Author Topic: JTK Toxic  (Read 74042 times)

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Offline TelFiRE

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 21:38:07 »
That's ridiculous. MD is the one that completely ignores due dates, lets them go right by, ignores your emails, does absolutely nothing to rectify issues with their terrible QA, etc. MD is just a terrible company all around. If you are fine with the way MD handles things, then there is ***no*** way you should be upset at OCO. Their public communication leaves much to be desired but they easily have way more frequent updates than any of the last 5 buys I've been in on MD, and at least they will respond right away when I email them, unlike assdrop.
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Offline nightdriver

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 08 December 2017, 19:57:50 »
i just join group buys with the expectation of "i'll get it when i get it".

much less stressful that way.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 08 December 2017, 21:11:07 »
i just join group buys with the expectation of "i'll get it when i get it".

much less stressful that way.

pretty much
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Offline nathanchere

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #53 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 11:09:53 »
In the past few weeks, I tried reaching out to them via email, this GH forum, and their blog comment system. Only after I mailed in requests for cancellation of my close to $1000 worth pending orders with them did I get a response explaining the delays. The response and update was all I needed, and I think it's what everyone else who participated in those group buys need as well.

Contrary to the other posts above, I think you're 100% right. It's a business, it hasn't delivered, and makes no real effort to keep buyers in the loop. I could forgive any combination of these things but 3 strikes = out.

Offline totallycaked

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 12:08:08 »
I'm blown away by the lack of transparency and communication that seems to be perfectly acceptable for group buys. As complacent buyers, those of us with a "I'll get it when I get it" mentality enable GB organizers to continue half-assing customer service.

If I buy a 5 dollar bag of popcorn on amazon, I'll get packing and shipping confirmations all throughout its journey to my door, and I can check at any moment and see the last place that my bag of popcorn was, with an accurate estimate on its shipping time.

I'm not saying we should be getting our package within the specified time frame, delays happen, its fine. I just can't fathom why there aren't consistent updates for the packages. If something happens during shipping to delay the package, there should be an update almost immediately... What am I missing?

Offline Puddsy

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 12:36:41 »
ignore this post
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



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Offline totallycaked

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #56 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 12:40:42 »
What I'm saying is this shipment is likely extremely expensive, yet little to no tracking is available. I'm not sure if that's even sherry's fault.

Quote
sherry is a dude with a side business

That's not a good excuse. If he didn't want to take on the responsibility of keeping track of packages and updating customers then he shouldn't be running a buy lol

KBDIST.com has 4 updates per month with the exception of the last week of november and now the first two weeks of december, just give us something.... what is happening?
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 December 2017, 12:49:04 by totallycaked »

Offline TerryMathews

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #57 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 13:12:15 »
Not to throw napalm on the flame, but I e-mailed Oco and received this reply Thursday:

Quote
Thanks for following up and we're terribly sorry for this delay. There's been a delay during the sorting process due to a family emergency on JTK's end. Now that it's ready to ship, we've encountered some issue with the shipping process. We're working to resolve that asap. It should be on the way to us in the coming weeks. Sorry for the inconvenience. Please let me know if you have further questions.

Thanks,
Wendy

To me, that reads differently than the update we were provided before - I read this as it's still not shipped.

Offline totallycaked

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #58 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 13:47:45 »
I suspected nothing has actually shipped yet, looks like I may have been correct. I brought this up in the GB thread that Bunny is running and got absolutely bombarded with hate and eventually threatened by a moderator (lol).

I don't understand why the people in charge of this GB aren't clear about the status of the product. Don't sugar coat it and tell me that "it's shipping" to try and ease the tension - I want to know what is actually happening; did it fall off the boat? Every update tries to make it sound like the sets are packed and currently in transit to their destination, but this couldn't possibly be true. It wouldn't be taking this long.

If you want to run group buys like a business and create a client base to keep doing these sorts of things, you need to take some initiative and get the details about the status of the shipment and update your customers accordingly.

Like I said, I don't care about how long it's going to take, just be straight with us.

Offline BunnyLake

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #59 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 14:29:35 »
I suspected nothing has actually shipped yet, looks like I may have been correct. I brought this up in the GB thread that Bunny is running and got absolutely bombarded with hate and eventually threatened by a moderator (lol).

I don't understand why the people in charge of this GB aren't clear about the status of the product. Don't sugar coat it and tell me that "it's shipping" to try and ease the tension - I want to know what is actually happening; did it fall off the boat? Every update tries to make it sound like the sets are packed and currently in transit to their destination, but this couldn't possibly be true. It wouldn't be taking this long.

If you want to run group buys like a business and create a client base to keep doing these sorts of things, you need to take some initiative and get the details about the status of the shipment and update your customers accordingly.

Like I said, I don't care about how long it's going to take, just be straight with us.

i have just messaged sherry, i said i was going to about a week ago but ive spent the last week in and out of the emergency room with my little one and it slipped my mind, once he replies i will ask him if he is ok with me updating this thread on his behalf, so i can put to rest the above the comments, and be a point of contact between you guys and JTK
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Offline nightdriver

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #60 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 15:54:00 »
I'm blown away by the lack of transparency and communication that seems to be perfectly acceptable for group buys. As complacent buyers, those of us with a "I'll get it when I get it" mentality enable GB organizers to continue half-assing customer service.

If I buy a 5 dollar bag of popcorn on amazon, I'll get packing and shipping confirmations all throughout its journey to my door, and I can check at any moment and see the last place that my bag of popcorn was, with an accurate estimate on its shipping time.

I'm not saying we should be getting our package within the specified time frame, delays happen, its fine. I just can't fathom why there aren't consistent updates for the packages. If something happens during shipping to delay the package, there should be an update almost immediately... What am I missing?

the 5 dollar bag of popcorn you buy on amazon already exists.  it's not something where a request to create it will be made days or weeks after you pay for it.  totally different scenario.

Offline TerryMathews

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 18:03:28 »
I'm blown away by the lack of transparency and communication that seems to be perfectly acceptable for group buys. As complacent buyers, those of us with a "I'll get it when I get it" mentality enable GB organizers to continue half-assing customer service.

If I buy a 5 dollar bag of popcorn on amazon, I'll get packing and shipping confirmations all throughout its journey to my door, and I can check at any moment and see the last place that my bag of popcorn was, with an accurate estimate on its shipping time.

I'm not saying we should be getting our package within the specified time frame, delays happen, its fine. I just can't fathom why there aren't consistent updates for the packages. If something happens during shipping to delay the package, there should be an update almost immediately... What am I missing?

the 5 dollar bag of popcorn you buy on amazon already exists.  it's not something where a request to create it will be made days or weeks after you pay for it.  totally different scenario.

However, in this scenario I believe everyone has acknowledged that the manufacturing phase is complete. So not really all that different at this point.

Offline regionfree

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #62 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 18:32:52 »
I managed to get my refund for this set a few days ago.

Offline TelFiRE

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #63 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 19:57:56 »
People here seem to be acting like this is a situation where they let the ship date come and go without any updates. And I understand thinking that, I thought that as well, just because I'm used to updates for GBs being here on GeekHack. But The fact is, OCO has been giving updates for Toxic regularly over at http://www.kbdist.com/updates -- there hasn't been a lack of transparency, just a lack of presence on GeekHack, and an oversight that has now been remedied of not updating the ship date on the buy page.

As for concerns with them not responding to emails, I find that very odd, because they responded to mine within hours.

However, in this scenario I believe everyone has acknowledged that the manufacturing phase is complete. So not really all that different at this point.

Shipping and sorting is still a thing though. OCO doesn't even have the sets yet. There's nothing they can do.
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 December 2017, 19:59:55 by TelFiRE »
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Offline totallycaked

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #64 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 20:10:26 »
People here seem to be acting like this is a situation where they let the ship date come and go without any updates. And I understand thinking that, I thought that as well, just because I'm used to updates for GBs being here on GeekHack. But The fact is, OCO has been giving updates for Toxic regularly over at http://www.kbdist.com/updates -- there hasn't been a lack of transparency, just a lack of presence on GeekHack, and an oversight that has now been remedied of not updating the ship date on the buy page.

As for concerns with them not responding to emails, I find that very odd, because they responded to mine within hours.

However, in this scenario I believe everyone has acknowledged that the manufacturing phase is complete. So not really all that different at this point.

Shipping and sorting is still a thing though. OCO doesn't even have the sets yet. There's nothing they can do.

Maybe I'm looking too far into things...
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 December 2017, 22:21:59 by totallycaked »

Offline TerryMathews

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 10 December 2017, 23:21:05 »
However, in this scenario I believe everyone has acknowledged that the manufacturing phase is complete. So not really all that different at this point.

Shipping and sorting is still a thing though. OCO doesn't even have the sets yet. There's nothing they can do.

On 11/22, Oco said in their kbdist update that "they should be here around 2 weeks." We are two days short of 3 weeks, and it appears that they haven't shipped yet.

I don't understand some of you. They are at 150% of their shipping estimate and they (apparently) haven't shipped yet. On a set that was supposed to be shipped to customers on 9/8.

Let's not even talk about Keyboard & Co. This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. There have been a number of buys that have ridden off the rails, and there's nothing wrong with people trying to figure out if this is another one or not.

Offline nathanchere

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 11 December 2017, 00:24:27 »
i have just messaged sherry, i said i was going to about a week ago but ive spent the last week in and out of the emergency room with my little one and it slipped my mind, once he replies i will ask him if he is ok with me updating this thread on his behalf, so i can put to rest the above the comments, and be a point of contact between you guys and JTK
The same BunnyLake who told us all to get out of the other JTK Toxic thread because the two group buys have nothing to do with each other?  :)) :)) :)) Why do you do this to yourself  :D

People here seem to be acting like this is a situation where they let the ship date come and go without any updates. And I understand thinking that, I thought that as well, just because I'm used to updates for GBs being here on GeekHack. But The fact is, OCO has been giving updates for Toxic regularly over at http://www.kbdist.com/updates

You shouldn't have go to hunting for these things. I didn't even know they were posting updates there until someone mentioned it on geekhack about the delays. I got no email or anything, the product page wasn't updated at all (including STILL taking orders for this group buy months after it was supposed to be delivered which is what pisses me off the most), no updates on their vendor forum on Geekhack, my emails were ignored (until I lodged a Paypal refund request and then got a reply within the same day) and when I logged into check my order status there was no update or explanation there. How many different points of contact are we supposed to be checking for? No, the fact is their communication sucks.

there hasn't been a lack of transparency, just a lack of presence on GeekHack, and an oversight that has now been remedied of not updating the ship date on the buy page.

No, there has been a lack of honesty with communication. The point where I finally bailed was the first update:

"TOXIC is about done, and they are ready to ship. We will send out news as soon as they ship to us :)"

No, it's either done and ready to ship or it's not. It can't be "about done" and "ready to ship" at the same time. I'm all too familiar with weasel words and this was the point where I finally decided to pull out of the buy. Delays are one thing, dishonesty is not. **** happens, just give it to us straight. And surprise surprise (not), more than 6 weeks later (and more than 3 months after they were supposed to ship to us) we are still waiting for them to even ship to OCO let alone to customers.

Shipping and sorting is still a thing though. OCO doesn't even have the sets yet. There's nothing they can do.
Yes, there is. They can communicate better and more honestly.

I was only following still out of sheer curiosity to see how much longer this ends up taking but the general attitude of "hey it's a group buy it comes when it comes (if it comes)" and attacking anyone who dares expect to get what was advertised and what they paid for is a large part of the reason so many half-arsed group buys keep happening - because you keep letting people get away with it. And not just people doing it as a hobby or 'for the community' but doing it as a business. Anyway since I'm not even part of the buy any more I'm gonna leave it at that. </rant>
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 December 2017, 00:39:42 by nathanchere »

Offline HotRoderX

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 11 December 2017, 01:12:13 »
I wanted to point out this is more of that Toxic BS I talked about on Massdrop x Glimy DSA 2077 Custom Keycap Set.

This community its shocking it has lasted as long as it has. I mean originative is a company run by a couple of dudes part time from what i can tell. Its not there main source of income. They do it as a side income. While I understand they are a business. They are not amazon, Walmart, massdrop, are any other mega sized company that 1,000 of employee's.

The updates are sparse but then again. I think most group buys are least the ones I have seen are pretty much the same way. There not dropping updates ever 10mins are ever few hours.. are even day's typically they drop them when they have them. I understand o whelp they missed the deadline.. ya they did that's totally true but.. hmm you know what November had Thanksgiving and black Friday. Those are both semi busy holiday's for American's. I am sure the same goes for the staff of Originative. Perhaps they took time off with there family's.

Then when they got back cause they had a black Friday sale. They where busy filling those orders. Didn't have time to update the website with.. There on a boat some where in the ocean. Cause I would assume that much product would have to be shipped via boat. Once it did hit America it have to be unloaded from the boat which could take sometime then hit customs. Assuming that all the tracking was 100% accurate. Which lets be honest how often is postage tracking accurate. Then we take into account US customs. Which is government and doesn't work holiday's. That add's even more time that the package could potentially be out of the loop.

To top it off least there active part of the community and you can communicate with them thought email. I honestly wonder how much longer the community will last with such a bs toxic attitude toward's anything they find unfavorable. Special people who made there point.. 10 way's to Sunday and back again. We get your upset we get you don't think there communicating properly. Great.. you said your piece we don't need it shoved rammed and feed to us every time the wind blows. This case the squeaky wheel is accomplishing nothing because things can only move so fast.

What the squeaky wheel is doing is turning off future group buy coordinators. Who in there right mind would want to deal with this crap? I read people having to sell there cars cause things have gone south in a group buy. Look at bunnylake I don't know the entire story but from what peace together. He got pretty much screwed by someone and left with a co ran group buy that feel apart. There other horror stories out there.

Then on the other side of the coin there are people who might want to join a group buy. Remember MOQ have to be meet... that decides otherwise cause of fervious whining in a thread like this. Once again totally understand being upset but... its not really that far off the estimated time of arrival and it is a group buy. There a factor of it could take longer then planned special around the holiday's. I always factor in extra 3 months. Are until paypal protection is about to go out. Then I most likely ask for a refund and buy back in. Otherwise I would just split. I don't think Orginative would leave everyone hanging Though.. there always contacting them directly.

Anyone that wants to call me out are what have you saying I am wrong I don't understand blah blah. I be blunt and upfront. Don't care. The community can be down right toxic and this is another example of that in my opinion.

Offline TerryMathews

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 11 December 2017, 01:21:08 »
According to Wendy, they're not on that boat yet... Nice straw man though.

Offline regionfree

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 11 December 2017, 01:50:07 »
I wanted to point out this is more of that Toxic BS I talked about on Massdrop x Glimy DSA 2077 Custom Keycap Set.

This community its shocking it has lasted as long as it has. I mean originative is a company run by a couple of dudes part time from what i can tell. Its not there main source of income. They do it as a side income. While I understand they are a business. They are not amazon, Walmart, massdrop, are any other mega sized company that 1,000 of employee's.

The updates are sparse but then again. I think most group buys are least the ones I have seen are pretty much the same way. There not dropping updates ever 10mins are ever few hours.. are even day's typically they drop them when they have them. I understand o whelp they missed the deadline.. ya they did that's totally true but.. hmm you know what November had Thanksgiving and black Friday. Those are both semi busy holiday's for American's. I am sure the same goes for the staff of Originative. Perhaps they took time off with there family's.

Then when they got back cause they had a black Friday sale. They where busy filling those orders. Didn't have time to update the website with.. There on a boat some where in the ocean. Cause I would assume that much product would have to be shipped via boat. Once it did hit America it have to be unloaded from the boat which could take sometime then hit customs. Assuming that all the tracking was 100% accurate. Which lets be honest how often is postage tracking accurate. Then we take into account US customs. Which is government and doesn't work holiday's. That add's even more time that the package could potentially be out of the loop.

To top it off least there active part of the community and you can communicate with them thought email. I honestly wonder how much longer the community will last with such a bs toxic attitude toward's anything they find unfavorable. Special people who made there point.. 10 way's to Sunday and back again. We get your upset we get you don't think there communicating properly. Great.. you said your piece we don't need it shoved rammed and feed to us every time the wind blows. This case the squeaky wheel is accomplishing nothing because things can only move so fast.

What the squeaky wheel is doing is turning off future group buy coordinators. Who in there right mind would want to deal with this crap? I read people having to sell there cars cause things have gone south in a group buy. Look at bunnylake I don't know the entire story but from what peace together. He got pretty much screwed by someone and left with a co ran group buy that feel apart. There other horror stories out there.

Then on the other side of the coin there are people who might want to join a group buy. Remember MOQ have to be meet... that decides otherwise cause of fervious whining in a thread like this. Once again totally understand being upset but... its not really that far off the estimated time of arrival and it is a group buy. There a factor of it could take longer then planned special around the holiday's. I always factor in extra 3 months. Are until paypal protection is about to go out. Then I most likely ask for a refund and buy back in. Otherwise I would just split. I don't think Orginative would leave everyone hanging Though.. there always contacting them directly.

Anyone that wants to call me out are what have you saying I am wrong I don't understand blah blah. I be blunt and upfront. Don't care. The community can be down right toxic and this is another example of that in my opinion.

They are a legal business entity, though. Whether they run Oco part-time or not, they are liable to fulfill transactions. These are legal obligations. The keyboard enthusiast community is already forgiving as it is, willing to endure delays and let scratched up products slide even after paying hundreds of bucks.

I think all everyone is asking for is better communication. I've seen many businesses like these. When fulfillment stalls due to issues in the supply chain, they eventually just stay quiet hoping things would go away till things get better. It's the worst mistake they could make, and always the top thing they point out during their retrospective.
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 December 2017, 01:52:38 by regionfree »

Offline totallycaked

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #70 on: Mon, 11 December 2017, 02:01:24 »
I disagree that this hurts the community, I think it strengthens it and makes it more reliable and approachable by a wider audience. This is a substantial amount of work and other peoples money for it to be purely a hobby for GB organizers. Holding them more accountable for customer service and communication not only makes it more comfortable to participate in a group buy for all of us who are already part of the community, but will have a much more significant affect on potential new faces who might be skeptical because of all the negative feedback about sketchy practices, non-communication, and sometimes even non-shipment of certain group buys. There are things that should not be acceptable if we want to grow as a community and have more reliable and enjoyable group buy experiences.

« Last Edit: Mon, 11 December 2017, 02:26:30 by totallycaked »

Offline nathanchere

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #71 on: Mon, 11 December 2017, 04:00:16 »
Here is another group buy I am involved in which has had significant delays but I have no problem waiting for:

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/october-update-fast-good-or-cheap-pick-two/

Also one person running it, and at a much larger scale than a keycap order. Clear, open and honest communication. Keeping us in the loop isn't hard.

Offline sherryton

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #72 on: Mon, 11 December 2017, 13:39:18 »
I'm really sorry about the lack of updates regarding this set. This set hasn't been shipped yet although the product has been finished production. They are all package and ready to go. We just need one more step before they are shipped to us.

We are always willing to give refunds if this is taking too long for you. Just please let us know if you prefer that.

The delay is due to another chinese issue that we are trying to solve, and it's just taking a little bit of time right now. I know I promised this set in August, but it just may take another few weeks or less. I'll update you guys as soon as the products start shipping to us.

Offline BunnyLake

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 11 December 2017, 14:04:02 »
I'm really sorry about the lack of updates regarding this set. This set hasn't been shipped yet although the product has been finished production. They are all packed and ready to go. We just need one more step before they are shipped to us.

We are always willing to give refunds if this is taking too long for you. Just please let us know if you prefer that.

The delay is due to another Chinese issue that we are trying to solve, and it's just taking a little bit of time right now. I know I promised this set in August, but it just may take another few weeks or less. I'll update you guys as soon as the products start shipping to us.

I just spoke with sherry and will hop in to clarify a couple of things  regarding the issue, how sherry has been dealing with it and how things are moving forward

First of all id like to say it wasn't my place to update this buy or sherrys customers despite me having insight in to it, it wasn't that i was withholding info it just wasn't my info to give, however I am aware of the ins and outs as I act as a point of contact often between JTK and other vendors

I want to confirm sherry is indeed correct, the keys are manufactured and sorted, and more so than that, they are packaged and ready to go to him and have been for several weeks, they have been ready to go out of the door for some time now and it was as good as done at one point which was when sherry updated to say it was happening, which is why some updates have been ambiguous because this has been on the cusp of being with the shipping agent several times at this point

Whilst transparency is always key, I believe sherry not explaining the situation is not about withholding information from you guys, but was simply trying to be professional in handling a business relationship with a manufacturer and not wishing to discuss financial matters that were not his to discuss

This seems like a group buy to you guys, really its more of a presale in the sense sherry ordered a large number of sets, and began to sell them during the manufacturing stage, the current hold up is regarding the arrangement made about payment, the details of which were half the payment upfront, the other half upon completion of the sets but prior to them being shipped, this payment sherry has now made twice, since they were ready, however, due to circumstances as to how people can receive money in china, these payments have had to be reversed both times and we are now in the middle of a more costly but completely issue free third try at the payment

What I can say is behind the scenes sherry has been very proactive and accommodating throughout this entire process, and I'm sure these details not being conveyed were merely out of respect and professionalism on sherrys part towards the other people involved, sherry has at no point been the bottleneck in these sets being shipped to himself

I will be happy to update here or answer any questions moving forward on sherrys behalf until the shipment reaches sherry
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 December 2017, 14:17:52 by BunnyLake »
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Offline chuckdee

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 11 December 2017, 16:29:16 »
Thanks for both of those updates.

Offline ghostjuggernaut

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #75 on: Mon, 11 December 2017, 18:41:43 »
Just a friendly reminder to everyone, please keep things civil within the thread.  We have all been involved in gb's that have been delayed, and some of us ones that never arrived.  We understand the frustration.  I trust that this gb will be fulfilled as soon as humanly possible, toxic has a history on gh...  But please keep discussion on topic and respectful.

 :thumb:

Offline nightdriver

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #76 on: Tue, 12 December 2017, 18:22:48 »
I was only following still out of sheer curiosity to see how much longer this ends up taking but the general attitude of "hey it's a group buy it comes when it comes (if it comes)" and attacking anyone who dares expect to get what was advertised and what they paid for is a large part of the reason so many half-arsed group buys keep happening - because you keep letting people get away with it. And not just people doing it as a hobby or 'for the community' but doing it as a business. Anyway since I'm not even part of the buy any more I'm gonna leave it at that. </rant>

and, for many of us, we'd rather see those group buys keep coming than the alternative of fewer group buys.

Offline Vigrith

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #77 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 12:45:05 »
They are a legal business entity, though. Whether they run Oco part-time or not, they are liable to fulfill transactions. These are legal obligations. The keyboard enthusiast community is already forgiving as it is, willing to endure delays and let scratched up products slide even after paying hundreds of bucks.

Not to dig this further but this is THE main thing people don't understand regarding these "amateurs" and "part timers" - especially actual businesses like Originative, Keyclack, etc - they take it upon themselves to run these buys and deal within the community, if they can't deliver and do right by their CUSTOMERS (regardless of whether or not they are professionals) then they should not run anything. Period.

It may not be their main job but if they cannot keep the customers happy and dedicate enough time to the project to ensure everything goes as smoothly as it can then either a. do not run it or b. find someone who can.

PS: this has nothing to do with Originative and this specific case, I just mean in general.

Offline chuckdee

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #78 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 16:01:58 »
They are a legal business entity, though. Whether they run Oco part-time or not, they are liable to fulfill transactions. These are legal obligations. The keyboard enthusiast community is already forgiving as it is, willing to endure delays and let scratched up products slide even after paying hundreds of bucks.

Not to dig this further but this is THE main thing people don't understand regarding these "amateurs" and "part timers" - especially actual businesses like Originative, Keyclack, etc - they take it upon themselves to run these buys and deal within the community, if they can't deliver and do right by their CUSTOMERS (regardless of whether or not they are professionals) then they should not run anything. Period.

It may not be their main job but if they cannot keep the customers happy and dedicate enough time to the project to ensure everything goes as smoothly as it can then either a. do not run it or b. find someone who can.

PS: this has nothing to do with Originative and this specific case, I just mean in general.

Many of the 'customers' are quite Toxic (see what I did there?) and entitled, and no matter what updates they send, it will not be enough.  There's a middle ground, especially when dealing with third parties that they cannot control.  These delays on this particular group buy are an example of this; the delay is on JTK, not Originative (I know that you said it wasn't specifically about Originative, but it is a good example).

Offline regionfree

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #79 on: Sun, 17 December 2017, 18:48:58 »
They are a legal business entity, though. Whether they run Oco part-time or not, they are liable to fulfill transactions. These are legal obligations. The keyboard enthusiast community is already forgiving as it is, willing to endure delays and let scratched up products slide even after paying hundreds of bucks.

Not to dig this further but this is THE main thing people don't understand regarding these "amateurs" and "part timers" - especially actual businesses like Originative, Keyclack, etc - they take it upon themselves to run these buys and deal within the community, if they can't deliver and do right by their CUSTOMERS (regardless of whether or not they are professionals) then they should not run anything. Period.

It may not be their main job but if they cannot keep the customers happy and dedicate enough time to the project to ensure everything goes as smoothly as it can then either a. do not run it or b. find someone who can.

PS: this has nothing to do with Originative and this specific case, I just mean in general.

Many of the 'customers' are quite Toxic (see what I did there?) and entitled, and no matter what updates they send, it will not be enough.  There's a middle ground, especially when dealing with third parties that they cannot control.  These delays on this particular group buy are an example of this; the delay is on JTK, not Originative (I know that you said it wasn't specifically about Originative, but it is a good example).

You are making this sound like what they’re doing is public service and not commerce. That the paying customers should be grateful and suck it up through the delays and damaged products.

The things they have to do as a business entity are things they decided they would do in exchange for profits. Oco, or any other business entity, are accountable for their (paid for) business commitments. In this case, all that was being asked for were updates.

Offline chuckdee

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #80 on: Sun, 17 December 2017, 20:19:29 »

You are making this sound like what they’re doing is public service and not commerce. That the paying customers should be grateful and suck it up through the delays and damaged products.

The things they have to do as a business entity are things they decided they would do in exchange for profits. Oco, or any other business entity, are accountable for their (paid for) business commitments. In this case, all that was being asked for were updates.

And they had posted updates.  It just wasn't here.  The last post on their site said it would be a couple of weeks, and that was at the end of November.  I think both Sherry and Bunny's post also clear up a bit about what was going on- they didn't want to ruin a relationship with a vendor, and were trying to work it out behind the scenes.  I never inferred they were doing a service, just that there were things beyond their control.

Offline totallycaked

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 18 December 2017, 19:27:29 »
We got the update we wanted. A clear and honest description of what was happening. It's pretty obvious that every update up until this one was grossly inaccurate and thus why most people were upset (it doesn't matter where the update was posted, they were all stringing us along). There's nothing else that needs to be said.

Offline Ouster

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 19 December 2017, 08:16:47 »
We got the update we wanted. A clear and honest description of what was happening. It's pretty obvious that every update up until this one was grossly inaccurate and thus why most people were upset (it doesn't matter where the update was posted, they were all stringing us along). There's nothing else that needs to be said.
I don't think it's fair to say they were stringing us along. I think they updated with the information they had and believed at the time. There would be no point in lying intentionally knowing they would miss a deadline...

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Offline chuckdee

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #83 on: Tue, 19 December 2017, 09:13:54 »
We got the update we wanted. A clear and honest description of what was happening. It's pretty obvious that every update up until this one was grossly inaccurate and thus why most people were upset (it doesn't matter where the update was posted, they were all stringing us along). There's nothing else that needs to be said.
I don't think it's fair to say they were stringing us along. I think they updated with the information they had and believed at the time. There would be no point in lying intentionally knowing they would miss a deadline...

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This.

Offline nathanchere

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 19 December 2017, 16:19:00 »
I don't think it's fair to say they were stringing us along. I think they updated with the information they had and believed at the time. There would be no point in lying intentionally knowing they would miss a deadline...

Still taking orders for Toxic on the site after group buy supposedly closed in June and delivery is 3 months late...

Offline chuckdee

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #85 on: Tue, 19 December 2017, 17:19:50 »
I don't think it's fair to say they were stringing us along. I think they updated with the information they had and believed at the time. There would be no point in lying intentionally knowing they would miss a deadline...

Still taking orders for Toxic on the site after group buy supposedly closed in June and delivery is 3 months late...

What is your point?

Offline regionfree

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 19 December 2017, 23:34:35 »
I don't think it's fair to say they were stringing us along. I think they updated with the information they had and believed at the time. There would be no point in lying intentionally knowing they would miss a deadline...

Still taking orders for Toxic on the site after group buy supposedly closed in June and delivery is 3 months late...

it could be because they ordered extras, and also to cover the expected cancellations in GBs (normally happens). nothing fishy about that.

Offline energyd

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #87 on: Wed, 20 December 2017, 11:03:52 »
I don't think it's fair to say they were stringing us along. I think they updated with the information they had and believed at the time. There would be no point in lying intentionally knowing they would miss a deadline...

Still taking orders for Toxic on the site after group buy supposedly closed in June and delivery is 3 months late...

Right, there is extra. I ordered a set two weeks ago.

it could be because they ordered extras, and also to cover the expected cancellations in GBs (normally happens). nothing fishy about that.

Offline regionfree

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #88 on: Wed, 20 December 2017, 12:01:55 »
I don't think it's fair to say they were stringing us along. I think they updated with the information they had and believed at the time. There would be no point in lying intentionally knowing they would miss a deadline...

Still taking orders for Toxic on the site after group buy supposedly closed in June and delivery is 3 months late...

it could be because they ordered extras, and also to cover the expected cancellations in GBs (normally happens). nothing fishy about that.

Right, there is extra. I ordered a set two weeks ago.

What I mean is that they are already expecting the sets that would arrive to be more than the actual pending orders, after cancellations, and/or they also ordered extra sets. To make it even easier to understand, during order placement of the group buy, they got orders for 100, so they placed 100 orders. But after delays and cancellations, pending orders went down to 85, so they now have 15 extras, and they can take orders for that. I hope that makes it very easy to understand.

Offline BunnyLake

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #89 on: Wed, 20 December 2017, 13:19:46 »
just wanted to pop my head in and say the payment has officially cleared to jtk and the last hold up is over, these will now be leaving jtk and heading to originative headquarters
I'M IN THE PROCESS OF MOVING RIGHT NOW, WILL BE BACK AROUND SOON

Offline BunnyLake

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #90 on: Wed, 27 December 2017, 14:47:26 »
the sets for originative have now left jtk and are with the shipping agent, and originative will have tracking in the next 48 hours
I'M IN THE PROCESS OF MOVING RIGHT NOW, WILL BE BACK AROUND SOON

Offline Asbrodeus

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #91 on: Thu, 28 December 2017, 06:28:14 »
the sets for originative have now left jtk and are with the shipping agent, and originative will have tracking in the next 48 hours

thank you bunny for updating this thread as well.

Offline gr4v3m4n

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 22:29:52 »
i’ve emailed contact@originative.co about adding orders there have been no reply for almost a week.


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Offline chuckdee

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 23 January 2018, 09:59:18 »
From the mailing list:

Quote
Hi all,

Hope you're doing well! Thank you for your patience with this group buy! Just wanted to do a quick update letting you know that the Toxic sets have arrived today and we're preparing for shipment shortly. Before we do, we'd like to offer you the option to add JTK Sliders to your order at a discounted price and no extra shipping costs.

We have the sliders in both the Toxic green color as well as purple. If you want to add the sliders to your order, simply checkout with the links below and we will combine it with your Toxic order (if you want to purchase both, you'll have to checkout separately):

Toxic Sliders
Purple Sliders

Also, if there are any changes to your shipping address, please let us know asap so we can make changes. We will be fulfilling orders starting tomorrow/Wednesday at the latest, so if you want to add the sliders (and have trouble checking out) or want to make changes to your order, please let us know as soon as possible.

Thanks again,

Originative

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 23 January 2018, 18:38:26 »
From the mailing list:

Quote
Hi all,

Hope you're doing well! Thank you for your patience with this group buy! Just wanted to do a quick update letting you know that the Toxic sets have arrived today and we're preparing for shipment shortly. Before we do, we'd like to offer you the option to add JTK Sliders to your order at a discounted price and no extra shipping costs.

We have the sliders in both the Toxic green color as well as purple. If you want to add the sliders to your order, simply checkout with the links below and we will combine it with your Toxic order (if you want to purchase both, you'll have to checkout separately):

Toxic Sliders
Purple Sliders

Also, if there are any changes to your shipping address, please let us know asap so we can make changes. We will be fulfilling orders starting tomorrow/Wednesday at the latest, so if you want to add the sliders (and have trouble checking out) or want to make changes to your order, please let us know as soon as possible.

Thanks again,

Originative

Yes, I was quite happy to see that email also today, thanks for posting for those who might have missed it though. Kinda bummed the peace offering is only useful for Topre users, but I got in the buy very late so I really can't complain.
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 January 2018, 18:40:08 by Rob27shred »

Offline chuckdee

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 23 January 2018, 19:54:04 »

Yes, I was quite happy to see that email also today, thanks for posting for those who might have missed it though. Kinda bummed the peace offering is only useful for Topre users, but I got in the buy very late so I really can't complain.

That didn't seem a peace offering to me (nor do I think that one is required), but more an opportunity to make the purchase.

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 23 January 2018, 22:16:42 »

Yes, I was quite happy to see that email also today, thanks for posting for those who might have missed it though. Kinda bummed the peace offering is only useful for Topre users, but I got in the buy very late so I really can't complain.

That didn't seem a peace offering to me (nor do I think that one is required), but more an opportunity to make the purchase.

I guess my joke missed the mark, I was more poking fun at the situation than being serious. The peace offering statement was in jest since this GB ended up having a pretty significant delay. To be clear I do not feel like Originative owes us participants anything either, as most us understand the nature & risks of GBs. In fact i find it pretty commendable they are offering a discount to make up for something that was out of their control.

Offline gr4v3m4n

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #97 on: Wed, 24 January 2018, 16:41:51 »
cool, my orders are on their way...toxic is coming


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Offline Rob27shred

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #98 on: Wed, 24 January 2018, 16:47:15 »
cool, my orders are on their way...toxic is coming


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I haven't received any shipping notifications yet myself but I am psyched just to know they will be in our hands soon also! I built a RS68 specifically for this set, can't wait to get them on it! :thumb:

Offline chuckdee

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Re: JTK Toxic
« Reply #99 on: Wed, 24 January 2018, 18:43:32 »
cool, my orders are on their way...toxic is coming


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Received my shipping notification too!