[Orders closed] Aluminum poker case

[oneproduct]

Lets see how the numbers turn out next week. We're only missing like 7 more and we could go with this. I'm not sure how many more we'd even get after the Pure came out because I have a feeling that most people would just buy the official aluminum case for it. I'm off to bed for now.

I still like the idea of guessing on the two changes that the Pure brings. The new screw is in between G and H so that tells me where it is horizontally and the hole for it on the PCB has a lot of vertical play. I can see where the IC is on the pictures, can see about how big it is relative to the IC on the poker, and by cutting a bit bigger than needed I think it would be easy to account for it.

But again, we have a week to think things over so I won't do anything hasty for now.

[net2522]

The production line of pure is Long~~. Is it possible to make this case to be universal by change only the bottom plate?

[video=youtube;qjjYCRJ-e20]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qjjYCRJ-e20[/video]

[mkawa]

yah actually that's a good point, especially since i'd rather that plate be polymer anyway...

let's think about this as the week goes on...

[net2522]

most of them actually Wait & See.
 I'm sure the final product(oneproduct ) will be close to imsto one(or even better):clap2:

[metafour]

The only reason I'm on the fence about actually ordering one is because of the extra costs that are getting tacked on that bring the cost up REAL quick. The price went from $64 to $80 in the blink of an eye and then we still have to factor in shipping costs as well as possibly the anodizing/powdercoating. All said and done it seems like one case is going to cost >$100 which is a significant increase from that starting price of $64.

I also have to consider that I have more than one Poker and what is going to happen if I only order one case; will I just never use the other one as a result of not having one of these for it.

[morgofborg]

The only reason I'm on the fence about actually ordering one is because of the extra costs that are getting tacked on that bring the cost up REAL quick. The price went from $64 to $80 in the blink of an eye and then we still have to factor in shipping costs as well as possibly the anodizing/powdercoating. All said and done it seems like one case is going to cost >$100 which is a significant increase from that starting price of $64.

I also have to consider that I have more than one Poker and what is going to happen if I only order one case; will I just never use the other one as a result of not having one of these for it.

You'll just have to buy 2 like I am lol.

But you have to remember that that $64 is what the guy told oneproduct was the cost to produce one. You don't run a business selling something at cost. But in the end, you are correct. It is the $80 for the case, then shipping from Canada, then the cost of finish, then the cost of shipping from mkawa. So yeah, definitely going to be over $100 each after its all said and done I think.

[mkawa]

remember that the CNC'd version of this cost twice as much.

[metafour]

remember that the CNC'd version of this cost twice as much.

I thought that ended up at ~$130?

Edit: looks like it was 139+35 shipping.

[demik]

The extra 16 came from parts + supplies. He explains it all, so I don't know where you got that it came in a blink of an eye.

[metafour]

The extra 16 came from parts + supplies. He explains it all, so I don't know where you got that it came in a blink of an eye.

Seriously? At no point did I suggest it was unaccounted for in the OP's explanation but thanks for not understanding the point of my figurative language and being so cynical. I was offering my explanation of why I'm on the fence about the conversion from Interest Check to order as a way to better understand why the total order count might be as low as it is.

Damn, no need to be so sensitive...

[morgofborg]

Seriously? At no point did I suggest it was unaccounted for in the OP's explanation but thanks for not understanding the point of my figurative language and being so cynical. I was offering my explanation of why I'm on the fence about the conversion from Interest Check to order as a way to better understand why the total order count might be as low as it is.

Damn, no need to be so sensitive...

I hear ya. I remember that there were at least a few people that said they were in if it was under $100, and it does look like after everything it will be more than that, so that might be why some of the people bailed out.

[demik]

We must have two definitions for the word sensitive if you thought that was "sensitive". Your reply, on the other hand, seemed like I touched a nerve.

[mkawa]

if you're on the fence you're on the fence, but i think the price is pretty shockingly reasonable. go ahead and model up a case equivalent to imsto's and send it to a machine shop to have a few milled. they'll give you a price much much higher than this.

although this does remind me that my idea with the simple U-bend might be a few bucks cheaper -- cheap enough to recover our order bulk? who knows? it seems a lot of the people who were adamant that they wanted something that was exactly like imsto's now no longer want one for a price much less than imsto's...

[oneproduct]

I think that me mentioning the $64 figure at all may have been a bad move on my part, I should have just mentioned the $64+tax which is $73.50, which is the real base cost. Then I was just bumping that to $80 for the rest of the things I need + about $2 so that when I collect from about 40 people I'd have $80 to buy a case for myself. I was trying to be transparent about everything but as you mentioned, then it looks like there's a bunch of costs being tacked on. Shipping from Canada to US should not add much to the cost of local shipping, because as detailed in the first post, maybe it will cost me $100 to send 30 cases to the US (assuming we get those kinds of numbers) so you only end up paying $3.33 extra for the non-local shipping part.

The shipping costs for imsto's case was $35, which is more than what shipping will cost for these (for US and Canadians at least), so if anything I could use that as an argument in my favor. But ignoring that, we're looking at $80 vs $140, then mkawa said that anodizing costs $10-20 so taking the midpoint it's about $95 vs $140. You also have to consider that imsto only had something like 14 cases to sell, so even if it was a good deal for the cost, it simply wasn't available. And though the cases I make will definitely not look as nice as imsto's, the PCB will be better mounted as there is a whole metal plate dedicated to the PCB instead of just having the PCB sit on 5 nuts that were welded onto the base of the case. This dedicated plate also makes the whole thing heavier (which everyone except mkawa likes

So anyways, it's cheaper by a fair amount, available in whatever quantities we need, and not strictly worse in terms of function, only form. I'm not saying any of this out of anger though, so no worries. Geekhackers are picky people as several other forum members often point out (SP's QC, Filco arrows being slightly off, etc) so I can understand people not wanting a metal case that's less than perfect.

Let's not fight about it though, people who aren't interested have their reasons which are perfectly legitimate. Don't make me post more pictures of friendly ponies!

[boost]

pm'ed and in for 1 case

[oneproduct]

And though the cases I make will definitely not look as nice as imsto's, the PCB will be better mounted as there is a whole metal plate dedicated to the PCB instead of just having the PCB sit on 5 nuts that were welded onto the base of the case.

On that topic actually, if mkawa or anybody else knows a good source to get some nicer insulating material it would be welcome. The PVC I have now works fine and is cheap, but it has a checkered pattern rather than being a solid sheet, so there's some risk when installing the insulation that it doesn't perfectly insulate. If you mess up though and there is a short circuit it doesn't cause any damage and once you do install the insulation and it works it will always work. This is what happened to me. The first time I put it in between I didn't break contact completely so the keyboard's LEDs would turn on when you plugged it in but you couldn't type. I quickly just fiddled with it and repositioned the insulation and then it's been fine ever since.

So not a huge issue, but this checkered stuff that both imsto and I used would be better as a solid sheet. But since I'd be looking for something nicer I might as well go all out if anybody can find me a good place to order something else. The material has to have some flexibility to it though because all those solder points from where the switches are attached need to be able to sink into the material, so a tough sheet or rubber wouldn't work for example.

[dippingriz]

So it's time for a command decision.  Are you making poker cases or are you making poker/pure cases?  Powerdercoat or bare?

[oneproduct]

I still have to go check the place that's near me for coloring. Since you are in the US though if I don't get them colored then mkawa said he has a place. I'd like to make them poker/pure cases since I think it would be an easy adjustment, but I can't make a decision without consulting you people first, especially since many people have already paid, but I doubt that anyone would really complain that their case would be compatible with a pure in addition to a poker.

Also, since I don't have a pure on hand, it would be guesswork, but I don't think it's really that hard to guess based on the pictures we have available of the pure: one extra screw between G and H which should be no problem and then a new IC along the bottom which I'm almost certain I could accommodate for by cutting a hole that's more generous than it would strictly need to be. The other option would be waiting until somebody got a pure but that would add a few extra weeks to this which I think most people would prefer not to have. Not too many people have spoken up about this, I sort of wish they would. Mkawa has been very vocal about things which is great, but for this particular consideration his vocal comment is against doing it or at least not until the pure comes out. I'd really love to have other people's opinions. I'd like to make it compatible for both personally but even if I do, I wouldn't be able to guarantee that the Pure will actually work with it until someone bought one later and tried to use this case with it.

Edit: I guess what's important is if I said that I'm going to try to make it compatible with the pure, how many people would actually NOT order because of that?

[dippingriz]

I agree the guesswork on the Pure would not be that hard to do.  I wouldn't mind a little guesswork for a chance to work with the Pure..but I haven't paid for compatibility with the Pure.  I paid for this to be compatible with the Poker as the tittle of the thread says.  If people want to by a custom case for the Pure, then a separate run should be entertained specifically for that.  This is about the Poker.  

As far as powdercoating goes:
I would prefer the option of shipped coated or bare.


"Edit: I guess what's important is if I said that I'm going to try to make it compatible with the pure, how many people would actually NOT order because of that?"

It's not that I woundn't order it because of that.  It's due to the unknown shipping date of the Pure.  How long is it going to take before you can get your hands on a Pure and make the adjustments?  I don't want to drag out a Poker Case so it will be compatible with the pure.

[emptythecache]

I'd love for it to be pure compatible, but if not, I'll just make sure you get a pure that comes with an aluminum case when I get one. I've got a poker on the way anyway.

edit: i don't want the goal of pure compatibility to delay it either. So my vote is guess at the hole. if you are wrong, it will not affect the finished product in any meaningful way.

[mkawa]

where's the photo you've seen of the pure board?

also oneproduct if you can give me a dxf of the mounting plate i can talk to a plastics place.

[morgofborg]

Yea, having it be compatible with the pure certainly wouldn't make me not buy it. I just don't like the sound of a few week delay. I'm an American of the 21st century, I hate waiting for things and want immediate gratification lol.

[emptythecache]

Yea, having it be compatible with the pure certainly wouldn't make me not buy it. I just don't like the sound of a few week delay. I'm an American of the 21st century, I hate waiting for things and want immediate gratification lol.

I'm an American Amazon Prime subscriber, and frankly anything taking longer than two days to reach my doorstep is unacceptable.

[net2522]

where's the photo you've seen of the pure board?

also oneproduct if you can give me a dxf of the mounting plate i can talk to a plastics place.

may be http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dkbtalking%2Brace%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D965%26prmd%3Dimvns&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-TW&u=http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/56001&usg=ALkJrhjjMccna_VZK6luYUu3_sKISTo36Q
           http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dkbtalking%2Brace%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D965%26prmd%3Dimvns&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-TW&u=http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/55343&usg=ALkJrhihq6f6LYtDVCAHdVqmSO9Bc-bwfQ

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 45173[/ATTACH]

[oneproduct]

Here's where I linked the pictures of the Pure: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?28730-Taking-payments-Aluminum-poker-case&p=551498&viewfull=1#post551498

dxf stands for what precisely? I'll try to get you the measurements in any case.

--

Okay, well I won't delay this case for the Pure then, but I think I'll go ahead and try to tap an extra screw hole in the middle and cut out another chunk for where the new IC is in the picture.

Also, if anybody is really that worried about anything, feel free to about it either here or with me in PMs and if worse comes to worse I can always refund your money on paypal.

[mkawa]

actually i think you're right, we should be able to make it compatible based on these pictures (although keep in mind this may not be the final board design, i suspect it's close enough). i'll pull my poker apart tonight and take some measurements and pictures

any kind of measurement accurate image file of the plate design (once we get these changes made) will be fine. just something i can send over to a plastics place to get a quote.

[morgofborg]

 I think I'll go ahead and try to tap an extra screw hole in the middle and cut out another chunk for where the new IC is in the picture.

Just go easy when you talk about taking out chunks lol. Easy to take away, hard to put back; if you know what I mean...

[mkawa]

oh, if i could get files for the outer big too that would help the plating place (although the more i think about it the more i think you should just get plating/finishing done locally)

[morgofborg]

oh, if i could get files for the outer big too that would help the plating place (although the more i think about it the more i think you should just get plating/finishing done locally)

Yea, that was my thought. I mean if the insert is being tacked in. That would be something you would then have to get undone, the get the finish put on, then redo before you shipped out to us.

[mkawa]

well, they can powdercoat over the tacking, but it won't look as clean. anyway it simplifies everything if oneproduct has it done, and significantly simplifies logistics

[oneproduct]

I'll see what I can do, but can't promise anything. Keep in mind that if I can do coloring over here, I'm going to try to keep things easiest for the metalworking place. Things are being done by hand in a sort of assembly line fashion with all the work being done at once. If I have to get the two separate pieces made and then colored and then bring them back at a later time to have them tacked together, that would probably change what it costs.

So if some coloring is done, it would be with the two pieces stuck together, unless you specifically told me you don't want the two pieces attached and will worry about attaching them on your own (a few people have asked for this in their PMs). I don't know if having the two pieces together would cause a problem for the coloring place, but just to bring up possibilities, in the worse case scenario perhaps they wouldn't be able to color the inside part of the case, which, if hypothetically was the case, I think would still be fine since it's not visible anyways with the keyboard inside. Anyways, I'll try to get more information about the coloring... hmm... maybe this Friday.

mkawa, if you are going to be looking at the underside of your poker, could you give me measurements in millimeters from the center of the top left screw hole (with the bottom side of the PCB facing up; this would be the screw hole that has no horizontal play to it) to the midpoint of G and H? I'll be doing so as well but it would be nice to have a second set of measurements for confirmation. I would need both a horizontal and vertical distance of course. If you're feeling ambitious maybe you could even offer a guess for the chunk that would need to be cut out for the Pure's second IC near the spacebar, with measurements again given relative that same screw hole. I like using that screw hole for relative measurements because of how absolute it is.

[mkawa]

maybe we should revisit not having them tacked then...

if that the full set of measurements that you want? i'll take it apart tonight (using it right now lol)

[oneproduct]

I think tacking is still the better way to go, but if anybody would prefer to not have theirs tacked at all and then worry about attaching the two pieces together on their own later (by gluing; or I could do this for them afterwards if needed) then it's no problem for me to have some tacked and some not. But anyways, this was just a hypothesis, for all I know there's not going to be any problem having them colored while attached. I'll let you know for sure when I go and take a peek.

And yup, those are the only two new measurements I would need. Would just like to have someone else to compare to when I take my own to see if I'm about right.

[mkawa]

what do you think are the advantages of having them tacked? it's not like these plates are going to see enough shear force to rip glue, and the tacking is usually visible even under paint since it leaves a little lump of solder...

[dippingriz]

The tack should be under the board and hardly noticeable.  Are they mig tacking aluminium?

[mkawa]

actually you make a good point. i assumed the tacking would be on the side of the plate somewhere. maybe it won't be? probably important information.

[oneproduct]

Yea, there's no way that you'd really rip the metal insert from glue, which is why that is a fine alternative. It's a bit harder to ensure that gluing is done properly compared to tacking, but other than that and a more "professional" air to it, there's nothing really I suppose. But in any case, the tacking would only be on the inside of the case, so it's not something that you would see with a keyboard sitting in it. If people are worried about what the paint job looks like on the inside of their case which can't even be seen, well... I think that's just a bit too much.

actually you make a good point. i assumed the tacking would be on the side of the plate somewhere. maybe it won't be? probably important information.

What they do is that they cut little lines out of the metal insert and then tack from there to the bottom of the case, so there's nothing along the edges, it would all be hidden underneath the keyboard.

Are they mig tacking aluminium?

I'm not really aware of the different ways of tacking, this isn't really my specialty. I'd have to ask.

[dippingriz]

I'm not trying to insult anybody's intelligence but I'll try to explain what I'm saying.  Tacking (with MiG) is like putting a setting nail or temporary hold on two pieces of metal.  It's typically done so that you can then lay a seem to connect two pieces of metal with another piece of metal.  MiG is not the easiest on aluminium.

Here: So everybody knows what a tack is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50XejJZ9Dw4

[metafour]

Order sent via PM and Payment sent as well. End of line.

[mkawa]

yay meta

you're not insulting anyone's intelligence dipping. none of us are very familiar with machineshops here (except for a few people who aren't participating)

[zzspectrez]

Although TIG is the go to for aluminum I have seen good MIG welds of aluminum. I have not tried aluminum on my MIG-Welder yet it is my understanding as long as you are using the proper shielding gas and enough flow of gas to prevent contamination of the weld you are golden. It obviously doesnt look as good as weld done by an experienced TIG welder.

Plus a few well placed tack welds are probably all you need considering what we are welding. A proper tack weld DOES have proper penetration of both metals.

[dippingriz]

^ Word.  I've tried MiG with aluminium with little success (for S's and G's).  A tack should be fine though.  Back to cases, I would like to have us all on one page.

[oneproduct]

Bumping this for the weekend. Seems like lots of people just bought pokers from both a group buy here and the classifieds so maybe they'd be interested. Probably just going to keep this open until Friday before I submit the order.

[h2oxide]

I might consider buying this if there's ever a second GB as I like to know exactly what I'm paying for before I buy it

[oneproduct]

This will be the only one from me sadly, especially since after this I really don't think there would be enough people with Pokers left to generate sufficient order sizes. I understand everyone's concerns though, and trust me, I'm the most concerned. I want to try to make sure everybody is happy and would feel really bad if I somehow messed up and became hated on geekhack.

Hope this attempt to offer a service to the community doesn't bite me in the ass!

Edit: I believe there will be a second prototype for me to look at since they changed the design a bit. If I can get some pictures/video of it before the order date I'll put it up to help people decide if they want to jump in, but if not I'll probably order a few extra (probably no more than 3).

[h2oxide]

I don't see how anyone could hate you over this? Its a generous thing you're doing, but just not everyone's cuppa.

[oneproduct]

Well, I'm just worried that people won't be happy with the end product and will feel cheated of their money. I swear I'm going to die of stress each time I read through all the little comments for changes or additions that people want. :s

I'm just trying to offer a simple metal case lol.

[h2oxide]

Well, I'm just worried that people won't be happy with the end product and will feel cheated of their money. I swear I'm going to die of stress each time I read through all the little comments for changes or additions that people want. :s

I'm just trying to offer a simple metal case lol.

Haha calm down. People should know by now its not perfect, and by paying they are taking the gamble. If they don't like it they can sell it to someone else who appreciates it more.

[mkawa]

got 2 pokers in marc's gb. looks like i'll need 3 cases.

[digitalleftovers]

Any updates on powder coating availability?