Author Topic: [IC] GMK Gladiator : GB starts April 15th! $129 Base kit with 13 new molds  (Read 62425 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dededecline

  • Posts: 469
  • Location: Seattle, WA
    • Linktree
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 13:35:28 »

All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.

Show Image


NOW GO CRY ME A RIVER

new copypasta just dropped

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 13:51:16 »
Can we keep to a discussion instead of throwing mud around !!!

EDIT : When I mentioned "Welcome to the Arena" I never thought we would actually see such a scenario.

I request everyone to keep calm and please behave. Thanks
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 December 2021, 13:53:29 by SxM Designs »

Offline paperassgasket

  • Posts: 469
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #52 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 14:25:22 »
Y'all stop telling OP to put 40's in base. I don't need an excuse to even consider this set.

Alice B in base with no minibars or numpad 0 to offer support (and forcing spacebars kit purchase), while eschewing 40's is kinda funny though.

The IC is posted to get feedback on these situations. Custom colored base with extra molds cant have everything. If you feel everything is forced here, I am sorry. I am trying to make the kitting as flexible as possible at the lowest price.
Funnily enough, I have never used 40s but have never shyed away from supporting them. My other 2 kits had seperate child kits while epbt inkdrop has full 40s modifiers support. I am not trying to avoid or deliberately screw anyone here.

Not accusing you of trying to screw anyone, I just thought it was an oversight including second B for Alice support with no 2u to cover the other spacebar. But you're saying it is a deliberate choice to force the purchase of either spacebars or numpad?

Now, saying you "never shyed away from supporting 40's" while also saying at the top of your IC that you won't add any form of 40's support is kind of at odds don't you think? I mean, I'm glad to see you backpeddling on it after some discussion, but it's still a pretty bold statement to make right up front.

Anywho, it appears that your primary objective here is to get custom molds made while selling as many base kits as possible. In that regard I wish you luck, but your biggest hurdle isn't going to be a adding a couple dollars to your base kit price. It's going to be GMK's long lead times. Adding new molds and 4 custom colors is going to obviously be the biggest contributing factor to not only cost, but time to produce this set.

Offline LaserCrafter

  • Posts: 169
  • Location: lmao
  • reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 14:39:14 »
watch this base kit be $150
Keyboard Collection: Unikorn, Orion v2.5, Orion v3, Realforce 87u, Viper v3, NMB RT8756CGR, Unicorn x Legend, Das II, TC-V3, Jetfire, Wang 325-3770, Lightpad v2

Keyset Collection: OG Doubleshots, CRP 2551 R4, Muted 2, Cyan R1, WoB, DCS Wyse, ISO OG POM, ePBT Blanks, BSP Blanks, BoW + Gigachild

Offline Fraaaan

  • Posts: 370
  • Location: cucked (EU)
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 14:41:03 »
2 number rows in base but no numpad, no accented ISO enter, no Alice support and no 40s support. Numpad kit is also lacking r1 '=' an r4 '00' if you want to keep it separated for some reason.

For a base with new molds, having everything is not a possibility. I have added the accented enters and alice bars in other kits.
Regarding numpad : As I mentioned in my other comment adding = and 00 is not a problem if it is that necessary. This is what an IC is for.

Having everything (a numpad and 4 extra keycaps) is not a possibility but there's 2 numrows in the base kit? Do you realise how dumb that sounds?

Offline LaserCrafter

  • Posts: 169
  • Location: lmao
  • reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 14:45:39 »
Hi, does this keyset support this board?
Keyboard Collection: Unikorn, Orion v2.5, Orion v3, Realforce 87u, Viper v3, NMB RT8756CGR, Unicorn x Legend, Das II, TC-V3, Jetfire, Wang 325-3770, Lightpad v2

Keyset Collection: OG Doubleshots, CRP 2551 R4, Muted 2, Cyan R1, WoB, DCS Wyse, ISO OG POM, ePBT Blanks, BSP Blanks, BoW + Gigachild

Offline ManiacMarc

  • Posts: 46
  • Location: California
    • Twitch
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 15:08:23 »
Gimme plzzz.


Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 15:44:58 »
Hi, does this keyset support this board?

Probably its already covered!  :p
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 December 2021, 15:57:09 by SxM Designs »

Offline nvh2092

  • Posts: 585
  • Location: Private luxury toilet
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 15:48:53 »
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 December 2021, 15:57:07 by nvh2092 »

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 15:50:15 »
Changed the wording in the kitting section. Sadly I am not good with words. Paperassgasket was nice enough to reach out and basically explained why the words there, might have given the wrong impression on my stance. And I do agree.

I also added an option to vote for this in the IC form. This will give more concrete results!

So everyone, be polite and fill up the IC if you like the set and want some changes. I would give it a few weeks to see if any changes are at all necessary :)

Cheers!
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 December 2021, 17:46:57 by SxM Designs »

Offline Mecxs

  • Posts: 201
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 17:18:47 »

Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.

DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.

Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).

All I see here is you circumventing through my comments and logic and seeking a narrative that fits your ideas.

1. I repeatedly stated the point was to make sure 90-95% of the buyers dont pay for a support they dont need in a complicated custom colored GMK set. Notice : the highlighted part. I dont care about DSS/ epbt/KAT and other child kit friendly manu statistics. Stick to the manu of this set. Show me some stats which adhere to your ideas and contradict mine.

Sigh. Let me try to explain this simply.

1. You said that "over 95%" of people won't benefit from 3-key 40% support, and based that on sales percentages of 40s kits in your prior GMK runs.

2. I said "that extrapolation is wrong, because you can't assume that 100% of 40s users bought a 40s kit, because it was massively overpriced".

3. Then I said "look at these other sets that ran, where the percentage of buyers who bought 40s support is higher. That shows that the percentage of 40s users in the community is not, as you claimed, <5%."

4. At no point did I say "look, you should do ePBT kitting for your GMK 40s set", which is what you seem to have heard. This is purely about determination of what percentage of base kit buyers would potentially use 3-key support.

You are misinterpreting your data and falsely assuming that the percentage of users who want 40s support is equal to the percentage who bought 40s kits, which is flat out wrong.

Because you are then using that wrong conclusion to justify omitting basic 40s in base, I decided to explain to you why you are wrong in your interpretation of the data.

Offline NovaRMK

  • Posts: 318
  • Location: Your mom's house
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 17:58:31 »
GMK Blue Samurai Gladiator

Offline NovaRMK

  • Posts: 318
  • Location: Your mom's house
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 18:12:19 »
Show Image


aw jeez if only there was some solution to getting basic 40s compatibility without having to worry about another child kit hitting moq
maybe the community can come up with something in the future, but for now the technology just isn't there yet

40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

you can't fool me zambuman

Man kokaloo is NOT having it today 😭

get this man some 40s support ffs

Offline Magnificent Bureaucrat

  • Posts: 102
  • Sooooo much red tape
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 18:27:54 »
At least the subtitle to this thread is appropriate :thumb:

Offline geohammy

  • Posts: 63
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 19:16:30 »
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

you can't fool me zambuman

All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.

NOW GO CRY ME A RIVER

Unagi, Bias, Dolphin, XTAL

Join the YVKB Discord:
https://discord.gg/pCjDYqup6r

Offline HappyB0T

  • Posts: 435
  • Location: Midwest, USA
  • I'm a Piggie
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 23:07:32 »
The set looks good - I like set.
The forced novelty number row is throwing me off. I tend to pick up 40 coverage if it is offered but daily drive 60-65s. I wouldn't expect the novelty numerals to be in the base but I get why someone who designed the set would make this choice. As a non-designer - I personally think having the numberpad + 3 key support in the base kit make more sense. Nerds who like the design of the novelties will buy it anyway. Annnnnnnd I think your numerals look great.

Your current kitting choice will be polarizing. I assume that throwing down a vanilla base kit would most likely translate to a better MOQ.
Forced novelties make more sense to me the way nephlock does it. Subtle.
You have a good design but I will be an easy pass if the base set is too pricy.
If you could get this set to GB at $135 you would need a pretty substantial moq.
Good luck Dood -


Offline paulgali

  • Posts: 251
  • Location: Dubai, UAE
    • SKME
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 23:42:38 »
I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...

But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people

And 3 deskmats. THREE

I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base :)

Offline scoopbb

  • Posts: 271
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 23:44:43 »
when there was 1 gmk set running a month i really hated sets not having 40s kits. now there are so many damn sets running in colors that are basically a remix of the designers previous sets with a new gimmick its like who gives a ****, there are 5 other sets running at the same time.

Offline kahlilnc

  • Posts: 58
  • Location: Tex-Ass
    • KNC Keys LLC
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 08 December 2021, 00:16:11 »
I dig it. I know you don't need another person to tell you the set is similar to Blue Samurai but I absolutely love the artisans.

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 08 December 2021, 02:11:53 »
At least the subtitle to this thread is appropriate :thumb:

Too appropriate for my liking  :p

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 08 December 2021, 02:24:28 »
The set looks good - I like set.
The forced novelty number row is throwing me off. I tend to pick up 40 coverage if it is offered but daily drive 60-65s. I wouldn't expect the novelty numerals to be in the base but I get why someone who designed the set would make this choice. As a non-designer - I personally think having the numberpad + 3 key support in the base kit make more sense. Nerds who like the design of the novelties will buy it anyway. Annnnnnnd I think your numerals look great.

Your current kitting choice will be polarizing. I assume that throwing down a vanilla base kit would most likely translate to a better MOQ.
Forced novelties make more sense to me the way nephlock does it. Subtle.
You have a good design but I will be an easy pass if the base set is too pricy.
If you could get this set to GB at $135 you would need a pretty substantial moq.
Good luck Dood -

Thanks for the nice feedback.

The current kitting offers flexibility and does not force novelties F rows (which I never wanted anyways).
Whether I push numerals in the base or have another kit, people would complain either ways.
However, I know that adding the numerals to the base is the easiest and least expensive way to add them to the kit. A separate child kit would just cost too much to even consider doing these. ($115-120 base + $40+45 numerals kit --> $160+)
Hence the choice.

For adding the 40s 3 Key support : I have added an option for people to vote in the IC. Its fair and would give me more idea about what people really want.

From all my previous sets, my goal was always to add something new for the community for the lowest price possible. At the end of the day, I know what matters most is the final GB price with a good kitting.
There is no way I am going through if the base kit price is ridiculous. I wont design or offer something, that I (when I am consumer) wont buy. $135 is also the hard limit that I have for this. Hopefully GMK would be kind enough!

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 08 December 2021, 02:40:26 »
I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...

But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people

And 3 deskmats. THREE

I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base :)

I will try to explain in more depth here.

The set was created months ago. The set went through some internal rounds of checking and validation. I officially published the IC about 3 weeks or 1 month ago  in various platforms and started receiving feedback.
The idea was to have a more polished set before submitting to Geekhack.
During all that time I had literally a couple of people asking me for 40s support in base.
I did not consider that GH would host more 40s voices than other platforms and it was never my intention to piss of a section of the community that I have supported and will keep supporting in the future!

The logical action was to add a section in the IC form where people can vote. I would check this in a few weeks and finalize my decision.


Please read my last comment on the numrow novs. If I want to include it anywhere, the least expensive option is the base kit. With a separate kit it would just be more expensive.. Then another set of people will come here and complain about being forced to buy too many kits.


Offline paulgali

  • Posts: 251
  • Location: Dubai, UAE
    • SKME
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 08 December 2021, 02:49:17 »
I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...

But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people

And 3 deskmats. THREE

I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base :)

I will try to explain in more depth here.

The set was created months ago. The set went through some internal rounds of checking and validation. I officially published the IC about 3 weeks or 1 month ago  in various platforms and started receiving feedback.
The idea was to have a more polished set before submitting to Geekhack.
During all that time I had literally a couple of people asking me for 40s support in base.
I did not consider that GH would host more 40s voices than other platforms and it was never my intention to piss of a section of the community that I have supported and will keep supporting in the future!

The logical action was to add a section in the IC form where people can vote. I would check this in a few weeks and finalize my decision.


Please read my last comment on the numrow novs. If I want to include it anywhere, the least expensive option is the base kit. With a separate kit it would just be more expensive.. Then another set of people will come here and complain about being forced to buy too many kits.
Generally speaking the 40s community will very often shout if it’s missing entirely. Bud, I want you to succeed, I hope you didn’t see my criticism as harsh, but nonetheless still criticism.

I entirely understand why you did the kitting like this. If it was up to me, I’d put the 3/4 basic keys required into the space kit, since you’ve committed to the vision with the alt numrow. At least you included it in base so we can see the vision (unlike cough red alert cough)

People always complain. Hey, me too, I’m able to admit that. Still, best of luck. I too hope GMK are nice to you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 08 December 2021, 02:59:45 »
I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...

But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people

And 3 deskmats. THREE

I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base :)

I will try to explain in more depth here.

The set was created months ago. The set went through some internal rounds of checking and validation. I officially published the IC about 3 weeks or 1 month ago  in various platforms and started receiving feedback.
The idea was to have a more polished set before submitting to Geekhack.
During all that time I had literally a couple of people asking me for 40s support in base.
I did not consider that GH would host more 40s voices than other platforms and it was never my intention to piss of a section of the community that I have supported and will keep supporting in the future!

The logical action was to add a section in the IC form where people can vote. I would check this in a few weeks and finalize my decision.


Please read my last comment on the numrow novs. If I want to include it anywhere, the least expensive option is the base kit. With a separate kit it would just be more expensive.. Then another set of people will come here and complain about being forced to buy too many kits.
Generally speaking the 40s community will very often shout if it’s missing entirely. Bud, I want you to succeed, I hope you didn’t see my criticism as harsh, but nonetheless still criticism.

I entirely understand why you did the kitting like this. If it was up to me, I’d put the 3/4 basic keys required into the space kit, since you’ve committed to the vision with the alt numrow. At least you included it in base so we can see the vision (unlike cough red alert cough)

People always complain. Hey, me too, I’m able to admit that. Still, best of luck. I too hope GMK are nice to you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Constructive criticism has always helped me to grow in life. So I don't really mind people criticizing.  I would always try to explain my point and vision and at the same time listen to feedback to check if I missed something. This is what I have always done.
So no worries!!

Again, thanks a lot for the feedback!! I appreciate it a lot!

Offline goodyvee

  • Posts: 1
  • Location: New York
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 08 December 2021, 16:54:17 »
real simple guy i see what i like and i buy it

cant wait

Offline kiwoli

  • Posts: 44
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 08 December 2021, 18:13:51 »
As a numpad user, it just feels bad to pay extra for a kit that should be in base while there is a duplicate numrow.
I'm unsure of the argument for GMK sets to separate the numpad, the pricing just ends up being horrendous, so it becomes an easy decision to not buy into these sets.

Offline Lil Pai

  • Posts: 10
  • Location: Norway
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 08 December 2021, 19:43:46 »
This is absolutely gorgeous. The addition of an international kit is such a chef's kiss. The literal only thing I would change is to include the numpad in the base kit.

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 09 December 2021, 11:04:50 »
real simple guy i see what i like and i buy it

cant wait

Really glad you liked it!

As a numpad user, it just feels bad to pay extra for a kit that should be in base while there is a duplicate numrow.
I'm unsure of the argument for GMK sets to separate the numpad, the pricing just ends up being horrendous, so it becomes an easy decision to not buy into these sets.

This is absolutely gorgeous. The addition of an international kit is such a chef's kiss. The literal only thing I would change is to include the numpad in the base kit.

Thanks a lot for the feedback. A TKL base does cost numpad users more in total but saves a lot of money for the ones that dont really use it.
I would not design this set without adding the numrow novelties in the base (the least expensive option to add a full row of novs).
A Full base would definitely be at a price point ( >=$150) where most people would just not consider the set .

For all my sets, the emphasis is to have the good base kit pricing. Sadly, for this set as well, numpad cannot be added to the base in order to achieve that. I hope you understand and still consider the set!

Offline kameron

  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Canada
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 09 December 2021, 12:30:03 »
some of those novelty tolerances look sketchy also add 3 key

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 09 December 2021, 14:50:45 »
some of those novelty tolerances look sketchy also add 3 key

Not the first set with crazy novelties that I have done  :p
Everything is according to GMK standards. Don't worry about it!

3 Key : IC form has an option to add the 3 key support. Please fill it up. I will access after a few weeks and decide.

Thanks!!

Offline boneandbee

  • Posts: 164
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 09 December 2021, 16:46:08 »
LOVE the novelties and desk mats! and the color combo on this is so unique without being over the top. Great job, will be watching this with much interest. GLWIC!

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 10 December 2021, 02:10:34 »
LOVE the novelties and desk mats! and the color combo on this is so unique without being over the top. Great job, will be watching this with much interest. GLWIC!

Thanks a lot!! Really glad you enjoyed this.

Offline spartaman64

  • Posts: 10
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 10 December 2021, 13:32:29 »

Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.

DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.

Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).

All I see here is you circumventing through my comments and logic and seeking a narrative that fits your ideas.

1. I repeatedly stated the point was to make sure 90-95% of the buyers dont pay for a support they dont need in a complicated custom colored GMK set. Notice : the highlighted part. I dont care about DSS/ epbt/KAT and other child kit friendly manu statistics. Stick to the manu of this set. Show me some stats which adhere to your ideas and contradict mine.

Sigh. Let me try to explain this simply.

1. You said that "over 95%" of people won't benefit from 3-key 40% support, and based that on sales percentages of 40s kits in your prior GMK runs.

2. I said "that extrapolation is wrong, because you can't assume that 100% of 40s users bought a 40s kit, because it was massively overpriced".

3. Then I said "look at these other sets that ran, where the percentage of buyers who bought 40s support is higher. That shows that the percentage of 40s users in the community is not, as you claimed, <5%."

4. At no point did I say "look, you should do ePBT kitting for your GMK 40s set", which is what you seem to have heard. This is purely about determination of what percentage of base kit buyers would potentially use 3-key support.

You are misinterpreting your data and falsely assuming that the percentage of users who want 40s support is equal to the percentage who bought 40s kits, which is flat out wrong.

Because you are then using that wrong conclusion to justify omitting basic 40s in base, I decided to explain to you why you are wrong in your interpretation of the data.

ok then as he said fill out the IC form and if enough people want 40s kit then maybe he will include it.
stop getting salty and putting words in people's mouth

Offline LittleAad

  • Posts: 241
  • Hello
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #83 on: Fri, 10 December 2021, 17:29:48 »
I dislike how there is a roman numeral num row in base kit along with the standard num row. I think it would be wise to get rid of the roman numeral one and add a numpad to the base kit.

Novelties are very nice. Best of luck with IC and GB!

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 11 December 2021, 01:56:36 »
I dislike how there is a roman numeral num row in base kit along with the standard num row. I think it would be wise to get rid of the roman numeral one and add a numpad to the base kit.

Novelties are very nice. Best of luck with IC and GB!

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you like the novelties!!

I have already explained my reasoning with respect to the roman numerals and this particular kitting. Please read my other comments.

Cheers!

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 11 December 2021, 02:00:00 »
FYI : There were already a ton of feedback before I introduced the vote for 40s 3 key.
To make it fair, I allowed editing of responses in the IC form. So if you have filled the IC form before I introduced the 40s vote option, please edit your response.
I will be also making this announcement in other platforms and my server.

Offline stevenT

  • Posts: 104
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #86 on: Sat, 11 December 2021, 06:10:39 »
Nice kit, are dark background  keycaps of R1 novelties black or teal? my screen is bad so I can not distinguished

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #87 on: Sat, 11 December 2021, 06:16:58 »
Nice kit, are dark background  keycaps of R1 novelties black or teal? my screen is bad so I can not distinguished

Glad you liked the set!!

The novelties are black :)

Offline Mr Chrome

  • Posts: 211
  • Location: Australia
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #88 on: Sat, 11 December 2021, 08:05:55 »
Novelties are very classy. IMO that and the teal-ish colour justify getting this over Samurai, but comparison is valid.

Have you tried mucking around with Sanctuary Rebirth style roman numerals? Not sure if it would work with GMK tolerances (and it's probably more polarizing than what you've got lol) but keeping symbols and left alignment might cut down on the need for two numrows in base... maybe... possibly?

“This plastic rectangle is alright. The plastic rectangles on top of it, though...”

Offline Sainity

  • Posts: 25
  • Location: Germany
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #89 on: Sat, 11 December 2021, 11:34:19 »
I very much like what Mr Chrome has proposed here! The smaller roman numerals appear much less overbearing and fit in with the other characters of the set much better.

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #90 on: Sun, 12 December 2021, 14:25:37 »

Have you tried mucking around with Sanctuary Rebirth style roman numerals? Not sure if it would work with GMK tolerances (and it's probably more polarizing than what you've got lol) but keeping symbols and left alignment might cut down on the need for two numrows in base... maybe... possibly?

Show Image


Thanks for the nice feedback! I am glad you like the set!

To answer you question : Yes I have tried going with that as well but sadly it did not fit my vision of the set.
Apart from that there are some other issues as well.
For example :
a. It would force the numrow to be roman numerals which some people might not like.
b. There would be no flexibility of using it as F rows.
c. Macro + kit would be  5 keys less yet more expensive with the requirement of new molds.
d. The base kit price wont be reduced by much.

I am aware that there are extra keys in the base but at the end of the day the flexibility you will have with the current kitting is much more.

I really appreciate you taking the time to share your idea in a very nice way!

Cheers!!

Offline Mr Chrome

  • Posts: 211
  • Location: Australia
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 12 December 2021, 21:21:14 »
Have you tried mucking around with Sanctuary Rebirth style roman numerals? Not sure if it would work with GMK tolerances (and it's probably more polarizing than what you've got lol) but keeping symbols and left alignment might cut down on the need for two numrows in base... maybe... possibly?

Show Image

a. It would force the numrow to be roman numerals which some people might not like.
b. There would be no flexibility of using it as F rows.
c. Macro + kit would be 5 keys less yet more expensive with the requirement of new molds.
d. The base kit price wont be reduced by much.

Ah, I see! I was mostly thinking of those who find only roman numerals too extreme, but it’s definitely true that the current kitting allows people to use those keys for F rows or macros and reduces macro kit cost.

Seems especially geared for TKL-ish users (which explains why it slipped my mind...), but I can understand some of the frustration around a lack of compatibility for any 40s use while allowing for “use what you think looks best” for others. I think keeping base kit $$$ low is important to justify buying this set with the added wait time and cost over Blue Samurai, but it’s good to hear you’re keeping all that in mind. GLWIC!
“This plastic rectangle is alright. The plastic rectangles on top of it, though...”

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 14 December 2021, 02:14:58 »
Ah, I see! I was mostly thinking of those who find only roman numerals too extreme, but it’s definitely true that the current kitting allows people to use those keys for F rows or macros and reduces macro kit cost.

Seems especially geared for TKL-ish users (which explains why it slipped my mind...), but I can understand some of the frustration around a lack of compatibility for any 40s use while allowing for “use what you think looks best” for others. I think keeping base kit $$$ low is important to justify buying this set with the added wait time and cost over Blue Samurai, but it’s good to hear you’re keeping all that in mind. GLWIC!

Glad you understand! My main goal is keeping the base kit pricing reasonable enough for people to consider it.

Offline hussar_name

  • Posts: 63
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 14 December 2021, 02:35:50 »
- I would like to say that I don't like 40% keyboards, and I say it because at least we can agree on something from the start :-D the caps that the 40's gang want cost as much as 7 1u keycaps. Not cheap.

- can you ask GMK to provide some color samples?

- does GMK have a complete list of the doubleshot legends which available? maybe we can use something original

- please consider removing the english writings (shift, enter etc) and keeping symbols only. English language plus roman symbols seems like some kind of very wrong cultural cross - contamination.

« Last Edit: Tue, 14 December 2021, 03:30:58 by hussar_name »

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 14 December 2021, 04:33:02 »
- I would like to say that I don't like 40% keyboards, and I say it because at least we can agree on something from the start :-D the caps that the 40's gang want cost as much as 7 1u keycaps. Not cheap.

- can you ask GMK to provide some color samples?

- does GMK have a complete list of the doubleshot legends which available? maybe we can use something original

- please consider removing the english writings (shift, enter etc) and keeping symbols only. English language plus roman symbols seems like some kind of very wrong cultural cross - contamination.

- I have not used a 40s keeb but it does not mean I don't like them or the community. My intention was always to make sure the base stays relatively cheap as per my vision.
  Currently its upto to the IC response for me to decide on whether to add the support or not.

- No. Thats not possible. Having an IC which transitions into a GB does not guarantee a successful one. To order samples, the GB needs to cross MOQ. It would be impossible for any company at a large scale to produce color sample for all ICs.

- No. There are no written lists. What do you mean by "something original" ?

- I have already discussed this. The numerals add a touch of the old roman culture to the set. However, the novelties set is what brings the whole set together in terms of theme. Having tried both iterations of icons mods and the current icon text mods,  I would say the current one looks much better in spite of having words not belonging to Latin.

Offline hussar_name

  • Posts: 63
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 14 December 2021, 04:44:57 »
English words on modifiers (instead of using just symbols) plus roman numbers = bleah

No color chip = bad bad bad

You'll add 40s keys because it's your last chance to appear accomodating.

I'm not joyning this.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 December 2021, 04:48:43 by hussar_name »

Offline SxM Designs

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1061
  • Location: Germany
  • https://sxmdesigns.com
    • Website
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 14 December 2021, 13:25:48 »
English words on modifiers (instead of using just symbols) plus roman numbers = bleah

No color chip = bad bad bad

You'll add 40s keys because it's your last chance to appear accomodating.

I'm not joyning this.

Sorry to disappoint you but it is what it is.

Ultimately, the designs are focused on the entire keeb community. If you feel, that I am doing anything to or will do anything to " appear accommodating" to a certain section, then you are too wrong and naďve.

Moreover, I wont be able to satisfy everyone nor will I try to. I have given enough explanations behind my actions (kitting) and at the end of the day its upto the individual person whether they will accept or reject it.
The results of the IC will surely be published to give more credibility to whatever actions I decide on.
There is no need to assume anything.

I hope that clears up any confusion that you might have. Have a nice day :)


Offline Dotnick

  • Posts: 178
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 14 December 2021, 16:05:53 »
Firstly, I think this is a really cool set that I can tell you have put many hours into and are passionate about.

From what I can tell, it seems like there is a mixture of intentions here of OP wanting to be adventurous/imaginative in kitting choices and the community feedback wanting OP to be much more practical in kitting decisions. Being innovative as a keyset designer is absolutely okay and necessary in my eyes, but not at the cost of real compatibility (something I learned the hard way as well).

Honestly, some sets can get away with being adventurous because the risks taken in weird key inclusion/theming are still functionally practical and don't undermine the exclusion of other keys (40s support, accent ISO, accent arrows in base in this set). From personal experience in designing a set that is trying to do some weird stuff, I understand why OP is protective of his inclusions and also understand the perspective on why the exclusions are not fair/practical.

I think there are two decent compromises here that would appease both sides (in order of which I think is best in the present situation):

1) Switch to PBT - From my perspective, it seems that the kitting decisions you want to take are almost better suited to decisions one would make in the context of a dye-sublimated set. While most of this would be reverse dye-sub, I think this is seriously a viable option here especially with better PBT options opening up in the last year. MilkyWay has good reverse dye-sub even though the alignment of legends is off a bit atm, but the latter can be fixed rather easily. The shift to dye-sub would also allow you to move things around more easily; main example being that you could put 3/4 key 40s support in base and move the roman numeral keys to the novelties or macros kit while keeping everything fairly affordable on all accounts. I also think that a set with this many kitting liberties could really suffer in the current GMK climate as well (not knocking the interest you are receiving or your work at all here, more just speaking on the current state of the market).

2) Stick with GMK - Put 40s into the base kit and move the roman numerals to the novelties or the macros kit. The number one goal should be to get the base kit to MOQ, and I would be worried right now about the pricing of the base kit along with the controversial decisions being made in this current GMK climate. This would dramatically reduce the cost of the base kit and possibly allow for other inclusions like accent ISO or accent arrows in the base kit. The novelties kit currently requires 20 new molds, while the macros kit requires 12 new molds (not including the redundant keys from the molds required for the roman numerals currently in base). To me, the macros kit seems the better option here for a couple reasons. First, you would be condensing all of the interest in the roman numerals into this one kit if they were all in one place. I think this is less risky for the set as a whole, as you would only jeopardize one kit making MOQ rather than the whole base kit itself. Second, you would also be condensing the use of the same molds into one kit and incentivize the macros kit to be made at the same time. This is a minor benefit but still worth noting. I think if you are worried that the roman numerals wouldn't make MOQ organically as a child kit, I'm not sure how you can have confidence that the macros kit, as is, will make MOQ. Especially given that traditional macros kit only make MOQ if the set is extremely hyped or guaranteed buyout, and that your macros kit not only features nontraditional legends that require new molds but also has extra 'novelty'-like keys (objectively). Both of these increase the cost of the kit substantially.

-- side tangent on the red accent arrows: there is a knock-on effect if roman numerals are moved out of the base kit that would favor the inclusion of red arrows in the set. The tan accent arrows can move into the base kit from the spacebars kit, which would then make room for red arrows in the spacebars kit.

I am absolutely not telling you what to do here, just taking a civil approach at trying to help and provide you with options. I hope you consider my feedback and even if you don't, GLWIC/GB.

There's probably a lot I missed, pls forgive.

Offline stevenT

  • Posts: 104
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 14 December 2021, 20:41:04 »
Firstly, I think this is a really cool set that I can tell you have put many hours into and are passionate about.

From what I can tell, it seems like there is a mixture of intentions here of OP wanting to be adventurous/imaginative in kitting choices and the community feedback wanting OP to be much more practical in kitting decisions. Being innovative as a keyset designer is absolutely okay and necessary in my eyes, but not at the cost of real compatibility (something I learned the hard way as well).

Honestly, some sets can get away with being adventurous because the risks taken in weird key inclusion/theming are still functionally practical and don't undermine the exclusion of other keys (40s support, accent ISO, accent arrows in base in this set). From personal experience in designing a set that is trying to do some weird stuff, I understand why OP is protective of his inclusions and also understand the perspective on why the exclusions are not fair/practical.

I think there are two decent compromises here that would appease both sides (in order of which I think is best in the present situation):

1) Switch to PBT - From my perspective, it seems that the kitting decisions you want to take are almost better suited to decisions one would make in the context of a dye-sublimated set. While most of this would be reverse dye-sub, I think this is seriously a viable option here especially with better PBT options opening up in the last year. MilkyWay has good reverse dye-sub even though the alignment of legends is off a bit atm, but the latter can be fixed rather easily. The shift to dye-sub would also allow you to move things around more easily; main example being that you could put 3/4 key 40s support in base and move the roman numeral keys to the novelties or macros kit while keeping everything fairly affordable on all accounts. I also think that a set with this many kitting liberties could really suffer in the current GMK climate as well (not knocking the interest you are receiving or your work at all here, more just speaking on the current state of the market).

2) Stick with GMK - Put 40s into the base kit and move the roman numerals to the novelties or the macros kit. The number one goal should be to get the base kit to MOQ, and I would be worried right now about the pricing of the base kit along with the controversial decisions being made in this current GMK climate. This would dramatically reduce the cost of the base kit and possibly allow for other inclusions like accent ISO or accent arrows in the base kit. The novelties kit currently requires 20 new molds, while the macros kit requires 12 new molds (not including the redundant keys from the molds required for the roman numerals currently in base). To me, the macros kit seems the better option here for a couple reasons. First, you would be condensing all of the interest in the roman numerals into this one kit if they were all in one place. I think this is less risky for the set as a whole, as you would only jeopardize one kit making MOQ rather than the whole base kit itself. Second, you would also be condensing the use of the same molds into one kit and incentivize the macros kit to be made at the same time. This is a minor benefit but still worth noting. I think if you are worried that the roman numerals wouldn't make MOQ organically as a child kit, I'm not sure how you can have confidence that the macros kit, as is, will make MOQ. Especially given that traditional macros kit only make MOQ if the set is extremely hyped or guaranteed buyout, and that your macros kit not only features nontraditional legends that require new molds but also has extra 'novelty'-like keys (objectively). Both of these increase the cost of the kit substantially.

-- side tangent on the red accent arrows: there is a knock-on effect if roman numerals are moved out of the base kit that would favor the inclusion of red arrows in the set. The tan accent arrows can move into the base kit from the spacebars kit, which would then make room for red arrows in the spacebars kit.

I am absolutely not telling you what to do here, just taking a civil approach at trying to help and provide you with options. I hope you consider my feedback and even if you don't, GLWIC/GB.

There's probably a lot I missed, pls forgive.

good point, I just wonder if the pbt manufacture is capable of producing the novelties, giving schedule of GMK(from what I see about 18 months) not to mention the time for color check, pbt is worth considering.

Personally I think base kit looks better with light background alphas(gray for example) and dark abs looks bad when it shines but there have been many white alpha keyset. Let's wait and see the ic result.

Offline santela

  • Posts: 227
Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #99 on: Wed, 15 December 2021, 01:50:28 »
Damn this thread got spicy. I agree the kitting isn't ideal but Jesus some people aren't raised with proper manners.