Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 1236613 times)

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Offline SubGothius

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1550 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 00:19:48 »
I am about to join the Massdrop GB myself, and I am a bit confused about the mounting of the switches:
As I understand it, the design of the keyboard supports both, PCB- and plate-mounted switches. What are we going to get? From the assembly instructions [1] I get that we have to solder the switches to the PCB - i.e. we will get switches with PCB-mounting pins.

However, dorkvader wrote in his mass email:
The PCB supports PCB mounted switches. The mounting plate supports phantom-style easy switch removal.

What exactly does that mean now? Why would I not be able to get the full-hand and classic case and just swap the PCB in between without de-soldering?

EDIT: Also, what color do those LEDs have at the moment? I couldn't find anything on Massdrop's page pertaining to color.

1: https://www.massdrop.com/dox-ergo.php
As the profosist said, Massdrop will have plate mounted switches. Another member (I believe it was rkinze) said that even with the acrylic plate, the switches should be pretty sturdy, as the stabilizing pins on the PCB-mount switches serve to help orient the switch (so it can't twist). I haven't seen anyone make claims to typing feel though.

So the Massdrop switches will not have mounting pins, but that's okay if you plan to use the plate, which is included in the $200 full kit (and required for the case, as it is an integral part)

To explain my quote:
In mist plate mounted keyboards, there is no "room" to unclip the top of the switch housing in the mounting plate. To replace a switch, you need to desolder it. If you want to change springs or stems you need to desolder. This plate supports the removal of the switch tops without desoldering (Room has been made in the mounting plate for the switches to unclip) so should you want to replace a defective switch, or change springs or whatever, you can do that.

I am by no means certain, but I'm fairly sure that you'd need to desolder to swap the PCB into a different case like that, though it might be possible to detach the switch-bottoms from the mounting plate after soldering, it' certainly won't be easy.

About the LED's I haven't checked, but I think I read somewhere (on DT) that they are red.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken about something here, I get a little fuzzy this late at night sometimes.

If you want to swap between classic and full-hand cases, you'd want to mount the switches in a classic switch plate and solder them into the PCB, then you could always swap that entire "layer", plate and switches and PCB altogether, into the top/bottom layers of the full-hand case, though you'd at least need to add some spacers to the screw holes along the near edge where the full-hand case goes beyond the classic case boundaries.

To clarify the matter of PCB-mount vs. plate-mount switches, they both have circuit pins that get soldered into the PCB. The PCB-mount type just has two extra, plastic pins moulded into the switch body, which fit into corresponding holes in the PCB. This primarily maintains alignment of the switch square with the other switches, but I think the plastic PCB-mount pins are also long enough to be melted down like a rivet head. Anyway, those mounting pins aren't necessary with a plate mount, as the plate maintains switch alignment and takes the brunt of keying force, so the PCB is pretty much just "hanging" off the switches by the solder points without taking any real force. The ErgoDox plate also has cutaways in the switch mounting holes that allow removal of the switch tops without desoldering the switches, e.g. if you want to swap in different springs or stems to effectively turn them into a different type of MX switch.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline Zalusithix

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1551 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 00:58:08 »
Be careful with your ergodox if you order a metal case.  I am not responsible for any damage :-)
Anodizing takes care of any potential conductivity problems, and is what I plan on doing with my aluminum version. Other planned mods include countersinking the holes for 100 degree black oxidized torx screws, and relocating the LEDs so they show up through the frame itself. I figure the acrylic is too weak to reliably take the countersinking (heck, even the aluminum might be too thin). As for the LEDs, the acrylic would show any relocation attempts and ruin the clean looks. It might be harder to work with, but aluminum just gives more options for customizing both by being stronger and being opaque so the mods and hack jobs don't show through.

All that will take some time though, so I also will be making an acrylic version to start off with while the aluminum one slowly comes together.

Offline L!athus

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1552 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 06:06:17 »
Acrylic is non-conductive. The only thing you need to take note is statics. Afaik, the components will be grounded when its connected to the pc via usb. Pc doesn't need to be power on, just need to have it plugged into the power socket outlet to complete grounding by the PSU. I would probably ground the components first just to play safe for either acrylic or aluminium case.

Offline IanM

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1553 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 08:20:39 »
I'm extremely late to this and there's only a few hours to go on the massdrop, as time is pressing would anybody be able to answer any of my questions? Thanks!

1) is there going to be an EU group buy for this?

2) how long is the hand rest on the full length case? (or the length of the whole thing from front to back?

3) are backlit keys an option with this PCB?

4) does the controller support 500hz/1000hz ultrapolling for gamers?

5) if no ultrapolling what might be required to implement this as a feature? would it require an alternative controller?

Offline regack

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1554 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 10:10:51 »
I'm extremely late to this and there's only a few hours to go on the massdrop, as time is pressing would anybody be able to answer any of my questions? Thanks!

1) is there going to be an EU group buy for this?
2) how long is the hand rest on the full length case? (or the length of the whole thing from front to back?
3) are backlit keys an option with this PCB?
4) does the controller support 500hz/1000hz ultrapolling for gamers?
5) if no ultrapolling what might be required to implement this as a feature? would it require an alternative controller?

1) There was some discussion by 7bit on Deskthority, but nothing definitive
2)
3) No support for backlighting on the PCB
4) http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_keyboard.html <-- see 'Bandwidth' at the bottom of the page
5)

Offline sordna

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1555 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 10:31:47 »
Careful when drilling acrylic.  It can easily crack.  And the drill bit can bite into the material and spin the whole piece out of control.

I've been using these kind of bits to make 30mm diameter holes in my Kinesis Advantage keyboards, to fit arcade buttons. Will it work on the ErgoDox acrylic case? I was assuming it will work, at least much more easily than on the aluminum case, but now you got me worried! What's your advice?

Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Zalusithix

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1556 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 12:01:10 »
Adding on to Regack's reply:

2) "Each side is roughly 3.5lb, 9" tall and 8.5" wide at the widest point." Via the MD comment section (weight is for the aluminum version).

4/5) Leaving aside the HID limitations, the firmware running on the Teensy doesn't perform the scans fast enough to do it anyhow. Not that it really matters... Gamers don't need that level of speed - they just like to think they do. The human body can't respond that quickly, and games will be going at most 120fps on modern gaming monitors. Thus anything beyond 120Hz is overkill. You can't react faster than the screen updates, and at this speed, you can't even react as fast as the screen updates. N-Key rollover would be far more useful than pointlessly fast polling on a keyboard. (And no, the keyboard doesn't have N-Key rollover either as per HID specs.)

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1557 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 12:27:56 »
(And no, the keyboard doesn't have N-Key rollover either as per HID specs.)

The firmware may not, but the KB and controller are capable of it.  :)
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
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Offline Zalusithix

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1558 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 12:47:20 »
(And no, the keyboard doesn't have N-Key rollover either as per HID specs.)

The firmware may not, but the KB and controller are capable of it.  :)

Yeah, and the firmware very well might support it in the future. :) As of right now though, it's pretty a much bog standard USB keyboard with extensive layering capabilities. Add in the macro capabilities later on, and it'll meet the vast majority of usage case scenarios. From there, things like media keys / mouse emulation / n-key are just icing on the proverbial cake.

Offline Zalusithix

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1559 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 13:07:24 »
Update from MD in regards to the metal case / PCB contact issue:
Quote
We will be supplying mylar sheets for insulation between the metal casing and the PCB.

Offline sordna

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1560 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 14:09:50 »
NKRO? No thanks, I don't want NKRO and avoid keyboards with it. Glad this keyboard does not have it. I much rather prefer a keyboard that works on all computers without issues. 6KRO is my preferred capability.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Zalusithix

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1561 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 16:30:12 »
I don't think it would ever be the default firmware due to complications with compatibility. Once everything else is done on the default HID spec firmware though, it could be an interesting offshoot project.

Offline ic07

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1562 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 19:08:10 »
Hasu's firmware has NKRO without special drivers on all major OSs, without giving up bios compatibility, IIRC. I think him and soarer had a thread about it at some point. And hasu's code is up on github (look for the tmk keyboard firmware), but I haven't had time to understand it yet...

Offline boli

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1563 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 06:32:29 »
Woot, I totally missed the ErgoDox group buy on massdrop. :eek: Would have gotten one for sure (more later if satisfactory).

Any ideas if/when the next round will be up? I'm only interested in a complete kit, not individual parts. Ideally including assembly, such as Profosists awesome assembly offer. Anyway, I requested a kit on MD so hopefully will get an email when/if it comes back.

That's what I get for doing other stuff for months (RC helicopters are fun too). ;)
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline kurplop

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1564 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 07:29:34 »
Careful when drilling acrylic.  It can easily crack.  And the drill bit can bite into the material and spin the whole piece out of control.

I've been using these kind of bits to make 30mm diameter holes in my Kinesis Advantage keyboards, to fit arcade buttons. Will it work on the ErgoDox acrylic case? I was assuming it will work, at least much more easily than on the aluminum case, but now you got me worried! What's your advice?

Show Image


You got me curious. I went out to the shop this morning and did some tests on different acrylic and polycarbonate sheets I had laying around. I used a step drill, hole saw, forstner bit and standard drill bit to test the drilling properties of each combination. I used a drill press to better control the consistancy of each combination. Unfortunately, most of the plastics were not labeled so my results have left me scratching my bald head regarding your question. When I used a slow speed, to minimize heat, and a slow feed rate, to minimize stress, I had consistently good results. It was also important to back up the sheet with wood to better prevent chipping on the underside.

The problem I had was identifying the plastics. The one that was labeled was Lucite Tuf. It is a modified acrylic and drilled as cooperatively as the polycarbonates. I have however in the past worked with acrylics that have cracked and chipped much more readily.

Conclusion.  I found that the hole saw and forstner bit each cut flawless holes even right next to the edges of the sheets. The step drill worked fine but I was able to crack the piece if I applied to much pressure. I don't think you will have a problem with the step drill if your careful but would recommend testing your method first on a similar piece of material if possible.

Offline Glissant

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1565 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 08:11:57 »
Sorry to ask this here, but does anyone know when they start charging for the orders? I don't see any information about the process after the "group buy" is over.

Offline Larken

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1566 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 08:33:38 »
I'm guessing here but I doubt they'd send in the orders for the pcb and cases straightaway given how they still have about 3 days before the pcb and case only buys are closed. So I'm guessing at least 3-4 days more before we hear anything regarding payment.

Before the group buy ended, I talked to one of their reps about fulfillment duration and they said after the orders are sent in, it would likely be about 2 weeks  before the items will be ready, 3 weeks if the schedule isn't met. Then they'll have to start sorting and packaging the items into kits and finally sending them out. Seeing the size of the order, I doubt we'll hear anything before a month is up.

Be aware this is just a guess from the bits of information I got here and there. Hopefully they would be able to give us a faster delivery time.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


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Offline sordna

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1567 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 08:52:18 »
Woot, I totally missed the ErgoDox group buy on massdrop. :eek: Would have gotten one for sure (more later if satisfactory).

Any ideas if/when the next round will be up? I'm only interested in a complete kit, not individual parts. Ideally including assembly, such as Profosists awesome assembly offer. Anyway, I requested a kit on MD so hopefully will get an email when/if it comes back.

Since they have group buys going on, for the various parts, that are not over yet, I suspect they _might_ be able to accommodate an order for a complete keyboard, so ask them. Even the Profosist's group buy still has 8 days to go.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1568 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 08:53:17 »
Conclusion.  I found that the hole saw and forstner bit each cut flawless holes even right next to the edges of the sheets. The step drill worked fine but I was able to crack the piece if I applied to much pressure. I don't think you will have a problem with the step drill if your careful but would recommend testing your method first on a similar piece of material if possible.

Thank you SO MUCH for your time to test these things out! It's extremely helpful!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline IanM

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1569 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 10:16:13 »
Conclusion.  I found that the hole saw and forstner bit each cut flawless holes even right next to the edges of the sheets.

For the sake of those that may not be prepared: Forstners and holesaws can be very troublesome to position and hold accurately if you're using a hand drill, so it's better to use a bench drill if you can when precision is needed. Piloted holesaws are slightly easier to use in a hand drill, but some arbour systems don't hold the saw perfectly rigid so the hole can still end up slightly larger than intended.

Offline sordna

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1570 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 10:20:36 »
Figures. Yeah, all I have is hand-held drills, hmm. Anyway, this page seems quite helpful for cutting/drilling acrylic, with great photos:

http://www.bcae1.com/plexi.htm
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline jedcred

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1571 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 11:28:20 »
I'm guessing here but I doubt they'd send in the orders for the pcb and cases straightaway given how they still have about 3 days before the pcb and case only buys are closed. So I'm guessing at least 3-4 days more before we hear anything regarding payment.

Before the group buy ended, I talked to one of their reps about fulfillment duration and they said after the orders are sent in, it would likely be about 2 weeks  before the items will be ready, 3 weeks if the schedule isn't met. Then they'll have to start sorting and packaging the items into kits and finally sending them out. Seeing the size of the order, I doubt we'll hear anything before a month is up.

Be aware this is just a guess from the bits of information I got here and there. Hopefully they would be able to give us a faster delivery time.

Any chance of reopening the group buy for the kit again (or having another), given the board and other part GBs are still going on?  I missed it by a day, geekhack notifications weren't getting to me for some reason for messages or this thread.  Sigh...

Also I'm considering just getting the case, pcb, keys, and keycaps, but at a rough guess that puts me at 196 (assuming I only need one set of keycaps and not two, that part wasn't clear on the MD page), plus the need for the teensy, i/o expander, leds, and diodes (with a handful of other small parts) plus shipping for all those things (sigh again...).  Am I missing anything?
Keyboards:
Filco tenkeyless with Cherry Blues
IBM Model M \'93
Razer Blackwidow x 2 (because parts)
Goldtouch Adjustable
Logitech MX 5500

Offline sordna

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1572 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 11:36:11 »
Any chance of reopening the group buy for the kit again (or having another), given the board and other part GBs are still going on?  I missed it by a day, geekhack notifications weren't getting to me for some reason for messages or this thread.  Sigh...

Why don't you send them an email or talk to them on live chat? They might allow extra orders, I'm sure they wouldn't mind the extra profit and besides they haven't ordered the parts yet since they have other GBs going on for the parts.

Quote
Also I'm considering just getting the case, pcb, keys, and keycaps, but at a rough guess that puts me at 196 (assuming I only need one set of keycaps and not two, that part wasn't clear on the MD page), plus the need for the teensy, i/o expander, leds, and diodes (with a handful of other small parts) plus shipping for all those things (sigh again...).  Am I missing anything?

No, but you are illustrating that the keyboard kit is a good deal, since it's 199 + 35 for keycaps = $234. It's going to be hard to get all the missing parts including shipping for under $50 or $60. Contact them about getting a full kit, even though you are late, and let us know what they say!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline cancelx

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1573 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 13:07:32 »
Is there any possibility of joining the group buy? I have totally missed the massdrop one and now I'm crying :(
Model M SSK - WASD V1 - CM Storm QFR - Ducky Year of the Rabbit - Realforce 87U - WASD V2 - K-Type

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1574 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 13:14:23 »
This is not a GB, the MD buy is the only one that has been initiated.  Just contact MD directly, they will likely let you order the complete board since they have parts GBs running beyond this date.
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline jedcred

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1575 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 13:14:48 »

Why don't you send them an email or talk to them on live chat? They might allow extra orders, I'm sure they wouldn't mind the extra profit and besides they haven't ordered the parts yet since they have other GBs going on for the parts.


I just did, and a Will there was very, very kind and was able to add my order to the group buy.  I hope I don't cause a sort of "run on the bank" in relating this.  I really very much appreciate their flexibility in this case.  I would say try talking to them on live chat.  Be nice!
Keyboards:
Filco tenkeyless with Cherry Blues
IBM Model M \'93
Razer Blackwidow x 2 (because parts)
Goldtouch Adjustable
Logitech MX 5500

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1576 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 13:16:05 »
Actually you're the 2nd or 3rd to ask this question here  :)  glad you got in.
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline Cadrach

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1577 on: Tue, 29 January 2013, 13:22:05 »

Why don't you send them an email or talk to them on live chat? They might allow extra orders, I'm sure they wouldn't mind the extra profit and besides they haven't ordered the parts yet since they have other GBs going on for the parts.


I just did, and a Will there was very, very kind and was able to add my order to the group buy.  I hope I don't cause a sort of "run on the bank" in relating this.  I really very much appreciate their flexibility in this case.  I would say try talking to them on live chat.  Be nice!

I imagine MD won't order any of the PCBs and cases until the individual component buys end, so I would guess that anybody trying to squeeze an order in now isn't actually that much extra work for MassDrop.  Probably some manual entry into their system, but that's it.  And then they get another unit of profit.  Good for everybody.  Of course, at the moment that they actually place their full order for any given component, that all goes out the window.

Offline SubGothius

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1578 on: Wed, 30 January 2013, 18:33:01 »
Regarding feet, it appears they won't be supplied with the MD kit, but McMaster-Carr supplies all sorts of commodity hardware, including rubber bumpers:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#rubber-bumpers/=l9lh1w

Note each type has a wide variety of subtypes, shapes and sizes -- e.g., the threaded bumpers have a threaded-hole version that you could prolly thread right onto the bottom of your case screws, or use the with-holes type to surround the standard bottom nuts. I'm thinking the push-in type would suffice if the bottom plate is supplied with separate holes for mounting feet.

Also check your local hardware or auto parts stores; they generally have a selection of many/most of the types McMaster lists above.

I may be replacing my inboard-side case screws with longer ones to support tenting, perhaps with tall coupling nuts on the ends for adjustability, then I could just put a rubber cap on those.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline danielucf

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1579 on: Thu, 31 January 2013, 09:31:29 »
I'm going to use some rubber bumpers from old switches/routers that got rack mounted instead of sitting on a desk. I think we have 100s at work that will probably get tossed in the garbage some day.
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1580 on: Thu, 31 January 2013, 09:33:11 »
...get tossed in the garbage some day.

Dude, you named your car that too?!
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline danielucf

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1581 on: Thu, 31 January 2013, 09:40:18 »
...get tossed in the garbage some day.

Dude, you named your car that too?!
Funny guy, you!
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Offline Glissant

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1582 on: Thu, 31 January 2013, 11:44:51 »
I'm a sorry excuse for a human being because I laughed at that joke :)).

I wonder if I'll find some bumpers here in the cold lonely north xD.

Offline sordna

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1583 on: Thu, 31 January 2013, 19:37:50 »
The ErgoDox sold count has risen from 204 when the GB ended, to 207 at the moment. Let's see if it grows further, 16 hours to go for the PCB and case group buys to close. I suspect that's the point of no return for special requests, unless Massdrop will delay placing the actual orders till next week.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline calavera

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1584 on: Thu, 31 January 2013, 22:51:30 »
Where can I buy one and who provides assembly service if needed???

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1585 on: Thu, 31 January 2013, 23:28:05 »
You would buy it at massdrop.com
You need to create an account, and contact them to participate, since officially it's over.
On the same site you can purchase assembly service, the deal is still active for 5 more days:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-assembly

I believe this page doesn't need an account to see it:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/assembly.php
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline calavera

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  • Location: South Korea
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1586 on: Fri, 01 February 2013, 00:15:49 »
You would buy it at massdrop.com
You need to create an account, and contact them to participate, since officially it's over.
On the same site you can purchase assembly service, the deal is still active for 5 more days:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-assembly

I believe this page doesn't need an account to see it:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/assembly.php

Thank you for that. I'm on the notify list in case the group buy picks up additional buyers for the whole kit.
Right now I'm hesitant to buy the assembly service though since I don't even have any parts. :(

Offline boli

  • Posts: 342
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1587 on: Fri, 01 February 2013, 02:04:32 »
Woot, I totally missed the ErgoDox group buy on massdrop. :eek: Would have gotten one for sure (more later if satisfactory).

Any ideas if/when the next round will be up? I'm only interested in a complete kit, not individual parts. Ideally including assembly, such as Profosists awesome assembly offer. Anyway, I requested a kit on MD so hopefully will get an email when/if it comes back.

Since they have group buys going on, for the various parts, that are not over yet, I suspect they _might_ be able to accommodate an order for a complete keyboard, so ask them. Even the Profosist's group buy still has 8 days to go.

I did that because I saw you recommending it to someone else over at DT and in the MD discussion. Fortunately, I was able to order one for myself as well as another one for a friend. :) I tried adding a third one for another friend later but was told they couldn't accept orders any more.

Still, I'm blown away by the very personal mass drop service. And of course very much looking forward to the ErgoDox.
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline ic07

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1588 on: Sat, 02 February 2013, 02:35:17 »
(cross-post)

Since no one who's asked has reported back yet... lol:  I just chatted with Mark at Massdrop, and they're thinking the kits will be shipping in 3-6 weeks - determined by whichever part takes the longest, probably either the cases or the PCBs.  The PCB order has gone in already, but since it's Chinese New Year the factories are empty at the moment.

Offline L!athus

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1589 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 12:45:23 »
 :-\ It totally slip my mind during my correspondence with MD i have enquired about shipping as well. I was quote 2-3 weeks for parts to get to them and anywhere from 1-2 wks, depending on country of residence, of shipping time. Probably the switches will be the last piece of the puzzle, if any delays on shipping, as they got them from varies sources. Safe to put ETA on mid of march i presume.

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1590 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 15:06:14 »
So basically the better part of a month to get my GUI code functional. That should probably be enough for me to at least get basic functionality out of it assuming I don't get too sidetracked on the front end - and no unforeseen problems crop up.

I never got a response back from OrangeJewce, so I'm just trucking ahead on my own in my free time. Worst case basis, we end up with multiple options. ;)

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1591 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 15:33:01 »
So basically the better part of a month to get my GUI code functional. That should probably be enough for me to at least get basic functionality out of it assuming I don't get too sidetracked on the front end - and no unforeseen problems crop up.

I never got a response back from OrangeJewce, so I'm just trucking ahead on my own in my free time. Worst case basis, we end up with multiple options. ;)

Oo! Design overview pls?? Lol, or not, I just mean, if u have a second n u feel like it, I'm curious what you're planning :)

Offline Zifle

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1592 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 16:27:14 »
I'm also working on a small web-based layout creator-thingie. So far it saves to layout in a database, and anything about changing the layout itself seems to be more or less functional, but there is still quite a few basic things to get down before showing it to anybody. Ideally, it would also compile the firmware, and allow sharing (I believe this was the intend of Orangejewce's idea?) of layouts, but I'm unsure of how it would be best to generate files for compiling.
I like cats.

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1593 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 16:31:04 »
Conceptually I'm just going with the same thing that OJ was proposing. Front end will be web based that'll communicate with the server backend using some layer abstraction independent of the actual firmware. Server backend will then take the user's layout, convert it into the actual firmware specific code. During compile phase, the front end keeps pinging the backend to get build position / time remaining estimates. Once complete, they get a download link for it. Ultimately, it should allow browsing other people's layouts (if shared), forking them, etc.

As of right now though, I'm focusing on the front end design and some level of cross browser compatibility. I am *not* a web page designer, so wont be super pretty, but it should be functional so long as you're on a recent browser (that's not Opera). Currently it's more proof of concept than even an alpha version.

In the current state I have:
  • An automatically generating, interactive keyboard template that scales to use the fullest extent of a window it's given.
  • The interactive version has key shaders that will allow an overview mode where you can emulate a given layer stack. Each layer's underlying keys will be visible through upper layer keys set to be pass-through, and are color coded by the layer they exist on.
  • Keyboard generation code can be set to create multiple non-interactive layers for print out.

I've attached a screencap of the in-progress mess. Ignore the bottom area as that's just a test section for now. Color scheme is currently based on the PCBs, though obviously will need some work.

[Edit] And It looks like there's even more people working on similar concepts lol. It's an amusing side project =).



Offline ic07

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1594 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 18:15:05 »
Nice :-) thanks. I'm glad to see these projects.  If I can answer any questions for you guys, please let me know and I'll do my best.

@Zifle:
If you haven't already, maybe take a look at the layout files here (especially the QWERTY one), and the new (as soon as I finish...) layout files here.  From a code generation standpoint, a standard-featured layout file should be almost entirely boilerplate (which can be copied from an existing layout) + a few matrices.
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 February 2013, 18:16:41 by ic07 »

Offline gdaian

  • Posts: 8
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1595 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 19:20:22 »
ic07, how hard do you think it would be to implement chording ability to the firmware? I would absolutely love that.

(Unrelated: my captcha is pretty funny)

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1596 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 21:43:29 »
Well, mapping JavaScript key codes to USB key codes, and then mapping those USB key codes to visual labels was... fun. Nothing beats manually editing 200+ item arrays! ;) At least I shouldn't have to convert them again at the back end. Just pass the raw key codes on and skip the human friendly defines used in the current files.

Unfortunately, however, there's no way to differentiate between left and right modifiers in JavaScript, so users will have to change them manually. Likewise, Print Screen appears to be impossible to capture. (And by manually, I mean having to use the GUI to pick out a function for the key.  The current quick mode is just clicking on a key, hitting the button the keyboard you want, clicking on the next key, etc. Can load out a layer in seconds.)

A loaded layer pic is attached with key shaders enabled. For some reason, Chrome renders text a bit wobbly on the diagonals, but there's not much I can do about that. It probably has something to do with the way Chrome handles the CSS scaling. USB key codes won't be placed at the bottom of keys in the real version, but they're there right now as both debug and for the fact that I'm not sure *what* I'll put there :)) For layer keys, the top and bottom of the key represent key-up and key-down states respectively. For transparent keys, the transparency label will be there to further distinguish them from active keys in normal layer configuration. For normal keys though, I guess the bottom will just be blank.

Offline OrangeJewce

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1597 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 22:29:50 »
Well, mapping JavaScript key codes to USB key codes, and then mapping those USB key codes to visual labels was... fun. Nothing beats manually editing 200+ item arrays! ;) At least I shouldn't have to convert them again at the back end. Just pass the raw key codes on and skip the human friendly defines used in the current files.

Unfortunately, however, there's no way to differentiate between left and right modifiers in JavaScript, so users will have to change them manually. Likewise, Print Screen appears to be impossible to capture. (And by manually, I mean having to use the GUI to pick out a function for the key.  The current quick mode is just clicking on a key, hitting the button the keyboard you want, clicking on the next key, etc. Can load out a layer in seconds.)

A loaded layer pic is attached with key shaders enabled. For some reason, Chrome renders text a bit wobbly on the diagonals, but there's not much I can do about that. It probably has something to do with the way Chrome handles the CSS scaling. USB key codes won't be placed at the bottom of keys in the real version, but they're there right now as both debug and for the fact that I'm not sure *what* I'll put there :)) For layer keys, the top and bottom of the key represent key-up and key-down states respectively. For transparent keys, the transparency label will be there to further distinguish them from active keys in normal layer configuration. For normal keys though, I guess the bottom will just be blank.

Zalusithix,

     Wow I'm impressed by your progress! I got put onto a project just recently that has literally been consuming me. I've been taking every free moment away from work to keep my significant other happy. I suppose that's what happens when you work most weekends are 12hrs a day. I apologize to everyone that I could not make more progress, irl just is getting in the way of all my keyboard ambitions at the moment.

Sincerely,

OJ
IBM Model M 1390120, Otaku Unicomp+RGB, CM QFR Green, Ducky YOTD Red, SSK MKII,
ErgoDox Blue, ErgoDox White

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1598 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 23:03:54 »
Question! I'm brainstorming for ideas of what to do with the new keys two rows below home. Would/will it be possible to program alt-code characters with these configurator programs such as ½ or ° symbols?

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1599 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 23:24:00 »
OJ, no problems from my end. From the way you were talking last time, it seemed you were quite bogged down. After I got no response that weekend, I decided to start messing around with things as it had been years since the last time I worked with HTML/JS.

Originally I started with an SVG representation, but canned that approach after a couple days. Now it's entirely CSS driven. Sadly I've already had to drop some 'functionality' (read: eye candy). I wanted to use CSS3 to have 3D transformations allowing a stack rendering to split into it's individual layers etc. This would be too laggy though for the number of divs used, so it's now a single keyboard that gets dynamically updated as needed and I stick to only 2D transforms.  In the end, perhaps that was for the best, as it now follows the KISS principle much better. (FWIW, 10 active keyboard layers would have used over 3000 divs if rendered individually.)

[Edit] bisl, I don't believe so. There's no macro functionality in the current firmware build, and I don't see those particular glyphs in the USB HID spec. Once ic07 has the new firmware done, I think it should be possible though.
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 February 2013, 23:27:36 by Zalusithix »