Author Topic: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)  (Read 20784 times)

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Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #100 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 23:14:53 »
Regarding the point 6, fixating of warped plyboard to maintain focus distance:


I opted for using a nail bed over other options.
The nails (wood screws to be exact) are superglued to a piece of plywood.
The plywood has some standoff feet about 10 mm high.


Once i tried to work with plywood I quickly found out it is prone to warp, about one axis.


What i do to counteract this i put clamps on:


I've drilled holes in between the nails and use u shaped wire clamps to tighten the work piece


For this to work, the nailbed had to be screwed to the main plywood board it sits on


I can maintain a focal distance within 1/2 a mm this way.


Offline Faceman76

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #101 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 23:21:06 »
Sealing all exposed surfaces will help prevent warping.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

TKC 1800, Crystal Box Navy, Sprit 100g

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #102 on: Fri, 21 May 2021, 22:48:11 »
Sealing all exposed surfaces will help prevent warping.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Can confirm, water based PU coat applied already :D


Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #103 on: Sun, 23 May 2021, 15:05:57 »
The Sealing was done with water based PU transparent lacquer.


Next i took one Teensy 2.0 and solderd it on the PCB - after thoroughly checking there is no shorts VCC to GND and which way i oriented the Teensy versus the PCB  :))


Here picture
269033-0

Since the solder points go exactly under one switch i had to carefully grind them flush to the PCB.

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #104 on: Sat, 29 May 2021, 15:13:27 »
status report:
Trouble ahead.


Long story:
- built the firmware after some struggling, and flashed the Teensy that is soldered to the PCB.
- tweezers test over the bare PCB went satisfactory: No smoke, sparks or fatal failures (yet)
- aside the running asterisk upon connecting, the keyboard seemed to work decently
- column "6" and "7" have been found to be swapped - easily fixed in firmware by positioning the switch names in the matrix layout (tkm.h file)
- finally today ran the keyboard tester and no matter how i tried i only could confirm all keys but NUMPAD_ASTERISK
- until i finally had the keyboard unplug and re-plugged while the keytest was on - the NP_* was pressed down all the time - never to be released!


Subsequent examination showed i have an error:
269382-0


due to all those false positives i omitted this major one (highlighted arrow)
i think i still can break those two apart with a dremel
right in between

how i found it?
i went and found the NP_ASTERISK's rown and column pins on the teensy
the firmware so far:

* cest73.7z (245.79 kB - downloaded 49 times.)
those happen to be the pins D1 and B3

then i measured them with my DVM for shorts (none) and finally for resistance:
- i got 0.7 M Ohm (Mega Ohm) that's about 700 kOhm - WTF!??

I next examined the traces functionally - and found that my row and column traces collide in above spot on the keyboard - but it was no manufacturer error - it was cleanly fabricated by JLCPCB.
Took an empty PCB for reference (no Teensy soldered on it yet) and still about 3/4 of an Mega Ohm where none should be...

Then i ran KiCAD and here we are:

Manual Refubrishing:
as always, stay tuned...



« Last Edit: Sat, 29 May 2021, 15:21:14 by cest73 »

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #105 on: Mon, 31 May 2021, 15:12:19 »
The erroneous short was ground off.


So far it seems to be working with the tweezers test.



Due picture of the day:

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #106 on: Thu, 03 June 2021, 13:58:15 »
Status update:

  • Got the board short sorted out,
  • Got the firmware built and uploaded,
  • Got the MX stabs affixed,
  • Got the switches and keycaps (blank XDA PBT) mounted
  • Got the plated mounted to the PCB and havd the Matias switches soldered to it (sorry no photos)
    (had 3 switches bent the copper colored thinner pin, saw it on time and re-inserted)
  • All switches tested and working
  • :eek: the "Matias Silent Click" switches have an audible pin (and i am not HiFi with my hearing since long time now...) and are somewhat scratchy due to the way how the leaf spring produces the tactile event.
Mandatory update pictures:
269750-0
(The sandwitch is preview only to feel the shape of the finished case)
269752-1
(the Aluminum rim is a 2 x 20 mm profile to preview how precise i need to shape it to be any decent in appearance (yes i'm in trouble, i know))


stay tuned...

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #107 on: Fri, 04 June 2021, 13:14:51 »
Last time in TKM:


  • Preview
  • Preview
Welcome to the next episode!


And even more preview:
...


But first some intermission


269795-0
First a little How Its Made: :D


  • I took a square as a reference and clamped it to the work bench in two points so it remains put
  • Put the stripe of 2 x 20 mm Aluminum so it is aligned (consistency of bending or bust)
  • Took a tool i made of 12 mm threaded rod (unknown quality) and 10 mm hot rolled square bar as the bending radius former
  • Used the tool to clamp the Al stripe tight to the bench
  • First bend was marked at arbitrary 200 mm with a sharpie and the mark was set flush to the edge
  • The tool was positioned so the threads center is flush to the edge too
  • The square pipe piece was used to carefully form the radius against the thread until it is as perfectly upright as possible (skill over method style)
  • The resulting first bend was measured and rules for marking and measuring derived from it
  • each subsequent bend was measured improved/reworked and adjusted to be as perfect as possible
  • the goal is to have the seam toward the monitor and soldered into invisible (hope dies the last)
269797-1
Here another view of the bending rig and the final bending result after much measuring, tinkering and adjusting


It came pretty close to 1/4 of millimetre (10 thou?) and maybe better - well within soldering distance


Thanks for watching the intermission  :cool:


269799-2
Nav block closeup (not finished, merely preview)


269801-3
Num pad closeup (it is pretty to me :-*  )


269803-4
I need to solder it yet and make attachment points next


As always, Stay tuned...




Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #108 on: Sat, 12 June 2021, 13:43:21 »

It is online


I'm typing this on the very damn thing  :p :cool: :p
270475-0

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #109 on: Sat, 12 June 2021, 14:05:06 »
https://github.com/fire-h0und/TKM-2021
The firmware source

and the hex file (attached)

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #110 on: Sun, 13 June 2021, 02:21:57 »
Test run impressions so far:
  • Matias is so satisfying to type on, compared to Kailh BOX it is more scratchy and has a noticeable ping (might lube it some day IDK).
  • It is so silent, even totally unlubed. The thock is absent or really suppressed and faint.
  • The XDA blanks are a keeper, need to figure out side printing as i'm a lousy blind typist  :rolleyes: , thus far i only attempted engraving the (2 mm tiny letters)
  • The glueing: i managed to drop the case and it rang loud (got a scuff i filed away right on) - it is a success (spare no acetone or elbow glue on preparation)
  • I managed to glue it in reverse (was expected) but such is life (it sucks)
  • I've cut out access to the mini USB port as i still manage to have decent cables laying around...
  • Layout works, more space for the mouse indeed, have to print the caps and run spreadsheet yet.
The github repo us slowly filling up, need to solve few obstacles with file size to upload the blender files too


Stay tuned for the Cherry BAE build and more pictures...




Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #111 on: Sun, 13 June 2021, 08:30:24 »
More faithful rendition of what is planned to come...


270505-0

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #112 on: Wed, 16 June 2021, 11:37:05 »
Many know the pain of designing an file and sending it to be machined just to find out a detail missed or was left out of sight...


So time came the Al plates need to be cut for next keyboard variants and here is what i did:


OFC i exported the PCB from KiCAD first and that was to a SVG file - i exported the pad layer(s) so i can see where the screw holes will be (those are pads in KiCAD for some reason)
I picked to export the cut layer too.
Then i went to keeb.io and generated the switch mount holes from my KLE layout (that's a mere grid of 19.05 x 19.05 switches of this or that sort)


I took extra caution i rotate the stabilizers the same way the PCB has them (inverted + stabilizer)


I opted for "complicated" MX cutout so i can oipen the switches in place later, took "huge" stab cutouts as i aim for an 1.5 mm thick plate and double-checked all again. I picked an radius of 0.75 mm just to be on the safe side as i saw the MX fits effortlessly in the 0.5 hole, further 0.25 can't be too much of an struggle to lean should it prove too much. (a sway of a file so to say)


The export format chosen was svg.


Once the ridiculously long named files where all on my local storage i went and fired up Inkscape to fuse the elements together.


I first imported the KiCAD file and pruned everything but the screw holes. Missing true LED holes the pads had to do - i picked nodes that would point me to the center of the LED and used them as bounding box centers i will snap my actual 5.0 mm dia circles to.


So now i had a plate outline with screw and LED holes - i combined the shapes into a single object and saved it just in case.  ;)


Next i imported the switch holes on top of the file carefully aligned it to conform to the measurements i took off the PCB (edge distances compared on adjacent sides of the PCB).


This is delicate work - hurry enough and you'll hurry twice...


Once i combined the paths (actually substracted the holes from the plate this time) i had the final SVG object in Inkscape (saved to the storage OFC)


For a good measure i exported the DXF next.


But now i need a preflight check before i commit to the (expensive) material and CNC machining:


Enter LED laser cutter:
270693-0
I took a piece of (cheap?) plastic foam (used for flooring insulation) and let a test run with following parameters:
speed: 2000 mm/min
power: 75 % PWM
The result showed a kerf of 0.5 mm is needed and further reduction of power is possible (45 % wouldn't cut thru at that speed)
270695-1
VOILA!
the second run produced an foamy switch plate fitting nicely on the PCB with MX stabs!


So the DXF file is ready for the CNC mill, once i cut the Aluminum hopefully we get the plates cut out soon (ish)  :D


Stay tuned...

Offline blondie

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #113 on: Wed, 16 June 2021, 13:43:50 »
How did you make those Blender renders? I've been playing with FreeCAD. I see that I can export to a format for Blender, but I've no idea how to get nice wood textures and such. Do you just know Blender, or can you recommend any documentation which goes over the process from CAD to nice model with textures?

I like the one with rounded front and back. Quite different to most keyboards I see posted.

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #114 on: Wed, 16 June 2021, 23:18:41 »
I'm glad You asked.
Might post answers across more messages to give some more quickly/sooner


I am a great fan of Bender since 2.49 onward. As such i spend some time fiddling/exploring plugins on each newer version i install, and blender comes with several. One has to enable some of them first.


One of those is the recent material library - i found quite interesting materials there. Three of them are wood and i use two of them in my render.
The metallic paint is used for aluminum, i played with the color a bit
Further i played with the fake glass materials to get that transparent policarbonate look on the Matuas switches...
For plastic i used the simple materials tu have quicker render speeds.
I am investigating how to post that source on github, its 55 MB file, so stay tuned for that.


Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #115 on: Sun, 20 June 2021, 04:52:26 »
The attached image is supposed to help enable using the plugin:

  • in Edit>Preferences>Plugins tab select Material filter
  • Enable the VX Material Library plugin
  • Select an object and navigate to its Material tab
  • Seek and unfold the VX Material Library tab
  • Pick some material and assign it to the object
  • Render it to see how it looks
  • Perhaps switch to the Shading UI and play some with the Shader Editor flow graphs


Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #116 on: Sun, 20 June 2021, 05:00:07 »
[snip]
I like the one with rounded front and back. Quite different to most keyboards I see posted.
Thank You  :D  affirmative feedback means a lot.


I had a tough choice to make: CNC'd cases are prohibitively expensive, but i need a case for this big of a keyboard none the less.


Only option was make it my self:
Luckily I had some mileage in making/modding PC cases and overall DIY...


Therefrom it was merely pick materials and find/devise ways to process it - The excellent Ron Covell YT channel helped some among other things.


Stay tuned to the next case to be.


Offline blondie

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #117 on: Mon, 28 June 2021, 21:03:10 »
Thanks for the info. I started playing with Blender. Its user interface is much easier than I remember from many years ago. Plus their tutorials are very good. I found another material library, BlenderKit. It requires a login, but all but a few materials are free. That library you mention, I saw it, but I thought it was entirely for managing my own materials. I didn't realize it comes with some.

Anyway, I had thought about how to build that rounded keyboard case. I couldn't see how it could be done to be an oblong "tube" shape. But, if you start with a sheet of aluminum, cut out space for the top and even some space on what would end up being the bottom, you could fold it around a dowel of the appropriate size or similar, abutting the ends of the sheet underneath. Still not easy without a CNC, but doable I think.

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #118 on: Wed, 30 June 2021, 08:57:44 »
Thanks for the info. I started playing with Blender. Its user interface is much easier than I remember from many years ago. Plus their tutorials are very good. I found another material library, BlenderKit. It requires a login, but all but a few materials are free. That library you mention, I saw it, but I thought it was entirely for managing my own materials. I didn't realize it comes with some.
Quite few node graphs there to be used as starting point IMHO

Quote
Anyway, I had thought about how to build that rounded keyboard case. I couldn't see how it could be done to be an oblong "tube" shape. But, if you start with a sheet of aluminum, cut out space for the top and even some space on what would end up being the bottom, you could fold it around a dowel of the appropriate size or similar, abutting the ends of the sheet underneath. Still not easy without a CNC, but doable I think.
Contrary, i imagine: annealing the sheet first, bending one radius, then the other one too, taming the result not to spring out of shape but retain the clean bend (reflection is key here).


So far i found that gluing the seam will work just nice (perhaps add an really thin sheet stripe (some 20 mm wide) inside of the glued seam to reinforce it)


Once past that point, lay out the cutouts on the now perfectly bent surface and carefully craft them gone - be it CNC, universal mill (raises hand) or Dremel Click-Spring style (hogging it with a Dremel until close to the line, filing it by hand afterward)


Once the shape is right, make the side caps out of some nice wood (laminated paper floor?  :) ) ) and add supports throughout the structure.


I imagine the toughest most part will be the cabling - either thru wall with some soft protector or an fancy expensive rugged industrial plug/receptacle pair on a braided cable...

Almost forgot, the OEM profile ALPS build is going along nicely
271581-0

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #119 on: Wed, 14 July 2021, 15:49:25 »
I am for some reason certain some of you follow this only for the gore shots of my work bench.


Since that is exactly the part of the audience i'd hate to disappoint, here one more photo  :thumb:
272342-0


The dis order is somewhat lesser, since I have to account for those more faint at heart too  :D

The Aluminium switch plate progress is painstakingly slow at this time (due to the Venusian heat wave :confused: )

Stay tuned but don't hold the breath :cool:
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 July 2021, 15:45:01 by cest73 »

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #120 on: Thu, 22 July 2021, 05:35:44 »
Tai Hao's shipment reached my atelier:
272800-0
The issue:
What key cap to pick for the Mod key?
The four on the upper deck are to choose from, if you care to help me decide.
TIA

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #121 on: Thu, 22 July 2021, 06:10:22 »
I've missed a lot of updates, great to see you got this working :thumb:  Quiet Clicks too - the switch I should hate but don't, yet still haven't owned.

Not sure what your Mod key does but I'd probably go for the line cap - Escape would be an especially bad choice as many people would expect it to be in the corner (assuming anyone but you will ever use the board...)  Was the extra F8 a bonus or are you missing another random cap?

120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #122 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 04:19:12 »
Hey, glad you made it, welcome back  :thumb:

Yes the Esc, while perfect match color wise would indeed add to confusion or disappoint otherwise  :(

The F8 was picked as it can be read a "faith" (F-eight) for how the Matias are under represented in the community in general

I just found out that some prominent designers have fallen behind the up to date offering regarding ALPS stem - Ali Express has quite to offer from KPRepublis and elsewhere in that regard, especially the DX64 PCB and accessories seem to be popular (not compared to MX but compared to ALPS stem hemisphere)

So, i was advised to take the dash (numpad minus sign) more than once (i asked in more places) but i decided to still resort to F8 due to :minus" being adjacent to it's regular place and "Home" being quite out of whack there.

Sadly the beautiful Tom Cat set is lacking on 1.75U Shift too, but i got not only desperate but also clever by placing the blue Caps Lock key there and putting the 3800 stepped key in the 3rd row

Tai Hao does host an better suited set for this procedure now, but i already committed to the Tom Cat (i happen to like color wise very much)

Next I might make that leftovers an actual keyboard with Tai Hao's controversial APC switches just to spite some naysayers  :p
272835-0
272837-1
(say hi to plANkSi)
I have yet to unreiddle the next case for this part of the TKM build series...

Stay tuned.

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #123 on: Tue, 03 August 2021, 06:28:14 »
headsup:

1. unriddled the next case (soon!)

2. Found local sublimation print capable shop (stay tuned!) will attempt side printing the XDAs!

P.S.

Feel free to point me to good DIY die-sub workflows, preferably single cap, side print and silicone on the hot side of the  press

TIA

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Mirrored 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #124 on: Sat, 21 August 2021, 10:43:40 »
The album:
https://imgur.com/gallery/9fegK1P
The TKM got endorsed by QMK:
https://config.qmk.fm/#/cest73/tkm/LAYOUT_all
And i started the dye-sub process on the cheap: few clamps, a repurposed really cheap hair straightening press (does 160 C in the air) and a phone in timer mode:

5 minutes pressed @ 160 C gives pretty decent prints

The Sublimation print was done in a local shop - he said we use the same stuff that goes for the coffee cups (ya know those kiddo photos on coffe cups stores...)

One A4 sheet is around $1 and i'm thru 4 and not done yet  :p

So far i figured dye subbing the following way:

1. Due to alignment being paramount for dye sub to look the least decent, I made the print with cut marks (0.25 mm thick + signs about 2 mm wide and tall)
2. Once meticulously cut to exact size (give or take 0.05 mm back and forth "eyeball wise")
3. The lables are, even more meticulously, affixed to the free keys with kapstan tape - it is of little use being anal about cutting if you just slap them loose on there right?
4. Once the labels are placed to the key, the keys are in pairs brought to the preheated running heat press rig, padded with silicone matts, and laid out on it
5. The timer is let to run and the clamps are carefully placed over each packet (i can do up to 4 packs at one timer pass YMMV)
6. Once the timer runs out i carefully remove the clamps in an orderly fashion
7. Only once all the clamps are off i remove the keys in an orderly fashion too - as they are hot now (fresh popcorn hot for instance)
8. As they cool i remove the capstan tape and discard the printed lables aside
274607-0
Voila dye subbed keycaps

From 2 to 5 minutes looks good, i lean towards 5 so the sublimation is deep and i am clear in the forseable future of any blemishes or imperfections, but the less time the sharper the edges will be.

I will measure the clamping force and post as i come arount to it

This process is taylored to single off jobs: the less keys the marrier - i will be on it for several days it seems.

I know the images are lacking expect more to come (feel free to post feedback tho, i won't bite (at least i hope i won't  :confused: ))

Also, bent two stems on the XDAs due to hurry :-[, thats due to not taking care of the temparatures of the clam touching the keycap end - always reverse them to the cold clamp touches the switch stem!

As i ran the inital tests, i found out the press alone, once up to temerature will deform the cap no problem if pressed directly to the hard surface - this is to be avoided!

Again, keep the back of the caps as cold as pssible - we are dealing with temperatures that make the PBT unstable and likely to deform!

Other than that its going great, kudos to logo4poop from ai03 discord for the font help :thumb:
274605-1

As always, stay tuned for more ...

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Mirrored 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #125 on: Tue, 24 August 2021, 15:26:51 »
274793-0
The aforementioned clamps are of about 5000 gram clamping force (5 kilos or 50 N).

274795-1
The sublimation press is about finished (got feet 5 cm high) and about 1/3rd thru the TKM's 105 keys so far

274797-2
The measured clamp is clearly among the weakest, one has melted when i took measures with the DVM (the yellow pads heat up to about 160 C in free air). The yellow seems to be some non stick coating (poisonous most likely?)
The press gets quite hot in the process so after like 3-4 batches the clamps lower finger does not cool down enough for me to feel comfortable - i make breaks to cool the clamps off.

274799-3
WIP
274801-4
more WIP
The "5" being in a much deeper "dish" had issues with the transfer - something i will watch for when doing the "F" anf "J" keys - most likely to add a small piece of silicone beneath the cushions on the press when doing those keys...

274803-5
Whaat!? You're still here? that's it for this time, go read other threads now too  :D

But come back soon!

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #126 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 15:02:35 »
Work in progress:
275074-0

I kind of like how it is turning out (need to re-print the sheet for the remaining glyphses due to IRL vs "plan" collision  :rolleyes:

Also working on something next

Stay tuned...

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #127 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 16:28:48 »
In the old days you could buy dye sub caps that were way fuzzier than your ghetto setup - I'm very impressed.
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #128 on: Sat, 28 August 2021, 11:57:39 »
In the old days you could buy dye sub caps that were way fuzzier than your ghetto setup - I'm very impressed.

First and foremost a polite LOL in the place of "thank you" - something that seems to be a thing of the past nowdays too :D

Re: "ghetto"
Indeed a ghetto setup is only as good as the result stands up to scrutiny against a professional product.

275301-0

My ghetto goals where (and are):
1. Easy reproduction by anyone
2. Cheap BOM for both the machine/setup and the expendables
3. Result that stands up to professional work (or else what's the point?)
4. as DIY-able as practical, so here i post the print file i brought to the dye sub shop (the store where you print your coffee cups on)
275299-1
The svg file for Inkscape can be obtained on demand (just DM me)

Next is the further case variants and the metal switchplates for MX and possibly ALPS clones down the line...

Stay tuned as usual  :cool:
« Last Edit: Thu, 02 September 2021, 02:06:20 by cest73 »

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #129 on: Mon, 30 August 2021, 06:14:10 »
updates:
275523-0
The rig in action...

275525-1
A view to a kill  :p

Offline cest73

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Re: Ten Key Left 2021 (full size 104 key custom keyboard)
« Reply #130 on: Thu, 02 September 2021, 02:08:12 »
The thread with the in depth and gory details of the dye sub:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=114420.0;topicseen