Author Topic: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!  (Read 18614 times)

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Offline phinix

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Which are the best MX sliders for Realforce?

Are they really good, feel-like?

I'm playing with an idea of modding one of my Realforce TKL with MX sliders, but worried about the differences in keycaps.
As far as I'm aware, Realforce has different spacebar size (is it 6u?), then mods at the bottom are not same size (1.25u).
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 March 2018, 05:20:01 by phinix »
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

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Offline zslane

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 12:18:39 »
You also have the problem with stabilized keycaps. MX keycaps have two stems meant to hold stabilizer inserts. There are no corresponding holes in a Realforce plate to accommodate those stems, and consequently the keycap will not depress all the way, and in many cases it won't even actuate. You have to drill two holes into the plate for each stabilized keycap.

Offline rich1051414

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 12:20:39 »
Coolermaster made topre stems for cherry mx, but as mentioned above, it won't help you with stabilized keys.
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline moh18one

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 12:22:32 »
You should wait for the upcoming Realforce RGB TKL

Offline Nostrocrompt

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 14:11:13 »
I applied this mod to my Topre Type Heaven - initially I purchased 5 packs of these:
https://www.banggood.com/20Pcs-a-Set-Topre-to-Cherry-MX-Switch-Adapter-for-Topre-Realforce-HHKB-Capacitive-Keyboard-p-1143935.html?cur_warehouse=CN
They worked but each keycap had an annoying slight turn of 1-2 degrees, enough to be noticeable, and were pretty wobbly to boot. They also had no modifier sliders, so that didn't really work. My OCD didn't take long to trigger and I opted for JTK sliders from originative:
https://originative.co/products/mx-sliders
These provided modifier sliders, and the keycaps mount on them straight and with less wobble. I actually ended up grabbing the o-rings from the banggood sliders and putting them on the JTK sliders - they reduce the travel a bit, but the sound is deeeelicious. I ended up pulling off the stabilizer mounts on my SA keycaps that I put on the board, and because of the stabilizer mechanism on the mounting plate it hasn't rendered the modifiers more wobbly at all. It was easier than drilling holes in the plate, that's for sure. All in all the mod wasn't terribly difficult - the biggest challenge on the Type Heaven is that the domes aren't a single sheet, instead they come in various discrete groups, and if they come off of the PCB at all it can be difficult to re-center them. You can see why the back of the pcb has approximately 500 screws to keep it all sandwiched together. I try not to think of the cost of it all, but in the end that SA on silenced slider sound on a topre is worth it IMO.

Offline zslane

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 14:58:22 »
I ended up pulling off the stabilizer mounts on my SA keycaps...

I would never do this. Firstly, because I shudder at the thought of doing such horrific violence to beautiful SA keycaps. Secondly, because I might want to use those keycaps on keyboards with stabilizer mounts someday.

Holes drilled in a Topre plate have no adverse effects, even if you don't end up needing them in the end. But hacking off stems is irreversible, and simply unthinkable (for me) when it comes to SA keycaps.

Offline Nostrocrompt

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 15:11:21 »
Quote
I shudder at the thought of doing such horrific violence to beautiful SA keycaps
That's why I put the o-rings on the sliders... you can't hear them scream  :p

Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 04:10:40 »
You should wait for the upcoming Realforce RGB TKL

When is it coming out? I wonder if it would be possible to swap pcb in new RGB TKL with old realforce tkl...
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

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Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 04:12:47 »
I applied this mod to my Topre Type Heaven - initially I purchased 5 packs of these:
https://www.banggood.com/20Pcs-a-Set-Topre-to-Cherry-MX-Switch-Adapter-for-Topre-Realforce-HHKB-Capacitive-Keyboard-p-1143935.html?cur_warehouse=CN
They worked but each keycap had an annoying slight turn of 1-2 degrees, enough to be noticeable, and were pretty wobbly to boot. They also had no modifier sliders, so that didn't really work. My OCD didn't take long to trigger and I opted for JTK sliders from originative:
https://originative.co/products/mx-sliders
These provided modifier sliders, and the keycaps mount on them straight and with less wobble. I actually ended up grabbing the o-rings from the banggood sliders and putting them on the JTK sliders - they reduce the travel a bit, but the sound is deeeelicious. I ended up pulling off the stabilizer mounts on my SA keycaps that I put on the board, and because of the stabilizer mechanism on the mounting plate it hasn't rendered the modifiers more wobbly at all. It was easier than drilling holes in the plate, that's for sure. All in all the mod wasn't terribly difficult - the biggest challenge on the Type Heaven is that the domes aren't a single sheet, instead they come in various discrete groups, and if they come off of the PCB at all it can be difficult to re-center them. You can see why the back of the pcb has approximately 500 screws to keep it all sandwiched together. I try not to think of the cost of it all, but in the end that SA on silenced slider sound on a topre is worth it IMO.

Do you have some photos of this mod project?
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::

Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 04:13:40 »
I ended up pulling off the stabilizer mounts on my SA keycaps...

I would never do this. Firstly, because I shudder at the thought of doing such horrific violence to beautiful SA keycaps. Secondly, because I might want to use those keycaps on keyboards with stabilizer mounts someday.

Holes drilled in a Topre plate have no adverse effects, even if you don't end up needing them in the end. But hacking off stems is irreversible, and simply unthinkable (for me) when it comes to SA keycaps.

Me too, but I would simply buy few more mods to hack them, problem solved.

I'm trying to find a way to mod Realforce TKL to mount SA caps on it...
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::

Offline zslane

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 12:22:40 »
I'm trying to find a way to mod Realforce TKL to mount SA caps on it...

I should think that JTK sliders and drilled holes for the stabilizer stems will do the trick.

Offline MKULTRA

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 12:31:11 »
I ended up pulling off the stabilizer mounts on my SA keycaps...

I would never do this. Firstly, because I shudder at the thought of doing such horrific violence to beautiful SA keycaps. Secondly, because I might want to use those keycaps on keyboards with stabilizer mounts someday.

Holes drilled in a Topre plate have no adverse effects, even if you don't end up needing them in the end. But hacking off stems is irreversible, and simply unthinkable (for me) when it comes to SA keycaps.

Me too, but I would simply buy few more mods to hack them, problem solved.

I'm trying to find a way to mod Realforce TKL to mount SA caps on it...

user's above already told you how to achieve what you are looking to do.

Offline Nostrocrompt

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 01 February 2018, 16:35:37 »
Quote
Do you have some photos of this mod project?
It's my work computer, so here's an un-glamourous shot of it in its natural habitat:
187717-0

Popped a sticker on the top right corner because I didn't like the printed "Type Heaven" font, and it's my buddy's music shop, so there ya go. At some point I'll post more.

Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 02 February 2018, 02:21:52 »
I'm trying to find a way to mod Realforce TKL to mount SA caps on it...

I should think that JTK sliders and drilled holes for the stabilizer stems will do the trick.

Hey zslane, thanks for popping in here - your comments are always welcome, here and on Deskthority :thumb:
So these JTK (or sliders from Novatouch) would fix stabilized caps problem. What about that spacebar - can you please explain to me what is really a problem with it?
I read somewhere that first of all, spacebar is 6u, not 6.25u. Then stems are not aligned like they should be.
Does it mean there is no way to get it mounted?

« Last Edit: Fri, 02 February 2018, 02:25:19 by phinix »
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

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Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 02 February 2018, 02:22:39 »
Quote
Do you have some photos of this mod project?
It's my work computer, so here's an un-glamourous shot of it in its natural habitat:
(Attachment Link)
Popped a sticker on the top right corner because I didn't like the printed "Type Heaven" font, and it's my buddy's music shop, so there ya go. At some point I'll post more.

Thanks dude!
So, this means you used topre spacebar there, is this correct?
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 February 2018, 11:38:11 by phinix »
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::

Offline zslane

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 02 February 2018, 11:50:05 »
Actually, I'm not sure what to do about the spacebar. Maybe someone who has done the slider swap can weigh in here. I've never tried to find a 6u MX-stemmed spacebar to replace a stock Realforce spacebar.

Offline Nostrocrompt

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 05 February 2018, 10:37:10 »
Quote
Thanks dude!
So, this means you used topre spacbear there, is this correct?

Of course! Yes, I did leave the stock space bar on there (flipped) - I left it there while I was considering the best option for putting the matching SA spacebar on there, but in the meantime I actually got accustomed to and really liked the recessed/ tilted feel of the space bar, and its dark grey isn't too ugly with the black on everything else.

Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 05 February 2018, 11:00:11 »
Quote
Thanks dude!
So, this means you used topre spacbear there, is this correct?

Of course! Yes, I did leave the stock space bar on there (flipped) - I left it there while I was considering the best option for putting the matching SA spacebar on there, but in the meantime I actually got accustomed to and really liked the recessed/ tilted feel of the space bar, and its dark grey isn't too ugly with the black on everything else.

How would you be able to stick SA spacebar there when its 6.25 instead of 6u?
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::

Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 05 February 2018, 11:00:21 »
Actually, I'm not sure what to do about the spacebar. Maybe someone who has done the slider swap can weigh in here. I've never tried to find a 6u MX-stemmed spacebar to replace a stock Realforce spacebar.

Thing is, for us, SA lovers, standard topre spacebar looks iffy with SA set.

I thought maybe it would be good to buy one more spacebar with every SA set and try to mod the stems, but it would still be 6.25, not 6"...

There was a mod, someone did it really hard way - like using 6.25 spacebar and pushing other mods to the sides etc, with drilling plate:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5wo98h/help_novatouching_topre_boards/ded8czd/

But I don't know if this is the best way to do it?
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::

Offline Lepidus

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 05 February 2018, 11:20:03 »
Did anyone try KBDfans POM sliders? I read they are better than JTK ones, yet on aliexpress page there is this feedback someone left:



I tried contacting KBDfans and he wrote that this only happens on realforce 87 but not on hhkb. What? Does that make sense to any of you? It's my first topre, so I'm dont really know if there is a housing difference between the models that would cause this. Other people I questioned about these sliders said they were fine, no alignment issues on the ones they got.


Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 03 March 2018, 13:19:17 »
OK guys, I've been thinking about this and decide to mod one of my 87U55's.

So, basically looks like bottom row needs to be modded, right. However, I want to do a full bottom row, so it will change from

1.5u 1u 1.5u 6u 1.5u 1u 1u 1.5 to 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 6.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u

That means all bottom row switches will have to move a bit, either left or right side.

190293-0

First 6 will go left a bit, then last two will be moved to the right.
I skipped stabilizers of space bar - just drew middle stems.

First, I need Novatouch keyboard for sliders... Anyone would sell me one? ;D
« Last Edit: Sat, 03 March 2018, 13:27:48 by phinix »
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 03 March 2018, 14:30:30 »


OK guys, I've been thinking about this and decide to mod one of my 87U55's.

So, basically looks like bottom row needs to be modded, right. However, I want to do a full bottom row, so it will change from

1.5u 1u 1.5u 6u 1.5u 1u 1u 1.5 to 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 6.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u

That means all bottom row switches will have to move a bit, either left or right side.

(Attachment Link)

First 6 will go left a bit, then last two will be moved to the right.
I skipped stabilizers of space bar - just drew middle stems.

First, I need Novatouch keyboard for sliders... Anyone would sell me one? ;D

How exactly are you going to move the topre key locations??



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Offline zslane

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 03 March 2018, 15:03:28 »
The sliders can be purchased separately from Aliexpress.

Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 04 March 2018, 17:18:37 »


OK guys, I've been thinking about this and decide to mod one of my 87U55's.

So, basically looks like bottom row needs to be modded, right. However, I want to do a full bottom row, so it will change from

1.5u 1u 1.5u 6u 1.5u 1u 1u 1.5 to 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 6.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u

That means all bottom row switches will have to move a bit, either left or right side.

(Attachment Link)

First 6 will go left a bit, then last two will be moved to the right.
I skipped stabilizers of space bar - just drew middle stems.

First, I need Novatouch keyboard for sliders... Anyone would sell me one? ;D

How exactly are you going to move the topre key locations??



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Well, I'm going to mod the plate - simply filling the housing holes either to the left or right.
Dismantle the keyboard, pull out housings and file the holes, making them wider on one of the sides.
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::

Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 04 March 2018, 17:19:54 »
The sliders can be purchased separately from Aliexpress.

I know, but after reading loads of stuff, I learnt that Novatouch sliders are the best ones.
JTK or those "Kmod something" are not good.
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 04 March 2018, 17:23:34 »


OK guys, I've been thinking about this and decide to mod one of my 87U55's.

So, basically looks like bottom row needs to be modded, right. However, I want to do a full bottom row, so it will change from

1.5u 1u 1.5u 6u 1.5u 1u 1u 1.5 to 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 6.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u

That means all bottom row switches will have to move a bit, either left or right side.

(Attachment Link)

First 6 will go left a bit, then last two will be moved to the right.
I skipped stabilizers of space bar - just drew middle stems.

First, I need Novatouch keyboard for sliders... Anyone would sell me one? ;D

How exactly are you going to move the topre key locations??



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Well, I'm going to mod the plate - simply filling the housing holes either to the left or right.
Dismantle the keyboard, pull out housings and file the holes, making them wider on one of the sides.
What about the pcb??

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 04 March 2018, 17:33:26 »
I applied this mod to my Topre Type Heaven - initially I purchased 5 packs of these:
https://www.banggood.com/20Pcs-a-Set-Topre-to-Cherry-MX-Switch-Adapter-for-Topre-Realforce-HHKB-Capacitive-Keyboard-p-1143935.html?cur_warehouse=CN
They worked but each keycap had an annoying slight turn of 1-2 degrees, enough to be noticeable, and were pretty wobbly to boot. They also had no modifier sliders, so that didn't really work. My OCD didn't take long to trigger and I opted for JTK sliders from originative:
https://originative.co/products/mx-sliders
These provided modifier sliders, and the keycaps mount on them straight and with less wobble. I actually ended up grabbing the o-rings from the banggood sliders and putting them on the JTK sliders - they reduce the travel a bit, but the sound is deeeelicious. I ended up pulling off the stabilizer mounts on my SA keycaps that I put on the board, and because of the stabilizer mechanism on the mounting plate it hasn't rendered the modifiers more wobbly at all. It was easier than drilling holes in the plate, that's for sure. All in all the mod wasn't terribly difficult - the biggest challenge on the Type Heaven is that the domes aren't a single sheet, instead they come in various discrete groups, and if they come off of the PCB at all it can be difficult to re-center them. You can see why the back of the pcb has approximately 500 screws to keep it all sandwiched together. I try not to think of the cost of it all, but in the end that SA on silenced slider sound on a topre is worth it IMO.

As much as it would suck to sacrifice a few key caps to the Topre gods. It does sound like a much better solution than drilling the plate to accommodate the 2 stems on stabilized caps that are useless on Topre boards. My main hangup with MX sliders are none of them other than the hard to get novatouch sliders even come close to the smoothness of stock Topre sliders. Plus the stock caps that came with my FC660C are very solid, thick PBT dye subs that I don't really feel the need to replace. Although one day I may go the route you used, maybe with a nice custom set I get 2nd hand so cutting out the stems needed on them doesn't feel like such a sin, LOL!

Also I recently did a dome swap on my 660C to BKE redux extreme domes & while lining up a bunch of individual domes was a major pain. I took one look at the sheets the stock domes came in & thought they would be even worse to line up TBH. So I can completely agree with your comment on that!
« Last Edit: Sun, 04 March 2018, 17:35:02 by Rob27shred »

Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 04 March 2018, 18:03:25 »


OK guys, I've been thinking about this and decide to mod one of my 87U55's.

So, basically looks like bottom row needs to be modded, right. However, I want to do a full bottom row, so it will change from

1.5u 1u 1.5u 6u 1.5u 1u 1u 1.5 to 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 6.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u

That means all bottom row switches will have to move a bit, either left or right side.

(Attachment Link)

First 6 will go left a bit, then last two will be moved to the right.
I skipped stabilizers of space bar - just drew middle stems.

First, I need Novatouch keyboard for sliders... Anyone would sell me one? ;D

How exactly are you going to move the topre key locations??



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Well, I'm going to mod the plate - simply filling the housing holes either to the left or right.
Dismantle the keyboard, pull out housings and file the holes, making them wider on one of the sides.
What about the pcb??

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Moving houseings will fo course move the whole switch, so that means spring and dome will also move, however it will be just few milimeters, so it won't affect actual switch, it will still work.
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Offline phinix

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Re: Realforce with MX sliders - how hard is to mod it to use MX caps?
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 20 March 2018, 20:30:44 »
Alright guys, I'm starting the mod tomorrow. :thumb:

I hope everything goes well. I will keep you posted and will have nice photos of this modding project, so stay tuned!  :D
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Offline phinix

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Alright guys, I have done it! :)

Few hours job to be honest, most time it took me was to file the holes in hands - I used a bit of dremel, but had to finish it in hand with small files.
I'm actually typing on it right now, funny feeling, having standard bottom row Realforce:)

Let me prepare all photos and I will update this post in an hour.
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Offline phinix

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OK guys, so here it is.

As I mentioned before, I had to move a bit each of the bottom row housings (you can find drawing above in one of my posts).

I had to butcher one of my Novatouch keyboards to get its sliders and some housings, but this is the price if you don't want to use JTK or other third party sliders.

I started from preparing the patient:)

192186-0

192188-1

192190-2

I wanted to cover rest of the plate. Being a modder, you do that all the time:)
I used sharpie to highlight how deep I need to go - around 2mm on each housing hole.

192192-3

As we all know, bottom left CTRL needs some modding too - being 90 degree turned on Realforce, there is a full corner there - I have to file it off and use Novatouch housing for it as that original one in that corner is weird.

192194-4

..and some action - using small file I started to get make all those holes bigger...
Later on I took out my trusty dremel and used it to get rid of most of the unwanted metal... small file was to finish it off.

192196-5


It took about an hour or so to do all holes. I did all main ones plus those two spacebar stabilisers holes, as mx space bar has different positions on those, compared to topre (as you all know).

Those housings that were near case "mounting stems" had to be modded a bit too - I used round file to make their sides more opened.

192198-6

..and this why - you can see how nicely it goes next to the case mounting stem.

192200-7


Now trying out with actual sliders and caps...

192202-8

...that space bar needs to go a bit more on the side - going back under the file:)

192204-9


Left side LED needs to go... bye bye!

192206-10

Topre Realforce stabiliser housing needs to be modded a bit too - drilled holes for stabs on sides. I only did one of them, then decided that as I already butchered NT, why not to take its housings!

192208-11


Here it is! Realforce keyboard with standard bottom row !!! ;D

Looks like first in the world with full standard row.

Everything is possible guys - grab your dremel and file and do it yourself!  :D


192210-12


« Last Edit: Thu, 22 March 2018, 18:36:13 by phinix »
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Offline a_ak57

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Huh, so are the domes not as offset from the PCB contacts as I would have thought, or is there really that much leeway in terms of coverage for the switches to activate?  Seems almost too easy to turn Topre into a standard layout then, though I guess there's still the issue of Novatouch-style spacebar stabilizers not being a thing yet.

Offline phinix

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Huh, so are the domes not as offset from the PCB contacts as I would have thought, or is there really that much leeway in terms of coverage for the switches to activate?  Seems almost too easy to turn Topre into a standard layout then, though I guess there's still the issue of Novatouch-style spacebar stabilizers not being a thing yet.

Housings were moved just by 2mm - so springs still make a touchdown, all works fine.
Space bar stabilisers are not a problem anymore - I used ones from Novatouch, but you can now buy them here - both, left and right, also housings. All there.
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Offline a_ak57

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Oh right, I completely forgot about those 6-to-6.25u stabilizers/housings.  Guess standard-layout Topre really is accessible, other than for the HHKB anyway.

Offline hammerbrotha

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 08 April 2018, 16:21:29 »
I just had to comment on how amazing this is. this might be the first in the world.

Offline phinix

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 09 April 2018, 18:21:08 »
I just had to comment on how amazing this is. this might be the first in the world.

Thank you, I'm happy you like it:)

Yeah, I think it might be first in the world, there were other mods similar to this, but not with full bottom row.

I got myself Carbon SA set of caps on it, looking awesome:)
Also got Nuclear Data - greens should look good on white Realforce.. will dress it up soon and show :thumb:
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Offline spiceBar

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 11 April 2018, 17:13:27 »
@phinix:

Very nice work!

I have modded my FC660C with Cherry MX sliders from an Noppo 108EC-PRO.

In order to avoid messing with the stabilizers as you did, I have done only the digits and letters keys, and the Alt keys. It's good enough for me, because I have customized keycaps which are almost the same profile as the original ones. This would not have worked with SA profile keycaps.

I think it's easy to see you did an amazing job.

Offline phinix

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 15 April 2018, 07:25:27 »
@phinix:

Very nice work!

I have modded my FC660C with Cherry MX sliders from an Noppo 108EC-PRO.

In order to avoid messing with the stabilizers as you did, I have done only the digits and letters keys, and the Alt keys. It's good enough for me, because I have customized keycaps which are almost the same profile as the original ones. This would not have worked with SA profile keycaps.

I think it's easy to see you did an amazing job.

Thank you, I'm glad you like it :)
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Offline ramnes

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 21 April 2018, 11:14:50 »
Very nice mod, congrats! I would have been worried by the PCB not registering but if that works, that's awesome.
23h18 - photekq: hhkb with silenced realforce sliders and lubricated well is
23h18 - photekq: the best switch i've used

Offline phinix

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 22 April 2018, 16:51:28 »
Very nice mod, congrats! I would have been worried by the PCB not registering but if that works, that's awesome.

Thanks:)

Yep, pcb still registering, all works fine, no issues. Few mm didn't make any difference.

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Offline thelaughingman

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 12 January 2019, 22:52:20 »
FYI Rixtox has released the 6u spacebar adapter  :p

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/axiom-1

Offline phinix

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 19 October 2019, 11:46:30 »
FYI Rixtox has released the 6u spacebar adapter  :p

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/axiom-1
Which is crap, as it breaks easily and leaves stems inside caps plus to use it you would still need a proper 6.25u wire, it will still be very scratchy and occasionally stucks... :p
« Last Edit: Sun, 20 October 2019, 07:35:14 by phinix »
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SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

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Offline phinix

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 22 December 2019, 07:58:07 »
Keeping this thread as my modding one, just wanted to show my latest purchase and wee project.

Bought a RF R2, then modded with Novatouch sliders. Used KRytox 205g0 for stabs' wiring and Tribosys 3203 for modifiers' sliders and housings.
Then put on GMK Space Cadet.



« Last Edit: Sun, 22 December 2019, 08:01:44 by phinix »
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SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

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Offline phinix

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 08 April 2020, 05:57:38 »
I've recently added another amazing mod to my R2 keyboard, so wanted to show here as well.
I used Silent-x rings in the past but they were always midiocre, very flimsy to put on, sliding off randomly, making some sliders stuck etc

Now, I used new stuff - Deskeys DES #3 rings - the best silencing rings for topre you can get!
So easy to put them on, no sliding stucking. And the feel... oooh man... Perfection!

Very higly recommend!

239584-0

239586-1

239588-2
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SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

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Offline Riverman

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 08 April 2020, 11:14:37 »
It's nice to know there's another option besides the Silence-X rings.  I wonder why they say they're not compatible with RGB housings, though?  I had Silence-X rings on a Realforce RGB, and they worked fine.

Offline snurrebassen

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 02 February 2021, 02:19:59 »
Keeping this thread as my modding one, just wanted to show my latest purchase and wee project.

Bought a RF R2, then modded with Novatouch sliders. Used KRytox 205g0 for stabs' wiring and Tribosys 3203 for modifiers' sliders and housings.
Then put on GMK Space Cadet.

Show Image


Show Image


Hey Phinix!!
I'm so happy I came across this thread. Seeing that you were able to put GMK Space Cadet on a RF R2 makes me really happy! This might be a stupid question, but did you have to do any modding for the spacebar sliders? I've only got the kbdfans sliders right now, and they don't seem to fit the spacebar topre-"sockets". I've been wondering how people are able to use regular GMK sets on RF boards!

Offline phinix

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 02 February 2021, 03:17:51 »
Keeping this thread as my modding one, just wanted to show my latest purchase and wee project.

Bought a RF R2, then modded with Novatouch sliders. Used KRytox 205g0 for stabs' wiring and Tribosys 3203 for modifiers' sliders and housings.
Then put on GMK Space Cadet.

Show Image


Show Image


Hey Phinix!!
I'm so happy I came across this thread. Seeing that you were able to put GMK Space Cadet on a RF R2 makes me really happy! This might be a stupid question, but did you have to do any modding for the spacebar sliders? I've only got the kbdfans sliders right now, and they don't seem to fit the spacebar topre-"sockets". I've been wondering how people are able to use regular GMK sets on RF boards!

Well, I did mod R1 before to use MX caps - that one needed more work on it to use it (you can see my mod at the top of this thread - a bit of filling on the plate to get it done).
R2 is a lot more simple - I just used Novatouch sliders - problem with Topre is that spacebar stabs need to be swapped with the Novatouch housings - plus the wire.
So wo I did is I used all from Novatouch. Housings are fine, for all switches apart from spacebar stabs. R2's standard bottom row helps to simply swap them.
I'm actually selling one modded R2 in our Classified. Practicaly new.
« Last Edit: Tue, 02 February 2021, 03:38:46 by phinix »
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Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

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Offline snurrebassen

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 02 February 2021, 03:57:32 »

Well, I did mod R1 before to use MX caps - that one needed more work on it to use it (you can see my mod at the top of this thread - a bit of filling on the plate to get it done).
R2 is a lot more simple - I just used Novatouch sliders - problem with Topre is that spacebar stabs need to be swapped with the Novatouch housings - plus the wire.
So wo I did is I used all from Novatouch. Housings are fine, for all switches apart from spacebar stabs. R2's standard bottom row helps to simply swap them.
I'm actually selling one modded R2 in our Classified. Practicaly new.

Ah I see. So the Novatouch sliders from a full CM board is needed to successfully mod the R2.
I unfortunately just invested in a Norbaforce Mk2 (He just restocked a few ones) so I can't possibly justify buying your R2  ;) I'll make do with what I have, until I can sell something or see if i can find a broken Novatouch or something to harvest parts from! (Or maybe you still have yours for sale a little while longer)

Thank you for the answer though, super helpful!

Offline phinix

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 02 February 2021, 04:15:44 »

Well, I did mod R1 before to use MX caps - that one needed more work on it to use it (you can see my mod at the top of this thread - a bit of filling on the plate to get it done).
R2 is a lot more simple - I just used Novatouch sliders - problem with Topre is that spacebar stabs need to be swapped with the Novatouch housings - plus the wire.
So wo I did is I used all from Novatouch. Housings are fine, for all switches apart from spacebar stabs. R2's standard bottom row helps to simply swap them.
I'm actually selling one modded R2 in our Classified. Practicaly new.

Ah I see. So the Novatouch sliders from a full CM board is needed to successfully mod the R2.
I unfortunately just invested in a Norbaforce Mk2 (He just restocked a few ones) so I can't possibly justify buying your R2  ;) I'll make do with what I have, until I can sell something or see if i can find a broken Novatouch or something to harvest parts from! (Or maybe you still have yours for sale a little while longer)

Thank you for the answer though, super helpful!

Yeah, basically to fully mod it and have best solution is to grab a Novatouch and butcher it.
There are 3rd party 3d printed solutinos for those spacebar stabilisers but they are not ideal, I had them and they broke after few uses.

That is why so many people do mod Topre boards but keep original spacebars as is, topre slider, stabs and actual cap.
So far best solution is to get NT and use its sliders and spacebar bits. Topre original housings for all caps apart from spacebar are fine.

What I also do is I always add rings (latest Deskeys are amazing), it helps if you want to have silent version. Without is also fine, but if you want a nice lovely thock, add some slim rings.
9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL

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Offline snurrebassen

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Re: Phinix Realforce Mod - Topre to MX - with full standard bottom row!
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 02 February 2021, 04:28:29 »

Yeah, basically to fully mod it and have best solution is to grab a Novatouch and butcher it.
There are 3rd party 3d printed solutinos for those spacebar stabilisers but they are not ideal, I had them and they broke after few uses.

That is why so many people do mod Topre boards but keep original spacebars as is, topre slider, stabs and actual cap.
So far best solution is to get NT and use its sliders and spacebar bits. Topre original housings for all caps apart from spacebar are fine.

What I also do is I always add rings (latest Deskeys are amazing), it helps if you want to have silent version. Without is also fine, but if you want a nice lovely thock, add some slim rings.

The PFU limited edition I got was already silenced with decent rings. I'm extremely happy with the feel and sound of it. That's why I want to invest in a Norbaforce to just top it off. It would just be a plus to be able to throw on some of my classic looking CRP sets on it. I'll either look into getting a light colored spacebar or look into getting a Novatouch later on. (Keeping my eye on this IC for custom Topre keycaps: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105710.0) Maybe selling some of my keyboards not to have too big of a loss. This build is turning out extremely expensive lmao