Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 1250001 times)

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Offline dorkvader

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3350 on: Mon, 19 May 2014, 22:26:10 »
I am having trouble getting my LH to work. I dont know a lot about digital stuff, which may be part of the problem.

The RH works fine, everything appears to be soldered correctly (continuity checks out), I just flashed a new firmware and I'm testing with a brand new IO expander. The diodes also appear to be in the correct orientation.

Is there something I may be missing? I can provide pictures or whatever will help.

Offline ic07

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3351 on: Mon, 19 May 2014, 23:29:26 »
I am having trouble getting my LH to work. I dont know a lot about digital stuff, which may be part of the problem.

The RH works fine, everything appears to be soldered correctly (continuity checks out), I just flashed a new firmware and I'm testing with a brand new IO expander. The diodes also appear to be in the correct orientation.

Is there something I may be missing? I can provide pictures or whatever will help.

Hey dorkvader!  If you've already checked continuity, and tried a new IO expander, I dunno... Have you checked voltages, with everything plugged in?  Have you tried a new TRRS cable?  Are keystrokes generated if you short two of the used (circuit diagram) GPIO pins on the MCP23018 directly?

Offline dorkvader

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3352 on: Mon, 19 May 2014, 23:36:26 »
I am having trouble getting my LH to work. I dont know a lot about digital stuff, which may be part of the problem.

The RH works fine, everything appears to be soldered correctly (continuity checks out), I just flashed a new firmware and I'm testing with a brand new IO expander. The diodes also appear to be in the correct orientation.

Is there something I may be missing? I can provide pictures or whatever will help.

Hey dorkvader!  If you've already checked continuity, and tried a new IO expander, I dunno... Have you checked voltages, with everything plugged in?  Have you tried a new TRRS cable?  Are keystrokes generated if you short two of the used (circuit diagram) GPIO pins on the MCP23018 directly?

I haven't tried a new cable (I will have to go find the spare) but I have tried shorting pins on the IO expander. Voltages seem fine, but I will check and make sure.

I will try plugging it into a different teensy tomorrow. Maybe it's a bad pin on it or something.

I'll get something to read that SVG as well. for whatever reason my browser doesn't want to render it.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3353 on: Mon, 19 May 2014, 23:36:50 »
double post

Offline ic07

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3354 on: Mon, 19 May 2014, 23:42:41 »
I'll get something to read that SVG as well. for whatever reason my browser doesn't want to render it.

Sorry... didn't mention, since I posted the link not that far above: the image has to be downloaded before viewing.  Github seems to have a thing against serving SVG files viewably.

Offline slickmamba

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3355 on: Tue, 20 May 2014, 01:52:45 »
dumb question, does the ergodox plate allow you to mod the switch without desolder?  From the pictures of the ergodox plate it looks like I can but just checking to be safe. 
Hi :)

Offline tricheboars

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3356 on: Tue, 20 May 2014, 09:13:57 »
dumb question, does the ergodox plate allow you to mod the switch without desolder?  From the pictures of the ergodox plate it looks like I can but just checking to be safe.

yes. i believe so. however you might want to mod your switches before you even get the dox.
|  Fundamentalist ErgoDox Zealot  |  HHKB Hybrid

Offline slickmamba

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3357 on: Tue, 20 May 2014, 12:15:48 »
dumb question, does the ergodox plate allow you to mod the switch without desolder?  From the pictures of the ergodox plate it looks like I can but just checking to be safe.

yes. i believe so. however you might want to mod your switches before you even get the dox.

eh the place I want to order them from, http://www.originativeco.com/collections/accessories/products/springs, only has 55g in stock right now.  Don't know where else to get them
Hi :)

Offline dorkvader

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3358 on: Tue, 20 May 2014, 18:06:35 »
I'll get something to read that SVG as well. for whatever reason my browser doesn't want to render it.

Sorry... didn't mention, since I posted the link not that far above: the image has to be downloaded before viewing.  Github seems to have a thing against serving SVG files viewably.

Oh, I have the circuit diagram from the gerbers on the website. I got a gerber viewer a while ago to make sure I was doing it right on my 0.5 lefthanded one hand ergodox gamepad.

Trying the new teensy now and a few other things. Thanks for the help so far.

Offline slickmamba

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3359 on: Wed, 21 May 2014, 19:29:08 »
Anybody have extra plates or PCB for sale?  I don't like the acrylic case from massdrop and will probably be buying all of the parts separately. 
Hi :)

Offline Folio

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3360 on: Wed, 21 May 2014, 19:49:07 »
Anybody have extra plates or PCB for sale?  I don't like the acrylic case from massdrop and will probably be buying all of the parts separately.

They got aluminum top plates on Massdrop (silver, red, blue, & black) for $40. It's already on the lowest price. Just saiyan

Offline conandy

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3361 on: Thu, 22 May 2014, 22:00:03 »
Couldn't post a new thread (not enough posting history, I guess, yet) so this seems like the best place to ask this:   

I have been agonizing over purchasing an ErgoDox (on current massdrop), waiting for Acidfire's Axios, or cobbling together my own proto-type split ergo board (intimidating too a total noob, here). 

If there were anyone in the Denver, Colorado area who has an ErgoDox I could borrow and play with for just a day or two, it would seriously help me with my decision making process. Even just a quick visit for show and tell for a few minutes without actually borrowing it would be a huge help.  I'd be willing to drive anywhere within an hours drive or so for a chance to touchy-feely one.

Thanks in advance to anyone who might help. 

Offline slickmamba

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3362 on: Thu, 22 May 2014, 22:05:10 »
That is a really good idea, I should probably do that as well
Hi :)

Offline xman

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3363 on: Fri, 23 May 2014, 01:31:47 »
I am using a 2-meter RJ11 cable now.
I have tried a much longer cable, at least 5 meters, which also worked.

Your RJ11 cable mod looks really good.
While looking at it, I also saw your thumb cluster mod.

I think your thumb cluster mod looks ergonomically great!
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55043.msg1244366#msg1244366

Ideally it would be nice if they were adjustable as much as possible,
including rotation, just to be able to ergonomically accommodate
different individual changeable preferences.
I don't know if that's practical...
What you have looks very impressive!

(By the way, I think AcidFire's thumb clusters are non-adjustable,
   but I might be wrong about that.)


Maybe someone (who knows more than me) will make some
"ErgoDox-with-plainbriny-thumbcluster-mod" PCBs
with optional break-away thumb clusters, & ribbon cable connections
to facilitate your "ErgoDox-with-plainbriny-thumbcluster-mod"...

For those who don't care about ergonomics:
they would keep it in one piece.

For those who want or need the ergonomics:
they would use separated thumb clusters.


I think most people would find your thumb cluster mod
to feel more comfortable. (I might be wrong about that.)



Offline plainbriny

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3364 on: Fri, 23 May 2014, 06:59:04 »
I think your thumb cluster mod looks ergonomically great!
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55043.msg1244366#msg1244366

Ideally it would be nice if they were adjustable as much as possible,
including rotation, just to be able to ergonomically accommodate
different individual changeable preferences.
I don't know if that's practical...
What you have looks very impressive!

(By the way, I think AcidFire's thumb clusters are non-adjustable,
   but I might be wrong about that.)

Maybe someone (who knows more than me) will make some
"ErgoDox-with-plainbriny-thumbcluster-mod" PCBs
with optional break-away thumb clusters, & ribbon cable connections
to facilitate your "ErgoDox-with-plainbriny-thumbcluster-mod"...

Thanks, I use it everyday, I can't type on anything else now  ;D

As for adjustability, I think it would be great, but it is beyond my ability now.

AcidFire's thumb cluster is adjustable, but in most circumstances will be restricted by the case design.

I think the thumb cluster part of his PCB is detachable. I am also looking forward for his final work.

Offline tbc

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3365 on: Sun, 25 May 2014, 15:42:00 »
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56846.0

deerrp help?

not sure how to use multimeter to test out what's not working?
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Offline Fluctuation

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3366 on: Mon, 26 May 2014, 17:52:40 »
Just put together an ergodox for the first time. It took about six hours from start to finish. I always thought blue switches were too light so I ordered clear switches, but I think these are a bit too heavy. Which spring would be a happy medium if I were to mod these clears? I really like the way they feel, but they're just a tad heavy.

It was my first time soldering, but it was pretty fun. Took quite a while to figure how to get the solder to form up on the pins, I think I had an easier time with the SMDs. I might order some more kits with different switches just to have fun building another board. Now I need to spend some time making some sort of tenting solution out of wood. Idk if it's these DSA caps, or if it's just the flat typing, but it's a bit hard to reach the numbers, and letters like "G" or "J" with colemak layout.  I don't really have much of a problem hitting the thumb keys (except the top corner) like a lot of people complain about, but maybe I just have huge hands.



65g maybe?

I'll look into it, thanks.
« Last Edit: Mon, 26 May 2014, 18:11:49 by Fluctuation »

Offline Pacifist

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3367 on: Mon, 26 May 2014, 17:55:10 »
Just put together an ergodox for the first time. It took about six hours from start to finish. I always thought blue switches were too light so I ordered clear switches, but I think these are a bit too heavy. Which spring would be a happy medium if I were to mod these clears? I really like the way they feel, but they're just a tad heavy.

It was my first time soldering, but it was pretty fun. Took quite a while to figure how to get the solder to form up on the pins, I think I had an easier time with the SMDs. I might order some more kits with different switches just to have fun building another board. Now I need to spend some time making some sort of tenting solution out of wood. Idk if it's these DSA caps, or if it's just the flat typing, but it's a bit hard to reach the numbers, and letters like "G" or "J" with colemak layout.  I don't really have much of a problem hitting the thumb keys (except the top corner) like a lot of people complain about, but maybe I just have huge hands.

65g maybe?

Offline ic07

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3368 on: Tue, 27 May 2014, 13:21:45 »
...
some sort of tenting solution out of wood
...

Probably not quite what you were thinking of, but I couldn't resist linking to kerplop's build :) .  There are a few other people's tenting solutions near that one in the thread too, I think.

Offline sakai4eva

  • Posts: 281
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3369 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 01:31:25 »
Just put together an ergodox for the first time. It took about six hours from start to finish. I always thought blue switches were too light so I ordered clear switches, but I think these are a bit too heavy. Which spring would be a happy medium if I were to mod these clears? I really like the way they feel, but they're just a tad heavy.

It was my first time soldering, but it was pretty fun. Took quite a while to figure how to get the solder to form up on the pins, I think I had an easier time with the SMDs. I might order some more kits with different switches just to have fun building another board. Now I need to spend some time making some sort of tenting solution out of wood. Idk if it's these DSA caps, or if it's just the flat typing, but it's a bit hard to reach the numbers, and letters like "G" or "J" with colemak layout.  I don't really have much of a problem hitting the thumb keys (except the top corner) like a lot of people complain about, but maybe I just have huge hands.

65g maybe?

The choices are 55g, 62g, or 65g. Since you hated softer touches but you're afraid of getting too hard... Any of these three works, but remember to get Korean custom springs if you're going 55g and 62g because there is a risk of the key getting stuck if the spring isn't strong enough. Nonetheless, the feel is almost similar if you lubed them, so YMMV.

Offline Fluctuation

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3370 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 14:00:31 »
...
some sort of tenting solution out of wood
...

Probably not quite what you were thinking of, but I couldn't resist linking to kerplop's build :) .  There are a few other people's tenting solutions near that one in the thread too, I think.


Oh man, I don't think I have enough experience to do something like that. That is quite beautiful, though. I was thinking something along the lines of a plate that attaches to the bottom with velcro, or I can get longer screws and use that. Mine would be beyond simple, haha.



The choices are 55g, 62g, or 65g. Since you hated softer touches but you're afraid of getting too hard... Any of these three works, but remember to get Korean custom springs if you're going 55g and 62g because there is a risk of the key getting stuck if the spring isn't strong enough. Nonetheless, the feel is almost similar if you lubed them, so YMMV.

 
Where can I get these springs besides originative? They seem to be all out of stock.

After a few days of typing on clears, they've really grown on me. The force required is now a non-issue, and I find myself barely bottoming out anymore. Before I used to do it 100% of the time. I'm not entirely sure I can go back to clicky switches, either. It's incredibly quiet compared to my old Leopold board. I really want to try blacks, now.

Offline mikew0w

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3371 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:04:48 »

Where can I get these springs besides originative? They seem to be all out of stock.

I have been wondering this too. There is a thread about how they have been unresponsive so I'm hesitant to order there even if they get stock back.
I want to make gehtto greens out of my blues and I dont know where to buy the springs.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3372 on: Sun, 01 June 2014, 07:28:06 »
It is about time that I showcased my "SchmergoDox", even though it does not have any case. It is quite modified which I think could be interesting to some.

66635-0

I had bought only bare PCBs in Massdrop's first run, because I had planned to build a simple and inexpensive board with PCB-mounted switches and reuse caps from old keyboards.

Unfortunately the 1u options for the outermost columns had misplaced pin holes, so I discovered that I needed to drill in the PCBs to fit the switches and use a plate to hold them.
I also found that the thumb keys were too far away... but I found that I could add an extra thumb key on each half, and that also required plates.

Because I think the column offsets on the ErgoDox are too small, I wanted to compensate by using both higher OEM profile and lower SP-profile to get somewhat of a dished effect. I had a rubber dome keyboard from BTC where the alphanumerics are SP-profile and Cherry MX-compatible but the larger keys are not. I ordered a matching set of lasered OEM-profile keys from WASD Keyboards about a year ago. The BTC caps are the same profile as Signature Plastics' keys and used for middle and ring finger columns, but unfortunately they sit higher than the OEM-profile WASD caps so the height difference is not as high as I had anticipated it would be... They were actually retr0brite'd a year or two ago but they seem to have yellowed again.
I based the layout somewhat on that of the µTron.

I made one universal plate design for both halves in QCad, using Litster's blueprints as starting point. I had them laser-cut of 1.5 mm acrylic at Ponoko because the laser-cutter at the local makerspace was broken. I had to wait a few months for my plates from Ponoko, and the first shipment was in the wrong scale even...
The good plates were then somewhat reinforced on the inside and painted. 1.5mm is not too thin for acrylic if there is a PCB and if you are careful during assembly. Afterwards I realized that I could have sandwiched two 1.5 mm plates, where the lower plate has larger holes for the switches and diodes.
All but the innermost 2u keys have Cherry plate-mount stabilisers. I had made an error with the stabilisers: I had placed them facing the same way as Costar stabilisers would - with the wire on the same side as the diode. So I had to remove the diodes that were beside the stabilised switches and place new diodes inside them.

I cut away the outermost thumb keys, because I wanted a smaller keyboard. I would have cut away some of the outer parts of the PCB also if they had not had mounting holes.
When drilling or cutting a PCB, which is made of fibreglass, it is important that you don't inhale any fibreglass dust - it can literally kill you. I used a vacuum cleaner on full close to the PCB all the time and wore a dust mask.

The TRRS sockets are not the recommended, but the FC68129 with its extra pins snipped off. Because I didn't solder the USB cable to the PCB, I needed to route a wire from the Teensy to the PCB to provide power for the left half: That is not necessary in later revisions of the PCB.
The cables are cheap Chinese cables I got on eBay.

The image below shows how I made the thumbkey mod. One key from the bottom row had to be sacrificed.
I insulated the ground plane in the new drill holes with tinted epoxy. I used one stabilising pin from each switch and snipped the other. :)


I started on a case, designed in QCad and hand-cut from thin wood... but the wood I got wasn't flat enough and some of the corners were difficult. I could build it from styrene easy enough, but I don't quite like styrene.
I may build one later out of thicker lasercut plywood once I get access to the local makerspace's laser-cutter.
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 June 2014, 08:05:22 by Findecanor »

Offline plainbriny

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3373 on: Sun, 01 June 2014, 07:59:08 »
It is about time that I showcased my "SchmergoDox", even though it does not have any case. It is quite modified which I think could be interesting to some.
(Attachment Link)

This mod is awesome.  :thumb:
My current thumb cluster mod is too bulky to carry around.
This mod is much more portable, maybe I should build one too.

Offline sakai4eva

  • Posts: 281
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3374 on: Mon, 02 June 2014, 00:31:10 »
...
some sort of tenting solution out of wood
...

Probably not quite what you were thinking of, but I couldn't resist linking to kerplop's build :) .  There are a few other people's tenting solutions near that one in the thread too, I think.


Oh man, I don't think I have enough experience to do something like that. That is quite beautiful, though. I was thinking something along the lines of a plate that attaches to the bottom with velcro, or I can get longer screws and use that. Mine would be beyond simple, haha.



The choices are 55g, 62g, or 65g. Since you hated softer touches but you're afraid of getting too hard... Any of these three works, but remember to get Korean custom springs if you're going 55g and 62g because there is a risk of the key getting stuck if the spring isn't strong enough. Nonetheless, the feel is almost similar if you lubed them, so YMMV.

 
Where can I get these springs besides originative? They seem to be all out of stock.

After a few days of typing on clears, they've really grown on me. The force required is now a non-issue, and I find myself barely bottoming out anymore. Before I used to do it 100% of the time. I'm not entirely sure I can go back to clicky switches, either. It's incredibly quiet compared to my old Leopold board. I really want to try blacks, now.

I'd say taobao, but I have the privilege of an agent dedicated to MKBs, so YMMV.

Offline AKmalamute

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3375 on: Wed, 04 June 2014, 15:44:49 »
I'd say taobao, but I have the privilege of an agent dedicated to MKBs, so YMMV.

Getting a bit far afield from the Ergodox, but ... you want to run a GB ...? Spirit's springs-only GB was wildly popular and would probably generate some interest again.

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline EvillePanda

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3376 on: Wed, 04 June 2014, 15:58:50 »
After a few days of typing on clears, they've really grown on me. The force required is now a non-issue, and I find myself barely bottoming out anymore. Before I used to do it 100% of the time. I'm not entirely sure I can go back to clicky switches, either. It's incredibly quiet compared to my old Leopold board. I really want to try blacks, now.

I picked up clears instead of blues for the same reason.  This makes me very happy to read.  I'll know better when I actually build the darn thing.  Never soldered before and I'm scared of fouling it up.
Visit the Typing Test and try!

Offline slickmamba

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3377 on: Wed, 04 June 2014, 16:18:55 »
You'll be fine, just don't run the iron too hot the first time.  Watch a few videos on youtube and you should be good. 
Hi :)

Offline EvillePanda

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3378 on: Wed, 04 June 2014, 16:58:21 »
So keep it to a low roar.  Should I use the Radio Shack iron or the Weller?
Visit the Typing Test and try!

Offline kurplop

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3379 on: Thu, 05 June 2014, 11:55:31 »
It is about time that I showcased my "SchmergoDox", even though it does not have any case. It is quite modified which I think could be interesting to some.

(Attachment Link)



Great job and smart mods on your ErgoDox. I think you uncovered the essence of what needed to be tweaked on it to make it a much improved unit. The more comfortably placed thumb keys and the 1x outer rows make it a more compact and user friendly keyboard.

I don't know if you're planning on tenting it but the thumb cluster chop will keep it from standing up to high if you do. :thumb:

Offline xman

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3380 on: Mon, 09 June 2014, 21:47:28 »
I'd say taobao, but I have the privilege of an agent dedicated to MKBs, so YMMV.

Getting a bit far afield from the Ergodox, but ... you want to run a GB ...? Spirit's springs-only GB was wildly popular and would probably generate some interest again.

Depending on what was offered, I'd be in for 2 bags of springs,
if each bag had 100 or more springs.

Offline naz

  • Posts: 54
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3381 on: Wed, 11 June 2014, 14:45:47 »


Hi, here are a few questions that i couldn't found a straight answer (there are over a 100 pages of posting):

The configurator from massdrop doesn't let me put the " ñ " letter as a main key. ¿can this be done without using a key combination (ctrl+key, alt+key, etc)? (I want to use the keyboard with a Spanish layout)

Another thing: can you change de secondary symbol of a key? For instance, the configurator writes " , " as a main key and "^" as a secondary symbol (shift+key), but in a Spanish Layout it'll be " , " and " ; " (same thing happens with a lot of other keys)

I really like this keyboard, but i'm not willing to type on a US layout, i rather stick with my Microsoft Natural XD.

Thanks for the help and regards

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3382 on: Wed, 11 June 2014, 15:41:28 »
Hi, here are a few questions that i couldn't found a straight answer (there are over a 100 pages of posting):

The configurator from massdrop doesn't let me put the " ñ " letter as a main key. ¿can this be done without using a key combination (ctrl+key, alt+key, etc)? (I want to use the keyboard with a Spanish layout)

Another thing: can you change de secondary symbol of a key? For instance, the configurator writes " , " as a main key and "^" as a secondary symbol (shift+key), but in a Spanish Layout it'll be " , " and " ; " (same thing happens with a lot of other keys)

I really like this keyboard, but i'm not willing to type on a US layout, i rather stick with my Microsoft Natural XD.

Thanks for the help and regards

First, welcome to GeekHack :) .

As for the ErgoDox being able to be used with a Spanish layout, it most definitely can -- just like any standard USB keyboard.  The choice between a US layout and a Spanish one that you're referring to is handled at the OS level -- so if the ", <" key in a US layout is equivalent to the ", ;" key in a Spanish one, just set the desired key to ", <" in the Massdrop tool, and you'll get ", ;" when you plug it in to your computer (as long as your computer is configured to use a Spanish layout).  It may take some experimentation to figure out which keys map to which others, but it's definitely doable.  The reason that the Massdrop tool only lists the US versions of keys is... well, I suppose partially because they're a US based company... but also because that's the way the USB HID boot keyboard specification is written.  You'd think a major USB sub-specification would make more effort to be multilingual, but, it really doesn't.

As for whether you can configure the firmware to directly enter an "ñ" (or any other utf-8 character) in a software layout agnostic way, it can be done (kind of, depending on your system) but only in source at the moment, and it's a pain.  You can also sort of separate unshifted keys from their shifted counterparts, but again only in source, and that's also a pain, lol.  There's been some discussion of that on Github, if you're interested, e.g. for writing a workman-p type layout.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3383 on: Wed, 11 June 2014, 15:56:07 »
You could also use a picture of a Spanish layout and a picture of USlayout to match each Spanish key to a name in the configurator.

European layouts have to additional keys also. They are found in the Misc menu in the configurator.
The key to the right of left Shift is called Key_NonUS_Backslash_Pipe.
The key to the left of Enter just above the right Shift key is called Key_NonUS_Pound_Tilde.
These are named after what symbols are on them in British layout.
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 June 2014, 16:06:16 by Findecanor »

Offline naz

  • Posts: 54
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3384 on: Thu, 12 June 2014, 14:57:58 »
Thanks for the answer, i'm glad to have found this site  :thumb:

So it can be done, great. Basically, this has been the only reason i haven't bought a proper ergonomic keyboard (teck, kinesis, etc), so i keep typing on my microsoft natural. I already sign for the next massdrop ergodox (can't wait)... still a bit worried about the thumb cluster position, tough, lots of people says to be a bit far, especially for the smaller hands.

anyway, thanks again and regards!

   

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3385 on: Thu, 12 June 2014, 15:48:30 »
This seems silly, but

67753-0

And the thumb cluster's not perfect, I suppose (I don't tend to use the outer keys except for key-combination shortcuts and the like) but I've never had any problems with it.  The two large buttons, especially, are just fine, for me.

(an old post with some picks of me reaching for various keys in the thumb cluster)


Offline naz

  • Posts: 54
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3386 on: Thu, 12 June 2014, 17:09:54 »
Is not silly at all, i actually think is usefull data.

After measuring my hand, i realice is a whole inch smaller than yours (5 inches from the midle finger tip to the thumb base). i wonder if anyone stop using the ergodox becouse of the thumb cluster.

do you know if the massdrop configurator has the same dimensions than the ergodox?? i would like to print it and see for my self.



 


Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3387 on: Thu, 12 June 2014, 19:31:49 »
I know at least a few people have gone to great lengths to modify the thumb cluster...  There was also talk a while back about about an alternate design with a different one.  Not sure what, if anything came of those discussions (I didn't really keep up with them).

Hmm... Just looking, the proportions seem pretty close.  You'd probably have to fiddle with it a bit to make sure the printed size was the same though.  Or, you could download a gerber viewer, and grab the design files here.

Offline sakai4eva

  • Posts: 281
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3388 on: Thu, 12 June 2014, 21:16:36 »
Thanks for the answer, i'm glad to have found this site  :thumb:

So it can be done, great. Basically, this has been the only reason i haven't bought a proper ergonomic keyboard (teck, kinesis, etc), so i keep typing on my microsoft natural. I already sign for the next massdrop ergodox (can't wait)... still a bit worried about the thumb cluster position, tough, lots of people says to be a bit far, especially for the smaller hands.

anyway, thanks again and regards!

   

Thumb cluster is a bit far. Personally I only use the two big buttons (space and enter) although mine's a glorified gamepad right now.

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3389 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 20:57:40 »
i wonder if anyone stop using the ergodox becouse of the thumb cluster.
Yes, I’ve heard of a bunch of people who dislike the ergodox thumb keys. See for instance http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58673

The little empty gap between the thumb keys and the bottom row of the finger section is a very easy spot for a thumb to reach, and the further-out thumb keys are quite tricky to reach. Overall, it’s a design that borrows too closely from the Kinesis Advantage and is suboptimal for a keyboard with flat halves.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 June 2014, 20:59:24 by jacobolus »

Offline plainbriny

  • Posts: 192
  • Location: Taiwan
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3390 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 00:18:31 »
Maybe this could be a quick fix to the thumb cluster problem?

68445-0

or

68447-1

I prefer the later one, because I can make use of the extra keys.

Of course, modification to the case and plate are required.
« Last Edit: Fri, 20 June 2014, 00:26:07 by plainbriny »

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3391 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 09:05:42 »
I find this worse. The current long side by side keys are the easiest keys to hit in the thumb cluster, and your suggestion ruins that :-)

What the ergodox needs is to simply bring the thumb clusters closer to the other keys.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline vvp

  • Posts: 887
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3392 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 14:17:04 »
What the ergodox needs is to simply bring the thumb clusters closer to the other keys.
+1

I even started to modify layer 3 of the case. But then I realized that there are more things I mind:
* no tilt on the bottom key well row
* equal height of keycaps on the thumb cluster
So I decided to try to redo it completely.

The original idea:
68496-0

Offline JustCallMeCrash

  • Posts: 219
  • Location: NC, USA
  • ErgoDox Lover
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3393 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 22:40:05 »
What's the problem here?  I find the ErgoDox fits my hands perfectly.
http://goo.gl/DUCguu (gif of hitting the thumb cluster)

EDIT:  I made the link easier... sorry about that!
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 June 2014, 08:28:18 by JustCallMeCrash »
ErgoDoxen 6 total: Cherry MX Browns, Cherry MX Clears, NovelKeys Box Royal, 80g Gateron Yellows, NovelKeys Pale Blues, NovelKeys Box Navy.
Preonic 2 total: OG Gateron Yellows (GMK silencer clips), TBD (unassembled v2).
XD-75 (mixed Gateron Yellows, MX Blacks, MX Clears on layer toggles).
Das S Professional (was MX Blues, now Ghetto Reds).
G80-11900.
ML-4400 (2x) Cherry MY boards.

Offline Harrowed

  • Posts: 116
  • Location: Finland
  • My wallet has been hacked
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3394 on: Sat, 21 June 2014, 05:46:14 »
What's the problem here?  I find the ErgoDox fits my hands perfectly.
http://goo.gl/zqppE6  (gif of hitting the thumb cluster)

The gif seems to be as hard to reach as Ergodox' thumb cluster (I can't view the thing, asks to sign into Google and then to make Google+ account which I'm not going to do)
      
Ergodox MX Blues | Rosewill RK-9000

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 5036
  • Location: Koriko
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3395 on: Sat, 21 June 2014, 08:53:52 »
Maybe this could be a quick fix to the thumb cluster problem?
Two suggestions I posted more than a year ago:

The key on the right is a cut-up space bar.
Eventually, I modified the PCBs to get an additional diagonal key.

Offline JustCallMeCrash

  • Posts: 219
  • Location: NC, USA
  • ErgoDox Lover
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3396 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 05:30:16 »
Maybe this could be a quick fix to the thumb cluster problem?
Two suggestions I posted more than a year ago:
Show Image

The key on the right is a cut-up space bar.
Eventually, I modified the PCBs to get an additional diagonal key.

I fixed it: http://goo.gl/DUCguu
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 June 2014, 08:28:05 by JustCallMeCrash »
ErgoDoxen 6 total: Cherry MX Browns, Cherry MX Clears, NovelKeys Box Royal, 80g Gateron Yellows, NovelKeys Pale Blues, NovelKeys Box Navy.
Preonic 2 total: OG Gateron Yellows (GMK silencer clips), TBD (unassembled v2).
XD-75 (mixed Gateron Yellows, MX Blacks, MX Clears on layer toggles).
Das S Professional (was MX Blues, now Ghetto Reds).
G80-11900.
ML-4400 (2x) Cherry MY boards.

Offline JonPB

  • Posts: 3
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3397 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 16:59:54 »
Crash, my own thumb doesn't naturally reach that far. Looking at your picture, I think you're slightly larger in stature than most people, which probably carries over to your hands as well. :-)

I solved my thumb-reach problem by moving my index fingers to the qwerty-g and qwerty-h positions. Of course, that requires using a different keymap, but then I was planning on doing that all along. (And I'm still tweaking it, some nine months later. Teensy with Cub-uanic's TMK is fantastic.) Still, if people develop a better thumb cluster, I'd be able to upgrade to that and keep my general layout plus I'd have an adduct thumb key as well as the existing selection of abduct keys.

Ultimately, though, I think flexibility is the key {pun intended} to solving the one-design-fits-all keyboard.

I'm a novice at hardware design, but I think that moving the thumb cluster to its own PCB is the only way to go (other than hand-wiring) for a mass-produced product. It strikes me that the most flexible design would have four long bolts attached to ball joints that allows the thumb cluster to be positioned almost arbitrarily, but without risk of shifting, in terms of both distance and angle from the main keyboards. This would also allow built-in tenting. A simpler design would have a case that has several slots into which the thumb cluster could rest, allowing each assembler rough control of how closely it fits to the main boards. Heck, perhaps the main PCB could have several rows of perforations that would allow users to break the thumb clusters off and arrange them, if desired.

Personally, my ideal would be to have an Erector Set-like bundle of single-switch plates and struts for those plates. Each plate could be customized as to x-y-z-a (left-right, top-bottom, up-down, and angle) relative to the other plates. Each strut would need to be hacksawed off, eventually. Then I'd run some steel wire among the plates to prevent them from shifting relative to each other, and hand-wire each switch to the ErgoDox PCB. It would be an open-case design, but I think its diy-punk looks, not to mention its infinite physical customizability combined with standard programmability, would make up for its vulnerability to dust and debris.

There's never going to be a perfect keyboard for everyone. Most people make do with the tools they're presented. But I tend to go to extremes. :-) Maybe it goes without saying that I'm an emacs kinda guy. It doesn't go without saying that I'm grateful to everyone's efforts that have gone into making my own ErgoDox possible. Thanks, folks.

Cheers,
Jon

Offline plainbriny

  • Posts: 192
  • Location: Taiwan
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3398 on: Sun, 22 June 2014, 21:44:18 »
Working on my MK III. Though the thumb cluster idea is not well received, I do have an idea for the connection between the two halves.

On my mark II (the Frankendox), I used RJ11 sockets. It worked rather well, however, the profile of the socket is too high, and I have to drill a hole for the socket.

Today I found it is possible to connect the two halves using USB cable (mini to mini, like this one http://www.wpsantennas.com/859966-Mini-USB-to-Mini-USB-Data-Cable.aspx). The basic idea is to connect Ergodox directly to USB port on teensy, so the USB sockets on the two halves will be available. Just connect the two I/O lines to D+ and D- of the USB port, and it should work. Of course, the socket on the left hand side should be soldered on the bottom. Otherwise custom cables will be required.

Current hurdle: mini-to-mini cables are not easy to find locally.

Will report back if this is working.
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 June 2014, 21:45:51 by plainbriny »

Offline plainbriny

  • Posts: 192
  • Location: Taiwan
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3399 on: Thu, 26 June 2014, 00:51:36 »
So connecting the two halves using USB cable works.

69033-0

Just rewire the D+ and D- of USB connector

69035-1

I used a mini USB to micro USB connector, so I can use micro USB cable to connect ErgoDox and PC now

69037-2