn out without doing a simultaneous key set group buy (Dolch, I suppose). Getting prototype keys made is extra above and beyond just the cost of cutting the SVGs.
If there is money left from the adoption, we can roll that into making prototype. If there is not enough left over, then the Dolch replica group buy will need to absorb some of that.
BUT... if we have left over to cover all of that, how about we use the money to make new molds for thicker keys? How about that? Huh? Huh?
I got an idea!
Let's use the extra money to get Melissa a plaque!
Geekhackers,
Melissa from SP does a lot for our community. It wouldn't take very many of us chipping in to get her a really nice thank-you gift.
Speaking of people backing out, the last high bidder just backed out. it is back to $105. No more NY Giants. What was that $105 bidder again? Please don't make me go back 20 pages to find it on this slow ass server!
Because:
Oh, plaque, not plague. That would be mean.Show Image(http://files-cdn.formspring.me/profile/20110331/n4d944a8002cda_large.jpg)
Oh, plaque, not plague. That would be mean.Show Image(http://files-cdn.formspring.me/profile/20110331/n4d944a8002cda_large.jpg)
remaining orphans:
Numpad 4
Numpad 6
Numpad 8
Numpad 9
Numpad -
Numpad /
Numpad Enter
Let me know if I missed your adoption applications.
and mmmty just adopted numpad 0.
I'll "adopt" the
Numpad 0
Numpad Enter
If that's okay.
I have to call bull**** on this. For every shot there has to be a mold. So why would it cost any more to make the mold for the cap vs. a mold for the legend??? A CNC mill could make both in two sheets of metal each. Something is fishy with this. :-/
I have to call bull**** on this. For every shot there has to be a mold. So why would it cost any more to make the mold for the cap vs. a mold for the legend??? A CNC mill could make both in two sheets of metal each. Something is fishy with this. :-/
----
First the CMstorm pictures, and now this. Don't forget about me, litster!
I'll "adopt" the
Numpad 0
Numpad Enter
If that's okay.
This is all contingent on my liking what we eventually settle on in terms of the font, though.
Hum, how would that work? We are going for a font legend that is as close to Cherry as possible, like what we have done with moogle kits. Is that not what you like?
Yep, that'd be great. I'm very easy to please, but if we end up abandoning the cherry font replica in lieu of comic sans or "space toaster" (My favourite font when I was 7)... Well, I can't sign my name to such an atrocity.
I have no problem with paying for SP to have a better font. I'm not a rabid cherry fanboy. Cherry's font is great, but I'd also be okay with one of many other, more modern fonts. But if we decide to go with a not-cherry font that's really ugly, I'm not going for it.
Sorry, I reread my post, and I realized I sounded like one of those really picky people. I'm not.
---
I replaced the top case in someone's Macbook pro TWICE (under warranty) last week because their up arrow key looked a little crooked. It worked just fine, but was a little visually off. That guy measured it when he picked it up. I'm not like that at all.
We've been talking about this for pages now. It is ridiculously expensive and difficult to make entirely new molds. It won't happen.
Who told you that? The rep. for the company that effectively has the monopoly on doubleshot keycaps for the world?
Does it really behoove her to do anything for us that isn't insanely profitable for Signature Plastics?
For every shot there has to be a mold. So why would it cost any more to make the mold for the cap vs. a mold for the legend??? A CNC mill could make both in two sheets of metal each. Something is fishy with this. :-/ Very fishy.
Just a miniscule web searching turns up an entire double shot injection molding machine for $20-$50k shipped FOB from China:
http://cn-only.en.alibaba.com/product/51519280-50336657/PS120_Double_Shot_Injection_Molding_Machine.html
Molds cost $1500-$20k+ made by:
http://epsilonindustries.com/services/injection-mold-fabrication/
But we are talking about keycaps. Simple (relatively). So I would assume that they'd be on the lower end of that range (maybe a bad assumption?)
Anyway, just taking hearsay from the mouth of the horse that needs you to feed it isn't really the wisest choice... and the numbers I found in <5min of searching indicate that we should be able to go into keycap manufacturing business for a total equipment investment of $22k-$70k. :-D (Of course, there are other costs involved, but my point here is: there is a company listed above that will make custom molds with $20k+ as the top of their range.
BTW, are we going to use Gill Sans as our font?
Because Gill died in 1940, in most parts of the world the typeface became part of the public domain in 2010. In countries where typefaces are not copyrightable (like in the USA) this is not important but in other parts of the world this makes it possible to freely use the original design for any purposes, including creating digitised versions of the typeface. New digitized versions based on the original design may or may not have copyright protection (depending on the given country's view on creative works, and whether they consider visually exact lookalikes "creative" or not), often possessing their own copyright terms.
The name "Gill Sans" is trademarked (No. 1340167 in the USA and No. 0950970 internationally, filed in 1983 by Monotype Corporation) and may not be used to describe the font created. -- wikipedia
But "Geekhack Vintage Cherry" is not trademarked! yet. ;-)
We got the message. makawa's LOD was sufficient. You don't need a piledriver, even though you'd like a purple one. ;-P
I didn't think discussing the font was off limits too! That's absolutely apropos. What's wrong with Gill Sans? I like VAG too, but it's probably in copyright in some countries we'd want to sell to... on the other hand, since SP is in USA, I guess we don't need to worry about copyrights!
How did "don't" turn into "dkbt"??? Is the BBS broken, or your keyboard?
D'oh! I wasn't sure if you are fully committed from what you said. Are you?
I woke up this morning and realized that if Germans Adopted ME then Germany would be my Fatherland.
[video=youtube;s2IaFaJrmno]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2IaFaJrmno[/video]
Ich Bin Uber Alles Nummer Einz!
Ja wohl.
Meine Schlange is sehr lang. Und Ripster ist ein Kartoffeln.
Bitte Schon.
i would be very happy if someone adopted a ⌘ modifier keyI might be interested in that as well.. depending on the cost. Not sure if 1.25 is going to cost more than the 2 keys I already claimed.
I woke up this morning and realized that if Germans Adopted ME then Germany would be my Fatherland.
[video=youtube;s2IaFaJrmno]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2IaFaJrmno[/video]
Ich Bin Uber Alles Nummer Einz!
Who wants to hear about the history of Vag rounded in my subforum? ItlnStln does.
However since it is the Apple Keyboard Font I have a feeling it won't fly with the Geekhack Windows/Linux crowd.
Who wants to hear about the history of Vag rounded in my subforum? ItlnStln does.
However since it is the Apple Keyboard Font I have a feeling it won't fly with the Geekhack Windows/Linux crowd.
Futura is the RADICAL Anti-Nazi font.
(Attachment) 44101[/ATTACH]
But too difficult to reproduce using Signature Plastics cutters.
And some would accuse me of being a Filco Fanboi.
(Attachment) 44100[/ATTACH]
At some point too it IS copyrighted and licensed.
Melissa might ask.
Why don't you open your own thread about keycap legends?
This one is for CHERRY keycap legend.
1) Do we just want to copy Cherry's old font, so that we can put it on keys that do not match the Cherry profile, so we can sort of make Frankenstein keyboards out of old Cherry keys and new SP keys?
2) Do we want to INNOVATE, and create the best damn looking keycaps the world has ever seen, and maybe some day work toward putting our GCK2012 font on some nice thick PBT keycaps?
PS: let me preempt the PBT double-shot naysayers. As far as I can tell there is no REAL reason that a plastics manufacturer cannot do double-shot PBT. Just because they do not currently do it, or one of them refuses to do it , does not mean it cannot be done, and done well. Hell, while we're at it, we should look into other plastics too. ABS and PBT and POM are not, by far, the only plastics in the game. In fact, new plastics are being developed every year! Someone with more intimate petrochemical knowledge than I should be researching and reporting on this for us.
1) Do we just want to copy Cherry's old font, so that we can put it on keys that do not match the Cherry profile, so we can sort of make Frankenstein keyboards out of old Cherry keys and new SP keys?
Is that how the Big Three here feel? If so, gg is right, and I will cease with the "off topic" commentary. If, however, the goal is to create the best keycap font possible, I'll stick around.
frankenboards
So copying cherry font is not innovation but copying another font is? You got some explaining to do captain.
Signature Plastics’ font selection is limited. It has been brought up through many group buy discussions that it would be good if we could make custom keycaps with a font that is very close to the original Cherry font. We know this is possible through creating moogle kit keycaps and the result has been fantastic.
What’s been stopping us from making a full set of keycaps with a font similar to the original Cherry font is the cost of creating the legends. It is anywhere between $10 to $40 per keycap. It is a lot of money to get a full set of legends made. Luckily, a few new legends have already been made through the recent moogle kit group buy (Shift, Control, Alt, Windows, menu, Esc).
To get the rest of the legends made, a few regular keycap group buyers and forum members are teaming up to start an “Adopt a Cherry keycap” project. People can now adopt a keycap by pledging to pay for the legend fee for the adopted keycap. The resulting legends from this effort will be available to any future group buy. We will maintain a list of “parents” and their adopted keycaps so the community can recognize the “parents’” contribution. If you choose to support this effort anonymously, we will respect that. You can adopt one keycap, you can adopt many keycaps.
If you are interested in joining this effort, please post here to let the thread know which keycap you are adopting.
So copying cherry font is not innovation but copying another font is? You got some explaining to do captain.
So I will leave this thread. GLWIC (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?24707-Why-Is-The-Ripster-So-Darn-Pissed-At-Signature-Plastic-Key-Group-Buys&p=465725&viewfull=1#post465725).
Best color choicesShow Image(http://img.tapatalk.com/189bf2e1-4b1e-6fcd.jpg)
Strange. Geekhack refused to let me host the jpg here.
What is you point of best color choices in a font/legend thread?
It ain't over until the fat lady sings.
This is not a slam on Melissa.
Only 6 keys left:
Numpad 4
Numpad 6
Numpad 8
Numpad 9
Numpad -
Numpad /
And, anyone else want to bid for the naming right? Do I hear $110? $115? $110? $120?
everyone else is too polite to tell you to **** off ripster, so imma do it. **** off ripster.
i'll adopt st john's arms.
i like ripster but he needs to stop trolling this thread
also i don't know the story of this thing of yours rct so not sure if serious etc.
It may not be of everyone's opinion, but I feel ripster has earned enough respect around here that he can afford to spend some of those points to troll around. Hey, he made me change the thread title. That's a positive change. Meanwhile there are other people who has earned no points but... Those, I don't care for.
It may not be of everyone's opinion, but I feel ripster has earned enough respect around here that he can afford to spend some of those points to troll around. Hey, he made me change the thread title. That's a positive change. Meanwhile there are other people who has earned no points but... Those, I don't care for.
I like this guy.i like to think that ripster and i have a positive co-trolling relationship.
The splat key is an excellent choice.
What's the Cherry Font for that?
It may not be of everyone's opinion, but I feel ripster has earned enough respect around here that he can afford to spend some of those points to troll around. Hey, he made me change the thread title. That's a positive change. Meanwhile there are other people who has earned no points but... Those, I don't care for.
I'm fairly new. And from what I get, is that Ripster has made a ton of wikis and contributions to deserve some kind of respect. At the same time he acts like a **** and trolls around every thread on the forum. For those who rage really hard, my tip is to roll with the punches and accept him. Its more fun that way. The only reason why you're mad is because you're letting him troll you.
Hashbaz. Have you contacted Melissa about the legending fee yet?
To get new molds made for a thicker keycap would be around $3500 per keycap shape - there are 14 total shapes on the standard 104 keyboard (including the spacebar), which comes out to around $49,000. This price would be for blanks or 2-shot, however we would be using our 1st shot components for the 2-shot keycaps.
Please note that set pricing will change - will be higher - as our tooling is larger and has the capacity to run more keycaps at a time than what I have quoted in the past.
We don't make the tooling in house - we source with a local tool maker, so I really wouldn't be able to explain why it costs so much.
Ok some bad news guys. Melissa says there is not a volume discount for new legend fees, and there never has been in the past. Do we have a definite source for the $10 per legend quote?
And for the record, here is what she said about new molds:
The regular fee. My RGBY legends were $35 each.
litster. Since its $35 each. Id like to keep =+ and 6^ and open up all my others for adoption.
in that case I'll grab '1' and drop the cmd key.
I don't have a list, but I'm familiar with the sizes that work for the modifier keys.
There is 0.015", 0.018", 0.020", and 0.025". Not sure if there's a width between 20 and 25, or what they have above 25.
I'll ask for a list.
Cheers. Also someone offered to take some photos/measurements of legends. (That was like a week ago).
That was agor, and I think it's just photos. I've been measuring by photocopying keys next to a ruler and blowing the image up.
Zirb offered help as well = ). Well my old legends I made, were based on ratios, and I think that turned out alright. Tho nice measurements wouldn't have hurt.
Nice. I don't think it's possible to ensure that the legends have the proper scale on SP keys using only ratios though, unless I'm missing something... ?
You see on my template how I have the keytop around the legendable area? That is to scale. So in my previous attempt at the font I scaled the picture's keytop to my keytop and drew my legend over the image's for the first draft. I mean everything we send will be in absolute lengths tho.
Not sure what you were asking tho..>.>
I mean that the ratios of the dimensions of Cherry's key top to those of the legend will be slightly different than SP's key top to the same legend.
Probably the size difference between the two key tops is small enough that this won't matter. My approach was to hold the size of the legend constant (by measuring it), and scaling my overlay image to that measurement rather than aligning key tops.
It shouldn't make too much difference.
Mine was constant, but my first iteration involved just taking the ratio. We need to decide on a stroke width tho for the different legends.
Make sure it's not this:
(Attachment) 44434[/ATTACH]
And tell Melissa next time to pick 20th Century next time. Should work fine as a monoline font and it looks like what HP uses.
(Attachment) 44435[/ATTACH]
How do you know it is constant without measuring?
Assumptions based on what I had to work off of?
Anyway, we need it measured now and then create the font off that width.
Is there any idea of a time frame for Zrib's measurements? It would be great to be able to adjust my enter SVG accordingly before I get the prototype made.
All I know is I got that in some Group Buy and it doesn't match the Cherry Corps.
Litster, can I drop "numpad 0" and pick up "2" that Hazeluff opened?
I dread saying this: can I drop F2, F3, F11, and F12?
I dread saying this: can I drop F2, F3, F11, and F12?
did we get a price on the legend fees?
There's no volume discount, sadly, so the normal fees apply: $25-$45, depending on complexity. The legend fees for my RGBY kit were all $35.
List updated. Zirb, you have F2 now.
[...]
Shouldn't there be legends for keys like F13-F24? I have never seen them in black... I'm going to have to use 12 beige/grey keys on my next black board... I would pick up F24 if F13-F23 are picked up by other people.
Shouldn't there be legends for keys like F13-F24? I have never seen them in black... I'm going to have to use 12 beige/grey keys on my next black board... I would pick up F24 if F13-F23 are picked up by other people.
You never cease to amaze me, it's come to a point where I don't know if you're just trolling us.
You never cease to amaze me, it's come to a point where I don't know if you're just trolling us.
You never cease to amaze me, it's come to a point where I don't know if you're just trolling us.that's really how you know it's the ultimate troll
it's well known that i'm a troll.
anyway people are tired of you suggesting that other people pay for the things that only you want. to be explicit, this is a problem. no one else cares about F13-F24, for example, so if you want it, you need to pay for it (all of it).
You will NEVER let that go, will you? :-P
I love this forum, even the people I dislike. Nobody in this thread so far
Now that you mentioned it, we need to see who hasn't posted on this thread yet to deduce who you dislike. :D
I'd like to adopt the German Ü if it's not more than 15$
how much more?
Wow... You guys really like to talk about me while I'm sleeping... It's kinda creepy... Though It's been weird for a while now cause I've been finding new threads and there are already people talking about me in them...
My offer still stands to sponsor F24 if F13-F23 are sponsored by other people.
I will adopt F13-F23 if F25-F36 are sponsored by other people.i will adopt ripster if his ego is adopted by other people.
I will adopt F13-F23 if F25-F36 are sponsored by other people.
That "The Light" keyboard that hazeluff is making is going to have 2 function rows. There aren't any vintage "Black" F13-F24 keys so I will have to use "Beige/Grey" ones from Tarkoon.
Two is better than one. I'll take F3, too!
We should allow the winner of the auction to create their own ESC key.
Could you provide more details how you envision this would work? I assume it will be an Esc key that is not using the Cherry font we are trying to create? This could be interesting.
Could you provide more details how you envision this would work? I assume it will be an Esc key that is not using the Cherry font we are trying to create? This could be interesting.
I would like to take the Ü from the German layout.
I wish to adopt F12.
What could be possible is that the winner decides a special colour combination for an novelty Esc key.
Of course there would be the normal vintage-grey-Esc but also an additional one in - for example - yellow on purple or whatever the highest bidder decides.
EDIT:
decided to create that combination to see what it looks like (obviously not the right font there..)
(Attachment) 46109[/ATTACH]
Well Okay, lets assume that it is a basic, full name that is going towards the overall name of the set. If I were to win, with my current bid, the keycap that I would be looking to have as the ESC key would be RCT (or R.C.T.). Vanity, in the end, is the fuel for fires. Now, if someone else were to win, I would say a simple design of their choice could be used as the "official" esc key alternative for the set.
For RCT's suggestion, the fund from the winning bidder can cover the cost to create the special legend. To actually make keycaps out of this special legend, again, it will be up to a keycap group buy organizer to drive it. the legend can be cut. How the keycaps will be made will be outside of this adoption effort.
Does it make sense? Or have I misread what you two described?
Does it make sense? Or have I misread what you two described?
Are you saying that people wouldn't automatically include a keycap representing me in their buy?
as long as there's still money for RCT's donation to pay for F11 and two of the remaining numpad keys...
Holy F! Will you have ads?
/commercial
http://www.twitch.tv/shoot201
If anyone wants to see me making SVGs. >.> I'll be on a few hours.
Are you broadcasting your desktop live? Seems kinda narcissistic... Do people actually watch you for hours on end? Creepy stalker-like geeks with greasy complexions and spindly fingers?
are you constantly talking ****?
are you constantly talking ****?
this image or video has been moved or deleted.
im offended!
yes, it was that bad.
10 second rule applies to everything, not just food you dropped on the floor
Are you broadcasting your desktop live? Seems kinda narcissistic... Do people actually watch you for hours on end? Creepy stalker-like geeks with greasy complexions and spindly fingers?
The_Ed you are now a Senior Member.
i watch you watch him O.O
Warn us first
I had your stream open in the background and forgot about it. BAM music starts playing lol.
You are crazy. Wouldn't have thought that I need to make pictures of the last keys so fast ~~
Brah is the operative word if your pic post in my subforum is any indication.
I happened to have scared a ton of people ****less with that.
G G G G Baby baby baby~
would it make sense to have WASD prototype these as laser infilled before having melissa start the DS legends?
no
nojust an idea...
indubitably
I just finished ALL the legends.
(Attachment) 47343[/ATTACH]
Lets wrap this up and start a GB with these legends. ==
I just finished ALL the legends
(Attachment) 47443[/ATTACH]
When will you start taking payments for the legends ?
(Attachment) 47443[/ATTACH]
Is that Jinro? He looks like Liquid`Jinro.
Haha...nope it's Ash. Guess this shows my age. :)
(Attachment) 47450[/ATTACH]
(Attachment) 47462[/ATTACH]
They call me Hazeluff. But you can call me Haze.
So both of my keys would have side-printing. I think that Cherry normally pad-printed that part. I assume that SP also cannot put a legend there, right?
I believe some of the Korean sets have had side printing. I'll ask Melissa about it.
Hazeluff, you are a machine. Before everyone starts picking this image apart though, remember that we are still tweaking these. We have an SVG for every key and now it's just a matter of refining and perfecting them.
Can I steal mine and put them in my sig? :attention:
I'll adopt F11.
I took all the left... what's gona to do with these? not quite clear about it....
The first thing we will do is a Dolch replica set.If this is true there had damn well better be an option for a moogle-less set!
imsto is a true american hero
OK, that went over my head.well, imsto is an awesome guy regardless. thanks man!
The first thing we will do is a Dolch replica set.
Not to mention we are replicating keys from a German company....
(Attachment) 47462[/ATTACH]
They call me Hazeluff. But you can call me Haze.
(Attachment) 47462[/ATTACH]
They call me Hazeluff. But you can call me Haze.
New naming rights high bid from Sherryton at $120!
Nice. Even that authentic huge tilde.
Sent From Brother Ripster's iPad
Rounded Calibri or VAG next round!
i see absolutely no reason why we should make it available to anyone who asks. as we agreed on before, the leaders of the cabal should have first say and be the signatories as far as SP is concerned, and we can determine on demand whether to honor requests for use of the legends.
example: a korean board would like to use our legends, but starts a group buy for keys that they _do not allow non-koreans to participate in_. that would be ridiculous and an abuse of our monetary contributions and other efforts.
Making it totally open would mean telling Melissa to let anyone who asks use them. The consensus from earlier is that we don't want that.
i see absolutely no reason why we should make it available to anyone who asks. as we agreed on before, the leaders of the cabal should have first say and be the signatories as far as SP is concerned, and we can determine on demand whether to honor requests for use of the legends.
example: a korean board would like to use our legends, but starts a group buy for keys that they _do not allow non-koreans to participate in_. that would be ridiculous and an abuse of our monetary contributions and other efforts.
what's the harm? as if access or tipro or any other company would be interested in these..I agree 100% with mbc. Restricting use of the molds merely promotes these exclusionary practices. It's better to lead by example than to stoop to the same pointless behavior.
since this is a community effort it should be available to the whole community, and since anyone can register...
I mean even if ODT uses these who cares
or they appear on some random pos board, good, more boards with decent font
or melissa promotes the font, great, they stay longer in business
do you have an example of a possible downside to this?
but we wouldn't lose anything
others gain != our loss
PS: there are currently way over 500! sets in current group buys, I dont think we rely on any other community if we want anything done
I agree 100% with mbc. Restricting use of the molds merely promotes these exclusionary practices. It's better to lead by example than to stoop to the same pointless behavior.
Yeah, I'm being quite bitter.
But IIRC the conclusion before was.
Anyone using it for a GB, can come ask us for permission to use it and we will most likely grant it. We just didn't want people running off using our legends and doing whatever they please without even the courtesy of asking/crediting us.
wait .. what?
who is we and ours??
wait .. what?
who is we and ours??
Can't SP help with the cost? Since afterwards they will be able to sell this font to other customer, it might interest them.
Yeah, but do we need to own the font legend ?
If they do a very good price reduction, isn't it in the interest of everybody to let them use the font too?
Now, sure the whole « Adopt a keycap legend » will make less sense, but still, if you get half price, or even less.
See page 7 in this topic for the start of a discussion on this particular topic and related ones.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?28324-Adopt-a-Keycap-Legend-with-Cherry-Replica-Font!-(Cherry-font-not-some-other-font)/page7
Is there no chance that you can somehow play up how much business potential there is for them in this and get a legend discount?
Any updates?
Guys, sorry for the inactivity in the last few weeks. Good thing is we didn't waste any energy on posts and discussion that would have been ghrolled back. :-) I hope the ghroll back problem is over.
A couple updates. First, legend fee is going to be $45 each, after checking with Melissa. Second, hashbaz, Hazeluff, and I are wondering if you guys would be OK with sending in your adoption fees using personal checks. Paypal is getting harder and harder to deal with. Personal checks would be a good option and it would be free of Paypal's iron claw.
Would you guys be oppose to personal checks?
When did this policy start? I will probably go well over $20k just doing R4. :/
The_Ed, do you have a checking account? Do you write checks to pay bills?
Oh I'll make excuses... I'm too lazy to get off my ass and go to the post office, and it's always closed anyways.
So there...
Just about any form of payment will have to answer to the IRS if it goes over 20k.
Only way around this would be multiple collectors.
Just about any form of payment will have to answer to the IRS if it goes over 20k.
Only way around this would be multiple collectors.
How do you guys pay SP? Via PayPal as well?
Actually, if you accept even $1 via Paypal and transfer that to your bank account you are supposed to claim it on your taxes, state and federal.
If you ever get audited and they ask for bank records and see Paypal anywhere (withdrawl or deposit), it will have the IRS looking for blood...
Remember that if you do F13-F24 I will sponsor F24.
Why does the capslock in the OP not look like cherry or moogle?
You forgot about this question...
Caps
Lock
Use this. It's one of my 3 vintage cherry un-stepped capslocks.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=41022&d=1329599426)
What about this
we start a group buy with this font and share the fees between the adopters and the gb participants.
if we'd get 150+ orders the legend fees wont hurt at all...
Ah sweet, Its just the spacing. = ) Yeah, I'll have that fixed. (don't expect updated image)
What about this
we start a group buy with this font and share the fees between the adopters and the gb participants.
if we'd get 150+ orders the legend fees wont hurt at all...
Maybe it could start with a Cherry black on white replica set. Those seem to be very popular and in demand.
@The_Ed
I was meaning the Ü, nothing with function keys ;)
Legendary Inflation here. Melissa should see Fed Interest Rates.
I'm going to have to drop out of this as well. $45 for a squiggle (~) and a tiny line (`) is honestly ridiculous. Sorry.
Custom is never cheap.
snowboarder3, can you put that 20 toward one of my legends? that would help me out quite a bit
yeahThis is an excellent idea. It seems that many people are willing to pay ~20 for legends, but maybe $45 is a little much for some. Is there a good way to "split" credit for a key? Every bit helps. Cooperatively paying for a key legend is a good idea, I preceive.
So is this just to make SP add a new font to their collection, or are you actually creating a group buy with a set that is identical to a cherry set?
Why not ask querkeys to give this a go? Infilled looks nice.
would you mind pitching in for the standard legend set instead? i think we should prioritize paying for that before we go trying to add legends
Note that the $45 cost is new SP policy. Formerly the legends were $25-$45 depending on size and complexity. I sent Melissa a bunch of the Cherry font SVGs recently and asked her for legend fee quotes and she told me that they are moving to a flat $45 for all legends. My guess is that the surge in GH group buys has something to do with this. :-/
Also note that besides Paypal limiting and otherwise threatening several group buy organizers' accounts in the last year, the IRS now requires them to report accounts that receive $20K or more through at least 200 transactions. This has real tax implications for me and others. It would be great if we could find another way to do large group buys. Doing the legend fee collection, plus the moogle3 group buy and the Dolch group buy later on will definitely put me over $20K and 200 transactions.
Did not read through the entire thread, but if possible I'd be interested in adopting what ever keys would be required to make a complete set for a Steelseries 7G (I believe that is bigass enter, small backspace, small | \)
Did not read through the entire thread, but if possible I'd be interested in adopting what ever keys would be required to make a complete set for a Steelseries 7G (I believe that is bigass enter, small backspace, small | \)
key size doesn't matter. we're adopting the legends.
having a kit made for your board will be the problem
EchoEchoi said it much cooler tho
You can take over pg dn for me. If I only pay for one I wanna keep pg up.
key size doesn't matter. we're adopting the legends.
having a kit made for your board will be the problem
And just how do we coordinate that?
I could maybe take F3, what do I get if I do?
They are all $45. probably plus PP fee later. I will make those down for you guys.
EDIT: BTW are you getting notification email for GH like 10 minutes late? It is better than last week, it was like an hour late. Is it me or does it happen to everyone, too?
But isn't it always $45?
If something better comes up I would like to trade my cap!
But isn't it always $45?
If something better comes up I would like to trade my cap!
Ha got to love rumours.
If I get something awesome then I could adopt two but I would need to know what that would be first!
Sorry for the delay. The table on the first page has been updated. number 4 and F3 are open for adoption.thanks a ton litster. lmk if i can help past my adoptions
A small update. We are going to start the group buy in the US/EU as well as in South Korea with our buddies over KBDMania. that should really help us to get the project going. to work around some of Paypal's limitation, we may have a few trusted people collecting money the spread the payments out. Still have to work this out with hashbaz, hazeluff, and our KBDMania buddies.
Also, we are thinking about doing something special for the adopted parents. Something that is only available to our adopted parents and is not available anyway else or any time in the future. This is still being planned now and could still fall through. But want to be transparent to you all. So don't hate us if it doesn't work out. We really want to get this going. :-)
Coming soon...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jIH8d.png)
aaaand the order thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?32496) is up. I plan to start sending out legend adoption invoices soon as well. The train is moving!
I'm looking forward to this!
What will be the first GB to use them?
Really?!
Can anyone fill me in on what makes the Dolch keyboards so valuable/rare? Is it that they have Cherry Doubleshots?
Also, should this thread be closed now that all the keys have been adopted again? Just wondering.
Nailed it.Yah. Scarily accurate if I do say so myself. :D
There was a totally unrelated question that probably got torn apart
edit: This one - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34906.msg645976;boardseen#new
Closer everyday ;)
Closer everyday ;)
:)
Think about how many errors there will be!
Melissa told me today that we should be able to do the number row in variable-width outline format, rather than the uniform-width centerline style that the moogle keys are done in. That means more detail and a better match to real Cherry keys! :D
the first set will be dolch replicas. the second set will probably be something secret we've been cooking up. we're going to try to make these orders move as quickly as possible. this may mean limited runs.
So how much money has been collected through donations, gh key sales, red cherry caps etc.?It would probably be even more if the extras from the red cherry caps would go on sale :-X
How far are we away from the actual legend costs
Is this still being bid on?
It's kind of in limbo atm.
just want to drop in and say that these will be made if i have to go to sp and cut them myself ;) )
As for the set name auction, I have no idea what the status of that is. Litster?
As for the set name auction, I have no idea what the status of that is. Litster?What happened to Zombie Dolch?
The name auction predates the Zombie Dolch thing. And at any rate, that's just the name of the Dolch replica set, not the legends themselves.
Only available to the person that purchased it, unless they give explicit permission to others. And yes, $45 per new legend.Is it per legend, per key? For example, a new M legend is made, it is only for that row profile? To make a modifier or different row profile with the same M, it would be another legend fee?
Only available to the person that purchased it, unless they give explicit permission to others. And yes, $45 per new legend.
So who all (from GH) would actually have access to these? You guys aren't having people adopt (pay for) legends and only you have access to the fancy smancy cherry replica legends are you? :(!
I believe a legend for a 1x1 key can be used on any 1x1 profile, but changing key size is a new legend fee
So who all (from GH) would actually have access to these? You guys aren't having people adopt (pay for) legends and only you have access to the fancy smancy cherry replica legends are you? :(!
We went over this extensively earlier in the thread. ;)
This is a community project, funded by geekhack (and kbdmania), and the legends will be available for use in group buys for free across all the enthusiast fora.
The only real restriction that the Cherry Steering Committee (litster, hazeluff, and I) are considering is that we don't want the legends exploited to make money. To that end we are retaining "rights" to the legends with SP as opposed to just telling Melissa to let anyone use them. Hopefully this won't be an issue wrt group buys.
It's cherry replica! Just find a picture of cherry doubleshots
It's cherry replica! Just find a picture of cherry doubleshots
If you find the GB for some of the sets, you can see pictures of what the Replica font looks like. I don't have the link on hand, however.
Cheers,
No one's upset with you sam. In the past we've done things like diamond symbols or blanks for the winkeys. There is also an actual Windows logo key too. Unless we decide on something new we won't need an adopter for the winkeys.
Nope not too late. We'll know what we need soon.
please let me know whats left after as well, maybe i can adopt a J :)Nope not too late. We'll know what we need soon.
Awesome! Thanks very much.
Are there orphans and can i pick one?
- Ron | samwisekoi
I'll take proper pics tonight next to both black and white (and Dolch!) keys.
I hope it would be:
1. Dolch replica
2. Beige replica
EDIT: hash, which one is the original cherry?
EDIT: hash, which one is the original cherry?
:D :D :D
An RA set would be cool.red on dark grey. contrast is for suckers.
EDIT: hash, which one is the original cherry?
:D :D :D
Im guessing its the black set..........
In case the GMK deal pans out, I suggest that the funds raised here goes towards getting a few legends which GMK may be missing, like windows logo, GH, DT, KBM, OTD logos etc
I'm seriously bummed by this, and would be happy to take it over, but pretty sure the senior GH council of cherry would prefer not.
I also think this should go forward, as i3oilermaker does. I know we will probably get similar results by going with GMK for some things, but I don't think we should forget about Signature Plastics completely. They have worked with us to make the things we wanted possible. Hell, look at the center stemmed stepped caps lock as an example. They have short lead times, and their customer service is excellent. They are involved with this community on a personal level that a large, German company like GMK probably never will be. If I were to run a group buy for a full set of key caps at this moment in time, I would go with SP. Being able to use the Cherry font with SP can only benefit us, even if not for replica sets such as Dolch, etc. It simply gives us another font choice, other than SP's standard (WYSE) font legends.
I also think this should go forward, as i3oilermaker does. I know we will probably get similar results by going with GMK for some things, but I don't think we should forget about Signature Plastics completely. They have worked with us to make the things we wanted possible. Hell, look at the center stemmed stepped caps lock as an example. They have short lead times, and their customer service is excellent. They are involved with this community on a personal level that a large, German company like GMK probably never will be. If I were to run a group buy for a full set of key caps at this moment in time, I would go with SP. Being able to use the Cherry font with SP can only benefit us, even if not for replica sets such as Dolch, etc. It simply gives us another font choice, other than SP's standard (WYSE) font legends.
Yes, let's keep it going.
You see, their morals, their code, it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these... these civilized people, they'll eat each other. - Joker
Cherry font, and bring back Miami I say. With the proposed MOQ with GMK, Miami is determined to be SP.Santa Scarlett GIRLSHARK WIZBRO Johansson Claus REALLY wants MIAMI! give the man/boy/girl/shark what 'it' wants! or he/she might put his/her wizard hat on backwards and use his/her powers for evil!! We all know SSGWJC's powers grow tenfold during the holiday season!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! :eek:(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/11/9uzy2aru.jpg)
Good to see so much support still. The project is merely paused, not scrapped. And from what we've seen from GMK so far, GBs with them will likely be difficult due to high MOQ. That of course may change but then again it might not.
I suspect that we'll end up in a world of periodic large GMK sets that come out from vendors and/or multi-forum GBs, and smaller more nimble Cherry replica GBs from SP (hopefully using their new simplified order form and pricing).
Just got reminded of this project, and got a question: will the font be available in any kind of font file (svg/ttf/otf/whatever) with a friendly license? I think I've seen someone write it before, but don't really know where.:>
In case the GMK deal pans out, I suggest that the funds raised here goes towards getting a few legends which GMK may be missing, like windows logo, GH, DT, KBM, OTD logos etc
That ... is actually a fantastic idea. Hopefully it's doable. ;)
Yay! By the way, I'm for the idea of getting scoops, that would be LEGIT!
though danielucf has floated the idea of piggybacking onto the Toxic set since they have so many orders already and will already be delayed proofing that set's custom plastic color.
soon™ ??i hope this project apply to toxic.Heh stealer.
drooooooooool
I'm convinced that SP won't be superfluous anytime soon. GMK sure don't appear like they're ever going to be as flexible and accessible as SP.It is also impossible to order in small quantities from GMK. GMK group buys are going to force people to buy a ton of keys they won't ever need so that the minority can get iso keys, 1.75x right shifts, and other obscure keys.
(I'll volunteer Toxic group buy again right now)
I'm convinced that SP won't be superfluous anytime soon. GMK sure don't appear like they're ever going to be as flexible and accessible as SP.It is also impossible to order in small quantities from GMK. GMK group buys are going to force people to buy a ton of keys they won't ever need so that the minority can get iso keys, 1.75x right shifts, and other obscure keys.
If around 75% of the money is already collected for the legends we need to just finish them, collect the rest of the money needed (I'll volunteer Toxic group buy again right now) and enjoy all the key sets with nice legends. I will also offer help again, I have time since I only have one real class this semester and it is really easy.
Those in charge of this have been active and posting in other threads so I'm not sure whats up, but I certainly don't have a warm fuzzy feeling any more.
Those in charge of this have been active and posting in other threads so I'm not sure whats up, but I certainly don't have a warm fuzzy feeling any more.
I believe that hash said not even a week ago the project has to go through a whole new round of prototyping, because new svgs have come out that greatly increase the accuracy of the replica. This alone will set the project back that no amount of $$$ will be able to fix. It's not uncommon for SP to drag their feet when it comes to prototypes. (The DOX color took quite a while to get iirc)
There could be a conspiracy, but unlike some, I trust hash a lot more.
Cheers,
I don't believe we are waiting on SP for anything. Hash backed off while the GMK thing started thrashing. I think there are still more prototypes to do:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=28324.msg781381#msg781381
The other complication has been the changing notion of what is possible for SP to do wrt the quality of the legends. Without getting into details, I'll say that Hazeluff's original SVGs have been more or less thrown out for something more true to the original (that is not a slam on Hazel's skills, just that what we know about SP's processes has changed since he did them). Then most recently of all, lysol posted his excellent TIFF files of the Cherry legends. I've been in the process of using those to generate new and improved SVGs which should give us excellent fidelity to the originals.
Those in charge of this have been active and posting in other threads so I'm not sure whats up, but I certainly don't have a warm fuzzy feeling any more.
Those in charge of this have been active and posting in other threads so I'm not sure whats up, but I certainly don't have a warm fuzzy feeling any more.
Please chill out dan, nothing is wrong. If you go back a couple of pages I owned up freely to the fact that this has taken much, much longer than I would have liked, and I list a bunch of reasons. Chief among them is that I'm busy and I have a family and I only have so much time each day to do keyboard stuff (much of which was recently consumed with shipping tsangan kits). This was on the backburner for a variety of reasons for a long time, but it *will* finish. You are right that I should have posted more often on the status of things. It was always my intention to do so, but you know, busy. I don't post nearly as much as I used to, in general, so :P
A few people have offered to help finish this out, and that's probably a good idea. Again, I go into detail about this a couple pages back, but for a long time we (hazel, litster and I) felt we needed to be very careful with these legends. In retrospect that seems really silly. I'll be posting the SVGs once this is all done with, and of course the finished tooling at SP will be freely usable by anyone who wants to do a GB with them. Use by vendors is still something I'm not sure about since these are community-funded, but again the landscape has changed since this project started so I'm feeling a lot more liberal than before.
I'll post a more detailed breakdown of where we are later on when I get home.
Am I misunderstanding this paragraph then? New SVGs means new prototypes iirc?
Cheers,
QuoteAm I misunderstanding this paragraph then? New SVGs means new prototypes iirc?
Cheers,
SVG is the file format for the vector images of the legends.
I think if its a project that may make a profit, as long as its not a commercial deal, perhaps as long as they keep everything transparent and donate a percentage of the profit, like 25%, to geekhack may be good. Thoughts?PROJECT SCOOPS NEXT!
QuoteAm I misunderstanding this paragraph then? New SVGs means new prototypes iirc?
Cheers,
SVG is the file format for the vector images of the legends.
I would imagine that updating the SVG files for the legends would necessitate new prototypes to ensure the legends are better (and not worse) and don't have any issues. That said, if the changes are slight, perhaps it's not necessary. WE don't want to overthink a potential issue that's 0.01 mm in reality.
I think if its a project that may make a profit, as long as its not a commercial deal, perhaps as long as they keep everything transparent and donate a percentage of the profit, like 25%, to geekhack may be good. Thoughts?
As a vendor who would like to use these legends in an upcoming group buy, I would be willing to make a donation to GH as some sort of licensing fee, but I don't want to set precedent. I already messaged Hashbaz that I want to do as much as I can to contribute toward the project instead of just using them. Whether that is my time making .svgs, helping with funding, or contributing in some other way, I'm not looking to take advantage of other people's work. I do know that just about everyone here could go a long time without another WYSE set being made, so in the interest of those people, I'd like to do what I can to get them the legends they want if possible.
I have expressed my opinion on this as well, that when this set is polished it should replace the WYSE set for group buys and vendor sets. It benefits the GH users because they have more Cherry font sets available for them to purchase, whether they choose to join a group buy and front the money for production, or pay a vendor who fronted the money. In my opinion the more color options there are the better for the GH consumer.
Thanks for your cordial opinion, I think this is a constructive conversation. (Not to say it shouldn't be split eventually...) You make good points certainly, but I think there's also a case to be had for allowing vendors access. I seriously doubt everyone will come to consensus on this, but my personal opinion is that the more options people have when you go to buy keycaps, the better. If there's a scenario where vendors use the legends and it effectively kills lower-cost group buys causing the prices to inflate, that wouldn't be good. I guess I just don't see it playing out that way. Perhaps the middle ground is to retain rights, and allow access to vendors with certain fair-use rules. That way, if things get out of hand, it's easy to correct moving forward.aggiejy,
If events with GMK teach us anything, it should be that vendor access does kill low-cost GBs. There won't be a community skidata, dolch, etc. GMK buy because ONE vendor got there first.
Wasn’t some GPL stuff already brought up somewhere?Because the GH community is donating a ton of time and effort into the project, and we don't want vendors to take advantage of this project and profit from it.
I think that would be a cool solution, if SP allows it that is. Additions to the Cherry font (other languages, whatever else there may be) can be used by anyone. That’s the only thing that would really be a **** move, use this font, add stuff to it and not allow its usage.
There’s absolutely no reason to prevent Cherry font sets from being sold at e.g. techkeys, really. And who else is there? There are no evil big companies ordering from SP and selling to us nerds. What’s the worst that could happen? SP Cherry font sets appearing on ebay? I’d like that. :P The more color options there are the better for the GH consumer, indeed!
Honestly though it would be the same profits they would get off of WYSE font or any other font available to them. I can't really see people paying a premium for any set with Cherry font once the legend costs are covered. It would be near impossible for vendors to pay back legend fees to those that have purchased Cherry replica sets and the like. Also anyone can now take the Cherry font files released and make their own SVGs. I don't care either way if vendors get access, just playing Devil's advocate and throwing stuff out there.Wasn’t some GPL stuff already brought up somewhere?Because the GH community is donating a ton of time and effort into the project, and we don't want vendors to take advantage of this project and profit from it.
I think that would be a cool solution, if SP allows it that is. Additions to the Cherry font (other languages, whatever else there may be) can be used by anyone. That’s the only thing that would really be a **** move, use this font, add stuff to it and not allow its usage.
There’s absolutely no reason to prevent Cherry font sets from being sold at e.g. techkeys, really. And who else is there? There are no evil big companies ordering from SP and selling to us nerds. What’s the worst that could happen? SP Cherry font sets appearing on ebay? I’d like that. :P The more color options there are the better for the GH consumer, indeed!
Because the GH community is donating a ton of time and effort into the project, and we don't want vendors to take advantage of this project and profit from it.
Honestly though it would be the same profits they would get off of WYSE font or any other font available to them. I can't really see people paying a premium for any set with Cherry font once the legend costs are covered. It would be near impossible for vendors to pay back legend fees to those that have purchased Cherry replica sets and the like. Also anyone can now take the Cherry font files released and make their own SVGs. I don't care either way if vendors get access, just playing Devil's advocate and throwing stuff out there.Wasn’t some GPL stuff already brought up somewhere?Because the GH community is donating a ton of time and effort into the project, and we don't want vendors to take advantage of this project and profit from it.
I think that would be a cool solution, if SP allows it that is. Additions to the Cherry font (other languages, whatever else there may be) can be used by anyone. That’s the only thing that would really be a **** move, use this font, add stuff to it and not allow its usage.
There’s absolutely no reason to prevent Cherry font sets from being sold at e.g. techkeys, really. And who else is there? There are no evil big companies ordering from SP and selling to us nerds. What’s the worst that could happen? SP Cherry font sets appearing on ebay? I’d like that. :P The more color options there are the better for the GH consumer, indeed!
Yes but the standard WYSE font was always there. The community didn't come up with the money and spend the time creating the svg's for that.Right but a font is a font. What does it matter that one came from the community? If a vendor can sell a set of WYSE font keycaps for $80 and make a $15 profit or a set of Cherry font keycaps for $80 and make a $15 profit it doesn't matter. People will only pay so much for a set of keycaps so if Cherry font is available to ALL vendors then the limiting factor just becomes the price of the caps themselves, and people will only pay so much for a set of caps.
Firstly, Was it really necessary to attack his credentials? Why does it matter if he himself made the cherry font or not? That's just low and contributes exactly 0 to this discussion. I implore you to refrain from personal attacks like that.Because the GH community is donating a ton of time and effort into the project, and we don't want vendors to take advantage of this project and profit from it.
I don't understand this sentiment. What have you contributed that is so valuable?? I don't care how it get's done, or who profits, just give me a way to buy it. Sheesh!
Imagine if the linux community insisted that no company ever profit from their efforts. Linux would be about as useful as Hurd right now. And they would never have benefited from the substantial contributions of Red Hat, IBM, and others.
Continuing my mission to squash commies...
Yes but the standard WYSE font was always there. The community didn't come up with the money and spend the time creating the svg's for that.Right but a font is a font. What does it matter that one came from the community? If a vendor can sell a set of WYSE font keycaps for $80 and make a $15 profit or a set of Cherry font keycaps for $80 and make a $15 profit it doesn't matter. People will only pay so much for a set of keycaps so if Cherry font is available to ALL vendors then the limiting factor just becomes the price of the caps themselves, and people will only pay so much for a set of caps.
Because the GH community is donating a ton of time and effort into the project, and we don't want vendors to take advantage of this project and profit from it.
Imagine if the linux community insisted that no company ever profit from their efforts. Linux would be about as useful as Hurd right now. And they would never have benefited from the substantial contributions of Red Hat, IBM, and others.
Apples and Oranges I'm afraid.AppleJewces and OrangeJewces my dear, dear OrangeJewce.
Cheers,
I think we should take more pride in this community and what it creates than that, dan. The idea of other people, whom doing nothing to contribute would mean more $$$ for them, rubs me the wrong way entirely.I think we take plenty of pride in the community, and the vendors who would use the Cherry font come from the community (feng, techkeys.us, keypop, originative, rag, etc). It isn't like Thermaltake will suddenly start sourcing it's keycaps from Signature Plastics with the geekhack Cherry replica legends. Cherry font doesn't automagically mean more money for vendors though since they could sell the exact same color set with WYSE font for the exact same amount of money. The people will decide what they are willing to pay for sets, and if Cherry replica is available for everyone there is no reason for vendors to charge a premium for it. Now if a vendor develops their own Cherry svgs and pays the legend fees then the community that has already paid once for these legends NOW will have to pay a premium again to vendors.
Cheers,
Firstly, Was it really necessary to attack his credentials? Why does it matter if he himself made the cherry font or not? That's just low and contributes exactly 0 to this discussion. I implore you to refrain from personal attacks like that.
Many companies profit from their own ADDITIONS to linux. Not linux itself. There is a huge difference here. Apples and Oranges I'm afraid. The font on the keys is basically the kernel, for all intents and purposes. So yeah, I care if someone takes it and uses it as-is for profit. Secondly, many linux purists do not like the redhat linux foundation, just like they dislike Oracle and what they are doing to MySQL. Seriously, as soon as something becomes about money, it loses a lot of its luster in my eyes.
Firstly, Was it really necessary to attack his credentials? Why does it matter if he himself made the cherry font or not? That's just low and contributes exactly 0 to this discussion. I implore you to refrain from personal attacks like that.
Many companies profit from their own ADDITIONS to linux. Not linux itself. There is a huge difference here. Apples and Oranges I'm afraid. The font on the keys is basically the kernel, for all intents and purposes. So yeah, I care if someone takes it and uses it as-is for profit. Secondly, many linux purists do not like the redhat linux foundation, just like they dislike Oracle and what they are doing to MySQL. Seriously, as soon as something becomes about money, it loses a lot of its luster in my eyes.
Wow Jewce, you are so wrong in so many ways... Can I even address them all?
First, who's credentials did I attack? Are you talking about my asking what is so valuable? That is not an ad hominem attack and it is relevant. Secondly, lots of companies profit directly from linux itself, what on earth are you talking about? Want a simple example? Every linux-based linksys wifi router. There are literally thousands more.
Finally let's not get confused about what's going on here. The clear, stated goal is to directly copy Cherry's font. That's Cherry's work, it sure doesn't belong to anyone here. Get off your high horse man. Just because you are turned off by money shouldn't change how everyone can play together. You are making the classic mistake of confusing "free" as in libre with "free" as in gratis.
What have you contributed that is so valuable??{Added Emphasis} It's obviously targeted at Mkultra. And the statement is relevant because...why? We're not debating what each of us has done for the replica project.
I quoted you directlyQuoteWhat have you contributed that is so valuable??{Added Emphasis} It's obviously targeted at Mkultra. And the statement is relevant because...why? We're not debating what each of us has done for the replica project.
No company profits by selling the linux kernel, because they can't legally do so. Companies profit by taking the linux kernels and distros, using them as a component of a completely different product (aka your example being a router) and then selling that completely new product. In my eyes that is distinctly different than me taking the linux kernel, calling it "OJ's kernel" and attempting to sell it.Ok... and we aren't talking about turning over copyright to any one. We're talking about incorporating legends into a "completely different product", to use your words. That product being physical pieces of plastic. Take a step back dude; think about what you're saying before you keep on with this metaphor.
I think that vendors appropriating the cherry font replica, slapping a new color on it and selling it is no different than the later scenario. You appear to think it's like the former. Is this interpretation incorrect?I'm too tired to explain this any more. I started the linux metaphor, but it has gone way too far. Let's just stop.
I'm not going to argue "fair use" with you in this thread, especially with regards to typesetting. I have strong suspicion that "cherry font" is actually not a copyrighted product of Cherry Corp. If it was, SP would not allow this project to move forward. One example is Exocet is a font that is used in the Diablo games and is commonly called "Diablo font" although it is in reality something different, and it is a typesetting in the public realm. I don't know if "Cherry font" is the same way, but as I believe it is. That deserves its own thread as well.Thanks for proving my point! If they don't own it, we don't own it.
Ultimately, it looks like litster and Hashbaz did all the leg work, so it's really up to them I would think. They are very capable to make good decisions, I'm sure, and I won't complain (too much :p ) whatever they do.There are a lot of people who also donated money who should have a say. But yeah I trust them to make whatever decision they see fit.
Ultimately, it looks like litster and Hashbaz did all the leg work, so it's really up to them I would think. They are very capable to make good decisions, I'm sure, and I won't complain (too much :p ) whatever they do.The only reason they have done the legwork is because they wouldn't accept help. It is still up to them though, and I think they realize they were a bit protective, and there is a chance they may still be overdoing it.
There are a lot of people who also donated money who should have a say. But yeah I trust them to make whatever decision they see fit.Money was pledged but I'm not sure how much, if any, was given freely as donations. I believe a lot of the money that has been covered so far was from selling the white on red, and black on red replica sets. I don't know if the information has been released as general knowledge so I admit I'm going on what I've seen in a couple threads.
you shall have about 500 from me very soonWow.
with special thanks to a couple of contributors
I don't understand completely how this all works svgs etc., but it's incredible that you guys are doing this. I hope I can contribute to fundraising in some way.
Wait...I can commission a custom cap from you Bunny??? YOU'RE GETTING A PM SOON
I mean no disrespect to the guys who have worked so hard to give us the Cherry replica font, it's not so special that we have to spend months on this.
I really hope we will see more DSA Retro set groupbuys!
DSA just uses the standard SP Wyse legends, does it not?
While waiting for my toxic set to come in, I can't help but note (with considerable consternation) that everybody is so hung up on Cherry font.
While Cherry does look nice and I mean no disrespect to the guys who have worked so hard to give us the Cherry replica font, it's not so special that we have to spend months on this. I personally think the DSA REtro set (which I missed and which has a colour I didn't like anyway) has a far nicer looking font. Those huge, gorgeous letters are so classical, they are begging me to type on them. The rounded profiles say: touch me! Put your fingers on me!
I really hope we will see more DSA Retro set groupbuys!