Author Topic: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making  (Read 294657 times)

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Offline __red__

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #450 on: Tue, 05 February 2013, 21:43:05 »
Files are at work.  I'll try and remember them tomorrow.

Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #451 on: Tue, 05 February 2013, 22:11:24 »
I'm not sure how much time you're prepared to put into doing 3D keycap drawings yourself, but I can certainly send you a bag of sample caps, if you want to do that.  Also, note that our caps are taller than the ones SP sells.

I'm prepared to spend the time that it takes, but the shorter the better :) It's not so much the drawing itself I'm worried about, really, as it is getting the measurements of the stem right. I've drawn something up based on the cap from an Apple Extended II, but I'm not sure if it's right. Suppose I should just print it out and test it.

Our stem is identical to those on the Apple Extended II, so you should be fine.  Print and test.  :-)


Offline alaricljs

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #452 on: Tue, 05 February 2013, 22:38:09 »
Also, the Alps datasheet here has the exact measurements.  (2.2mm x 4.5mm)
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Offline __red__

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #453 on: Wed, 06 February 2013, 16:56:34 »
Attached:


Offline niklasni1

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #454 on: Wed, 06 February 2013, 18:01:50 »
Thank you very much!

It turns out I'd actually made this a lot more complicated than it needed to be - I was trying to copy the hole in stem on cap of  the Extended II. Not needed... just a 4.5x2.2mm block. Oh well. You live and you learn!

Offline alaricljs

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #455 on: Wed, 06 February 2013, 18:13:25 »
The hollow in the middle may help with getting the keycap back off the switch tho.
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Offline niklasni1

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #456 on: Wed, 06 February 2013, 19:13:07 »
I just did a test print. It's quite rough but it fits and comes back off, without the hollowing. I need to make some adjustments to both model and the printer settings I'm using.

When I'm happy with the results I'll release them to the world.  I've not yet decided if I want to use the printed ones directly, or make molds from them and cast copies, but this should serve as a nice starting point for anyone with similar plans.

Offline __red__

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #457 on: Wed, 06 February 2013, 19:51:30 »
Can you print one of my hexagonals and post a photo?

Offline niklasni1

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #458 on: Thu, 07 February 2013, 07:10:39 »
Sure, won't be before the weekend tho

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #459 on: Sat, 09 February 2013, 11:52:08 »
I just did a test print. It's quite rough but it fits and comes back off, without the hollowing. I need to make some adjustments to both model and the printer settings I'm using.
How much $$$ did your 3D printer cost?


Quote
When I'm happy with the results I'll release them to the world.  I've not yet decided if I want to use the printed ones directly, or make molds from them and cast copies, but this should serve as a nice starting point for anyone with similar plans.
I always assumed you would make molds then you could cast a whole bunch of keycaps all at once for mass producing your midibox.
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Offline niklasni1

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #460 on: Mon, 11 February 2013, 18:01:03 »
It's a modified Makerbot of some sort. I didn't build it myself, it was donated to the hackerspace where I do all my work.

Offline Grimey

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #461 on: Tue, 12 February 2013, 13:50:15 »
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Offline sordna

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #462 on: Tue, 12 February 2013, 14:09:03 »
Sorry if this has been asked before, but how do these switches compare to cherries, especially if you press off-center ? Are they smoother or do they have the slight friction that is associated with cherries ?  Is the bottom-out an abrupt clack like with cherries, and if so, can you dampen it with o-rings?
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Offline Burz

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #463 on: Wed, 13 February 2013, 03:37:29 »
Sorry if this has been asked before, but how do these switches compare to cherries, especially if you press off-center ? Are they smoother or do they have the slight friction that is associated with cherries ?  Is the bottom-out an abrupt clack like with cherries, and if so, can you dampen it with o-rings?
The Quiet Click switches have a tactile bump at actuation, are non-clicky and also dampened at the bottom AND top of the keystroke.

The Click switches are tactile & click at the actuation point but have no dampening so they bottom out hard. The sound these switches make remind me of castanets. :)

You should listen to the sound samples at the Matias site. The Quiet click and Clicky switches seem to sit at almost opposite ends of the keyboard loudness scale (if there were such a thing).

I'll be able to comment on the smoothness and off-center once I receive my mini Quiet Pro. I'm sure others here will chime in...
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Offline inteli722

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #464 on: Wed, 13 February 2013, 07:58:45 »
hmm...if you wanted to, you could swap out the switches in the Quiet Pro with the tactile switches and have a PC Tactile pro...anyone going to try that?
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Offline Grimey

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #465 on: Wed, 13 February 2013, 09:53:20 »
Since you have to buy the switches in increments of 200, I think I will have to finally break down and get a custom plate mode.  Probably do something like the Profist has done with remaining tenkeyless but filling in all the gaps everywhere else.
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Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #466 on: Wed, 13 February 2013, 11:11:30 »
hmm...if you wanted to, you could swap out the switches in the Quiet Pro with the tactile switches and have a PC Tactile pro...anyone going to try that?

Actually, it's even easier than that...

If you're careful, you can just swap the metal clicker, spring, and stem.  No soldering required (unless you happen to damage one of the switches).


Offline ValerieV

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #467 on: Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:46:54 »
I looked on your website and i didn't see the alps (that you sell separately) available for sale. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks.

Offline inteli722

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #468 on: Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:03:12 »
I looked on your website and i didn't see the alps (that you sell separately) available for sale. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks.

http://matias.ca/order/index1.php#matiaskeyswitches for people not on the email list
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Offline ValerieV

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #469 on: Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:34:49 »
Thanks!

Offline tufty

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #470 on: Thu, 14 February 2013, 11:29:47 »
Is the bottom-out an abrupt clack like with cherries, and if so, can you dampen it with o-rings?
Personally, I find Alps switches /vastly/ nicer to type on than cherries of any colour.  The Tactile Pro switches (mine's a relatively early model) /do/ bottom out hard if, like me, you type like a jackhammer.  O-rings would probably work, but I've not found any that fit in my "box-o-crap". Nor have I looked very hard elsewhere, it should be mentioned.  I don't know if the quiet switches bottom out softly or not.  But I'll know soon :)

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Offline Burz

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #471 on: Thu, 14 February 2013, 22:36:54 »
hmm...if you wanted to, you could swap out the switches in the Quiet Pro with the tactile switches and have a PC Tactile pro...anyone going to try that?

Actually, it's even easier than that...

If you're careful, you can just swap the metal clicker, spring, and stem.  No soldering required (unless you happen to damage one of the switches).

So maybe one could easily create switches that are both clicky + dampened?  :cool:
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Offline ValerieV

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #472 on: Sat, 16 February 2013, 11:35:49 »
I am going to buy one of the Mac bluetooth mini keyboards and swap them out with the orange alps. I wonder how hard it is going to be.  :confused:

Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #473 on: Sat, 16 February 2013, 17:36:40 »
I am going to buy one of the Mac bluetooth mini keyboards and swap them out with the orange alps. I wonder how hard it is going to be.  :confused:

To do that, you'd have to solder the Orange ALPS switches onto the Laptop Pro.

The internal parts from Orange ALPS won't fit in our switch.


Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #474 on: Sat, 16 February 2013, 18:00:40 »
I am going to buy one of the Mac bluetooth mini keyboards and swap them out with the orange alps. I wonder how hard it is going to be.  :confused:

Just out of curiosity — what do you consider to be better about orange Alps over Matias switches? Just the fact that Matias don't make undamped tactile? (If that's all you want, just remove the dampers from the sliders.)
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Offline Grimey

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #475 on: Sat, 16 February 2013, 20:42:17 »
While I am sure this was a misunderstanding, it is comical to note.

My shipment of new Matias Tactile Non-Clicky switch order arrived, a box with one switch in it.  I suspect I did order one unit, and this will all be taken care of, but $60 a switch seems a bit steep. 

And yes I put in an email about this with my order and tracking, but this may help other people be less surprised if they receive the same package as me.
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #476 on: Sat, 16 February 2013, 20:43:06 »
Think someone in the warehouse didn't have their morning coffee.
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Offline ValerieV

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #477 on: Sat, 16 February 2013, 21:27:39 »
I am going to buy one of the Mac bluetooth mini keyboards and swap them out with the orange alps. I wonder how hard it is going to be.  :confused:

Just out of curiosity — what do you consider to be better about orange Alps over Matias switches? Just the fact that Matias don't make undamped tactile? (If that's all you want, just remove the dampers from the sliders.)

I am not good enough at working with switches to remove dampers from the sliders. However, it is not relevant now because i didn't buy the orange alps and i am not going to modify a matias keyboard after all. My biggest problem is that i don't know how to remove and then replace the bigger keys from their stabilizers. It does limit me a bit when i modify a keyboard.

Offline calavera

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #478 on: Fri, 22 March 2013, 18:38:41 »
While I am sure this was a misunderstanding, it is comical to note.

My shipment of new Matias Tactile Non-Clicky switch order arrived, a box with one switch in it.  I suspect I did order one unit, and this will all be taken care of, but $60 a switch seems a bit steep. 

And yes I put in an email about this with my order and tracking, but this may help other people be less surprised if they receive the same package as me.

When did you order and how long did it take for them to arrive?

Offline Grimey

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #479 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 11:17:25 »
While I am sure this was a misunderstanding, it is comical to note.

My shipment of new Matias Tactile Non-Clicky switch order arrived, a box with one switch in it.  I suspect I did order one unit, and this will all be taken care of, but $60 a switch seems a bit steep. 

And yes I put in an email about this with my order and tracking, but this may help other people be less surprised if they receive the same package as me.

When did you order and how long did it take for them to arrive?

Probably a month and a half ago.  They arrived very quickly and everything was cleared up with the initial problem I had by the Matias company.  I suspect they arrived in a few days after ordering, though I am not able to see how to order the switches on the website anymore.
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Offline calavera

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #480 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 04:12:33 »
Yeah the link to the switches in their website is gone.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #481 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 19:11:43 »
I just wanted to bump this,  since I'm interested in comparing the clicky, tactile version of the Matias switch with some older ALPS boards I have. Will Matias begin selling the switches alone again in the future?

Offline Grimey

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #482 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 21:19:53 »
I just wanted to bump this,  since I'm interested in comparing the clicky, tactile version of the Matias switch with some older ALPS boards I have. Will Matias begin selling the switches alone again in the future?


Don't know about the future at Matias, but I believe that 7bit over on Deskthority has a number of these switches for sale.  Consider PMing him if you are interested in buying some.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #483 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 21:22:17 »
I just wanted to bump this,  since I'm interested in comparing the clicky, tactile version of the Matias switch with some older ALPS boards I have. Will Matias begin selling the switches alone again in the future?

You can buy them 200 at a time on their website.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #484 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 22:19:14 »
I just wanted to bump this,  since I'm interested in comparing the clicky, tactile version of the Matias switch with some older ALPS boards I have. Will Matias begin selling the switches alone again in the future?

You can buy them 200 at a time on their website.

I can't find them on there, unless it's somewhere buried, and that's why I asked the question. Do you have a link?

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #485 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 09:13:27 »
I just wanted to bump this,  since I'm interested in comparing the clicky, tactile version of the Matias switch with some older ALPS boards I have. Will Matias begin selling the switches alone again in the future?

You can buy them 200 at a time on their website.

I can't find them on there, unless it's somewhere buried, and that's why I asked the question. Do you have a link?

http://matias.ca/order/index1.php#matiaskeyswitches

Offline shrapneL

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #486 on: Sun, 16 February 2014, 14:45:17 »
Sorry if I missed it but were the switch datasheets ever posted?
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Offline grapenutster

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #487 on: Wed, 25 June 2014, 11:59:15 »
Got a pack of 200 Matias Tactile switches and swapped them in on for all but the locking capslock my Alps AEKII M3501.  Sadly they don't fit on the Mitsumi AEKII.  Got an Apple Adjustable M1242 on the way and I'll see how they compare with the supposed low-profile Alps.  Anybody know where one could source some backlight friendly Alps keycaps?
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #488 on: Wed, 25 June 2014, 16:39:13 »
Got a pack of 200 Matias Tactile switches and swapped them in on for all but the locking capslock my Alps AEKII M3501.  Sadly they don't fit on the Mitsumi AEKII.  Got an Apple Adjustable M1242 on the way and I'll see how they compare with the supposed low-profile Alps.  Anybody know where one could source some backlight friendly Alps keycaps?
I would avoid the Apple Adjustable. The shape is okay, but the switches are pretty meh, and not interchangeable with other Alps switches (or Matias switches), and the keycaps have a unique mount. Also, you definitely don’t want to take it apart, or desolder switches, etc., because it’s an incredible pain to put back together.

There aren’t any “backlight friendly” Alps keycaps as far as I know, unless you mean ones with led windows. (Which is just fine: backlights are ugly :)
« Last Edit: Wed, 25 June 2014, 16:43:02 by jacobolus »

Offline grapenutster

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #489 on: Wed, 25 June 2014, 18:28:40 »
oops, guess I'll maybe try to repost it on ebay or take it to the swap meet to trade heheh

I would avoid the Apple Adjustable. The shape is okay, but the switches are pretty meh, and not interchangeable with other Alps switches (or Matias switches), and the keycaps have a unique mount. Also, you definitely don’t want to take it apart, or desolder switches, etc., because it’s an incredible pain to put back together.

There aren’t any “backlight friendly” Alps keycaps as far as I know, unless you mean ones with led windows. (Which is just fine: backlights are ugly :)
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Offline Thanatermesis

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #490 on: Tue, 08 July 2014, 11:05:52 »
I'm thinking about lubricate the slider part of all my switches before to mount them on my ergodox, I tried with one and the feeling is pretty nice, its more soft, but im worried about the long-term of this improvement, for example, I assume that over the time would collect some small dust from the air itself, so maybe the feeling could become worse after 1-2 year using it.

Thoughts ?

Offline jacobolus

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #491 on: Mon, 14 July 2014, 21:52:18 »
I'm thinking about lubricate the slider part of all my switches before to mount them on my ergodox, I tried with one and the feeling is pretty nice, its more soft, but im worried about the long-term of this improvement, for example, I assume that over the time would collect some small dust from the air itself, so maybe the feeling could become worse after 1-2 year using it.

Thoughts ?
Use Krytox (for instance the “geekhackers” kits now available from a few distributors) and you should be pretty well set.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #492 on: Mon, 14 July 2014, 21:55:29 »
Matias: these guys http://stenosaurus.blogspot.com/2014/07/custom-key-caps-and-switches.html claim:
Quote
Instead, we're using the Matias ALPS-style key switches, which are relatively easy to make custom key caps for thanks to the rectangular mounting post. We hadn't considered Matias switches in our original deliberations because Matias only offered tactile click switches, which are both noisy (even the quiet-click variety) and cause finger fatigue.

We wanted both quiet and linear (non-click) for the Stenosaurus. Happily, after speaking directly with some friendly folks at Matias, they have agreed to create an entirely new type of switch to fit exactly those constraints.

Is there more info available about these new switches? Are they just Matias quiet switches with the tactile leaf completely removed, or is there still some kind of modified tactile leaf in there? Are the springs different?

Thanks.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #493 on: Mon, 14 July 2014, 22:09:31 »
Wow, surprising someone would want to ruin a great Alps switch by making it linear, but to each his own.

Offline Matias

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #494 on: Wed, 23 July 2014, 17:17:58 »
Matias: these guys http://stenosaurus.blogspot.com/2014/07/custom-key-caps-and-switches.html claim:
Quote
Instead, we're using the Matias ALPS-style key switches, which are relatively easy to make custom key caps for thanks to the rectangular mounting post. We hadn't considered Matias switches in our original deliberations because Matias only offered tactile click switches, which are both noisy (even the quiet-click variety) and cause finger fatigue.

We wanted both quiet and linear (non-click) for the Stenosaurus. Happily, after speaking directly with some friendly folks at Matias, they have agreed to create an entirely new type of switch to fit exactly those constraints.

Is there more info available about these new switches? Are they just Matias quiet switches with the tactile leaf completely removed, or is there still some kind of modified tactile leaf in there? Are the springs different?


New spring, no click leaf.  Will start working on them soon...


Offline Thanatermesis

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #495 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 03:14:39 »
I just finished my (ergonomic version) Ergodox with ALPS switches :) 

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: New switches from Matias -- 2 years in the making
« Reply #496 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 08:24:12 »
I am pretty excited about this.

I feel like such hipster scum when saying that I really like Alps. But I can't help it, I do. I also like the Matias quiet switches , so I am looking forward to trying this in the future, if my wallet allows it of course.

About a previous comment about the Matias quiet switches. I actually think they are pretty quiet. Comparing them directly to Cherry MX browns with 40 A-L o-rings they are actually much more quiet (I have some keyboards here literally side by side, so it is easy to compare). Most of the difference in volume comes from the difference in sound when using the stabilized keys such as space, backspace and enter. They are however louder than the silenced Topre. I would put them on par with most rubber dome keyboards. In that sense, I think they live up to their promise.

I get the finger fatigue thing though. I do not have it , but I do feel a slight "ringing" in my fingers after using the keyboard intensively for a long time, that is not there with lighter switches (MX browns and lighter).
« Last Edit: Thu, 24 July 2014, 08:31:04 by Grim Fandango »
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