Apple Magic Mouse

[timw4mail]

If you think that's the only bad thing Intel ever did, you need to read into their product history a bit more...

Well, that's the first thing that came to mind...without mentioning the Pentium 4...

[AndrewZorn]

the 27" imac has a displayport input

yes they dont do that much innovative stuff but still novel

and no, all mice do not have the same function... even if they did, you cannot deny that this is a step BACKWARD in actual usability

[ehird]

I think the thing to say is that Apple does holistic innovation: the parts themselves aren't new (that would be reductionist innovation), but they're put together in an innovative way... and I'd contend that that's as important as the parts themselves.

As for usability, I couldn't say without using it.

[Rajagra]

I think the thing to say is that Apple does holistic innovation

You should copyright that phrase before Apple steals it and uses it in its advertising.

[AndrewZorn]

nah, they have enough of a time laughing at PeeCee users who only have a calculator and have to PAY for their software (go and order a mac, once you get to the customize step, the same $400 software appears, wait, what??)

[ehird]

You should copyright that phrase before Apple steals it and uses it in its advertising.

If their users can't handle more than one button, how on earth are they going to understand words like "holistic"?!

[Rajagra]

If their users can't handle more than one button, how on earth are they going to understand words like "holistic"?!

Tell them it's something the Pope carries.

[hyperlinked]

Apple really does rip you off when it comes to memory, though. Considering how easy it actually is to change the memory in an iMac, that seems really strange to me.

Less than they used to, but more than they need to still. I have a Mac Pro tower. They made adding RAM and hard drives to that thing so ridiculously easy that anyone who maxes out their order with lots of extra drives and maxed out memory is either an idiot or has the money to justify saving a little inconvenience.

It's not quite as easy now with the unibody laptops, but still not rocket science in most models.

[hyperlinked]

Show Image

LOL, fire escape! Clever!

[itlnstln]

Show Image

That's Hawt.

[itlnstln]

Here is the Magic Mouse taken apart:
 
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/10/magic-mouse-oh-my-godits-full-of-capacitive-sensors.ars

[D-EJ915]

I'm kind of surprised apple hasn't devised some sort of chargive base for the mouse but whatever.

[chimera15]

Anyone tried to use it on a pc?  It's bluetooth right, so it must have some functionality?  maybe the gesture thing wouldn't work cause it needs a special driver....

[justin]

Well, I spent a bunch of time with the Magic Mouse today in real life. It sucks. It really makes me wonder how this product made it through the usually rigorous user testing that Apple puts their products through. The thing is shaped like a sailboat. It's bottom is curved upwards at an awkward angle, making it nearly impossible to hold comfortably. The top is so flat that there is nothing to rest your hand on while using it, effectively forcing you to hold your hand in an awkward claw shape that is far less comfortable than any mouse I have ever used. The mighty mouse actually wasn't too bad compared to this.

And here's something everyone here is all to familiar with... they destroyed any tactility that was left in the scrolling function. Sure, it clicks great, apart from the buttons being indistinguishable from one another. But scrolling basically feels about the same as swiping your finger up and down a flat, shiny piece of glass. There isn't any texture, let alone any form of tactility in line with what you'd get from a decent scroll wheel.

Anyway, I'm sticking with my DeathAdder.

Oh, and by the way… I take back what I said in defense of the Magic Mouse earlier in this thread. I prefer to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, because they have literally changed my life with their great products. Unfortunately, their current input devices suck. Inserting foot into mouth now. :-P

[o2dazone]

My brother had a chance to spend some time with a Magic Mouse and this is what he mostly touched on.

Gestures were cool, but found himself moving the mouse when doing them. Scrolling is as seamless as having a real wheel there, but there's no significant advantage other than appearance to not have one. Left and right click are spot on. Pinching was a bit difficult on such a small area. Mouse is a little flat, due to it's multitouch functionality, found it a bit uncomfortable after some use.

[itlnstln]

My brother had a chance to spend some time with a Magic Mouse and this is what he mostly touched on.
 
Gestures were cool, but found himself moving the mouse when doing them. Scrolling is as seamless as having a real wheel there, but there's no significant advantage other than appearance to not have one. Left and right click are spot on. Pinching was a bit difficult on such a small area. Mouse is a little flat, due to it's multitouch functionality, found it a bit uncomfortable after some use.

This is what I was worried about.  I already don't like flatter mice as, to me, they put my hand in an uncomfortable position.  On the surface, it looks like a looks like a solution searching for a problem.

[timw4mail]

This is what I was worried about.  I already don't like flatter mice as, to me, they put my hand in an uncomfortable position.  On the surface, it looks like a looks like a solution searching for a problem.

Steve Jobs apparently despises buttons.

[itlnstln]

Yeah, I'm suprised they just haven't come up with some sort of mind control device yet.  I guess they are still looking for an implementation that would look pretty enough.

[Rajagra]

Yeah, I'm suprised they just haven't come up with some sort of mind control device yet.  I guess they are still looking for an implementation that would look pretty enough.

I wonder what Apple would do with the OCZ NIA. Apart from making it white, obviously.

[timw4mail]

I wonder what Apple would do with the OCZ NIA. Apart from making it white, obviously.

I'm still a little skeptical that that actually works.

[microsoft windows]

That "magic mouse" looks as ergonomic as a block of wood.

[itlnstln]

That "magic mouse" looks as ergonomic as a block of wood.

That was good.  So you're going to get around to checking one of these out in, say, 2024?

[itlnstln]

Here is a review for the Magic Mouse.  As I would have expected, it is not the most ergonomic mouse according to the reviewer, but otherwise, he found it to be OK (not revolutionary, mind you).  Check it out, and see what you think.

[Viett]

Are there really only two two-fingered gestures? Honestly, you can't tell me that that's more efficient than having a far left/right click. You also lose all of that tactility.

In all honestly, regular mouse gestures are far superior. It is much more precise to move the entire mouse to a certain pattern than it is to perform a gesture on the mousetop.

[itlnstln]

In a sense, I was really hoping there was going to be something special about this mouse. When you think about it, however, the basic design has been with us for many years (just like keyboards). I guess when you find the closest thing to a perfect design (in a basic sense) there has to be a major paradigm shift and interface change to come up with something better.
 
Really, the only truly major changes (read: additions) that have been made to modern mice vs. those of yesteryear have been the scroll wheel and optical/laser sensors.* I would also argue that only one of those, the scroll wheel, has actually changed/augmented the way we use mice.
 
*There have also been interface changes, (serial, bus, USB, PS/2, etc.) but that has more to do with computer evolution, overall, and nothing to do with mice specifically.

[microsoft windows]

I'd compare the scrolling wheel to the Windows keys on many keyboards. Both make things easier, but it's still not too hard to live without them.

[microsoft windows]

That was good.  So you're going to get around to checking one of these out in, say, 2024?

Probably a little sooner. I bet people will start throwing them out around 2015.

[microsoft windows]

I wonder what they'll make next...a mouse where the entire thing's a button?

I just like to stick with the tried and true 2-button mice. They work fine.

[timw4mail]

I wonder what they'll make next...a mouse where the entire thing's a button?

Apple Pro mouse, came right after the hockey puck mouse.

I just like to stick with the tried and true 2-button mice. They work fine.

One button mouse are actually more tried and true.

[microsoft windows]

The Pro Mice and "hockey-puck" mice are single button, but not the entire top is a button.

About scroll wheels--I don't mind them. I am just used to scrolling on the keyboard instead.

[timw4mail]

The Pro Mice and "hockey-puck" mice are single button, but not the entire top is a button.

About scroll wheels--I don't mind them. I am just used to scrolling on the keyboard instead.

The entire pro mouse is a button.

[ak_nala]

The entire pro mouse is a button.

Yep!

Well, except for those little half-moon areas on the sides to put your fingers for moving it around without clicking.  

Except for the scroll button, the Mighty Mouse was essentially one clean, unbroken surface as well, despite having two-button functionality.

[microsoft windows]

I guess I got confused there. I thought the Pro mice came on the Power Mac G3's. But I guess I was wrong. They're the ones that came on Blueberry I-Mac's and e-Mac's right?

[itlnstln]

They used to be called the Mighty Mouse, IIRC.

[microsoft windows]

I don't recall these being called Mighty Mouse.

I remember using them when the 450Mhz I-Mac's were new!

[itlnstln]

My bad, I thought you were talking about a different one.

[timw4mail]

One of these days I'm going to get one of those old ibooks...

[microsoft windows]

I used them. They were terrible.

[PRISONER 24601]

Looks kinda neat. innovative with lots of room to improve.

Like one of those ideas that gets improved with time + user input

too bad apple will just replace it with something completely different as soon as the hipster kids deem it "uncool"... or "cool"... whatever ironic criticism they're using these days.

[Rajagra]

as the hipster kids deem it "uncool"... or "cool"... whatever ironic criticism they're using these days.

Strong? Bad?
StrongBad?
More StrongBad.

[The General]

a magic mouse came with my computer, and let me tell you - its absolutely terrible. i'll outline everything i hate about it here:

1. bluetooth mouse = lag. im talking over 200ms of lag. this alone makes it unusable.
2. the laser is too far forward. i don't know if anybody else does this, but for very minute motion, i don't actually move the whole mouse around, and basically pivet the back of the mouse around the front middle of the mouse. since the laser on the magic mouse is too far forward, i end up pivetting it around the laser and thus not moving the mouse cursor at all.
3. i cant right and left click at the same time. this is still a problem, and has always been the problem with every mouse apple has ever made.
4. the scrolling is some sort of inertial scrolling like the iphone has, which makes scrolling through weapons in games absolutely impossible and makes scrolling through lists that dont scroll smoothly (like the genre/artist/album lists in itunes) impossible to do.
5. it claims to have right click, but it's really "lift your pointer finger click" so instead of just applying pressure with your middle finger, you have to: a. lift your pointer finger, b. apply pressure with your middle finger, c. set your pointer finger back down. this gets very tiring after just ten or so minutes of work.

of course, i don't know what i was expecting out of the mouse. i cant say im disappointed, i knew it was going to be terrible based on this god aweful keyboard they gave me too. i dont even need to post what i hate about that thing.

i ended up picking up a razer mamba and couldnt be happier.

[itlnstln]

That pretty much confirms what I thought this mouse would be.  Oh, the things people do for beauty.
 
 
I can't wait for the Mad Catz mice to come out.

[hyperlinked]

I had a bunch of problems with this mouse too, but not the same ones you had.

2. the laser is too far forward.

You must be a fingertip/claw hand like me. I had the same problem. It works fine when I'm using a palm grip.

4. the scrolling is some sort of inertial scrolling like the iphone has, which makes scrolling through weapons in games absolutely impossible and makes scrolling through lists that dont scroll smoothly (like the genre/artist/album lists in itunes) impossible to do.

I don't think this was supposed to be a gaming mouse. I actually found the scrolling to be very slick and even though I can't use the mouse as a regular mouse, I use it as a touchpad to sweep my window views around when I'm working with large database tables that won't fit on a monitor.

5. it claims to have right click, but it's really "lift your pointer finger click" so instead of just applying pressure with your middle finger, you have to: a. lift your pointer finger, b. apply pressure with your middle finger, c. set your pointer finger back down. this gets very tiring after just ten or so minutes of work.

There may already be third-party mods that address this. The Apple laptops don't have this problem. You can put a second finger down to right click just fine.

of course, i don't know what i was expecting out of the mouse. i cant say im disappointed, i knew it was going to be terrible based on this god aweful keyboard they gave me too. i dont even need to post what i hate about that thing.

No doubt about it. The keyboard sucks, but the mouse is pretty cool for specialized purposes. It's not right for me, but I like the idea.

i ended up picking up a razer mamba and couldnt be happier.

I went and got a Razer Imperator... it has a few flaws too, but I like it a lot better than the Magic Mouse for my usual tasks.

[microsoft windows]

I like my trusty Microsoft mice much better than anything from Crapple.

[piyokos]

a magic mouse came with my computer, and let me tell you - its absolutely terrible. i'll outline everything i hate about it here:

1. bluetooth mouse = lag. im talking over 200ms of lag. this alone makes it unusable.
2. the laser is too far forward. i don't know if anybody else does this, but for very minute motion, i don't actually move the whole mouse around, and basically pivet the back of the mouse around the front middle of the mouse. since the laser on the magic mouse is too far forward, i end up pivetting it around the laser and thus not moving the mouse cursor at all.
3. i cant right and left click at the same time. this is still a problem, and has always been the problem with every mouse apple has ever made.
4. the scrolling is some sort of inertial scrolling like the iphone has, which makes scrolling through weapons in games absolutely impossible and makes scrolling through lists that dont scroll smoothly (like the genre/artist/album lists in itunes) impossible to do.
5. it claims to have right click, but it's really "lift your pointer finger click" so instead of just applying pressure with your middle finger, you have to: a. lift your pointer finger, b. apply pressure with your middle finger, c. set your pointer finger back down. this gets very tiring after just ten or so minutes of work.

of course, i don't know what i was expecting out of the mouse. i cant say im disappointed, i knew it was going to be terrible based on this god aweful keyboard they gave me too. i dont even need to post what i hate about that thing.

i ended up picking up a razer mamba and couldnt be happier.

i think you are talking about the 'mighty mouse' which is the previous generation. i pulled a wired one off a new imac in 2006 and used it for a few years, although i dont know why i persisted that long.

first problem, scroll ball on top stops working after a couple days. this is because the insides get dirty really fast and start slipping. id have to 'clean' it by running it over a damp cloth every day and it still had issues. i dont have dirty hands and i dont eat at my computer or whatever.

the side buttons went crazy so i had to disable them in software.

middle click requires pressing the entire mouse down which is retarded

right click requires lifting your left finger which is also stupid.

i'm cheap so i switched to an ancient dexxa optical which is still 100x better then the mighty mouse...

[ch_123]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Magic Mouse - the laser being too far forward, for example, is a common complaint about the Magic Mouse.

I had been interested in trying the Mighty Mouse, as on paper, they looked like a really good idea. Tried one out and it was pretty mediocre. I'd like to find a cheap one so I could render hacks on it.

[EverythingIBM]

I don't like gestures-- they tend to come in two forms:

1)  So large as to be identifiable, and then why not just a keystroke?  I'm thinking of the game Black and White.

2)  Refined, but requiring very tight control, and so unsuitable for precision work (if I want the photo resized to 380x116, I don't want to worry about a tiny movement giving me 381x116 instead.

That's a very good observation. Sometimes I need pixel-by-pixel accuracy; I use a mechanical mouse for this becuase rolling the ball in smaller increments is a lot easier, I find optical sometimes "jerky", which, a mechanical ball eliminates. Call me crazy, but mechanical mice are still very good. CRTs are great for classic gaming when you need major resolution changes and don't want any stretching artefacts.

Gestures on top of the mouse make sense. I predict this will replace the wheel.

Next thing will be touchpad keyboards.

In the long run the question will be if the new functions justify loss of haptics. I don't think so.

No. Nothing will ever replace the basic mouse or keyboard. People who do ZERO technical work with graphics and precision seem to garner this misconception. Would I paint intricate art with my finger instead of a paintbrush? Of course not! Sometimes your fingers' energy has to be converted into higher accuracy with the use of tools. I can see WACOM pads being used more in the future; but you're exerting force from your fingers to a pen to a pad. Not using your finger directly.

And as for keyboards; there are already a lot of flat "touch" ones. They are terrible; it's difficult to orient your fingers. Furthermore, I like pressing crisp TALL keys.

Saying keyboards and mice will become replaced is like saying square monitors will become circle.

[hyperlinked]

I use a mechanical mouse for this becuase rolling the ball in smaller increments is a lot easier, I find optical sometimes "jerky", which, a mechanical ball eliminates.

A decent optical on a proper surface should handle small increments just fine though it does take getting used to when you're really used to a mechanical mouse. Even after I had made the conversion to an optical mouse, I used to use a mechanical mouse for gaming because of the tactile feedback you could get from the ball moving. Eventually, I wasn't any different whether I used the mechanical mouse or the optical though I do admit that I miss the tactile feedback of the mechanical mouse... I don't miss all the gunk that builds up on the rollers and causes the mouse to go off track though so that's why I've stuck with optical... especially since I don't game anymore.

[EverythingIBM]

A decent optical on a proper surface should handle small increments just fine though it does take getting used to when you're really used to a mechanical mouse. Even after I had made the conversion to an optical mouse, I used to use a mechanical mouse for gaming because of the tactile feedback you could get from the ball moving. Eventually, I wasn't any different whether I used the mechanical mouse or the optical though I do admit that I miss the tactile feedback of the mechanical mouse... I don't miss all the gunk that builds up on the rollers and causes the mouse to go off track though so that's why I've stuck with optical... especially since I don't game anymore.

Ironically, I find optical better for gaming.

I keep my mechanical ball mice clean, I never get gunk in them (other people always complain, but I've never had a problem of buildup of stuff in the ball tracks before).

My optical mouse moves VERY fast (second fastest speed in windows), so, using a mechanical mouse helps allow me to "roll" it slower on such a high cursor speed. One could say why don't I just turn down the speed? Well, I like moving fast, but also precise when I need to. I can still perform fine with optical/laser; I just think mechanical is more precise, because, it takes time for the ball to roll and register, opposed to an optical instantly responding (so you can't delay the cursor from spiking).