Want to use Leading Edge DC-2014: what do I need?

[Special K]

I have a Leading Edge DC-2014 keyboard that I want to try using on my PC if possible just to see how I like the blue alps switches, as the layout of this board is less than ideal.  That said, what sort of adapter do I need to buy to make it work?  I've read a lot about the Soarer, but then I saw this one for sale on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-XT-AT-to-USB-Soarers-Converter-Remapping-Macros-NKRO-Support-IBM-Model-F-/281476427201?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41894d6dc1

and it specifically says in the item description: "Please note that the following keyboards are KNOWN NOT TO WORK with because of slightly different protocols than standard XT and AT: Leading Edge DC-2014, Lynk terminal, Amiga Keyboards"

side note: is the picture for the listing above correct?  I thought the Soarer was a converter with active electronics.  The above listing just shows a pass through cable.

On the other hand, I did a search of the boards and found a few posts of people saying they did get their DC-2014 to work with a soarer.

I found a video on youtube of someone typing on a DC-2014 who said they used this converter:

https://www.hagstromelectronics.com/products/ke_xtusb.html

Has anyone used that one before?

Would either the Soarer (if it works) or the Hagstrom allow me to remap keys (since the DC-2014 has such a weird layout)?  If not, can I remap keys in software?

[jacobolus]

I thought it was an XT keyboard.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The eBay auction is 100% legitimate:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64670.0

I've never seen them before — really impressive.

[Special K]

The eBay auction is 100% legitimate:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64670.0

I've never seen them before — really impressive.

That's the one I linked to in my OP.  Did you see this in the description:

Please note that the following keyboards are KNOWN NOT TO WORK with because of slightly different protocols than standard XT and AT: Leading Edge DC-2014, Lynk terminal, Amiga Keyboards

Does that adapter actually work with the DC 2014?

[jacobolus]

Seems Soarer’s converter should work: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.msg745533#msg745533

v1.10 is now available in the OP!

• Added support for 'almost' PC/XT protocol keyboards, e.g. Leading Edge DC-2014.

[...]

[fohat.digs]

I have tried this several times with no success.

It is my understanding that a 5th wire needs to be connected to the Teensy, but I never did it and can't really remember what it was about.

But this has been discussed a couple of times. Somebody succeeded, maybe Akimbo?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Quoting's broken again ...

You wrote "I thought the Soarer was a converter with active electronics.  The above listing just shows a pass through cable."

I was simply affirming the legitimacy of the auction listing.

[jevvix]

I have tried this several times with no success.

It is my understanding that a 5th wire needs to be connected to the Teensy, but I never did it and can't really remember what it was about.

But this has been discussed a couple of times. Somebody succeeded, maybe Akimbo?

No idea if that specific converter works but I have successfully converted my DC-2014s with Soarers firmware. Although I use it on a Pro Micro (thanks to the gent who recompiled the .hex as Pro Micros don't have PB7 pinned-out), Soarers documentation says that PB7 is the 'Keyboard Reset' on a Teensy required for the pseudo-XT language of the DC-2014. Wire that to the 5th/generally unused pin on the din-5 connector and you should be set.

Although you'll want to confirm this with Soarers Docs (in his tools zip) as it's been a while.

[fohat.digs]

Soarers documentation says that PB7 is the 'Keyboard Reset' on a Teensy required for the pseudo-XT language of the DC-2014. Wire that to the 5th/generally unused pin on the din-5 connector and you should be set.

Thanks! 

[hasu]

It seems Orihalcon uses Soarer's v1.03 firmware with that converter listed on ebay.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62168.0;nowap

I think the latest firmware work for the keyboard with Teensy if you don't mind soldering job. Or ask Orihalcon(ebay seller) to update his converter to the latest one.

[Special K]

It seems Orihalcon uses Soarer's v1.03 firmware with that converter listed on ebay.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62168.0;nowap

I think the latest firmware work for the keyboard with Teensy if you don't mind soldering job. Or ask Orihalcon(ebay seller) to update his converter to the latest one.

I asked Orihalcon and this was the reply:

The reason these won't work with a Leading Edge DC2014 is that there's an extra pin that is required for that one that is not standard on AT.  I have 2 DC2014's so I've personally confirmed that they don't work without that extra pin wired up.

They do use v1.13 of the firmware though.

It looks like my only options are to wire up my own Soarer with the extra connection or buy the Hagstom converter, which is more expensive and less versatile (but is plug and play).

Another thing I thought of was to just desolder the switches out of the DC2014 and put them in a transplant AT101W.

[orihalcon]

Yeah, I would make one, but the custom Arduinos that I use only have the normally required pins to keep them small.  A pro micro will work.  A pro micro mounted inside of the DC2014 would be the least amount of work, but transplanting the switches into another board is also a good option.  DC2014's are viewed by many as being best for switch donors since the caps aren't that great and the cases tend to yellow quite easily. 

I made a typo earlier when messaging Special K back, meant to say that the adapters I sell have 1.12 which is the latest version.

I only use 1.03 for my LYNK keyboards as Hasu pointed out a while ago that the older firmware has a little more flexibility with the ability to detect XT parameters. The DC2014 is only supported by the new ones and does require that "Reset" pin as documented above.

Still not sure a Hagstrom converter will work with a DC2014, but I've never had one though.  My reasoning is that Soarer's seems to be more advanced in every way, so I'd be surprised if the Hagstrom can do it.  Soarer's didn't even support it until the later firmware versions.  With a Soarer that you wire up yourself, you will be certain to have a working board at the end, and for less cost.

If you really don't want to wire yours up, I can do the wiring at a similar price and test with one of my DC2014's so that you'll know it is plug and play.  Just haven't opened up my DC2014's since I got them and don't exactly remember if the original wires are soldered to the board or if it's a removable plug which would affect whether or not I could put the correct connector on it to be plug and play. Kind of defeats the purpose if you end up having to still solder it in yourself once you get it, but I could at least color code it for you and send you a picture of where the wires need to go.

[fohat.digs]

Another thing I though of was to just desolder the switches out of the DC2014 and put them in a transplant AT101W.

This is a good plan and I have done it successfully, but if you can find a Northgate Omnikey 101 that is the ideal chassis.

[Special K]

Another thing I though of was to just desolder the switches out of the DC2014 and put them in a transplant AT101W.

This is a good plan and I have done it successfully, but if you can find a Northgate Omnikey 101 that is the ideal chassis.

Why is the Northgate Omnikey 101 the ideal chassis?  Is it easier to desolder/resolder switches from than the AT101W?

I originally suggested the AT101W because:

1. they are much easier to come by than the 101's
2. build quality is pretty good, especially for the price (although I hear the 101's are built like a tank)
3. I don't particularly care for the black alps in the AT101W, but I would probably like the white alps of the 101 and would therefore be more reluctant to remove them

[Special K]

Still not sure a Hagstrom converter will work with a DC2014, but I've never had one though.  My reasoning is that Soarer's seems to be more advanced in every way, so I'd be surprised if the Hagstrom can do it.  Soarer's didn't even support it until the later firmware versions.  With a Soarer that you wire up yourself, you will be certain to have a working board at the end, and for less cost.

My only reason for thinking it would work was this video:

If you read the comments, the author says:

I use a Hagstrom KE-XTUSB to convert it from XT to USB.

That said, the Soarer would definitely be a more versatile option.

[Special K]

DC2014's are viewed by many as being best for switch donors since the caps aren't that great and the cases tend to yellow quite easily. 

Yeah, no kidding.  On mine, the whole case and most of the keycaps are some shade of yellow.  The switches seem to feel fine though.

[fohat.digs]

the whole case and most of the keycaps are some shade of yellow.

The Dell AT101(W) is a great keyboard and very well built, provided that you have an extra inch or 2 of desk area for the dead space at the top of the case. I have at least 3 of them and 2 are transplant recipients, but if you get one where the original soldering tech got overly zealous with bending over the legs of the switches, you will be cursing him/her. (If feel is more important than looks, use a partial set of Apple PBT caps from an old-style Extended keyboard.)

In my opinion, the Northgate is the only thing that can hold a candle to a Model F, with a heavy and beautiful metal bottom case pan and subtle and elegant styling. And the true-ANSI layout with standard Enter and Backspace is the clincher for me, I just don't like non-standard layouts any more.

I have had good luck Retro-briting Northgate cases, but dismal results on yellowed keys from both Northgate and Leading Edge.

[Special K]

Another thing I though of is that the DC-2014 seems to have a more unique sound compared to other keyboards I've tried, although I realize that's extremely subjective and I'm not sure a unique sound makes up for the weird layout. 

I guess the overall sound of a keyboard is a function of the switches, the keycaps, and the case construction.

[Special K]

If you really don't want to wire yours up, I can do the wiring at a similar price and test with one of my DC2014's so that you'll know it is plug and play.  Just haven't opened up my DC2014's since I got them and don't exactly remember if the original wires are soldered to the board or if it's a removable plug which would affect whether or not I could put the correct connector on it to be plug and play. Kind of defeats the purpose if you end up having to still solder it in yourself once you get it, but I could at least color code it for you and send you a picture of where the wires need to go.

I just opened up my DC-2014 and checked.  The XT cable just plugs into the PCB via a rectangular plug. 

If you made a custom one, are you saying it would only work on a DC-2014, or could I use it with any XT keyboard including the DC-2014?

Also what is the difference between the pro micro and the teensy?  Doesn't the teensy have the necessary connections to make the DC-2014 work, it's just a matter of connecting them?

[pixelpusher]

Necroing this thread to see if anyone has more insight.  I have one of these on the way that is in very nice condition.  Is there a definite guide somewhere on how to get it working over Ps2 or USB?

[chyros]

Necroing this thread to see if anyone has more insight.  I have one of these on the way that is in very nice condition.  Is there a definite guide somewhere on how to get it working over Ps2 or USB?

IIRC you need a Soarer's with a reset pin.

[hasu]

Necroing this thread to see if anyone has more insight.  I have one of these on the way that is in very nice condition.  Is there a definite guide somewhere on how to get it working over Ps2 or USB?

This would be an alternative option to Soarer's converter. I belive my XT converter should work with the keyboard. Wiring and pin configuration are completely compatible to Soarer's. It would be really appreciated if you can test it and post your result in the thread.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94649.0

[pixelpusher]

Necroing this thread to see if anyone has more insight.  I have one of these on the way that is in very nice condition.  Is there a definite guide somewhere on how to get it working over Ps2 or USB?

This would be an alternative option to Soarer's converter. I belive my XT converter should work with the keyboard. Wiring and pin configuration are completely compatible to Soarer's. It would be really appreciated if you can test it and post your result in the thread.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94649.0

Hasu, sorry if I misunderstand.  Do you sell an XT converter?  Or are you suggesting to use your firmware with another converter, or just build with a teensy  and flash it with your firmware?

[fohat.digs]

Or are you suggesting to use your firmware with another converter, or just build with a teensy  and flash it with your firmware?

It worked fine for me when I built the standard Teensy configuration, as long as I also connected that 5th "Rest" pin to its proper spot on the Teensy.

[pixelpusher]

Thanks for the replies, guys.  I think I understand now.  Unfortunately, the sale fell apart for a second time.  One of these days, maybe.  Probably for the best, since it was a lot of money. 

[Delirious]

Hi, I used the cheap pro micro to convert my Leading Edge. I have both working LE-2014, LE-3014, and LE-2214. I followed these guides and got those working:

https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19035&hilit=internal
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8448

the only downfall is I basically have to buy a pro-micro for each board, not as convenient as having a hotswappable plug.

[chyros]

I'd love to get a DC-2014 someday. There's a HUGE amount of history behind them! But as pointed out, they tend to go for quite a lot nowadays.

[fohat.digs]

have to buy a pro-micro for each board, not as convenient as having a hotswappable plug.

You can build one of these:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58941.msg1348717#msg1348717

@ Chyros - what is the history behind Leading Edge? I thought that they were a common-level IBM PC clone-maker in the mid-late 1980s.

[pixelpusher]

I'd love to get a DC-2014 someday. There's a HUGE amount of history behind them! But as pointed out, they tend to go for quite a lot nowadays.

It was a real rollercoaster for me.  I found one in the last 2 min on ebay that was new in box.  It was a lot of money, but I bit the bullet and bid.  I actually won it.  But then things went south.  Seller said he made a mistake and needed to refund me and bill again b/c he had the wrong paypal info (his friend's) on the account.  I said "okay, as long as the invoice is through ebay."  It wasn't, of course.  Just a direct PayPal invoice.  I wasn't willing to do it.  It may have been legit, but I wasn't about to have to deal with PayPal to get my money back.  I told him that the only way I would pay is if he relisted it for best offer and just close out when my offer for the original price came across.  2 days later he agreed.  I bid.... nothing.  2 days later he accepted a higher offer.  Ass.

One of these days, boys.

[Delirious]

have to buy a pro-micro for each board, not as convenient as having a hotswappable plug.

You can build one of these:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58941.msg1348717#msg1348717

@ Chyros - what is the history behind Leading Edge? I thought that they were a common-level IBM PC clone-maker in the mid-late 1980s.

yup I was thinking of doing that, but buying 4 pro-micro's didnt even amount to $26 at that time so I might as well, a lot quicker.

[chyros]

have to buy a pro-micro for each board, not as convenient as having a hotswappable plug.

You can build one of these:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58941.msg1348717#msg1348717

@ Chyros - what is the history behind Leading Edge? I thought that they were a common-level IBM PC clone-maker in the mid-late 1980s.

There's quite a bit. I'll touch on it in another video soon. And who knows, maybe one day I'll get to tell the whole story .

[Nintenga]

Hi, I used the cheap pro micro to convert my Leading Edge. I have both working LE-2014, LE-3014, and LE-2214. I followed these guides and got those working:

https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19035&hilit=internal
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8448

the only downfall is I basically have to buy a pro-micro for each board, not as convenient as having a hotswappable plug.

Show Image

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How did you manage to map the keyboard reset to pin 10 on pro micro?