Help me decide on ergonomical keyboards, pref. ortho + split/angled

[moosedawg]

Didn't realize you were the Kinesis rep until now. You should make a version of the keyboard with silent reds So far my coworkers haven't complained but my keyboard is definitely the loudest in the team. I think it would also be good if you managed to reduce the amount of resonance in the case for Advantage3

As for me, I think it should be possible to get a tool and open up all the switches and put silent red stems in them. Ought to be cheaper than replacing the keywells, easier than re-soldering each key and I'd get silenced switches that aren't normally available. The housing for MX brown and (silent) reds are identical, right? Maybe I'll do it if I can buy this kbd from my employer eventually, or if I find really cheap silent red stems somewhere

Eh, I wasn't very impressed with the "silent" switches. I think that word has a completely different meaning when it comes to keyboards. A more honest name would be something like "Cherry slightly-muted-Reds".  I think if we sold a version of our keyboard with "silent" switches advertised, we would have a lot of disappointed customers.   

Personally, I prefer Cherry Reds with rubber O-rings installed on the thumb keys which I tend to bang away more than I do with the alpha/numeric keys, plus I do like the "thud" sound it generates for the space key, but that's just me

Agreed, the cherry silent switches sound odd. They are far from silent and have almost an unnatural "thunk" to them. Almost as if you were typing on wooden keys. It's hard to explain, but it's just weird sounding imo. I too prefer the feel and sound of reds with the o-rings installed. I find the o-rings make normal reds much more "silent" than the special "silent" keys. And I like the feel it gives them too. I think they feel much better with the o-rings, makes the occasional bottoming out just a wee softer. Definitely a fan of the reds with o-rings. I tried the o-rings on browns, and I didn't like it as much. I thought I would really like browns in general, but they felt kind of mushy to me. Or maybe a bit grindy/wiggly at the nearly imperceptible bump. At least that's the best way I know how to explain the feeling I got while using them. I was under the impression they were essentially silent blues, but not even close. They were way softer and way less bump imo. I really liked blues, but I went to a split keyboard, and the one I got sadly had rubber domes, although they are really low force (44 g) so it's been a very nice keyboard. I can never go back to a regular keyboard now, which is fine by me, it hurts my wrists and thumb anyway, so good riddance!

[davkol]

O-ring is just a shape. The actual product varies greatly in hardness, size and durability.

hardness: 100A or even 70A o-rings (on keycaps) don't really dampen anything at all; the impact is about as hard as without them. OTOH, 30-40A o-rings may feel quite mushy.

size: A thin o-ring in an SA keycap won't do anything at all, while a thick one on a Cherry keycap may even prevent the switch from actuating.

Cherry MX Silent switches, on the other hand, work with _any_ keycaps, hardly affect travel at all and come in a well-defined dampener hardness. Besides, they also dampen the upstroke a bit, which o-rings on keycaps obviously can't.

[natas206]

Agreed, the cherry silent switches sound odd. They are far from silent and have almost an unnatural "thunk" to them. Almost as if you were typing on wooden keys. It's hard to explain, but it's just weird sounding imo. I too prefer the feel and sound of reds with the o-rings installed. I find the o-rings make normal reds much more "silent" than the special "silent" keys. And I like the feel it gives them too. I think they feel much better with the o-rings, makes the occasional bottoming out just a wee softer. Definitely a fan of the reds with o-rings. I tried the o-rings on browns, and I didn't like it as much. I thought I would really like browns in general, but they felt kind of mushy to me. Or maybe a bit grindy/wiggly at the nearly imperceptible bump. At least that's the best way I know how to explain the feeling I got while using them. I was under the impression they were essentially silent blues, but not even close. They were way softer and way less bump imo. I really liked blues, but I went to a split keyboard, and the one I got sadly had rubber domes, although they are really low force (44 g) so it's been a very nice keyboard. I can never go back to a regular keyboard now, which is fine by me, it hurts my wrists and thumb anyway, so good riddance!

Regarding the Cherry Browns, I think it has to do with using a linear switch like a Red for a while. Going back to a tactile switch like the Browns can feel "mushy" like you say or "scratchy". That was my expirience anyway. I used Browns for about 10 years. Tried Reds for several months and as soon as I switched back to Browns I immediately felt the "scratchiness", which I never noticed prior to using the Reds. A linear switch may just simply feel a lot "smoother". I also tested some Gateron Browns, and those are the most scratchy switches I've ever tried. Not sure if people prefer that kind of feel or if it's just a poor switch, but I wasn't really a fan (again though that may simply be because I developed a taste for the Reds).

[natas206]

O-ring is just a shape. The actual product varies greatly in hardness, size and durability.

hardness: 100A or even 70A o-rings (on keycaps) don't really dampen anything at all; the impact is about as hard as without them. OTOH, 30-40A o-rings may feel quite mushy.

size: A thin o-ring in an SA keycap won't do anything at all, while a thick one on a Cherry keycap may even prevent the switch from actuating.

Cherry MX Silent switches, on the other hand, work with _any_ keycaps, hardly affect travel at all and come in a well-defined dampener hardness. Besides, they also dampen the upstroke a bit, which o-rings on keycaps obviously can't.

Right, there are a lot of O-ring sizes available, some of which would not be suitable for mechanical keyboards. Typically though when buying O-rings from a mechanical keyboard site they only offer a smaller range of sizes and the most common, wasdkeyboards.com for example offers 40A-R and 40A-L, which along with 50A-L are typically what people use for their keyboards (here and here are a couple of good threads on the different sizes of o-rings).

And yes, the big advantage Silent Reds have over O-rings is a reduced sound on the release which is something O-rings will not help with. They definitely are a bit more muted. I just however wasn't very impressed with them as a "silent" switch.

[davkol]

They're between Zealencio and QMX Clips IMHO; the QMX Clips are actually very efficient, Zealencios just barely.

I wish they were as good as Alps SKCM Damped Cream.

[tex_live_utility]

If you're into small keyboards, there is the Iris keyboard, made by http://keeb.io. The thumb keys aren't really a cluster, and they're much closer to the rest of the keys. As a guy with small hands (too small for an Ergodox, even with tenting), it looks like just what I'd want. Currently waiting for plates and cases to come back in stock.

[JohanAR]

I actually have a keeb.io Nyquist in progress. Though I wanted a metal switchplate but not with 2u cutouts so I'm planning on ordering one from lasergist instead, it just hasn't happened yet. I also need to order some switches now that I've decided on using MX Silent Reds.. Unless I should order some Speed Silvers and try.. hmm.. Iris seems like a good concept but I don't like the placement of the innermost thumb buttons as I don't like pressing keys with my thumb curled inwards like that. Going to give the Nyquist a chance and I'll see what I think about matrix layout, I'll mostly use it for gaming anyway

Btw. I jammed the Kinesis Adv2 I got for work full with anti-static foam rubber which made it sound much more pleasant while typing. It's not quiet but it got rid of most reverberations and pressing a key now sounds more like thoc than the pling sound it had before

[dustpuppy]

I’d strongly recommend a QMK based solution. The non-programmable keyboard solution just can’t compare to the power of a fully programmable keyboard. My recommendation is Ergodox EZ if you’re willing to got with a split layout, or Atreus62 if you want to stay with a single piece keyboard. The latency concerns on Ergodox EZ are non-existent. I’ve never heard anyone complain about them. I’ve never witnessed them myself, and i’m very sensitive to any kind of lag. My ergodox EZ keeps me happy at work every day. And even after a year and a half of ownership, I never get tired of customizing my layout.