[GB] GMK Bread - We got that Bread! Update - R2 Colour Samples and Banderole

[kiyoboard]

someone help me understand what happened because i sure dont

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first mistake here is probably letting the community help you color match off of pictures
im not gonna post every instance of this because its just throughout the whole thing and you can just look in the discord

Show Image

aw man looks like the brown turned out a little light. wait thats not ral 8008

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aw man looks like the beige turned out a little light

Show Image

i didnt know gmk did this nowadays

Show Image

yay

Show Image

yay

Show Image

wait thats not ral 1015

Show Image

my colors for comparison. so basically after measuring the ral 1015 sample with a spectrometer to get valid data to send over to gmk so they could get allowed an r2 sample of ral 1015 somewhere in between the world imploded and pantone 155c is now the alpha color

Show Image

was the first sample from the second picture ral 8008 or pantone 1545c
and if it was 8008 why was he comparing it to 1545c
i dont think the designer ever actually said he changed colors anywhere nor were the final colors ever said by him so nobody knows i guess

Show Image

comparison for reference

Show Image

and if it was 1545c then i guess gmk just sucked at matching it the first time or some wild lighting
...or is it actually 8008 -> 1545c? or even a rumored 8008 -> 8011? or 1545c to 8011 because hell if i know at this point

Show Image

uh ok

Show Image

well now we know why

so basically after reading a lot of stuff in the discord server ive come to a logical conclusion that i still have no idea what is going on

Thanks for the summary. I think what is going on is that there will be a GB for GMK Bread Light :p Jokes aside, even though I like the colors as I mentioned, I don't think it is acceptable to change colors during the GB without getting approval from literally every customer in my opinion(which is of course impossible). I wonder how none of the vendors weren't aware of this. I am not sure which one is worse;
them being aware and not doing anything about it, or them not following up about color matching on something they sold, so they weren't aware at all :/ Hopefully we can get an explanation at least on what went wrong.

[Pach]

someone help me understand what happened because i sure dont

expand

More

Show Image

first mistake here is probably letting the community help you color match off of pictures
im not gonna post every instance of this because its just throughout the whole thing and you can just look in the discord

Show Image

aw man looks like the brown turned out a little light. wait thats not ral 8008

Show Image

aw man looks like the beige turned out a little light

Show Image

i didnt know gmk did this nowadays

Show Image

yay

Show Image

yay

Show Image

wait thats not ral 1015

Show Image

my colors for comparison. so basically after measuring the ral 1015 sample with a spectrometer to get valid data to send over to gmk so they could get allowed an r2 sample of ral 1015 somewhere in between the world imploded and pantone 155c is now the alpha color

Show Image

was the first sample from the second picture ral 8008 or pantone 1545c
and if it was 8008 why was he comparing it to 1545c
i dont think the designer ever actually said he changed colors anywhere nor were the final colors ever said by him so nobody knows i guess

Show Image

comparison for reference

Show Image

and if it was 1545c then i guess gmk just sucked at matching it the first time or some wild lighting
...or is it actually 8008 -> 1545c? or even a rumored 8008 -> 8011? or 1545c to 8011 because hell if i know at this point

Show Image

uh ok

Show Image

well now we know why

so basically after reading a lot of stuff in the discord server ive come to a logical conclusion that i still have no idea what is going on

Thanks for the summary. I think what is going on is that there will be a GB for GMK Bread Light :p Jokes aside, even though I like the colors as I mentioned, I don't think it is acceptable to change colors during the GB without getting approval from literally every customer in my opinion(which is of course impossible). I wonder how none of the vendors weren't aware of this. I am not sure which one is worse;
them being aware and not doing anything about it, or them not following up about color matching on something they sold, so they weren't aware at all :/ Hopefully we can get an explanation at least on what went wrong.

an actual educated guess i can make from reading the server again is that maybe the designer just threw the concepts of how color works out the window and decided to match colors to the digital renders after round 1 or something, but i have no idea why he was comparing that first sample to a pantone. maybe he decided to do it even earlier. you should be matching actual color to actual color, not to a digital recreation of a color with varied artificial lighting on an inaccurate computer monitor

[clickyblob]

They had it right during R1 in my opinion 😣

[sh_xguitar]

Ah yes, those evidence will be legendary later then.

Anyway, I don't know why maker and vendor didn't think those comment during color matching is important? I do think ilumkb (and other vendor or maker that won't do proper color match) shouldn't do color matching decision anyway. This community needs professionals to do the job done
---------
R1 is better than R2, but still not enough

They had it right during R1 in my opinion

[ben56k]

I saw their pictures on discord too at color matching R1 but at that point was the only moment where we put some comment and since I'm a newbie so useless in color matching I wasn't expecting them to change the color to something different from announced colors. Since it seems like it was discussed with ilumkb to make the alphas looks better from the first pics we got.

[IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES]

no problem, it's just GMK Banana Bread now.

I thought Buttered Pumpernickel, but I’m holding out till I see pics normalized to your bathroom lighting

i just took a peak at the designer's discord. turns out that they changed the color to something completely different between R1 (RAL 1015) and R2 (RAL 1014) of color matching. so, no amount of "normalizing to your bathroom lighting" is going to fix it. we got screwed.

Show Image

Sorry-was said in jest as pixelpushers blue sets medley photographed in different lighting is my go to for comparing blue colors. Your shots have been great and I appreciate laying out well known sets to compare to.

[dgneo]

Plum and Necro all over again

[Reebes]

someone help me understand what happened because i sure dont

expand

More

Show Image

first mistake here is probably letting the community help you color match off of pictures
im not gonna post every instance of this because its just throughout the whole thing and you can just look in the discord

Show Image

aw man looks like the brown turned out a little light. wait thats not ral 8008

Show Image

aw man looks like the beige turned out a little light

Show Image

i didnt know gmk did this nowadays

Show Image

yay

Show Image

yay

Show Image

wait thats not ral 1015

Show Image

my colors for comparison. so basically after measuring the ral 1015 sample with a spectrometer to get valid data to send over to gmk so they could get allowed an r2 sample of ral 1015 somewhere in between the world imploded and pantone 155c is now the alpha color

Show Image

was the first sample from the second picture ral 8008 or pantone 1545c
and if it was 8008 why was he comparing it to 1545c
i dont think the designer ever actually said he changed colors anywhere nor were the final colors ever said by him so nobody knows i guess

Show Image

comparison for reference

Show Image

and if it was 1545c then i guess gmk just sucked at matching it the first time or some wild lighting
...or is it actually 8008 -> 1545c? or even a rumored 8008 -> 8011? or 1545c to 8011 because hell if i know at this point

Show Image

uh ok

Show Image

well now we know why

so basically after reading a lot of stuff in the discord server ive come to a logical conclusion that i still have no idea what is going on

Thanks for going back and finding all this! Its amazing how after so much information I still have no clue as to what happened. Laughed a couple times though.

[dgneo]

Truly one of the greatest things I've seen

[pixelpusher]

no problem, it's just GMK Banana Bread now.

I thought Buttered Pumpernickel, but I’m holding out till I see pics normalized to your bathroom lighting

i just took a peak at the designer's discord. turns out that they changed the color to something completely different between R1 (RAL 1015) and R2 (RAL 1014) of color matching. so, no amount of "normalizing to your bathroom lighting" is going to fix it. we got screwed.

Show Image

Sorry-was said in jest as pixelpushers blue sets medley photographed in different lighting is my go to for comparing blue colors. Your shots have been great and I appreciate laying out well known sets to compare to.

Sadly the bathroom is taken for a while since my kitchen has been ripped out.  Currently using the bathroom to wash dishes...

[Eastji]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[StingrayShuffle]

Welp...looks like we are the owners of a new meme set. Can we agree on a new name for this set? I'm quite fond of GMK Banana Bread myself.

[Puddsy]

someone help me understand what happened because i sure dont

expand

More

Show Image

first mistake here is probably letting the community help you color match off of pictures
im not gonna post every instance of this because its just throughout the whole thing and you can just look in the discord

Show Image

aw man looks like the brown turned out a little light. wait thats not ral 8008

Show Image

aw man looks like the beige turned out a little light

Show Image

i didnt know gmk did this nowadays

Show Image

yay

Show Image

yay

Show Image

wait thats not ral 1015

Show Image

my colors for comparison. so basically after measuring the ral 1015 sample with a spectrometer to get valid data to send over to gmk so they could get allowed an r2 sample of ral 1015 somewhere in between the world imploded and pantone 155c is now the alpha color

Show Image

was the first sample from the second picture ral 8008 or pantone 1545c
and if it was 8008 why was he comparing it to 1545c
i dont think the designer ever actually said he changed colors anywhere nor were the final colors ever said by him so nobody knows i guess

Show Image

comparison for reference

Show Image

and if it was 1545c then i guess gmk just sucked at matching it the first time or some wild lighting
...or is it actually 8008 -> 1545c? or even a rumored 8008 -> 8011? or 1545c to 8011 because hell if i know at this point

Show Image

uh ok

Show Image

well now we know why

so basically after reading a lot of stuff in the discord server ive come to a logical conclusion that i still have no idea what is going on

i really don't feel like giving the colormatching lecture again but this is basically a master class in how not to do it. the screenshot of them holding it up to the screen is the funniest **** i've ever seen.

guess this set's not gonna be a keeper when mine shows up

[Ahngel]

Turns out we did not get that bread.
:sadge:

[MoltenKhor]

My only guess here is that the designer only eats Pane di semola di grano duro, an italian semolina bread that is actually yellowish like those GMK alphas.
About the mods, i'd ask GMK atleast 2 minutes less in the oven since the crust may be too much cooked.

image for reference.



Now i'l go back to my pane e mortadella

[rmendis]

Since the GB runner apparently doesn't care about posting updates to GH, after getting your money from the GB, here's the latest...




I get color matching is hard, and sometimes these things happen. However, GB runners who don't share important updates and at least make people aware of crucial discussions on geekhack, should not be permitted to run GBs here.

[Pach]

this is just speculation and my opinion but i feel like if the designer hadn't asked the community with their digital and uncalibrated mediums to provide feedback and relied on it he wouldn't have been subconsciously pressured to deliver a more "bready" set and change the colors. you have the physical sample and the physical color book, if the samples match the colors (using the spectrophotometer that may or may not have been purchased but was never elaborated on before the unannounced color change) and the renders are in accurate realistic lighting with accurate colors then there's no reason to change to completely new colors just to make it look more like the render on a digital medium that probably isn't calibrated. even so that yellow color was a massive jump, why go to that extreme

everyone's monitor views renders differently so it's best to stick with the actual color than to go off to one extreme based on people's opinions of sample pictures that will never compare as well as real life, especially if the colors arent calibrated in the picture

idr who did it (maybe it was gmk dracc) but they took a picture of the same exact keycap like i did below and provided a long explanation of how pictures suck

More

i do feel sympathy for the designer and wish him well through this misfortune, but the fault is still on him

[The0rigina1]

Is this GMK Blum?

If people don't like this, the runner can always make GMK Bread lite right? 

[Kokaloo]

oh no yet another example of people not being held responsible for their lack of accountability when handling thousands of the communities dollars due to the normalcy of group buys as a way to deliver product!
just another day in keyboards!

[hineybush]

lol wew

[HoffmanMyster]

oh no yet another example of people not being held responsible for their lack of accountability when handling thousands of the communities dollars due to the normalcy of group buys as a way to deliver product!
just another day in keyboards!

What would holding them responsible look like to you? No one is defending this guy. At this point, there's nothing to do except wait. They haven't tried to start another group buy since this started, so there's no future sales to prevent.

[LightningXI]

someone help me understand what happened because i sure dont

expand

More

Show Image

first mistake here is probably letting the community help you color match off of pictures
im not gonna post every instance of this because its just throughout the whole thing and you can just look in the discord

Show Image

aw man looks like the brown turned out a little light. wait thats not ral 8008

Show Image

aw man looks like the beige turned out a little light

Show Image

i didnt know gmk did this nowadays

Show Image

yay

Show Image

yay

Show Image

wait thats not ral 1015

Show Image

my colors for comparison. so basically after measuring the ral 1015 sample with a spectrometer to get valid data to send over to gmk so they could get allowed an r2 sample of ral 1015 somewhere in between the world imploded and pantone 155c is now the alpha color

Show Image

was the first sample from the second picture ral 8008 or pantone 1545c
and if it was 8008 why was he comparing it to 1545c
i dont think the designer ever actually said he changed colors anywhere nor were the final colors ever said by him so nobody knows i guess

Show Image

comparison for reference

Show Image

and if it was 1545c then i guess gmk just sucked at matching it the first time or some wild lighting
...or is it actually 8008 -> 1545c? or even a rumored 8008 -> 8011? or 1545c to 8011 because hell if i know at this point

Show Image

uh ok

Show Image

well now we know why

so basically after reading a lot of stuff in the discord server ive come to a logical conclusion that i still have no idea what is going on

LMAO. No wonder that, when I unboxed my set last night, the alphas looked more yellow than they should be relative to the cited RAL1015 color on the IC/GB pages!

So the designer casually went off to his small shelter in Discord, changed the colors mid-GB 'color-matching' from a RAL to a Pantone that nobody else in the GB knew about, aside from the ... 10-20(?) people who probably were present in the Discord server at the time, and decided it would be good for the hundreds of others who purchased the set.

To be honest, I'm fine with the new brown on the modifiers, but the alphas are so far off from what was marketed. A slap to the face to change it this much and not tell everyone (you could also just tell your vendors to send an email update/blast -- or post here???)

No updates on geekhack either during that entire time. Zero information about VITAL changes to the colors of the set. Way to kill any credibility as a 'budding' maker.

Also, agreed with dg, that photo with the brown sample and the monitor screen absolutely killed me LMFAO

[HoodrowThrillson]

Show Image

Truly one of the greatest things I've seen

LMAO

[Pach]

oh no yet another example of people not being held responsible for their lack of accountability when handling thousands of the communities dollars due to the normalcy of group buys as a way to deliver product!
just another day in keyboards!

oh no yet another example of people not being held responsible for their lack of accountability when handling thousands of the communities dollars due to the normalcy of group buys as a way to deliver product!
just another day in keyboards!

What would holding them responsible look like to you? No one is defending this guy. At this point, there's nothing to do except wait. They haven't tried to start another group buy since this started, so there's no future sales to prevent.

this group buy made him lose credibility and trust so no one really has to hold him responsible because it's already affected his status

[Zeelobby]

Show Image

Truly one of the greatest things I've seen

I'm done now, I can quit the hobby.

[Kokaloo]

oh no yet another example of people not being held responsible for their lack of accountability when handling thousands of the communities dollars due to the normalcy of group buys as a way to deliver product!
just another day in keyboards!

What would holding them responsible look like to you? No one is defending this guy. At this point, there's nothing to do except wait. They haven't tried to start another group buy since this started, so there's no future sales to prevent.

The dispute window for PayPal has passed, as it always does to GMK GBs so nobody can reliably get their money back. Holding them responsible would be some way of assuring that in the year+ they have to get the promised product out that GBs seemingly have no power to do. We have seen hundreds of successful group buys, and enough of them have fallen far under expectations or not delivered at all to allow people to be able to fail even once. There is more than enough time, eyes, and money to make sure stuff gets to people as advertised, but somehow it still ends up not happening.

How did Cannonkeys and ilumkb, two veteran vendors, allow this to happen? Why are they willing and able to be so hands off?

[solomonshv]

Greg is a clown. I can’t believe that picture of holding a cap to a screen is real. But it’s partially our fault for giving money for one of the COVID crowd keycap GBs.

Having said that, what the f*** happened at ilumkb??? They didn’t like GMKs matching to one color, so the solution was to manufacture a DIFFERENT color they couldn’t fully match either?

The lesson here is don’t buy any product, keycaps or otherwise, where ilumkb is the main vendor. They obviously have no issue with selling one thing but delivering another. I’d avoid them altogether if possible.

[megaforce]

Can we get a new bandolier that says GMK Yellow cake instead?

[LaserCrafter]

gotta love the "color matching" process.

[slg1993]

gmk penumbread

[zian_]

 Corn bread.

[MoarCoffeePlzzz]

You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.

[yoshifan151]

LOL what an embarrassment.

[Reebes]

You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.

Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.

Should I as a new designer be expected to disclose relevant career experience? Age?

I mean, I’m 100% with you that buyers need to have a better idea of designer competency, but I just don’t know how to communicate that.

[MoarCoffeePlzzz]

You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.

Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.

Should I as a new designer be expected to disclose relevant career experience? Age?

I mean, I’m 100% with you that buyers need to have a better idea of designer competency, but I just don’t know how to communicate that.

I totally understand where you are coming from and maybe I didn't communicate clearly. There were 24 posts made in this GH thread in between first day launch and people showing photos of their kits in-hand. None of which I can see mentioned changes -- only an edited first post that had the mention of color changes in Discord tucked away. If you use this platform to promote your product you need to make updates happen on this platform. I love providing updates (new posts) on a regular basis regardless of good, bad, or boring and there are lots of people that do this. If you don't have prior business or sales experience the least you can do is update people along the way and check in with your customers.

[Zeelobby]

You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.

Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.

Should I as a new designer be expected to disclose relevant career experience? Age?

I mean, I’m 100% with you that buyers need to have a better idea of designer competency, but I just don’t know how to communicate that.

I totally understand where you are coming from and maybe I didn't communicate clearly. There were 24 posts made in this GH thread in between first day launch and people showing photos of their kits in-hand. None of which I can see mentioned changes -- only an edited first post that had the mention of color changes in Discord tucked away. If you use this platform to promote your product you need to make updates happen on this platform. If you don't have prior business or sales experience the least you can do is update people along the way and check in with your customers.

Def a fan of geekhack threads being updated in a timely manner. It's really the only place easily accessible to all those involved.

[solomonshv]

You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.

Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.

Should I as a new designer be expected to disclose relevant career experience? Age?

I mean, I’m 100% with you that buyers need to have a better idea of designer competency, but I just don’t know how to communicate that.

Note that he said, “I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills.” Ilumkb was collecting the money, they placed this order, they knew the color was changed and saw the color chips. They even put their logo on the box. It was their job to make this doesn’t happen. We trust vendors to overlook the manufacturing because we can’t. If this guy was running the GB himself like in the old days, I wouldn’t have bought it. Not even if it was $20. Let alone $200. I was under the impression that someone with experience was also at the wheel.

[kiyoboard]

You really hate to see it. There are tons of successful vendors and designers that follow a strict policy when running their buys. Support people you trust or reputable designers that give consistent results. Being a designer alone should not be the benchmark for what you need to run a GB in our space -- aspects of business, finance, management, and logistics need to be just as important. I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills after being burned in the past from similar issues. Sorry for the ones that didn't get the set they were shown.

Hmm so how can new designers prove to you that they have these skills? If it’s only through running successful group buys, it seems a bit like a catch 22.

Should I as a new designer be expected to disclose relevant career experience? Age?

I mean, I’m 100% with you that buyers need to have a better idea of designer competency, but I just don’t know how to communicate that.

Note that he said, “I personally only support designers and vendors that have these skills.” Ilumkb was collecting the money, they placed this order, they knew the color was changed and saw the color chips. They even put their logo on the box. It was their job to make this doesn’t happen. We trust vendors to overlook the manufacturing because we can’t. If this guy was running the GB himself like in the old days, I wouldn’t have bought it. Not even if it was $20. Let alone $200. I was under the impression that someone with experience was also at the wheel.

Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this. Maybe I am wrong, but at least in my mind, vendors' responsibility is making sure everything is going on track, everything is going as smoothly as possible and designers that they work with are kept in check. Otherwise if they are not going to look over the production, what is to stop someone to do the ultimate prank and totally change the colors to something not even close just for some fun.

Also as customers, we give our money to vendors. I think at that stage all the customer complaints should go to vendor. As a customer, I don't think I have to know who is the designer etc. I might be someone who is not following geekhack/discord at all, and just buying a keycap for my OEM Razor keyboard.

Regardless of what I think, I feel like at this stage there should be some clear definition on who is responsible of what, and when something like this happens, what are customers' options. Based on the previous similar events, I feel like everyone is going to defer the responsibility now, and people are just going to say "if you don't like it, sell it for more than what you paid for' (which is totally not the point).

(Note that I am saying all this even though I am fairly happy with the colors and intending on keeping the set)

[7h3of7]

Show Image

Truly one of the greatest things I've seen

This is my favorite picture of all time from this hobby.

[Bachoo]

Show Image

Truly one of the greatest things I've seen

This is a modern day masterpiece, I've never seen anything so bold, he is truely the martyr of our time, but we are too blinded by our own rage and hubris to see this individual's guiding light. We are lost as a community.

[treeleaf64]

Accidental judge

Wtf is the color matching? ??  You realize people are waiting 1+ year to get this  product and you are cutting corner like this? 

[solomonshv]

Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.

ilumkb is the lead vendor. they are the ones placing the order with GMK and they get to see the sample color chips. cannonkeys and the other vendors have no input on any of this. they are just proxies. all they do is pay a factory invoice for the sets they order then wait. i kinda stopped reading after that. sorry.

[Pach]

Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.

ilumkb is the lead vendor. they are the ones placing the order with GMK and they get to see the sample color chips. cannonkeys and the other vendors have no input on any of this. they are just proxies. all they do is pay a factory invoice for the sets they order then wait. i kinda stopped reading after that. sorry.

yeah ilumkb helped the designer check the r2 samples, but apparently they didn't realize that it's not a good idea to change to a completely different color

[Pach]

Accidental judge

Wtf is the color matching? ??  You realize people are waiting 1+ year to get this  product and you are cutting corner like this? 

(Attachment Link)

nah the ~10 people in the server at the time were unsatisfied with the original colors (as well as the designer a bit) so the designer decided to not accept the samples, talked to a bunch of experts, spend time to meet personally with the ilkb guy and ends up changing colors completely to try to satisfy more people. its the complete opposite of cutting corners but in the complete wrong direction

also just speculation who knows

[kiyoboard]

Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.

ilumkb is the lead vendor. they are the ones placing the order with GMK and they get to see the sample color chips. cannonkeys and the other vendors have no input on any of this. they are just proxies. all they do is pay a factory invoice for the sets they order then wait. i kinda stopped reading after that. sorry.

I was basically agreeing with you, but way to make a conversation with people I guess... That said, them being lead vendor doesn't defer responsibility from other vendors in my opinion. I think they still have the responsibility to follow the production for something they sell on their page and profit from. Like if I was a "proxy" vendor, I would occasionally send emails to "lead" vendor to get updates on what is going on. Again, since there is no clear definition on who is responsible from what, that is just my opinion. Also, of course we don't know what exactly happened, and maybe the other vendors asked about update and ilumkb said everything is going according to plan.

Also regarding to supporting vendors we trust, I really hope that in the future we can get multiple regional vendors. I feel like that can give option to customers to pick vendor they want rather than missing out a set they want, and having competition between vendors can only be a good thing for customers as each of them tries to make their service better than the others.

[treeleaf64]

nah the ~10 people in the server at the time were unsatisfied with the original colors (as well as the designer a bit) so the designer decided to not accept the samples, talked to a bunch of experts, spend time to meet personally with the ilkb guy and ends up changing colors completely to try to satisfy more people. its the complete opposite of cutting corners but in the complete wrong direction

also just speculation who knows

This is after the group buy right? not sure why this was not made public until recently

[Zeelobby]

Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.

ilumkb is the lead vendor. they are the ones placing the order with GMK and they get to see the sample color chips. cannonkeys and the other vendors have no input on any of this. they are just proxies. all they do is pay a factory invoice for the sets they order then wait. i kinda stopped reading after that. sorry.

I was basically agreeing with you, but way to make a conversation with people I guess... That said, them being lead vendor doesn't defer responsibility from other vendors in my opinion. I think they still have the responsibility to follow the production for something they sell on their page and profit from. Like if I was a "proxy" vendor, I would occasionally send emails to "lead" vendor to get updates on what is going on. Again, since there is no clear definition on who is responsible from what, that is just my opinion. Also, of course we don't know what exactly happened, and maybe the other vendors asked about update and ilumkb said everything is going according to plan.

Also regarding to supporting vendors we trust, I really hope that in the future we can get multiple regional vendors. I feel like that can give option to customers to pick vendor they want rather than missing out a set they want, and having competition between vendors can only be a good thing for customers as each of them tries to make their service better than the others.

Dunno if this makes sense. If Samsung ships buggy phones, is Best Buy responsible for the phones being buggy? No. Best Buy will take returns and refund money, or the users can decide to wait for an update.

This is the exact same case here. Vendors not involved in the GB submission really have no say in the color matching process. They've already taken orders and submitted them. If customers don't like the final product they can return it for a refund, but it's not the 4th party vendors' responsibility to hold hands for the process. Most have a laundry list of their own stuff they're submitting and working on. The hope is that the vendor who handled the submission will push the designer and GMK to get it right. I have to imagine most designers and 3rd party vendors would get frustrated with 5 other regional vendors constantly telling them what they want, especially if those regional vendors don't agree with each other. Then what?

And the reason sales aren't spread across multiple vendors in the same region is logistics. It'd be a nightmare and costly to not bulk ship sets to a final destination. Not to mention the moq needed for production might be so small at some to not even be worth the time. Plus it's another product launch to handle, for every keyset instead of every 4th or 5th as vendors are rotated around now.

[MIGHTY CHICKEN]

why bread yellow, why yellow bread? so many questions to ask

[kiyoboard]

Not sure why you keep singling out ilumkb, but I also think that vendors are more responsible than the designer in situations like this.

ilumkb is the lead vendor. they are the ones placing the order with GMK and they get to see the sample color chips. cannonkeys and the other vendors have no input on any of this. they are just proxies. all they do is pay a factory invoice for the sets they order then wait. i kinda stopped reading after that. sorry.

I was basically agreeing with you, but way to make a conversation with people I guess... That said, them being lead vendor doesn't defer responsibility from other vendors in my opinion. I think they still have the responsibility to follow the production for something they sell on their page and profit from. Like if I was a "proxy" vendor, I would occasionally send emails to "lead" vendor to get updates on what is going on. Again, since there is no clear definition on who is responsible from what, that is just my opinion. Also, of course we don't know what exactly happened, and maybe the other vendors asked about update and ilumkb said everything is going according to plan.

Also regarding to supporting vendors we trust, I really hope that in the future we can get multiple regional vendors. I feel like that can give option to customers to pick vendor they want rather than missing out a set they want, and having competition between vendors can only be a good thing for customers as each of them tries to make their service better than the others.

Dunno if this makes sense. If Samsung ships buggy phones, is Best Buy responsible for the phones being buggy? No. Best Buy will take returns and refund money, or the users can decide to wait for an update.

This is the exact same case here. Vendors not involved in the GB submission really have no say in the color matching process. They've already taken orders and submitted them. If customers don't like the final product they can return it for a refund, but it's not the 4th party vendors' responsibility to hold hands for the process. Most have a laundry list of their own stuff they're submitting and working on. The hope is that the vendor who handled the submission will push the designer and GMK to get it right. I have to imagine most designers and 3rd party vendors would get frustrated with 5 other regional vendors constantly telling them what they want, especially if those regional vendors don't agree with each other. Then what?

And the reason sales aren't spread across multiple vendors in the same region is logistics. It'd be a nightmare and costly to not bulk ship sets to a final destination. Not to mention the moq needed for production might be so small at some to not even be worth the time. Plus it's another product launch to handle, for every keyset instead of every 4th or 5th as vendors are rotated around now.

I think in that case Best Buy wouldn't be responsible other than taking your buggy phone and sending it to Samsung, but I am not sure if that analogy exactly applies here. First of all, I think only Drop provides refunds for gb keysets if you are not happy with them, and even they require the keyset to be unopened. For GMK keycaps I feel like it is more in the lines that Best Buy(Vendor) works with some product designer(keycap designer) to design a phone(gmk set), with the plans to order that design from Samsung(GMK) after getting money from customers. Then IKEA(another vendor) says that they want to sell it in the EU with their profit of course. In that case, I would expect IKEA managers to occasionally check in on what is going on with their new Samsung phone design. Not because they have a say on the final decision necessarily, but firstly to be able to update their customers properly and secondly if there is a very wrong decision like this, they can be aware of it early on, try to convince Best Buy to change their decision, or again inform the customers about the change with potential solutions. And you can't expect the customer in EU to try to reach Best Buy, Samsun or the designer to complain. Similarly, you don't complain to Qualcomm if Samsung's CPU breaks. So, I think your analogy would be fine if GMK was hiring designers, producing keycaps and then sending them to vendors for them to sell with their profit.

Since we(people in geekhack) are passionate about this hobby and interested in the production side of the things as well, we know about who is the lead vendor, what color matching process is, who produces the keycaps etc. But in reality, a customer who buys a product doesn't need to know about these.

I understand other vendors also having their stuff to work on, but my whole point is that this is also something should be in their lists to work on. Again, this is just my view due to there not being a clear definition on who does what. If there is some unspoken agreement between vendors to make it so that all responsibility lies on the lead vendor, then it is fine, but maybe should be mentioned more clearly to the customers. For example, in this case I wasn't even aware that ilumkb is the lead vendor until now. As I mentioned in the example above, I don't expect all the vendors to create a council and discuss decisions. But, as a customer and enjoyer of this hobby, we get curious about color matching process and ask about how it is going etc. Don't you think it is common sense for a vendor who took bunch of money from people to follow up on what is going on with it as well if the lead vendor hasn't already provided that info?

Also, I understand the challenges with having multiple vendors, not expecting it to happen any time soon if ever, but doesn't change the fact that it would benefit customers.

[Kokaloo]

Dunno if this makes sense. If Samsung ships buggy phones, is Best Buy responsible for the phones being buggy? No. Best Buy will take returns and refund money, or the users can decide to wait for an update.

This is the exact same case here. Vendors not involved in the GB submission really have no say in the color matching process. They've already taken orders and submitted them. If customers don't like the final product they can return it for a refund, but it's not the 4th party vendors' responsibility to hold hands for the process. Most have a laundry list of their own stuff they're submitting and working on. The hope is that the vendor who handled the submission will push the designer and GMK to get it right. I have to imagine most designers and 3rd party vendors would get frustrated with 5 other regional vendors constantly telling them what they want, especially if those regional vendors don't agree with each other. Then what?

And the reason sales aren't spread across multiple vendors in the same region is logistics. It'd be a nightmare and costly to not bulk ship sets to a final destination. Not to mention the moq needed for production might be so small at some to not even be worth the time. Plus it's another product launch to handle, for every keyset instead of every 4th or 5th as vendors are rotated around now.

Aren't/weren't you affiliated with Cannonkeys?