[IC] Hubble Mira Custom TKL (GB is 3... 2... 1... launched!)

[DrHubblePhD]

Update: I spoke with a potential milling recourse, it may be far more cost efficient to simply engrave the "Mira" logo onto the top of the case. Moreover, the logo may not look right cut through hole seeing that rounded drill bits will not be able to get defined corners on the font.

I would be interested to hear if this would deter anyone from  buying seeing that it will likely lower the cost considerably.  I should have a quote in the next day or two, but the estimate he gave me on the spot seemed very reasonable after the alterations are made to the logo.

[fatchoi]

Update: I spoke with a potential milling recourse, it may be far more cost efficient to simply engrave the "Mira" logo onto the top of the case. Moreover, the logo may not look right cut through hole seeing that rounded drill bits will not be able to get defined corners on the font.

I would be interested to hear if this would deter anyone from  buying seeing that it will likely lower the cost considerably.  I should have a quote in the next day or two, but the estimate he gave me on the spot seemed very reasonable after the alterations are made to the logo.

Do you mind disclosing the cost estimate pre and post changing the logo?

[DrHubblePhD]

Update: I spoke with a potential milling recourse, it may be far more cost efficient to simply engrave the "Mira" logo onto the top of the case. Moreover, the logo may not look right cut through hole seeing that rounded drill bits will not be able to get defined corners on the font.

I would be interested to hear if this would deter anyone from  buying seeing that it will likely lower the cost considerably.  I should have a quote in the next day or two, but the estimate he gave me on the spot seemed very reasonable after the alterations are made to the logo.

Do you mind disclosing the cost estimate pre and post changing the logo?

Well the estimate he gave me was for the milling cost alone. The price I release will be the price I intend to sell the board at. That said, I am not willing to release the tally of all costs that factor into the cost-to-buyer price estimate.

Or at least for now. Trust me when I say I am keeping profit to an absolute minimum, and have logged my hours working on this project to be sure I am not being unreasonable.

[njbair]

I for one would still buy with an engraved logo instead of the cutout. That said, would there be anything on the board that lights up then?

[DrHubblePhD]

I for one would still buy with an engraved logo instead of the cutout. That said, would there be anything on the board that lights up then?

The b.Mira PCB supports full backlighting on all switches, but in terms of case elements, probably not if we choose to go with engraving.

[sethk_]

I think I would actually rather have the engraving over the cutout

[Cottonsox]

I am not deterred by having the logo engraved.

Is the main issue with the MIRA part of the logo? Is it possible to do a combination but still keep costs down? Engrave the letters, but have the circles milled outg and still be able to use your pcb design to have LED's shine thru.

[Sifo]

It's YOUR design, as long as YOU are okay with it then I will be. Don't release it until it's perfection.

[ccarlitos2]

I will probably buy this either way. More likely to the cheaper it is. If you are okay with it being engraved then do it that way!

[njbair]

It seems a shame to lose the lighting altogether. What if the front just had the two circles cut through and the rest of the logo engraved? That would be a much simpler cutting operation than the whole logo.

[DrHubblePhD]

It seems a shame to lose the lighting altogether. What if the front just had the two circles cut through and the rest of the logo engraved? That would be a much simpler cutting operation than the whole logo.

Ill look into this however im not to certain that the glow would look right being un-centered above the arrow cluster. If it were dark and you were relying on the back light it would probably looks strange. Either way ill investigate. However, I feel more inclined to keep the price down and allow more people the chance to participate in the buy.

[CommonCurt]

I think I would actually rather have the engraving over the cutout

That's a +1 for me

[ghostjuggernaut]

I agree with Sifo. Given the option, I would choose engraving over a cutout. I like the idea of the cutout, but would most likely never use it. Regardless of your decision, I plan on buying one.

[user 18]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I would prefer the cutout -- it's something that feels unique to this board. Without that, it's almost like this is just another aluminum board with an engraved logo.

Won't stop me from buying either way, but just throwing it out there.

[FoC_Tow]

Update: I spoke with a potential milling recourse, it may be far more cost efficient to simply engrave the "Mira" logo onto the top of the case. Moreover, the logo may not look right cut through hole seeing that rounded drill bits will not be able to get defined corners on the font.

I would be interested to hear if this would deter anyone from  buying seeing that it will likely lower the cost considerably.  I should have a quote in the next day or two, but the estimate he gave me on the spot seemed very reasonable after the alterations are made to the logo.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I would prefer the cutout -- it's something that feels unique to this board. Without that, it's almost like this is just another aluminum board with an engraved logo.

Won't stop me from buying either way, but just throwing it out there.

To be honest I'm very sad to see that it seems like we are the minority atm but I would very much prefer the cutout acrylic logo over engraving as well.

The acrylic Mira Logo is definitely a very unique feature of the design that makes it very different from being just another tkl and loosing out on it would take a way quite a lot from the original design that simple engraving just can't replace for imo.

I could definitely understand if the font of the logo had to be changed or simplified for easier machining, but engraving really doesn't seem like an appropriate alternative to me to live up with the beauty of the original design...

[Heliosphere]

I also feel that the cutout makes the Mira more special compared to just engraving. Is there any way the cutout can be made with higher precision methods like laser or water-jet cutting? I doubt it would make it any easier or cheaper to manufacture, but they're viable alternatives. In any case, I'll be buying the kit whether or not it has the cutout or LEDs.

[DrHubblePhD]

Well I'm happy to see that you guys wouldn't be completely opposed to it. On the bright side, I just got the palette of color options and they have many of the colors we rendered earlier.

[Cottonsox]

exciting news! Can't wait to see what color options are chosen!

[LXXXIX]

I think the dropping the cutout will definitely lose it's charm/uniqueness, but I still would prefer the engraving seeing as I wouldn't really use the lighting on the logo. Making the price have a better sweet spot is a plus too.

I'm all for seeing YOUR vision come to life. I'm rooting for you DrHubblePhD!

[baldgye]

It's YOUR design, as long as YOU are okay with it then I will be. Don't release it until it's perfection.

Please this.
Design by comity is bad and has always been bad for a reason.

[DrHubblePhD]

It's YOUR design, as long as YOU are okay with it then I will be. Don't release it until it's perfection.

Please this.
Design by comity is bad and has always been bad for a reason.

Understood, just want to be sure that those who showed interest would not be deterred. I consider this a project for the benefit of geekhack, not a project for me that could also help the community.

[Sygaldry]

I am not opposed to engraving the logo

[monotagary]

I liked the cutout logo a lot, but if it were engraved that would not stop me from getting a kit. I still think that it is going to have enough unique features (the SS weight on the bottom and the large number of color options) to make it stand out from the pack.

Hubble, I think that a majority of us here on GH, well those that are into customs, are going to want to get in on this board, no matter what design you finally settle on.

[abjr]

What would the engraving look like? Would it be similar to an OTD 360c? Or could it be infilled somehow like fog's Cartesian Longboard?

I don't necessarily care if the logo is an acrylic insert, but I think it would be nice if it was two-tone somehow so it stands out.

[baldgye]

It's YOUR design, as long as YOU are okay with it then I will be. Don't release it until it's perfection.

Please this.
Design by comity is bad and has always been bad for a reason.

Understood, just want to be sure that those who showed interest would not be deterred. I consider this a project for the benefit of geekhack, not a project for me that could also help the community.

I think things like that should be down to you, as this is your design and you should have some say in how it looks. The only thing imo people should have a say in is things like winkey less cases etc and other layout type things It's your design, your board, your name make it look ballin' how you see fit

(winkey ftw btw B-) haha)

[FoC_Tow]

I think the dropping the cutout will definitely lose it's charm/uniqueness, but I still would prefer the engraving seeing as I wouldn't really use the lighting on the logo. Making the price have a better sweet spot is a plus too.

I'm all for seeing YOUR vision come to life. I'm rooting for you DrHubblePhD!

It's YOUR design, as long as YOU are okay with it then I will be. Don't release it until it's perfection.

Please this.
Design by comity is bad and has always been bad for a reason.

Understood, just want to be sure that those who showed interest would not be deterred. I consider this a project for the benefit of geekhack, not a project for me that could also help the community.

I agree and support that its your design and decision DrHubble! 
However just to be honest and voice my opinion, I personally would be pretty much completely opposed to going with engraving rather then acrylic inlay.

I'm not usually that stoked about lighting or acrylic parts and I'm actually surprised my self it means that much to me on your design.
But the acrylic Mira logo really adds to the overall impression and made the design very unique imo, and loosing out on it might actually end up being a determining factor for me.

I'm also generally not a big fan of engravings to be honest, and going with engraving would to me feel like going with something pretty common rather then something very unique.



Since I can imagine the machining of both case and acrylic to fit perfectly to be pretty expensive and difficult, could it be an option to for example:

- make a rectangle recess on the inside of the case for a simple rectangle piece of acrylic to sit in, then only cutout the Mira logo in the thin aluminum layer above?
(so pretty much have the acrylic below the aluminum rather then sit flush in the cutout to simplify machining)

- make a rectangle cutout all the way thru so you get a flush (or maybe slightly recessed to cover possible gaps on fitting) rectangle acrylic piece on the top and then engrave the logo in the acrylic?
(so pretty much replace part of the case with rectangle acrylic and engrave acrylic just as you would the case itself)

- make a rectangle recess on top to fit a thin metal plate flush with the case, on which the logo could be laser/water cut, which should be a lot cheaper then cnc I guess. Then just fit a slightly smaller piece of acrylic in a cutout below.
(so pretty much replace part of the case with a thin plate with the logo cutout and have acrylic below)

Sorry for the long text btw but I just wanted to throw out some ideas that came to mind to simplify machining while still keeping the unique style of a acrylic logo... 

[DrHubblePhD]

I think the dropping the cutout will definitely lose it's charm/uniqueness, but I still would prefer the engraving seeing as I wouldn't really use the lighting on the logo. Making the price have a better sweet spot is a plus too.

I'm all for seeing YOUR vision come to life. I'm rooting for you DrHubblePhD!

It's YOUR design, as long as YOU are okay with it then I will be. Don't release it until it's perfection.

Please this.
Design by comity is bad and has always been bad for a reason.

Understood, just want to be sure that those who showed interest would not be deterred. I consider this a project for the benefit of geekhack, not a project for me that could also help the community.

[/more]

Okay here is the scoop. I appreciate your ideas, however the issue is that through cutting would probably ruin the font. I just recieved my quote for the engraved version. While I don't have a price for you yet, I will say that you will likely not like the price if we were to keep the insert and top through hole cut.

We will still include the rgb LED's on the PCB, and in the future, if there is enough interest, we could separately produce a second version of the top with the original cutout and insert.

Edit: sorry missed the concept of some of your ideas. I would be worried with a plate or block that it would detract from the cleaness of the design.

[FoC_Tow]

Okay here is the scoop. I appreciate your ideas, however the issue is that through cutting would probably ruin the font. I just recieved my quote for the engraved version. While I don't have a price for you yet, I will say that you will likely not like the price if we were to keep the insert and top through hole cut.

We will still include the rgb LED's on the PCB, and in the future, if there is enough interest, we could separately produce a second version of the top with the original cutout and insert.

I can definitely understand the acrylic logo would mean additional difficulties.
However I'm not sure if I understand correctly what you mean by 'through cutting would probably ruin the font'.

I understand your original concern that,

the logo may not look right cut through hole seeing that rounded drill bits will not be able to get defined corners on the font.

But I don't really see the issue with engraving into acrylic vs aluminum (since the result should be similar I guess) or even laser cutting the logo into a thin plate (since laser cutting should also be able to create defined corners unlike the drill bits and therefore fix the issue of the font being ruined afaik)...

It should also be significantly cheaper since you would only have to machine the font into the acrylic or metal rather then both, as well as the fact that laser cutting should be a cheaper machining option then doing it with cnc.

I very much understand the original design would be expensive and difficult to realize, but I think something along this lines would minimize the add-on cost for the logo quite a lot, and I personally wouldn't mind paying a bit more for the beauty of the OG design... =)

[unoab]

What about engraving and then infill with a glow in the dark epoxy?  Then it will light up in the dark, sort of mimicking the original lighting but would still be cheaper since it is just engraving.  It will not be able to have the lighting change color though and will be very dependent on ambient light, but so are the stars, so I would feel it fits the theme.

[SixtyLife]

I'd be totally fine with engraving

[DrHubblePhD]

Okay here is the scoop. I appreciate your ideas, however the issue is that through cutting would probably ruin the font. I just recieved my quote for the engraved version. While I don't have a price for you yet, I will say that you will likely not like the price if we were to keep the insert and top through hole cut.

We will still include the rgb LED's on the PCB, and in the future, if there is enough interest, we could separately produce a second version of the top with the original cutout and insert.

I can definitely understand the acrylic logo would mean additional difficulties.
However I'm not sure if I understand correctly what you mean by 'through cutting would probably ruin the font'.

I understand your original concern that,

the logo may not look right cut through hole seeing that rounded drill bits will not be able to get defined corners on the font.

But I don't really see the issue with engraving into acrylic vs aluminum (since the result should be similar I guess) or even laser cutting the logo into a thin plate (since laser cutting should also be able to create defined corners unlike the drill bits and therefore fix the issue of the font being ruined afaik)...

It should also be significantly cheaper since you would only have to machine the font into the acrylic or metal rather then both, as well as the fact that laser cutting should be a cheaper machining option then doing it with cnc.

I very much understand the original design would be expensive and difficult to realize, but I think something along this lines would minimize the add-on cost for the logo quite a lot, and I personally wouldn't mind paying a bit more for the beauty of the OG design... =)

Im simply concerned that it would negatively effect the aesthetic of the case

Using paint or epoxy you could easily create a two tone look like I have on my Corsa.
What about engraving and then infill with a glow in the dark epoxy?  Then it will light up in the dark, sort of mimicking the original lighting but would still be cheaper since it is just engraving.  It will not be able to have the lighting change color though and will be very dependent on ambient light, but so are the stars, so I would feel it fits the theme.

[FoC_Tow]

I understand it would also change aesthetics and might not match everyones taste Hubble...

Just to be better explain what I meant, and incase people haven't seen it before i searched for an example of engraved clear acrylic under LED lighting.

So this for example would create a window like area to showcase the pcb and still only light up the engraving that reflects the light.
It would however still be quite different from the original design, and your right a plate might also affect aesthetics.

The first idea would basically maintain pretty much the same look but also involves cnc machining which will be difficult on the font...
So I can definitely understand your concerns.

[Data]

The acrylic insert seemed like a major feature. I'd be sad to see it go but it wouldn't dissuade me from buying. I'm interested to see your alternative ideas.

Also I find it funny that you keep typing "recourse". 

[DrHubblePhD]

The acrylic insert seemed like a major feature. I'd be sad to see it go but it wouldn't dissuade me from buying. I'm interested to see your alternative ideas.

Also I find it funny that you keep typing "recourse". 

haha how did i not catch that? well you know how those CNC shops work 

Yeah its sad to see the feature go, but I think you guys will be happier with the overall result.

[DrHubblePhD]

So another update, to save a signifigant cost we will not be doing cutouts that allow for opening switch tops while plate mounted. The same options in terms of short right shift, off centered caps lock etc. will still be availible. We are refining our price estimate now, just trying to get the cost down since manufacturing in 'Murica is more expensive than over seas manufacturing.

We will likely also be offering different plate materials.

[FrostyToast]

So another update, to save a signifigant cost we will not be doing cutouts that allow for opening switch tops while plate mounted. The same options in terms of short right shift, off centered caps lock etc. will still be availible. We are refining our price estimate now, just trying to get the cost down since manufacturing in 'Murica is more expensive than over seas manufacturing.

We will likely also be offering different plate materials.

Good choice!
Honestly, switch top removal isn't that useful after you have found your ideal switch. If you're going to spend $500 on a board you should take the time to figure out what switch you would like on it.

[CPTBadAss]

It's YOUR design, as long as YOU are okay with it then I will be. Don't release it until it's perfection.

Damn ****ing right.


DrHubblePHD, have you considered doing an engraving then laser cutting an acrylic insert to fit into that engraving groove? Kind of like how the Kingsaver has? That way you could have options and colors again without driving up the costs too much.

Also I don't think there's anything wrong with engraving.

[FrostyToast]

It's YOUR design, as long as YOU are okay with it then I will be. Don't release it until it's perfection.

Damn ****ing right.


DrHubblePHD, have you considered doing an engraving then laser cutting an acrylic insert to fit into that engraving groove? Kind of like how the Kingsaver has? That way you could have options and colors again without driving up the costs too much.

Also I don't think there's anything wrong with engraving.

Well the point of the acrylic insert was to have it lit up via an rgb strip. With your idea, if I am not mistaken, the acrylic insert couldn't be lit up therefore rendering it pointless.
This is also a matter of saving on costs and a design like that might get not get us the price we want to hit.

[CPTBadAss]

Well the point of the acrylic insert was to have it lit up via an rgb strip. With your idea, if I am not mistaken, the acrylic insert couldn't be lit up therefore rendering it pointless.
This is also a matter of saving on costs and a design like that might get not get us the price we want to hit.

Engrave it, punch two or three holes in the case top for a little LED strip to shine through, put the acrylic insert over it, boom lit. Drill press should be a less setup and cost than actually milling that all out.

And you could get different acrylic colors even with it not lit so if you're like sifo, you could get a blue case with a pink acrylic insert.

[FrostyToast]

Well the point of the acrylic insert was to have it lit up via an rgb strip. With your idea, if I am not mistaken, the acrylic insert couldn't be lit up therefore rendering it pointless.
This is also a matter of saving on costs and a design like that might get not get us the price we want to hit.

Engrave it, punch two or three holes in the case top for a little LED strip to shine through, put the acrylic insert over it, boom lit. Drill press should be a less setup and cost than actually milling that all out.

That idea definitely has potential however I wouldn't expect the light to diffuse very evenly.
If you look at pictures of duck boards with their acrylic inserts, even when sanded down and frosted, you can clearly see two areas where the light is significantly stronger.
A simple engraving would give us a much cleaner result and I wouldn't want to half ass the design of the acrylic insert idea. Just my two cents.

[CPTBadAss]

It's certainly not going to get fixed with a pessimistic attitude

[FrostyToast]

It's certainly not going to get fixed with a pessimistic attitude

Honestly, I really wanted the idea to work, but the problem with the design like many others is that it will end up looking noticeably underwhelming if not done really well.
It could either look amazing or really ugly.
Also, I won't reveal the quote that was given, but it is a bit on the high end already and now we really need to put good thought into what we put into this board.

[CPTBadAss]

Honestly, I really wanted the idea to work, but the problem with the design like many others is that it will end up looking noticeably underwhelming if not done really well.

It could either look amazing or really ugly.

Also, I won't reveal the quote that was given, but it is a bit on the high end already and now we really need to put good thought into what we put into this board.

You're pretty eager to nitpick at ideas but I don't see you coming up with any to solve the issue. Like I said, problems won't get solved with a pessimistic attitude. It won't be done really well if you shoot it down at first glance. It was simply a suggestion and I'm sure it could work with a little tweaking. But it is also a suggestion and I would be happy to see an engraving.

[baldgye]

Honestly, I really wanted the idea to work, but the problem with the design like many others is that it will end up looking noticeably underwhelming if not done really well.

It could either look amazing or really ugly.

Also, I won't reveal the quote that was given, but it is a bit on the high end already and now we really need to put good thought into what we put into this board.

You're pretty eager to nitpick at ideas but I don't see you coming up with any to solve the issue. Like I said, problems won't get solved with a pessimistic attitude. It won't be done really well if you shoot it down at first glance. It was simply a suggestion and I'm sure it could work with a little tweaking. But it is also a suggestion and I would be happy to see an engraving.

he seemed to make pretty fair and valid points though?

[DrHubblePhD]

Honestly, I really wanted the idea to work, but the problem with the design like many others is that it will end up looking noticeably underwhelming if not done really well.

It could either look amazing or really ugly.

Also, I won't reveal the quote that was given, but it is a bit on the high end already and now we really need to put good thought into what we put into this board.

You're pretty eager to nitpick at ideas but I don't see you coming up with any to solve the issue. Like I said, problems won't get solved with a pessimistic attitude. It won't be done really well if you shoot it down at first glance. It was simply a suggestion and I'm sure it could work with a little tweaking. But it is also a suggestion and I would be happy to see an engraving.

This is a valid option. I am not personally willing to put holes into a product this expensive, however I would be happy to release dimensions and sketches if someone wanted to get a piece of acrylic cut.

As Frosty mentioned, the cost is already high, I would prefer to keep cost down by keeping it simple. This is GeekHACK, if you would like to hack the Mira after you receive it, I would be happy to assist.

[FrostyToast]

The other option which I wouldn't be opposed to is changing the font slightly so that it would work with the round drill bits. I don't know if Drhubblephd would want to go with that, especially with the aforementioned cost issue.
The acrylic insert could also just be a flat piece that would go under the top casing which would be dirt cheap. Light would still diffuse properly and evenly enough. Spacing might be tough however. 

[abjr]

What would the engraving look like? Would it be similar to an OTD 360c? Or could it be infilled somehow like fog's Cartesian Longboard?

I don't necessarily care if the logo is an acrylic insert, but I think it would be nice if it was two-tone somehow so it stands out.

I'll repeat myself ... and as long as I can get that electric blue color from the OP I'll be happy 

[Sed8op8]

Amazing definetly interested

[radio_killah]

Any chance of getting a render with keycaps? Just wanted to see how it would compare with the Orion V2. I'm interested in both..

[JaccoW]

Perhaps a silly question but would it be possible to have a test piece of just the cutout in something like black acrylic (to mimic the aluminum) + frosted acrylic (to serve as our insert)?
You would get a much better idea of the limitations of the machinery and give people something to discuss.
Perhaps it doesn't even look half bad.

And that should not be that expensive. Perhaps $50 or so? Hell, I'd even be willing to throw DrHubblePhD a couple of dollars to get it made and have him shoot some pictures of it.

Edit:
I just pulled out my book on materials and cutting and I can see how it might be very difficult to cut these areas to the desired exactness with round bits.


You could probably do it by lasercutting (provided it's less than 20mm thick) but the anodizing could make it difficult to design the inserts to make them fit...
Would the materials of our resident capmakers provide an option? As in fill it up with liquid?

EDIT2:
Can you show us what the underside of the insert currently looks like? It doesn't have to be as thick as the rest of the top plate does it? Would that make it easier for your machine guy?