Long-term Fate of the Keyboard

[Linkbane]

Stenotype can reach speeds of over 200 (and in very rare cases over 300) wpm. Faster than most people can comfortably and understandably speak. Though people can speak much faster with practice, and I'm sure that would be more common with voice recognition.

Also, would you want to say everything you type out loud? Everything?

Agreed, stenotype is very efficient for recording. However, it does require a great deal of training to reach a level of human speech.
I actually wouldn't mind saying everything I typed, but sometimes I would not like what I say typed. But with a noise-isolation, it shouldn't be too hard.
I'm just trying to refer to the general public. I am sure that a company would rather have all employees able to record words at over 150 and over twice that when speaking quickly. Just look at auctioneers; they're likely trained as much as stenographers or even less, but they can speak at over 600 wpm, completely impossible for typing.

Take the chip off your shoulder son, I'm not gonna fight you.

You try and bait me to an argument by ignoring what I say and then say that I'm trying to fight you. Aren't you supposed to be a "Moderator Supreme", not some argumentative fool using his age as comparison against me? It's funny that some moderator would be wasting their time arguing with users, when I was expressing an opinion. Good job 'moderating'.

[hashbaz]

You try and bait me to an argument by ignoring what I say and then say that I'm trying to fight you. Aren't you supposed to be a "Moderator Supreme", not some argumentative fool using his age as comparison against me? It's funny that some moderator would be wasting their time arguing with users, when I was expressing an opinion. Good job 'moderating'.

Chip. On. Shoulder.

[noisyturtle]

'XBOX, PLAY PORNOGRAPHY'

[Linkbane]

Chip. On. Shoulder.

Continue please. I am nonchalant.

[hashbaz]

Good!  So you're done being a belligerent ass?

For transcription and brainstorming and shooting off quick emails I agree that good voice recognition would be fabulous.  But for people who write for a living -- novelists, programmers, journalists -- I think that dictation is not a great means of input.  Composition is inherently a start/stop activity with a lot of downtime while thought occurs.  There is a lot of deleting, going back and editing, cursor movement.  Increased WPM is kind of pointless for these activities.  You can edit faster by keypress than by voice.  So I don't think keyboards are going anywhere.

[Linkbane]

Good!  So you're done being a belligerent ass?

For transcription and brainstorming and shooting off quick emails I agree that good voice recognition would be fabulous.  But for people who write for a living -- novelists, programmers, journalists -- I think that dictation is not a great means of input.  Composition is inherently a start/stop activity with a lot of downtime while thought occurs.  There is a lot of deleting, going back and editing, cursor movement.  Increased WPM is kind of pointless for these activities.  You can edit faster by keypress than by voice.  So I don't think keyboards are going anywhere.

I see that you begin to speak about my points when I've finished the arguments. If only you could have said this earlier instead of trying to start a flame war, perhaps we could speak cordially. I haven't called you any names, neither should you start the discourtesy.

OT: I'm pretty sure that any novelist or journalist would much prefer a dictation system. I write both poetry and prose, and speaking makes it both easier to record something in your head as well as well as freer in that one is not restricted to a computer; they could walk around a place of inspiration with just a microphone and/or some sort of small screen, such as Google Glass, and compose a novel there. I certainly feel that if I were able to record a poem as it came to mind rather than waiting to get to a computer (or pen/paper for that matter), I would have better writing.

[hashbaz]

You can't be ignorant of how rude and overreactive your posts in this thread have been.  You seem intent on taking and giving offense at every opportunity.  The phrase "belligerent ass" is not an empty insult; it's a carefully chosen description of your behavior.

Your one point seems to be that speaking is faster than typing.  But dictation is only one part of writing.  What about editing text?  Adding punctuation?  Correcting mistakes?  This is where a character-based input device excels and a word-based one becomes clunky.

[Thimplum]

I think that the keyboard is a good middle ground between efficient editing(paper and pencil) and creation speed(voice dictation).

[Linkbane]

You can't be ignorant of how rude and overreactive your posts in this thread have been.  You seem intent on taking and giving offense at every opportunity.  The phrase "belligerent ass" is not an empty insult; it's a carefully chosen description of your behavior.

Your one point seems to be that speaking is faster than typing.  But dictation is only one part of writing.  What about editing text?  Adding punctuation?  Correcting mistakes?  This is where a character-based input device excels and a word-based one becomes clunky.

Hardly, you seem to be the only one with any issue, and all that you respond with are insults.
Moreover, what irritates me about your behavior is the foolish way in which you attempt to portray facts. In a similar vein, I offer an example.

Your one point seems to be that cars are faster than walking. But speed is only one part of moving. What about building strength? Spiritual improvement? Seeing the environment? This is where walking excels and a car-based becomes clunky.

It's just nonsensical. Obviously having a different device will have certain very specific applications, while the majority is still supplanted. I'm finished being forced to make you digest facts, you can continue to delude nobody further if you wish.

[Thimplum]

You can't be ignorant of how rude and overreactive your posts in this thread have been.  You seem intent on taking and giving offense at every opportunity.  The phrase "belligerent ass" is not an empty insult; it's a carefully chosen description of your behavior.

Your one point seems to be that speaking is faster than typing.  But dictation is only one part of writing.  What about editing text?  Adding punctuation?  Correcting mistakes?  This is where a character-based input device excels and a word-based one becomes clunky.

Hardly, you seem to be the only one with any issue, and all that you respond with are insults.
Moreover, what irritates me about your behavior is the foolish way in which you attempt to portray facts. In a similar vein, I offer an example.

Your one point seems to be that cars are faster than walking. But speed is only one part of moving. What about building strength? Spiritual improvement? Seeing the environment? This is where walking excels and a car-based becomes clunky.

It's just nonsensical. Obviously having a different device will have certain very specific applications, while the majority is still supplanted. I'm finished being forced to make you digest facts, you can continue to delude nobody further if you wish.

I'm sick of car-tech analogies. I think that most on this forum, myself included, would agree with hashbaz. And this thread has become an argument between someone with 27 posts and a moderator. Not good.

[Halvar]

I see people walk all the time. It doesn't seem to have been replaced by the invention of the car. If you know what I mean.

[MTManiac]

Mm-hmmm.  Writing code would be sooo much better if all motion commands could reduced to "snap the cursor to my eye focus".

I have tried an eye-tracking system where the mouse pointer (not the keyboard cursor) could jump to where you were looking. It felt really weird and unintuitive.

That's because a tracking system like that doesn't know when to move the mouse so it is un-natural.
After working with neural interfaces for about a decade, so fun and yet frustrating at the same time, I can tell you the system needs to know when to move the mouse and when not to. Just like when you are sitting at a keyboard, your eyes move to look at all sorts of things, but your hand doesn't move the mouse everywhere you look, it would be tiresome.
A neural interface mouse will be the first big neural interface product for the mass public.
BUT!!! it will require some massive new algorithms and RosettaStone-esque training for the user before they are as proficient with it vs their hand eye coordination and a physical mouse.
The neural keyboard will be another decade or two after the neural mouse, there are too many input switches and retraining your brain to actuate every one will be INTENSE.
The real issue with neural interfaces is it requires crazy effort from the end user to get crazy results. The lazy plug and play generation won't be able to use the product, so there goes that huge target market. The same problems enthusiast markets face today. If we do see a neural mouse or keyboard it'll be a kickstarter (or whatever they use in 2025 lul) project and not something funded by a big corporation. Although the big corps will be gnashing at their bits to buy up the first company that makes the product.

(Just my opinion)

[fohat.digs]

There is a lot of deleting, going back and editing, cursor movement.

I think that this is the stumbling block.

What about the fact that many people like to work with their hands? Carpentry, for example, can be a job or a hobby.

Art? I can derive considerable satisfaction and enjoyment when I see or hold something that I have crafted something physically.

[Linkbane]

What about the fact that many people like to work with their hands? Carpentry, for example, can be a job or a hobby.

Well, when information recording becomes a hobby and not a job, I'm sure keyboards will make a resurgence. I'm not saying that some people won't want to use keyboards anymore, I just think that it's unreasonable to think that most people would want to use it when they could use their voice instead.
I'm keeping my boards. 99% of my friends probably won't.

[audioave10]

I think things are getting better all the time for mechanical keyboards. Example:
Two or three years ago, I could not buy (or find) a mechanical keyboard at NewEgg. We build gaming PC's constantly here and that's where all my parts are bought. Now, I have the choices of Ducky, Corsair and Cooler Master right from NewEgg. There are also other places to buy from too that weren't around 3 years ago. The gaming sites of Overclock.net and many others are full of threads about the almighty mechanical keyboard.
I see things improving myself. Lets hope it stays that way.

[davkol]

I see things improving myself. Lets hope it stays that way.

I fail to see it. Maybe we don't have the numbers yet, but I haven't noticed any notable breakthrough in impact on environment and computer-related injuries.

[meiosis]

I invested in two expensive Korean paperweights

[TheeCOoon]

Only if i could connect my keyboard to my ipad. Then keyboards will last FOREVER

[Thimplum]

I invested in two expensive Korean paperweights

Can I have one?

[ynrozturk]

I do not want to think of a life without a keyboard.

[microsoft windows]

Guess that's a good reason to buy more keyboards!

[Folio]

The keyboard will not be totally replaced until we have direct neural interfaces so we can think to type. Voice will never catch on because people don't want to say what they're typing and touch screen is impractical for anything serious.

Though the most serious typists don't use keyboards anyway, steno all the way at the top.

Stenographs could very well be replaced by voice input recorders in court room settings and depositions. The only problem is how the machine will recognize and label whoever is speaking. Maybe a voice recognition test at the beginning of every case could help ID people's differing voices and tones.

[Findecanor]

This was posted around the web a couple of days ago:

[abdulmuhsee]

The problem with voice recognition is the fact that human vocal chords have a limit as to how much they can comfortably handle within compressed periods of time.

I've narrated for a couple audiobooks, and I can say that my throat was most definitely starting to feel coarse by the tenth page during a recording session.  I would much rather type tens of pages than speak tens of pages out loud, since it can be done so without as much strain on the body.  Try reading a chapter of a novel to your significant other or child and see how far you can get before it gets tiring.

Also, there are many environments where data entry cannot possibly be done via human voice.  For example, if I am a teacher in a classroom and need to get some data entry done while students are working on an assignment or test, it could not be done in the same room with voice recognition.

In short, unless there is some sort of unbelievable, practical technology which has not yet been mentioned in this thread (neural implants being impractical/science fiction), then I cannot possibly see how keyboards would ever become obsolete.  I'm willing to entertain the possibility for fun, but not as a serious argument unless there's an input device I haven't yet considered.

[Leslieann]

The problem with voice recognition is the fact that human vocal chords have a limit as to how much they can comfortably handle within compressed periods of time.

Good point as well.
I don't think most people realize how hard that is on your vocal chords. Even an extended work day can tax your voice.

[Linkbane]

In short, unless there is some sort of unbelievable, practical technology which has not yet been mentioned in this thread (neural implants being impractical/science fiction), then I cannot possibly see how keyboards would ever become obsolete.  I'm willing to entertain the possibility for fun, but not as a serious argument unless there's an input device I haven't yet considered.

Wonderful. The bias is incredibly arrogant in how you speak; how many people would ever type more than ten pages in a single day? Even authors are hardly likely to write half that much in a single day; there are options far more efficient (e.g. stenography) than typing without the kinds of outlandish ideas that you propose. Just like how pressing a key three times for a letter is impractical on the phone, the most efficient way to record words and type will certainly not be through pressing a one or two keys for a letter, as stenography is far, far faster than typing, with well trained typists in the mid-300's of wpm, at or above talking speed. It's hardly unbelievable and teaching a data entry specialist to type on a stenography machine is more efficient than hiring three to type at the same speed on a keyboard.

It's just foolish to assume that a keyboard is the best solution, just because we're used to it. I would liken it to horse riders saying that without some form of teleportation or rocket, you couldn't be better than a horse, ignoring the fact that a car can go many, many times faster and that the problem with them is that they make them bored from sitting. A keyboard is hardly the most optimized tool.

[abdulmuhsee]

...teaching a data entry specialist to type on a stenography machine is more efficient than hiring three to type at the same speed on a keyboard.

It's just foolish to assume that a keyboard is the best solution, just because we're used to it.

So keyboards should be replaced by stenography machines?  If it can just as easily produce the full spectrum of language, but at faster speeds, then I don't see why not.  I wonder why they don't teach stenography instead of keyboarding in school by now?

I don't entirely understand how a stenography machine works (how could I without special training?), but from what I've read, you need to "memorize" certain combinations of letters that represent common phrases you are likely to hear.  For example, T K P W O G = Guilty or Not Guilty and T K P WR A R PL = Grievous Bodily Harm.

Seems incredibly confusing to me, and that's most likely why it has never even been proposed as being a standard data entry device.  If I was writing a story or a paper and looking for a specific description, like melancholy, to make a scene or an argument "pop," how many hours of training would it require for me to understand the combination of letters I need to use in order to reproduce that word? 

According to various court reporter training programs I looked up, it can require multiple years to be proficient in using a stenography machine.  A keyboard, on the other hand, almost anyone can use, regardless of how fast or slow they can type.  Does taking 2-4 years out of your life to learn basic stenography skills really sound practical as a standard data entry solution for the majority of people?

It just doesn't seem practical for your average office worker or guy typing in a website at home, and I'd bet good money on the keyboard remaining as the best solution for the masses.

[Linkbane]

...teaching a data entry specialist to type on a stenography machine is more efficient than hiring three to type at the same speed on a keyboard.

It's just foolish to assume that a keyboard is the best solution, just because we're used to it.

So keyboards should be replaced by stenography machines?  If it can just as easily produce the full spectrum of language, but at faster speeds, then I don't see why not.  I wonder why they don't teach stenography instead of keyboarding in school by now?

I don't entirely understand how a stenography machine works (how could I without special training?), but from what I've read, you need to "memorize" certain combinations of letters that represent common phrases you are likely to hear.  For example, T K P W O G = Guilty or Not Guilty and T K P WR A R PL = Grievous Bodily Harm.

Seems incredibly confusing to me, and that's most likely why it has never even been proposed as being a standard data entry device.  If I was writing a story or a paper and looking for a specific description, like melancholy, to make a scene or an argument "pop," how many hours of training would it require for me to understand the combination of letters I need to use in order to reproduce that word? 

According to various court reporter training programs I looked up, it can require multiple years to be proficient in using a stenography machine.  A keyboard, on the other hand, almost anyone can use, regardless of how fast or slow they can type.  Does taking 2-4 years out of your life to learn basic stenography skills really sound practical as a standard data entry solution for the majority of people?

It just doesn't seem practical for your average office worker or guy typing in a website at home, and I'd bet good money on the keyboard remaining as the best solution for the masses.

The fact that a stenography machine confuses you is hardly a reason to not use it. Again, looking at it objectively, a keyboard is not the most efficient way to enter data, as you conceded. For the masses, it is cheap and therefore accessible, but the more expensive equipment always becomes cheaper. I guarantee that over 99% of people enter in less words than would be uncomfortable on a voice transcriber.

[hashbaz]

Heya Linkbane long time no see! How have you been?

[Linkbane]

Heya Linkbane long time no see! How have you been?

Very well, I've been promoted to chief thread extender.