Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 1236636 times)

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Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1650 on: Thu, 07 February 2013, 09:40:06 »
For those of you looking for Brown switches Newegg has a board for sale that comes out to the same price as getting them from 7bit. You would just have to spend the time desoldering 104 switches.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201051
Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/ATNoppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)



Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution


Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1651 on: Thu, 07 February 2013, 09:48:55 »
Folks, Kinesis can sell you reds as well as brown switches. They only carry PCB-mount ones (like the ones for the Kinesis Advantage), ie with pins and integrated diodes, which coincidentally, the ErgoDox PCB and firmware supports!

You just need to set the following options in src/keyboard/ergodox/options.h:
Code: [Select]
        #define  TEENSY__DRIVE_ROWS       0
        #define  TEENSY__DRIVE_COLUMNS    1
        #define  MCP23018__DRIVE_ROWS     1
        #define  MCP23018__DRIVE_COLUMNS  0
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1652 on: Thu, 07 February 2013, 17:45:09 »
Folks, Kinesis can sell you reds as well as brown switches.

I'm sure you know them better than I do, but last time I talked to them (as someone who wanted switches for a DIY board, not for modding / repairing a Kinesis board) they didn't want to sell me a full board's worth (of Reds, I believe), and said they usually didn't sell in that quantity...

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1653 on: Thu, 07 February 2013, 19:44:42 »
Normally they sell red switches in batches of 15 (to replace Kinesis thumbkeys from reds to browns), but apart from small quantities, I've bought a batch of 60 red switches from them. Maybe they love me because I own at least 6 contoured keyboards. :-)  I love them too, after all they created my beloved Advantage LF when I suggested it to them. I own the very first LF made, the first two actually since I bought a pair. Not sure if they have collector's value after I've dremeled them to add extra keys and palm switches :-)
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Dox

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 312
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1654 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 13:49:31 »
PCB files and litster case files added to http://ergodox.org/Downloads.aspx
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1655 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 17:37:17 »

Offline jwaz

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1656 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 17:43:19 »

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1657 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 19:17:23 »
Ok, got the sanitizing/link fixing working along with the preview mode. So before I go into the next spree of changing things around, I'll do a quick update. For those curious about the whole layer preview mode, here's an example:
Assume layer 1 looks like this:
13169-0
Layer 2 like this:
13171-1
And Layer 3 like this:
13173-2

When preview mode is toggled on, you end up seeing this:
13175-3
This is basically showing a stack of layers going from right to left on the layer bar. (layer 3 on top of 2 on top of 1). The color of the resulting key press is shaded by the color of the layer it's from.

If you change the layer bar by sliding the layer selector around, you can change the effective stack order to preview different results. Like this one where I made if effectively layer 2 on top of 1 with 3 hidden as layer 1 can't have transparent keys.
13177-4

When you exit preview mode, the colors turn off and the layer bar returns to in-order configuration style. So while not a full blown keyboard emulator, it does serve to get a quick feel for what it'll end up doing when actually running on the board.

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1658 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 19:25:10 »
[cool-ass stuff here]

You're not releasing beta builds for us to play with the UI, are you? :)

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1659 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 19:34:36 »
The goal is to have a UI preview ready by the end of the weekend. It wont have backend support for saving or anything, but it'll allow people to play with the way the interface works and make suggestions etc.

Right now I'm still missing two controls that will go below the current ones: the manual key function selector and the macro creator. I want to at least get the former working before giving people something to play with. The macro creator isn't quite as important so I wont hold it back if I'm not finished with that part.

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1660 on: Sat, 09 February 2013, 04:38:03 »
The goal is to have a UI preview ready by the end of the weekend. It wont have backend support for saving or anything, but it'll allow people to play with the way the interface works and make suggestions etc.

Right now I'm still missing two controls that will go below the current ones: the manual key function selector and the macro creator. I want to at least get the former working before giving people something to play with. The macro creator isn't quite as important so I wont hold it back if I'm not finished with that part.

amazing. thanks for all your work.

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1661 on: Sat, 09 February 2013, 23:08:28 »
Manual key entry is in, though admittedly nothing fancy. Hopefully I can get some semblance of a macro editor in by the end of tomorrow...

Either way, it's pretty much fully capable now as far as normal layouts go. With the manual key entry in, it can now support the few special functions of the firmware (toggled keys, special numpad layer, 2 shifts for caps lock, boot loader), and all the oddball keys that you don't normally find or can't be detected by JavaScript. It doesn't have much category breakdown, but honestly it should rarely be used aside from keyboard functions. For assigning standard keys, the keyboard is far, far faster than any GUI. (For changing right & left modifiers, you can just middle click the key, so you don't even have to use the menu for that.)

As a bonus, it auto restricts functionality to where it should be. For instance, you can't apply the shifted function to a shift key, or a numpad layer designation to anything other than a layer shift. (Once a layer has been designated a numpad layer, all past and future links to it will call it as such until you remove the numpad layer function, or add the numpad layer function to a different layer.)

The restrictions are actually implemented in other areas too like the layer shifting. You can't layer push the layer that you're currently on onto the stack again, and likewise you can't pop any layer other than the one you are currently on. It won't keep you from getting stuck on a layer or anything (yet), but hey, anything is better than nothing.

Quick screen cap attached showing the new control and various keys outfitted with the new functions.

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1662 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 19:25:57 »
OK, no macro editor for the night. Instead I went through and documented all the source code that wasn't already. (90% of it) From there I'll be correcting some of the dumber things I've done in the existing code, and then I'll go back to adding things.

So for those wanting something to play with:
http://zalusithix.com/ergodox-ui/
  • Tested in Chrome, Firefox and  IE 10. It should work with minimal rendering issues. (Partial font overflows exist in some cases - I haven't tweaked spacings fully.)
  • I assume it'll work in Safari due to it being webkit based.
  • IE 9 sort of kinda works (some rendering bugs). Anything less than IE 9 I don't care about. (Honestly I don't care much about IE 9 either - 10 will be available for everybody on a modern OS soon.)
  • Opera has rendering bugs and chugs. Don't use it for this.
  • As mentioned before, this is purely a UI demo. It functions, but is incapable of even saving a layout you create.

Offline wasabah

  • Posts: 156
  • Location: Germany
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1663 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 20:16:15 »
For what screen resolution is this optimized?
On my work laptop I (unfortunately) have a resolution of 1366x768 and everything is crazy huge. :)
ErgoDox Classic | Logitech G400 | Logitech Marble | Logitech M570 | Logitech M235 | Logitech M305

Offline alaricljs

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1664 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 20:18:45 »
Everything fits at 1107x544 with no scroll bars.  The Keyboard is super small tho.  The control buttons across the bottom don't resize like the keyboard does.  They stay pretty big the throughout the window size range.

Oh yeah - that's with Firefox.
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 February 2013, 20:21:56 by alaricljs »
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1665 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 20:36:30 »
It's designed for wide aspect ratios at modern resolutions, but it is rather dynamic in its space usage.
  • Horizontal minimum resolution is set for 1100px. Smaller than that and the control area at the bottom begins scrolling.
  • The control area height is 280px fixed, and the header height is 40px fixed for a grand total of 320px of non-keyboard height.
  • The keyboard scales automatically to fit what's left of the viewport in both the vertical and horizontal dimensions, so how big it is is fully dependent on resolution. On my 30" monitor, it's gigantic in full window mode.
  • The bottom control area expands as the horizontal resolution increases allowing more keys to be visible and layer selectors to be larger.

So yeah, it'll work at low resolutions, but it wont be great. Likewise it'll be huge on high resolution screens, but you can always shrink the window and the entire UI will adjust itself to fit.

Edit: If there's a lot of people that for some reason are on very low resolution displays, I could probably concoct something that will slide the key function list / macro editor part of the control section off screen most of the time to increase the keyboard's effective size.
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 February 2013, 20:44:36 by Zalusithix »

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1666 on: Mon, 11 February 2013, 01:58:23 »
This is awesome! I played around for a couple minutes to kick the tires before bed, and I noticed that in Firefox at least, ; and - couldn't be bound with keystrokes from the keyboard. However, I was able to bind them explicitly with the menus at the bottom.

Looks pretty good! Excited for macros.

Offline nesiax

  • Posts: 63
    • key64 libre keyboard
First key64 firmware available for download
« Reply #1667 on: Mon, 11 February 2013, 06:07:45 »
Sorry for invade into this thread  :oops: i am posting this into geekhack and deskthority ergodox's threads.

I have made a firmware for the key64 keyboard that i would like to share with you , i don't know if it could be useful for people who have been playing with the ergodox now but anyway is a free firmware that you can adapt to your needs.

The firmware have been in a testing phase for a while, it contains all the features described at the design page of the key64.

This initial firmware is a keyboard profile that compiles on top of the amazing tmk_keyboard firmware developed by Jun Wako a.k.a. "hasu" with some modifications.

For those who are interested please see the downloads page, then follow the instructions on how to compile the firmware.

I would like to finish the keyboard but my time is very limited, i know the ergodox have more fans than the key64 and it got the interest of the community the key64 fail to achieve; but if someone wants to collaborate with us we need a help with the design of the case, right now it appears more like a batman's keyboard, my idea initially was to make a wood case using a series of lasered cuts in wood one over the other and also a pcb plate to gain more stability , i see people prefer plastic, but i think (and is my personal opinion) wood give you a feeling of relaxation and is also a beautiful material.

Comments and suggestions are welcome.
now: key64.org with cherry blue keys and dsa keys |  before: noppoo choc mini with cherry brown keys
Check out the key64.org project , A Libre * Design, Minimalist, Ergonomic, Splittable, Symmetric, Compact 64 Keys, Eco-Friendly, Durable, Native Colemak Keyboard, Embedded Mouse and Firmware Programmable USB Keyboard.  * Free as in Freedom.
The key64 need a case, if you want to design it please contact us

Offline OrangeJewce

  • ssk.ℜ
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  • King of the Jewce
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1668 on: Mon, 11 February 2013, 08:40:36 »
The British are coming!

Cheers,
IBM Model M 1390120, Otaku Unicomp+RGB, CM QFR Green, Ducky YOTD Red, SSK MKII,
ErgoDox Blue, ErgoDox White

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1669 on: Mon, 11 February 2013, 09:17:28 »
I would like to finish the keyboard but my time is very limited, i know the ergodox have more fans than the key64 and it got the interest of the community the key64 fail to achieve; but if someone wants to collaborate with us we need a help with the design of the case

Hi!
May I suggest you start a new thread for the Key64 with a descriptive name under "making stuff together!" here on geekhack? That should help get more visibisity and interest.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1670 on: Mon, 11 February 2013, 13:02:53 »
This is awesome! I played around for a couple minutes to kick the tires before bed, and I noticed that in Firefox at least, ; and - couldn't be bound with keystrokes from the keyboard. However, I was able to bind them explicitly with the menus at the bottom.

Looks pretty good! Excited for macros.

Thanks for pointing that out. Apparently Firefox is using a different key code to represent those keys than either IE or Chrome use. I don't have the ability to check exactly what it's sending right now at work, but I'll fix that when I get home. Pretty much all those key codes have to be mapped manually as there's no direct relationship between JavaScript key codes and USB codes... Heck, there isn't even a sane relation between the JS key codes and char codes. At any rate, it should be a two second fix once I get around to it.

Edit: Fixed now and changes uploaded.
'; :' is 186 in Chrome/IE, and 59 in Firefox. Here Firefox is using the ascii char value of ';' as the key code.
'= +' is 187 in Chrome/IE, and 61 in Firefox. Yet again Firefox is using the ascii value '=' as the key code.
'- _' is  189 in Chrome/IE, and 173 in Firefox. Time to throw out consistency! 173 sure as heck isn't the ascii char value of '-', but it *is* the Unicode value for a "soft hyphen".
Aside from those three characters, it appears everything else is the same.


Edit 2 / Update: It has been a week since the demo UI went up and I figure a status update would be nice. I'm not going to bump the thread with a new post when I have nothing aside from news to offer, but I will hijack this post.

Shortly after posting the demo UI, I went through the code and corrected the most glaring issues (mixed bases, etc). From there I added a naming feature so descriptors could be set to layers / macros. Then I implemented the UI shell of the macro editor and tweaked the CSS and JavaScript so everything was rendering in a consistent uniform manner. Everything was set to begin coding the macro editor which should have been pretty straight forward from a UI perspective. The (non-essential) editing mode would require a bit of work since it would have to implement a virtual cursor and have to deal with selection / insertion / deletion, but I had ideas of how to deal with all of that.

However, when I began looking at the future beyond that and the general extensibility of the code, I got disgusted and said screw it...  and started a complete refactor / rewrite of the code base. This is beyond my original fixing of minor inconsistencies and is basically a wholesale dumping of the existing code. Now that I have a clearer idea of how I want things to go, I'm stepping away from the global variable hackfest that the previous code was and adopting a more class based / OO approach. This will push my schedule back at least another week, but at this point I'm more interested in doing it right (or at least closer to it) than simply getting it done ASAP.
« Last Edit: Mon, 18 February 2013, 21:04:49 by Zalusithix »

Offline wolfv

  • Posts: 269
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1671 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 16:09:11 »
Thank you for developing such a nice keyboard.
I was looking at some dox keyboard layouts that some folks where kind enough to post.
Seems like most of the dox keyboards have three layers.
The Layer-key labels are cryptic to me.
Please point me to a reference or explain how the Layer keys work on the dox keyboards.

mikeLanding posted a layout with these keys:
   "Fn (L-1)"
   "Fn Lock (L-1)"
   "Num (L-3)"
   "Num Lock (L-3)"
How does Mike get to layer 2?
What does "Fn" mean?

dox, what are these keys for?
   "la 1 + 1"
   "la 1 +- 1"

zalusithx, what do these keys do?
   "L- 2  L+ 2"
   "L+ 2"
   "L- 3  L+ 3"
   "L+ 3"

theProfosist, are the "FN" keys shift or lock?
   "FN2"
   "FN3"

key64, how does the "Fn0" key work?

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1672 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 17:25:28 »
Take a look at the info at the top of this file.  It won't answer all your questions directly, but it should give you a pretty good background :) .

Edit: Also, Welcome to geekhack!

Offline eviltobz

  • Posts: 95
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1673 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 17:37:24 »
My understanding of things, as something of a newbie to such matters, is that layer shifting can be something that is only active whilst holding a key, or can be toggled on and off depending on how you want to use it. Think of the shift and caps lock keys, with the former you only get caps when you're also holding down your magic button, whereas with the latter you tap it then everything is caps until you turn it off - we'll handily ignore non-letter keys for this example ;)

The layer stuff is more cunning than plain old shift though, it can be set to only effect certain keys, whilst others continue to perform their original duties, and different layers can be combined. In layer 1 you could have the plain old alphabet - probably qwerty for most, I'll be going colemak myself. Layer 2 could then turn a bunch of keys on the right into a number pad, like a lot of laptops do, other keys are still letters and whatnot. Layer 3 could then do something similar on the left, but with Function keys, and still have a few letters showing through. You could then turn on either layer independently, giving you numbers or F-keys, or even both together, leaving you with a number pad, F-keys, and a few stray letters that haven't been overwritten. Of course, you could always program it not to let unchanged keys through too if you prefer.

Those oddities with the layer stuff are, I believe, all variations on these themes.

edit - although you'd do far better to pay attention to ic07's post that came in whilst I was writing my waffle. He wrote the firmware, so knows more than most about it ;)
« Last Edit: Tue, 19 February 2013, 17:39:16 by eviltobz »

Offline wolfv

  • Posts: 269
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1674 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 20:13:29 »
Thanks ic07 and eviltobz.   Layer keys now make sense  :)

What does "Fn" mean?
« Last Edit: Tue, 19 February 2013, 20:16:04 by wolfv »

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1675 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 20:23:49 »
I've taken some liberties in my labeling of things, like starting layers at layer 1.  This extends to layer shifts where the previous format didn't really fit my UI. A 'L+ X' key denotes a key that when pressed will push the X'th layer onto the layer stack. Similarly a 'L- X' key will remove that layer from the stack. Thus it follows that a key that has both of them on it basically acts as a momentary layer shift. If you play around with my UI, you can see how the layers interact in preview mode. When used right, they can be rather powerful tools.

Also, numpad layers are special layers in that they denote a layer such that any keypad keys on that layer always act as if the numlock is on regardless of the real state. This way whenever you shift to a numpad layer, you wont get accidental arrows, home, end, etc.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1676 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 20:27:18 »
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline calavera

  • Posts: 1713
  • Location: South Korea
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1677 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 21:46:56 »
How many switches does the ergodox use?

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1678 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 22:55:08 »
How many switches does the ergodox use?

Between 76 and 80, depending on if you plan on splitting the 2x-size thumb keys into two 1x-size keys each.

Offline wolfv

  • Posts: 269
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1679 on: Tue, 19 February 2013, 23:58:40 »
What does "Fn" mean?

Function

mikeLanding posted a layout with these keys:
   "Fn (L-1)"
   "Fn Lock (L-1)"

theProfosist posted a layout with these keys:
   "FN2"
   "FN3"

Does "Fn" change top-row number keys to F keys?
Does "FN2" key function to activate layer 2?

Thanks for answering my noob questions.

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1680 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 00:16:02 »
I haven't looked at the layout in question, but given the 'L' part, 'Fn (L-1)' was probably his notation for pushing layer one onto the stack momentarily, whereas the lock was probably for a normal push that doesn't pop when the key is released.

There is no 'function key' aside from the standard F keys you see on every keyboard (and the ones going higher than 12). Keys can have various functions assigned to them, but there's not some standard "this is the function key" sort of thing. As far as built in functions go, the firmware has:
  • Layer shifting (pushing and popping of layers)
  • Designating a layer as a numpad type
  • Setting a key as transparent
  • Setting a key as a toggled key
  • Setting a key to be in a shifted state when pushed
  • Setting caps lock to fire when both shifts are pressed
  • Enabling the boot loader
Anything else would have to be coded into the firmware by the person wanting to implement the feature.

Offline wolfv

  • Posts: 269
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1681 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 01:41:07 »
Thank you Zalusithix!

Offline Peter Pinard

  • Posts: 3
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1682 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 13:41:01 »
The PCB for the Ergodox shown has the following printed on it: "Components are intended to be placed on the side they are drawn. It is however possible to invert the design. See the webpage for further instructions"

I cant find the instructions for inversion anywhere, but when I get my ergodox, I would prefer to assemble it so that the teensy board is on the Left side. Is this possible and are there plans to write up the instructions to do so?

Offline bpiphany

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1683 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 03:02:22 »
The PCB for the Ergodox shown has the following printed on it: "Components are intended to be placed on the side they are drawn. It is however possible to invert the design. See the webpage for further instructions"

I cant find the instructions for inversion anywhere, but when I get my ergodox, I would prefer to assemble it so that the teensy board is on the Left side. Is this possible and are there plans to write up the instructions to do so?

Ha, yes, that is a bit of a loose end I guess =) It's not too complicated if you know what you are doing. Just do everything backwards... Including the firmware. I don't think it will be a very popular choice, unless you plan to do a left hand only keyboard. Perhaps we will need to write up a guide at some point if the interest is high enough. No-one tried it I believe, but everything should be invertible, I'm quite sure =)

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1684 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 15:01:04 »
The Teensy, MCP23018, bridges next to the TRRS connectors, and the USB molex connector still need to go on the side they're drawn, don't they?  Even if you put all the switches, diodes, and resistors on the other side?

@Peter:
But bpiphany's the one who drew the PCBs, so he's the one who would know such things :-)
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 February 2013, 15:03:27 by ic07 »

Offline nesiax

  • Posts: 63
    • key64 libre keyboard
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1685 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 14:40:28 »
key64, how does the "Fn0" key work?
Hi, you probably already know the answer to your question as in some way the goal of every Fn key is to solve the lack of keys like in a laptop keyboard, the key64 is so simple in such a way that it removes many of the functional keys and allow them on a second layer which is a hardware layer, and a alternate layer which is a software layer and is commonly manage through the AltGr/Option key combination and is operating system dependent, with those two options you have enough ways to configure and to type without moving your hands so long from the home row if that is your preference.  As a personal preference the second hardware layer in the key64 is for some users who like me are typing regular expression frequently, the fact is that a standard keyboard is so painful as you will have to work with your right pinky too much and is harder to touch type, because of that the second layer is used to type symbols like {[('|&")]} which i removed from the main layer and move them at the home row in the Fn Layer, and the other ones like `~$@\^%*!#-_=+ which are usually typed using shift + <number> are located around too the idea is not to type at the keyboard periphery, so the keyboard should fit nicely from casual users to specialized users, right now i am typing at the key64 prototype and i found that very comfortable to use.
There are other layers too like the numlock layer and the mouse layer and each of them have a Fn layer too, those two are known as 'switchable layers' that means they change the default layer via a special key combination, this will let you for example change the keyboard distribution like (qwerty, colemak, dvorak) which are the ones the key64 support at this moment and we also have the console key which is the 64th key which is used for debugging the firmware, change keyboard layouts, lock keyboard, send debug commands or whatever you want to program it for.
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 February 2013, 14:58:08 by nesiax »
now: key64.org with cherry blue keys and dsa keys |  before: noppoo choc mini with cherry brown keys
Check out the key64.org project , A Libre * Design, Minimalist, Ergonomic, Splittable, Symmetric, Compact 64 Keys, Eco-Friendly, Durable, Native Colemak Keyboard, Embedded Mouse and Firmware Programmable USB Keyboard.  * Free as in Freedom.
The key64 need a case, if you want to design it please contact us

Offline bpiphany

  • Posts: 1033
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
  • bpiph is a special type of crazy. //mkawa
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1686 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 04:42:44 »
The Teensy, MCP23018, bridges next to the TRRS connectors, and the USB molex connector still need to go on the side they're drawn, don't they?  Even if you put all the switches, diodes, and resistors on the other side?

@Peter:
But bpiphany's the one who drew the PCBs, so he's the one who would know such things :-)
  • The Teensy is simple to put upside down.
  • The IO expander should be possible to do the same thing to, bending all the legs over to the other side.
  • The 3.5mm connectors shouldn't be any problem, just double-make-sure VCC and GND ends up the right way.
  • LEDs, diodes and resistors are easy.
  • I at some point had the intention to only have the USB connector to be connected through the fly-wires from the Teensy, which would have made it easy to put it on either side. Now I'm unsure of how I actually did it on the production PCB... So the USB connector may have to go on the "correct" side.

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 5034
  • Location: Koriko
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1687 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 10:09:37 »
  • The Teensy is simple to put upside down.
But you would need access to the button on the top side to program it.
Would it be possible to drill a hole through the PCB for reaching it with a pin, or is there anything important in the way?

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1688 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 10:55:06 »
@bpiphany: Ooo, I completely forgot about turning stuff upside down. I must be tired or something... Lol. Thanks :-)

@findecanor: IIRC, the button is pretty close to the edge... Seems like it wouldn't be waaay too hard to get to when you really needed it. Most of the firmware layouts have a key combination that you can use to reprogram too.

Offline bpiphany

  • Posts: 1033
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
  • bpiph is a special type of crazy. //mkawa
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1689 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 11:24:47 »
There are also a RESET and a GND through hole pad on the Teensy, which are very easy to short out to do exactly the same thing the button does. I have put magnetic switches between them on my other projects using Teensys =D

Offline wolfv

  • Posts: 269
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1690 on: Mon, 25 February 2013, 21:41:51 »
key64, how does the "Fn0" key work?
Hi, you probably already know the answer to your question as in some way the goal of every Fn key is to solve the lack of keys like in a laptop keyboard, the key64 is so simple in such a way that it removes many of the functional keys and allow them on a second layer which is a hardware layer, and a alternate layer which is a software layer and is commonly manage through the AltGr/Option key combination and is operating system dependent, with those two options you have enough ways to configure and to type without moving your hands so long from the home row if that is your preference.  As a personal preference the second hardware layer in the key64 is for some users who like me are typing regular expression frequently, the fact is that a standard keyboard is so painful as you will have to work with your right pinky too much and is harder to touch type, because of that the second layer is used to type symbols like {[('|&")]} which i removed from the main layer and move them at the home row in the Fn Layer, and the other ones like `~$@\^%*!#-_=+ which are usually typed using shift + <number> are located around too the idea is not to type at the keyboard periphery, so the keyboard should fit nicely from casual users to specialized users, right now i am typing at the key64 prototype and i found that very comfortable to use.
There are other layers too like the numlock layer and the mouse layer and each of them have a Fn layer too, those two are known as 'switchable layers' that means they change the default layer via a special key combination, this will let you for example change the keyboard distribution like (qwerty, colemak, dvorak) which are the ones the key64 support at this moment and we also have the console key which is the 64th key which is used for debugging the firmware, change keyboard layouts, lock keyboard, send debug commands or whatever you want to program it for.
nesiax,
Sounds like key64 is well thought out.  My question is more basic.  On the key64 Layout Described page http://www.key64.org/design/the-layout-described, do the Fn0, Fn1, Fn2, Fn4 correspond to layer numbers?  If so, how are the layers numbered?

Code: [Select]
LAYER              QUESTION
Mouse Lock Layer   What does the Fn2 key do?
Num Lock Layer     What does the Fn1 key do?

Thank you.
« Last Edit: Tue, 26 February 2013, 07:43:12 by wolfv »

Offline listboss

  • Posts: 22
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1691 on: Tue, 05 March 2013, 14:56:37 »
hello to everyone

As you can see I'm new to GH :)
First of all I'd like to thank all the main contributors who made this keyboard a reality.

As I'm waiting to get the keyboard from MassDrop, I'm trying to find and buy keycaps
from a 3rd party vendor.

I was hoping you could help me find answers to these questions:

  • Is it possible to program the keyboard to have a key behave as a 'dead' key?
  • What keycap sizes should be used for the keys on the edges of the keyboard? (1.5X, 1.25X, ...)
  • Where would you suggest to get affordable keycaps?
  • Has the artist who's rendered the frontpage image of the ergodox.org made his/her work available to public? I'm asking because I want to experiment with different colors before ordering the caps.

Side note: I'm also working on a layout for programmers which is based on Workman layout and combines the ideas from
I've fallen in love with idea of using a dead key to type in programming characters. I barely use the number row anymore :)
(You can try the concept on a Mac using the OSX keyboard bundle from here)
I'll share it as soon as I'm done with it :)

thanks in advance

Offline Zifle

  • Posts: 166
  • Location: Denmark
  • Nyaaa
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1692 on: Tue, 05 March 2013, 15:41:14 »
  • Is it possible to program the keyboard to have a key behave as a 'dead' key?
  • What keycap sizes should be used for the keys on the edges of the keyboard? (1.5X, 1.25X, ...)
  • Where would you suggest to get affordable keycaps?
  • Has the artist who's rendered the frontpage image of the ergodox.org made his/her work available to public? I'm asking because I want to experiment with different colors before ordering the caps.

Welcome to GH!

I'll answer to the best of my abilities:

  • You mean, as in doesn't do anything when it is pressed? Sure
  • 1.5X
  • Either WASD Keyboards, or grab a set from one of the various group buys. Unfortunately, you just missed out on the DSA GB, which was near perfect for ErgoDoxes. You might be lucky, and Massdrop hosts another GB for caps, but otherwise blanks from WASD or SP is your best bet.
  • I believe the artist is Dox himself, I cannot recall having seen the files used for rendering those exact images, but you could always check out some of the downloads from the ErgoDox website

Additionally, you might want to have a look at Massdrop's layout configurator, this is currently the simplest way of rebinding keys, although other services are under development, and you can always modify the firmware yourself (github)

I hope this helps! :)
I like cats.

Offline SubGothius

  • Posts: 79
  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
    • HTDoctor.com
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1693 on: Tue, 05 March 2013, 15:45:09 »
2. What keycap sizes should be used for the keys on the edges of the keyboard? (1.5X, 1.25X, ...)
3. Where would you suggest to get affordable keycaps?[/li][/list]

Currently, WASD Keyboards seems to be your best and cheapest bet, and this post may be relevant to your interests:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg767289#msg767289

"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline alaricljs

  • I be WOT'ing all day...
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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1694 on: Tue, 05 March 2013, 15:51:50 »
Dead keys is really an OS side feature.
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1695 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 16:05:16 »
MD sent this to GB participants the other day:



Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Glod

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    • YouTube Channel
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1696 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 16:20:54 »
snap this update went to my spam box for some reason, wth

thanks for posting this

another update friday they say

it sounds like this could come in while i'm out on 2 weeks of business trips next month, though i could be wrong. bummer.

Offline listboss

  • Posts: 22
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1697 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 20:21:10 »

Additionally, you might want to have a look at Massdrop's layout configurator, this is currently the simplest way of rebinding keys, although other services are under development, and you can always modify the firmware yourself (github)

I hope this helps! :)

@Zifle @SubGothius @alaricljs

thanks for the info guys, appreciated.
For the dead-key, it seems I need to wait for it to be implemented in the firmware.

Offline Llamas

  • Posts: 3
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1698 on: Mon, 11 March 2013, 18:03:23 »
So, having missed the group buy, I'm trying to figure out what it would take to make one of these. I've seen the list of components, but I'm not clear on my PCB options. Is there an existing source or recommendations for a fabrication service? I can probably fashion a case myself, seeing how the pre-fab options are kind of pricey outside of the group buy context.

Thanks,

--Mike

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1699 on: Mon, 11 March 2013, 18:26:09 »
All the PCBs I know of have been made through pcbwing.  Or you could wire it up without one, like this guy :)

Edit:
Or you could wait till the a while after the group buy, and see if people start selling their extras.  I dunno how to predict what that market'll be like though.
Or you could wait till MD does another group buy, lol.  It seems likely that they will relatively soon, since last I checked there were >150 people who'd registered interest (on their site).
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 March 2013, 18:28:10 by ic07 »