Author Topic: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth  (Read 28075 times)

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Offline LeoneShamoth

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Hello Geekhack, today I present you the
Mochi40


Mochi40 (Taro Colourway)

Disclaimer:
The Mochi40 is based off of the Whimsy, a board designed by Prkns that was meant to go into group buy around a year ago. After Prkns went silent for almost 4 months, I began to reverse engineer the Whimsy through the renders and the files publicly available on GitHub. After building a small following on the ThisIsFourteen server, I moved to my own server and began to differentiate my project from the Whimsy. Additionally, all the files I have created are publicly available on GitHub under a permissible license to keep with the open source nature of the project: https://github.com/Aidan-OS/Mochi40

Prkns still hasn't directly communicated with his community, however one of his moderators has communicated for him stating that he does not know when he will be able to return to the world of keyboards. As a result I continued to develop the Mochi40.

How does the Mochi40 differentiate itself from the Whimsy? Well, the title of the post gives some of it away, but let's get into it!


Case Material and Colours

The Mochi40 will be made of 6063 aluminum and exclusively treated with Cerakote. There are currently 8 colour options shown below. I am in close contact with my coating shop and have confirmed that all of these colours will be okay to do, provided a minimum order of 10 per colour. If I get very little to no interest on a colour it will be dropped, but other than that all these colours will be run. Additionally, I am in midst of working with the shop to get basic prototype testing of each of the mixed colours on scrap material.


Taro (Bright Purple + Stormtrooper White mix)                                                                                       Butterfly Tea (It's a Boy Blue)

Liquorice (Blackout Black)                                                                                                 Matcha (Mojito Green + Stormtrooper White mix)

Plain (Stormtrooper White)                                                                                                                   Red Bean (Crimson)

Strawberry (Bazooka Pink)                                                                                                       Waterdrop (Ceramic High Gloss Clear)

Plate Materials

Currently I am confident in offering FR4, PC, POM, and aluminum plates. I have done work to find a place which will provide brass plates at a reasonable price, however have been out of luck. Brass is still included on the IC, however unless there is a considerable amount of interest in it (and people are willing to pay a premium) I will not be offering brass.

PCB & Layout

The core of the Mochi40 is the fine!40 PCB. There will be two options for the fine!40 rev1, a soldered and a hotswap version.

The soldered version of the PCB will require you to solder everything: the diodes, the microcontroller, the OLED, the rotary encoder, the reset button, and the switches.

The hotswap version will still require you to solder the microcontroller, OLED, the reset button, and Rotary Encoder, but not the diodes and switches.

Below is an image featuring the available layouts on the fine!40 soldered PCB. As for the Hotswap PCB, the only available layout will be L1. I am currently considering switching L1 to be 2.25u + 2.75u, so that is included on the IC.



Mochi40 Layout Options

Microcontrollers, OLEDs, & Firmware

The fine!40 pcb is capable of functioning with two different microcontrollers, the nice!nano and the Elite-C. I will be providing both as options at group buy time, with the nice!nano being slightly more expensive and including a JST header for your battery. Doing things in this manner allows for me to offer a bluetooth upgrade at as low of a cost as possible.

I will be offering two different sizes of SSD1306 OLED at the time of the group buy, 128x64 and 32x6, both with white lighting.

As for firmware, the Elite-C version will use QMK, while the nice!nano will use ZMK.


Purchase Options
I really wish I could work out a way to make this less complicated of a breakdown, but I just can't. There will be two core purchasing options, the Mochi40 Kit and the fine!40 PCB.


Mochi40 Kit
Required Parts
1 x Aluminum Case (any colour)
1 x fine!40 PCB (Soldered or Hotswap)
1 x Core electronics kit (diodes, rotary encoder, reset button)
1 x Core mounting kit (screws, 50A Silicone o-rings)
1 x OLED (128x64, 128x32)
1 x Microcontroller (Elite-C or nice!nano)
1 x Acrylic Screen Cover

Optional Parts
1 x Plate & Plate Foam (yes this can be built plateless)
1 x JST battery connector (for nice!nano)


fine!40 PCB
Required Parts
1 x fine!40 PCB (Soldered or Hotswap)
1 x Core electronics kit (diodes, rotary encoder, reset button)
1 x Microcontroller (Elite-C or nice!nano)
1 x Core mounting kit (screws, 50A Silicone o-rings)
1 x OLED (128x64, 128x32)
1 x Acrylic Screen Cover
 
Optional Parts
1 x JST Battery connector
1 x Plastic mounting kit (Threaded inserts for 3D printed cases)

Extra Parts for Individual Purchase
- All plates
- Extra Microcontrollers
- Extra Acrylic Screen Covers
- Extra OLED Screens
- Plate Foam


Vendors and Pricing
NA: Me (Located in Toronto, Canada)
UK: Protozoa
EU: CandyKeys
AUS: Allcaps
SEA: Hex Keyboards
India: StacksKB
Japan: TBD

Pricing per vendor differs more than just the currency conversion. This is due to the costs associated with vendors. If you are ordering from an area where a vendor sells, you are going to save money on shipping and taxes as a result. I would also like to note that the Cases and Plates for this board are being produced in North America, not China.




Prototype(s)
In this day and age you can't really come to GH without a prototype it seems, so I have done so. My first prototype is of a slightly older case design with the only major change being the removal of the center screw post.





The prototype definitely has some issues to address, all of which should be fixed in the second prototype I am currently having made. First, there are some small holes in the bottom of the case as a result of tolerance issues. Second there is clear ringing on some of the outside edges of the case which will not be present in the final versions by adding another finishing pass. Finally, there are two spots where the coating is rough as a result of the hanger rubbing against the board while drying. This will be solved with a custom drying rig for the final product.

One more thing to comment on is the thin coating on bottom inside edges of the case. This is a result of an intentional cost cutting measure that has been done to bring the board out for a lower price. This thinner coating will only be present on the bottom inside of the case (where it is not visible when built).


My Thanks to the Community
I have a large list of people to say thanks to as a result of the fantastic support that I have gotten from many discords. Heck, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for the OGs on my discord server who have been helping every step of the way with feedback and design input. They pushed me to turn this into a full project instead of just making a Whimsy for myself. Please note that this list of thanks is in absolutely no order:

Bomtarnes from the QMK Discord
Filterpaper from the QMK Discord
Drashna from the QMK Discord
Dan from RingerKeys
Pete Johanson of ZMK
BraveKarma of the ZMK Discord
Maple Computing of the Elite-C Project
Nick of Nice Keyboards
Ecto of Protozoa
MakerJake
FreshFromTheGrave
JC of Allcaps
David of CandyKeys
Jaspertandy of Fourteen
Prkns of Fourteen
Everyone on the AidanSmith.dev Discord


Interest Check Form
Discord



Update
It's unfortunate that it is really difficult to get the entire situation across. I have on multiple occasions spoken with Jaspertandy, the only person on the ThisIsFourteen discord who has had direct communication with Prkns. This is their feelings on the Mochi40 (note that this is from all the way back in January)




I would also like to clarify that I built none of what I currently have off of the source code of the Whimsy. I reverse engineered the case from renders, and I have designed the PCB, and created the firmware for both QMK and ZMK myself.


« Last Edit: Thu, 24 February 2022, 19:47:55 by LeoneShamoth »

Offline LeoneShamoth

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 19:41:25 »
Reserved for updates

[2022-02-22 1:07AM EST]
Added JP and India vendors, change cost layout to hopefully make it less ambiguous. The "Mochi40 Kit" comes with a PCB.

[2022-02-22 8:59PM EST]
Added CAD Prices. Added blurb about the production location for the case and plates.

[2022-02-23 2:11AM EST]
Added clarification on the original designer's stance.

[2022-02-24 8:47PM EST]
Changed JP vendor to TBD due to unfortunate disagreements. I will ship to JP if needed, but will also remain in search of a JP vendor.
« Last Edit: Thu, 24 February 2022, 19:49:49 by LeoneShamoth »

Offline Sandy

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 19:43:14 »
I don't know how I feel about someone reverse engineering a design from someone just because they went silent and you want the design.
🍑C11🍑KWA.6🍑GPK60 47-GR1RE🍑Vast60🍑Rose60🍑EHKB🍑Viktus Sinne🍑Boop65🍑Jelly60 Pro🍑Fuji65🍑Ginkgo 65🍑S7.7🍑Treasure Type-9 II🍑Thermal R2🍑Jelly 60🍑


Offline joro1662

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 19:53:24 »
Man these colors are so fun and Whimsy-cal! can I recommend making this integrated as to make it not suck? GLWIC!

Offline dededecline

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 19:53:30 »
Putting aside the cloning concern, which is not invalid, $260 is such a high price for a board that requires soldering all components to the PCB.

Related to the cloning point, it would've been nice to see some innovation over Whimsy's original design for something like this.

Also that 2x 2.25u split space is a keyset kitting nightmare and I recommend axing it. Nice to see the 2x 2u layout in there. May want to consider a 6.25u layout as well, 7u is still pretty unusual for 40%s and most 40%-only sets don't even include 7u.
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 February 2022, 19:58:49 by dededecline »

Offline LeoneShamoth

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 19:56:46 »
Whoops, sorry about the form link being broken! No idea what GeekHack decided to do there.

Offline epid

  • Posts: 4
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 20:01:33 »
Man these colors are so fun and Whimsy-cal! can I recommend making this integrated as to make it not suck? GLWIC!

Leave it PM based so I can use an RP2040

Offline chat and team

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 20:11:46 »
"In this day and age you can't really come to GH without a prototype it seems, so I have done so. My first prototype is of a slightly older case design with the only major change being the removal of the center screw post."
yea meanwhile 2022 tray mount for 200 and a 40 too
Also not too sure about slapping a weeb name on it would attract anyone without it having an engraving of some sort
geekhack mods constantly break tos and refuse to read
Chinese overlords won

Offline wndy

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 20:12:09 »
Nice to see this IC up! I had been following the discussion pretty closely in the thisisfourteen discord and was looking forward to seeing where it would go.

Related to the cloning point, it would've been nice to see some innovation over Whimsy's original design for something like this.

One thing I can comment on here at least, is that the original Whimsy did not fully support wireless, and I'm at least aware of some changes to the PCB to fix a few issues, that included.

Can't wait to see how this goes, GLWIC

Offline joro1662

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 20:19:14 »
Nice to see this IC up! I had been following the discussion pretty closely in the thisisfourteen discord and was looking forward to seeing where it would go.

Related to the cloning point, it would've been nice to see some innovation over Whimsy's original design for something like this.

One thing I can comment on here at least, is that the original Whimsy did not fully support wireless, and I'm at least aware of some changes to the PCB to fix a few issues, that included.

Can't wait to see how this goes, GLWIC

2 Things:
1) Whimsy could have supported a n!n because its a PM replacement, just saying.
2) This is still a complete clone of whimsy, including cursed bottom row options and a wonderfully overpriced kit that doesn't include an integrated pcb.

Offline dededecline

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 20:22:46 »

Whimsy could have supported a n!n because its a PM replacement, just saying.


I mostly agree with you, but "at least" this now has dedicated space in the case for the battery. It's not much but I get where they're coming from.

Offline wndy

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 20:26:30 »
Nice to see this IC up! I had been following the discussion pretty closely in the thisisfourteen discord and was looking forward to seeing where it would go.

Related to the cloning point, it would've been nice to see some innovation over Whimsy's original design for something like this.

One thing I can comment on here at least, is that the original Whimsy did not fully support wireless, and I'm at least aware of some changes to the PCB to fix a few issues, that included.

Can't wait to see how this goes, GLWIC

2 Things:
1) Whimsy could have supported a n!n because its a PM replacement, just saying.
2) This is still a complete clone of whimsy, including cursed bottom row options and a wonderfully overpriced kit that doesn't include an integrated pcb.

To the first point, I could be incorrect, however from what I remember the whimsy would've needed the pins on the Elite-C to properly support OLED, which are missing on the nice!nano. I do remember Prkns saying directly that it would not support OLED with the n!n in his own discord.

To the second, I'm by no means saying this is an entirely original idea. Personally, I probably won't buy one anyway, although it doesn't feel as much of a clone as many other things I've seen due to the original being vaporware designed by someone who went entirely silent for half a year now without warning. Should Prkns come back to comment on not liking this board being run, I wouldn't really want to see the project continue, but as someone who had initially closely followed Whimsy from its first announcement, I would hate to see the board never exist in any form.

Offline TheIcyKoala

  • Posts: 38
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 20:51:19 »
I like the look of that size of OLED, happy to see more boards using it
GLWIC :thumb:

Offline nicoles

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 23:32:24 »
This is gross if you didn't get permission from prkns! It's a carbon copy of Whimsy, and just cause he hasn't made it available for sale doesn't give you any right to sell it yourself. This isn't like, a common design or aesthetic, and it isn't something retro you're reviving from long long ago. This is a design that someone has clearly put a ton of work into, and you've ripped it off.

Gross.

Offline OJtheTiny

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 23:41:56 »
This is gross if you didn't get permission from prkns! It's a carbon copy of Whimsy, and just cause he hasn't made it available for sale doesn't give you any right to sell it yourself. This isn't like, a common design or aesthetic, and it isn't something retro you're reviving from long long ago. This is a design that someone has clearly put a ton of work into, and you've ripped it off.

Gross.
oh no, someone made a board somewhat similar to a board doesn't exist

Offline nicoles

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 21 February 2022, 23:51:43 »
This is gross if you didn't get permission from prkns! It's a carbon copy of Whimsy, and just cause he hasn't made it available for sale doesn't give you any right to sell it yourself. This isn't like, a common design or aesthetic, and it isn't something retro you're reviving from long long ago. This is a design that someone has clearly put a ton of work into, and you've ripped it off.

Gross.
oh no, someone made a board somewhat similar to a board doesn't exist


Offline VellFlamm

  • Posts: 91
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 00:34:25 »
This is just highkey disgusting.

Offline JSizzle6000

  • Posts: 1
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 00:52:17 »
Super excited! Glad to see the whimsy finally realized in spirit!

Offline Jakob

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 01:15:28 »
If you want the Whimsy, just wait for the Whimsy. Running a clone without even talking to Prkns to get an okay for using his design is disrespectful and entitled at best, no amount of open sourcing is gonna change that. If you're going to be so blatant about ripping off an existing design, at least try to iterate on it by doing something like changing the split space kitting for better compatibility, changing the design to a "nicer" mounting style, integrating the microcontroller into the PCB to stop depending on pro micros or something else. The change you've made is to allow nice!nanos for bluetooth, have you been able to address the issue the original Whimsy design had where this would leave too few available pins for the OLED after the switch matrix and rotary encoder are connected?
I also have issues with the pricing for the PCB, $60 for what amounts to a DIY diode bonanza kit is hard to swallow when DIY PCB kits of similar scope with integrated controllers and an FR4 plate cost literally half that. All in all, this project needs a lot more work to differentiate itself in order to not feel super icky, this seems a lot like you're trying to cash in on the fading Whimsy hype without even trying to be original about it and that's just gross.

Offline Mecxs

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 02:03:18 »
The best thing about 40s is the innovation.

The whimsy was a problematic board - terrible bottom row options, unconventional stagger, extremely poor kitting support even assuming you chose the non-awful spacebar setup, non-integrated PCB, tray mount design, etc etc. But at least it was innovative and something cool that came from a place of passion. Prkns knew what he wanted and made that.

If you're going to go to all the trouble of making a keyboard ... why not make a good one?

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 05:16:06 »
grabs popcorn

Offline Cipulot

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 05:21:33 »
The project, as for the original Whimsy, has some flaws that can't be overlooked. On the subject of cloning/ripping off..... it's complicated. I'm not going to go all out like someone here by saying "gross" or "disgusting", words hold a weight and in this case there's really no need to go out like that but a clear message from Prkns is needed.
Having the project OS is the bare minimum that I expect from a situation like this. If the PCB and case system were a bit different all of this would prob not have happened.

Let's talk about the PM.... it really limits the board imo and this reflects to the case too, like for other PM based projects you need a big a** cutout bc of tollerances and usb port being wack on those modules.  I get that in this way you give the option to go "simple PM" or wireless.
I also recognize that having it integrated would be much better. Having looked at the PCB I can assure you that the space is there to be used. Especially with nrf52840 modules you can very easily have a single PCB with double footprint for both options if you feel like. This way you take away the need for laying down a complete pcb design for the nrf chip and complementary circuit. Furthermore, having the MCU directly on the PCB allows you to have full access to the entire I/O of the Atmega. As of now, using PM, the matrix of the fine!40 uses way more pins that are actually needed..... so that's a flaw in and of itself.

Pricing, as of now, for the options given, is not the most amazing thing around. Lots of people see this, in it's current state, using PM, as a "upgrade kit" with Alu case and that, aside from the whimsy situation, doesn't not play well.

My personal advice would be to work more on this. Solve the PCB situation, support more layout with sensical kitting and from there you can have a much nicer and refined case with different mounting option.

Since I assume lots of potential buyer for this are long waiting whimsy followers, I'd go a step further by improving it in such a way that you can actually attract more userbase and offer a more compelling option.
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 February 2022, 05:26:10 by Cipulot »

Offline VellFlamm

  • Posts: 91
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 06:03:12 »
I mean every weight and strength of the word disgusting.

From what I know from their IC thread, Prkns haven't yet abandoned the project. The wait is something to do with their personal life, not their lack of interest in the project. And this person just copies the design and shears the design because they can't wait? Come on.

Offline Cipulot

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 06:48:37 »
I mean every weight and strength of the word disgusting.

From what I know from their IC thread, Prkns haven't yet abandoned the project. The wait is something to do with their personal life, not their lack of interest in the project. And this person just copies the design and shears the design because they can't wait? Come on.

Everyone their own. I get what you say and agree. That's why I think that this project needs some rework, to be more than a "since X is stuck for Y and Z reasons I made Q for me and everyone waiting".
A reframe will ensure that, at the end of the day, the community and the users are happy to have both options to chose.

Starting with PCB rework and subsequently case redesign will basically give a very different end result, both in terms of layout options and pricing.
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 February 2022, 06:50:24 by Cipulot »

Offline andromache

  • Posts: 209
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 09:43:52 »
Idk I think it's fine to see the Whimsy and be like "oh I want a cute 40 with an OLED and a knob" so I will make my own, and design something like that, but reverse engineering it + not really doing anything to make this original or interesting sucks.

Offline Cipulot

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 09:58:22 »
Idk I think it's fine to see the Whimsy and be like "oh I want a cute 40 with an OLED and a knob" so I will make my own, and design something like that, but reverse engineering it + not really doing anything to make this original or interesting sucks.

This pretty much sums it up perfectly, more differentiation is needed, there's not much to reverse engineer (at the end of the day it's a 40% with knob and oled, no custom per key lighting or backight, haptic or anything weird) but definitely things can be added, changed and improved.

Offline rpiguy9907

  • Posts: 160
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 12:52:23 »
A lot of people asked for a Southpaw Whimsy. I wish you had considered adding that as an option.

Offline KeeBnnuy

  • Posts: 12
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 15:50:53 »
I mean every weight and strength of the word disgusting.

From what I know from their IC thread, Prkns haven't yet abandoned the project. The wait is something to do with their personal life, not their lack of interest in the project. And this person just copies the design and shears the design because they can't wait? Come on.

Do you seriously think he's not gonna at the VERY LEAST try everything to work with Prkns if he ever comes out of the shadows? Come on....This isnt a clone cash grab. It's picking up the work on an amazing abandoned prototype to make it a reality.
"Disgusting", give me a break... If it's done with respect for the original designer in mind, what is so wrong with making something cool happen?

Offline NoteMakoti

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Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 18:34:30 »
Looks great, I wish the switches weren’t exposed, though.

Offline marici22

  • Posts: 28
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 19:27:30 »
It's sleek and clean but I could never get used these keyboards that I have to utilize layers  :(

Offline unixb0y

  • Posts: 14
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 20:10:49 »
Hyyyped!!! I was waiting for Whimsy for years and so glad the project was picked up again, after it became clear the project had been abandoned for good.

Also, the Whimsy was open-source, so how can you call it stealing or copying if it's available to the public for commercial use anyway? Prkns could have just made it closed source if he didn't want people to make their own version of Whimsy or otherwise contribute to the project.. Or CC etc (other licenses that prohibit commercial re-use).

Then again you can't copy something that doesn't exist. Whimsy is probably never going to happen.. so it doesn't and won't exist.. Aidan's making a service to the whole Whimsy fanbase that patiently waited for months without a single message. We didn't even get a short "guys, I need x months personal time, will pick it back up in 20xx".

Finally, this isn't just a CTRL+C / CTRL+V. Have you checked both GitHubs? Aidan basically remade everything from scratch, but better. Like, better PCB layout, more options, hotswap support, all 90 degree angles (yes, I remember prkns' design files weren't square in some places), etc etc etc.
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 February 2022, 20:13:11 by unixb0y »

Offline VellFlamm

  • Posts: 91
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 20:14:58 »
Do you seriously think he's not gonna at the VERY LEAST try everything to work with Prkns if he ever comes out of the shadows?

If Prkns is back, why does this guy even need to be a part of Prkns project.

Come on....This isnt a clone cash grab.

Yes it is a clone cash grab. 60USD for a PCB that isn't even PCBAed, and a tray mount case (140USD) from a manu that has so many imperfection.

It's picking up the work on an amazing abandoned prototype to make it a reality.

AKA stealing

If it's done with respect for the original designer in mind, what is so wrong with making something cool happen?

Respect AKA carbon copying and making it open source with out the designers permission.

There is nothing wrong with making something cool happen.
And that's where everything is wrong with this project.

Edit: I stand corrected, and I take back what I said about the case cost being too high.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 February 2022, 02:39:25 by VellFlamm »

Offline VellFlamm

  • Posts: 91
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 20:25:34 »
Whimsy's PCB was open source, not the actual project.

Offline a-jih

  • Posts: 4
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 22 February 2022, 21:06:04 »
I understand how a lot of people may be skeptical about the project, and it's a great thing that people are concerned about giving credit where its due. That said, I think this IC is missing some critical piece of context:

282984-0

This was a message from the aforementioned mod, Jasper, in the IC description on the Fourteen Discord channel. Prkns is aware of the Mochi40 project, as is his moderators. As Jasper has stated, sure it's disappointing to see the Whimsy project to have reached this point, but there's no ill will between Fourteen and Aiden. If anything, it's relieved Prkns of some pressure now that Mochi40 is taking the reigns, so to speak.

Some additional correspondences:

282986-1

It may not be a direct endorsement of the project, but it seems Jasper (who has largely taken over updating folks on Prkns' projects) is okay with the Mochi40, at least in an inspirational stand point.

--

With that out of the way, I just wanted to provide my two cents on the matter of plagiarism. I personally think it's a little harsh to call the Mochi40 a direct clone of the Whimsy. Yes, the overall design is very reminiscent of the Whimsy, perhaps to a fault. That said, Aiden never really claimed that his board is wholly original and states pretty flatly that the Mochi40 is based off the Whimsy. However, there are also a number of key features that differentiate it from the Whimsy, ie. additional plate materials, colorways, and layout options; hotswap PCB; bluetooth support; etc.

Given the above, I find it hard to say that the Mochi40 is a copy-paste clone. Clearly, some thought and effort was done to be transformative to some capacity. Is it perhaps a little more derivative than I'd hope? Yeah, maybe. I personally think more could have been done to shake things up in terms of its external design while still attracting Whimsy-wanters and those new to this flavor of keyboard. The placement of the knob could have been changed (eg. making it southpaw, as rpiguy9907 mentioned), the side profile could have been adjusted, a weight option could have been added...but I digress.

On the topic of price -- I'm sure the numbers don't come from nowhere. The cost of aluminum and electronic components have been on the rise during the pandemic, and I figure manufacturing parts locally in a shop that might not have the same economies of scale as one overseas no doubt contributes to the overall cost of the board. For some context, the price estimate for the Whimsy as of last February was $235 US. The price of aluminum has increased nearly 70% since then (see https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/aluminum), which makes the current $235 estimate for the Mochi40 (with plate and foam) pretty wild imo. Granted, there might be more nuance than that, but I'd like to give Aiden the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the pricing.

As for the quality -- we're still dealing with the first prototype here, which is by no means reflective of the final product. Aiden even says it's a little shoddy. Here's hoping he remains transparent on the issue and perhaps reconsiders his manufacturer if subsequent prototypes aren't up to par.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope I shed some light on Whimsy/Mochi40 debacle and provided some helpful feedback. GLWIC, I hope in the end both the Whimsy and Mochi40 reach fruition and can co-exist :D

Offline HappyB0T

  • Posts: 435
  • Location: Midwest, USA
  • I'm a Piggie
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 23 February 2022, 00:55:23 »
Choosing to ignore everything else.
• Not seeing an MOQ / Limit for this project. ( I tried - couldn't find it)
• You put yourself as the vendor for NA. Do you have a store? / have you run a groupbuy before? Why not partner with a Vendor for NA?
• You posted files on Github - why run a groupbuy? The files are out in the open and people can print the keyboard. ( I know it is not ready for production but it isn't far off)
• Why wait for you to run an international group buy when someone could do a short run of 5?
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 February 2022, 02:47:23 by HappyB0T »

Offline DeMechanica

  • Posts: 114
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 23 February 2022, 04:57:28 »
Would be keen to see an Ortho PCB! Can also help with making one if you’d like.

Offline KeeBnnuy

  • Posts: 12
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 23 February 2022, 06:18:58 »
• You posted files on Github - why run a groupbuy? The files are out in the open and people can print the keyboard. ( I know it is not ready for production but it isn't far off)
Not everyone has access to a 3d printer or the desire to use one... I for one would not be interested if i have to put effort beyond paying for the ready-to-assemble materials and assembling it.

Offline KeeBnnuy

  • Posts: 12
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 23 February 2022, 06:24:29 »
Do you seriously think he's not gonna at the VERY LEAST try everything to work with Prkns if he ever comes out of the shadows?

If Prkns is back, why does this guy even need to be a part of Prkns project.

Come on....This isnt a clone cash grab.

Yes it is a clone cash grab. 60USD for a PCB that isn't even PCBAed, and a tray mount case (140USD) from a manu that has so many imperfection.

It's picking up the work on an amazing abandoned prototype to make it a reality.

AKA stealing

If it's done with respect for the original designer in mind, what is so wrong with making something cool happen?

Respect AKA carbon copying and making it open source with out the designers permission.

There is nothing wrong with making something cool happen.
And that's where everything is wrong with this project.

Edit: I stand corrected, and I take back what I said about the case cost being too high.
Eh, you're just in bad faith at this point bud.
You sound like you would get mad over someone taking a screenshot of an NFT.
I'm gonna leave you to your frustration since A-Jih's comment pretty much summed it up perfectly already.

Offline genevatypes

  • Posts: 50
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 23 February 2022, 08:47:17 »
Cool! A keyboard that people have been wanting and this dude has the means/time to do it.
It's near impossible to get a hold of perkins so I respect the work this took and the fact that this isnt a cashgrab given the economy today. Hopefully, 2nd proto will be better. glwic, joining in on and this and the whimsy when/if it comes out.

Offline oilpapers

  • Posts: 84
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 23 February 2022, 10:25:07 »

If Prkns is back, why does this guy even need to be a part of Prkns project.

Yes it is a clone cash grab. 60USD for a PCB that isn't even PCBAed, and a tray mount case (140USD) from a manu that has so many imperfection.

AKA stealing

Respect AKA carbon copying and making it open source with out the designers permission.

There is nothing wrong with making something cool happen.
And that's where everything is wrong with this project.

Edit: I stand corrected, and I take back what I said about the case cost being too high.

Wow you suck.

Offline orange.island

  • Posts: 3
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 23 February 2022, 19:33:50 »
I don't get why some people are so angry. Didn't you read the description? The first thing it says is "The Mochi40 is based off of the Whimsy, a board designed by Prkns" and you're acting like that detail isn't even there. Aidan knows this, that's why it's even in the IC description in the first place and he f****** owns it, that's why this IC exists so move on already.


I don't know how I feel about someone reverse engineering a design from someone just because they went silent and you want the design.

Aidan built this from scratch up, if you wanna check that fact, clone his repo, it's public and dig into his commits. The original repo only has code for the PCB, not the case and to build the case so reverse engineer is needed. Reverse engineer require you fixing stuff without knowing the codebase and building missing part of an operation. Would yourself be able to fix the PCB without knowing exactly what went wrong, build a case when you don't know exactly where parts go and you only have code for the PCB? No one wakes up one day and decides to reverse engineer something. It takes time, effort and consideration, not just because the original owner went silent and Aidan wants the design.


"In this day and age you can't really come to GH without a prototype it seems, so I have done so. My first prototype is of a slightly older case design with the only major change being the removal of the center screw post."
yea meanwhile 2022 tray mount for 200 and a 40 too
Also not too sure about slapping a weeb name on it would attract anyone without it having an engraving of some sort


Excuse you, yeah it's a weeb name and so what? It was a community vote in discord so yes shame on you, it does attract people even without engraving. And guess what? Inflation exists -> material & manufacture procedure increase their prices.



If you want the Whimsy, just wait for the Whimsy. Running a clone without even talking to Prkns to get an okay for using his design is disrespectful and entitled at best, no amount of open sourcing is gonna change that. If you're going to be so blatant about ripping off an existing design, at least try to iterate on it by doing something like changing the split space kitting for better compatibility, changing the design to a "nicer" mounting style, integrating the microcontroller into the PCB to stop depending on pro micros or something else. The change you've made is to allow nice!nanos for bluetooth, have you been able to address the issue the original Whimsy design had where this would leave too few available pins for the OLED after the switch matrix and rotary encoder are connected?
I also have issues with the pricing for the PCB, $60 for what amounts to a DIY diode bonanza kit is hard to swallow when DIY PCB kits of similar scope with integrated controllers and an FR4 plate cost literally half that. All in all, this project needs a lot more work to differentiate itself in order to not feel super icky, this seems a lot like you're trying to cash in on the fading Whimsy hype without even trying to be original about it and that's just gross.

What do you know about the what actually happened? Nothing, all you've got is assumption because there are no news and no one else knows and no one has the right to judge. Define clone. How does reverse engineer + building things back from scratch = clone? Having an idea and actually building out that idea are 2 different things. If Aidan wasn't able to address the pre-existing issues, this IC wouldn't be here. If you have issues with the prices and say that DIY kits has better price, you can go diy. The repo is public, go build your own keyboard. Your changing ideas might have been considered at some point but either too small of an amount or just don't exist in target audience. If you want new features, just be polite about it. No one is forcing you to buy this and more for the people who actually want it. You want to stay and support Whimsy? Sure, more than welcome to do that. Others want to pursue Mochi40? Of course, they can, you're not their mom, can't tell them what to do with their money. No need to go in here to shame on people's projects and cut off others' hopes.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 February 2022, 19:36:26 by orange.island »

Offline rokon07

  • Posts: 43
  • Location: Nairobi, Kenya
  • Reddit: u/rokon-07 | Discord: rokon07#2203
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 25 February 2022, 00:23:55 »
So much debate  :eek: I would buy if a GB is run. GLWIC
Keycult 1/60 Rev.1 | KL90 | Keycult 2/65 Red| Keycult No2 Contemporary Red | Sat75 | Rama M60a

Offline soundstage

  • Posts: 98
  • Location: Coimbatore, India
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 25 February 2022, 11:53:06 »
I have no idea about the original Whimsy but picking up a stalled project and making it a reality is very good for the community. I see a lot of debate going on, so I want to ask the designer of the project if he can go all out with this project. Add lots of bells and whistles, make it the best 40% out there. Deliver a product that makes the inspiration look dull/pale in comparison. Make the PCB fully fleshed out with per key SMD RGB, SMD diodes and even SMD controller. Don't just stop with adding BT functionality. Add acrylic slots to the case bottom side corners so RGB can shine through. One up the older design all the way through.

Offline psxndc

  • Posts: 504
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 25 February 2022, 23:20:29 »
Would be keen to see an Ortho PCB! Can also help with making one if you’d like.
Seconding this. Ortho or bust for me.
Ortho. Always.

Offline nFaiz

  • Posts: 92
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 27 February 2022, 19:24:21 »
Hello guys here’s my 3 rupees 60 dollars for pm pcb skam thanks for coming to my ted talk
also it’s not that hard to make an original 40s board with knob and oled you could’ve at least tried a little harder

Offline kioskhill45

  • Posts: 28
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 27 February 2022, 20:18:36 »
Honestly, I'd actually like it more if it were a 1:1 copy of the Whimsy. The case is pretty generic looking, and I think the rounder design of the Whimsy would even fit the mochi40 name better.

Offline nFaiz

  • Posts: 92
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 27 February 2022, 20:19:35 »
Honestly, I'd actually like it more if it were a 1:1 copy of the Whimsy. The case is pretty generic looking, and I think the rounder design of the Whimsy would even fit the mochi40 name better.
so you want whimsy

Offline __init__

  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 27 February 2022, 23:39:38 »
2 things:

1) I wonder what the reaction would have been if this had been released, say, 6 months after Whimsy had been announced/IC/GB underway?
2) Why isn't there this kind of reaction when a lot of 65%-TKL boards look extremely similar?

That being said, I'm interested to see if there will be any aesthetic case re-design (functionally, it seems fine to me). Interested either way, GLWIC, don't let the haters get you down.

Edit: I am also still interested in Whimsy and will try to pick that up too if it ever gets released.

Offline JoltFX

  • Posts: 113
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 28 February 2022, 00:15:50 »
Very excited for this, I agree with another user in regards to kitting the 2x2.25

Offline KeeBnnuy

  • Posts: 12
Re: Mochi40: A Burger Mounted 40% with a Knob, OLED, and optional Bluetooth
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 11 March 2022, 08:05:40 »
Would love to also see an ortho option