A night with the Realforce 87U All-45g

[Novus]

皆さんこんばんわ、
ちょうど２００回目の投稿に間に合いました。
今回は Real Force 87U All-45G のキーボードのリビューをしたいと思います。
発信！


Packaging:



Keyboard Features:
1.   Topre Switches (All 45G)
2.   "Good Feeling of oneness with cup rubber" (おっぱい星人)
3.   TenKeyless Compact Keyboard
4.   PBT keycaps except for abs spacebar
5.   Dye Sublimated Keycaps.

Let’s open her up. Or

Here, we dont do an "open it up"
we undress her

Here’s a bit of my keyboard experience:

My Daily Driver(s):
1.   Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja (Cherry MX Red) with PBT caps.
2.   Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja (Cherry MX Brown) on occasion.

My Experience with Switches:
I generally touch type quickly without looking at the keyboard. My preferred Cherry MX switches are definitely the Reds. MX Reds are a joy to touch type on and I've never had issues with accidentally depressing keys on the reds.

I started as a MX Blue user and I really liked the tactile feeling of the Blue switches. That was my first taste of a mechanical keyboard. Motivated partially by a desire to try new and different things, I decided to grab a MX Red keyboard instead of sticking with MX Blues. Although I do occasionally miss the tactile click of the blues, I do prefer the reds because I can depress the keys with minimal effort and touch type much faster on the reds. In a sense, I grew out of the tactile feedback crowd.
I’ve also tried black and green switches but I have not used them in any serious capacity.
I also have extensive experience with MX Brown keys. Browns and Reds have very similar feelings until you reach the actuation point. I do like the general feeling of the Browns but I type faster on the Reds.


So why’d you pick the Realforce 87U All-45G Keyboard?
I’m a Cherry MX Red user so I figured 45G would be the way to go.
Originally, I had planned to wait for the CM Novatouch but things never go as you plan. You could say that fate steers you asunder and beckons you in other directions. I just say that I’m a fickle person.
In all seriousness, I felt growing dissatisfaction with Cherry MX in general and this prompted my change into Topre.

PLUS:
•   I've been fighting the impulse to switch my full sized keyboard to a TKL.
•   I've been wanting to try Topre switches for ages.
•   It's made in Japan.
•   It comes with PBT keycaps.
•   I wanted blank keycaps but I'll settle for these hard to read black on black ones
•   I wanted a nice premium product.
•   The time was right and it just felt like the right thing to do. (On Sale)

Thanks to the whimsical forces that be, I acquired my first Realforce Topre keyboard.
A good way to break in a keyboard is to write a review. I’m also formatting a computer while writing this. Seriously, windows update + store + windows 8.1 is a POS. No kidding.

Realforce 87U All-45G Keyboard Particulars.






These are nice keys but they do have sprue marks.


This key puller looks like a POS. I’ll probably stay away from using it.


I’m not a fan of the gap in the middle of the bezel.
This gap looks ugly but hell nobody looks at their keyboard anyways.
This board is quite sturdy and some heft to it. It does not move around.




I never really considered Topre seriously until recently because I always thought that Topre was essentially a fancy rubber dome that would feel mushy. I’m happy to report that isn’t the case.
This keyboard feels very similar to an old IBM keyboard I used to use with windows 3.0. I’m going through some serious nostalgia right now.

It’s swell and a joy to type on. Initially the Topre’s did feel a bit stiff but after 40 minutes of typing I’ve somewhat acclimated to the new switch.

There is a very distinctive and pronounced feeling to the Topre switches that I can’t quite describe yet. It has the essence of an old 90’s IBM keyboard combined with the touch of a cherry MX red.
There isn’t really much more to say other than I like this keyboard and I wish I had blank keycaps.

Now that I’ve actually used Topre:
Topre tends to be a very touchy subject. I won’t get into this too much but I do think that people who tend to prefer clicky, tactile switches don’t like Topre. I think people who prefer linear switches tend to like Topre. I would say that’s my general characterization/impression.

To me, Topre’s feel better than Cherry MX’s. Cherry MX’s have this unpolished feeling that recently started to bother me … and such wobby keys.

Again, to each and their own!

Let’s compare this to my Filco with PBT caps (take this with a graint of salt because the Filco (standard, non TKL) is a bit wide for this scale)




An Olde to my Filco:

I love Filco, I really do. It’s such a nice keyboard except it:
1)   Doesn’t come with PBT keycaps.
2)   Has slight driver issues that causes my computer to not recognize the keyboard sometimes. (for example when my computer is trying to boot up again after it goes to sleep/hibernate).
3)   Is quite expensive for what it offers (and doesn’t come with PBT keycaps).
4)   Has alleged QC issues. Some people don’t feel that the Filco provides enough polish for its price point.

There are some other pros and cons but these are my main gripes with Filco. That being said Filco is still a great quality board.

Now let's talk about money:

Yes, I definitely feel like I got my money’s worth for this board.
I don't feel that way about my Filco, however.
The Filco is about 140-150 dollars in the US. A set of PBT keycaps goes from 30-60 dollars.
When all is said and done, you might as well have gotten a Realforce ... I mean unless you don't like Topre.

Anyways Filco, it's not you it's me. It's time to part for now. Goodbye

Regarding 45 vs 55:

Thanks to those who gave me feedback about which Topre switch to go for.
Many people suggested I go for the 55 and others suggested the 45 for me.
I haven’t tried the 55 and I’m even slightly tempted to try a 35 but I am definitely happy with 45 for now.




Let’s start a RealForce club!

I’ve officially joined the Topre club.
Here’s to many joyous months with my new keyboard!
Cheers

[Pacifist]

How does realforce pbt compare to filco pbt?

[Photoelectric]

"These are nice keys but they do have sprue marks."

Regarding your sprue marks note--I've yet to see any plastic keycaps without them.  Even my GMK keycaps have sprue marks, and those are considered very high quality.  They are on IMSTO's thick PBT caps, vortex thick PBT, SP DCS caps, and every other keycap I've ever owned (other than custom zinc caps and custom molded caps)

[demik]

do not, i repeat, do NOT use that keycap puller.

it will scratch your keycaps.

[Novus]

"These are nice keys but they do have sprue marks."

Regarding your sprue marks note--I've yet to see any plastic keycaps without them.  Even my GMK keycaps have sprue marks, and those are considered very high quality.  They are on IMSTO's thick PBT caps, vortex thick PBT, SP DCS caps, and every other keycap I've ever owned (other than custom zinc caps and custom molded caps)

Right. I misspoke.
I meant to say that sprue marks are a part of the dye sublimation process (from what I understand) but I was sidetracked while reformatting and neglected to put that in.

How does realforce pbt compare to filco pbt?

Quality wise, they're both nice PBT keycaps.
Off the top of my head, I can't say one is better than the other but this deserves further examination.

The realforce has a bit more of a je ne sais quoi to it.
The realforce pbt is a very nice wholesome experience and the Filco pbt touches upon that experience but it can't grasp it entirely.

While swapping PBT caps over the stock Filco ABS caps makes a huge difference, it can still feel a bit lackluster sometimes.
Sorry, I know that's not entirely helpful 

[Novus]

do not, i repeat, do NOT use that keycap puller.

it will scratch your keycaps.

I was thinking about that too when I initially saw that keycap puller.

[Elrick]

The realforce has a bit more of a je ne sais quoi to it.
The realforce pbt is a very nice wholesome experience and the Filco pbt touches upon that experience but it can't grasp it entirely.

To be fair the Realforce has the BEST pbt's currently made for keyboards - enough said.

You need to get BSP pbt's on the Filco then maybe it's the same quality to even fairly compare them both as decent keyboards.  But the Realforce keyboard, you're stuck with those key-caps for now and forever.

[Novus]

The realforce has a bit more of a je ne sais quoi to it.
The realforce pbt is a very nice wholesome experience and the Filco pbt touches upon that experience but it can't grasp it entirely.

To be fair the Realforce has the BEST pbt's currently made for keyboards - enough said.

You need to get BSP pbt's on the Filco then maybe it's the same quality to even fairly compare them both as decent keyboards.  But the Realforce keyboard, you're stuck with those key-caps for now and forever.

I wouldn't mind being stuck with these keycaps .
These feel so nice...

That being said
I heard topre is getting out of the keycap business.
Do they still make/carry Topre keycap sets in Nihon?
I'd love to get a blank red set.
If so I need to ask a friend to get them for me.

[Coreda]

Great impressions post. Have always wanted a HHKB, but couldn't justify the high price, although I saw that Realforce sale that EK had recently.

For now I'll wait and see how my first Cherry Red board turns out, but it was helpful to hear the Topre comparisons.

[Elrick]

For now I'll wait and see how my first Cherry Red board turns out, but it was helpful to hear the Topre comparisons.

Why wait, get the HHKB and be done with it.  EK won't have the discount running forever, and when it goes back up in price guess who'll be kicking himself for missing out on it when it was cheap......

[Linkbane]

I would have to disagree with you when you say that people who like tactile don't like Topre. I'm a die -hard, Blues-only user and I love my FC660C just as much. Tactile as can be and with a pleasurable sound (that doesn't wake up others).

[Coreda]

Why wait, get the HHKB and be done with it.  EK won't have the discount running forever, and when it goes back up in price guess who'll be kicking himself for missing out on it when it was cheap......

Only the HHKB isn't on sale, just the Realforce.

[Linkbane]

Why wait, get the HHKB and be done with it.  EK won't have the discount running forever, and when it goes back up in price guess who'll be kicking himself for missing out on it when it was cheap......

Only the HHKB isn't on sale, just the Realforce.

That's not correct, the Type-S has gotten a major price reduction (and I'd be willing to bet the normal one did also).

[nubbinator]

Right. I misspoke.
I meant to say that sprue marks are a part of the dye sublimation process (from what I understand) but I was sidetracked while reformatting and neglected to put that in.

Sprueing is part of the casting/injection molding process.  If you're going to use a mold to make a cap, you have to have some point of entry for your material, be it plastic, metal, resin, or whatever else you're putting into your mold.  without the sprueing, it would be impossible for the material to fill the mold.

[PolaBurrr]

you mentioned some qc issues with filco. what aspects in particular?

[Novus]

The realforce has a bit more of a je ne sais quoi to it.
The realforce pbt is a very nice wholesome experience and the Filco pbt touches upon that experience but it can't grasp it entirely.

To be fair the Realforce has the BEST pbt's currently made for keyboards - enough said.

You need to get BSP pbt's on the Filco then maybe it's the same quality to even fairly compare them both as decent keyboards.  But the Realforce keyboard, you're stuck with those key-caps for now and forever.

After typing on this more. I really like these keycaps. Like Elrick said, these keycaps definitely blow alot of things out of the water.
I just wish I could get a replacement set and blank sets with colorssssssss.
Need my hot pink keys obviously.

you mentioned some qc issues with filco. what aspects in particular?

My experiences with Filco have been mostly positive (aside from that annoying windows bug - which is both a hardware and software/firmware/controller issue.)
I will say that the keycaps on the non ninja Filco's are pretty bad. I'd expect better for 150 dollars. They wear and shine quickly. I mean a ducky with pbt keycaps or a leopold sound pretty good.
One of my friends who got a Filco (I think this was in 2011 maybe) had to lube his Filco because it was squeaky. I remember he said something to the effect of wtf didn't I just buy a cooler master.
That's all I have which is why I wrote "alleged".
Pinging (which might be a costar issue or something with the stabilizers) is probably the biggest issues people have. Either way I don't seem to have this issue but for 150 bucks...
I've also seen other complaints but I can't remember them and I'm not sure if those complaints can be substantiated.

[PointyFox]

I've had 2 controllers go bad on Filcos.  They did send me a replacement though.

[spuriousgeorge]

How is the noise of your spacebar versus the other keys? Some people say theirs has a bit of a rattle, and a few even take the whole board apart to get at the spacebar stabilizer and lube it, which seems pretty extreme.

That's one thing MX has going for it: relatively easy to access the stabilizers.

Glad you're happy with your board! 

[Novus]

How is the noise of your spacebar versus the other keys? Some people say theirs has a bit of a rattle, and a few even take the whole board apart to get at the spacebar stabilizer and lube it, which seems pretty extreme.

That's one thing MX has going for it: relatively easy to access the stabilizers.

Glad you're happy with your board! 

The spacebar doesn't seem that loud to me.
It's actually nice and tight which is surprisingly since spacebars are always the problem child of keyboards.

I took some quick videos:

Pardon the one hand typing , it's late, I'm sleepy and the other hand has to hold the smartphone.

In most of these I'm typing some random things into a chatroom (planning dinner with friends tomorrow etc)

Propped cell phone against a book.
Kind of in awkward position and slightly obstructing me (I'm kinda wrapping around the book) but whatever

Anyways these were done in the spur of the moment and not great quality.
There's plenty of better videos that are more comprehensive out there.

[Matt3o]

Great report the1onewolf, thanks for sharing.

my opinion on topre is that... you can't tell you have really tried Topre until you tried 55gr Topre.

I have a 55gr realforce and a 45gr Leopold (and have tried a HHKB). Guys, once you get used to the 55gr you really can't type on anything different.

The force difference is barely noticeable, the fact is that the 55gr are snappier and faster to bottom up. It's all another kind of feeling, I reached the point where I really can't stand 45gr topres, I find them smooshy and boring, but I totally love 55gr topres.

YMMV

[Elrick]

The force difference is barely noticeable, the fact is that the 55gr are snappier and faster to bottom up. It's all another kind of feeling, I reached the point where I really can't stand 45gr topres, I find them smooshy and boring, but I totally love 55gr topres.

55's are nice but don't forget these thorpie's are the op's first hence let him find out which ones are best.

Remember this night out with a 'thorpe' is his first, hence like all virgins he needs to put a little experience under his belt.  Then once he gets bored of her he moves onto his next conquest.  Hence eventually the 55 will be on his list despite his so-called loyalty to his current fave.  We all know what's that like, you don't want to insult your current baby by letting her know she's on the short list for rejection.  Play it cool and above all else, never say no to another thorpie.

[Matt3o]

the fact is that you spent $250 in a keyboard and you almost feel obliged to like it. What I'm saying is that if you didn't like a 45gr Topre don't give up because 55gr are completely another story. If you like 45gr instead, well you are just half way to heaven.

[Polymer]

the fact is that you spent $250 in a keyboard and you almost feel obliged to like it. What I'm saying is that if you didn't like a 45gr Topre don't give up because 55gr are completely another story. If you like 45gr instead, well you are just half way to heaven.

Which ones you like will be personal preference though...but if one of the reasons you don't like 45g Topre is they don't feel snappy enough then 55g will definitely be a good option.

To me I like HHKB 45g then RF 55g then RF 45g.

Seems odd but 45g HHKB and 45g RF feel different..the RF 45g feeling softer than the HHKB and I have no idea why that is the case...

Then of course there is variable..which while doesn't feel/sound the best, is quite easy on your hands..I only notice it when I move from a variable to a uniform where it is really obviously that my pinky fingers are working a lot harder than they were on the variable...

[Elrick]

Seems odd but 45g HHKB and 45g RF feel different..the RF 45g feeling softer than the HHKB and I have no idea why that is the case...

Odd I don't mind using either the variable, 45g or the 55g just depends on what I'm typing.  Just refuse to buy a HHKB because to me, it's just a calculator in size, just way too small.

I now stick to a standard TKL (smaller) layout but still prefer the full-sized honeys  .

[Matt3o]

like I said "YMMV". I know people who like MX Brown, which is the personified evil, but thanks god there are options!

What I'm trying to say is that 45gr and 55gr are different beasts and you may like one but not the other, and I encourage everyone to try both.

OF COURSE, this is JUST MY opinion, because that's all I can give you

[Linkbane]

the fact is that you spent $250 in a keyboard and you almost feel obliged to like it. What I'm saying is that if you didn't like a 45gr Topre don't give up because 55gr are completely another story. If you like 45gr instead, well you are just half way to heaven.

I don't know what you're on, but it's impossible to buy a 2.92 gram (or 45 grain) or 3.56 gram (55 grain) keyboard anywhere in existence. Please do some research.

[Matt3o]

the fact is that you spent $250 in a keyboard and you almost feel obliged to like it. What I'm saying is that if you didn't like a 45gr Topre don't give up because 55gr are completely another story. If you like 45gr instead, well you are just half way to heaven.

I don't know what you're on, but it's impossible to buy a 2.92 gram (or 45 grain) or 3.56 gram (55 grain) keyboard anywhere in existence. Please do some research.

sorry, in Italy we abbreviate grams with gr

[Linkbane]

the fact is that you spent $250 in a keyboard and you almost feel obliged to like it. What I'm saying is that if you didn't like a 45gr Topre don't give up because 55gr are completely another story. If you like 45gr instead, well you are just half way to heaven.

I don't know what you're on, but it's impossible to buy a 2.92 gram (or 45 grain) or 3.56 gram (55 grain) keyboard anywhere in existence. Please do some research.

sorry, in Italy we abbreviate grams with gr

Oh, sorry about that. 
Foreign cultures and all. 

[MJ45]

the fact is that you spent $250 in a keyboard and you almost feel obliged to like it. What I'm saying is that if you didn't like a 45gr Topre don't give up because 55gr are completely another story. If you like 45gr instead, well you are just half way to heaven.

I don't know what you're on, but it's impossible to buy a 2.92 gram (or 45 grain) or 3.56 gram (55 grain) keyboard anywhere in existence. Please do some research.

sorry, in Italy we abbreviate grams with gr

Oh, sorry about that. 
Foreign cultures and all. 

Do your research first! what are you on?

[Linkbane]

the fact is that you spent $250 in a keyboard and you almost feel obliged to like it. What I'm saying is that if you didn't like a 45gr Topre don't give up because 55gr are completely another story. If you like 45gr instead, well you are just half way to heaven.

I don't know what you're on, but it's impossible to buy a 2.92 gram (or 45 grain) or 3.56 gram (55 grain) keyboard anywhere in existence. Please do some research.

sorry, in Italy we abbreviate grams with gr

Oh, sorry about that. 
Foreign cultures and all. 

Do your research first! what are you on?

Something which makes people unable to recognize jokes, sadly.

[Novus]

the fact is that you spent $250 in a keyboard and you almost feel obliged to like it. What I'm saying is that if you didn't like a 45gr Topre don't give up because 55gr are completely another story. If you like 45gr instead, well you are just half way to heaven.

I don't know what you're on, but it's impossible to buy a 2.92 gram (or 45 grain) or 3.56 gram (55 grain) keyboard anywhere in existence. Please do some research.

sorry, in Italy we abbreviate grams with gr

Oh, sorry about that. 
Foreign cultures and all. 

Do your research first! what are you on?

Something which makes people unable to recognize jokes, sadly.

Jokes?
No it's about science! Stick to the SI g.
By the by, I stumbled onto this:


^That was a joke btw ( a really bad one :/ )

[spuriousgeorge]

Hey, thanks for the videos!

Yeah, the spacebar thing seems like an anomaly, with most people reporting no issues with it. (Besides the ABS, of course.)

[Elrick]

Yeah, the spacebar thing seems like an anomaly, with most people reporting no issues with it. (Besides the ABS, of course.)

I've got 3 Realforces and I had to lube all 3 with some of that EK gel to get rid of that tinny noise when the space bar gets pressed.  I guess that's the factory for you, make sure every other key is quiet but the space bar.

Also when you first lift the space bar off the keyboard, watch where the center spring goes because when I first did it, it popped off onto the floor and bounced away.  Took me several minutes to find the beggar.  Stupid design putting a large spring in the center of the key with no support of silicone surrounding it.

[spuriousgeorge]

Thanks for the advice, Elrick! Did you use the high- or the low-viscosity lube?

[quickcrx702]

Great report the1onewolf, thanks for sharing.

my opinion on topre is that... you can't tell you have really tried Topre until you tried 55gr Topre.

I have a 55gr realforce and a 45gr Leopold (and have tried a HHKB). Guys, once you get used to the 55gr you really can't type on anything different.

The force difference is barely noticeable, the fact is that the 55gr are snappier and faster to bottom up. It's all another kind of feeling, I reached the point where I really can't stand 45gr topres, I find them smooshy and boring, but I totally love 55gr topres.

YMMV

I agree as someone who also has a 45g and 55g uniform.  The 45g is nice, but the 55g is amazing.  It's only a 10g difference, but it actually makes the 55g feel much more tactile to me than a Buckling Spring or MX Blue, while at the same time retaining all of the smoothness after the activation point.  Make your next purchase a 55g, you won't be sorry.

[demik]

Great report the1onewolf, thanks for sharing.

my opinion on topre is that... you can't tell you have really tried Topre until you tried 55gr Topre.

I have a 55gr realforce and a 45gr Leopold (and have tried a HHKB). Guys, once you get used to the 55gr you really can't type on anything different.

The force difference is barely noticeable, the fact is that the 55gr are snappier and faster to bottom up. It's all another kind of feeling, I reached the point where I really can't stand 45gr topres, I find them smooshy and boring, but I totally love 55gr topres.

YMMV

there is truly no better switch than 55g topre. well, at least in my opinion. the 199 55g RF on EK is very tempting.. but i can't afford it right now and it would just be so i can transplant the domes/springs onto my hhkb anyway.

[1pq]

Great report the1onewolf, thanks for sharing.

my opinion on topre is that... you can't tell you have really tried Topre until you tried 55gr Topre.

I have a 55gr realforce and a 45gr Leopold (and have tried a HHKB). Guys, once you get used to the 55gr you really can't type on anything different.

The force difference is barely noticeable, the fact is that the 55gr are snappier and faster to bottom up. It's all another kind of feeling, I reached the point where I really can't stand 45gr topres, I find them smooshy and boring, but I totally love 55gr topres.

YMMV

I see in your sig that the FC660C is one of your daily drivers. Is this just outdated, or did you mod your 660C to 55g?

[Elrick]

Thanks for the advice, Elrick! Did you use the high- or the low-viscosity lube?

There are only 2 types that they sell at EK, I just used the Red Coloured Tube (EK MechLube 2 - low viscosity) with all that white/milky looking gel-paste.  Funny, it looks like spunk when you shoot it onto your keyboard  .

[Matt3o]

I see in your sig that the FC660C is one of your daily drivers. Is this just outdated, or did you mod your 660C to 55g?

outdated (and I'm modding it to 55g). daily driver now is a realforce 55g uniform that will be raped of the 55g

[Elrick]

daily driver now is a realforce 55g uniform that will be raped of the 55g

Show us pics of the rape, or it never happened  .

[Matt3o]

daily driver now is a realforce 55g uniform that will be raped of the 55g

Show us pics of the rape, or it never happened  .

this first http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54222.msg1218646#msg1218646

[daetsid]

can't wait to see the CM Topre's.

[Elrick]

can't wait to see the CM Topre's.

You and half of Geekhack here  .

[Rena]

So I've been on the edge of buying a Realforce 87U for a while now, and I had almost decided on the 30-45g board when I noticed some users in this thread and another hailing the 55g board over the 30-45g boards.

I was never a fan of the heavier switches, but then again my experience resides only in cherry MX switches and buckling spring. Would I have made a mistake buying the 45g board, or is it not simply a matter of preference?

Also, thank you for the review. It seems like the realforce is worth the money now, but I just cant decide on which one.

[quickcrx702]

So I've been on the edge of buying a Realforce 87U for a while now, and I had almost decided on the 30-45g board when I noticed some users in this thread and another hailing the 55g board over the 30-45g boards.

I was never a fan of the heavier switches, but then again my experience resides only in cherry MX switches and buckling spring. Would I have made a mistake buying the 45g board, or is it not simply a matter of preference?

Also, thank you for the review. It seems like the realforce is worth the money now, but I just cant decide on which one.

If you like MX red, then the lower weighted Topre's are for you.  Many people here love both.  If on the other hand you like Blue or BS, 55g would be a better choice.  To me the 55g feels the most tactile, then is very smooth to bottom out.  The 45g is very smooth, it just lacks any tactility for heavier typists.  If you type lightly, you will notice it a bit.  I really don't like MX red, which the 45g would be if it lived in the Cherry world, and prefer blues.  In my opinion, the 45g feels even less tactile than browns, which you also can't feel the bump when typing heavily and/or quickly.  I just can't stand the high pitched noise blues make, it's cool at first, but after typing for a while it gets annoying.

[Rena]

So I've been on the edge of buying a Realforce 87U for a while now, and I had almost decided on the 30-45g board when I noticed some users in this thread and another hailing the 55g board over the 30-45g boards.

I was never a fan of the heavier switches, but then again my experience resides only in cherry MX switches and buckling spring. Would I have made a mistake buying the 45g board, or is it not simply a matter of preference?

Also, thank you for the review. It seems like the realforce is worth the money now, but I just cant decide on which one.

If you like MX red, then the lower weighted Topre's are for you.  Many people here love both.  If on the other hand you like Blue or BS, 55g would be a better choice.  To me the 55g feels the most tactile, then is very smooth to bottom out.  The 45g is very smooth, it just lacks any tactility for heavier typists.  If you type lightly, you will notice it a bit.  I really don't like MX red, which the 45g would be if it lived in the Cherry world, and prefer blues.  In my opinion, the 45g feels even less tactile than browns, which you also can't feel the bump when typing heavily and/or quickly.  I just can't stand the high pitched noise blues make, it's cool at first, but after typing for a while it gets annoying.

I've only used browns, but given the technical details of the reds I can imagine what they would feel like (maybe). I've been also interested in using other cherry switches, and maybe it would be better to try out red, or blue, or clear switches before I make a decision on which topre board I would like better? From what you've told me I would probably be more accustomed to the 45g keys based off my experience, yet I've never really had much of a chance with the heavier of the switches so I have no idea if I would prefer those instead.

[Hull]

This was so romantic! Undressing her carefully, killing her softly with your fingertips.

I played this song while looking at your pictures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ighEKw6RDBQ

[Polymer]

I've only used browns, but given the technical details of the reds I can imagine what they would feel like (maybe). I've been also interested in using other cherry switches, and maybe it would be better to try out red, or blue, or clear switches before I make a decision on which topre board I would like better? From what you've told me I would probably be more accustomed to the 45g keys based off my experience, yet I've never really had much of a chance with the heavier of the switches so I have no idea if I would prefer those instead.

Just as another opinion..Reds are SIGNIFICANTLY lighter than 45g Topre.  People keep looking at actuation force..which isn't really that important...

Topre 45g will require that to overcome the bump right at the start so no momentum.  Reds will allow to you move them around 33-35g and won't actually actuate until 45g but by then you are halfway down.  The force curve for Topre is also different so the amount of weight/time/distance it travels is different. 



Browns also actuate at 45g but take a bit more force to overcome the bump.  They will probably feel the closest in terms of overall force to move the switch as 45g Topre...To me HHKB 45g takes slightly more effort than Cherry MX Browns...RF 45g is pretty similar (I have no idea why HHKB 45g feels a bit heavier).   

[quickcrx702]

(I have no idea why HHKB 45g feels a bit heavier).   

The "bump" is at the top, vs more towards the middle.

[Polymer]

(I have no idea why HHKB 45g feels a bit heavier).   

The "bump" is at the top, vs more towards the middle.

I'm referring to HHKB 45g vs. RF 45g.  For whatever reason the HHKB seems a bit stiffer..not 55g RF stiff but somewhere between the RF 55 and 45g.  I don't think I'm the only one that feels that way either as I've seen other people comment on it..

[Matt3o]

a very well informed person told me that stiffness of topre membranes varies based on the weather/temperature/humidity they are manufactured. might be just urban legend, but that comes from a Topre geek, so I tend to believe him.

[Linkbane]

(I have no idea why HHKB 45g feels a bit heavier).   

The "bump" is at the top, vs more towards the middle.

I'm referring to HHKB 45g vs. RF 45g.  For whatever reason the HHKB seems a bit stiffer..not 55g RF stiff but somewhere between the RF 55 and 45g.  I don't think I'm the only one that feels that way either as I've seen other people comment on it..

Very likely that it's the mount causing that. If I'm not mistaken, the HHKB is case-mount while the RF is plate-mount.

[Polymer]

Very likely that it's the mount causing that. If I'm not mistaken, the HHKB is case-mount while the RF is plate-mount.

Yeap..that is the only thing I can think of as well but I don't understand why that is the case...It isn't just a typing feel..if I select single keys and slowly press one down they are generally a bit stiffer than the ones on my RFs...it is just odd...It was almost to the point where my first RF felt almost linear (which is why I can understand why 55g fans think 45g can feel that way). 

[Emospence]

Now to get a 55g