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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: dinojaemin on Fri, 12 January 2018, 00:08:41
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These days I am immersed in designing keycaps with kle. However I don't know which tool to use to render my designs. Does anyone know some tools to render keycaps? All I know is KLE and KLE-render(seems to down soon). Some thing like attached ones. Allow me to render some of my designs PLZ
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I think your first example is an example render straight from GMK. The lower one could be anyone doing 3D rendering for a set.
I think most people here use Blender for renders. Not sure though.
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I know a few use KeyShot (https://www.keyshot.com) and their renders are very realistic, although a license for it costs a small fortune (https://buy.keyshot.com/).
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Blender Cycles or Luxrender.
Both FLOSS, both amazing.
Luxrender is kinda slowish on the dev recently, but I was getting production ready stuff out of it while Cycles was still in beta, with full Blender integration. That was some 2012-ish I think. Maybe they ran out of features to implement or sth.
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It's not just the tools, it's the models as well.
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Anyone with the skills to drive a 3D program like Blender or 3DS MAX or Maya can make their own models, texture them, light them, and render them. But not many folks have those skills. The other 99.9% of prospective designers face a very steep learning curve.
I seem to recall someone here proposing a website that would except k-l-e specs and produce a CGI render using cloud rendering or somesuch. I don't know if anything came of that though.
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[...] But not many folks have those skills. The other 99.9% of prospective designers face a very steep learning curve.
Implies wrong casuality IMHO. People don't do stuff because they have the skill. They have skill because they do the stuff - long enough to stop failing at it.
That website proposal sounds north of $90K + $5K-$50K monthly upkeep, depending on how fast you want the rendering to happen.
Just learn the software. The sooner you start, the sooner you'll be productive. If you need tutorials, youtube has you covered.
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I'm pretty sure GMK uses KeyShot, but I'm not sure.
I use Solidworks for modelling and KeyShot for rendering. If you're worried about costs, etc check out Fusion 360. It's fully-free for hobbyists.
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People don't do stuff because they have the skill. They have skill because they do the stuff - long enough to stop failing at it.
Well, before someone can use a skill, they have to acquire it first. Learning to use 3D software to model, texture, light, and render something to look photorealistic is not easy, especially without expert guidance.
I'm assuming that the OP isn't looking to spend weeks or months learning and perfecting the craft of photorealistic 3D content creation until they stop failing at it, just to make some keyboard/keycap renders. They are probably looking for a mostly-automated solution, like keyboard-layout-editor but with photorealistic rendered output as an option.
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I'm assuming that the OP [...]
Did you just assume OP's needs? :eek:
I have a different opinion. You can get decent renders in 1-2 days by following video tutorials. Learning is not easy, but it is fast. Fast and painful. Steep learning curve gets you exactly that.
Regardless, getting a tool like you describe is quite possible. Not a web service, but you could get it via addon for Blender (or 3dsmax, or maya, or modo, or whatever, but Blender is free, has built in renderer, and is not much different in the end). You just need to automate some tasks normally performed by the user, and there are some export prerequisites if you want to be able to have legends for example (proper UV unwrap of elements, and types as a texture. Also, you could export other data this way, like roughness, glossiness, color, etc).
You could have the keys pre-made as models in Blender, so your design tool just exports an OBJ full of empty objects with origins in the right place (or cubes, kittens, candies or whatever), and the script/addon populates this file with assets from a pre-made library, say, based on the item names. Item names in Blender can pass data with them (like legends, font type, placement on key, etc).
Scene is set up automatically, all you have to do is position the camera. Blender can do that with first person shooter viewport navigation. You just WASD into position and hit F12, Cycles magic happens.
Blender uses Python for scripting. You'd either need someone with Python 3 knowledge and enough time, or ask around BlenderArtists forums. Commissioning addons like that is habitual, and many of them are bundled with Blender as a result. Stuff like this should cost around $200-300 to develop I think, unless a fellow MK freak appears or sth.
If you think it could be an important tool that many people need, and would like my help, please start a new thread checking for interest with above info, and PM me the link. If there is sufficient interest (say 10+ people), I'll whip up a tech description for something like that, and assist with finding a dev if it's necessary.
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My understanding of the OP's needs comes from his original post. :rolleyes:
I guess we can agree to disagree on what it takes to go from zero to photorealistic renders of keycaps, especially for someone who has no prior experience with 3D DCC applications or the skills it takes to use them for this purpose. Luckily, there isn't any rigging or animating involved, but that still doesn't make what he wants to do easy by any stretch. Not unless he gets lots of help from others, including pre-made models and texturing setups (so he can edit the legend graphics easily).
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@zslane,
Does your reply mean you're passing up on the offer I made in my post?
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I'm not the OP; I think he's the one who needs to respond to your offer. (I make my own renders using Houdini.)
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Anyone with the skills to drive a 3D program like Blender or 3DS MAX or Maya can make their own models, texture them, light them, and render them. But not many folks have those skills. The other 99.9% of prospective designers face a very steep learning curve.
I seem to recall someone here proposing a website that would except k-l-e specs and produce a CGI render using cloud rendering or somesuch. I don't know if anything came of that though.
I created kbrenders.com (https://kbrenders.herokuapp.com/) last year, and it does use blender on cloud servers to generate renders from a limited number of k-l-e layout templates. I took it down a while ago because I couldn't afford to run it for free, but it is now back online and can produce photorealistic renders within 24 hours, at $10 a render. I don't intend on profiting much from the site, but I do think it can be very useful for keycap set designers because creating renders can be a lot of work that is relatively orthogonal to the actual task of designing a successful keycap set.
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I’m new to the keycaps scene but i work in games as a character artist, so i spend a lot of time in ZBrush and Maya. I’m also dirt poor as a result, so I’m going to try my hand designing some colourways and sculpting artisans, then I’ll render in Redshift or Renderman and, you know, pretend they’re real. Till i can afford sweet SAs for the boy inside me who’s first typing was on a C64.
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Till i can afford sweet SAs for the boy inside me who’s first typing was on a C64.
Be sure to save your pennies for the new round of SA Retro, supposedly coming in the summer direct from www.pimpmykeyboard.com.
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Be sure to save your pennies for the new round of SA Retro, supposedly coming in the summer direct from www.pimpmykeyboard.com.
Thanks ZSlane, super kind!
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I'm assuming that the OP [...]
Did you just assume OP's needs? :eek:
I have a different opinion. You can get decent renders in 1-2 days by following video tutorials. Learning is not easy, but it is fast. Fast and painful. Steep learning curve gets you exactly that.
Regardless, getting a tool like you describe is quite possible. Not a web service, but you could get it via addon for Blender (or 3dsmax, or maya, or modo, or whatever, but Blender is free, has built in renderer, and is not much different in the end). You just need to automate some tasks normally performed by the user, and there are some export prerequisites if you want to be able to have legends for example (proper UV unwrap of elements, and types as a texture. Also, you could export other data this way, like roughness, glossiness, color, etc).
You could have the keys pre-made as models in Blender, so your design tool just exports an OBJ full of empty objects with origins in the right place (or cubes, kittens, candies or whatever), and the script/addon populates this file with assets from a pre-made library, say, based on the item names. Item names in Blender can pass data with them (like legends, font type, placement on key, etc).
Scene is set up automatically, all you have to do is position the camera. Blender can do that with first person shooter viewport navigation. You just WASD into position and hit F12, Cycles magic happens.
Blender uses Python for scripting. You'd either need someone with Python 3 knowledge and enough time, or ask around BlenderArtists forums. Commissioning addons like that is habitual, and many of them are bundled with Blender as a result. Stuff like this should cost around $200-300 to develop I think, unless a fellow MK freak appears or sth.
If you think it could be an important tool that many people need, and would like my help, please start a new thread checking for interest with above info, and PM me the link. If there is sufficient interest (say 10+ people), I'll whip up a tech description for something like that, and assist with finding a dev if it's necessary.
@sinusoid Has anyone started such a thread? I'm new to the mech scene, but this sounds like just the kind of project I'd enjoy taking on, even directing if necessary. I've a mixed history with CAD, consumer goods, and now work as a Front-End dev focusing on UX. I'd also be a prime example of a candidate who could benefit from such as tool, since I don't want to go through the learning curve of yet another CAD program, learning its implementation of material,lighting,lens etc. just to get a colour set going.
Anyways, I see the benefits of such a tool, and think it'd be a neat side project for product development.
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@sinusoid Has anyone started such a thread? I'm new to the mech scene, but this sounds like just the kind of project I'd enjoy taking on, even directing if necessary. I've a mixed history with CAD, consumer goods, and now work as a Front-End dev focusing on UX. I'd also be a prime example of a candidate who could benefit from such as tool, since I don't want to go through the learning curve of yet another CAD program, learning its implementation of material,lighting,lens etc. just to get a colour set going.
Anyways, I see the benefits of such a tool, and think it'd be a neat side project for product development.
AFAIK no such thread exists. I know that CQ_Cumbers is providing a paid service for this, I think he has a thread for this elsewhere on the forum, can't find it now.
There are some immediate issues with this that I think should be resolved in the first place:
1. Figure out how to render client-side.
If this is not happening, then the server costs skyrocket.
WebGL/asm.js/WASM/other custom solutions in browser would require writing or emulating a rendering engine in javascript. This is bad and time consuming to implement.
The best way to do it I think is to generate a .blend file that a user can open and that will render automatically to a file, or offer choices on what to do.
In general, I think a .blend file with a python script inside that generates the keycaps/keyboard model, materials and scene, then renders, would be the best and most flexible solution.
When a .blend file is loaded as trusted, it can execute a script at startup. See addons like Bolt Factory for mesh generative code examples.
2. Process the data from the keycap/keyboard/layout generator(s) in a way that can be converted into a file in pt. 1. This is pretty flexible, because using a script would allow this solution to use both ready-made 3d models, and make custom ones (even parametrical, that can be later tweaked in Blender). Generating letters and icons on keycaps may be an issue - there are at least two ways to solve them.
I don't need this, but like I said, I can help out with know how from Blender side.
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https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/kle-for-blender-updated-with-support-for-sa-profile-t18382.html
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Didn't test, but looks awesome! :thumb:
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@sinusoid Has anyone started such a thread? I'm new to the mech scene, but this sounds like just the kind of project I'd enjoy taking on, even directing if necessary. I've a mixed history with CAD, consumer goods, and now work as a Front-End dev focusing on UX. I'd also be a prime example of a candidate who could benefit from such as tool, since I don't want to go through the learning curve of yet another CAD program, learning its implementation of material,lighting,lens etc. just to get a colour set going.
Anyways, I see the benefits of such a tool, and think it'd be a neat side project for product development.
AFAIK no such thread exists. I know that CQ_Cumbers is providing a paid service for this, I think he has a thread for this elsewhere on the forum, can't find it now.
There are some immediate issues with this that I think should be resolved in the first place:
1. Figure out how to render client-side.
If this is not happening, then the server costs skyrocket.
WebGL/asm.js/WASM/other custom solutions in browser would require writing or emulating a rendering engine in javascript. This is bad and time consuming to implement.
The best way to do it I think is to generate a .blend file that a user can open and that will render automatically to a file, or offer choices on what to do.
In general, I think a .blend file with a python script inside that generates the keycaps/keyboard model, materials and scene, then renders, would be the best and most flexible solution.
When a .blend file is loaded as trusted, it can execute a script at startup. See addons like Bolt Factory for mesh generative code examples.
2. Process the data from the keycap/keyboard/layout generator(s) in a way that can be converted into a file in pt. 1. This is pretty flexible, because using a script would allow this solution to use both ready-made 3d models, and make custom ones (even parametrical, that can be later tweaked in Blender). Generating letters and icons on keycaps may be an issue - there are at least two ways to solve them.
I don't need this, but like I said, I can help out with know how from Blender side.
Cool, well on that note, I'll open a new thread and kick this off the right way, by gathering information. No sense in jumping to solutions if it's unapproachable by the end user.
https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/kle-for-blender-updated-with-support-for-sa-profile-t18382.html
That's great! It's tools like this that could prove useful in the end. I'm downloading blender now, and I'll shortly setup that plugin. I'll likely be PMing you folks to get up to speed on implementing some things, but for now I'll focus on starting this other thread.
Cheers,
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Incase you missed it, started the new thread here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94448.0